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tappenzee
10-11-2006, 07:56 PM
Ok, this might be completely over-ambitious, and may fall flat, but I thought that if we could gather our collective knowledge here, we could build the entire family tree of punk rock, with it's various branches and all that.

I kinda want to answer the questions of where did punk rock begin, and where did it take it's various twists and turns?

If we agree on the roots of the tree, lets say it goes like this:

MC5
The Stooges
(others?)

leading to:

Ramones
Sex Pistols
(others?)

and take it from there.

Which punk rock bands were directly influenced by these guys in the 70's?

Then, in turn, who did they go on to directly influence?

I realize a lot of it will be guess work and can lead to argument, but that's the fun part--figuring out who influenced who, where these bands came from, because NO band comes directly out of a vacuum.

Feel free to include the hardcore influence, the ska influence, the reggae influence, the metal influence, etc.

I'm interested if we put our minds to it where we could take this...

Jon
10-11-2006, 07:57 PM
Chuck Berry -> Stones -> Dolls -> Heartbreakers -> Hanoi Rocks, Social Distortion

UK Subs, Hanoi, Black Flag -> Guns N' Roses

Flagjacket
10-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Well I'd put myself near the trunk, and branching off of me would be Ronald Reagan and Lagwagon.

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 07:59 PM
I like your spirit... would you say Chuck Berry would be the roots of all rock 'n roll period?

Chuck Berry and alla the pioneers could be the roots, and the trunk of the tree could be the NY Dolls/MC5/Stooges, etc...

Jon
10-11-2006, 08:00 PM
Chuck Berry is Rock'n'roll.


Well, Chuck, Keef and Johnny anyway =/

MC5 maybe in ideological attitude, but for me the Stooges and the Dolls pretty much singlehandedly invented punk.

edit: oh, the Dead Boys go on the same bit as the Heartbreakers. So do the Pistols and the Ramones

No other bands really necessary.

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 08:04 PM
Chuck Berry
\/
Rolling Stones
\/
Stooges, NY Dolls (maybe MC5)
\/
Dead Boys, Heartbreakers, Sex Pistols, Ramones
\/
Hanoi, UK Subs, Black Flag, Social Distortion

Jon
10-11-2006, 08:07 PM
No, as I said

Chuck Berry
/\
Stones
/\
Stooges, Dolls
/\
Heartbreakers, Pistols, Dead Boys, Ramones
/\
Subs, Misfits etc
/\
Hanoi, Social Distortion | Black Flag, X, Fear, Germs etc
/\
Guns N' Roses

White Rabbit
10-11-2006, 08:08 PM
The Clash started political punk and the fusion of reggae/punk/ska/rock

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 08:09 PM
I dunno if I'd include Gn'R there

Good call on the Misfits in there

Also, the tricky thing here is how The Ramones influenced bands like the Queers and Screeching Weasel more directly, skipping the others... so they'd get their own category

Jon
10-11-2006, 08:13 PM
Seeing as half the band were punks and they had a whole album of punk covers, no I wouldn't include them either.

Ghostfire3
10-11-2006, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I'm not quite sure where you pulled Guns N' Roses out of but you're wrong.

Flagjacket
10-11-2006, 08:54 PM
The Sex Pistols > Rancid > Black Flag > South Park > The Used

Anxious
10-11-2006, 09:23 PM
Sun Ra, John Coltrane, and Free Jazz in general influences the MC5 and the Stooges, if you wanna go back that far.

asdf
10-11-2006, 09:26 PM
Sun Ra, John Coltrane, and Free Jazz in general influences the MC5 and the Stooges, if you wanna go back that far.

I was just about to say something about that.

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 09:27 PM
Seeing as half the band were punks and they had a whole album of punk covers, no I wouldn't include them either.

well they didn't really make original punk music, so nah I wouldn't call them punk rock

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 09:28 PM
Sun Ra, John Coltrane, and Free Jazz in general influences the MC5 and the Stooges, if you wanna go back that far.

true true also the Doors according to an oral history of punk rock

World Burns To Death
10-11-2006, 09:30 PM
dumb thread

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 09:31 PM
dumb thread

thanks for your input

Excursions
10-11-2006, 09:32 PM
Albert Ayler > Captain Beefheart + The Deviants > The Stooges > Wire > NWA > Kanye West > Franz Ferdinand > The Killers.

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 09:36 PM
Albert Ayler > Captain Beefheart + The Deviants > The Stooges > Wire > NWA > Kanye West > Franz Ferdinand > The Killers.

^^^on that good purple crack

Anxious
10-11-2006, 09:38 PM
Albert Ayler > Captain Beefheart + The Deviants > The Stooges > Wire > NWA > Kanye West > Franz Ferdinand > The Killers.

Naw d00d

Ghostfire3
10-11-2006, 09:49 PM
Me --> The Stooges --> The MC5 --> New York Dolls --> Johnny Thunders & The Heartbreakers --> The Ramones --> Sex Pistols --> The Clash

Flagjacket
10-11-2006, 10:26 PM
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP THIS THREAD SUCKS!

Nobody wants to hear about how the Sex Pistols and Stooges begat the Misfits a million times.

asdf
10-11-2006, 10:27 PM
Captain Beefheart --> The Residents

And that's all that's really important.

tappenzee
10-11-2006, 10:44 PM
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP THIS THREAD SUCKS!

Nobody wants to hear about how the Sex Pistols and Stooges begat the Misfits a million times.

you mad, doggie?

smokersdieyounger
10-12-2006, 05:29 AM
Chuck Berry, Little Richard > Buddy Holly >

Patti Smith + Velvet Underground

Beat Poetry >


Patti Smith, Velvet, Dolls, Stooges > Ramones, Dictators, Suicide

Ramones (tour america) > Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, Misfits, Black Flag, descendents

Ramones (album reaches UK, aswell as roundhouse performance) > Clash, Pistols, Damned, The Adverts

Don Letts plays reggae tunes at the Roxy Club > Clash, PiL, Ruts

The Damned tour America (Fast punk rock ensues, galvanised after the ramones tour) > Bad Brains, Bags, Weirdos, Germs > Bad Religion, NOFX, Reagan Youth, Minor Threat

Husker Du, Black Flag and Minutemen > Grunge movement

Popularity of the grunge movement makes way for punk revivalists in the its wake > Green Day, Rancid, Offspring, NOFX

Its hard not to simplify it that much, but i think thats pretty much alot of the important events

Jon
10-12-2006, 07:51 AM
Because Black Flag and the Misfits formed ages before the Damned and the Pistols

Flagjacket
10-12-2006, 03:12 PM
Punk rock > hardcore > pop punk

World Burns To Death
10-12-2006, 03:26 PM
Every Other Thread > this thread

AIRIC
10-12-2006, 06:10 PM
Chuck Berry, Little Richard > Buddy Holly >

Patti Smith + Velvet Underground

Beat Poetry >


Patti Smith, Velvet, Dolls, Stooges > Ramones, Dictators, Suicide

Ramones (tour america) > Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, Misfits, Black Flag, descendents

Ramones (album reaches UK, aswell as roundhouse performance) > Clash, Pistols, Damned, The Adverts

Don Letts plays reggae tunes at the Roxy Club > Clash, PiL, Ruts

The Damned tour America (Fast punk rock ensues, galvanised after the ramones tour) > Bad Brains, Bags, Weirdos, Germs > Bad Religion, NOFX, Reagan Youth, Minor Threat

Husker Du, Black Flag and Minutemen > Grunge movement

Popularity of the grunge movement makes way for punk revivalists in the its wake > Green Day, Rancid, Offspring, NOFX

Its hard not to simplify it that much, but i think thats pretty much alot of the important events


I really hope this isn't in chronological order.

sketchyjoe
10-13-2006, 07:58 AM
It's like that scene in School of Rock.

tappenzee
10-13-2006, 11:16 AM
Every Other Thread > this thread

yet you felt compelled to read and reply to it...

smokersdieyounger
10-13-2006, 11:33 AM
I really hope this isn't in chronological order.

Not really, alot happened at the same time. But its really difficult to order it in a direct line, unless your going to do each path seperately.

Jon
10-13-2006, 12:26 PM
I'll simplify it.

Big Bang -> Romans -> Johnny Thunders -> Punk

Flagjacket
10-13-2006, 03:42 PM
God's Creation of Earth > Dinosaurs > dino ded > Feudal hubub > Powdered Wigs > Hippies > Green Day

Jessizzle
10-13-2006, 03:44 PM
All music comes from african tribal beats.

xFEAR-AND-LOATHINGx
10-13-2006, 04:47 PM
the Stooges and the Dolls pretty much singlehandedly invented punk

amen.

Flagjacket
10-13-2006, 04:50 PM
Dear Stooges and Dolls,

Thanks a lot.



Not.

Jon
10-13-2006, 05:04 PM
Dear Flagjacket,

I have never seen you make a good post.

Please get off the internet

Sincerely,
Jon

Flagjacket
10-13-2006, 05:07 PM
Dear Jonathan,

I've never even seen you here before and all you talk about is the New York Dolls and Hanoi Rocks.

Why are you even friends with Eran.

My posts all rule but YOURS suck.

:p

Jessizzle
10-13-2006, 05:10 PM
i love kevins small asian penis

Flagjacket
10-13-2006, 05:11 PM
It's more than just small, the shaft is actually inverted when my penis is not erect.

Jon
10-13-2006, 05:53 PM
Dear Jonathan,

I've never even seen you here before and all you talk about is the New York Dolls and Hanoi Rocks.

Why are you even friends with Eran.

My posts all rule but YOURS suck.

:p
Dear Flagjacket,

You should learn yourself some good music, ie Dolls and Hanoi. For they are good music, and judging by your lack of appreciation for them, you would not know good music if it kicked your inverted **** with steel capped Docs.

I am merely aquaintances with Eran, he goes to my college but I've never met him because I'm lazy and disorganised.

rep++

TakeWarning
10-14-2006, 04:07 AM
Hanoi ****ing sucks.

Yeah.

Flagjacket
10-14-2006, 11:17 AM
Dear Flagjacket,

You should learn yourself some good music, ie Dolls and Hanoi. For they are good music, and judging by your lack of appreciation for them, you would not know good music if it kicked your inverted **** with steel capped Docs.

I am merely aquaintances with Eran, he goes to my college but I've never met him because I'm lazy and disorganised.

rep++
I'm sorry that I don't listen to the exact same music as you, and when I do, I also apoligize for not liking the name music as you. ALso, your steel toed Docs sound SO interesting. Aren't those a skinhead accessory? I am a white power skinhead and would like to commend you on your reference tot he movement!

Sieg Heil!

Henrik
10-14-2006, 03:04 PM
Why do you even post in this thread if you hate it so much?

Thread Starter: You should edit your results in the first post.

World Burns To Death
10-14-2006, 03:29 PM
heil hitler!

Aus Rotten
10-14-2006, 03:39 PM
Hanoi Rocks - terrible.
New York Dolls - terrible.
The Clash - terrible.
Misfits - terrible.

Summation: punk - terrible.

Volume8
10-14-2006, 04:32 PM
Brittish Punk started as a surge of political and sociological reactionairys started using music as a means to voice their opinions, Punk bands took influence from the rock scene at the time and mixed it with a more aggresive structure and stance. After news of this movement hit the mainstream through magazines and articles Record producers started to latch onto this movement producing a more refined, cleaner and media friendly version of its original counterpart, Effectively splitting the scene into two. The underground and mainstream bands.

http://aa.1asphost.com/TheVir4/tree.JPG

Having said that, its actually quite boring.

Jon
10-15-2006, 10:07 AM
Hanoi Rocks - terrible.
New York Dolls - terrible.
The Clash - terrible.
Misfits - terrible.

Summation: punk - terrible.
ohhhh i so want to deck you right now.

are you joking =/

actually i agree about the clash but you really have no taste at all whatsoever.

how anyone can dislike the dolls is beyond me

Aus Rotten
10-15-2006, 03:57 PM
I repeat, and am very serious:
New York Dolls - terrible.
Hanoi Rocks - terrible.
The Clash - terrible.
The Misfits - god f'ucking awful.

Apparently, if I don't dig the staple (horrible) punk bands, I have no taste. Okay Mr. "The Exploited."

Jon
10-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Aus Rotten really aren't up to much =/

Flagjacket
10-15-2006, 06:16 PM
actually i agree about the clash but you really have no taste at all whatsoever.

how anyone can dislike the dolls is beyond me

Oh sheeeeeeeeit.

Hey Aus Rotten don't worry about it, everyone else dislikes Jon, he thinks that if you don't like the Dolls you must be African tribal and also, he likes the Exploited.

AIRIC
10-15-2006, 06:20 PM
Jon's cool he likes hockey and he's English.

Flagjacket
10-15-2006, 06:21 PM
Well everytime people dislike someone Eric just HAS to be friendly.

AIRIC
10-15-2006, 06:22 PM
Because you guys dislike a cool guy and I can't allow that.

Flagjacket
10-15-2006, 06:24 PM
Don't worry about it Kav everyone dislikes Eric, he only listens to Jay Z and Magrudergrind and lives in New York.

Speaking of New York, how about that series Eric?

AIRIC
10-15-2006, 06:27 PM
I don't even listen to that much Jay Z OR Magrudergrind.

And I hope the Mets pull through.

Flagjacket
10-15-2006, 06:28 PM
12,000 posts Air!

It's 2-1 games right? I wanted Dodgers and Tigers, but now I want Mets and Tigers. Either way WE MADE IT TO THE WORLD SERIES!

Aus Rotten
10-15-2006, 08:38 PM
Aus Rotten really aren't up to much =/

**** Nazi Sympathy/The System Works For Them/...And Now Back To Our Programming/Anti-Imperialist.

Some of the most solid releases i've ever heard. Tight lyrics, great music, overall positive message? :thumb: in my book. The Rotten Agenda was kind of weak, but, not everything can be perfect. Aus Rotten is most definately up. :thumb:

Jon
10-15-2006, 08:43 PM
:lol:

<3 skrunnch

Flagjacket
10-15-2006, 08:55 PM
ATTN: Please refrain from using the :thumb: guy ever.

Also, it is debateable whether or not any band is up. So everyone here is just a big baby.

Volume8
10-16-2006, 06:21 PM
**** Nazi Sympathy/The System Works For Them/...And Now Back To Our Programming/Anti-Imperialist.

Some of the most solid releases i've ever heard. Tight lyrics, great music, overall positive message? :thumb: in my book. The Rotten Agenda was kind of weak, but, not everything can be perfect. Aus Rotten is most definately up. :thumb:

I have to agree with the NOFX fanboy, Also add Second rape to that there list of yours.

Aus Rotten
10-17-2006, 12:02 AM
ATTN: Please refrain from using the :thumb: guy ever.

Also, it is debateable whether or not any band is up. So everyone here is just a big baby.

Ah, we're back to boycotting the thumb!

Jon
10-17-2006, 06:25 AM
:thumb: