Pedophilia isn't limited solely to gay men? WHAT?! You're pulling my leg!

[Cain]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/10/nyregion/10teacher.html?ref=education

Yeah. This story's pretty f-ing sick.

BAYONNE, N.J. — Many in this gray, insular city are at a loss to explain why Diane Cherchio West was allowed to continue working in the public school system for two decades after she was caught in 1980 kissing and groping a 13-year-old student at an eighth-grade dance.

Why, after her promotion to guidance counselor at Bayonne High School, no one alerted social services, school officials or the police when she became pregnant by an 11th grader she supervised, Steven West, and married him upon his graduation in 1985.

Or why, when that baby, Steven Jr., grew to be a teenager, no one balked as his 15-year-old friend moved in with Ms. West, who then seduced the friend with Scooby-Doo boxer shorts and evening jaunts to sports bars and used her school authority to rearrange his classes around their secret trysts.

It was not until 2001, when relatives of the boy, Christopher Castlegrande, filed a complaint with the police of statutory rape against Ms. West, that she left her $74,000-a-year job and lost her unfettered access to Bayonne High School’s students.

After Ms. West was arrested, school officials insisted for more than a year that the allegation was the only accusation of misconduct in a sterling 24-year career. They allowed her to take an early retirement package that fattened her pension, and gave her a farewell party with cake and ice cream. When Ms. West pleaded guilty in 2005 to sexual assault charges, glowing references from co-workers, supervisors and friends helped persuade a judge to sentence her only to probation. She was also spared the ordeal of having to register as a sex offender.

Now, with Mr. Castlegrande suing the school district for failing to protect students from a woman with a sexual appetite for under-age boys, this city of 62,000 has been forced to examine how little was done to stop her earlier. Even as the news media were saturated with coverage of teachers like Pamela Smart and Mary Kay Letourneau who slept with their students, Bayonne averted its eyes for years.

Some blame small-town politics; Ms. West’s father is a prominent businessman here. Others see a double standard in which people are reluctant to view teenage boys as victims. Mayor Joseph Doria attributes the silence to shock, shame and misplaced civic pride from people afraid the case would tarnish the reputation of Bayonne schools.

“No one bothered to do the math,” said Mr. Doria, who, like many people in town, knew that Ms. West had married a former student, but did not seem to realize that the relationship had started — and that their child had been born — when her husband was still in school. “And the people who suspected didn’t want to make it a big issue.”

The legal age of consent in New Jersey is 16 — except if the adult is acting in loco parentis, like a teacher or guardian, in which case it is 18.

Bayonne, on a peninsula jutting between Upper New York Bay and Newark Bay, has an assortment of Irish, Polish, Italian, Egyptian and Hispanic enclaves crammed next to one another yet separated by language, culture and economic status. Ms. West, now 52, was raised in one of the city’s more comfortable Italian sections, the daughter of John Cherchio, a regular on who’s who lists here, who ran a successful construction and waste-carting business.

Ms. West declined repeated requests to be interviewed for this article, and her lawyer did not respond to several telephone messages left at his office. Nor did her father, or his lawyers.

But court records summarizing her presentencing psychiatric evaluation say Ms. West described her upbringing as happy and uneventful until age 14, when she became pregnant by an abusive boyfriend and gave the child up for adoption.

By 23, Diane Cherchio had graduated from college and was a special education teacher at Dr. Walter F. Robinson elementary school. Her intelligence and dedication won the admiration of supervisors and colleagues, who told investigators decades later that they had been stunned to see her pawing at a 13-year-old student named Jorge at an eighth-grade dance.

[Cain]

More.
The school principal at the time, Daniel Doyle, swore in a statement to prosecutors last year that he spoke to a half-dozen teachers and became convinced that she and the student were sexually involved. “Diane has a thing for young boys,” Mr. Doyle recalled being told, according to court records.

Mr. Doyle said in the statement that he wrote to the superintendent asking that Ms. Cherchio be fired, but was startled to learn, upon returning to school in the fall, that she had instead become a guidance counselor at the high school.

“I accepted it as a political maneuver,” said Mr. Doyle, now retired, who grew up near the Cherchio family. He added that he suspected her father’s business and political connections allowed her to escape punishment.

But the superintendent who promoted Ms. Cherchio, James Murphy, said in a recent interview that he does not know her father, and was never pressured by city officials. Mr. Murphy insisted that he was never told about the accusations, adding, “That’s a very serious matter, and I would have treated it that way if I had been informed of it.”

Neither school officials nor Mr. Doyle can locate any written report about the episode.

At Bayonne High School, the young counselor’s enthusiasm when helping with class schedules and college applications — along with her fashion sense and fluency in pop culture — made her a hit with students, according to interviews with several faculty members. When she became pregnant in 1984, former colleagues recalled, she said that her baby’s father was a musician in the hit musical “Beatlemania.”

Within months, however, another story began to circulate. According to records in the Hudson County prosecutor’s office, Mary Cerreta, an elementary school teacher, had heard from her niece that Steve West, then a junior at the high school, was an expectant father; Mr. Doyle, the elementary school principal, heard from his stepson that the mother-to-be was his — and Steve’s — guidance counselor.

Asked about the relationship years later by a court-appointed psychiatrist, Ms. West said that when they met, Steve had been recovering from a suicide attempt and she had been desperately lonely. “I looked at it like we were saving each other,” she said, according to the summary in the court file.

In his statement to prosecutors, Mr. Doyle said he was shaken by the news that his former employee had again become sexually involved with a student. But he said he did not report it to school administrators or legal authorities because his previous complaint had accomplished nothing. “She was somebody else’s problem now,” he is quoted as saying in the statement.

Diane Cherchio was 31 when she married Steve West after his graduation. The couple became fixtures on West 26th Street, said James Rentas, who lived across the street. In the years that followed, they were often seen walking the family’s terrier or hurrying their three children to soccer and baseball practice.

But the unusual thing neighbors noticed was the large bay windows that the Wests had installed on the side of the house overlooking the Bayonne High School athletic field. On many afternoons, they said, Ms. West watched intently as the football, baseball or soccer teams practiced.

By the spring of 2000, one star on that baseball diamond was Christopher Castlegrande, a freshman so burly and quick with a bat that he became the varsity’s starting catcher.

Though he excelled athletically, Chris had a learning disability and a troubled home life.

Ms. West, who had been divorced since 1996, was close to Chris’s father, Joseph Castlegrande, their sons having played Babe Ruth baseball together. When Mr. Castlegrande complained about his debts and his strained relationship with his son, according to his statements to the authorities, Ms. West invited Chris to live with her and her three children.

Now 21 and considering a career in law enforcement, the younger Mr. Castlegrande declined to be interviewed for this article, along with his lawyer, Robert Bianchi, his father and the aunt and uncle who reported the affair to the police. Mr. Castlegrande also sued Ms. West — who settled for $400,000 last year, according to court records — and then the Bayonne district and its top administrators, in a civil case now pending in federal court in Newark.

According to Ms. West’s and Chris’s statements to the authorities at the time of her arrest, several weeks after the teenager moved in, she sat next to him on the couch while watching television, put her hand on his leg and kissed him. Within a week, the statements say, they were having sex.

At school, Chris told investigators, Ms. West rearranged his classes so they could meet at home during lunch. She wrote him excuses for absences and hall passes, and gave him her electronic security card to enter and leave the school building. “Stick with me, I can get you into a good school and get you a baseball scholarship,” she told him, according to Chris’s statement to the police.

At home, Ms. West fluctuated between surrogate mother and secret lover. Chris told the authorities that she had opened a bank account for him, had taken him on vacations to Utah with her children, had set his curfew and bedtime, and had helped arrange an operation on his foot. And, several times a week, he said in the statement, she sneaked him into her bedroom to spend the night.

Eventually, according to the police statements from Chris and Ms. West, Steven Jr. grew troubled by the close relationship, so Chris moved in with an aunt and uncle.

The aunt, Tammy Laszkow, told prosecutors that she was suspicious that the relationship between Chris and Ms. West had turned sexual and began secretly recording Chris’s telephone calls from her home. In December 2001, Mrs. Laszkow taped Ms. West reading Chris a newspaper article about a boy who had shot his father during a hunting trip, and began to fear for Joseph Castlegrande’s life, so she called the police.

In talking about the relationships with a court-appointed psychiatrist last year, Ms. West said that when she took up with Steve and Chris, she thought it was acceptable because she had had a child at 14. Later, she said, she realized teenage boys can suffer emotional damage if they become sexually involved with an adult, especially an authority figure like a teacher.

It is unclear what lessons, if any, Bayonne school administrators took from the episodes because they, too, have declined to discuss the matter, citing the pending lawsuit.

Like many who live here, Enrique Santana, 21, who played baseball with Mr. Castlegrande and had Ms. West as a counselor, said he was shocked to learn about the relationship — but not about the tepid response.

Asked whether he was confident that the town would be more vigilant in protecting children like his own daughter in the future, he shrugged. “Even if you knew, really knew it was happening at the time, who could you go to?” Mr. Santana said in an interview. “This is Bayonne, a small town.”

[PerpetualBurn]

A gay man must've tricked her into it.

[Knifeboy]

She must be a gay man trapped in a womans body

[JohnXDoe]

This is quite the shocker :eek:

In all seriousness, though. This whole pedo save the children crap is driving me crazy to no end. WTF has happened to our country that this fear seems so pervasive these days?

According to the medical definition of pedophilia it is the attraction of adults to pre-pubescent or peripubescent (the beginning of puberty) children. Not 15 , 16, or 17 year old young people. Or even 14. Although I would say by my own way of thinking the line can be safely drawn there.

Someone who is physically/sexually attracted to a teen is not a pedophile. Thats just a fact. It may be inappropiate, it may go against what is accepted, it may go against the law. But it may also be more natural then we are willing to allow ourselves to admit. To act on such feelings may be wrong headed and damaging emotionally to both parties because of various different reasons. But sex itself most likely isn't one of them.

A Seinfeld episode comes to mind when Jerry and George are pitching a script to the head of NBC. While at the executives home his busty 15 year old daughter comes home and he excuses himself for a minute. While he is gone his daughter talks to the guys and at one point leans over to tend to her book bag, her shirt falling open, revealing her boobs. George nudges Jerry, they both take a long, knowing look, and her father walks in to see them ogling her, blowing the whole deal. Later that evening:

Elaine: How could you do that! She's 15!
Jerry: It doesn't matter! There was cleavage in the area (lol). No man alive could resist that!
George: No man alive!(lol)

Sometimes its as simple as that. And perhaps the same goes for women on the other end. Child molesters/rapist are not pedophiles, either. They are violent criminals who intend to do harm, perverts, sociopaths. Call them what you will. But not pedophiles. Which is not to say pedophilia is not a serious disorder which needs to be treated. And its not to say pedophiles are harmless and don't do harm, intentional or not. Its just to say I wonder if often times we are barking up the wrong tree here, and creating a stir and a shi.tstorm while we are at it.

This country is so uptight sexually its smothering sometimes. Politicians will use this "issue" to push their moral agendas through, to demonize those who have normal sexual feelings, and to maintain a "family values" oriented society. Fine. But as I've gotten older I find myself still physically attracted to some younger people. Not in a personal or intimate way. But in the way that if I see a hot 15 year old in the mall, I look. I don't even think about age. I wouldn't make a move on that. Emotionally and mentally its not in my make-up. But if some my age (mid-twenties) said they would hit it, if the girl is sexually attracive/active, I could hardly blame them.

I may feel differently after I have my own kids. Hopefully however I feel won't keep me from raising a healthy and sexually knowledgable person who doesn't fear the predetor around every corner we seem to be obsessed with these days, or feel shame because they have sexaul feelings that are not accepted norms in our apparently still puritan and fearful society. And hopefully we can learn to call a spade a spade, a duck a duck, a pedo a pedo, and people with normal sexual feelings and emotions, well, normal. Perhaps some don't have control of themselves or their feelimgs. Perhaps they indulge in inadvisable or even "illegal" sexual behavior. But to suggest we have a problem with rampant pedophilia or sexual predetors in our society is just a bit off the mark. And maybe if we could just get over ourselves and our archaic beliefs a little we could focus on the real issues that make us so fearful and do something real about what problems we do have concerning sex and children.

[Dinosawesome]

^Exactly, you could have two girls, a 16 year old and a 22 year old whose bodies have matured to the same level. Going by appearance alone you couldn't tell one from the other but the little number connected to them decides what they can and cannot do in society.

[Africa]

Having secks with kids is uber taboo (understandibly) and we are uber afraid of uber taboo things. But yeh the political implications of the issue probably far outweigh its taboo nature.

[Mr. Ron]

Doesn't really change anyhting. Pedos are still sub-human.

[Danger Bird]

A Seinfeld episode comes to mind when Jerry and George are pitching a script to the head of NBC. While at the executives home his busty 15 year old daughter comes home and he excuses himself for a minute. While he is gone his daughter talks to the guys and at one point leans over to tend to her book bag, her shirt falling open, revealing her boobs. George nudges Jerry, they both take a long, knowing look, and her father walks in to see them ogling her, blowing the whole deal. Later that evening:

Elaine: How could you do that! She's 15!
Jerry: It doesn't matter! There was cleavage in the area (lol). No man alive could resist that!
George: No man alive!(lol)


Is there anything Seinfeld can't teach us?

Hey, did you see the one where Kramer turns the hall in front of his apartment into a front porch?

^Exactly, you could have two girls, a 16 year old and a 22 year old whose bodies have matured to the same level. Going by appearance alone you couldn't tell one from the other but the little number connected to them decides what they can and cannot do in society.

DUDE!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/BPMead007/octopus.jpg

I'm flattered.

[Dinosawesome]

DUDE!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/BPMead007/octopus.jpg

I'm flattered.
So it was YOU!

I've been looking for whoever came up with that picture for ages!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/Nath015/89403.jpg
^I also did my own rendition^

[Hababi]

:eek: Now Cain can't be bothered to create 3000 word posts, he just copies 3000 word articles for his uber long entries :p :D

But yeah, pedophilia isn't limited to gays, it's just more prevelant in homosexual men.

[AA-12]

Doesn't really change anyhting. Pedos are still sub-human.

You know, one time we are going to disagree on something. I don't know what, but it'll happen eventually. :p

[Mr. Ron]

You know, one time we are going to disagree on something. I don't know what, but it'll happen eventually. :p

/looks at your mysapce.


I hated SAW 1&2.

:p

[AA-12]

/looks at your mysapce.


I hated SAW 1&2.

:p

Evil >:-[ :lol:

[sweboy]

Doesn't really change anyhting. Pedos are still sub-human.

Wait, by "pedos" do you mean "pedophiles"? Are you sure you don't mean "child molesters", or do you honestly think that pedophiles are sub-human?

[spitfirejunky]

Pedophile ≠child molester.

[Hababi]

Wait, by "pedos" do you mean "pedophiles"? Are you sure you don't mean "child molesters", or do you honestly think that pedophiles are sub-human?

Don't you recall that thread about the child rapist murderer being involuntarily tattooed? I think that pretty well established where we all stand on the classification of child molestors and murderers ;)

[spitfirejunky]

He's making a distinction between pedophile and child molester. Do you think that pedophiles should be stripped of their rights even if they don't act on their tendencies?

[AA-12]

Yes.

[black guy]

For what reason?

[Jude]

For what reason?

Don't ask him for reasons.

And uh Wotan, you ever seen a hot 17 year old? Guess you should be stripped of your rights.

[sensitiveorgan00]

Don't ask him for reasons.

And uh Wotan, you ever seen a hot 17 year old? Guess you should be stripped of your rights.

Since when was Wotan older than 17?

[sweboy]

Yes.

Then I think you're an idiot/fundie/fascist. Pick your favorite.

[Jimothy the 33rd]

you ever seen a hot 17 year old? Guess you should be stripped of your rights.

I'd go for a hot 17yr old.
Hell.
I'd go for a hot 16yr old.




but I'm 16 :P


I do think however that paedophiles shouldn't be stripped of their rights if they don't act on their actions.
But unless they're looking at pictures of children that aren't tasteful then I don't see how anyone could know of their intentions, without acting on them, which I think they should have some rights taken away for looking at pictures of children that aren't tasteful.
So it's a bit of a predicament because you don't know their intentions until they act on them, but you want to prevent those actions being acted on.

Yeah?
think I've confused myself now :rolleyes:

Edit: Swear filter for porn :lol:

[Jude]

Since when was Wotan older than 17?

If he isn't, then he automatically should lose his rights when he turns 18, because he isn't going to suddenly stop thinking hot 17 year old chicks are hot.

[Scuba_Steve]

Wotan got debated into the ground in this fred.




But just incase you guys didnt get the announcement, GIRLS CANNOT BE PEDOPHILES.




They just cant'. Becuase you know, that would completely warp perception of the nerdy looking 30yr old with binoculars hanging beside his window that we think of when someone whispers pedophile.

[Otherside]

But yeah, pedophilia isn't limited to gays, it's just more prevelant in homosexual men.

non-biased and accepted source plz

[Jude]

non-biased and accepted source plz

He already tried that in some other thread and nobody believed him...see the thread about "Foley, Pedophile Scumbag"

[Steerpike]

Even if the source he sited wasn't turned down in peer review, it still wouldn't prove a causal link between homosexuality and pedophilia despite what the voices in his head (which he assumes are Jesus) tell him.

[Hababi]

non-biased and accepted source plz

Already provided it, proved it, and watched as the pedophile defenders refused to acknowledge it. Basically, you have a preconcieved notion and refuse to see otherwise.

*anticipates "look who's talking" post*

[Otherside]

Already provided it, proved it, and watched as the pedophile defenders refused to acknowledge it. Basically, you have a preconcieved notion and refuse to see otherwise.

*anticipates "look who's talking" post*

why are you attacking me and accusing me of being closeminded when I just asked for your sources

choose your battles plz

[Hababi]

why are you attacking me and accusing me of being closeminded when I just asked for your sources


I know you well enough to know you'll respond roughly the same as Steerpike :p

And geez I thought you'd be more offended at being linked with pedophile defenders than being closed minded :o

[Otherside]

I know you well enough to know you'll respond roughly the same as Steerpike :p

And geez I thought you'd be more offended at being linked with pedophile defenders than being closed minded :o

well i mean i know your not serious about those with differing opinions than yours automatically being condoners of pedophilia


the fact that you consider me close minded about having those differing opinions is what really gets me, because you're being serious :\

[Hababi]

well i mean i know your not serious about those with differing opinions than yours automatically being condoners of pedophilia


the fact that you consider me close minded about having those differing opinions is what really gets me, because you're being serious :\

Oh definately, social liberals are the most closed minded of all people and the most hypocritical.

[Otherside]

no see that one doesn't work either because it's such a generalizing statement that I know your just joking

[Hababi]

Oh but I'm not :evil:

[Steerpike]

And geez I thought you'd be more offended at being linked with pedophile defenders than being closed minded :o

When we've heard it a million times, it loses its sting.

And I notice that you take the cheap shots when we point out that you've failed quite miserably to prove a causal link. So maybe you should just stop talking before you make yourself look like a complete fool.

[Hababi]

No you just won't accept it that doesn't make me wrong.

[Steerpike]

No you just won't accept it that doesn't make me wrong.

What? Zero, let me demonstrate to you the equivalent of your logic.

OMG!!!!!11!!! Statistics show that the jails are predominantly occupied by black people! There must be an obvious link between being black and being a criminal that those fuzzy-minded liberals are missing!!! We must cure black people of their black-itude if we are to ever be safe!

Now, you and I both know that anyone who does make such a claim is a moron. So why are you using the same logic to justify your inability to keep your nose out of other people's bedrooms?

[Hababi]

The difference is that you're dealing with a sexual deviancy, not a skin color. And you can't ignore the abundance of pedophilia in gay literature and culture--oh wait you can and are :p

[Steerpike]

The difference is that you're dealing with a sexual deviancy, not a skin color.

Despite the fact that the scientific community is pretty certain that homosexuality is something you're born with. Like your skin color. If you want to tell me that you actually chose to be straight, I'm going to put a restraining order on you.

And you can't ignore the abundance of pedophilia in gay literature and culture--oh wait you can and are :p

Pfft! Zero is their anything you know less about than gay culture? I mean, besides science.

[Hababi]

Despite the fact that the scientific community is pretty certain that homosexuality is something you're born with.


Then why is it that an unusually high number of gays were molested as children? Merely a cosmic accident? Or perhaps you're wrong and making a spurious statement.

[Steerpike]

Then why is it that an unusually high number of gays were molested as children? Merely a cosmic accident? Or perhaps you're wrong and making a spurious statement.

Even if we assume your numbers aren't debateable at best in their accuracy, that still proves no causal link.

[Hababi]

Even if we assume your numbers aren't debateable at best in their accuracy, that still proves no causal link.


Oh ok so you just think it's sheer coincidence, pure happenstance...Mmm hmmm.

[Mr. Ron]

Wait, by "pedos" do you mean "pedophiles"? Are you sure you don't mean "child molesters", or do you honestly think that pedophiles are sub-human?

They pretty much both need to be locked away.

[Steerpike]

Oh ok so you just think it's sheer coincidence, pure happenstance...Mmm hmmm.

No, because I think your numbers are fake.

But even if I believed otherwise, you completely fail to understand that science cannot make conclusions based only on coincidence, conjecture, and speculation. The trouble is that you're approaching this from the same perspective as religion: you just take it at face value and on faith assume its true and agrees with your world view.

Science doesn't work that way. And your failure to understand this (as well as the fact that you conveniently ignore us whenever we bring it up) is the reason we dislike you.

[Scythe404]

Oh, great. This debate again.

Let's not jump on the merry go round of rotating knives again, okay? It hurts like hell to sit through and all we do is get cut to little shreds by the redundancy of this whole discussion.

[Steerpike]

Just as well. I don't feel like getting pissed off right now.

[Aaron]

This is quite the shocker :eek:

In all seriousness, though. This whole pedo save the children crap is driving me crazy to no end. WTF has happened to our country that this fear seems so pervasive these days?

According to the medical definition of pedophilia it is the attraction of adults to pre-pubescent or peripubescent (the beginning of puberty) children. Not 15 , 16, or 17 year old young people. Or even 14. Although I would say by my own way of thinking the line can be safely drawn there.

...



I agree. It's the media's new black-white relationships. Ask yourself, how old were your parents when they were engaged? I bet 90% were under 20 years old if they were born pre-60s.

[ATC]

Then why is it that an unusually high number of gays were molested as children? Merely a cosmic accident? Or perhaps you're wrong and making a spurious statement.

Correlation is not causation. Don't pretend it is.

[spitfirejunky]

Then why is it that an unusually high number of gays were molested as children?

Source this directly.

EDIT:

I've google'd this to no end and I can't find a single study that supports this. The consensus is that there hasn't been a high enough number of homosexuals put under these circumstances for it to be statistically significant.

[Cain]

:eek: Now Cain can't be bothered to create 3000 word posts, he just copies 3000 word articles for his uber long entries :p :D

You're really reaching, Zero.

[sweboy]

They pretty much both need to be locked away.

Then I think you're an idiot/fundie/fascist. Pick your favorite.

You can't possibly believe in human rights if you have that view.

[coheneran]

I don't know where people get it into their heads that 15 year olds are children. Their mentality is encouraged to be childlike, but it's clear from just having been a 14/15/16 year old, and hanging out with them, that they're not children. If they can sleep with each other, and they indubitably do, why can't they sleep with 30 year-olds? Logically, I ask, not morally.

[Mr. Ron]

Then I think you're an idiot/fundie/fascist. Pick your favorite.
You can't possibly believe in human rights if you have that view.

You use that line too much.


I believe in humans that deserve human rights as opposed to animals who wish to committ such acts as child abuse.

[Jude]

I believe in humans that deserve human rights as opposed to animals who wish to committ such acts as child abuse.

So in other words, anyone who's ever wished another person was dead should be punished just the same as someone who's committed murder

Great ideas you got there!

[Mr. Ron]

So in other words, anyone who's ever wished another person was dead should be punished just the same as someone who's committed murder

Great ideas you got there!

Wishing someone death and raping a child are two different things.

[Jude]

Wishing someone death and raping a child are two different things.

Well duh. One is a thought, the other is an action.

[Mr. Ron]

Well duh. One is a thought, the other is an action.

I'm not saying we should lock up people who think it, al though thos epeople should be looked into, but the ones who carry out the act of rape. I just don't think people like these deserve to share out rights.

[Jude]

I'm not saying we should lock up people who think it, al though thos epeople should be looked into, but the ones who carry out the act of rape. I just don't think people like these deserve to share out rights.
Um....you were saying pedophiles need to be punished.

Pedophiles =/= child rapists.

Punishing pedophiles the same as punishing child molesters would be like punishing someone who wants to kill someone the same as an actual murderer.

[Mr. Ron]

Um....you were saying pedophiles need to be punished.

Pedophiles =/= child rapists.

Punishing pedophiles the same as punishing child molesters would be like punishing someone who wants to kill someone the same as an actual murderer.

Then I mistated.

[Aklerc]

I really could not follow that story. Would some nice person summarise it for me?

[coheneran]

I really could not follow that story. Would some nice person summarise it for me?

A woman was sexually and emotionally traumatised at age 14, so I'm guessing her sexual and emotional growth was interrupted, or skipped a vital stage. Either way, she repressed it, became a teacher, and fell in love with some 14+ students of hers. If you've ever read Lolita, it's pretty much the same psychological situation.

[Maggot Dream]

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed by Zero for this, and I'm sure that someone here has read this before, but I feel that it's perfectly valid and should be read.

Concerns that children of gay or lesbian parents are more likely than children of heterosexual parents to be sexually abused have also been addressed. Results of work in this area reveal that the great majority of adults who perpetrate sexual abuse are male; sexual abuse of children by adult women is extremely rare (Finkelhor & Russell, 1984; Jones & MacFarlane, 1980; Sarafino, 1979). Moreover, the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse cases involve an adult male abusing a young female (Jenny, Roesler, & Poyer, 1994; Jones & MacFarlane, 1980). Available evidence reveals that gay men are no more likely than heterosexual men to perpetrate child sexual abuse (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978; Jenny et al., 1994; Sarafino, 1979). Fears that children in custody of gay or lesbian parents might be at heightened risk for sexual abuse are thus without basis in the research literature.

This is an excerpt from a study done by the American Pschyology Association on the different facets of same-sex parenthood. The whole report can be found here:

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

[Cain]

Why would you care if Zero flamed you for that post? You're coming up with legitimate research and have made a well-articulated, concise point.

Zero, on the other hand, just has a pile of poop that he flings at anybody who walks under his moral tree. That might piss you off but doesn't make you wrong.

[Danger Bird]

So it was YOU!

I've been looking for whoever came up with that picture for ages!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/Nath015/89403.jpg
^I also did my own rendition^

Mine's better.

[Maggot Dream]

Why would you care if Zero flamed you for that post? You're coming up with legitimate research and have made a well-articulated, concise point.

Zero, on the other hand, just has a pile of poop that he flings at anybody who walks under his moral tree. That might piss you off but doesn't make you wrong.

I figured since it was a few years old he might disregard its validity.

Has anyone else read that study? I figure it pretty much nullifies any arguement against gay parenthood, I'm glad I found it.

[Hababi]

The problem is that those are PC lies put out by gay fascists and those that cave into them; the national crime data for 2004 showed that child abuse is at the very least 3 times as prevelant with gay offenders than with straight. And those are low numbers against several studies that put them much higher.

[coheneran]

Yaaaay! You've finally got a sense of humour and started satirizing yourself!

[Maggot Dream]

I seriously hope that's all he's doing...

[Akira]

The problem is that those are PC lies put out by gay fascists and those that cave into them; the national crime data for 2004 showed that child abuse is at the very least 3 times as prevelant with gay offenders than with straight. And those are low numbers against several studies that put them much higher.

:lol:

I like your posts. Or at least the ones that aren't serious.

[spitfirejunky]

The problem is that those are PC lies put out by gay fascists and those that cave into them; the national crime data for 2004 showed that child abuse is at the very least 3 times as prevelant with gay offenders than with straight. And those are low numbers against several studies that put them much higher.

You keep pointing to statistics and never to explanation. Statistics almost always imply inaccurate relationships. A few years ago there was, simultaneously, a large increase in the number of meteorites that fell into Earth's atmosphere and a large decrease in ozone. The implied relationship was proven wrong emperically. People who dress up in blue clothing more often get heart attacks. This obviously doesn't mean that wearing blue clothing causes heart attacks.

So source an explanation please.

[coheneran]

You keep pointing to statistics and never to explanation. Statistics almost always imply inaccurate relationships. A few years ago there was, simultaneously, a large increase in the number of meteorites that fell into Earth's atmosphere and a large decrease in ozone. The implied relationship was proven wrong emperically. People who dress up in blue clothing more often get heart attacks. This obviously doesn't mean that wearing blue clothing causes heart attacks.

So source an explanation please.

Lol, dogma doesn't need an explanation, all it needs is an impressionable ear and a big-headed mouth.

[Hababi]

Hey another gay congressman exploiting pages:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15249733/

Yup I think they'd better keep the pages from all gay members of congress.

[coheneran]

Hey another gay congressman exploiting pages:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15249733/

Yup I think they'd better keep the pages from all gay members of congress.

Uhh, the one he was supposed to molest said nothing happened, the one he didn't molest said "no comment, don't wanna jeopardize my future as a politician", their guide said nothing happened, and the only source who said something MIGHT have happened, well, that guy wants to stay anonymous. In a case like this, it'd be thrown out of court.

Anyway, since when do we get shocked by abuse of power? Power and abuse of power come hand-in-hand.

[Hababi]

Uhh, the one he was supposed to molest said nothing happened, the one he didn't molest said "no comment, don't wanna jeopardize my future as a politician", their guide said nothing happened, and the only source who said something MIGHT have happened, well, that guy wants to stay anonymous. In a case like this, it'd be thrown out of court.


Oh come now if that was not about gays but instead about conservatives (or Likud members), you'd accept it on that much evidence :p

This is just getting started though. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[Jude]

This is just getting started though. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Yes and this folk saying definitely means that where there's an accusation, there's definitely been a crime.

In all cases. Even one where there's no tangible evidence of the crime. You know.

[coheneran]

Oh come now if that was not about gays but instead about conservatives (or Likud members), you'd accept it on that much evidence :p

This is just getting started though. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I don't particularly care what happens to them, especially the republican, I wasn't trying to defend them, I was disputing your homophobic views.

Yes and this folk saying definitely means that where there's an accusation, there's definitely been a crime.

In all cases. Even one where there's no tangible evidence of the crime. You know.

Lol good pwn.

[PerpetualBurn]

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Because no one ever falsely accuses anyone of anything.

And that's why we never ask for evidence.

Or rationality.

Serenity wins.

[coheneran]

The WTC had A LOT of smoke.

<_<
>_>

[Mr. Ron]

Oh man you're probably on to something right there.

[coheneran]

Oh man you're probably on to something right there.

lolz argumentating is fUn

[spitfirejunky]

:lol: :lol: Good one Coh.