Art Teacher fired for taking students to museum

[punkguitarist549]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/collin/frisco/stories/DN-nakedcomplaint_24cco.ART0.North.Edition1.3e87f61.h tml

FRISCO – A veteran Frisco art teacher says school administrators have retaliated against her because a student reportedly saw a nude sculpture during a field trip to the Dallas Museum of Art.

Ms. McGee told the board that the principal of Fisher Elementary School criticized her performance and threatened her job after a parent complained about the April field trip.

The school board rejected a request that would have allowed Ms. McGee to transfer to another school.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/education/30teacher.html?pagewanted=print
“This is very painful and getting more so,” she said, her eyes
moistening. “I’m so into art. I look at it for its value, what each civilization has left behind.”



I think that this is completely stupid.
Discuss.

[Electronic Wolf]

Most parents today are retards. I can't believe this happened.

[griftadan]

oh dallas schools.

[Futue te Ipsum]

NO NAKED PEOPLE MY EYES THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING

(seriously, wtf?)

[Iskandar]

So one whiny parent ruined someone's career although nobody else complained.

Is that the PC police I smell?

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

I'm fukn enraged. She should be

[AmericanWeiner]

yeah she should

art isn't pornographic and therefore not obscene.

[Jude]

yeah she should

art isn't animal photographsographic and therefore not obscene.

Now THIS is a good topic for debate, whereas the original topic isn't going to lead to anything but people bitching about how stupid some parents are.

How do you define the difference between art that contains depictions of nudity or sex, and pornography?

[Reaganista]

there's no difference whatsoever
porno is art

[AmericanWeiner]

porn is made with intent to cause sexual arousal, art is designed with artistic merit in mind.

[Reaganista]

well that's bull****

[Untitled]

OMG i was at uni today, and we all went to art gallerys on my course, and i must of seen at least 30 nude pictures.

My tutors are getting sacked, thats it, IM INSULTED......














How stupid, argh, things like this realy piss me off. Its impossable to do a sucsesful art course without visiting gallerys, they pretty much all have nude sculptures or paintings, its an art from, freedom of expression, i doubt it would of effected there childrens state of mind any.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

Yeah. It's bull****. Pornography is art.

[Jude]

animal photographs is made with intent to cause sexual arousal, art is designed with artistic merit in mind.

So we have to read the mind of the creator to determine it. Well that solves everything!

[Steerpike]

http://www.pvponline.com/article/2907/sun-oct-1

Sums up my feelings on the issue.

[AmericanWeiner]

So we have to read the mind of the creator to determine it. Well that solves everything!

well don't complain to me

someone asks how we define the difference and that's how the legal system defines it

[Steerpike]

Besides, it's not like the statues have got anything those kids haven't seen before. Hell, I remember the first time I saw a Greek statue. I remember thinking, "So, that's a part of my body that doesn't grow with the rest of me?"

[griftadan]

Now THIS is a good topic for debate, whereas the original topic isn't going to lead to anything but people bitching about how stupid some parents are.

How do you define the difference between art that contains depictions of nudity or sex, and animal photographsography?

porn is made with the intent to cause sexual arousal. art isn't.

[Reaganista]

that's bull****
anything that's both created and aesthetically pleasing is art

[Steerpike]

animal photographs is made with the intent to cause sexual arousal. art isn't.

The grey area is occupied by fantasy art such as Boris Vallejo.

[beso negro]

"animal photographs are made with the intent to cause sexual arousal."

What?? I must be missing something. Or this is a joke.

[griftadan]

that's bull****
anything that's both created and aesthetically pleasing is art

theres different kinds of aesthetic pleasure which we can divide porn from other art

[griftadan]

"animal photographs are made with the intent to cause sexual arousal."

What?? I must be missing something. Or this is a joke.

the website filters out the word "porn" and replaces it with animal photographs so school filters won't block the forum.

[anticipatious_phoenix]

You have to remember this happened in Texas. It's a republican state that pretends that it's school the old school way of life. It's not like the statue was a real human. It's a piece of art, no big deal. But no, in Texas, it's some major infraction.

But does this suprise you coming from a state that now only mentions abstinence in its health books and not educate on safe sex and STDs?

[griftadan]

not all schools do that, school districts are relatively autonomous in determing curriculum. my school in texas had sex ed.

[anticipatious_phoenix]

I didn't say all schools, but that's stupid to allow it taught like that at all. You know Texas has the highest birthrate amongst teens?

[griftadan]

yeah we also have alot of mexican immigrants who are catholic who don't believe in birth control.

[anticipatious_phoenix]

yes. it is true. everyone needs birth control. it's there for a reason. :smoke:

[italic zero]

the website filters out the word "porn" and replaces it with animal photographs so school filters won't block the forum.
Well, the real reason is more that Jeremy loves Christ.

[griftadan]

those christians have real class

[AmericanWeiner]

yes. it is true. everyone needs birth control. it's there for a reason. :smoke:

everyone knows a mexican girl can't married unless she gets knocked up

[Reaganista]

theres different kinds of aesthetic pleasure which we can divide animal photographs from other art
yeah there's some art that appeals to a sexual and/or beauty aesthetic
that doesn't make it not art

this argument is just as bad as people who say rap isn't music

[Africa]

Yeah sex prevails in RHCP musik.

[Yield]

Other than the fact that it's a red state, look at it this way. They were elementary school students. It wouldn't have been such a huge deal if it had been high school students, or even middle school. I think the cause of the overreaction was because of the age of the students and the fact that little kids like to tattle on their teachers.

[italic zero]

We should make children wear those cone dog collars so they can't see their bodies.

[Futue te Ipsum]

We should make children wear those cone dog collars so they can't see their bodies.why don't we just burn everybodies faces, amputate sexual organs and make all as hideous as possible so we can live in blissful ignorance of the fact that people do have something underneath clothes.

[Eliminator]

Other than the fact that it's a red state, look at it this way. They were elementary school students. It wouldn't have been such a huge deal if it had been high school students, or even middle school. I think the cause of the overreaction was because of the age of the students and the fact that little kids like to tattle on their teachers.

yeah because children have never seen something such as a body before

and to make it worse, it's in statue form!

[slack]

I'd say the vast majority of porn isn't intended to be artistic, but the same artistic principles/elements (line, symmetry, space, etc.) can be applied which does often blur the line. Some porn is photography, after all, and regardless of subject matter, most would agree that photography can be an artform.

[Futue te Ipsum]

boobies are plenty artistic

[Reaganista]

of course it's intended to be artistic
at least the fictional ones are
I guess you could argue that bonafide voyeur videos are more like news than art, but I'd say they're just avant garde

[slack]

The reason why I believe most of it is not intended to be artistic is because there is often a lack of the principles and elements that make something "art".

Without knowing the person's intentions, that is really all you can go by.

[Reaganista]

it sounds like you have a pretty stupid definition of art

[slack]

I suppose it's better than having such an all-inclusive definition that the word effectively loses all significance.

[Reaganista]

good thing that the definition i gave is nothing remotely like that then

[Antifa]

everyone knows a mexican girl can't married unless she gets knocked up

I find the amount of blatant racism present in these forums astonishing.

[slack]

Well, your definition doesn't really work anyway because if art is that which is "created and aesthetically pleasing" then porn doesn't qualify as art because it's not something that is created. It's recorded and often sold.

[666Ozzfan]

Oh no!! a nude statue!

What ever happened to accepting the body as a beautiful thing and what is wrong with a mere statue!!??!?

[Reaganista]

I find the amount of blatant racism present in these forums astonishing.
damn honkey

then porn doesn't qualify as art because it's not something that is created. It's recorded and often sold.
um
yeah it is created
people get together and create a video
are you being intentionally stupid

[slack]

Ha, semantics. I can play that, too.people get together and record a video

[I Am a Hat]

Ha, semantics. I can play that, too.

You record music too. I don't understand where you're going with this

[slack]

You record music too. I don't understand where you're going with thisFirst you have to create it using a musical instrument.

[Reaganista]

Ha, semantics. I can play that, too.
I'm not playing semantics
recording a video is creating a video
it brings a new and distinct thing into the world
now stop trying to troll me you aren't even entertaining

[italic zero]

not only are porn art, they're also educational

[slack]

I'm not playing semantics
recording a video is creating a video
it brings a new and distinct thing into the world
now stop trying to troll me you aren't even entertainingThis kind of goes back to what I was saying about having such a generalised definition of art that the word basically loses all significance. If you want to argue that all recordings are "art" by virtue of the fact that they exist, then I can't argue with that. It is too all-inclusive to be useful, in my opinion.

And I'm not "trolling you". Don't be so defensive.

[Antifa]

I'm not playing semantics
recording a video is creating a video
it brings a new and distinct thing into the world
now stop trying to troll me you aren't even entertaining

Which is why intellectual property is theft.

[Iskandar]

Which is why intellectual property is theft.
Whoa, what?

[Reaganista]

If you want to argue that all recordings are "art" by virtue of the fact that they exist
all recordings that exist and are aestetically pleasing are art
that's all there is to art

[Antifa]

Whoa, what?

I'm basically becoming a typical communist and hijacking the beliefs of others for my own conspiratorial and malignant purposes.

[Iskandar]

I'm basically becoming a typical communist and hijacking the beliefs of others for my own conspiratorial and malignant purposes.
Right.

[AmericanWeiner]

I find the amount of blatant racism present in these forums astonishing.

yeah I'm racist so what

[slack]

that's all there is to artNo, not really.

I mean, in a purely subjective way, yeah, you're right. And I can't argue with you about that. If someone wants to record only two dissonant sounds occuring minutes apart, and if they find that aesthetically pleasing, then I suppose to that person it is art.

But there are many techniques found in a wide array of art, so much so that they've become "principles" of art. Things such as line, and color, and I just think you can't go ignoring these things because omg artz is teh SUBJECTIVE.

[Reaganista]

I'm basically becoming a typical communist and hijacking the beliefs of others for my own conspiratorial and malignant purposes.
except the conclusion you came to made no sense whatsoever

[Antifa]

yeah I'm racist so what

Yeah I'd like to push you against a wall, so what?

[Antifa]

except the conclusion you came to made no sense whatsoever

I salvaged parts from both of your flawed arguments to fit my opinion.... Share what ya got?

[AmericanWeiner]

you like sex with racists?

you ****in nazi

[Antifa]

you like sex with racists?

you ****in nazi

That wasn't quite what I was referring to.

[Reaganista]

I salvaged parts from both of your flawed arguments to fit my opinion.... Share what ya got?
my argument was flawless and his was nonsense, so combining them wouldn't make much sense

[italic zero]

Yeah I'd like to push you against a wall, so what?
Are there any queers in the audience tonight?

[Antifa]

Let's see how many people's heads that comment goes flying over.

[AmericanWeiner]

Hey, dumbass, why don't you hang around the forums a while before you start calling people out?

I'm probably on the top ten list of MX Rabid Liberals

[Antifa]

my argument was flawless and his was nonsense, so combining them wouldn't make much sense

No it wasn't, but what's the point of arguing this late in the evening?

[Antifa]

Hey, dumbass, why don't you hang around the forums a while before you start calling people out.

I'm probably on the top ten list of MX Rabid Liberals

Hey, dumbass, I've been here for nearly six months, intermittently.

I despise rabies and liberalism.

[Reaganista]

yes it was
and it's the same point of arguing at any time
damn

[Africa]

Hey, dumbass, why don't you hang around the forums a while before you start calling people out?

You should try arguing without profanity and name calling, you obviously don't the fundamentals of persuasion.

[Antifa]

You should try arguing without profanity and name calling, you obviously don't the fundamentals of persuasion.

Well, he obviously isn't using any logos or ethos, but maybe he's using some sort of backwards pathos to somehow make us all dislike him?

[Reaganista]

You should try arguing without profanity and name calling, you obviously don't the fundamentals of persuasion.

profanity is good for you

mother****er

[AmericanWeiner]

You should try arguing without profanity and name calling, you obviously don't the fundamentals of persuasion.

Don't talk to me, you cretin. This isn't an arguement- it's you standing on your head, telling me that I'm upside down and me "accidentally" kicking your teeth out.

No, I don't expect you to get that. Take it to heart and suck your ****ty ideas back into the jello you try to call a brain.

Hey, dumbass, I've been here for nearly six months, intermittently.

I despise rabies and liberalism.

Did I ask what you liked? You don't get jokes. I don't care how long you've been here.

[Antifa]

Don't talk to me, you cretin. This isn't an arguement- it's you standing on your head, telling me that I'm upside down and me "accidentally" kicking your teeth out.

No, I don't expect you to get that. Take it to heart and suck your ****ty ideas back into the jello you try to call a brain.



Did I ask what you liked? You don't get jokes. I don't care how long you've been here.

You claimed to be a 'rabid liberal' as if you were somehow trying to gain my affection. I felt I needed to state where I stand when it comes to counter-revolution.

[AmericanWeiner]

Why on earth would I want your affection?

Stop dropping these pickup lines on me.

[slack]

my argument was flawless and his was nonsenseAn argument based on total sujectivity is only flawless in the sense that there's always going to be someone out there to validate it. That doesn't mean your argument makes sense in the real world, though, because like I said, "art" loses the significance it had because now it's being defined so broadly.

[AmericanWeiner]

guys if you want to define art you need to differentiate between pop art and classical art

[Antifa]

An argument based on total sujectivity is only flawless in the sense that there's always going to be someone out there to validate it. That doesn't mean your argument makes sense in the real world, though, because like I said, "art" loses the significance it had because now it's being defined so broadly.

So there's a real world and a subjective world?

[Reaganista]

An argument based on total sujectivity is only flawless in the sense that there's always going to be someone out there to validate it. That doesn't mean your argument makes sense in the real world, though, because like I said, "art" loses the significance it had because now it's being defined so broadly.
no it's not
and no it doesn't

[AmericanWeiner]

who you talkin @

[slack]

So there's a real world and a subjective world?Sometimes people use these weird things called "figures of speech".

[Antifa]

Sometimes people use these weird things called "figures of speech".

Since when?

[Reaganista]

guys if you want to define art you need to differentiate between pop art and classical art
well I don't

[Antifa]

guys if you want to define art you need to differentiate between pop art and classical art

What is the point of confining the concept of "art" to one definition when it clearly represents different things to different people?

[slack]

Since when?Since everything became art lol

[AmericanWeiner]

What is the point of confining the concept of "art" to one definition when it clearly represents different things to different people?

I doesn't really

[Africa]

This is funny.

[Lupus]

An argument based on total sujectivity is only flawless in the sense that there's always going to be someone out there to validate it. That doesn't mean your argument makes sense in the real world, though, because like I said, "art" loses the significance it had because now it's being defined so broadly.

It's better to have a broad defintion than one that doesn't make sense.

Edit: Has anyone arguing that porn isn't art actually come up with a defintion that excludes porn yet includes everything else that society generally considers art? I bet such a definintion would be more useless than Reaganista's.

[bleep_bloop]

It's funny how fine we as a society are with violence, while with something as natural as the human body people are shocked to such a great extent.

[Knifeboy]

I once found a stone that was shaped like a giant dong... .. I'm gonna get mother nature fired

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

:lol:

America is a seriously lame country




"oh no! our children are encountering nudity! Something they see every day when washing and changing!

"And seeing the opposite sex naked; that's like BEGGING our children to get pregnant!"

[Joey Hoser]

Just another example of someone's fear doing more damage than what they fear.

[RNR]

:lol:

America is a seriously lame country




"oh no! our children are encountering nudity! Something they see every day when washing and changing!

"And seeing the opposite sex naked; that's like BEGGING our children to get pregnant!"

It's not as bad as England with their anti-social behaviour laws. Or Canada with our law system where criminals are treated better than victims.

Lets just face it, the world sucks.

[VomitStainedCretin]

"And seeing the opposite sex naked; that's like BEGGING our children to get pregnant!"

:rolleyes: Of course, dont you know that if a girl sees a penis it equal auto-fellatio. :rolleyes:

:Gasp: A boy seeing his own dick will probably make him turn gay :lol:

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

guys if you want to define art you need to differentiate between pop art and classical art
no you don't

[RockAndRoll]

It's Or Canada with our law system where criminals are treated better than victims.

Err when did this happen?

[sexymuffin]

there i was in uniform
lookin' at the art teacher
i was just a girl then
and never have i loved since then
he was not much older than i was
he took the class to the metropolitan museum
he asked what our favorite work of art was
and never could i tell him, it was him


anyways, defining art is stupid becuase it's rediculously subjective.

[Veritas]

bye bye sane society :)

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

It's not as bad as England with their anti-social behaviour laws.


Those aren't the end of the world. Occasional misuse hides the fact that some (far more sensible, and better) anti-social behaviour laws are neccessary.

[TojesDolan]

Pornography is something that induces to sex. Or is somewhat driven by it.

Artistic nudity is just that. Bare body.

Geez parents.

[SubtleDagger]

There are plenty of pieces of art that show nudity in a completely sexual nature

The problem is that art is too subjective in most cases and porn is just as subjective

Everyone thinks this scenario is stupid but I guarantee if she had taken them to the Saatchi art exhibit before the parental warning was in place no one would be siding with her

[eseer erre]

I think the guy's been doing this for years.