He tried to warn us

[thirdeyeblindislit]

One of the last things that the founding father and first President of the United States George Washington warned us about was the formation of political parties. He stated that it may very well be the downfall of America as we know it.

Today we see not only the two major parties, Republicans and Democrats, going non stop at each other's throats, but also Libertarians, Independents and more stepping into the blame game circle for why America is the way that it is today.

Constantly, things are changing from good to bad to good to bad to worse to bad to worse again, toying with the American public due to political icons who want to keep their names in the United States government, and their party in the majority role. This can best be seen with gas prices, something that unfourtanately the American public is dependent on.

Lives are undoubtably ruined due to "smear" campaigns toward polictical opponents.

So here's the discussion,
Do you think that President Washington was right in his statement. Will political parties get so out of hand that it will rip America apart, or will things get better? Can this problem ever be fixed?

[LegionsofMarduk]

Polital parties will never go away. Views are too diverse. You're always going to have groups of people with similiar beliefs clinging together and voting for one of their own. I think we may see some of the smaller parties get larger and thereby gain more attention and more votes, but I don't think any of them will ever eclipse the democrats or republicans.

[sexymuffin]

all that stuff you see in the media and in washington is just politics, not the american people.

Most americans are moderate.

[LegionsofMarduk]

Which is exactly why we'll never see any of the smaller parties overtake either of the major parties.

[sexymuffin]

i think the war episode on south park is a pretty good commentary on the whole situation.

America can have its cake and eat it too by going to war and then actively saying that it doesn't want to. It's a delicate balancing act that we've been perfecting.

[ChimPz]

Political parties will alway bicker amongst each other and in a sense, that is a good thing, because any party will try to prevent the others from gaining too much power. Many dictatorships start with single party government and let's not forget that the NSDAP gaining total power in Germany in the 1930's led to the most bloody conflict in our history. There's other precedents as well.

Checks and balances is not a bad thing.

[thirdeyeblindislit]

Which is exactly why we'll never see any of the smaller parties overtake either of the major parties.

I don't know, Independents, are really on the rise. Especially, Arizona is behind an independent canidate right now running for house I think.

[Amit]

if washington was so smart how come he didn't warn us about the internet or 9/11

[thirdeyeblindislit]

if washington was so smart how come he didn't warn us about the internet or 9/11

hmm...I don't think that question even deserves to be answered...:thumb:

[Steerpike]

It's not political parties that are the problem. It's when the arguments devolve into the partisan hackery we see very prominently today.

[Danish]

Political parties are absolutely necessary in a democratic society and they are inevitable. Everyone knows that there is power in numbers, and that's the basis for parties, unions, NGOs, and even governments.The freedom of association combined with social conflict necessarily results in the formation of organizations geared toward increasing the power of their membership and, in the case of social movements (ie. labour unions, environmental groups, women's rights groups, etc.), the power of entire groups of people regardless of membership.

[thirdeyeblindislit]

It's not political parties that are the problem. It's when the arguments devolve into the partisan hackery we see very prominently today.

That's true.

I believe that if we focused more on the important parts of issues and not just trying to win, political parties wouldn't be so bad.

[ChimPz]

hmm...I don't think that question even deserves to be answered...:thumb:
Yes it does.

It's because Washington was really the reincarnation of Jezus, Nostradamus, Da Vinci AND Elvis:rolleyes:

If the question doesn't make any sense, neither should the answer.

[Hababi]

Washington's view of how the government should work was quite different than what we would find acceptable...

I don't think political parties are a good thing. Necessary? Probably. But they lead to greater partisanship, corruption and Failure.

[AA-12]

Washington's view of how the government should work was quite different than what we would find acceptable...

I don't think political parties are a good thing. Necessary? Probably. But they lead to greater partisanship, corruption and Failure.

My thoughts completely.

It's hard to judge things when you're looking at hundreds of years difference.

[sexymuffin]

yeah washington had slaves wtf

[666Ozzfan]

I get kinda confused about american politics. What are the definitions of left/right and republican/democrat. Are the last two just parties?

:confused:

[AmericanWeiner]

polarization combined with single candidate elections is the problem

[666Ozzfan]

Ok, a mate of mine had a really crazy idea for politics. It would require a huge makeover for the education system in the country. Politics would be a much larger part of peoples' lives.

Anyway, here it is.

How many people sit in parliament? Here we have 120 ish, selected from parties to the respective number of party votes. Anyway, that's 120 seats.

My mates idea was, that (in the first year) of all the people on the electoral roll, randomly pick 120 people. Give these people 1 year of intense political training. After that year, put them in parliament, and tell them: "sort this country out"

Now, two years later, you randomly pick 60 people, and train them, then remove half the people already in parliament, and put the new 60 in. Two years after that, take out the 60 who got there first, and put a new 60 in.

Thus, a rolling parliament.

Pros: removes parties, and career polititians, random picking generates ~even proportion of people from the country.
Cons: likely to be very difficult to implement, who would want to do this?

The question is, would it actually work? I don't know, it might..... but more than likely will fail.

[AmericanWeiner]

That wouldn't work.

It's neat and all, but it's way too...unthought out.

I mean, it's easy to say NO THAT WOULDN'T WORK, but that's a very basic way of how democratic elections in multiple party systems work.

[666Ozzfan]

Yeah, it is very rough, but with alot more work, it might. Why do you think it wouldn't?

[AmericanWeiner]

The fact that you can't take 120 people up from their lives and put them into a career they know nothing about and expect them to learn it in a year.

It would be incredibly weak and volatile.

[666Ozzfan]

Therefore the extreme turnover of the education system. And a 1-year intense course. If you go through your whole school life learning about politics.....

I realise it would be very extreme. I mean, studying politics would become mandatory, as would have to go to school til you're 18. And it would be horribly strict regarding attendance.

The government to implement it would be very much disliked, and would have to complete it in their first term of being in parliament, because chances are, they wouldn't be voted back in.

[AmericanWeiner]

Studying politics doesn't make you qualified.

"Extreme" is rarely ever attainable in politics.

[666Ozzfan]

Studying politics doesn't make you qualified.

"Extreme" is rarely ever attainable in politics.

I should have said studying the political system, and how it works.

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. That this wouldn't be able to be implemented.

[BassRevelation]

prob been said, but he also warned us about foreign intervention.

of course he was right. We should have listened, we didnt.

[semi]

what about when wotan gets randomly chosen? the people in parliament arent meant to do anything but listen to us and do what we want. so we have to vote them in it cant be random. and its not up to those people to sort the country out and theres nothing to make them. they have to be accountable.

[uhhyeah]

what about when wotan gets randomly chosen? the people in parliament arent meant to do anything but listen to us and do what we want. so we have to vote them in it cant be random. and its not up to those people to sort the country out and theres nothing to make them. they have to be accountable.

Yup. No accountability or prospects of being reelection means there's no incentive to actually do anything. Conscription into the political system is just a bad idea.

[Reaganista]

it's odd that you would write a thing like the constitution of the united states and then tell people not to form political parties

[AmericanWeiner]

go learn politics

[Reaganista]

:lol:
are you prepared to argue that parties are not a natural consequence of the constitution