recording for dummies

[green242]

Hi all. I don't post here much at all. But here's the deal. I'm a drummer, and thinking about some recording gear for my band. Punk/ska. I have a 6 piece drums (4 tom), 2 guitarists, and bass, and vocals. I'm

I need a starting point on some recording stuff. Nothing pricy. Our band needs some demo type material. I have a laptop with cool edit pro 2.0 that could be of some use, but basically i'm a total noob at recording. So I need some stuff for a start.

I have been looking into buying those drum mic kits for somewhere's under $500 I think. But also thinking of going other ways and buying seperate mics. I hear nothing but good about the sm57's, so thinkin about those also.

So I need a starting point, such as plugin's for my computer, sound cards I will/maynot need, mixers.. whatnot. I'm not looking to get elaborate or anything, just some decent recording.

Any help is appreciated.

[Ethan.]

SM57's are good for instruments. You should probably get a vocal mic for your singer.

I don't know about recording drums, but you don't need a mixer for anything else. All the effects in CEP2 would be better than any from a mixer.

If you aren't looking for professional quality sound, I wouldn't worry about getting expensive sound cards and stuff like that. Cool Edit Pro 2.0 is a really good program and you can clean stuff up pretty good with it.

[green242]

So suggestions on what I should use to get the sound to the computer? I was thinking on getting the bass and guitars to play, record that, then the drums, and then vocals. What could I use to keep bleeding down? maby something to gear up 3 sets of headphones.

[cadencethefire]

Hi all. I don't post here much at all. But here's the deal. I'm a drummer, and thinking about some recording gear for my band. Punk/ska. I have a 6 piece drums (4 tom), 2 guitarists, and bass, and vocals. I'm

I need a starting point on some recording stuff. Nothing pricy. Our band needs some demo type material. I have a laptop with cool edit pro 2.0 that could be of some use, but basically i'm a total noob at recording. So I need some stuff for a start.

I have been looking into buying those drum mic kits for somewhere's under $500 I think. But also thinking of going other ways and buying seperate mics. I hear nothing but good about the sm57's, so thinkin about those also.

So I need a starting point, such as plugin's for my computer, sound cards I will/maynot need, mixers.. whatnot. I'm not looking to get elaborate or anything, just some decent recording.

Any help is appreciated.

audix is really cheap and they're the same quality sound as shure, plus they're durable... my old drummer used to hit the tops off our sm57's, then we got audix i5's

[cadencethefire]

So suggestions on what I should use to get the sound to the computer? I was thinking on getting the bass and guitars to play, record that, then the drums, and then vocals. What could I use to keep bleeding down? maby something to gear up 3 sets of headphones.

one more thing, the digidesign mbox 2 standard is about 450 bucks and it comes with pro tools LE.

http://www.csun.edu/~njm35092/mp3/Cadence%20The%20Fire/Demo/New%20Mixes/VOSFUW%20FINAL%20MIX%20INCOMPLETE.mp3

that's the kind of sound you get with audix mic's and the mbox 2 and i've only been working with it for 6 months

[Seafroggys]

audix is really cheap and they're the same quality sound as shure, plus they're durable... my old drummer used to hit the tops off our sm57's, then we got audix i5's

then your drummer needs to be more accurate and controlled in his playing.

[Moseph]

audix is really cheap and they're the same quality sound as shure, plus they're durable... my old drummer used to hit the tops off our sm57's, then we got audix i5's

The Shure SM57 is one of the most durable mics on the planet. It takes an incredible amount of abuse to get them to stop working. They literally have Quality Control throw them against a concrete wall and still can still pass good audio through them afterward at the factory (a friend of mine interned at Shure over the summer).

If you're regularly breaking your SM57, you're doing something wrong.

[cadencethefire]

The Shure SM57 is one of the most durable mics on the planet. It takes an incredible amount of abuse to get them to stop working. They literally have quality control throw them against a concrete wall and still can still pass good audio through them (a friend of mine interned at Shure over the summer).

If you're regularly breaking your SM57, you're doing something wrong.

the drummer bareley hit them with his sticks while coming back up from a hit, and he's not a bad drummer at all, better than most i would say... Out of all the microphones i've used to record the 57 was probably the weakest, if you're talking about the sm58 then i totally agree, the i5's are the way to go though, the guy that sold it to me threw it on the ground really hard and it didn't even dent...

see the difference at the head?

http://www.guitarsolo.com/audix-i5-mic.jpg
http://images.misupply.com/products/original/Shure/63813.jpg

[Moseph]

the drummer bareley hit them with his sticks while coming back up from a hit, and he's not a bad drummer at all, better than most i would say... Out of all the microphones i've used to record the 57 was probably the weakest, if you're talking about the sm58 then i totally agree, the i5's are the way to go though, the guy that sold it to me threw it on the ground really hard and it didn't even dent...


I've used them both. I still say you aren't giving the 57 enough credit. It's possible you bought a defective or damaged one.

[cadencethefire]

I've used them both. I still say you aren't giving the 57 enough credit. It's possible you bought a defective or damaged one.

that's completely possible, the mic's we used were pretty old so it may have been broken for a while, OR a different older model too. we bought those things a long time ago. I'll have to look into them again, it has been a while since i've used anything since my audix mic pac.

on a tangent i totally think you should be the jam session mod, most people on ANY forum would have totally gotten angry or offensive with a conversation like this one. Personally i think you'd make a better supermod because you're patient. Good luck with that.

[cadencethefire]

then your drummer needs to be more accurate and controlled in his playing.

his drum heads only had marks in three inch radius, it was hit off on the way back up

[Ethan.]

If he's hitting microphones, he needs to work on his accuracy and control. Either that or the mics are set up in all the wrong places.

But, it doesn't matter if its on the way up or the way down. Microphones cost a lot, and if your drummer is hitting them, you'd think he'd have enough common sense to stop hitting them.

Back on topic...
So suggestions on what I should use to get the sound to the computer? I was thinking on getting the bass and guitars to play, record that, then the drums, and then vocals. What could I use to keep bleeding down? maby something to gear up 3 sets of headphones.
What do you mean bleeding?

Oh nevermind I think I know what you mean. Why not just have them play at different times?

[Moseph]

My two cents:

Part of the art of recording and tracking is getting a good sound with your microphones without interfering with the performance itself. I make it a point to never consider a mic well-placed until it both sounds good and also isn't in any danger of causing a screw-up by the musician, or in the track itself.

[10571z]

Ive Head from many people sm57's are weak compared to other mics

[10571z]

one more thing, the digidesign mbox 2 standard is about 450 bucks and it comes with pro tools LE.

http://www.csun.edu/~njm35092/mp3/Cadence%20The%20Fire/Demo/New%20Mixes/VOSFUW%20FINAL%20MIX%20INCOMPLETE.mp3

that's the kind of sound you get with audix mic's and the mbox 2 and i've only been working with it for 6 months

hey man can i ask exactly what equipment (mics mixer soundcard)you used for that. it sounds insanely good.

[pitchfork]

Never be a cheapskate on recording, a good recording is what could seal you that contract or big gig.

Ideally on drums I would put:
SM57's on toms and snare
SM81's as overheads
AKGD112 on kick(s)

Which is a good place to start because sm57's have many other uses too. SM81's could be used as a stereo pair to record vocals perhaps if you didn't want to buy a ribbon mic or large diaphragm condesnor. and AKGD112 on bass amp if you didn't want to line out.

Its a pretty ideal little start package if you ask me.

Then I would go mixer -> soundcard through RCA but I have been told that doesn't give great quality.
Mixer wise you can't go wrong with the yamaha MG series.

Also remember to use good quality cables preferably with neutrik connectors, equipment is only as good as the cable you put between it. Get the best cable you can afford.

[Moseph]

Also remember to use good quality cables preferably with neutrik connectors, equipment is only as good as the cable you put between it. Get the best cable you can afford.

I disagree. Particularly since there is this thing called "Monster Cable" that isn't particularly good but costs 10x or more than other quality cables.

A good cable will have a good connector (Neutrik, Canare, Redco), a well-designed shield, a resilient jacket, and well-installed solder joints. If it is properly cared for (most people don't care for cables the right way, even if they think they do), it should last a long time. I even have a cheap $2 First Act guitar cable that I bought 6 years ago that still works as well as the day I purchased it.

In your particular signal chain, I'd say that RCA will be fine. I think the soundcard (or possibly the MG preamps) will be worse for your sound than the cable will. The thing about RCA is that it is unbalanced, so you need to keep your cable runs to within 6 meters or so.

[green242]

Ok, so I got good suggestions for mics. But now I will need some sort of 5-8 channell input for my laptop? I know, there has been suggestions, but I want to gear the conversation more towards getting the sound to the computer?
one more thing, the digidesign mbox 2 standard is about 450 bucks and it comes with pro tools LE.
that's the kind of sound you get with audix mic's and the mbox 2 and i've only been working with it for 6 months
So was that recording done with JUST the mics and the mbox? How many mic inputs did you use for that? That sounds very professional by the way.

[pitchfork]

I disagree. Particularly since there is this thing called "Monster Cable" that isn't particularly good but costs 10x or more than other quality cables.

A good cable will have a good connector (Neutrik, Canare, Redco), a well-designed shield, a resilient jacket, and well-installed solder joints. If it is properly cared for (most people don't care for cables the right way, even if they think they do), it should last a long time. I even have a cheap $2 First Act guitar cable that I bought 6 years ago that still works as well as the day I purchased it.

In your particular signal chain, I'd say that RCA will be fine. I think the soundcard (or possibly the MG preamps) will be worse for your sound than the cable will. The thing about RCA is that it is unbalanced, so you need to keep your cable runs to within 6 meters or so.
Don't get me start on monster cables, they are such a waste of money.
But so often I see people with brilliant gear and its being strung together by the cheapest cables known to man.

I use Neutrik connectors with either Klotz or Van damme cable, relatively cheap and they are bloody good.

And yes you've gotta use the over under method and such to keep cables in good condition I know that.

Do you want a mixer or an interface green, how many mic preamps how many jack preamps?

[green242]

^^ which is the most efficient, or logical, considering price.
I have been looking into things. So don't get me on being lazy. But I understand that for each X amount of interfaces(I think), I need a soundcard with at least X amount of channels. Which would be ideal, but most expensive I would guess. So what I would need would be 1 interface, and a mixer with 4-8 channels for my drums.
Am I wrong. That would be most price efficient way? But then I realize I would then not be able to edit my inputs later with the computer. Such as ex. Turn up my kick, and turn down my snare when I get into the mixing of the whole thing?
Am I totally wrong?

[Ethan.]

Don't crappy cables make extra noise too?

[10571z]

yes.

[pitchfork]

You could get a USB or Firewire interface which will give you 8 or 10 seperate channels or something.

Or you can get a mixer and a half decent soundcard, I would get a yamaha MG series mixer and an maudio soundcard to plug into.

[cadencethefire]

hey man can i ask exactly what equipment (mics mixer soundcard)you used for that. it sounds insanely good.

allright i'll give you exactly what we're using:

Digidesign Mbox 2
Found here:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Digidesign-Mbox-2-USB-Audio-Interface?sku=240479

a berhinger euro rack mixer (8 xlr's)
found here:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Eurorack-UB2442FXPRO-Mixer?sku=631230V

6 drum mics:
two overhead mxl 9000 condensor mic's with tube pre amps
and four audix i5 directional mic's (we even used a directional mic on the kick drum)

here's how we mic'd the bass

we have an ampeg solid state 1500 watt amp (i'll have to ask my bass player what model) and it has an xlr di out. i also mic'd one of the cones and an other mic about 8 feet away up on the ceiling to get the sound you hear when you're actually listening to live bass

the guitars:
a pod 2.0 di to the mbox with the "rectified" amp model or on the newer pods the "treadplate" and then i doubled up the guitar, two separate recordings for left and right playing the exact same thing (it makes it sound fuller that way)

i'm not sure if that version has vocals and piano but here's how we did those:

Piano, a di running into the berhinger mixer then to the mbox (we have a really nice piano emulator with 88 keys)

the vocals were just one of the mxl9000 mic's into the mixer and then to the mbox

to make sure you have the best sound you can possibly get, make a pro tools project just for level tests record after every tweak you make until you get the sound you want.

allright, this is where it gets complicated. In order to make as many tracks as possible for each instrument (using the mbox2) i made a new project for each instrument. For example: I started out with a drum project where i only recorded drums, then i bounced the drum file as a low quality WAV file for reference in the bass project, to import the drum file as a single track on your bass project go to file>import>audio to track. Once you're done recording the bass project mute the drum track and bounce that as a low quality WAV file as well. Import both to "semi final" project using your low quality files for raw mixing (for future projects). bounce that project as well to import to the next project (guitar).

Keep doing that until you've recorded all your instruments. When you're satisfied with each project bounce each one as a super high quality wav file (it'll be about 300 megs per instrument) and import them into a final project there you should be able to mix the song as you see fit.

the mbox 2 comes with pro tools le and we just used the factory plugins which are crap, in the new version of that song we purchased the waves diamond pack so it's going to sound a lot better when i put that version up!

[green242]

Awsome.. So I guess that sums it up. about $1200 for the gear, and you come out with that. It's pretty damn good bang for buck if ya ask me. Thanks for the help

[cadencethefire]

Awsome.. So I guess that sums it up. about $1200 for the gear, and you come out with that. It's pretty damn good bang for buck if ya ask me. Thanks for the help

prettymuch, it's really not that expensive if you think about it. Musician's friend has a platnum card that if you make a purchase over like 500 you can pay no interest for a year and it's only like 15-20 bucks a month... i'd say for making demos you really should try to make the best you can, it'll stand out amongst the rest. That's what we're trying to do...