Anchor babies

[666Ozzfan]

Ok, I just saw a part of fox news (yes, I know that fox news sucks), and they were talking about how illegal immigrants get into america, and have kids. Basically meaning that the kids are US citizens, and that the authorities can't deport them. Because it is fox news, can anyone else shed any light on this and what your views are? Because to me, it seems horribly unfair and rather stupid.

[semi]

in america you get citizenship at birth yes.

[666Ozzfan]

But the parents got there illegally. One major point brought up was the fact that they later get free education, health care etc. Not fair, in my opinion, to the american tax payers legally living in america.

[Jude]

And? The law says being born in the US gives you citizenship. It's always been that way.

[FA]

Jude is right, but look at it this way: If the parents are caught and deported, their children are more than likely gonna go with them, whether or not they're American. If they do happen to go to an orphanage or something, they are still American citizens, regardless of the event.

[nitzguy]

Ok, I just saw a part of fox news (yes, I know that fox news sucks), and they were talking about how illegal immigrants get into america, and have kids. Basically meaning that the kids are US citizens, and that the authorities can't deport them. Because it is fox news, can anyone else shed any light on this and what your views are? Because to me, it seems horribly unfair and rather stupid.

Yeah the anchor baby trick. have a kid, and you basically get in if they're born in the US. Family is big in the us.

[Jude]

Yeah but they can still legally deport the parents and the parents aren't going to just leave their kids there, so what good is it going to do them?

[ringworm]

One major point brought up was the fact that they later get free education, health care etc. Not fair, in my opinion, to the american tax payers legally living in america.

That's the main reason why so many want tighter regulations, they aren't bigots & racists, they know what illegal immigration REALLY costs our country.

[griftadan]

yeah, jus soli or something, i forget the latin term for the law.

[Jude]

That's the main reason why so many want tighter regulations, they aren't bigots & racists, they know what illegal immigration REALLY costs our country.

I have a much bigger problem with bazillions of dollars being blown on the military and wasted by corruption than with a few Mexican kids getting educated by my taxes.

[ringworm]

If it were only "a few", then we wouldn't even be having this discussion

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Did they say how many families do this?

[Jude]

If it were only "a few", then we wouldn't even be having this discussion

A relatively few.

My point was that there are way worse things our tax money is being spent on. I really don't care about this issue to be honest.

[Reaganista]

um educating someone isn't a bad thing

[Jude]

um educating someone isn't a bad thing

I didn't mean to imply it was.

[ringworm]

Having a law where all you have to do is illegally run across a border, squat, squirt a kid out & then raise a Mexican flag at a USA Post Office demanding more rights for illegal immigrants doesn't make much sense either:/

[Jude]

Having a law where all you have to do is illegally run across a border, squat, squirt a kid out & then raise a Mexican flag at a USA Post Office demanding more rights for illegal immigrants doesn't make much sense either:/

Good thing the citizenship law doesn't encourage that then.

[DBoons Ghost]

A lot of other countries work the same. You do realize that.

I pondered having my daugher in Italy just so she could have dual citizenship. Many immigrants who come here legally do the same thing.

It's because their mexicans and "not like you" that upsets most Americans. If it were upstanding Europeans, no one would complain. But because it's lesser people running across the border or literally dying to get here you gripe.

We all came the same way. We all started from scratch. We all basked under the glow of Lady Liberty. That is what this country is made of. Maybe it's time you reminded yourselves of that.

[ATC]

TS, you live in NZ which also believes in jus soli. There's absolutely no need for change in that law nor any reason for alarm. The illegal immigrants aren't picketing because they have kids that are American citizens.

[Volumnius Flush]

Ok, I just saw a part of fox news (yes, I know that fox news sucks), and they were talking about how illegal immigrants get into america, and have kids. Basically meaning that the kids are US citizens, and that the authorities can't deport them. Because it is fox news, can anyone else shed any light on this and what your views are? Because to me, it seems horribly unfair and rather stupid.

It's entirely true. The parents know their children are entitled to an education, and many of them get better medical care than white citizens.

In addition to this travesty, the government is in effect paying the illegal aliens to have kids by continuing to pork barrel welfare programs. Simply put, each kid earns a certain amount of money and the more kids means the more money. The parents realize they will only get paid by not working and many take advantage of this and don't [work].

Disastrous.

[ATC]

Except US citizens aren't all white.
And illegal immigrants probably work harder than you do. That's the whole point of illegal immigration. And popping out enough kids for that strategy to be sustainable would entail a long-term thing. By which time, they contribute more to the economy than they take away.

[DBoons Ghost]

It's entirely true. The parents know their children are entitled to an education, and many of them get better medical care than white citizens.

Proof of this? White citizens still and will make up the highest demographic of welfare recipients in this country, and HMOs for welfare recipients are horrible.

In addition to this travesty, the government is in effect paying the illegal aliens to have kids by continuing to pork barrel welfare programs. Simply put, each kid earns a certain amount of money and the more kids means the more money. The parents realize they will only get paid by not working and many take advantage of this and don't [work].

Disastrous.

The very same applies to all citizens of this country, and as stated, is taken advantage of by everyone, including white people. Since white people are still the majority in this country and will be for a very long time.

[AmericanWeiner]

Ok here's the magical thing-

It costs about as much to ship a whole family back as it does to raise a child.

They don't just say "Hey, you, go to mexico" you know.

[Volumnius Flush]

Ok here's the magical thing-

It costs about as much to ship a whole family back as it does to raise a child.

They don't just say "Hey, you, go to mexico" you know.

Sources please.

The government should allow private, law-abiding citizens to round up illegals and take them back. That's the true spirit of capitalism.

[LittlePound]

everyone's broken some sort of law atleast once in their life, unless you only like 7 years old. In which case, no one can be considered "law abiding" because they are "law breakers". So should we leave the round up to 7 year old's, or who is to determine what is meant by "law abiding".

[AmericanWeiner]

Sources please.

The government should allow private, law-abiding citizens to round up illegals and take them back. That's the true spirit of capitalism.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/07/26/the-high-cost-of-deportation/

The data analysis estimates the cost to be at least $206 billion over 5 years ($41.2 billion annually), and could be as high as $230 billion. We arrived at this number even after assuming that 2 million of the 10 million would leave on their own–a pretty large assumption.

That comes out to $25,750 per person (including transport, incarceration, legal fees etc).

Two adults and one (anchor) child is more than $75,000

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/backgrounders/school_funding.html

In an "average" state about one student in eight would live in a district that pays $3,800 or less, and one student in eight lives in a district that pays $5,400 or more.

It is likely that an illegal immigrant would be raised in one of these districts. Assuming that they graduate, that's $45,800 in public expenditure to school the child, which is the mostly costly service that children recieve on average.

everyone's broken some sort of law atleast once in their life, unless you only like 7 years old. In which case, no one can be considered "law abiding" because they are "law breakers". So should we leave the round up to 7 year old's, or who is to determine what is meant by "law abiding".

I haven't

[DBoons Ghost]

Sources please.

The government should allow private, law-abiding citizens to round up illegals and take them back. That's the true spirit of capitalism.

I fail to see how our economic stance has anything to do with liberty. You realize economy is not the same thing as government?

Besides, who is really to say one of those illegals doesn't start a business that will eventually employ people.

The dude who started McDonalds was an illegal immigrant too. Should he have been kicked out?

Actually, no one answer that one..

[AmericanWeiner]

Actually, no one answer that one..

:lol:

[griftadan]

Sources please.

The government should allow private, law-abiding citizens to round up illegals and take them back. That's the true spirit of capitalism.

no capitalism requires monopolized coercive force on the part of the government, vigilantism is the opposite of this.

[LittlePound]

I haven't
So you're telling me that in all of your life you've never:
driven faster than the speed limit
ran a stop sign
skipped school
smoked underage
drank underage
stole anything
driven a car without a licencse(permit)/ or without an adult in the car (if you're on a permit).
etc. etc. etc.
Chances are, you've broken one of the laws above, but even if you haven't, there are thousands of laws and i'm sure you've broken one of them.

[AmericanWeiner]

So you're telling me that in all of your life you've never:
driven faster than the speed limit
ran a stop sign
skipped school
smoked underage
drank underage
stole anything
driven a car without a licencse(permit)/ or without an adult in the car (if you're on a permit).
etc. etc. etc.
Chances are, you've broken one of the laws above, but even if you haven't, there are thousands of laws and i'm sure you've broken one of them.

I think you fail to understand the legal system you are so adamantly for.

But no. I haven't done any of that or anything else that is illegal, for that matter. Ever.

[LittlePound]

I think you fail to understand the legal system you are so adamantly for.
I understand what breaking the law is. It's against the law to speed. That means if you're going 26mph in a 25mph zone, you're breaking the law. Now, just becuase you aren't caught, or cops give you 5mph leniancy doesn't mean anything, you've still broken the law.


But no. I haven't done any of that, or anything else that is illegal. Ever.
Apparently somebody doesn't drive yet, wait until you get a car and then tell me you've never gone over the speed limit.

[AmericanWeiner]

I understand what breaking the law is. It's against the law to speed. That means if you're going 26mph in a 25mph zone, you're breaking the law. Now, just becuase you aren't caught, or cops give you 5mph leniancy doesn't mean anything, you've still broken the law.


Apparently somebody doesn't drive yet, wait until you get a car and then tell me you've never gone over the speed limit.

APPARENTLY I"M INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY YOU HALFWIT

[LittlePound]

APPARENTLY I"M INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY YOU HALFWIT

you may be innocent, but i don't think you can convince me or anyone else that you've never broken any laws. Just becuase no one knows, just becuase you're innocent in others eyes, just becuase you weren't caught, doesn't mean you're not a "law breaker".

[Jude]

In addition to this travesty, the government is in effect paying the illegal aliens to have kids by continuing to pork barrel welfare programs. Simply put, each kid earns a certain amount of money and the more kids means the more money. The parents realize they will only get paid by not working and many take advantage of this and don't [work].



LOL this isn't true at all.

[AmericanWeiner]

you may be innocent, but i don't think you can convince me or anyone else that you've never broken any laws. Just becuase no one knows, just becuase you're innocent in others eyes, just becuase you weren't caught, doesn't mean you're not a "law breaker".

uh hello if I've never been convicted of a crime then that means I've never broken a law and the only way that you can say I have is to get a guilty conviction on me.

Otherwise, it's libel/slander. :thumb:

[LittlePound]

so, i can go kill someone, but as long as i don't get convicted i'm innocent.
WRONG!
i may be seen as innocent in others eyes, but that doesn't change the fact that i would be a murderer. Just becuase no one knows doesn't change the fact that it was done. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that you're not perfect and that you've broken a law, regardless of anyone else knowing about it.

[AmericanWeiner]

so, i can go kill someone, but as long as i don't get convicted i'm innocent.
WRONG!
i may be seen as innocent in others eyes, but that doesn't change the fact that i would be a murderer. Just becuase no one knows doesn't change the fact that it was done. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that you're not perfect and that you've broken a law, regardless of anyone else knowing about it.

Because you were refuting a point that said that all law-abiding citizens should be allowed to round up illegals and ship them off personally.

Guess how we determine if they're law-abiding? We check to see if they have any outstanding arrests/convictions!

gg genius

P.S. And no that's exactly how it works. If the jury says innocent then you are legally innocent and there is nothing that anyone can do about it.

[lfantwister]

Because you were refuting a point that said that all law-abiding citizens should be allowed to round up illegals and ship them off personally.
A brilliant plan that could never be used to foster discrimination or violent behavior or anything like that.

[AmericanWeiner]

A brilliant plan that could never be used to foster discrimination or violent behavior or anything like that.

Of course not! :cool:

[LittlePound]

Because you were refuting a point that said that all law-abiding citizens should be allowed to round up illegals and ship them off personally.

Guess how we determine if they're law-abiding? We check to see if they have any outstanding arrests/convictions!

gg genius

P.S. And no that's exactly how it works. If the jury says innocent then you are legally innocent and there is nothing that anyone can do about it.
just becuase you're "legally innocent" automatically clear you of what you did (if you did do something). It just means you won't be punished, that doesn't change whether or not you did or didn't do it.
If i was convicted of murder, but i didn't do it, me being convicted doesn't change the fact that i didn't do it, all that means is that i'll be punished for someone elses crimes. Same thing vice versa.

[lfantwister]

just becuase you're "legally innocent" automatically clear you of what you did (if you did do something). It just means you won't be punished, that doesn't change whether or not you did or didn't do it.
If i was convicted of murder, but i didn't do it, me being convicted doesn't change the fact that i didn't do it, all that means is that i'll be punished for someone elses crimes. Same thing vice versa.

This is not about religion. If you're legally innocent, you're innocent

[Reaganista]

no you aren't
what a crazy thing to say

[666Ozzfan]

TS, you live in NZ which also believes in jus soli. There's absolutely no need for change in that law nor any reason for alarm. The illegal immigrants aren't picketing because they have kids that are American citizens.

Yes, but because of our location, we don't have a problem with large numbers of illegal immigrants. They all go to Australia.

I understand that I was watching fox news, and so, can't be toooo reliable. But apparantly, it was a huge problem.

[WhoDidTheElf]

I would post an email with some statistics from the LA Times about the Illegal Alien problem in LA, but I can't actually find the artical on the websight, some of the statistics are rather startling though.

[lfantwister]

no you aren't
what a crazy thing to say
i love how you back up all your inslightful comments with information

I would post an email with some statistics from the LA Times about the Illegal Alien problem in LA, but I can't actually find the artical on the websight, some of the statistics are rather startling though.
you know what statistics are more important and more startline? Just hoe much of the economy the illegal population makes up. And how awful it would deteriorate without cheap labor.

[Jude]

i love how you back up all your inslightful comments with information

If I kill someone and never get caught or charged or convicted, that doesn't make me innocent.

[Reaganista]

i love how you back up all your inslightful comments with information
what the **** do you mean information
you said something completely illogical and crazy and i told you
no more information necessary

[TheClap]

This is about religion. If you're found legally innocent and you really didn't do the crime, you're innocent

Fixed.

[OMGaDINOSAUR]

Outrageous. Stupid law.

[LittlePound]

This is not about religion. If you're legally innocent, you're innocent

Nobody has made it about religion. All i said was whether or not you were convicted of the crime doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you are truly innocent or guilty. A court's ruling on innocent or guilty mean that you will either serve time, or you don't. Just becuae the court rules you guilty doesn't always make you so, there have been wrongful convictions, but what it does mean is that you'll pay for the crime (regardless if you really did it or not).
If you murdered someone and are found innocent by the court, that doesn't mean you're not a murderer, it just means you got away with murder.

[lfantwister]

If I kill someone and never get caught or charged or convicted, that doesn't make me innocent. Legally, it does

what the **** do you mean information
you said something completely illogical and crazy and i told you
no more information necessary
oh sorry what was i thinking. my god will you ever forgive this mistake

Nobody has made it about religion. All i said was whether or not you were convicted of the crime doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you are truly innocent or guilty. A court's ruling on innocent or guilty mean that you will either serve time, or you don't. Just becuae the court rules you guilty doesn't always make you so, there have been wrongful convictions, but what it does mean is that you'll pay for the crime (regardless if you really did it or not).
If you murdered someone and are found innocent by the court, that doesn't mean you're not a murderer, it just means you got away with murder.
Legally, then, I'm innocent. And I won't receive any punishment even if I did
commit the crime. Innocent till proven guilty. It is really not that difficult

[LittlePound]

It is really not that difficult
that's why i'm so amazed you still don't understand what i'm saying.

[lfantwister]

maybe it's the problem with english
honestly, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

[Reaganista]

being found innocent doesn't magically change the past
oh sorry what was i thinking. my god will you ever forgive this mistake
maybe

[WhoDidTheElf]

being found innocent doesn't magically change the past

Your never "found innocent" your just found not guilty. Not guilty =/= Innocent.

[lfantwister]

being found innocent doesn't magically change the past
but it magically changes the future
maybe damn you

[Big Dildo]

In the UK we have had a big influx of eastern europeans over the past few years, mainly Polish. They help fill a hole in the labour market by doing all the jobs that suck (factory work, vegetable picking, manual labour etc), which the unemployed do not want to do. Very often they are harder-working, more skilled and cheaper to employ. This is good for the economy and eastern european workers are vital to many businesses.

[lfantwister]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-immigecon1oct01,0,2945710.story?coll=la-home-headlines