Home-made Drum Dial!

[_Austin_]

Hey guys...

I recently saw a thread on the pearl forum about how to make a drum dial without spending lots of money and decided to test it out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/ausey/Aaa040.jpg

Heres the thread:
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=149843

Heres proof that mine works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRS6vlZJ6XE

And heres an example of where you brits can buy them from
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&item=280025267379&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

Granted, i spent more than the quoted $1.99 in the pearl thread but what i did pay was less than a third of what a drumdial would cost brand new.

Now on to my review of the Home-made drum-dial

I think its quite a valuable tool if used in the right way. Using the drum dial to even out the tuning of a drumhead is what i made this for, Not so i can compare tuning figures with other people.

The dial works perfectly and a little tapping on the hockey puck to get an accurate reading as you are tuning up is required, but thats something i can live with.

I also now find it easy to bring a drumhead to a previous tuning after a head-change. Recording what figures the drumdial displayed before i changed the head helped me achieve this.

Heres how the drum-dial works...
http://www.mikedrums.com/drum%20dial.png

[billdrum]

I have a great home-made drum dial...its called your ear. Try it out sometime!

[_Austin_]

Wow, that was quick!

Can i ask why you dis-like drum-dials?

[the_pure_drummer]

Seems kinda weird just use your ear and find the sound you like ureself without useing machines!

[_Austin_]

Seems kinda weird just use your ear and find the sound you like ureself without useing machines!

I didn't say i tune my drums with it. I said i use it to achieve even tuning and replica tunings after changing heads.

Whats wrong with that?
If a machine makes this process quicker/easier then why not use it?

Anyone who knows how to tune knows that fine tuning can take hours. Most of the time being comsumed by evening out the tension of the head.
A drumdial speeds this process along VERY quickly.

This machine is a 'god send' if you ask me

[DillingerEscp]

thats awesome man, F the naysayers.

thats pretty cool.

[maniac0796]

I aggree with austin. Fine tuning can take ages, and if you can speed it up by identifying the tension, and duplicating it, then why not.

Yes, i aggree, you can rough tune and fine tune with your ears, but why spend more time tuning when you could spend more time playing?

[_Austin_]

Thank you very much!

The original drum-dial i would not pay for... £60 to £70 is a little extensive.

I paid less than £25 for mine and im very happy with it and think its a worthwhile addition to my array of drum stuff

[Win A Rabbit]

I've got nothing against drumdials, I'd just rather not use them. Me personally, I like tuning drums, so that would be like me going from eating a full course meal to ingesting all that in a futuristic, space-age "meal in pill form".

Sure, it gets the job done, but I'd rather work it out myself. I like to see the DIY though, that's always good.

[_Austin_]

Thanks 'win a rabbit' I see where you are coming from and i respect your view on this topic.

A good solid argument, un-like many people on this forum, who dis-like things because they think they should.

[Cocaberry]

Thank you very much!

The original drum-dial i would not pay for... £60 to £70 is a little extensive.

I paid less than £25 for mine and im very happy with it and think its a worthwhile addition to my array of drum stuff

How hard are they to make? You know, you can make a killing selling them to n00bs.

[_Austin_]

Surprisingly easy, if you have a drill with a few drill bits that range in size you'l be golden.

Took me about 10mins to make

Its really is a case of putting the indicator into a drilled hockey puck and Voila!

(I also used a rubber washer to hold the indicator in the same place so i dont get mixed readings)

[goalieman92]

i could make a fortune. it helps that i play hockey and have tons laying around.

[green242]

futuristic, space-age "meal in pill form".

That would be awsome. All the vitamins, minerals, carbs, protein... All summed up in a few pills... I'd do it..

Oh and I'd also use a drum dial as well. You know what'd be an experiment, is to test the evans torque key to see how precise it is.

[Josiah]

Whats wrong with that?
If a machine makes this process quicker/easier then why not use it?

Anyone who knows how to tune knows that fine tuning can take hours. Most of the time being comsumed by evening out the tension of the head.
A drumdial speeds this process along VERY quickly.




Too the first part. I hope you understand that's exactly the attitude putting musicians out of work. Why hire a drummer, when you can use a machine to do it faster/easier?
Shoot why even have a band?

The higher end keyboards can do all the instruments through sampling. It's faster, easier and cheaper.



To the 2nd part.

That's crap. Anyone who knows how to tune can do it fast. I can tune a tom up from no heads to sounding great in less then 4 mins. There are people who do it a LOT faster then I can.



I can understand the use of the drumdial, and it has it's given place. However the temptation to use it, instead of learning to tune, seems like creating a crutch.

Unless you take the thing with you everywhere you go... you'll have to be able to tune by ear.


On top of that, drums are one of the few instruments that have to/can be re-tuned for rooms and envoirnment. This has nothing to do with a drum dial because you HAVE to use your ears and understand how tuning a drum works, how to get what sounds out of it so it will best work in the given environment.

[sLarkin20]

I rather enjoy tuning my drums when I put on a new set of heads, I like trying to get the best sound that I personally can get out of them. Plus you might not always have a drum dial handy when you need it, but you'll always have your ears...except for rare circumstances I suppose...but I see being without a drum dial more often the being without my ears.

[Seafroggys]

i just find it cool that he made this, regardless on the actual usage and the reasoning behind using it. The fact that its homemade is a high score.

[Josiah]

i just find it cool that he made this, regardless on the actual usage and the reasoning behind using it. The fact that its homemade is a high score.


Deffinetly on that account!

I should make one and see how well they compare to what i can do without it.. hahaha

[_Austin_]

Josiah, the way i see it is that the evening the tension of a drum, for me, is a tedious and boring task.

Machines are used to complete tedious jobs and leave time for more important tasks.

Keyboards are being used to replicate drummers, a drumdial is just another means of monitoring the tension of a drumhead. Yes, the similarity is the fact that machines are easier and quicker to use, but no one is losing a job due to me using a drum dial.

Some people, like myself, are not very well experienced in the field of drum tuning and tuning up in 4mins like you say, just isn't realistic. It may be for you, but not everyone is as talented as yourself.

To be totally clear im not trying to replace my ear, because i know i can tune a drum kit using my ear, Just not very quickly. I am merely using a drumdial to assist with my tuning.

What harm am i doing? It can only help

[lmldrummer]

i have a drum dial, i don't completely use it, but i don't have the best ear, so i'll go around to what i think is even, and then use the drum dial, and see if i'm right, hopefully eventually not needing it

[Josiah]

Some people, like myself, are not very well experienced in the field of drum tuning and tuning up in 4mins like you say, just isn't realistic. It may be for you, but not everyone is as talented as yourself.




What harm am i doing? It can only help


I see it has robbing yourself of hte experience, wich you say you lack, in tuning by letting it do it for you.


Now given that, i supose you could learn or train your ears to listen for the tones better using the dial.

[goalieman92]

josiah, leave the kid alone. if he wants to trash his ears let him. u have tried, that's the best u can do.

[lmldrummer]

how is it trashing his ears? just because it's not making them "better", i've never heard someone say or even talk or people losing their hearing because they were tuning drums

[Cocaberry]

Maybe "trash his ears" means "not use his ears." It's a weird way to say it but that's probably it.

[lmldrummer]

i know, but i do like to take things literally, to make people think about what they say before they say it, but you never know, he could have meant trash them

[goalieman92]

what i mean is, if u don't use your tuning ear you will loose it

[Cocaberry]

You can't lose it if you never had it though. :rolleyes:

[lmldrummer]

exactly what i was goin to say

i never had one:upset:

[goalieman92]

then how did you get your drums tuned? u have someone else do it for u?

[lmldrummer]

i also said i use the drum dial for even tunings, i try to do the best, then check it out with the drum dial

still sounds like crap though, only thing i like is my snare and sometimes my bass, and when i get spunky my high tom, but my floor always sounds like ****, i gotta tune sometime before friday for a gig anyway, hope they don't get worse

[Josiah]

read/study prof sounds tuning bible.


having the head evenly tensions is only one aspect to tuning. you ahve to udnerstand the reletaionship of that tension to the drum, and the other head.

also many people don't understand it's technique too.


The abbility to make a drum sound awesome is held more in the hands of the player, then the fact it's tuned perfect and is an amazing drum.

[lmldrummer]

i have read the tuning bible, and use it every time i tune

[some jive turkey]

I have no objections for or against the drum dial,...but I have no experience with using one.

I suppose learning to tune by ear is important for various reasons, but if a tool helps you get there quicker, faster, and more accurately,....why not use it. It's like a ruler,....you can measure about how long something is without it,...or get a more exact measurement with it.

Who knows? The tool may also enable you to develop a more critical ear for tuning without the dial, if you use it in a way to train your ears.

It's cool that you made one though,...I'll give you props for that.:chug:

[Josiah]

i have read the tuning bible, and use it every time i tune

Like actually bust it out when you tune?



The idea is to learn the concepts inside the writing and apply them.


I don't agree with any of the seating crap, other then new heads will stretch inherent to physics, but the seating stuff is crap.


Tuning drums is not hard. Just few people are not lazy enough to spend some time with a tom, really, each drum. And get to know it.

[_Austin_]

I think people mistake that the drumdial is for even tension.

It will not tell you when you have reached the sweet spot of a drum and no matter what machine you use, you will have to find the sweet spot using your ears.

Thats all i will use this drumdial for and all i ever intend to use it for as i believe that is why it was created.

That said, i want to encourage people to try this if they have £20 lying around. But if you do, please realise that this is for even tension, not to get a good sound out of a drum (but this can aid in that process by achieving even tension)

Jos, why do you think the seating part of the tuning bible is crap? i found my drums easier to tune having done exactly what the bible said for seating.

Would you also consider the tuning bible a bit overkill? i see many people and examples of tuning that are so less compilicated than the tuning bible. For example in a magazine, tuning a drum can be summed up in one page!

I suppose tuning should be a personal thing, if you want to get detailed, then do so. But if your sound is achieved by a 'lazy' approach, then do that.

[Pleaseme]

I think you've made a useful piece of equipment here, well done.
I believe that it can be useful in speeding up the process of achieving a completely even surface tension on the skin, which yes is very helpful.
But it's still up to the user to actually decide what the pitch of the skin is going to be, and what tension ths skin will be at each lug.
In a situation where you need to tune or retune either without much time, or indeed in a noisy environment, then this could be a great aid. Especially as you didn't have to pay 60 or 70 quid for something you won't use that often.

And Josiah, why is the seating part crap? Surely if the resin cracks after you've got a tuning, you'll lose that tuning?

[Josiah]

See below. Yes new heads will stretch, but once they are.. they are. You can take them off the drum and put different ones on, etc

The crackign is just the stretching of a new head. Once it's done it's thing, it's done. It's "stretched in".


Jos, why do you think the seating part of the tuning bible is crap? i found my drums easier to tune having done exactly what the bible said for seating.

Would you also consider the tuning bible a bit overkill? i see many people and examples of tuning that are so less compilicated than the tuning bible. For example in a magazine, tuning a drum can be summed up in one page!

I suppose tuning should be a personal thing, if you want to get detailed, then do so. But if your sound is achieved by a 'lazy' approach, then do that.



Because of the nature of how things work. The heads do not have a memory to them. They will conform to any bearing edge when tensioned.


Also I use several sets of heads. I change them out for the gig/music. Been doing it for years!! Getting awesome drum sounds and comments too.

I don't bother with any of that seating crap. So long as the head is on even, the bearing edge is not dirty and the head is not dirty on the underside... they will conform to the edge when tensioned just as much as any "seating" will.

Besides that, after a few smacks, that head is pressed onto the edge with incredible force.

Granted heads stretch and change with humidty, heat, etc.. so re-tuning is nessicary, but this whole virgin head on the bearing edge and seating it like some fine suit.. nah, that's hogwash.

[_Austin_]

Hmm... thats interesting.

What do you think of leaving heads overnight to conform to a bearing edge?

Personally i have never done it because im an impatient bugger, can it have any advantages over not bothereing to leave a new head overnight before tuning?

[Pleaseme]

Yeah that's all I do to 'break in' a new head- get the resin to crack before tuning. Anything to do with the bearing edge is, as you said, pretty much unnecessary.

[Josiah]

Hmm... thats interesting.

What do you think of leaving heads overnight to conform to a bearing edge?

Personally i have never done it because im an impatient bugger, can it have any advantages over not bothereing to leave a new head overnight before tuning?


That's absolute crap too.


Session players have been putting on new heads in the studio for like decades... guitarist put on new strings, etc


Once the head is tensioned, it's there. It may stretch a bit from playing.. but duh you are smacking it really friggin hard! And a lot!


The overnight hting is just dumb, think about it.. the tension is there, it's there, it doesn't change. It just sits there, there's no activity what so ever. Non, it just sits there.

1 hour, 1 day, 20 mins.. it's not goign to make a difference.


If anything, it's really hogwash when you start to talk about night time temperatures dropping, so the head is now going through both humidity and temperature changes. Wich means it may or may not be moving.

Etc



Buy heads. Make sure the edge is clean, shoot even add a lil wax to the edge if has some imperfections. Tune the drum up and have at it. Sure, it'll stretch and you may need to retune after a bit - just like guitar strings.

[Drummer300btx]

I can tune a tom up from no heads to sounding great in less then 4 mins. There are people who do it a LOT faster then I can.

video?? lol

[Jezen]

On top of that, drums are one of the few instruments that have to/can be re-tuned for rooms and envoirnment. This has nothing to do with a drum dial because you HAVE to use your ears and understand how tuning a drum works, how to get what sounds out of it so it will best work in the given environment.


Out of your entire argument Jo, this is by far your strongest point.

[Josiah]

video?? lol


There's a video from DW of their factory.. ahh I forget, one of those promotional videos.

They got a shot of the guys tuning the drums up before they go out.


They put the drums on basically a tall stool basically, and spin it. Then they tap the edge with one hand and use a drum key in the other. They tune the drum up as it's spinning, it's very fast. Larger toms go down in less then a minute in that video.

I adpoted this method myself using the drum stool. It kills the other head, the drum spins in front of you (lotta time in jsut movin the drum), and you just get used to tapping and listening for the pitches.

[pitchfork]

Drum dials aren't accurate because heads aren't always completely even.

Humans are more reliable than machines. Why do you think people hire bands for live shows? because machines very easily go wrong.

[_Austin_]

Drum dials aren't accurate because heads aren't always completely even.

Humans are more reliable than machines. Why do you think people hire bands for live shows? because machines very easily go wrong.

No, drum dials are accurate. And Heads don't fluctuate in thicknesses. Remo/Evans and other drumhead companies have a VERY strict screening process for heads that aren't up to scratch.

Also, machines aren't hired for gigs because they are MACHINES!!

Humans are not more reliable than machines. Machines do a set task and nothing else, you are confusing random windows crashes to dedicated machines.

Ever had a calculator give you an incorrect answer?

Don't post crap

[Cocaberry]

DrumDials aren't accurate on snare sides that have snarebeds and are pretty much useless for tuning bass drums.

[_Austin_]

^thats true, snare beds do affect the reading given on lugs next to snare beds.

I havent tried tuning my bass yet though, it sounds good as it is :)

[Pleaseme]

Bass drums are easier to tune that toms, I think it would be the most useful for toms than anything else.

[pitchfork]

No, drum dials are accurate. And Heads don't fluctuate in thicknesses. Remo/Evans and other drumhead companies have a VERY strict screening process for heads that aren't up to scratch.

Also, machines aren't hired for gigs because they are MACHINES!!

Humans are not more reliable than machines. Machines do a set task and nothing else, you are confusing random windows crashes to dedicated machines.

Ever had a calculator give you an incorrect answer?

Don't post crap

Any soundman in the business will tell you machines are less reliable than humans becuase in short, machines are thick, they have no intelligence.

Tuning by ear is cheaper and more accurate and it is also part of drumming.

[Josiah]

Ever had a calculator give you an incorrect answer?



Haha actually yes. It's not uncommon.


But true enough the heads don't vary in thickness. Though the drumdial does assume a very level adn good ebaring edge. If you are working with some worn edges, then some issues may arise, tuning would be tricky either way.


Now that I think of it, that would mean the dial wouldn't work on fiberskyn heads as they actually do ary greatly in thickness.

[trysthedrummer]

Mm some good points here.

I can't be arsed to mess around with a dial, won't probably get one. I can't tune drums though in under 4 minutes, I'm still learning as I don't do it a great deal.

[Seafroggys]

it'd be nice to have one if I had money to burn, but its not a top priority for me right now. My ears are fine.

[Brokensticks]

I never bothered to tune my drums yet, once I buy some better heads than these stock ones I will take a lot of time to do it. I am waiting for my 14" Floortom to arrive so I can buy all new heads for all drums at the same time.

On the drum dial thing, I guess it can help, but I don't think they are really needed.

[Cocaberry]

Hmm... Since we're talking about tuners/tuning here..
This is interesting:
http://www.circularscience.com/

"Resotune"

I wonder how accurate that is.

[MeaninglessPhoto]

Hmm... Since we're talking about tuners/tuning here..
This is interesting:
http://www.circularscience.com/

"Resotune"

I wonder how accurate that is.

Its probably a POS. Its not worth the 400 bucks.

[Cocaberry]

Yeah, I know how to tune by ear and stuff. Just ran across that and thought it was interesting. Certainly looks like it could be more accurate than a Drumdial.

[MeaninglessPhoto]

Yeah, I know how to tune by ear and stuff. Just ran across that and thought it was interesting. Certainly looks like it could be more accurate than a Drumdial.

Definately. The drumdial has always looked a little shifty to me. But the tuner that you posted looks/sounds like theres too many buttons and **** for it to be completely usuable.