Music piracy

[philly96]

Introduction

The hypothesis I have chosen to investigate is:
‘To what extent does music piracy affect Adelaide bands?’

The reason for choosing this topic is that I have a strong interest in music. Also that people are constantly saying that bands are severely disadvantaged by others downloading their music.

The significance of this issue is that in 2004 album sales decreased by 4.75% according to the Australian Record Industry Association (ARIA). The overall recorded music sales, which includes albums, singles and music DVD’s, fell by 6% to $607 million in that year .

I believe this is a major concern to the music industry as it will impact on local as well as international bands. As it can surely impact on the way people feel about making music, that they have no advantage over the consumer as they could get their music for free. However, this statistic may not reflect the whole Australian record industry.
Focusing questions
1. How much of an impact does music piracy have on Adelaide bands?
2. Who in Adelaide downloads music by Adelaide bands?
3. What impact has music piracy had on the general music industry?

I found a vast amount of information from the internet for both the primary and secondary sources. These included articles from the music industry and an interview with band members from ‘Blackdog’ and ‘JB Smak’. In addition I surveyed 20 people from the internet as well as handing them out.

The survey was the same for both the internet and handing them out directly; this was to get a better understanding of people’s opinions. Giving the surveys out over the internet meant that I could include another way to get information. The youth was targeted due to the fact that they would be more computer literate. Also they would be more inclined to listen to different genres of music.












Discussion of findings


1. How much of an impact does music piracy have on Adelaide bands?

It is clear that CD sales are plummeting dramatically, for example CD sales decreased by 4.75% in 2004. One of the reasons why it has plummeted so badly could be because of music piracy. However, music piracy is not a new discovery as it was happening in the 1970’s and 1980’s by people trading tapes. People would tape a record or concert and trade them with others; this was one way bands would get more exposure.

Another way of getting exposure is due to websites or software programs. One of these vital websites is MySpace which allows bands and people to make a web page. Bands can put four of their songs onto the web page so that people can listen for free. However, MySpace recently have announced that they will introduce a paying system where bands can sell their music for a price they want it to be sold at . The band member from ‘Blackdog’ stated, ‘MySpace lets people see what ‘good’ bands think of little bands. And this may give a band a better opportunity for a show or a record signing.’ Also people can put a song of a band they like which will allow for others to hear music they may not hear before. This may give little, local bands more exposure which they may not otherwise have.

There are no statistics showing that downloading Adelaide bands has an advantage or disadvantage. However, as there are not many recognized bands in Adelaide it could be assumed that downloading is having an impact. Although, due to websites such as MySpace people from around the world can hear them and they might be successful in that part of the world.

2. Who in Adelaide downloads music by Adelaide bands?

Music in Adelaide does not have a lot of publicity. The member from ‘Blackdog’ states that, ‘The more people who hear our music the better and often these ‘piracies’ led to more gigs, which pay a lot better than CD sales.’ This shows that downloading can be useful to get their music across to the audience which they want. He also says that gigs can pay hundreds, occasionally a thousand dollars, but usually it would be a hundred and fifty dollars. CD sales aren’t very important to them as they do not make much more money. This is mainly because their biggest exposure is due to ‘word of mouth’. Although, this probably does not apply to every band in Adelaide as most of them have different ways they become successful.








Pie graph yes:5 (24%) no:16 (76%)















The pie graph above shows the results from the people surveyed. It clearly shows that a vast majority do not download music by Adelaide bands. One of the reasons was that publicity for Adelaide bands are minimal. They would have to make the effort to know who is playing and where, instead of being informed by them. The majority of people that did the survey responded that the publicity is poor as they may not know any or they are generally quite disgraceful. This shows that publicity would have to be improved to ensure the bands improve.

However, the bass player from ‘JB Smak’ implied that downloading is a godsend for the music public. He said, ‘People are now listening to a wider variety of bands then ever. Many underground hits have come via downloading. It is generally agreed: Yes downloading can cost the record companies money. But that money is made up in the fact that they are selling a wider range of CD’s.’ This shows that downloading can give bands an opportunity to their music to bigger range of people. Although, in the survey people were saying that the music played in Adelaide does not appeal due to the types of genres.


3. What impact has music piracy had on the general music industry?

Music downloads have had a massive impact in general. The industry has to realize that lots of people download music to get an idea of what is happening. Bands have to change with an expanding industry for the internet is a new medium that bands can get their music to large mass of people. The band Bel Auburn is putting their whole new album onto the internet. In a statement as to why they did this they said, ‘The idea is: Now that you can get-for-free whatever music you want, why in the world would you try to sell it before your product is considered valuable in any way? ...Once people think you are good, then sell away.’ This means that they can allow the public to decide if they are good or not. That they see an advantage in getting their album out for free before it has been released.

There has been one music piracy prosecution in Australia. This happened in December, 2003. The three youths in question were found guilty, however, the Judge gave what seemed to be a very lenient sentence. Two of these youths were given eighteen months jail while the other youth got only two hundred hours community service. This seems rather lenient as the estimated value of the music was $60 million. This will only have a negative affect on the record industry as it will be seen that stealing and illegally trading music is not a very big crime. That stealing $60 million from a company will get a maximum prison sentence of eighteen months if found guilty.

British alternative band Arctic Monkeys recently got the fastest selling debut of all time in the UK. The reason was that they gave out free demos of their music, which people put onto their computer. These people then put it on the internet for free so everyone could listen. This shows that music piracy has its advantages because ‘word of mouth’ is vital to selling music. This could be effective to bands in Adelaide as they need exposure. One way could be putting their music onto the internet where everyone can listen for free or a small price.

The internet is a global source which may prove vital to unknown bands. Even if they don’t become successful in their home town or even country they become successful in another part of the world. Success not unlike the Arctic Monkeys can be achieved anywhere, as the bass player from ‘JB Smak’ states, ‘An Australian band could achieve success in this way. A band from ANYWHERE could achieve it because the internet bursts global boundaries. It is a world of music out there!’ This backs up the claim that the Arctic Monkeys were not a one off, that any band in any country could get the success they got.

[philly96]

Conclusion

This shows that the music industry has to customize with a rapidly changing market. That music piracy is both negative and positive. However, with time I think it will become more positive than negative.

Websites such as MySpace allow people to hear other bands for free. This gives people the chance to hear smaller, local bands that they may not otherwise have heard. With the announcement of them selling their music for the price they want to pay it is clear that they have opened their eyes to suit the demand of the market. However, bands do not have to sell their music if they do not want to. It will give them publicity that they have been craving for as well as the money that they need to become successful.

Adelaide bands can become successful due to music piracy. However, as the survey suggests that the youth want music that would appeal to them first. The youth of Adelaide are off-put by the bands as they do not know any good ones which may be due to the lack of publicity and exposure. When the publicity and exposure improves I feel that local bands will rapidly improve.

The most negative impact that music downloads is the sentence they would get if they get caught downloading. For example, $60 million of stealing music would only relate to a sentence of about eighteen months in jail. This will have the biggest impact on local music, as they feel that even if they do catch someone stealing their music hardly anything would be done.

I think that the best way bands will get exposure and publicity is due to websites. The music industry has to realize that CD sales do not play as an important role as it use to. That music piracy has not been uncommon, it has been around since the 1970’s and 1980’s where people would tape a record or bootleg a live concert. The internet gives local bands access to the whole world which will give them the exposure and publicity they need to become successful.

I feel that the only way the music industry will be successful is if they show appreciation to music downloads. CD sales are now insignificant, as in the past they were a way to show if a band was successful or not. Record companies should look at the future of music instead of reminiscing about the past. The only way they can look at the future is through people buying music via the internet.

Words: 1 860

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

I think smaller bands benefit a lot from filesharing, and bigger bands should just go die if they give a damn, because they're rich enough in the first place.

[Huber]

With the price of CDs, I think most people buy all they can afford anyways. They download music they can't afford, and at least that way the band gains fans and will probably get them ticket sales.

[G_Mac07]

With the price of CDs, I think most people buy all they can afford anyways. They download music they can't afford, and at least that way the band gains fans and will probably get them ticket sales.

I think Huber just hit the nail on the head.

[MrSigma]

shut up lars

[philly96]

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with what Huber. I would think anyway they can get fans and ticket sales they would be happy with.

[MrSigma]

music isn't suppost to be about money. I would be thrilled if I started makeing my own songs and all of a sudden people were downloading them off kazaa.

[Amit]

except you can't make music without money

or to approach it a little differently

you're right; the music itself has nothing to do with money

but the musicians need money to live, survive, thrive, and make the music

that being said, music "piracy" is a idiotic and neurotic term used by an antiquated industry that is almost universally made up of greedy middle men desperately trying to maintain their control over the mainstream into buying bull****

the mainstream are getting smarter; they still might like the bull**** but they are realizing that it really isn't worth $20 to buy an album just for two or three singles

[Chu]

shut up lars
RTFA.

Edit: Not the TS's article (Good read btw :thumb: ), but the article which explains WHY Lars sued Napster, I'm sure you can use www.google.com right?

[the2stranger]

99% of all the bands don't get a dime for their music, they have to buy all their own equipement and recording.
So saying they are not getting the money is ridicilous, they wouldn't get ut either if the people bought their stuff.
Only the mainstreamartists make big money and they shoudln't complain.

I support artists by buying cd's, wearing their shirts and going to gigs.
I do my fair share, even though the band won't make a living out of it.
I try to support music, not the musicINDUSTRY.

[philly96]

I didnt have enough time to find anything on napster and lars.

[the2stranger]

I think it's pretty cool you did this already. :)

[philly96]

Thanks. It was pretty bad because I did it quickly. But oh well.

[Chu]

Nah, I think it's good that you didn't include that in your article.

A lot of people seem to misinterpret that whole fiasco, whether that's because they've been told differently, or it's just their own opinion on the matter, I don't really know.
But it annoys me when people just flame Lars, especially when they obviously don't know, or haven't checked the legitimacy of what they've been told.

I'm not defending Lars by any measure...

[Benzum]

well cds will become a thing of the past in the next 10 years or so anyway

99% of all the bands don't get a dime for their music, they have to buy all their own equipement and recording

yep and let's not forget the bands who play and write music just beacuse they love to do it and don't make raising bucket loads of cash their top priority

live performance is more important than cd sales
a lot of that read was pointing out the obvious
but good stuff, well done

+++

[philly96]

Yeah, I didn't really know about the lars incident, so I didn't include it. I would have if I had the some kind of monster book.

[MetalOz]

Darn, I thought this thread was going to be about Running Wild

Aarrrgh matey. Talk like a pirate day coming soon. Good read though :)

[Shadius]

I think smaller bands benefit a lot from filesharing, and bigger bands should just go die if they give a damn, because they're rich enough in the first place.

I agree, but I think the bands somewhere in between can suffer a lot, or, if they happen to appeal to a mass market like the Arctic Monkeys, become huge. The majority though will lose sales due to filesharing. Live shows though are more likely to attract more people due to exposure to the music, bought or not. So I suppose bands should invest in their live shows and make as much money as they can from those.

[Dragon_Prince]

If CD's were cheaper I'd buy more, and that will go for a lot of people. 20 euro for a cd is just much, I have to work 5 hours for that.

[loathed]

If CD's were cheaper I'd buy more, and that will go for a lot of people. 20 euro for a cd is just much, I have to work 5 hours for that.

same feeling...

[loathed]

i agree, if cds were cheaper, i'd buy them

err, **** i double posted...something happened to my firefox and i couldnt see the last post earlier, sorry

[tk421]

cd price i dont think is bad, mostly because i dont care how much it is. If i like a band a lot i want to buy the cd see the sleeve, the lyrics, the art work in them, just the feeling of owning the cd they made and helping the band. It may feel like you arent helping them, they probibly dont even need the money you spend on the cd, but just the act of getting their cd that they made and put all this time into and picked out the art work is a great feeling.

[Shattered_Future]

The MUSIC industry is bloody piracy in itself. Who the hell charges 20 bucks for a CD? People aren't buying CDs because they COST so damn much, and the majority of stuff that is very heavily promoted isn't very unique, original, or even good. I'm well aware there's exceptions, but I think if the record industries REALLY want to make money, they should lower CD costs.

[Anglachel]

I think that if you want me to go buy your CDs rather than download them, they shouldnt be 25 dollars each.

[Shattered_Future]

Exactly. I think cds should cost 5 bucks...4 to the artist, 1 to the record label. And then record labels shouldn't charge innumberable amounts to record songs.

[Anglachel]

Exactly. I think cds should cost 5 bucks...4 to the artist, 1 to the record label. And then record labels shouldn't charge innumberable amounts to record songs.
of course, greed will not allow that.

[Silenius]

Personally, with the music I make, I dont give a damn if you would get the mp3s of the music for free. If you want to buy the cd and support, or just like owning a hard copy than that's cool too. But I think the whole selling mp3s is ridiculous. Why pay for the mp3s when you can buy a good 'ole cd. And, also back to the theme, notice how only the artists that are already rich usually bitch about piracy.

Piracy = 30$ for a Burzum cd. ;)

[Anglachel]

Personally, with the music I make, I dont give a damn if you would get the mp3s of the music for free. If you want to buy the cd and support, or just like owning a hard copy than that's cool too. But I think the whole selling mp3s is ridiculous. Why pay for the mp3s when you can buy a good 'ole cd. And, also back to the theme, notice how only the artists that are already rich usually bitch about piracy.

Piracy = 30$ for a Burzum cd. ;)
123456789

[RiceMonster]

Personally, with the music I make, I dont give a damn if you would get the mp3s of the music for free. If you want to buy the cd and support, or just like owning a hard copy than that's cool too. But I think the whole selling mp3s is ridiculous. Why pay for the mp3s when you can buy a good 'ole cd. And, also back to the theme, notice how only the artists that are already rich usually bitch about piracy.

Piracy = 30$ for a Burzum cd. ;)
Yeah, I remember we had this discussion on slsk. When I finally release some of my material, I don't give a damn if people download it. Infact, I give people my (yet to be released) demo for free on mp3. If these people never want to pay for a copy ever, I don't care. As long as people are listening to it, that's all that matters to me. The only reason I want money in relation to music is what Atman said. So I can play it.

[philly96]

Yeah, thats what I wrote. The record companies shouldn't look at the past by the number of CD's they sell in stores but by other means. If downloading is the biggest way they make money then so be it. Gigs get a lot more then CD sales anyway. And music piracy lets bands get exposure which in turn gets more gigs. So I agree music piracy is good for most bands.

[Shattered_Future]

of course, greed will not allow that.

I never said it would ever happen, it would just be nice if people would remember what music is all about.

See, what I'd do is I'll show people a website with some of my music on it. If they enjoy it, they can choose to buy the stuff I've recorded.

[Freezing Moon]

A local band here (which sucks, but that's not the point) recently went through the process of recording their demo in a professional studio, printing 300 copies, doing artwork, etc. They ended up selling their CD's for 7 dollars, which was about as little as they could could charge and end up breaking even/making a bit of profit if they sold all of their CDs.

I think that is a reasonable price, but none of that is going to a label. They're making about $2 per CD.

Anyway, my favorite albums are usually out of print, highly limited and difficult to find, demos, or by bands that couldn't care less about making money off of their music. I don't feel bad about downloading, but I wish CD's were cheaper so it would be more worth it to pay for them.

[sonicst0rm]

It would help if music store had some of the damn cds I was looking for. I couldn't find a Warmen, Elvenking or Ensiferum CD anywhere. I checked Borders and the local music store. At the local one, which has a "huge" selection (of mostly junk, I might add), didn't even have a Porcupine tree CD, and they only had 1 Opeth CD!

Whereas torrentspy has anything I need and I can have it in 10 minutes. I wanted to support the artists by buying their CDs (cause I admit I do download a lot) except I can't find them! And imports cost upwards of $30 or 40 sometimes, that's ridiculous. I can't find the band shirts I want either at stores...

I can't order online yet because I don't have my own credit card.

Also, i don't like iTunes. I also hate all sony CDs. my mom gets some from BMG music (sony), and when I try to put them on my computer, they had that rootkit thing and they also have DRM so I can't do crap with them! It sucks. i like to rip my discs with LAME, but it only works in WMP or iTunes because of the DRM... freaking lame. I hate wmp and iTunes. It's cool to have the album and artwork, except I put it in my computer once, rip it, and put it on my ipod and never see the cd again. my car doesn't have a cd player anyway.

CDs are a waste, too much of a hassle to even rip them now because that "anti piracy" drm bs ruined it for me and a lot of people. i don't think I'm going to every buy a CD or music again, only go to shows.

[philly96]

Did you actually realise that Opeth used to be on Sony? Anyway, I slightly agree with the last comment. That imports should be cheaper but it would be hard to sell them at normal price. CD's at a store near me is cheap anyway. Websites are heaps important to bands now-a-days which is what Shattered commented on. Most bands that have a webiste also have a few songs. This will make more exposure and people will go to their shows and maybe buy CDs.

[Sleepy]

Music 'piracy' helps keep out-of-print music alive. It also helps spread artists' names to places where they simply could not have gone.

I download as many albums as I can. I then give those albums to friends and acquaintances. Those friends and acquaintances then buy shirts, attend shows, a few have even picked up physical copies of CDs they've liked.

My friend's band (who I bass for) will probably be making a 4 or 6 song EP within the next couple months in a home studio.

I'll be upping that EP to the DU as soon as it's done. That would help the band more than hurt it.

[Luc214]

With the price of CDs, I think most people buy all they can afford anyways. They download music they can't afford, and at least that way the band gains fans and will probably get them ticket sales.

Damn straight. I I had a job I'd probably buy more CDs.

I mean I get $40 a month allowance, and CDs are around $15 a pop. So if I spent all my money on CDs, I'd only be able to buy about 2 a month. And then all my money's gone.

Also, some music I listen to I don't think I like enough that I'd buy it.

[Freezing Moon]

Also, some music I listen to I don't think I like enough that I'd buy it.

With Opeth in your avatar, I'm not suprised.

[sr800bkBassist]

lots of reform needs to be made.
it's not like if we just start buying all our music again, suddenly the bands will suddenly benefit. the record labels already ruin it for the bands. if the record companies change, i'll have insentive. but keep in mind, most of the money you pay goes to the label.

and plus, i buy when i can.
but when i can't, i download. i see it like this.
if i have money i buy. i feel good. i get to hear the music.
if i don't have money, i can either not ever listen to the music, or download it.
one way, the band doesn't get money (because i have none) and i don't get to hear music.
the other way, the band doesn't get money, but at least i can hear the music.

[sr800bkBassist]

i'd also like to add, if one day i heard a million people downloaded a song i wrote, i'd be so amazingly happy.
maybe i'm just stupid for appreciating that.

[PepsiMetal]

I read somewhere that artists usually make a $2-3 per every CD sold, which is about 10-20% of the sale if CD costs $15. If people download music, then artist makes even less than that. I think artists should make about 90% of the CD sales, and rest should go to recording companies and all other people involved, and then maybe lower the price of a CD to $5 or so.

[MrSigma]

just record your own cds and sell them. And music isn't about money, who cares if someone listens to your music without paying.

[Permanent Solution]

I read somewhere that artists usually make a $2-3 per every CD sold, which is about 10-20% of the sale if CD costs $15. If people download music, then artist makes even less than that. I think artists should make about 90% of the CD sales, and rest should go to recording companies and all other people involved, and then maybe lower the price of a CD to $5 or so.

You read wrong. Most artists get pennies, if even, on each record sale.

[philly96]

Yeah, I would doubt most bands get a lot of money from CD sales. Especially if they were signed to a big record company. Smaller, independent companies would give more money to the bands, I imagine anyway. Plus bands will probably get more money due to downloading in the future, its just not happening at this very moment. Because websites will make people buy songs or albums for a certain price. Which would give the band a bigger cut and more say in how they get. They will also get more exposure when this happens.

[sr800bkBassist]

yeah smaller companies tend to be more generous. i know Plan-it X sells CDs for $5, gives almost all the money to the band, and only takes like $1 out of every album to sustain the label.

[Oblique]

I'm probably the biggest music pirate in my area. I have 850 cds, only owning about 100 of them. I don't nessescarily think its ok, but otherwise I would have never discovered half the bands I listen to now. And when I have money, I do buy cds that I think are worth the money.

[Crickets On A Plane]

yeah smaller companies tend to be more generous. i know Plan-it X sells CDs for $5, gives almost all the money to the band, and only takes like $1 out of every album to sustain the label.

That's how it should be.

[pate]

I'm probably the biggest music pirate in my area. I have 850 cds, only owning about 100 of them. I don't nessescarily think its ok, but otherwise I would have never discovered half the bands I listen to now. And when I have money, I do buy cds that I think are worth the money.


...I have 1100 and own 150. There's always going to be somebody who has more stuff than you.

I also agree with Dylan completely.

[philly96]

Yeah, theres a place that has a section for local bands. It may be small but they sell them for about $10 at the most. The bands are reasonably good. So I guess smaller companies sell the CDs for cheaper then bigger companies.

[Oblique]

I said "in my area". I know several people on the internet that have way more than I do. My harddrive just cant support that much data and I usually only get cds that I actually have some interest in.

[Crickets On A Plane]

I have several hundred albums. Own, like a tenth of em.

If it wasn't for mass pirating, I'd still listen to a steady diet of As I Lay Dying, Killswitch, Mudvayne and Korn.

Instead, I'm rocking out to some Moonspell now. \m/

[philly96]

I own about 90 CDs. I dont download but its mainly because I own a laptop and they crash easy. Plus my internet quota isnt very big and its slightly immoral. Not as immoral as the media and record companies make it out to be.

[Crickets On A Plane]

Pirating = immoral? What the hell...... Go away hippy

Laptops crash if you suck @ life/internetz/computers

[Charlie Manson]

Music piracy made me the man I am today.

[philly96]

Damn it, everyone's calling me a hippy today. No, laptops are just silly. That is why they crash.

[Oblique]

being a hippie isnt all bad. the best weed i ever got was from a hippie, not to mention the acid:smoke:

[philly96]

Fair enough. I agree hippies are pretty cool. Just today I went briefly to a peace thing and my family and neighbours called me a 'tree hugger'. Oh well. I went to listen to Jefferson Airplane. Hehehehe, I didnt really.

[Crickets On A Plane]

Music piracy made me the man I am today.

It's given me great inner strength. I cannot agree more with Charlie Manson here.

It's shown me, you can be more than a seeder! You can be a leecher!

[Oblique]

long live bittorrents

[wrongz]

i think music piracy is a good thing

[Crickets On A Plane]

long live bittorrents

heil!


Viva FunkySouls too That's the best source of music ever

[Oblique]

FunkySouls? Where do I find this?

[Crickets On A Plane]

You may google this amazing forum.

http://forum.funkysouls.com/index.php?s=&act=SF&f=36

[Oblique]

you should check out http://www.kerrazy-torrents.net

although you have to register before you can even see the torrent forums, that site is great and its free.

btw, whats up with all those wierd characters on that site? I have no idea what they say and I'm trying to register.

[Crickets On A Plane]

Russian good sir.

The register option is top right, I believe. Just open each one of them in a new tab until you get it. I forget which it is.

I only use torrents for appz & games. Mostly funkysouls for music, since I find anything on there. slsk for other music

[Oblique]

thanks man I will definatly check this out.

but is there any way to change it to english?

[Crickets On A Plane]

thanks man I will definatly check this out.

but is there any way to change it to english?

Thread titles, and everything vital is in english. The search feature (members) lower right, is "select forum to search" then the line above it "example"

English is in a beta phase, I believe

[sr800bkBassist]

i wanna make a movie called MP3 Pirates of the Carribean.

it'd just be a couple kids sitting around all day downloading Whitesnake.

[Oblique]

cool

this seems to be a russian version of kerrazytorrents.

good stuff

[Crickets On A Plane]

cool

this seems to be a russian version of kerrazytorrents.

good stuff

Err no. They have torrents, however! It's the forum that matters. Search a band, click the "bre" or w/e to reach the most recent page. Start most recent(far down) and snag the upload links.

^_^

btw. Almost everyone speaks english on there. It's not really a russian forum

[philly96]

i wanna make a movie called MP3 Pirates of the Carribean.

it'd just be a couple kids sitting around all day downloading Whitesnake.

Eww, Whitesnake. The idea would a lot better if you hadnt said Whitesnake.

[sr800bkBassist]

Eww, Whitesnake. The idea would a lot better if you hadnt said Whitesnake.

hahahahaha i know, i just thought it'd add to the absurdity.

[philly96]

Some liking Whitesnake is rather absurd. Although, I have to admit I am a fanboy of Deep Purple.

[lightningmetal666]

Most of the bands that I like, I've gotten into from using a P2P network. To me, a P2P was like a god-send because as a kid, I was really broke (and for the most part still am) but I could still get into the metal scene and I've gotten to listen to some very talented bands.

I think Lars probably had a good point, but was an *** as far as going about it was concerned.

In fairness (and this is coming from a fellow musicians point of view) we do need to eat and sleep and have gear to record and all that, and currently most of a musicians income comes from publishing rights of cds. Ticket sales aren't as big a part of their income as cd sales.

Also keep in mind the amount that the musicians have to PAY the music labels when repaying advances that the labels have made to the bands.

for example: Record label X advance's $500,000 (the number is usually in the millions for bigger acts like Metallica) to band Y to make a new record.

ALL THAT MONEY HAS TO BE PAID BACK TO THE LABEL, AND THE LABEL GETS THIS MONEY BACK LONG BEFORE THE BAND EVER GETS PAID.

Oh, btw, the band gets 5-10% of the advance (to divide evenly mind you) for personal uses while the rest of the money goes to the producer, sound engineer, manager, Studio, etc. (and major labels require the best of everything, meaning THEY choose the producer, studio, sound engineer, etc.)

So the bands aren't quite as rich as most ppl think. Though I can't deny that Lars has enough money to buy his entire neighborhood (which he did just so he could have peace and quiet) he doesn't have the residual income to keep living without the royalties from the music.

[Luc214]

heil!


Viva FunkySouls too That's the best source of music ever

Hell yeah, I get half my music from funky souls now, thanks to you.

[philly96]

I disagree partly with what lightningmetal666 said. The bigger bands choose their producers I would imagine. The smaller ones may have a lot limited say. I talked to one person that said gigs/ticket sales are more important. Which I quoted in the investigation. But I think this would be limited to their genre and success.

[rata]

i know a band here who are very famous but still has to get a day job just to support themeselves....

[pate]

Agalloch are stars of the metal world, but all work full time jobs.

[sonicst0rm]

The most I've spent on music was for the 300gb hard drive to hold my mp3s

[sr800bkBassist]

Agalloch are stars of the metal world, but all work full time jobs.

exactly. it's not impossible to be in a band and still hold a job.

Defiance, Ohio personally put up every CD and EP they've ever recorded up for free download on their site, only play free shows, and they sell all their CD's for $5/$6 (even though you can download them for free). yet they still manage to spend more time doing non-profit community and charity work than they do at a job.

if they can sustain themselves, i'm sure other people can. you just have to realize that the mansion will have to wait.

[rata]

well, if you got a family to feed a house to pay, dont forget the water, the electricity, taxes and all.... i dont want to end up on the charity section.hehe

[philly96]

Yeah, I guess. Musicians would have it hard in this day of age.

[lightningmetal666]

Yeah, I guess. Musicians would have it hard in this day of age.

That's why most of us have a different job that's not even related to music. :(


Oh and regarding my comments on labels, it is true that bigger acts get more say in who produces and where they record, but not that much. Not every band is as big as metallica, and the labels are claming that piracy affects their entire market not just the big name bands.

[philly96]

Then if music piracy is so bad for bands how would the Arctic Monkeys have go to be so huge? Also why would bands be giving out their music for free on either their website or myspace or something similar if piracy was so bad?

[philly96]

Give me more comments!

[rata]

Then if music piracy is so bad for bands how would the Arctic Monkeys have go to be so huge? Also why would bands be giving out their music for free on either their website or myspace or something similar if piracy was so bad?

is there any band outthere that gives their entire album for free:confused: .... i mean bands as famous as the arctic monkeys or bigger...

[philly96]

Bel Auburn did. I even quoted it in my investigation. They may not be big but they put their whole album on their website for free. I have even listened to the whole album, its remarkably good.

[rata]

Bel Auburn did. I even quoted it in my investigation. They may not be big but they put their whole album on their website for free. I have even listened to the whole album, its remarkably good.


i knew a couple of bands who put an entire album on their site but their virtually uknown...

[philly96]

Eh, well it still means that bands have put their whole albums onto the net for free.

[pate]

Heathen has both of their full lenghts for download on their site, and Anacrusis has several releases for download.

[stinger]

i have a 300ish CD collection, all because of 'illegal' downloading, if i didnt hear bands illegally im 100% sure my CD collection wouldnt even be a quarter of the size,

also according to i-tunes i have 1300 odd albums on my computer, so thats roughly 1000 i have illegally, has it hurt the industry? i doubt it, i wouldnt have even heard these bands that i have been to see live, or bought other albums by if it was for illegally downloading their stuff in the first place,

[pate]

Exactly. You know which albums are worth your money.

[AA-12]

I think smaller bands benefit a lot from filesharing, and bigger bands should just go die if they give a damn, because they're rich enough in the first place.

Yep. If music is done for money, then it's worthless in my eyes.

[Stormrider]

Exactly. I think cds should cost 5 bucks...4 to the artist, 1 to the record label. And then record labels shouldn't charge innumberable amounts to record songs.

Then how will the store selling the cd make money to pay rent/employees, ect ?

I don't mind buying cd's. Yes, they are expensive, but I don't go like "ooo, 25$, that's a lot" after buying an album...I download, though I plan on buying a lot of the stuff I've downloaded. Sooner or later.

[Relmar]

Look now... stealing is right for the wrong reasons. Its all good till you get caught, y'know? Thats why I believe priacy is wrong. The government should hire iron golems to stomp the computers of people who upload illegally. You know you can't get arrested for stealing something under 5 sents? So yeah, I stole a lot of gum. But if people claim music stuffs is worth five sents than we can like get a majority rule from the government and make it totally legal? Most artists have a lot fo money, so its usually the better known one ppl download. And usually adults have enuff cense in them to support up and coming artists. For these reasons I believe piracy is moral and correct.

[cadencethefire]

99% of all the bands don't get a dime for their music, they have to buy all their own equipement and recording.
So saying they are not getting the money is ridicilous, they wouldn't get ut either if the people bought their stuff.
Only the mainstreamartists make big money and they shoudln't complain.

I support artists by buying cd's, wearing their shirts and going to gigs.
I do my fair share, even though the band won't make a living out of it.
I try to support music, not the musicINDUSTRY.

i wouldn't say 99% man, i'm sure you're just trying to get a point but a lot of artists don't really pay for their equipment. I think your perception of the industry is a little skewed too. Not every band that's signed is getting screwed. There are a lot of people working for the signed band, all of whom work through the label. Promotions, booking recording lp's and music videos. large venues can be expensive too, how much do you think it costs to rend out the home depot center?). I'm not saying people aren't getting screwed by major labels, but it doesn't happen as OFTEN as you think.

Look now... stealing is right for the wrong reasons. Its all good till you get caught, y'know? Thats why I believe priacy is wrong. The government should hire iron golems to stomp the computers of people who upload illegally. You know you can't get arrested for stealing something under 5 sents? So yeah, I stole a lot of gum. But if people claim music stuffs is worth five sents than we can like get a majority rule from the government and make it totally legal? Most artists have a lot fo money, so its usually the better known one ppl download. And usually adults have enuff cense in them to support up and coming artists. For these reasons I believe piracy is moral and correct.

downloading is just as bad as uploading, but do realize that people who download still do buy CD's (and some that upload had to buy the cd as well) it just filters out all the BS labels throw at you making it more likeley for GOOD bands to get signed rather than the easily exploited.

For example: Last month i downloaded juturna by circa survive, i REALLY liked the tracks i heard and when i got some money i bought it. That goes the same for the used. I really liked the first cd but didn't like the second cd, so i bought the one i thought was worthy of my support.

on a tangent cd's have a better dynamic range than mp3's so mastered music will sound better on a cd rather than an mp3 so if you like the mp3 version of the song, there's still something to look forward to from buying the CD.

Also, a lot of cd sales are now coming from itunes so it's a LEGAL way of downloading but here's the thing, musicians make very little on an itunes purchase (about $0.70 per cd) so you might as well just download it for now, buy it if you like it :)

[RiceMonster]

Buying mp3s is lame in my opinion. I download because I want to hear the music. I buy music because there's something that isn't the same about having mp3s of an album. When I pay for music, I want an actually copy with the booklet and everything.

[Huber]

Buying mp3s is lame in my opinion. I download because I want to hear the music. I buy music because there's something that isn't the same about having mp3s of an album. When I pay for music, I want an actually copy with the booklet and everything.

I've always hated the idea that a piece of music is worth 99 cents. It seems like a piece of music should be so much more when you think about it. Unfortunately nobody would pay for it. I figure that when I buy a CD in stores I'm paying for some cool artwork, a case, and an official set of lyrics. I can't get my head around the idea that there is literally a price on these pieces of art, and it's 99 cents a song!

Ugh, it's boggles my mind, but I guess it's how things have to work.

[sr800bkBassist]

is there any band outthere that gives their entire album for free:confused: .... i mean bands as famous as the arctic monkeys or bigger...

Defiance Ohio gives away every single thing they've ever recorded for free. thry're not as big as the arctic monkeys, but they're well known and well respected internationally.

[Huber]

I think there was a thread made awhile ago with links to legal downloads of albums. There were plenty of pretty top notch bands giving away there albums in that thread.

[wilford]

When you hear of the word PIRACY,what comes first into your mind? In my own opinion, piracy is just like robbery.You are stealing ones original creation and telling the whole world that it is your original composition or creation.

Does it confuse your mind until now?
Here's the exact meaning of the word PIRACY..

"Piracy is robbery committed at sea, or sometimes on the shore, by an agent without a commission from a sovereign nation. One who commits piracy by engaging in robbery, pillaging, or plundering at sea is known as a pirate. Seaborne piracy against transport vessels remains a significant issue (with estimated worldwide losses of US$13 to $16 billion per year[1]), particularly in the waters between the Pacific and Indian Oceans, off the Somali coast, and in the Strait of Malacca and Singapore, which are used by over 50,000 commercial ships a year. A recent surge in piracy off the Somali coast spurred a multi-national effort led by the United States to patrol the waters near the Horn of Africa to combat piracy. While boats off the coasts of South America and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the advent of the United States Coast Guard has nearly eradicated piracy in American waters and the Caribbean Sea. The Jolly Roger is the traditional flag of European and American pirates."


_________________________________________

http://oklahomalasikeyesurgery.com
http://uifloridacaraccident.com
http://belowhomeequityloans.com

[The Haitian]

I had a 7 minute persuasive speech on music piracy. I'm about to go to sleep but if I remember, I'll post some of my points from it next time I'm on here.

[Crickets On A Plane]

When you hear of the word PIRACY,what comes first into your mind? In my own opinion, piracy is just like robbery.You are stealing ones original creation and telling the whole world that it is your original composition or creation.

Does it confuse your mind until now?
Here's the exact meaning of the word PIRACY..

"Piracy is robbery committed at sea, or sometimes on the shore, by an agent without a commission from a sovereign nation. One who commits piracy by engaging in robbery, pillaging, or plundering at sea is known as a pirate. Seaborne piracy against transport vessels remains a significant issue (with estimated worldwide losses of US$13 to $16 billion per year[1]), particularly in the waters between the Pacific and Indian Oceans, off the Somali coast, and in the Strait of Malacca and Singapore, which are used by over 50,000 commercial ships a year. A recent surge in piracy off the Somali coast spurred a multi-national effort led by the United States to patrol the waters near the Horn of Africa to combat piracy. While boats off the coasts of South America and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the advent of the United States Coast Guard has nearly eradicated piracy in American waters and the Caribbean Sea. The Jolly Roger is the traditional flag of European and American pirates."


_________________________________________

http://oklahomalasikeyesurgery.com
http://uifloridacaraccident.com
http://belowhomeequityloans.com

tr00000 dattr br0tha

[Amit]

Yep. If music is done for money, then it's worthless in my eyes.

except you can't really ever know the motivations behind art

[sr800bkBassist]

When you hear of the word PIRACY,what comes first into your mind? In my own opinion, piracy is just like robbery.You are stealing ones original creation and telling the whole world that it is your original composition or creation.

Does it confuse your mind until now?
Here's the exact meaning of the word PIRACY..

"Piracy is robbery committed at sea, or sometimes on the shore, by an agent without a commission from a sovereign nation. One who commits piracy by engaging in robbery, pillaging, or plundering at sea is known as a pirate. Seaborne piracy against transport vessels remains a significant issue (with estimated worldwide losses of US$13 to $16 billion per year[1]), particularly in the waters between the Pacific and Indian Oceans, off the Somali coast, and in the Strait of Malacca and Singapore, which are used by over 50,000 commercial ships a year. A recent surge in piracy off the Somali coast spurred a multi-national effort led by the United States to patrol the waters near the Horn of Africa to combat piracy. While boats off the coasts of South America and the Mediterranean Sea are still assailed by pirates, the advent of the United States Coast Guard has nearly eradicated piracy in American waters and the Caribbean Sea. The Jolly Roger is the traditional flag of European and American pirates."


_________________________________________

http://oklahomalasikeyesurgery.com
http://uifloridacaraccident.com
http://belowhomeequityloans.com
well the first thing to come to mind when i think of "piracy" is Johny Depp in eyeliner.

and by your post, you have proven that downloading music is NOT piracy. because when i download a song, i don't say it's my personal creation. i say "cool, this is a great song. good thing i downloaded it or i would have never heard it."

i'd like to see if ANYONE in this thread downloads a song and then tells everyone that they wrote it. perhaps you are confused by what we mean by music piracy?

[sr800bkBassist]

except you can't really ever know the motivations behind art

well if the person actually TELLS you the reason the made the music was for money, i think it's pretty obvious that they have just told you the motivation behind their art. so it is possible.

[ATC]

well if the person actually TELLS you the reason the made the music was for money, i think it's pretty obvious that they have just told you the motivation behind their art. so it is possible.

Doesn't make the piece any different though. Art is separable from the artist. If that devalues the art for you, that's just too bad.

Edit: To Wotan, not sr800bk

[sr800bkBassist]

Doesn't make the piece any different though. Art is separable from the artist. If that devalues the art for you, that's just too bad.

yeah, i was just backing the other guy's point, that you can know the motivation. i myself can still enjoy music, whatever the motivation was. i lse respect for the artist if that's the case, but the music is still either good or bad.

(i have put one italicized word in every single one of my recent posts in this thread....)

[rata]

ive read somewhere that mainstream rappers CD income are down by 30% this year....hehehe... they should start cutting down their bling2xs.:naughty:

[philly96]

Wow. Thats remarkably funny. Its probably because there havent really been any successful rap artists/CD's this year. This has turned into an interesting discussion, its good. Some bands would cash into a popular genre at the time and may become successful in the short term but people will realise its all a fad and they will not gain as much if they continue in that fashion. So there would have to be some bands that only want money and put their music second because of whats popular at the time.
Rant finished.

[ghettoeddo]

ive read somewhere that mainstream rappers CD income are down by 30% this year....hehehe... they should start cutting down their bling2xs.:naughty:

nnoooo it just isnt as cool if fitty cent aint wearin all that bling

[Amit]

Doesn't make the piece any different though. Art is separable from the artist. If that devalues the art for you, that's just too bad.

winner

[lightningmetal666]

Wow. Thats remarkably funny. Its probably because there havent really been any successful rap artists/CD's this year. This has turned into an interesting discussion, its good. Some bands would cash into a popular genre at the time and may become successful in the short term but people will realise its all a fad and they will not gain as much if they continue in that fashion. So there would have to be some bands that only want money and put their music second because of whats popular at the time.
Rant finished.

I've been talking to my teacher and his prediction is that here in a few years time, cd's will be obsolete and will be replaced with online downloading.

Why pay for songs that you don't want?

[Anglachel]

I'm amazed nobody finds a useful solution.

How about

WE MAKE EVERYTHING CHEAPER?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

[lightningmetal666]

I'm amazed nobody finds a useful solution.

How about

WE MAKE EVERYTHING CHEAPER?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Well, what I was saying is that paying .99 for every song isn't such a bad idea. You can always find the lyrics on the internet for free, and with a 10 song album you pay $10 instead of the crappy $13-20 you'd pay at a store.

It's cheaper and chances are major labels will pick up on that and start going that route. I'd hate to be an owner of a record store in this day and age.

[philly96]

Well I pretty much only pay $10 anyway, unless its just released or I really want it. I'm pretty sure iTunes sells albums for about $4. I may have looked at it wrong but it might be the case. I find a lot of the record stores are getting cheaper. I'm not sure of if thats the case for a lot of the stores everywhere but Sony are selling their stuff for cheaper. Such as Opeths Damnation is only $10 aus.

[lightningmetal666]

Well I pretty much only pay $10 anyway, unless its just released or I really want it. I'm pretty sure iTunes sells albums for about $4. I may have looked at it wrong but it might be the case. I find a lot of the record stores are getting cheaper. I'm not sure of if thats the case for a lot of the stores everywhere but Sony are selling their stuff for cheaper. Such as Opeths Damnation is only $10 aus.

Yeah, but say you only like 4 songs on that album (if it's Opeth's Damnation, I'd highly doubt it but humor me anyways) you'd get only the songs you want and wouldn't have to pay for album fillers.

[philly96]

Yeah, good point. But I think labels have realised that they're not selling as much and realise they don't have to get as big a profit.

[Sleepy]

Huge record labels (who don't need more money) and superstars (who also don't need more money) are really the only two parties that benefit from stopping piracy. Any artist or group beneath the popularity level of...say...Metallica or Megadeth really only makes money on touring and merchandise.

Backed by the scores of local musicians I've talked to about this.

[philly96]

Yeah, I concur. Music piracy is good for everyone but bands that are already big. Downloads will be the next CD.

[Apocalyptic Raids]

I've been talking to my teacher and his prediction is that here in a few years time, cd's will be obsolete and will be replaced with online downloading.
That will be a sad day.

If I'm paying for my music, I want the Cover Art, Lyric booklet etc etc. Also, it will be a cold day in hell when I pay money for compressed mp3s.

[philly96]

I like CDs as well. But most people like downloading because their poor, slack and experimenting in finding bands they like. So its not bothering me because of the fact that they are finding more bands that they may or may not like. Its just that bands will lose money to make money in this day and age.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

That will be a sad day.

If I'm paying for my music, I want the Cover Art, Lyric booklet etc etc. Also, it will be a cold day in hell when I pay money for compressed mp3s.

I really can't imagine a world without cd's..Or at least some kind of tangible distribution of music. Half of the fun is owning the cd! :p

[philly96]

And if you really hate the CD you can put into a fire. Which reminds me I have burn Whitesnake and Dio very soon.

[Apocalyptic Raids]

I really can't imagine a world without cd's..Or at least some kind of tangible distribution of music. Half of the fun is owning the cd! :p
Exactly.

[G_Mac07]

I never intend on purchasing .mp3's unless I absolutely have to. If I pay for something, I want to have something physical to show for it.

And if you really hate the CD you can put into a fire. Which reminds me I have burn Whitesnake and Dio very soon.

Wow, you suck.

[philly96]

Why do I suck?

[G_Mac07]

Because Whitesnake and Dio aren't trash. And even if they were, you'd still be a tool for destroying a piece of music that way. It achieves nothing.

[eug008]

Yeah, you could always take it to cash converters or somthing anyway.

[philly96]

Meh. It was somewhat of a joke. I do really dislike Whitesnake and Dio though. Hmm, I could take it to a secondhand CD store near me. I may get some money and get rid of those CDs.

[philly96]

Comment me!

[rata]

Meh. It was somewhat of a joke. I do really dislike Whitesnake and Dio though. Hmm, I could take it to a secondhand CD store near me. I may get some money and get rid of those CDs.

nobody buys jokes around here anymore..hehehe... but i did kinda burn whitesnake's restless heart CD out of boredom and my dislike of that material...

[ghettoeddo]

its peanut butter jelly time!

man...i would never burn any of my CD's...even the dashboard confessional/nsync cd i have.

[the2stranger]

Same here, cd's are one of my most precious belongings. :)

[ghettoeddo]

think in 40 years....you can whip them out to your kids and they'll be likee "wow you're old."

ok so that's such a good thing.

[TojesDolan]

Yeah when the kids all have like embedded chips in their minds that can hold Mp3's and watch videos they'll be like "ew old man gtfo".

I download some but that's because it's hard to get some music where I live. At decent, payable prices that is.

[philly96]

Micro-chips will undoubtably happen soon. It will be all futuristic like.

[lightningmetal666]

That will be a sad day.

If I'm paying for my music, I want the Cover Art, Lyric booklet etc etc. Also, it will be a cold day in hell when I pay money for compressed mp3s.

I've got mixed feelings on this. I don't like paying $10 for maybe 3 good songs, but I also like the album covers and stuff.

Plus the really crappy cd's (like slipknot's vol 3 album) makes for some good trap shooting.

[Luc214]

That will be a sad day.

If I'm paying for my music, I want the Cover Art, Lyric booklet etc etc. Also, it will be a cold day in hell when I pay money for compressed mp3s.

Exactly. I don't want to pay for digital music. If I spend money I want the physical CD.

If it does go that way, I will never pay for music again.

[AA-12]

I support music downloading 100%

[lawlstorm]

whenever i feel bad about the music i download (most of my collection), i just tell myself about the 100s of dollars ive spent to see a band live a few times, and pick up the shirts while i was there. Compared to that an album seems worthless

[Christian Holocaust]

I buy anything I download that is good. That's about 1%, max.

[sr800bkBassist]

i have over 600 burned CD's, and then about 300-400 CD's on my computer that are yet to be burned. assuming they cost an average of $10 each, i'd have to spend roughly $10,000 to get all my CD's. and then add the few hundred that actually were purchased.

in conclusion, without downloading music, i wouldn't be able to get what i have.

[the2stranger]

I cna't buy everything I like, I have to make choices.
But I love buying cds, so it's al good. :)

[philly96]

I picked up 6 CDs for a bit more then $80. All of them new, so I guess I prefer CDs then downloading and we've only get 1 gig of downloads pre month, which isnt too much. So I dont wanna go over the download limit because I would have pay for the amount it goes over. Oh well.

[Christian Holocaust]

i have over 600 burned CD's, and then about 300-400 CD's on my computer that are yet to be burned. assuming they cost an average of $10 each, i'd have to spend roughly $10,000 to get all my CD's. and then add the few hundred that actually were purchased.

If I could do it all over again... and could listen via mp3s to each CD for two weeks before buying, I would have bought half as many CDs. That's why I always try before I buy. It filters out the garbage (Dylan, Testament, Miles Davis, Arghoslent) and leaves the best.

[AA-12]

You mentioned some good stuff there >:-[

:p

[pate]

Indeed he did. :mad:

[Stormrider]

Yeah, don't insult Testament infront of Pate :p

[Apocalyptic Raids]

more like Testasuck amirite

[pate]

No ur not rite.

Testapwn

[Stormrider]

more like Testasuck amirite

Go read my post in the Community thread about the Saint Vitus !

[Apocalyptic Raids]

Your lack of faith disturbs me.

:darthvader:

[Moses]

He mentioned Miles Davis too guys...

Peice of **** metal heads... :p

[philly96]

Miles Davis is pretty cool.

[pate]

Testapwn, Miles Davis, and Bob Dylan all own.

[Luc214]

does anyone else find it ironic that I downloaded "Don't Download This Song" by Weird Al Yankovic?

[sr800bkBassist]

He mentioned Miles Davis too guys...

Peice of **** metal heads... :p

hahahaha yeah i was wondering where all the love was for Bob Dylan and Miles Davis :p.

[philly96]

I don't like Bob Dylan very much but I can understand his influence on many people. So he's alright. COMMENT!