what exactly is Prog rock?

[Call Me Jack]

i know its progressive, but what is progressive? lots of people tells me its really spacey music like pink floyd. but others say stuff about avenged sevenfold being sorta prog, along with dream theater. can i get some clarity hear?

[Lunch]

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp

[repcak]

wikipedia

[The Minstrel in the Gallery]

The best genre in the universe.

/thread

[IbanezSamurai]

Pink Floyd is not really prog.
Avenge Sevenfold is no where near prog.
Dream Theater IS prog.

[Lunch]

Pink Floyd is definitely prog.

[PinkFreud]

How can you say Pink Floyd's not prog but Dream Theater is?

[Amit]

its what nerdy teenagers and married men in their late 40's to mid 50's go to when they go to a concert

[slaughteredfirst]

its what nerdy teenagers and married men in their late 40's to mid 50's go to when they go to a concert




buuuuuuurrrrrrrnnnnnnnn

[Amit]

hey i listen to prog :-]

[slaughteredfirst]

hey i listen to prog :-]


I do too, but I found your comment so awesomely right.

[TojesDolan]

As sad as it sounds, it is true.

Kids that like progressive rock or metal are usually kids who are socially impaired and probably like music, but to a degree that is very annoying, and it's even worse if they play any instrument: They question everyone's technique, ability to play, theoretical knowledge...

That's why when they ask me what kind of music I just say I don't like it. That has saved me some problems in the past.

[Lunch]

Good thing I don't fall under any of those categories.

[Frequently Tripping]

Prog is easily the lamest genre, but it has some of the best instrumentals, so musicians love it.

[Cocaine]

Progressive means they're bringing something new to the table, or advancing the genre.

Sadly, most prog rock bands either
a) sound like other prog rock bands
b) have released the same boring album year after year

The idea that prog rock can have a "sound", which is often implied, basically makes the entire genre a joke.

[Shadius]

Often it's just combining other genres together, mixed with a degree of technical virtuosity. They often toy with things that normal pop or rock music rarely does, like textures in their music, concept albums, having classical, jazz and metal influences in the same song, etc. shifts in style as well as tempo or time signiture are often employed, because again, changing time signiture wouldn't interest a pop band unless it somehow made the piece more accessable or catchy, which is why 4/4 is so often used, prog bands will change time signitures up to try out new things.

So in a sense, it does have a "sound", but yeah, it shouldn't really. The big prog bands who are actually advancing the genre are doing good, and like every genre you have scenes and copycat bands all over the place.

Edit: Oh, did I mention long songs, and movements, and odd song structures that don't necesserally follow any verse/chorus format. Basically the idea is they're doing things that havn't been done before.

[ollie_poole]

Dream Theater is progressive, it's just prog metal rather than prog rock

[Statutory Ape]

Often it's just combining other genres together, mixed with a degree of technical virtuosity. They often toy with things that normal pop or rock music rarely does, like textures in their music, concept albums, having classical, jazz and metal influences in the same song, etc. shifts in style as well as tempo or time signiture are often employed, because again, changing time signiture wouldn't interest a pop band unless it somehow made the piece more accessable or catchy, which is why 4/4 is so often used, prog bands will change time signitures up to try out new things.

So in a sense, it does have a "sound", but yeah, it shouldn't really. The big prog bands who are actually advancing the genre are doing good, and like every genre you have scenes and copycat bands all over the place.

Edit: Oh, did I mention long songs, and movements, and odd song structures that don't necesserally follow any verse/chorus format. Basically the idea is they're doing things that havn't been done before.

That is probably the best definition you'll get.

its what nerdy teenagers and married men in their late 40's to mid 50's go to when they go to a concert

Second best definition.

[Riva]

Progressive is anything that significantly progresses, in a musical sense. In rock, this means adding in new elements often, and discarding used elements at will. Usually prog rock incorporates lots of different styles, but not always.

In metal, this means that you wank the guitar, bass, drums and keyboards for as long as possible whilst ignoring your singer's abominably annoying voice.

[Rams]

It's a less progressive form of rock than Avant-Garde rock (which in turn is a bit less adventuruous than Experimental rock).


:confused:

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

Examples of some prog rocks bands:

Rush
Pink Floyd
Yes
Genesis
The Mothers of Invention/Frank Zappa
King Crimson

[Insipid2000]

Tool

[i am the robots]

I've seen progressive as linear writing wrather than the normal verse/chorus/verse structure

[Chu]

its what nerdy teenagers and married men in their late 40's to mid 50's go to when they go to a concert
Very true.

I am a nerdy teenager, I love prog.

[pulseczar]

I don't think Pink Floyd is progressive. They have some long songs and concepts but they're too simple. And yes, progressive is superficial enough to have complexity as a main factor.

[Bfhurricane]

All good progressive bands have to have incredibly talented musicians, like Rush and Dream Theater. If a band tries to be progressive using some simple powerchords, which can make a good rock song, they wont make a good progressive song. You basically have to be INVENTIVE

[Lunch]

I would've almost agreed with that a couple months ago, but I don't anymore. Although complex instrumentals are an element of prog, I don't think they are a necessity. Echoes, Dogs, Interstaller Overdrive, SOYCD, Atom Heart Mother, etc are all very progressive songs despite a lack of certain technicality that other bands in era epitomized (Yes, ELP, and so on).

Pink Floyd also basically developed space rock, which is a form of progressive rock. Technical ability has become one of the defining aspects of prog by today's standards, but to say that Pink Floyd wasn't a progressive band still isn't justified.

[pulseczar]

Yeah I think Floyd fit in the loophole of Space Rock, but not actual "symphonic prog" and what not.

[Lunch]

It's not exactly a loophole. "Symphonic Prog" tended to have incredibly talented musicians, and it seems that it was that brand of prog rock that has the most influence on the prog groups in more modern times. Just because this one characteristic from a certain type of prog has grown more important in today's progressive scene doesn't mean that the older prog scenes are any less progressive.

[i am the robots]

space rock

and kids say metal has ridiculous sub genres :lol:

[Lunch]

Notice it's not called Melodic Dead Hardcore Space Rock.

Space rock is basically the hybrid of psychedelia and progressive pieces, not a very complicated genre to understand.

[Cocaine]

I hate when "Prog Rockers" use the term as a distraction from stupid "music". See: Mars Volta and their unnecessary ambience.

[Kage]

I wonder how that's ridiculous?

[i am the robots]

hardcore = punk, not metal

melodic/symphonic/progressive/etc. are all modifiers to specific genres, not genres to their own

melodic death metal
symphonic black metal

[Kage]

But space rock has been a valid genre of rock. It's like saying death metal is a ridiculous genre.

[i am the robots]

I'm just pointing out mindless hypocrisy.

Of course you'll argue against that because you've been arguing against everything like a little girl lately.

[Lunch]

hardcore = punk, not metal

melodic/symphonic/progressive/etc. are all modifiers to specific genres, not genres to their own

melodic death metal
symphonic black metal

It was an obvious exaggeration.

But anyway, would you rather we say psychedelic progressive rock? I don't see how that's different than any of your examples.

[PinkFreud]

Just to clear things up, there's a difference between hardcore PUNK and just hardcore.

[i am the robots]

psychedelic progressive rock sounds a lot less silly than, "space rock," to me.

death metal is a retarded genre name too, meh.

and freud, no.

[Lunch]

Well if that sounds silly to you, then surely you understand why so many subgenres of metal sound silly to non-metal listeners?

[i am the robots]

I do understand this, I'm just saying it's freaking retarded when classic rock kids (not you and some others) will be like LOL BLACK METAL THATS SO DARK!!!! and then discuss, "space rock," seriously.

[Lunch]

Well to be fair, space rock is hardly a popular sub-genre, so there's a high possibility that the people who call certain genres of metal "ridiculous" don't even know what space rock is or that it exists.

And I don't think we ever call things like Black Metal a ridiculous genre.

[i am the robots]

Meh, I just wanted to make a friendly stab at you guys :(.

[Lunch]

Meh, I just wanted to make a friendly stab at you guys :(.

/pulls knife out of non-fatal area.

[i am the robots]

Heh

[PinkFreud]

and freud, no.
Yes.

Hardcore Punk was punk turned up louder, faster, and shorter. Hardcore was when hardcore punks realized that they didn't have to stick with punk ideals. Still heavy and loud but not as short and with less of a base in punk.

[i am the robots]

I guess so, however I'd still call it a sub-genre in punk.

Example, heavy metal, along the lines of Iron Maiden, and then, say, death metal along the lines of Cannibal Corpse.

Same genre at all? Hell no, but it's an offshoot.

[PinkFreud]

I'd agree with that but you have to admit that it's still a DIFFERENT subgenre.

[i am the robots]

I'll admit it, but I genrally use the term hardcore punk (in that manner) to explain to people that hardcore isn't boring metal with too many breakdowns.

[Amit]

anyway the biggest problem i have with nearly all prog is that its fans (and the musicians in the bands) think that prog is actually some virtuosic paragon of technique

the guitar/bass/keys parts anyway

[Chu]

Why does that affect you? Especially when you obviously know better?

I don't understand why you just don't ignore people, rather then trying to change their opinions, when more often then not they would prefer to keep their mindset.

*This wasn't directed at you as in Atman, this was to you as in the reader.

[Jude]

The point of prog is to sound like nobody else has ever sounded before, IMO. That's the biggest challenge of songwriting anyway, probably even harder than just writing a good catchy song.

[loathed]

are ALL progressive songs 7 mins long or more? cause the ones i've seen definitely are...

[Tyr]

Most "standard" prog songs usually are, but it is by no means a requierment.

[Jude]

are ALL progressive songs 7 mins long or more? cause the ones i've seen definitely are...
Of course not. A lot of bands just like to use long, weirdly structured songs because it's unusual and defies expectations - at least until it becomes its own cliche.

[loathed]

Of course not. A lot of bands just like to use long, weirdly structured songs because it's unusual and defies expectations - at least until it becomes its own cliche.

I think thats becoming one of progressive's downfall. I really like some riffs and licks from DT and such progressive bands but sometimes the long songs get boring and i have to press the skip button...

[ghettoeddo]

Of course not. A lot of bands just like to use long, weirdly structured songs because it's unusual and defies expectations - at least until it becomes its own cliche.

thats why prog is such a difficult genre.
give credit to those trying :]
prog isn't wholly bad...and that virtuostic element wasn't really there (im pointing the finger at dream theater, whom most people consider the poster prog band of today) before. so in that sense, they ARE prog.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

are ALL progressive songs 7 mins long or more? cause the ones i've seen definitely are...

People hold this misconception that progressive music means long songs. That's incorrect. Dredg is one of the most progressive bands out there, but they haven't written a song over 7 minutes.