Overrated Players in NFL

[Acey]

T.o

[Acey]

i would Say T.O. because of how he is beginning to act in Dallas

[Reaganista]

most of the giants
except tiki barber

[Black Ink]

i would Say T.O. because of how he is beginning to act in Dallas
He's hurt?

Steve Smith has missed a lot practices because of an nagging injury and no one crys fowl about that.

[silicon71]

Dom Davis

[Ghostfire3]

I don't think T.O. is really over rated. He is a really good athlete and player. That doesn't mean I necessarily like him but there is no doubt that he's good.

[moosepirate]

Yeah, T.O. is really more over-publicized than overrated. He might even be underrated because so many people hate him.
I feel bad for Dallas too, because T.O. probably only has 4 good years left in him, and he won't get a lot of touches in that offense.

[[Nightbreak]]

Vick.

[Acey]

yes, i agree with vick. and steve smith is not overrated. he is also overpublicized. and about the T.O. in Dallas, they also suspended him from a game because he missed so many weeks of practice.

[3074326]

TO is one of the few who backs up his mouth.. hate him or not, he's a ridiculously good receiver. Look at his stats. :)

Vick gets my vote too. Shouldn't have taken him this long to develop as a passer. People keep giving him time because he's Michael Vick.

[Trojan Kahn]

Brett Favre, too damn old

[randomthought9]

TO's good, even though I can't stand him. I just hate how every day ESPN is like "TO is not in practice, he is riding the bike still! After the commercial, we'll let you know all the latest TO news!" ESPN should change their name to the TO show.

[Hababi]

Vick gets my vote too. Shouldn't have taken him this long to develop as a passer. People keep giving him time because he's Michael Vick.


Yeah, definately Vick. Matt Jones would probably play just as well as him at QB, and his backup is a better QB. Vick is a gimmick and nothing more.

[nutty_bar]

Brett Favre, too damn old


Are you kidding me? By no means is he overrated. I love tough guy quarterbacks. There aren't enough.

[Syncratic]

Deion Sanders wasn't that great, not to mention he's a cocky bastard.

Ray Lewis in the same respect.

[TurnOnTheLight]

Dom Davis

Domanick Davis... look at who's blocking for him. You call him overrated? If he was running behind a better line people would give him more credit. Wow, last time I was here was Jan 22... bein in the military takes my fun away.

[TurnOnTheLight]

Deion Sanders wasn't that great, not to mention he's a cocky bastard.
Ray Lewis in the same respect.

You are the only other person I know who feels that way about Deion. People are always saying he was the best DB but he's not even close to some of the past DBs.

[Endless Obsession]

Michael Vick
Warren Sapp
Charles Woodson
Ben Roethlisberger

[Syncratic]

Ben's a little overrated, but still a good player, just what Pittsburgh needs ATM.

[Reaganista]

Eli Manning is more overrated than Vick

seeing as everybody hates Vick and hardly anybody gets how badly eli sucks

[YDload]

Ben's a little overrated, but still a good player, just what Pittsburgh needs ATM.

he doesn't need to have a good game for his team to win (Super Bowl), but if he wants to, he can make a lot of great passes and build up a good lead (like in the Broncos and Colts playoff games).

although it stands to mention that his biggest game statistically was the one where he lost to the Bengals :-/

[nutty_bar]

Cocky or not, Deion backs up what he says.

[Syncratic]

although it stands to mention that his biggest game statistically was the one where he lost to the Bengals :-/

And Chris Collinsworth has the gall to say that Pittsburgh wouldn't have won had Palmer not been injured (which was a clean hit, BTW). Bengals didn't do diddly-**** in that game on D.

[Hababi]

And Chris Collinsworth has the gall to say that Pittsburgh wouldn't have won had Palmer not been injured (which was a clean hit, BTW). Bengals didn't do diddly-**** in that game on D.

Palmer was ripping them apart though; the Bengals would've scored 42 points. Clean hit, yes, but Pittsburgh still got lucky.

[ThePatient]

Deion Sanders wasn't that great, not to mention he's a cocky bastard.

Ray Lewis in the same respect.
That's it, we're over.

He isn't the player he was from '97-'03 or so, but during that span Lewis was the most dominating defensive player in the game. And even still he's a top linebacker.

Vick is overrated, but he can be a game changing player.

[Endless Obsession]

Emmit Smith

[victim of changes]

I agree with Vick hes way overated, as for T.O. he could be the best WR in the game watching him in 04 in philly was just amazing but his attitude is rediculous, which prevents him from being the player he should be

[Liquid Force]

I would go with Vick. He is over-publicized, I mean sure he is the best scrambling QB in the league but that can only get you so far. You need a QB that can pass to win games, and Vick is just now developing into an average passer.

[Endless Obsession]

I would go with Vick. He is over-publicized, I mean sure he is the best scrambling QB in the league but that can only get you so far. You need a QB that can pass to win games, and Vick is just now developing into an average passer.

That avatar is so stupid. You could have at least had them wearing the same uniform.

[YDload]

i don't really care if Vick is a good QB or not, I just think he's fun to watch. same thing with Vince Young; i just hope these guys can stay healthy so they can run around the field and lose games for a long time to come ;)

[Trojan Kahn]

Are you kidding me? By no means is he overrated. I love tough guy quarterbacks. There aren't enough.

He led the league in sacks last season. Enough is enough, come on.

[MattSharpIsCool]

Michael Vick.... check
Charles Woodson.... double check

Steve ****ing McNair. Christ that guy is worthless.

[victim of changes]

Maybe, either way, he will help out Baltimore, even though they still wont make the playoffs.

[3074326]

Steve ****ing McNair. Christ that guy is worthless.

I don't know many people who would be good with the Titans' recievers from last year.

Eli Manning is more overrated than Vick

seeing as everybody hates Vick and hardly anybody gets how badly eli sucks

I'm no Giants fan, but Eli hasn't been in the NFL for six years. Eli has played one full season. Give him a little credit, I'd much rather have Eli in any situation than Michael Vick. He's already proven more than Vick (to me).

Deion Sanders wasn't that great, not to mention he's a cocky bastard.


From Wikipedia: "During his 14-year career, the All-Pro Deion Sanders was one of the most feared pass defenders to ever play the game. He was so versatile, that he was a threat to score every time he touched the football. He intercepted 53 passes for 1331 yards (a 25.1 yards per return average), recovered 4 fumbles for 15 yards, returned 155 kickoffs for 3,523 yards, gained 2,199 yards on 212 punt returns, and even caught 60 passes for 784 yards. Sanders scored 22 touchdowns: 8 interception returns, 6 punt returns, 3 kickoff returns, 3 receiving, and 1 fumble recovery. His 19 defensive and return touchdowns are an NFL record."

It's hard to be overrated when you're that versatile and good at all of it, but that's just my opinion (and many others' apparantly).

[Reaganista]

I'm no Giants fan, but Eli hasn't been in the NFL for six years. Eli has played one full season. Give him a little credit, I'd much rather have Eli in any situation than Michael Vick. He's already proven more than Vick (to me).
Vick's proven he can make a conference championship game
Eli's proven he can be a pocket passer who barely completes half of his passes and gets obliterated in the first round

Vick also won a playoff game in his second year

[Hababi]

Vick's proven he can make a conference championship game
Eli's proven he can be a pocket passer who barely completes half of his passes and gets obliterated in the first round

Vick also won a playoff game in his second year

Pfft Shaun King made a conference championship game wtf does that matter? Eli's the better QB.

[Illmatic]

And Chris Collinsworth has the gall to say that Pittsburgh wouldn't have won had Palmer not been injured (which was a clean hit, BTW). Bengals didn't do diddly-**** in that game on D.

No the biggest reason they lost was because they werent aggresive enough on offense with Kitna in the game.

Deion Sanders wasn't that great, not to mention he's a cocky bastard.

Ray Lewis in the same respect.

Wow you're stupid.

Steve ****ing McNair. Christ that guy is worthless.

So are you.

Peyton Manning is the Karl Malone/A-Rod/Roger Clemens of football. He gets a lot of stats in unimportant situations and disappears in big games. If you need someone to throw 5 touchdowns in a game against the Houston Texans in November, Peyton's your guy.

Brett Favre, because he threw 30 picks last year and not only kept his job, but has people actually defending him.

[Hababi]

No the biggest reason they lost was because they werent aggresive enough on offense with Kitna in the game.


You can't really be aggressive with Kitna at QB. The guy's a solid game manager but if you ask him to attack like Palmer, you're definately losing.



Peyton Manning is the Karl Malone/A-Rod/Roger Clemens of football. He gets a lot of stats in unimportant situations and disappears in big games. If you need someone to throw 5 touchdowns in a game against the Houston Texans in November, Peyton's your guy.

Brett Favre, because he threw 30 picks last year and not only kept his job, but has people actually defending him.

:lol: Hey it's like Michael Jordan in his final two seasons.

[Illmatic]

You can't really be aggressive with Kitna at QB. The guy's a solid game manager but if you ask him to attack like Palmer, you're definately losing.

Which is my point. With Palmer in the game they would have never let up. The Steelers wouldn't stand a chance trying to keep up with the Bengals score-for-score.

Hey it's like Michael Jordan in his final two seasons.

When Jordan was with the Wizards he couldn't win games like he used to, but unlike Favre he wasn't singlehandedly losing them.

[Hababi]

When Jordan was with the Wizards he couldn't win games like he used to, but unlike Favre he wasn't singlehandedly losing them.

The rest of his team didn't totally suck, though :p Well, kinda...but Favre is still essentially forced to make it or break it for the Packers.

[Illmatic]

Oh God, please tell me YOU aren't one of his defenders.

[dislocated214]

Eli Manning
Mike Ditka (as a coach)
Warren Sapp
Mark Brunell (even though I am a Redskins fan)
Tiki Barber

[Leprechauns1021]

Larry Johnson

[Liquid Force]

That avatar is so stupid. You could have at least had them wearing the same uniform.

I didn't make the avatar for one I just saw it on a red sox forum, and two they are wearing the same team uniform, one is just home the other away. It doesn't have to be perfect.

[8VM]

larry johnson

[Hababi]

Oh God, please tell me YOU aren't one of his defenders.

:lol: No, not really. Favre's best days are far behind him. At this stage in his career, he is overrated.

[Reaganista]

Pfft Shaun King made a conference championship game wtf does that matter? Eli's the better QB.
He has of course done absolutely nothing on the field that would make any reasonable person think this
except be white and a giant

[Syncratic]

My dad has stated many a time that Eli was the biggest flop of his draft. He hasn't really produced.

[Reaganista]

He's a sack of ****

[MattSharpIsCool]

So are you.

Whats so special about Steve McNair? The guy plays hurt, big deal, so does 95% of the players in the NFL.

For most of his career, his TD-INT ratio wasnt much better than 1:1. So maybe he's not worthless, but he isnt all that great, yet he has a MVP award. Hes a decent leader on the field, but hes not a MVP caliber player, and he never has been.

And since I know how much you like to use wins as a marker for a good player, even in a team game.... what has McNair won? He's been to a super bowl, thats cool, but its not like he exactly carried them there. Other than that, theres been a lot of division round losses and flat out missing the playoffs.

Is he a bad QB? No, not really. Is he overrated? Yes. Very.

[DFelon204409]

He had an MVP season, without a doubt.

Eli Manning has way too much hype.

[Reaganista]

For most of his career, his TD-INT ratio wasnt much better than 1:1.

1.5 to 1
and there's the little matter of 3500 rushing yards and 36 TD

And since I know how much you like to use wins as a marker for a good player, even in a team game.... what has McNair won? He's been to a super bowl, thats cool, but its not like he exactly carried them there. Other than that, theres been a lot of division round losses and flat out missing the playoffs.
he's 5-4 in the playoffs
that's better than other MVPs
like rich gannon

[3074326]

Vick's proven he can make a conference championship game
Eli's proven he can be a pocket passer who barely completes half of his passes and gets obliterated in the first round

Vick also won a playoff game in his second year

I'm pretty sure Michael Vick hasn't put together back-to-back winning seasons yet. The Falcons have good receivers, unlike what people think. They also have a good defense and great running backs. EVERYTHING a QB needs to be a good passer. They seriously just need to make him a WR and give Matt Schaub the ball. Schaub is great when he plays.

The fact that we're comparing a QB with one full season under his belt to a player with five under his belt says something to me.

[Te Karanga]

Warren Sapp
He was a force back in his day, but today nobody rates him highly. So I wouldn't call him overrated, he was for awhile, but people have settled back down and realised he isn't half of what he used to be.

Mark Brunell (even though I am a Redskins fan)
I don't think he is a great QB, but I don't think people overrate him. I think most realise he is just 'good enough for the Redskins to win' not 'good enough to win it for the Redskins'.

[Hababi]

I'm pretty sure Michael Vick hasn't put together back-to-back winning seasons yet. The Falcons have good receivers, unlike what people think. They also have a good defense and great running backs. EVERYTHING a QB needs to be a good passer. They seriously just need to make him a WR and give Matt Schaub the ball. Schaub is great when he plays.


Yeah, Schaub will probably be starting somewhere like Detroit next year and will be a much better QB, when all is said and done, than Michael Vick.

[Endless Obsession]

Yeah, Schaub will probably be starting somewhere like Detroit next year and will be a much better QB, when all is said and done, than Michael Vick.

Schaub hasnt proven **** yet. Remember Vick has only played 3 full seasons, and it usually takes NFL qb's about that much time to develop into a great player.

[ihatemybass]

Shaun Alexander is overrated. Seriously.

[Illmatic]

And since I know how much you like to use wins as a marker for a good player, even in a team game.... what has McNair won? He's been to a super bowl, thats cool, but its not like he exactly carried them there. Other than that, theres been a lot of division round losses and flat out missing the playoffs.

Better than anything Peyton Manning's ever done.

[Reaganista]

I'm pretty sure Michael Vick hasn't put together back-to-back winning seasons yet.
2002: 8-6-1 as starter, 1-0 without him
2003: 3-2 as starter - 2-9 without him
2004: 11-3 as starter, 0-2 without him
2005: 8-7 as a starter, 0-1 without him

30-18-1 with Vick in the lineup, 3-12 without him over a span of 4 years.

[Endless Obsession]

2002: 8-6-1 as starter, 1-0 without him
2003: 3-2 as starter - 2-9 without him
2004: 11-3 as starter, 0-2 without him
2005: 8-7 as a starter, 0-1 without him

30-18-1 with Vick in the lineup, 3-12 without him over a span of 4 years.

Thats a stupid stat. Obviously Schaub isnt going to win as many games as him in a backup role, or else he wouldnt be the backup. He doesnt have as much experience and he doesnt have the same chemistry because he doesnt rep with the 1st team in practice.

[3074326]

Schaub hasnt proven **** yet. Remember Vick has only played 3 full seasons, and it usually takes NFL qb's about that much time to develop into a great player.

He's outplayed Vick every time he's stepped on the field.

Three seasons is enough to get you good enough to not be outplayed by your backup whenever the backup steps on the field.

[bleep_bloop]

I think everybody in the NFL is overrated.

[Endless Obsession]

He's outplayed Vick every time he's stepped on the field.

Three seasons is enough to get you good enough to not be outplayed by your backup whenever the backup steps on the field.

C'mon, lets be real for a second here. Schaub started 1 game last year, and they lost. Sure he played well but he didnt win, against a mediocre New Englad team. Michael Vick is a proven winner. In his 3 years as the full starter he is 27-15-1, thats not bad by any means.

[Reaganista]

Thats a stupid stat.
Yeah wins and losses is a stupid stat
what the **** was I thinking? Vick hardly gets any fantasy football points

He's outplayed Vick every time he's stepped on the field.

Three seasons is enough to get you good enough to not be outplayed by your backup whenever the backup steps on the field.
um
schaub only played any real time in 3 games last year
and they were 1-2 in those games
including getting their asses handed to them by carolina

["Freshly Baked"]

Charles Woodson, no doubt

[Zmev]

Its not that his past accomplishments are overrated, but every sportscaster being on Favre's dick gets annoying.

"Sure hes not doing good, and sure he just threw the ball away again, but you gotta love Bret!"

[Illmatic]

Yeah wins and losses is a stupid stat
what the **** was I thinking? Vick hardly gets any fantasy football points

Yeah come on man.

The ability to throw 4 touchdown passes in a game in October is much more important than winning.

[Hababi]

Yeah come on man.

The ability to throw 4 touchdown passes in a game in October is much more important than winning.

Vick's wins are tied to when the rest of the team was also healthy. In that sense, he's like Trent Dilfer with the speed of a reciever.

[Endless Obsession]

Vick's wins are tied to when the rest of the team was also healthy. In that sense, he's like Trent Dilfer with the speed of a reciever.

Ravens' D in 2000 > Atlanta's D X 100

[Hababi]

Ravens' D in 2000 > Atlanta's D X 100

Yeah that's why they won the superbowl, whereas Vick got lucky one season and beat an underperforming Green Bay team in the divisional round.

[Illmatic]

Vick's wins are tied to when the rest of the team was also healthy

Prove it, because it sounds like you're pulling stuff out of your *** again.

[randomthought9]

So I was playing Madden, and it got me thinking. I know scrambling QB's are good in Madden, but in real life I still think pocket passers are better, but they need an offensive line or else they won't be able to do anything, while scrambling QB's can still accomplish things without an o-line. So good oline-get a pocket passer, bad o-line-get a scrambler.

And Favre is definitely overrated, he tries to force the ball way, way too much. But I'm a little biased, I'm a huge Bears fan. :cool:

[Hababi]

Prove it, because it sounds like you're pulling stuff out of your *** again.

If you followed the Falcons then I wouldn't even need to prove it:smash:

Oh and I won the superbowl with the Falcons...

With Matt Schaub at quarterback :D

No I'm not actually trying to make a point with that anecdote.

[3074326]

Michael Vick has yet to complete more than 57% of his passes in one season.

He has yet to lead his team to back-to-back winning seasons.

He has not thrown more than 16 TDs in a season.

He's averaged 15 TDs and 11 INTs in his three full seasons.

Talk about mediocre numbers.

Schaub's QB play has been better than Vick's. You can't compare win/loss totals because Schaub is the backup. I personally feel that Schaub would be a better west coast-style QB because he can throw the ball accurately and consistantly accurate. He has such limited experience and he's shown that to me.

Can't really see how Vick isn't overrated.. just my opinion though.

[apple pie]

to be fair Vick does have a STD

[Illmatic]

You can't compare win/loss totals because Schaub is the backup.

So were Doug Flutie and Tom Brady

[randomthought9]

to be fair Vick does have a STD

lol there was this one football game, and they made a guy like vick named ron mexico-his alias at the clinic. it was some nfl blitz game i think.

[3074326]

So were Doug Flutie and Tom Brady

Those two QBs are reasons Schaub should play.

Still not sure what they have to do with Schaub being Vick's backup. They were both backups, sure, but Schaub hasn't been given a chance yet. I don't think the Falcons can give him a chance without most people ripping them apart for benching "one of the best in the league."

[chorbalan]

Micheal Vick maybe a bit overated, but let's remember how the Falcons did when he was injured? Terrible that's how. It is true he's not very accurate, but I think there is still time for him to develop. Despite his unadequacies his athletism allows him to make plays out of nothing; however this trait will not last for ever as he gets older, so unless he develops his passing game significantly in the next couple of season I don't see him doing anything notable for the Falcons.

[YDload]

Okay here's a question: if you HAD to pick the better player, would you say Vick or Vince Young? They're both pretty similar but it's always seemed to me that Vick is built like a wideout. His shoulders are too narrow.

Young has a more ideal build for a QB, and he hasn't proven himself to be as statistically disappointing as Vick either.

I still say that I like both of them because they're fun to watch, not because they win games (not a Titans or Falcons fan anyway). I'm just hoping Young can do a little better.

[Reaganista]

Vick's wins are tied to when the rest of the team was also healthy. In that sense, he's like Trent Dilfer with the speed of a reciever.
When you've got an All-time D, Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis and Sam Gash, all you need is a quarterback who won't turn the ball over

And Dilfer was almost perfect for that.

Yeah that's why they won the superbowl, whereas Vick got lucky one season and beat an underperforming Green Bay team in the divisional round.
He beat a 12-4 Green Bay team

and then two years later he 'got lucky' again and obliterated the Rams, who'd already beaten the seahawks

He has yet to lead his team to back-to-back winning seasons.
Only due to injuries. He's had a winning record as a starter for 4 years in a row.
If you want to argue that it's a shame that Vick can't stay healthy, I'd agree.
The same thing happened to Randall Cunningham.


Michael Vick has yet to complete more than 57% of his passes in one season.

He has not thrown more than 16 TDs in a season.

He's averaged 15 TDs and 11 INTs in his three full seasons.

Talk about mediocre numbers.

I never said Vick was a great pick for you fantasy team
better get Drew Brees and Eli Manning for that

Schaub's QB play has been better than Vick's. You can't compare win/loss totals because Schaub is the backup. I personally feel that Schaub would be a better west coast-style QB because he can throw the ball accurately and consistantly accurate. He has such limited experience and he's shown that to me.
Of course you can compare win-loss totals
they lose when schaub plays

[Illmatic]

Those two QBs are reasons Schaub should play.

Flutie won with the Bills, Brady won with the Pats, Schaub lost with the Falcons.

kind of ruins the comparison.

because he can throw the ball accurately and consistantly accurate

Schaub has completed 49% of his passes in his career. so not even stats can save you here.

[Endless Obsession]

Flutie won with the Bills.

You're crazy.

[Illmatic]

You're crazy.

hey he won more than Rob Johnson did.

[Endless Obsession]

hey he won more than Rob Johnson did.

Yeah, thats saying a lot! :p

But seriously I was living in Buffalo at the time, and I know first hand they were both god awful. I was always a Rob Johnson supporter, but neither really had any hope. And I damn near cried when Tennessee cheated to beat Buffalo in the playoffs.

[3074326]

Only due to injuries. He's had a winning record as a starter for 4 years in a row.

8-8 = not a winning season.


I never said Vick was a great pick for you fantasy team
better get Drew Brees and Eli Manning for that

I put stats in there because I was talking about how mediocre he is as a QB. He can run, but that's not what the QB position is about. A franchise QB should not throw 15 TDs and 11 INTs. But that's my opinion.


Of course you can compare win-loss totals
they lose when schaub plays

Matt Schaub has been a Falcon for two years (not including the current one). His rookie year he did not out-play Vick. Last year he threw 4 TDs and 0 INTs.

Also, last year Matt Schaub lost in his starts against Carolina and New England. Of course the Falcons are going to lose. I would like to add that Schaub played extremely well against both defense. Too bad the Falcons' defense had to give up big points in those games.

Flutie won with the Bills, Brady won with the Pats, Schaub lost with the Falcons.

kind of ruins the comparison.

Not really, they both turned out pretty well, didn't they?


Schaub has completed 49% of his passes in his career. so not even stats can save you here.

I addressed this in another part of this post, I'm not ignoring your comment. :p

[Unconditional_hate]

I knew people would be all over Vick. He's not overrated. He's a good runner and a bad passer, and wins games it's that simple. And people describe him exactly as that.

[3074326]

That's pretty much what I'm saying, but I think that makes him overrated because QBs are supposed to be able to throw the ball somewhat effectively.

[Illmatic]

I addressed this in another part of this post, I'm not ignoring your comment

no you didn't.

8-8 = not a winning season.

Vick went 8-7, the falcons lost one extra game. that Schaub started.

Not really, they both turned out pretty well, didn't they?

yeah because they won.

the Pats went from 0-2 to champs with Brady, the Bills went from 0-3 to the playoffs with Flutie.

Schaub still hasn't won a game.

the Pats invested a #1 pick in Bledsoe and before that season they gave him a 10-year contract extension, so they had a lot invested in him, so it's not like there was an open competition. the Bills traded a top 10 pick for Rob Johnson and even started him the next two years, so it's not as if either team would have just dropped Bledsoe or Johnson on a whim.

[3074326]

no you didn't.

Schaub played against two very good teams. He played very well against two very good teams. It's not his fault that the defense sucked. His rookie season shouldn't be held against him, but if we're doing that, okay. He's completed less than 50% of his passes in his career.

Last year his QB rating was 98.1. He showed a lot of improvement, something that Vick has yet to do. ;)



Vick went 8-7, the falcons lost one extra game. that Schaub started.

8-7 isn't really much better than 8-8. Still very mediocre.


yeah because they won.

the Pats went from 0-2 to champs with Brady, the Bills went from 0-3 to the playoffs with Flutie.

Schaub still hasn't won a game.


Schaub has proven he can play tough against good opponents. Look how he did against Carolina and New England. They lost both games, but he doesn't play defense and neither did the Falcons on either day.

He did play terribly against Minnesota. Can't argue with that.

[Illmatic]

Schaub played against two very good teams. He played very well against two very good teams. It's not his fault that the defense sucked.

The Patriots are a good team, but let's not lie, their defense was awful for most of last year. They couldn't stop anyone, especially in the first half of the year.

[Reaganista]

8-8 = not a winning season.

go back and reread

I put stats in there because I was talking about how mediocre he is as a QB. He can run, but that's not what the QB position is about. A franchise QB should not throw 15 TDs and 11 INTs. But that's my opinion.

I never said vick was a franchise qb
nobody thinks he's a franchise qb, he's like the most hated qb in the league
that's the only reason i said he was underrated
like i said earlier

Matt Schaub has been a Falcon for two years (not including the current one). His rookie year he did not out-play Vick. Last year he threw 4 TDs and 0 INTs.


so when/if vick gets hurt be sure to pick up schaub on your fantasy team
but i wouldn't bet on the falcons to cover the spread


Also, last year Matt Schaub lost in his starts against Carolina and New England. Of course the Falcons are going to lose. I would like to add that Schaub played extremely well against both defense. Too bad the Falcons' defense had to give up big points in those games.
yeah because offensive play has no impact on defensive and vice versa

[3074326]

The Patriots are a good team, but let's not lie, their defense was awful for most of last year. They couldn't stop anyone, especially in the first half of the year.

Good point. I forgot about the injuries. Still, I don't think Vick would've put up those numbers. :p Obviously can't prove that though.

go back and reread Why don't you go back and re-read what I posted? If you're happy with 8-7, that's sad. Winning season? Yes. Good season? No.

I never said vick was a franchise qb
nobody thinks he's a franchise qb, he's like the most hated qb in the league
that's the only reason i said he was underrated
like i said earlier

He's underrated because he's not a franchise QB and he's hated? I strongly disagree with that. I don't know how many times I hear people saying he's one of the best in the league.



so when/if vick gets hurt be sure to pick up schaub on your fantasy team
but i wouldn't bet on the falcons to cover the spread

Stats show something. Stop acting like they don't.


yeah because offensive play has no impact on defensive and vice versa

Alright, it's Matt Schaub's fault that the Falcons gave up all those points. Sorry, my mistake.

[apple pie]

Yeah, thats saying a lot! :p

But seriously I was living in Buffalo at the time, and I know first hand they were both god awful. I was always a Rob Johnson supporter, but neither really had any hope. And I damn near cried when Tennessee cheated to beat Buffalo in the playoffs.


Flutie had some heroics in the game, but that play is still in my mind, and to think they almost won tue superbowl.

[Illmatic]

tway has a point about Vick. the other guys have a point about Vick.

he's not exactly a "franchise quarterback" (although he could be effective if the Falcons staff didn't force him to run a West Coast Offense).

but come on you people, he isn't some hybrid of Andre Ware and Akili Smith like yall think he is.

at least he isnt as overrated as Peyton Manning.

[Rams]

Falcons have the most backwards offensive personel. They have two deep threats at WR, a QB who has a strong arm and can buy time with his feet, and running backs that don't point to a west coast offense. Logically they try to put in the west coast offense. Maybe they can employ Herm Edwards to run their 2-minute offense.

[Illmatic]

I know. it's like when Jim Cleamons forced Jason Kidd to run a triangle offense. he's being horribly mismanaged, and is not in an offense that utilizes his strengths.

and as a bonus, if Atlanta did run an offense that used mostly the run and mostly threw the ball deep if it did pass, it would be one of the few NFL teams that had an original offense.

[3074326]

I was actually coming into this thread to say I was done arguing about Vick.. it wasn't getting anywhere.

I didn't realize I was arguing with Tway. Sup Tway?

Illmatic, well said about the original offense thing. It's odd that they forced Vick into the West Coast offense before he was able to develop as a passer.

I hope I didn't start another fire with that last comment.

[apple pie]

at least he isnt as overrated as Peyton Manning.


Big Ben is more overrated then Manning, you can say the suprebwol, playoff factor, but in terms of straight numbers, Manning owns.

[Reaganista]

Why don't you go back and re-read what I posted? If you're happy with 8-7, that's sad. Winning season? Yes. Good season? No.

you said winning season
damn ESL kids

He's underrated because he's not a franchise QB and he's hated? I strongly disagree with that. I don't know how many times I hear people saying he's one of the best in the league.

um
ok then I'll tell you
0

Stats show something. Stop acting like they don't.

yeah they show how many fantasy points a guy is worth!
that's why I drafted Peyton Manning over Tom Brady

Alright, it's Matt Schaub's fault that the Falcons gave up all those points. Sorry, my mistake.
probably

[Illmatic]

Big Ben is more overrated then Manning, you can say the suprebwol, playoff factor, but in terms of straight numbers, Manning owns.

no because everyone calls Manning the best QB in the NFL when he is nothing but a loser, and has been since college (he never beat florida, won the SEC, or won a national title, and tennessee did all 3 the year after he graduated). he's the best fantasy football quarterback, but definitely not in real life.

[YDload]

I like the headline from The Onion that ran after Indy's divisional playoff loss: "Peyton Manning Refuses to Accept Congratulatory Phone Call from Dan Marino"

[apple pie]

no because everyone calls Manning the best QB in the NFL when he is nothing but a loser, and has been since college (he never beat florida, won the SEC, or won a national title, and tennessee did all 3 the year after he graduated). he's the best fantasy football quarterback, but definitely not in real life.


so does Dan Marino suck?

[Illmatic]

so does Dan Marino suck?

he's better than peyton manning (won in college, actually went to a Super Bowl) but he is definitely a little overrated.

[YDload]

Who was better: Marino or Moon?

Also, I think it's silly that Favre is trying to play in the NFL long enough to break Marino's records when Manning will probably break them all over again. Not that it makes Manning the best, but he's never had a season with fewer than 3,700 passing yards. He could easily pass Marino and Favre statistically (and the futility of the post-season will be familiar too!)

[Acey]

in thier prime, i would go with Marino, and i agree with your paragraph.

[Reaganista]

Farve wasn't futile in the postseason though
sometimes

and I pick marino over moon

[Illmatic]

Favre was mostly futile in the postseason. the one Super Bowl he did win, was mostly Desmond Howard and Reggie White.

i'd take marino over moon.

But would you take marino over elway or montana? that's why i think he's overrated.

[Hababi]

Favre was mostly futile in the postseason. the one Super Bowl he did win, was mostly Desmond Howard and Reggie White.


They wouldn't have reached the Superbowl with most any other QB. And, while he only won one, he appeared in two, and nearly reached a few others. Favre did that lacking the WR crew that Young and Aikman had.

I'm gathering that your top 5 QB's would read something like:

1) Montana
2) Aikman
3) Brady
4) Young
5) Bradshaw

??

[Illmatic]

they gave up 14 points to the Niners and then 13 to the Panthers, so it's not like Favre was bailing them out of big shootouts here.

I'm gathering that your top 5 QB's would read something like:

1) Montana
2) Aikman
3) Brady
4) Young
5) Bradshaw

Elway
Montana
Marino
Young
any number of guys that i'll fill in later

[Hababi]

they gave up 14 points to the Niners and then 13 to the Panthers, so it's not like Favre was bailing them out of big shootouts here.



Elway
Montana
Marino
Young
any number of guys that i'll fill in later

Elway? The dude only went 2 and 3 in Superbowls and didn't win them until he had Terell Davis doing the bulk of the work.

[YDload]

Elway? The dude only went 2 and 2 in Superbowls and didn't win them until he had Terell Davis doing the bulk of the work.

2 out of 5 :-/

but hey at least he never lost to Cleveland in any of those AFC championship games! always proving himself the best in the inferior conference, sort of like Fran Tarkenton in the 70s or Jake Delhomme now >:-]

[Hababi]

Or Jim Kelly in the 90's.

[Reaganista]

Steve young zwns dan marino man

[apple pie]

yah Jim Kelly back in the day, Broadway Joe if we wanna go back.

[Illmatic]

Elway? The dude only went 2 and 3 in Superbowls and didn't win them until he had Terell Davis doing the bulk of the work.

he went to three Super Bowls while coached by dan reeves (not a good coach at all) and with a mediocre team around them. Yet people seem to forget that while making excuse after excuse for Marino (who went to 1 early in his career and then never went back, with postseason highlights like losing 62-7 to Jacksonville and blowing the AFC championship @ home to the pats in 1985).

one of the Super Bowls was a gag (the one where Doug Williams lit em up in the 2nd quarter) but in the other 2 he ran into 2 of the best teams ever.

[Hababi]

he went to three Super Bowls while coached by dan reeves (not a good coach at all)


The dude coached a mediocre team led by Chris Chandler to a Superbowl appearance. Chris Chandler! C'mon, give the guy some props for that :p


one of the Super Bowls was a gag (the one where Doug Williams lit em up in the 2nd quarter) but in the other 2 he ran into 2 of the best teams ever.

Meh for calling him the best ever, you're making some excuses for him ;)

Yeah, the Giants and 49ers were great teams when he faced them. But the Rams were a great team when Brady beat them.

[Illmatic]

Yeah, the Giants and 49ers were great teams when he faced them. But the Rams were a great team when Brady beat them.

well, not quite, because coaching matters, and no team coached by Mike Martz is ever one of the best ever.

but I ain't gonna put Brady up there yet, give him another 5 years. why are so many people impatient these days?

The dude coached a mediocre team led by Chris Chandler to a Superbowl appearance. Chris Chandler! C'mon, give the guy some props for that

yeah but that was the modern NFL, so it doesn't really count.