what combo could handle a 5 string?

[hey]

ok so im getting a 5 string and im upgrading from my peavey 15 watt amp lol so would like a fender rumble 2x10 or 1x15 handle the low end of a 5 string? my friend had a 35 watt rumble and i think it sounds pretty good but i need something a little louder, and something to andle the 5th string, so will this handle it?

[HELLonWHEELS]

ok so im getting a 5 string and im upgrading from my peavey 15 watt amp lol so would like a fender rumble 2x10 or 1x15 handle the low end of a 5 string? my friend had a 35 watt rumble and i think it sounds pretty good but i need something a little louder, and something to andle the 5th string, so will this handle it?
the 15" speaker would be better for a more bassy sound. Both of those configurations will work. Are you sure you want a rumble though there is better stuff on the market. What your price range and what style of music do you play.

[hey]

i play rock music, but i play some blues every once in a while, my price range is probably around 350

[HELLonWHEELS]

The Fender Bassman series is much better than Rumbles. I would also look into some of the Ampeg BA series. Try to buy used too

[Rawb]

2x10's have just as much low end as a 1x15 imo. Plus they're punchier, so even better for wider range of tones.

[Phalanx]

the 15" speaker would be better for a more bassy sound. Both of those configurations will work. Are you sure you want a rumble though there is better stuff on the market. What your price range and what style of music do you play.

I disagree with the 15" comment. My amp has 2x10" and that handles a Low G wonderfully

[HELLonWHEELS]

I disagree with the 15" comment. My amp has 2x10" and that handles a Low G wonderfully
I said both wil work exept a 15' speaker will give you lower sound i play a 410 myself.

[blizzard]

Try out both if you can before you buy. They should both have a decent response for the low B its more personal preference.

[PainKiller8191]

question - can a 2X10 or 4X10 handle a low B? because that's the only thing keeping me from being set on my rig (that and money)
if i go no lower than a B, would 10" speakers hold it down?

[Akira]

I don't think size has as big an effect on clarity as people say. I mean down at like F# you might not want to solo 10s, but at a low B i think it really depends on the quality of the amp.
I don't know if I am right at all. Why don't you try to save for a 1x15 and a 2x10 for your rig?

[skingle]

I play a 5 string through a peavey TNT 115 and that does the job. I also owned a rumble before that and the Peavey is much better, and built like a tank.

[bassplayah]

i love the sound of a 5 string or a way tuned down bass through an 18" myself but the carvin redeye sounds pretty good with low strings although i question the wattage they claim for it.

[ebe9]

question - can a 2X10 or 4X10 handle a low B? because that's the only thing keeping me from being set on my rig (that and money)
if i go no lower than a B, would 10" speakers hold it down?


It ultimately depends on the frequency response of the cabinet.

If for arguments sake (I can't be arsed to find the post talkbass that had the exact frequencies of each note on each string) a low B vibrates at a frequency of 45Hz.

Then it does not matter if you have a 1X21 speaker if the cabinet is not tunned to be able to handle the lower frequencies.

E.g. The Hartke 2.5XL cab running 2X10 and a mid range speaker is able to go right down to 35Hz and the David Eden 2X10XST cab can drop all the way to 30Hz.

Both of those cabs have lower frequency response than a lot of 15 cabs I have seen.

So to answer you question, yes a 10 can handle lows, it just need to be a good quality driver (eminence is great) and it needs to be in an appropriatly tunned cabinet.

If you want, do a search for a program called WinISD, it allows you to see the frequency response ranges of a variety of speakers, depending on the volme of the cabinet they are placed.

Oh, and for a pointless factoid. The human ear can hear sounds ranging from 20Hz all the way through to 20KHz. However a humans hearing is at its best at the age of 10, after that it begins to degrade. The highest frequencies go first i.e. 20Khz, and it slowly makes its way down.

So in short, your guitarist will not be able to hear what he is playing due to hairing range loss before the bassist ever will.

[pitchfork]

The Fender Bassman series is much better than Rumbles. I would also look into some of the Ampeg BA series. Try to buy used too
Bollocks, the bassmans are less reliable than the rumbles not to mention they cost more.

Just look for a 1x15 amp, they should handle a low b okay.
I don't care what any of you say, 2x10 won't give as good a low B as a 1x15 unless we are talking expensive 2x10 against cheap 1x15.

[red n black]

So in short, your guitarist will not be able to hear what he is playing due to hairing range loss before the bassist ever will.

Not true. Do you know how high frequence your talking about. Aguitar don't reach that. Sorry for destroying your view of the world.

[pitchfork]

Yes its the anti child alarms they put by places where childs hang out that you can't hear, I can't hear them and i'm 17 so I guess i'm either deaf to that frequency or I have heard it so much i've tuned it out.

Probably hearing loss though, course now I use plugs.

[EADG]

the 15" speaker would be better for a more bassy sound.


Not necessarily.


My favourite piece of information I like to bust out in these arguments is that Jaquo III-X, who tunes to C#0-E1 (his highest string being a low E) uses a 4x10.

[HELLonWHEELS]

Bollocks, the bassmans are less reliable than the rumbles not to mention they cost more.

Just look for a 1x15 amp, they should handle a low b okay.
I don't care what any of you say, 2x10 won't give as good a low B as a 1x15 unless we are talking expensive 2x10 against cheap 1x15.
I have owned both of those amp and the bassman sounds a world better plus it has a lot more features. Expensive it is, but in the guitar world you get what you pay for the most part

[HaVIC5]

Not necessarily.


My favourite piece of information I like to bust out in these arguments is that Jaquo III-X, who tunes to C#0-E1 (his highest string being a low E) uses a 4x10.
Yeah, people think that the speaker size is what you need to "handle" a lower frequency. It's more about the quality of the signal processor. I actually think that smaller sized speakers are better for the lower notes, because they have much more definition that way.

[HELLonWHEELS]

Yeah, people think that the speaker size is what you need to "handle" a lower frequency. It's more about the quality of the signal processor. I actually think that smaller sized speakers are better for the lower notes, because they have much more definition that way.
Won't your sound be at a lower freq if the cone was bigger rather than smaller? Thats why tweeters are so small and sub woofers are big. So if the processors where the same going into a 10" and an 18" your sound will be lower with the 18" rather than the 10". I do agre that the smaller the cone the more controled your sound is(look at Phil Jones bass amps and the sound wonderful).

[sixner]

i used a Peavey TKO115 for a long time, playing with a 5'er the whole time... it held its own pretty well. Mind you, the TKO'S come in a variety of looks... peavey didint sort them out too well. if interested i can find you the good one (one i had and sold to a friend)
its got an extension for another cab (2x10 is ideal) i believe it was 75 watts?
:thumb:
-sixner

[thelowsoundofbass]

Won't your sound be at a lower freq if the cone was bigger rather than smaller? Thats why tweeters are so small and sub woofers are big. So if the processors where the same going into a 10" and an 18" your sound will be lower with the 18" rather than the 10". I do agre that the smaller the cone the more controled your sound is(look at Phil Jones bass amps and the sound wonderful).
Subwoofers aren't always bigger. Subwoofers are built differently, they have bigger magnets, larger speaker coils, and they have longer travel. Those are just a few of the things that make a subwoofer different. As a car stereo enthusiast my favourite size of subwoofer is either a 10" or even an 8".

lowsound

[sinister]

Soo my cab only has a response of 60hz ~ 20khz

what does that mean for my low B?

It still sounds and everything.

[EADG]

Soo my cab only has a response of 60hz ~ 20khz

what does that mean for my low B?

It still sounds and everything.


B0 (Low B string) is around 31 hz. It will still sound but you will get more overtones in the fundamental pitch/overtones ratio compared to a different amp with a lower range. I'd try something different.

[EADG]

Won't your sound be at a lower freq if the cone was bigger rather than smaller? Thats why tweeters are so small and sub woofers are big. So if the processors where the same going into a 10" and an 18" your sound will be lower with the 18" rather than the 10". I do agre that the smaller the cone the more controled your sound is(look at Phil Jones bass amps and the sound wonderful).


I'm not sure frequency is the word you're looking for, first of all. Whether you play a low B through a 1x21 or a 1x10, it has the same frequency. If it didn't, that means the pitch of your notes would change if you changed speaker size which we all know isn't true.

The note will not sound lower if played through a 10" speaker or an 18" speaker.

[thelowsoundofbass]

I'm not sure frequency is the word you're looking for, first of all. Whether you play a low B through a 1x21 or a 1x10, it has the same frequency. If it didn't, that means the pitch of your notes would change if you changed speaker size which we all know isn't true.

The note will not sound lower if played through a 10" speaker or an 18" speaker.
There will be more overtones, but it will still sound about the same. Different tone, but that is it.

lowsound

[HELLonWHEELS]

As i understand sound is just compressed air waves(or something like that having to do with air waves.....) so in a closed enviornment wouldn't the sound be lower throught a 15" speaker than a 8" weather it is through being played at a lower pitch or more overtones your sound will still be lower through the larger speaker.

[EADG]

There will be more overtones, but it will still sound about the same. Different tone, but that is it.

lowsound


Basically what I am trying to say. A lower freqency range lets you hear all of the lower overtones and the fundamental better.

[EADG]

As i understand sound is just compressed air waves(or something like that having to do with air waves.....) so in a closed enviornment wouldn't the sound be lower throught a 15" speaker than a 8" weather it is through being played at a lower pitch or more overtones your sound will still be lower through the larger speaker.


Sound is vibration. Hertz are used to measure how fast something vibrates. I think it's 100hz = 1 second as a reference point but I'm not sure. The faster the vibration, the higher the pitch. That's why as you go up the fretboard and shorten the string, making it vibrate faster, it sounds higher.


As for the 15" and 8" speaker deal, the pitch remains exactly the same no matter what size of speaker you play it through. If a certain amp/speaker setup has a lower freqency range, then you will hear more of the lower pitched overtones and possibly the fundamental. The speaker size doesn't matter.


Are bigger speakers generally used to produce lower frequencies? Yes.

Do bigger speakers automatically have a lower frequency range? No.

[HELLonWHEELS]

Are bigger speakers generally used to produce lower frequencies? Yes.

Do bigger speakers automatically have a lower frequency range? No.
if this is true than why do 15" and 18" speakers exist?

[thelowsoundofbass]

Sound is vibration. Hertz are used to measure how fast something vibrates. I think it's 100hz = 1 second as a reference point but I'm not sure. The faster the vibration, the higher the pitch. That's why as you go up the fretboard and shorten the string, making it vibrate faster, it sounds higher.


As for the 15" and 8" speaker deal, the pitch remains exactly the same no matter what size of speaker you play it through. If a certain amp/speaker setup has a lower freqency range, then you will hear more of the lower pitched overtones and possibly the fundamental. The speaker size doesn't matter.


Are bigger speakers generally used to produce lower frequencies? Yes.

Do bigger speakers automatically have a lower frequency range? No.
Hz measure sound waves and their cycles. Each hz is one cycle per second. So 1hz is one cycle per second and 100 hz is 100 cycles per second. (it could be per minute, but I am about 90% sure is is per second.)

Bigger speakers are not generally used to produce lower frequencies, subwoofers are generally used to produce lower frequencies. You can have a 30" speaker that is rated down to 1hz, but a 10" sub rated down to 30hz will reproduce a low B better. It is all about how they are built, subwoofers are ment to reproduce low frequencies and that is it, that is why they do it better. Most are rated between 100hz and 5hz, most regular speakers are rated up to 5000-10000 khz, the subwoofer is going to do a much better job.

lowsound

[thelowsoundofbass]

if this is true than why do 15" and 18" speakers exist?
Different tones, they can reproduce a low note better, but it isn't always true. See my post above.

lowsound

[EADG]

Bigger speakers are not generally used to produce lower frequencies, subwoofers are generally used to produce lower frequencies. You can have a 30" speaker that is rated down to 1hz, but a 10" sub rated down to 30hz will reproduce a low B better. It is all about how they are built, subwoofers are ment to reproduce low frequencies and that is it, that is why they do it better. Most are rated between 100hz and 5hz, most regular speakers are rated up to 5000-10000 khz, the subwoofer is going to do a much better job.

lowsound


I know subwoofers are used to produce low frequencies, but they tend to have big speakers. I've worked in a pro audio store and all of our bass bins had 18" speakers. Many bass cabinets which only have a freqency rating up to 4000 hz or so (subs, basically) have 18" speakers. Every sub does not have big speakers, no, but most of them do.


As for "You can have a 30" speaker that is rated down to 1hz, but a 10" sub rated down to 30hz will reproduce a low B better."

I don't get what this means. Is this a typo? The low B note is only 30hz, so why would it matter if the other speaker was rated down to 1hz? You can't get any lower than the fundamental, if I understand correctly.

[EADG]

if this is true than why do 15" and 18" speakers exist?


I should say go ask who invented them, because I sure didn't. But I'll try to answer that.


Because different speakers sizes work better with different amps, basically. Bigger speakers can produce bass frequencies better, but you seem to have the idea that a low B played through an 8" speaker and then a 18" is automatically going to sound different because of the size which is not true. It all depends on the frequency rating of the speaker, quality of the amp, electronics of your bass.. etc. Endless variables, really.

[HELLonWHEELS]

Different tones, they can reproduce a low note better, but it isn't always true. See my post above.

lowsound
Your kinda contradicting yourself. If a 15" can produce a lower tone how is that possible if speaker size doesn't make any differance?

My point is that for the most part a larger speaker will have more of a bassy sound because of the overtones.

[thelowsoundofbass]

Your kinda contradicting yourself. If a 15" can produce a lower tone how is that possible if speaker size doesn't make any differance?

My point is that for the most part a larger speaker will have more of a bassy sound because of the overtones.
A 8" subwoofer will produce a better low note than a 15" speaker.

lowsound

[EADG]

Your kinda contradicting yourself. If a 15" can produce a lower tone how is that possible if speaker size doesn't make any differance?

My point is that for the most part a larger speaker will have more of a bassy sound because of the overtones.


Speaker size does make a difference. However, speaker size doesn't make ALL of the difference. Get it? It's one variable out of so many other crucial details.

A larger speaker will not necessarily have a bassier sound. Speaker size does not equal frequency range.

[EADG]

A 8" subwoofer will produce a better low note than a 15" speaker.

lowsound


Bassicaly.

[HELLonWHEELS]

Speaker size does make a difference. However, speaker size doesn't make ALL of the difference. Get it? It's one variable out of so many other crucial details.
What is the difference?

[thelowsoundofbass]

I know subwoofers are used to produce low frequencies, but they tend to have big speakers. I've worked in a pro audio store and all of our bass bins had 18" speakers. Many bass cabinets which only have a freqency rating up to 4000 hz or so (subs, basically) have 18" speakers. Every sub does not have big speakers, no, but most of them do.
I competed in car stereo competitions for over a year, the best cars were all pushing 10's 12's or 15's, with 10's being the most common. I think that I only ever saw one 18" sub in competition and it got blown out of the water by my friends car that had 10's in it.

As for "You can have a 30" speaker that is rated down to 1hz, but a 10" sub rated down to 30hz will reproduce a low B better."

I don't get what this means. Is this a typo? The low B note is only 30hz, so why would it matter if the other speaker was rated down to 1hz? You can't get any lower than the fundamental, if I understand correctly.
It means that a sub with a higher rating than a regular speaker will be better at reproducing a low note. When you are dealing with sub vs a regular speaker the rating doesn't matter. BTW I just checked the rating on the subs in my car and they are rated 5hz-96hz.

lowsound

[EADG]

I competed in car stereo competitions for over a year, the best cars were all pushing 10's 12's or 15's, with 10's being the most common. I think that I only ever saw one 18" sub in competition and it got blown out of the water by my friends car that had 10's in it.
lowsound


Car audio... I know nothing of. In my experience with PA equipment and bass amps, subs tend to have bigger speakers though, surely you agree?




It means that a sub with a higher rating than a regular speaker will be better at reproducing a low note. When you are dealing with sub vs a regular speaker the rating doesn't matter. BTW I just checked the rating on the subs in my car and they are rated 5hz-96hz.


I understand, read it wrong. I thought you were comparing two cabinets, not a regular cab and a sub.

[HELLonWHEELS]

When your at the contests are the doors opened or closed?

[thelowsoundofbass]

When your at the contests are the doors opened or closed?
Closed, you want to have it totally enclosed so the SPL is as high as you can get it. After all that is the goal.

EADG: most PA subs that I have seen and worked with (soundguy here) are 15's or 18's so you are correct, but the bass drum is also going through that and that is very boomy and larger speakers have a more boomy sound. If you are putting a sub in your rig I would go for a 8" one because it would sound the best IMO. 5hz is really low, but I got it to go down to 1hz, you can hear it but it looks really cool.

lowsound

[EADG]

EADG: most PA subs that I have seen and worked with (soundguy here) are 15's or 18's so you are correct, but the bass drum is also going through that and that is very boomy and larger speakers have a more boomy sound. If you are putting a sub in your rig I would go for a 8" one because it would sound the best IMO. 5hz is really low, but I got it to go down to 1hz, you can hear it but it looks really cool.

lowsound



What's SPL?


Also not just PA subs, but bass subs (cabinets with a low frequency range and no tweeter or driver) tend to have bigger speakers too, from what I've seen. I think Jean Baudin's sub is 21".. but I'm not sure. I'd assume a smaller one might give better clarity, but a bigger one would allow you to feel the notes better.

[HELLonWHEELS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure

To lowsound- In a closed environment a 15' would be the same as a 10" but in an open rig it would be differant. I think

[thelowsoundofbass]

What's SPL?


Also not just PA subs, but bass subs (cabinets with a low frequency range and no tweeter or driver) tend to have bigger speakers too, from what I've seen. I think Jean Baudin's sub is 21".. but I'm not sure. I'd assume a smaller one might give better clarity, but a bigger one would allow you to feel the notes better.
Sound pressure level. When you feel bass, you are feeling the pressure level caused by sound. SPL is measured in decibels. Bigger ones will move more air, because, well, they are bigger. Yes you can feel it more, but I feel that you give up some sound quality with the bigger ones.

lowsound

[HELLonWHEELS]

I just had a theory. The more air a speaker can push the more bass it can get( i dunno why) so 15" speaker can physically move more air than a 8" speaker thus more bass.

[thelowsoundofbass]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure

To lowsound- In a closed environment a 15' would be the same as a 10" but in an open rig it would be differant. I think

With the exact same variables in both situations (wattage, ratings, all that fun stuff) a 15" would move more air in both situations and the 10" would have more clarity.

lowsound

[thelowsoundofbass]

I just had a theory. The more air a speaker can push the more bass it can get( i dunno why) so 15" speaker can physically move more air than a 8" speaker thus more bass.
Yes and no, it can move more air (duh) but it will be the same amount of bass. A 15" with the same variables as a 8" will have a higher SPL.

lowsound

[HELLonWHEELS]

I get that a 15" is less efficant. I don't understand why anybody buy them they seem to have no advatages

[thelowsoundofbass]

I get that a 15" is less efficant. I don't understand why anybody buy them they seem to have no advatages
I have a 15" combo and I love it, the tone works perfectly for me. Where does it say that a 15" speaker is less efficient? They are more efficient at moving air because of the surface area is bigger. Different tone is what it breaks down to without going into a bunch of physics.

lowsound

[HELLonWHEELS]

A 15" with the same variables as a 8" will have a higher SPL.
To my brain that means less efficent

[thelowsoundofbass]

To my brain that means less efficent
It means that it is more efficient, it moves more air and that is what a speaker or subwoofer is ment to do.

lowsound

[HELLonWHEELS]

Ahhh I'm kinda confused now but i think i get it. Im going ot head off to bed thanks for the lesson.

you have been given rep:thumb:

[EADG]

I just had a theory. The more air a speaker can push the more bass it can get( i dunno why) so 15" speaker can physically move more air than a 8" speaker thus more bass.


Please... no more theories.

[thelowsoundofbass]

Please... no more theories.
I already told him about how his theory is wrong.

lowsound