Community Thread

[Schyma]

I'm not sure if the ol' Zapster will approve of this but if he doesn't, he can always close this then ban me. I think a community thread will help speed up the forum by attracting more users, maybe establish a tighter community, and hopefully we can have just one thread that is actually consistent around here. I hope people will catch on.....

To get a conversation started, what has everyone in here been digging as of late? Personally, I've been really into Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker's Town Hall Concert (1945) and the more I listen to Freddie Hubbard's Straight Life, the more I'm seeing what a fantastic album it is, I'd say it now ranks among some of my favorite Fusion albums.

[Tillmon]

Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch
Jackie Mclean - Jacknife
Horace Silver - Cape Verdean Blues

And a few of my new LP's:
Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles - (one of my favorite albums of all time, and I love the cover art, I just had to have it on vinyl)
Grachan Moncur III - Evolution - rare, first pressing

And I also just saw the Wayne Shorter Quartet in San Diego:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/onefingersnap81/Christian%20Hernandez%20Quintet/quintetwayne.jpg
My quintet with Wayne

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/onefingersnap81/Christian%20Hernandez%20Quintet/brianbryan.jpg
Me with Brian

And my quintet played at the Long Beach Jazz Festival

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/onefingersnap81/Christian%20Hernandez%20Quintet/quintetlbjfafter.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/onefingersnap81/Christian%20Hernandez%20Quintet/quintetlbjf.jpg

[Liquid Force]

Jonny Lang- Smokin'
Jonny Lang- Lie To Me
Pretty much any John Scofield.

Thats what I have been diggin today.

Guilty Pleasure for the day: Jack Johnson:p(not jazz i know)

[Schyma]

Eric Dolphy - Out to LunchNice, I too am a fan. Probably my favorite Free Jazz album. If you like that, you should check out his Illinois Concert when you have a chance. Infact, when ever progmegood decides he shouls send out the mailing list you should be able to download it from it. (if you're on it that is)

[jazzfromhell]

I wish I had a jazz quintet/met Wayner Shorter and/or Brian Blade. :(


I actually haven't been listening to much jazz lately, I have a ton of albums in the mail, so when those get here I'll get back in the habit.

[Samuel]

Nice, I too am a fan. Probably my favorite Free Jazz album. If you like that, you should check out his Illinois Concert when you have a chance.The Illinois Concert is absolutely amazing.

Anyway, I've been listening Blue Trane, Oliver Nelson's Blues and the Abstract Truth, Kenny Drew's Impressions, and Mulgrew Miller's Hand In Hand. Great albums.

[jpj]

I haven't been listening to a whole lot of jazz lately, but I think the last jazz album I listened to happened to be Town Hall 1945, and yea, it's awesome.

[bigbadsnowman]

I'm going to a concert at the Artist's Quarter where there's some awesome jazz guys covering 'Out To Lunch'. It'll be pretty sweet.

[Joseph India]

Hey that "Out to Lunch" thing is on Thursday right?
I might have to check that out.
Listening to:
Louis Armstrong, early 30's big band stuff. It's really good. It upsets me that so many people think it's nothing compared to the hot fives and sevens of the 20's.
Anthony Braxton Trio (w/ Roidinger and Oxley) - Seven Compostions (1989)
And a lot of Mingus (Oh Yeah) and Coltrane (Live in Japan) as always.
--------
Here's another conversation starter

What standards/tunes do you obsessively play?

-Resolution (Coltrane)
-'Round Midnight - It just doesn't get old
edit: and I add - In the Still of the Night - Porter - 72 bar forms are so much fun.

[Schyma]

"How High the Moon" or (like you said) "'Round Midnight" would both be tops in this man's book.

I'm really digging the way this is starting out, keep it up. :)

[bigbadsnowman]

Yeah it's thursday, I'll for sure be there.

[Zappa]

Yeah, this is cool with me. I just post in the A&I one, though.

[jpj]

Anyone going to any shows in the near future (jazz or otherwise)?

I missed Bob Dylan tonight, which I'll probably never forgive myself for :upset: But hopefully I'll be seeing Steely Dan on the 30th, and then CSNY and Roger Waters in September.

[Schyma]

Yeah, this is cool with me. I just post in the A&I one, though.That's cool, we wouldn't want you in here anyway. :p

It kills me that I won't be able to see Jeff Beck. :(

[bigbadsnowman]

The most recent show I have seen is this awesome bassist playing at a Jazz festival.

Schyma, what instruments are in your quintet?

[Schyma]

I only wish I had a quintet, surely you're talking about Tillmon?

Speaking of awsome bassists, what is Stanley Clarke doing these days? Anyone a fan of School Days?

/????

[bigbadsnowman]

lol

Sorry about that late nights lately gets my mind messed up.

Yeah redirect question to Tillmon.

[jazzfromhell]

Jazz shows I'm going to this season, so far...Sonny Rollins, Alice Coltrane, and Andrew Hill.

[jpj]

Speaking of awsome bassists, what is Stanley Clarke doing these days? Anyone a fan of School Days?
He tours fairly regularly I think, I know he toured with Bela Fleck and Jean Luc-Ponty because they got nominated for a Jammy. His last album was in '03.

[jazzfromhell]

He was at Yoshi's last December, I think. I couldn't make it, though.

[halfdeadhippo]

I've honestly yet to hear School Days, but I really dig his work with the first few Return to Forever albums, which also happen to be what I'm digging as of late.

[Tillmon]

lol

Sorry about that late nights lately gets my mind messed up.

Yeah redirect question to Tillmon.

drums (me), bass, piano/keyboards, alto/soprano saxophone, and guitar. And for a couple gigs we've used a trumpeter, but only like twice.

[Rams]

Anyone know an online store to get jazz vinyls (lesser known labels in particular)?

Jazz shows I'm going to this season, so far...Sonny Rollins, Alice Coltrane, and Andrew Hill.

Sonny and Drew should be amazing shows. Sonny has one of the few legitimate bop trombone players in his band (his nephew) and works really well with Sonny's playing. I personally like his modern day work more than the stuff he came into the business with.

Andrew Hill must be really fun to see live. I've never heard him play something that really stuck with me, but his playing is never dull and he always seems to make it work. Who's he playing with?

[Zappa]

Those squiggly lines made me feel like I was in the "14 Year Old Princess" forum. So I got rid of them.

Yesterday I had a nice day hanging out with friends. Watching the video of our senior class and making fun of everyone, playing music with some guys, going to a garage sale, and watching Clone High.

That's a community thread post.

[bigbadsnowman]

drums (me), bass, piano/keyboards, alto/soprano saxophone, and guitar. And for a couple gigs we've used a trumpeter, but only like twice.

Sweet, I love the sax.

[jazzfromhell]

Anyone know an online store to get jazz vinyls (lesser known labels in particular)?

Well, there's always eBay, which should have most of what you're looking for. You also might try these:

http://www.gemm.com/ This site generally has everything I've ever looked for on it, with the exception of a few seriously out of print/rare recordings. However, keep in mind that it's probably about as trustworthy as eBay is.

http://www.dtmgallery.com/Main/index.htm Store in NY, carries lots of lesser-known artists. However, it's focused on more out/avant-garde music, from both rock and jazz.



Sonny and Drew should be amazing shows. Sonny has one of the few legitimate bop trombone players in his band (his nephew) and works really well with Sonny's playing. I personally like his modern day work more than the stuff he came into the business with.

Andrew Hill must be really fun to see live. I've never heard him play something that really stuck with me, but his playing is never dull and he always seems to make it work. Who's he playing with?


Sonny sounds great, I didn't know anything about his band, so that's good to hear. Hill will be playing Point of Departure, and Nels Cline will be playing different music by Hill after.

Personnel:
Anglo American Sextet
Andrew Hill, piano

Jason Yarde, saxophone

Greg Tardy, tenor saxphone
Byron Wollan, trumpet

John Hebert, bass

Eric McPherson, drums


Nels Cline Group
Nels Cline, elect.guitar

Bobby Bradford, cornet

Ben Goldberg, clarinets
Andrea Parkins, electric accordion

Devin Hoff, bass

Scott Amendola,

[Liquid Force]

Anyone going to any shows in the near future (jazz or otherwise)?

I missed Bob Dylan tonight, which I'll probably never forgive myself for :upset: But hopefully I'll be seeing Steely Dan on the 30th, and then CSNY and Roger Waters in September.

I saw Steely Dan with Micheal MacDonald a few weeks ago when they came here. It was a decent show. But anyways there is some jazz festival in a few weeks, not sure if I am going though.

[Tillmon]

I saw Steely Dan with Micheal MacDonald a few weeks ago when they came here. It was a decent show. But anyways there is some jazz festival in a few weeks, not sure if I am going though.

I saw them a few weeks ago too, I thought it was a great show, maybe they were having an off night when you saw them or something.

[Liquid Force]

I saw them a few weeks ago too, I thought it was a great show, maybe they were having an off night when you saw them or something.

Mabye..tbh i was quite miserable because it was pouring out the whole time and i was soaked. Their still a great band.

[masada]

The other day I was going to get an Alice Coltrane album, but I hadn't heard anything from it. Hm..

[Tillmon]

The other day I was going to get an Alice Coltrane album, but I hadn't heard anything from it. Hm..

I'll tell you what it's like from seeing her live... it's FREE, like, as free as it gets. No time, no nothing really. Occasionally a head, and then they just go for it.

Although, that's just her live show. I know that she also does some very straight-ahead stuff. So it depends on what album you get, I suppose.

[masada]

It was Journey to Satchidananda . Only $9.99.

[Tillmon]

It was Journey to Satchidananda . Only $9.99.

Yeah, that's one of her freer ones.

[Rams]

If Charlie Parker Were a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats


In related news, anyone know what song rips it's head off? Or am I just going crazy? Sounds so familiar.

[CaptainWaits]

The majority of my playlists these days have been Jazz (...and Afro-Cuban). I'm big into fusion/experimental groups like The Bad Plus, MMW, John Scofield, Metalwood, Charlie Hunter, Soulive, etc. I'm not much of a fan of classic jazz or swing....I only find myself commonly listening to The Ornette Coleman Trio, as he and they were a major influence for some of those bands I listed above (MMW and The Bad Plus especially...)

[Schyma]

Rams: I'm for some swing that fast paced and vocalized. Something similar to the Squirrel Nut Zippers but more authentic.

[Rams]

Sorry, I don't really listen to vocal jazz. Often I feel that the emphasis on words that singers bring really takes away from the other musicians there. There is definately some good vocal jazz out there though. Ellington's In A Mellotone with Ivie Anderson is remarkable. John Coltrane & Johnny Hodges is an excellent pop jazz album. Then there was Eddie Jefferson who was so original in his approach. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[bigbadsnowman]

Oh man. Tonight I went to the Artist's Quarter and heard the 'Out To Lunch' Quintet play. I will have to say I was blown away by the performance. I had to leave early because I will have to get up at 6 for conditioning. Bummer I couldn't actually hear their cover of 'Out To Lunch'.

[Joseph India]

Oh man. Tonight I went to the Artist's Quarter and heard the 'Out To Lunch' Quintet play. I will have to say I was blown away by the performance. I had to leave early because I will have to get up at 6 for conditioning. Bummer I couldn't actually hear their cover of 'Out To Lunch'.
Yeah, I missed that show. But hopefully I'll see that group sometime.
If you like avant garde stuff you should see Milo Fine do a 3 hour show at the Acadia Cafe on Tuesday September 5th. I dont know if you've been there but it's very small and a great room. They have improv music there every Tuesday.

[AmericanWeiner]

Setlist for a performance one and a half weeks from now-

A Night In Tunisia
All The Things You Are
Blue Monk
Caravan
Chameleon
C-Jam Blues
Just The Way You Are
Lover Man
Oleo
One Note Samba
Pent Up House
St. Thomas
Straight No Chaser
The Girl From Ipanema
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy
Red Clay
Killer Joe
Blue Train
The Preacher
Watch What Happens

I'm excited, but I'm know I'm going to be pulling some really long hours :X

[Joseph India]

Setlist for a performance one and a half weeks from now-

A Night In Tunisia
All The Things You Are
Blue Monk
Caravan
Chameleon
C-Jam Blues
Just The Way You Are
Lover Man
Oleo
One Note Samba
Pent Up House
St. Thomas
Straight No Chaser
The Girl From Ipanema
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy
Red Clay
Killer Joe
Blue Train
The Preacher
Watch What Happens

I'm excited, but I'm know I'm going to be pulling some really long hours :X
Nice
I love playing All the Things You Are. Anybody else love it too?
I like how you have Chameleon right in the middle there. That should be cool.
What do you play?

[Lydisk]

all the things you are is a great tune to play. its also easy to find a melody to play that fits over the changes.

EDIT:

Ps: Modz why dont we have a reviews banner thingy like A&I have?

[Schyma]

I'm no mod but I make the most logical guess, hardly anyone makes Jazz reviews it'd be annoying to see the same few albums for weeks. Maybe if they'd put one up, it'd encourage more Jazz reviews.

[Zappa]

Jazz reviews show up at the top of the "other" forum, because we don't have our own category on sputnik.

[AmericanWeiner]

Nice
I love playing All the Things You Are. Anybody else love it too?
I like how you have Chameleon right in the middle there. That should be cool.
What do you play?

guitar sir

[Schyma]

Does anyone know of a good Billie Holiday album they'd recommend?

[jazzfromhell]

If you know you love her, and want a lot of her, find yourself a copy/download of the Complete Verve or Columbia Recordings. 10 discs each.

If you're looking for a significantly cheaper buy, or want a safe blind buy, go for the Complete Commodore Master Takes or the Complete Decca Recordings (1 disc and 2 discs, respectively).

Of course, those reccomendations cater to my personal hatred and refusal to buy any non-complete collections, that would overlap with future buys. If you're downloading, it wouldn't matter, since you won't be wasting money. However, if you are buying, and you don't want or plan on wanting everything without having to waste money, you can pussy out and buy a greatest hits or one of the albums that the aforementioned collections are made up of. ;)

[bigbadsnowman]

Setlist for a performance one and a half weeks from now-

A Night In Tunisia
All The Things You Are
Blue Monk
Caravan
Chameleon
C-Jam Blues
Just The Way You Are
Lover Man
Oleo
One Note Samba
Pent Up House
St. Thomas
Straight No Chaser
The Girl From Ipanema
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy
Red Clay
Killer Joe
Blue Train
The Preacher
Watch What Happens

I'm excited, but I'm know I'm going to be pulling some really long hours :X

Oh man, very good setlist. I would have to say The Prophet is my favorite out of all those. The 'Out to Lunch' quintet played that last thursday it was spectacular.

[AmericanWeiner]

Ok guys that set list got relaxed, I hope.

C-Jam Blues
Straight No Chaser
Mercy Mercy Mercy
Red Clay
Killer Joe
Blue Train
Chameleon

That 19 song list is the goal for the whole year. I feel incredibly relieved.

[Zappa]

All great tunes.

[PDWAB]

How long is your set? I had about 30-35 tunes lined up for a three hour gig. But on the other hand, it was only a duo so we couldn't exactly play each one for 10 minutes.

[Rams]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IXkoKkUzypg

Possibly the greatest jazz combo I have heard.

[Zappa]

So I'm leaving for college tomorrow. This is jazzy, because Alice Coltrane is playing at the University of Michigan in September, and Dave Holland's bringing his Octet and Big Band ensembles in February. And I'm taking jazz combo.

[PDWAB]

Sweet, I love jazz combo. Doing any big band?

[Zappa]

Nah. I'm a performing arts technology major, and I definitely would not have gotten into UofM on my trumpet skills. I like playing the trumpet, but embarassing myself with the more casual combo groups is enough.

[PDWAB]

That's interesting, only SoM students really are good enough to do Jazz Combo here.

[Zappa]

I know, I was surprised when my advisor told me the combo groups were more relaxed. It's bass ackwards over there.

[PDWAB]

Sweet, I guess you can just hope you don't end up playing "Autumn Leaves" over and over and over again!

[Zappa]

Eh, wouldn't be so bad. I could really still use practice in soloing over an easy tune like that:upset:.

[PDWAB]

For reals? Dude the whole thing is just Em except for like two bars in the bridge!

[Eliminator]

Way to use this thread people.

I've been listening to Bitches Brew quite a bit lately, and I really don't get how it's so "chaotic". There's a lot going on, but it doesn't necessarily sound chaotic to me. It's a lot better than In A Silent Way, since that album has some pretty choppy splicing and it gets a little boring. I'll have to listen to it again soon.

John McLaughlin is probably one of my favorite guitarists now, after listening to some Remember Shakti and other stuff.

[CaptainWaits]

Anyone heard any/listen to Sex Mob?? A couple of the musicians played with Scofield on his Bump album....

Very cool unique band too. Kind of less complexed "The Bad Plus" type band.

[Schyma]

I really wish more people would post here, it's not much of a community thread. :(It's a lot better than In A Silent Way, since that album has some pretty choppy splicing and it gets a little boring. I'll have to listen to it again soon.I disagree, I used to think the same but now I think In A Silent Way is a perfect album. I used to love Bitches Brew more just because of how weird it sounds compared to anything else I've listened to but in reality, it's out of control and really is just a vast mess of music. It's almost funny how un-comfortable the musicians sound there and not to mention, it's far too long too.

This is a poem I've been working on recently, it's actually Jazz related and it's in tribute to my favorite guitarist. Tell me what you think:

Song for Django

Django and your Gypsy Jazz
Infectious rhythms fly
You give a swing and a dance
while the violin glides,
bass line dancing down our spines,
until the early morning sun
rises like a child in the sky.
Let luxurious melodies spin,
Let those sweet sounds float,
full and rich like marijuana smoke.
Django and your gypsy Jazz,
infectious rhythms fly,
hips and hearts rattle
like mad, mad, mad.
Ten thousand fires a frenzy
around your gypsy eyes.

~ Spencer Schyma

[jazzfromhell]

Schyma, when you say Bitches Brew is far too long, are you referring to the original album or the complete sessions? If you're speaking of the latter, I can understand, some of the tracks on the third and fourth discs are pretty lackluster (although there're some greats mixed in, as well), but as far as the original album goes...all gold, baby. Out of control it might be, but I think that's how it was meant to be. Even if it wasn't, I like it that way. All that chaos sounds great to me.

It's a nice poem, Django's my favorite guitarist, as well.

[Rams]

Everyone just bottom feeds on the mailing list, probably doesn't listen to any of it, and doesn't talk about it.

I don't like large Free-Jazz ensambles. The musicians don't keep enough space to actually hear something interesting enough to play. The larger ensambles work better with Avant-Garde where the musicians know what they are listening for.

[Schyma]

I talk about it whenever I can and I do very much listen to all of the music I download. :(

I thank whoever sent out that Dave Brubeck Quartet, it's ace material. I really like the first song and "Take Five".

[PDWAB]

Blue Rondo a la Turk? That's a great tune, I need to learn it on Vibes one of these days.

[Schyma]

If that's the one with the weird Turkish Folk rhythm, yes.

[Rams]

Don Ellis is all about Bulgarian rhythms. The joke was his band was so rhythmically adventurous they'd play "Take 5" in 4/4 time. What's even funnier was when he busted out a solo in 33/16 time.

[bigbadsnowman]

I uploaded 'Time Out'.

I really love the Dave Brubeck Quartet. They actually were one of the first jazz musicians I started to listen to. Every track on there is a winner.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GtxeJe58k

ahahaha

i was at the village vanguard four nights ago hehe

[some jive turkey]

Blue Rondo a la Turk? That's a great tune, I need to learn it on Vibes one of these days.

I'd love to hear that on vibes. That would be nice.

[Eliminator]

So my school jazz band is playing at some parent's night thing at my school around twelve hours from now.

It's pretty much pointless, so I don't really want to do it.

[Schyma]

I thought about joining Jazz band but then I actualy thought about it......

[CaptainWaits]

I was the drummer for my Junior High School band (grades 7-9), and then for my first year in High School (grade 10)....But after that the program got brutal and I quit...

[Eliminator]

I thought about joining Jazz band but then I actualy thought about it......

Easy credits ftw.

[Schyma]

There are way easier ways to get easy credit IMO. :p

Tupac

1971 - 1996

(I'm posting this where ever I go today^)

[Eliminator]

It's pretty easy when you don't try.

[pukeboy66]

yo fellas

[AmericanWeiner]

Easy credits ftw.

It's easy if you are ok with sounding terrible

[Eliminator]

It's easy if you are ok with sounding terrible

Exactly.

Nobody cares about our school's jazz band anyway.

[some jive turkey]

It's easy if you are ok with sounding terrible

You kind of have to sound terrible playing jazz for a while.

It's just something you jump into with both feet. Then, either you stay there until you learn to swim, or you get your feet wet and run back to the shore.

[Nipples]

sup? i made this in reason :D i think its pretty cool, thought id share with the funk guys/gals

http://media.putfile.com/goof-93

holy **** this forum is dead

[AmericanWeiner]

You kind of have to sound terrible playing jazz for a while.

It's just something you jump into with both feet. Then, either you stay there until you learn to swim, or you get your feet wet and run back to the shore.


wow hearing that actually makes me feel a lot more confident

When I first started playing with my college band, I was pathetic...my solos sounded like I had just picked up a guitar because I was so unused to playing with a full band (I'd literally never jammed with anything other than a guitar OR drum, never even together).

After a few weeks, a gig, and around 100 hours of practice, I've started opening up in the avenues I'm willing to take and laying down some really nice (better, at least) solos.

[some jive turkey]

Listen to a lot of joe pass, and you'll be on top of your game. He's the man.




jazz guitar is pretty difficult to be honest. I'm a drummer, but I used to play guitar (classical/rock/some jazz) for a few years.

The big challenges of Jazz guitar lie in:

learning a vast repetoire of standards (both chords & melody!)

developing a chord vocabulary (all those voicings and substitutions to make it interesting)

learning to sightread melodies in standard musical notation (instead of tab)
EDIT:
also learning to use chords and variations during your solos for accents and climactic emphasis, rather than higher pitches farther up the fretboard (like in rock shredding) will make your solos sound that much more mature.
Physically it takes the same ammount of energy to play a note at the 20th fret as it does the 2nd ,....it's not like playing a trumpet, the emphasis isn't built into the pitch.



It requires a lot of dedicated musicianship, and the typical competitiveness among jazz artists can sometimes frighten away jazz-noobs. I don't really like that, so I'm glad I could encourage you to feel more comfortable playing jazz.

[Rams]

"A consumer buys what he's told to buy. A listener appreciates variety and individuality."
-Andrew Hill

Ya'll should read Stanley Crouch's considering genius: writings on jazz. He plays up his favorites a little too much, but he has a really individual point of view on them (his Monk and Coltrane piece were rather standard). His essay on Bird was probably the most interesting; tearing down the notion he was a tormented soul and basically described him as a junkie with good muscle memory.

[some jive turkey]

that sounds pretty interesting.
Wasn't Crouch on the Ken Burns Jazz films?

[jazzfromhell]

Wasn't Crouch on the Ken Burns Jazz films?

Yes. His, Wynton Marsalis's, and the other guy (can't remember his name)'s limited viewpoints on jazz were basically why those movies turned into an extremely unbalanced disaster. If you want to learn a fair amount about the first forty years of jazz, then spend the remaining two discs (out of ten) learning bits and pieces about the remaining sixty, go for it.

[AmericanWeiner]

It's not so much that I can't play, it's more that I can't feel the music and don't know the songs well enough to know where they're going, so I can't really hear any melody lines in my head to play.

I really really hope that goes away eventually, or I'll probably forget music majoring :[

[Eliminator]

I've come to the conclusion that "Zoot Suit Riot" is my new victim of hate.

Damn fast triplets.

[pedro durruti]

Hey, I'm looking for some jazz with lots off bass, any recommendations?

[AmericanWeiner]

I've come to the conclusion that "Zoot Suit Riot" is my new victim of hate.

Damn fast triplets.

fast ones are easier than the slow ones :) night in tunisia ftw!

[Eliminator]

The problem with "Zoot Suit Riot" is that the triplet thing comes in when everybody else rests, basically. So if I **** up, which I do, then it's pretty audible.

I should really start practicing a lot. I haven't done so since like the first year I played.

[Rams]

Hey, I'm looking for some jazz with lots off bass, any recommendations?

Honestly, in jazz, there are very few instances where the musicians aren't apt enough to play the music. With an instrument as popular as the bass, almost any jazz album should do. Charles Mingus' early works, Scott LaFaro's work with Bill Evans, Oscar Pettiford's '40s work, and anything Dave Holland is playing today are fine enough places to start.

Yes. His, Wynton Marsalis's, and the other guy (can't remember his name)'s limited viewpoints on jazz were basically why those movies turned into an extremely unbalanced disaster. If you want to learn a fair amount about the first forty years of jazz, then spend the remaining two discs (out of ten) learning bits and pieces about the remaining sixty, go for it.

I've never watched Burns' documentary, never cared to. It's strange that Marsalis sparked a resurgence in jazz interest, yet they don't talk about stuff after the '60s. I personally feel the real golden age of jazz came after Miles sold out.

[jpj]

Bill Evans' Portrait in Jazz has some of the best bass playing, jazz or otherwise, that I've ever heard. Then of course there are your solo jazz bassists, Wooten, Miller, Clarke, etc.

[jazzfromhell]

I've never watched Burns' d0cumentary, never cared to. It's strange that Marsalis sparked a resurgence in jazz interest, yet they don't talk about stuff after the '60s. I personally feel the real golden age of jazz came after Miles sold out.


You're better off, it's pretty much a waste of time. I stopped after seven DVDs, realizing what was wrong with the picture (at the end of the seventh, they were at 1945), and have read many accounts of what's wrong with the rest of the series. It's not that they don't talk about post 60's jazz, it's that they don't believe that fusion or avant-garde/free are really "jazz", so that takes away the need to talk about the majority of innovation that occurred from the 60's onward. According to the documentary, jazz was "dead" from the early/mid 60's until Marsalis came in in the late 70's and saved the whole picture. :rolleyes:

[Broken Arrow]

i never realized there was a community thread here.

I don't listen to much jazz (only the more popular stuff) but I do like the blues alot.

[Rams]

According to the d0cumentary, jazz was "dead" from the early/mid 60's until Marsalis came in in the late 70's and saved the whole picture. :rolleyes:

Wynton was really different though, even if it was just to go back to the sameness we all knew/loved. I like a fair amount of the music that Crouch detests, but I agree with his reasoning on most of it. The musicians started believing their music was now an "art" and they felt the need to constantly expand and be original in it. Some truly innovate and express in the new found concept of "jazz" but most seem to fail hard. Without Wynton though, I dunno if there would be as many awesome young artists or any interest in some of the veterans.


On a side note, I haven't been to a better show than Wynton Marsalis live.

[John Paul Harrison]

I don't listen to much jazz (only the more popular stuff) but I do like the blues alot.

12-bar for life, yo.

[jazzfromhell]

Wynton was really different though, even if it was just to go back to the sameness we all knew/loved. I like a fair amount of the music that Crouch detests, but I agree with his reasoning on most of it. The musicians started believing their music was now an "art" and they felt the need to constantly expand and be original in it. Some truly innovate and express in the new found concept of "jazz" but most seem to fail hard. Without Wynton though, I dunno if there would be as many awesome young artists or any interest in some of the veterans.


On a side note, I haven't been to a better show than Wynton Marsalis live.

Before I say any of this, let it be known that I haven't gotten around to listening to Wynton Marsalis, so I don't pass judgement on its worth. Everything that I say on it is as I understand it coming from other people, both those who like him and those who don't.

I understand your points, but I still don't think that Marsalis deserves the reputation of having "saved" jazz, just by returning to its roots (once again, as I understnad it, that's basically what he did, if he really did change the music itself, feel free to correct me), while Miles Davis (I really don't like the music he was making around the time Wynton came around, everything he made after returning from retirement really isn't my thing, but at least it was going somewhere), Anthony Braxton, Cecil Taylor, etc. were all still trying to push forward. I guess all in all, Wynton has had both a postive and negative effect on the music: like you said, it does seem like he's rekindled interest in it far more than anyone else has, but at the same time, he's promoted what I see as a more conservative viewpoint of jazz. All in all, you know way more about the past 25 or 30 years of jazz (actually, about jazz itself, but I think the gap is wider in that area), so your opinion is more valid than mine, but I figured I'd say my piece.

[Rams]

All in all, you know way more about the past 25 or 30 years of jazz (actually, about jazz itself, but I think the gap is wider in that area), so your opinion is more valid than mine, but I figured I'd say my piece.

What the **** is wrong with you? Why don't you take pride in anything you say, instead of being sheepish and just following what someone else says? With something as personal as music, there is no point in simply believing something because of what someone else said. People tell me all the time Coltrane was the best. To me? Coltrane sucks, he symbolizes everything wrong with jazz from unimaginative arpeggio runs to disregard of themes and ideas. Form your own opinion, and stop being such a spineless jackass about it.

[jazzfromhell]

****, I had a long response to that, but the system logged me out before I finished it, now it's gone. Anyway, I'm basically telling you, as well as anyone reading this, that I don't know **** about these "awesome young players" you're talking about. I don't know who they are, I don't know what kind of music they play, and I don't know what level Wynton Marsalis influenced or inspired them on. So, I'm letting everyone know that, while you may or may not be right, you're the person to ask about the last 25 years of jazz, not me. I don't have a right to an opinion on it, I know practically nothing about it. Am I really a spineless jackass for not forming an opinion on something that I don't know anything about?

[Rams]

You obviously know/believe/think something or else you wouldn't have said anything disagreeing with me. Just stop conceding you are wrong on every turn.


James Carter does a fantastic tribute to Django, which is quite weird for a saxophonist to do.

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."
-Thelonious Monk

[Zappa]

Punching bitches is like walking chihuahuas.

[PDWAB]

I've heard that quote attributed to like 30 different people.

FAKE EDIT: both quotes

[Samuel]

You're better off, it's pretty much a waste of time. I stopped after seven DVDs, realizing what was wrong with the picture (at the end of the seventh, they were at 1945), and have read many accounts of what's wrong with the rest of the series. It's not that they don't talk about post 60's jazz, it's that they don't believe that fusion or avant-garde/free are really "jazz", so that takes away the need to talk about the majority of innovation that occurred from the 60's onward. According to the d0cumentary, jazz was "dead" from the early/mid 60's until Marsalis came in in the late 70's and saved the whole picture. :rolleyes:

Haha, I had to watch all ten of them for a Jazz History course. It's so terribly unbalanced that it's just funny. I think it was during the seventh that they were still talking about Louis that I started to get pretty tired of the things.

That, and whether you like Wynton's music or not, you're ready to stab him in the eye with a rusty spoon by the end of the series.

[Rams]

For my money's worth, there is no better avant-garde jazz album than David Murray's Octet Plays Trane. "Naima" is perfect on it; no one has played it better. The band makes the transition between the head and solos (which play on the melody of the head as opposed to just the harmony) seamless. Murray's "Crossing" is a great connector between Trane's "Naima" and "India".

[some jive turkey]

Yes. His, Wynton Marsalis's, and the other guy (can't remember his name)'s limited viewpoints on jazz were basically why those movies turned into an extremely unbalanced disaster. If you want to learn a fair amount about the first forty years of jazz, then spend the remaining two discs (out of ten) learning bits and pieces about the remaining sixty, go for it.

Yeah, ...the series may as well just be called "Ken Burns Armstrong"

When Burns made those New York City and Jazz films about 5 years ago everyone was ****-happy about him for a moment,....but to me he just seems like some clueless wide-eyed goof who crawled out of the backwoods of New Hampshire to make stupid documentaries.

[some jive turkey]

That, and whether you like Wynton's music or not, you're ready to stab him in the eye with a rusty spoon by the end of the series.

I've never been able to figure out why so many people hate Wynton. He's not my personal favorite, but he's a talented trumpet player, isn't he?

I think what people dispise about him so much is that maybe he's the first largely sucessful jazz musician that represents a non-modernist approach to jazz playing. He seems content to just play jazz as it is, and for some reason that bugs people.

Is Wynton to blame for the more "conservative" outlook on jazz?....like it's classical music now?
Is he to blame for making it academic?
Is he to blame for making a lot of local jazz ****ty and bourgeois?

hey, I'm just asking the questions,....not answering them

[Samuel]

I've never been able to figure out why so many people hate Wynton. He's not my personal favorite, but he's a talented trumpet player, isn't he?

I think what people dispise about him so much is that maybe he's the first largely sucessful jazz musician that represents a non-modernist approach to jazz playing. He seems content to just play jazz as it is, and for some reason that bugs people.

Is Wynton to blame for the more "conservative" outlook on jazz?....like it's classical music now?
Is he to blame for making it academic?
Is he to blame for making a lot of local jazz ****ty and bourgeois?

hey, I'm just asking the questions,....not answering them

Man, I like Wynton, just as long as I don't have to listen to him talking about Louis, and whatever other random **** he had running through his head. He comes off as an arrogant ****, and he is just downright annoying throughout most of those videos.

Says the person with a Keith Jarrett avatar, granted.

[some jive turkey]

Really, ....see, I don't even remember him being that annoying in the Burns videos ,(if that's what you're talking about)


lol
yeah, those Jarrett faces are far more annoying.

[Rams]

Man, I like Wynton, just as long as I don't have to listen to him talking about Louis, and whatever other random **** he had running through his head. He comes off as an arrogant ****, and he is just downright annoying throughout most of those videos.

Says the person with a Keith Jarrett avatar, granted.

Jarrett is just obnoxious because he isn't funny and tells all these bad anecdotes basically patronizing other musicians. He was unbearable to watch on that Miles DVD about the Isle of Wight.

People seem to get really up and arms about the Jazz documentary. Do they atleast touch on the important, although less heard of musicians during early part of jazz? Someone should do a book on important but fallen jazz musicians like Jabbo Smith, Chu Berry, Freddie Green, and Lennie Tristano. I bet some day Johnny Hodges will be in that list.

[Samuel]

Jarrett is just obnoxious because he isn't funny and tells all these bad anecdotes basically patronizing other musicians. He was unbearable to watch on that Miles DVD about the Isle of Wight.
Yeah, he's pretty irritating.


People seem to get really up and arms about the Jazz d0cumentary. Do they atleast touch on the important, although less heard of musicians during early part of jazz? Someone should do a book on important but fallen jazz musicians like Jabbo Smith, Chu Berry, Freddie Green, and Lennie Tristano. I bet some day Johnny Hodges will be in that list.
I seem to remember that it touched on Freddie Green and Lennie Tristano. Very little coverage, though.

[Lydisk]

jarrett is a funny man.

anyone watched his DVD "art of improvisation"

LAWL

[jazzfromhell]

As I recall, Freddie Green was mentioned pretty much only as being part of Basie's knock-out rhythm section. For all the time they spent on Benny Goodman (not even that important, unless you just want to talk about the most famous), they sure didn't give Basie a fair shake. He got some time, but I just can't believe how much time they spent on Benny Goodman.

[AmericanWeiner]

My bandteacher is always all

Man, you gotta be like freddy green *strum motion* chunk chunk chunk chunk, man you could set your clock by that guy man the drummer could leave, grab a bite to eat, and come back and freddy would still be in time.

Then he breaks off into something like man I want somethin headbanging! I want some ted nugent stuff!

wtf I can't play rock :(

[Eliminator]

my teacher is like "glenn miller isn't jazz!" and throws a pencil

[Zappa]

Last night, I saw Alice Coltrane's Quartet play one of three concerts for John Coltrane's 80th birthday. It was really incredible. Roy Haynes blew my mind as expected, Ravi Coltrane was WAY beyond my expectations, and Alice did some really nice stuff. Charlie Haden was not loud enough for me to hear in ensemble parts, especially in drummier passages, but his solos were all very solid. There was a beautiful balance between reverence and transcendence of the John Coltrane legacy in the program. They played Trane's "Impressions," "Leo" (a fantastic choice from one of his latest albums), and "A Love Supreme" (as a second encore), mixed with Alice originals, an Indian folk song, and unannounced titles that I didn't recognize. They treated the classic material in a way that was not mimicry of the 1960s recordings, and had a lot of individual personality. I loved to hear that Ravi had a style that was not at once comparable to his father's, and on some of the classic Trane tunes, Alice played electric organ in a manner that did not at all elude to McCoy Tyner's block chord approach to the acoustic piano. All in all, it was just a very enjoyable, beautiful concert. I cried a little bit during "A Love Supreme." You could just feel it throughout the entire auditorium.

[Eliminator]

/envy

[Zappa]

I know man.

[Anxious]

bitch

[Eliminator]

bitch

[Joseph India]

Last night, I saw Alice Coltrane's Quartet play one of three concerts for John Coltrane's 80th birthday.
ditto on the envy
Did they play all of A Love Supreme or just Acknowledgement?

I celebrated Coltrane's Birthday like a holiday and listened to Meditations and his last record "the Olatunji Concert."

[Zappa]

ditto on the envy
Did they play all of A Love Supreme or just Acknowledgement?

I celebrated Coltrane's Birthday like a holiday and listened to Meditations and his last record "the Olatunji Concert."

Just "Acknowledgement."

[jazzfromhell]

I'm seeing them in November, I don't know if it'll be as focused on John as the concert you saw, but it should be fantastic no matter what they play. I'm excited.

[Zappa]

I'm amazed that there's more than one of us getting to catch this rare opportunity. I'm sure you'll enjoy the show, man.

[Eliminator]

I'm listening to Alice Contrane right now. Go me.

[Rams]

Jimmy Smith's The Sermon! is the best jazz album, period.

[jazzfromhell]

Rams is trying to get some discussion going in here, so I'm going to help out and try and get things rolling, as well. In response to your last two posts in here, both of which have been in that nature:

My favorite avant-garde/free jazz album is Cecil Taylor's One Too Many, Salty Swift & Not Goodbye. This is two maxed-out discs of pure Cecil Taylor Unit chaos (not always at the loudest and most furious, but definitely not within any barriers). The first third of the first disc is solos and duets of all the players except Cecil, then he gets in and it's a free ride all the way to the end of the second disc. I couldn't tell you exactly why I like this more than the other 60's-70's Cecil Taylor Unit recordings I have (Unit Structures and Conquistador, I love both), I guess I just think the group has better chemistry. This is a fantastic album on HatHut, pick it up if you can. I've wanted to get Nefertiti: The Beautiful One Has Come for forever, but it's really expensive for an in-print, non-limited edition two disc. One of these days...

My favorite jazz album period is Miles Davis's Bitches Brew (which sounds kinda avant-garde or free to me, but I wouldn't really put it in the same category. I dunno, avant-garde/free has always been pretty difficult to categorize). I ahve the complete sessions, usually I just listen to the first two discs, which have all of the original album and a few more tracks. The other two discs are good, but nowhere near on the same level. Some people think that this album is too loose and out of control...if that's the case, then forgive me, but loose and out of control is the best-sounding music I've ever heard. I love the way this album swirls up and down, ebbs and flows, even the obvious cuts sound great to me, they're like being in a trance before snapping back to reality.


Rams, I'd put up my comments on the two albums you listed, but I haven't heard either (I could've sworn I had either outtakes or live cuts of the David Murray, but I must never have downloaded them). I've really fallen off the ball on Jimmy Smith, I need some of his stuff.

[Eliminator]

My favorites are either The Shape of Jazz to Come or Bitches Brew. I haven't really heard enough for my opinion to really be worth much. Oh well.

[Rams]

I went to a CD store today, because that's what you do in CHI town besides doing homework and being an obnoxious Bears fan. They didn't have any Lee Morgan outside of the Sidewinder. How is that possible? Lee is the trumpet player I seem to overlook the most, because he felt like such a Brownie clone.

Apparently Don Ellis recorder a CD backed by Byard and Ron Carter. Half.com has it for $50 (apparently I've owned it for about a year too O_o). Ellis was amazing, such a unique trumpet player. I want to hear him with George Russell's big band alongside Steve Swallow and Eric Dolphy.


I didn't like Nefertiti all that much. And I absolutely hate Unit Structures. I think Cecil (and to an extent free jazz in general) benefits from being in a small band setting, such as solo, duets, or trios. Silent Tongues, The World of Cecil Taylor, Student Studies, and Spots, Circles and Fantasy are my favorite recordings from him. Han Bennink really shines on the last one there, putting on a drum clinic.

[jazzfromhell]

My saxophone teacher was showing me some Don Ellis a couple weeks ago. He seemed pretty interesting and talented. The odd time signatures seemed like a bit of a gimmick, but Rahsaan using multiple instruments at the same time might seem like a gimmick, to the uninitiated. I have yet to look any further into him, any albums you'd reccomend?

As for your CD store, I don't know what kind of store it was, but I gave up long ago on looking anywhere but independant record stores for jazz. Luckily, there are plenty of these in the bay area. Did you try looking for some of his stuff with Art Blakey? It's not exaclty likely if they only have that much of his own albums, but there's a possibility that they'd have some stuff from when Morgan was in the Messengers. He's another guy who I haven't really explored. I have him on Coltrane's Blue Train and Art Blakey's Moanin', his playing is good on both, although nothing that really grabs me. I need to get Sidewinder.

[Zappa]

If Lee Morgan doesn't grab you, you're not very much like me.

[Rams]

My saxophone teacher was showing me some Don Ellis a couple weeks ago. He seemed pretty interesting and talented. The odd time signatures seemed like a bit of a gimmick, but Rahsaan using multiple instruments at the same time might seem like a gimmick, to the uninitiated. I have yet to look any further into him, any albums you'd reccomend?

Don Ellis At Fillmore, Electric Bath, or Tears of Joy. He has a CD somewhere a long the line where Tom Scott is the altoist, and Tom Scott is good when he isn't doing his blend of fusion and smooth jazz.



I ended up getting Wynton Marsalis Black Codes instead which had no energy to it.

[Schyma]

Let's bring this back; hopefully it'll be more successful.

What's a good Billie Holiday album I should get?

[CaptainWaits]

I'd just recommend a collection of her songs, like a greatest hits. I have her "Forever Gold" album, and it hits her good songs.

Currently I'm listening to these guys a lot:

Medeski Martin and Wood
The Bad Plus
Charlie Hunter Quartet
Dave Holland Band
Isotope 217
John Scofield
Sex Mob
Happy Apple
Soulive

[Mr. Black]

Can't say I know enougg from thems, however, I recently came into the possession of 'In A Soulful Mood' by a certain Mr. Parker. Riveting stuff.

[jazzfromhell]

Let's bring this back; hopefully it'll be more successful.

What's a good Billie Holiday album I should get?

Complete Decca Recordings or Complete Commodore Master Takes are good, cheap (unless you're talking downloading, in which case price isn't a factor) starting places. If you real feel up to it and love Billie enough, go for one of the 10 disc-ers (Complete Verve and Columbia Recordings). If you don't, but still want more than the other two, go for compilations or single recordings that those sets are made up of.

Animosity, I might go to see Dave Holland in a couple months, not sure if I'll go yet.

[CaptainWaits]

Animosity, I might go to see Dave Holland in a couple months, not sure if I'll go yet.
You need to go!!! Do you like Holland at all?? He'll probably be playing quite a few cuts from his newest album too, which is close at the top of Holland IMO. And his current drummer Nate Smith will probably be supporting him. The guys great!

So yeh, I'd go if I were you. Where would you be seeing him?

[Rams]

Dave Holland is fun. His two duet albums with Sam Rivers are surreal. His recent big band albums have been sweet too. If Chris Potter is going to be there with him, it's a must go. Potter is the best.

[Thanks]

That reminds me that I need to get tickets to see Holland with Octet and his Big Band later this month. It's probably really soon and I'm ****ing up.

[Anglachel]

Can someone give me a J,F&B list for noobs who want to listen to more?

[Zebra]

Can someone give me a J,F&B list for noobs who want to listen to more?

your avatar looks strangly familiar. what's it from?

[Anglachel]

Chrono Trigger

Its Robo

EDIT: Got list from other noob thread
>_>
<_<

[Samuel]

That reminds me that I need to get tickets to see Holland with Octet and his Big Band later this month. It's probably really soon and I'm ****ing up.

That's cool. I just saw his sextet the other week. Had Eric Harland on drums, Mulgrew Miller on Piano and Antonio Hart playing alto. Easily the best live show that I've ever seen, the group is outstanding. Eric Harland is just ****ing nuts.

[Schyma]

What's a good latin swing album I should get?

[Rams]

Saw Keith Jarrett at the Chicago Symphony Hall tonight. Solo piano, complete improvisation, 5 encores, fun. It was recorded too, so I suggest you all check it out when/if it comes out on CD.

[Broken Arrow]

How long does a show like that last?

[CaptainWaits]

What's a good latin swing album I should get?
Freddie Hubbard - Open Sesame

^Phenomenal album.

[Rams]

How long does a show like that last?

It was from 8pm to 10:30pm, but a fair amount of it was downtime.

[The Antique]

Did he just chill and talk about how awesome he was?

[Zebra]

I've really been digging Miles Davis' In A Silent Way. I'm planning on getting Filles de Kilimanjaro next, how does it compare?

[Rams]

Filles De Kilimanjaro is my favorite Miles' album.

[Eliminator]

I was going to buy it once.

[Zebra]

So was I. Now I think I will.

[CaptainWaits]

I much prefer Miles' live material over his stuido albums.

[Mr. Black]

so how is everyone doin

I'm all diddly, we're doin this project in music, and my group chose the Blues, so I'm goin to have dust off the ol' blues music. Can't wait for the final performance. We we're gonna do 'Tin Pan Alley' and four other blues songs. shoiuld be really nice. :)

Everyone else?

[badtaste]

Go community.

Can anyone recommend me a Weather Report type band, but slightly more energetic or aggressive? I'm looking for a cross between WR and LTE.

[Zebra]

Medeski, Martin and Wood? Maybe.

[Rams]

Go community.

Can anyone recommend me a Weather Report type band, but slightly more energetic or aggressive? I'm looking for a cross between WR and LTE.

Area
Bozzio, Levins, & Stevens
Brand X
The Eleventh House
Jean-Luc Ponty
Jonas Hellborg & Shawn Lane


I have a friend who's really into german fusion, which sounds like what you are describing. I can ask him if you want.

[MNdrummer21]

^what he said. I especially second the Brand X suggestion, they've got some great stuff thats really aggressive, funky, and fusiony.

[badtaste]

Yeh, alright then, I'll try track down some of those bands. Yeh, basically I'm a fan of Weather Report's energetic stuff (Black Market, Teen Town), but am usually too impatient for their softer, mellow stuff (I'll listen to it though).

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

http://cdn.kjzz.org/music/interviews/2006/georgebenson/georgebenson.mp3

kewl