A guide to surving the first year of having a band.

[Aus_rock_god]

A band's first year is often the most fun, and the hardest.

In this thread, we discuss what our bands have been though and offer advice to young rock gods on what to do in the first year.


The top 6 biggest mistakes bands make in their first year (that lead to them splitting up)

6. The band is formed from the best musicians in town... but they're into completely different music.

Every musician on the planet firmly beleives that his musical style is the best musical style on the planet. When you get a whole bunch of musicians in a band, who are the best at their instruments, but hate eachother's influences, it's set up for disaster.

For example, your bassist (who's into Jazz and Funk) will hate the way your drummer (a metal head) uses a lot of double kick. Your drummer will hate your singer (who listens to pop) and your singer will think that the lead guitarist (who's into shred and blues) is a tool and your rythem guitarist (who's into roots) will just sit there strumming away sadly, not knowing what all this noise is about.

Even if you think it will be the most out of it's mind, crazy, original music, it will only end in tears.

5. The band is formed by one songwriter, who grabs any musician he can in order to get his music out there, and doesn't care that his own band can't play their instruments.

What will happen, is you'll have one guy who is a brillient singer/guitarist/whatever, backed up by 2 or 3 guys that can't play. The songwriter will crack the ****s and the other guys will have no idea why.

4. The band changes their musical style whenever they feel that they're not getting a following.

This goes back to everyone needing a similar taste in music in the first place. If you're not getting a following you're either:

- Writing crap music

or, more likely

- Playing at the wrong venues, supporting the wrong bands, entertaining the wrong people.

NEVER change your musical style because you feel it isn't popular.

3. The band becomes more concerned with playing well, then actually enjoying their instruments and, more to the point, being entertaining.

Remember, when people go to see a band, they go to be entertained.

Music is an interpretation of how you feel. If you can't back your skill up with playing expressivly, and with total and utter joy, you'll start to sound, and feel, very plain.

2. One member of the band decides he knows what direction to go in better than the rest of the band.

Again, this will only lead to tears. Everyone who listens to music knows what they like. No one member of the band has any more say about their band than any other.

1. The band isn't willing to do covers, and 'only wants to do originals'.

This is the biggest mistake you can make. The best thing to do with a band, is learn eachother's influences. When you first form, get everyone to write down their 5 favorite songs, and then have the band learn all of them.

Whenever somone walks into band practice, and goes "dude, this song is MAD", listen to it, learn it, then play it as a band.

Knowing covers and knowing what everyone's influences are is how you get musically tight. Once you know how everyone thinks, you'll know how to play along to eachother.

If you "only do originals" right from the word go, you'll find the band gets very frustrated, very quickly.

Remember, as a band that "only does originals" you'll come to a stage where you're playing the same 8-10 songs, three times a week, every week, and you won't understand why they're starting to suck. This is only out of bordom.

Covers are a good thing.


Thought you guys might like these pearls of wisdom.

[Trigger_003]

Nice idea :)

[chumpradio]

This is so true.
Especially the one about playing the same songs all the time; my band nearly fell to pieces recently because they had been playing the same songs for a year and a half, and I had for about 8 months, so there started to be tension as everybody was bored and annoyed at playing the same songs.

[Phototropic]

Sweet, good read man, great info there

In september I'll have been in a band for a year and I'm having the best time of my life

All I can offer is to keep at it

We jammed once or twice over 3 months and it wasn't really happenin, so I kinda said I wasn't intrested...I came back from my summer holiday and the guitarist asked me did I wanna drum for them in a gig, even if I didnt stay.

So we spent a full week rehearsing, got down 4 songs...was hell of a lot of fun, that was when the band really started, at the week leading up to the gig

If you have fun and you're making some good music then you're doing the right thing!

Just enjoy yourself, and try to practise a hell of a lot, it really does pay off rather than sittin at home and having emergency practises before a gig (this doesn't always work)

You can make a band serious but you should not change the way you are to your friends (which they usually will be)

Don't start acting like a cunt, try and talk everything through, and make decisions together

If I can remember anything else I'll try and edit

I typed this out quite fast so ignore the bad grammar

Peace

[Knifeboy]

Great thread, the only thing I -might- disagree with is the covers thing, I know a few pretty succesfull (amateur) bands who never does/did covers.. But in that case, it's mostly bands where the songwriting is done by one person, with alot to say

[Zappa]

Covers?

[Aus_rock_god]

Yeah, never underestimate the power of learing a few good covers together.

1. When the band get frustrated during jamming/songwriting or is just getting board with the same songs over and over, it does feel good to belt out a version of House of the rising sun, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Cowboys From Hell, Bohemian Rapsody ect.

2. Everything you do when you songwrite is based off what your major influences have done (and most of the time, you don't even know you're doing it). Everyone has different influences, and getting to know songs by everyone's influences gives you the power of knowing how everyone thinks. If you know how everyone thinks, and can think like all the members of your band, jamming becomes a peice of cake.

Metallica, Pink Floyd, Slayer, Guns and Roses, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Living End, Wolfmother, Jet and even The Mothers Of Invention all started as cover bands.

[Forlorn Hope]

Another key element to know is compromise compromise compromise. Not everyone in the band will always agree on everything. Lets say you want to play a song that the drummer doesn't like much. Go ahead and learn it, then learn a song the drummer would really like to play.
Also, don't let one person control the whole band. Each person has their own say in everything, and each person has the same amount of "power". Unless everyone is content with having one "leader".

[CoZ]

Our band is actually just starting out. We've got one small demo song, but it's kinda hard since we are having trouble coming together. Not only that, we can't find anybody who wants to play for us and is dedicated enough to try.

[MXicanDrummer]

Another key element to know is compromise compromise compromise. Not everyone in the band will always agree on everything.


Good advice!

[panthersfan16]

Here is some advice. If your band is struggling to get work done, like mine have, Schedule a gig or something that creates a deadline and puts pressure on the band to get things done. Once my band signed up for battle of the bands, we were practicing 3 times a week and had 2 covers nailed down perfectly as well as 2 originals that turned out to be pretty cool, instead of jus thrown together power chords and screaming, like my stuff was before.

[Aus_rock_god]

Our band is actually just starting out. We've got one small demo song, but it's kinda hard since we are having trouble coming together. Not only that, we can't find anybody who wants to play for us and is dedicated enough to try.

Patience dude. In this industry, it's not neccissarily what you know, it's who you know (it's a cliche, but it's true). Check out the local music scene, watch some gigs. If you see a band you like, and then see one of the members down the street, say g'day. Once you get to know more musicians in your area, you'll find it much easier to form a band. If you get along with a local musician you admire, ask to jam with them. If you suck, learn from them.

Everyone, at one stage or another, will play in a band, or have a lineup, that is reeeeal sh!t.

Bands split up all the time on a local level, it's the few that stay together that end up making it. You just have to stick to your guns and eventually you'll find the right people. If you get along with all the local bands, and network yourself, you might just have a real as$ kicking axeman or bassist or singer or skinhead or keys player join your band if their band doesn't work out.

THE FIRST LINEUP ALMOST NEVER STAYS TOGETHER SO DON'T FEEL LET DOWN IF YOUR FIRST BAND/LINEUP DOESN'T WORK

Using the old examples: Mettalica, The Beatles, The Mothers Of Invention, Guns and Roses, Pantera and Pink Floyd all played under different bandnames, and had various lineup changes for about 6 years as unsigned local bands.

Every band in history started on a local level and stayed there for years. Everything that you're about to go though putting a band together has already happened to every band that hits the big time. The difference between a musican that plays in garages for their entire life and a musician that joins a band that ends up playing at Madison Square gardens is persistance and sacrifice.

Even Pantera, Metallica and AC/DC practice in garages/the back of a house/home studios, and they all get fustrated at eachother, get sick of the same songs and want to boot a member. If it's "not really working out", stick at it, because even bands that go on world tours feel the same way.

My band (www.myspace.com/makeshiftmanner) has recently gone though a very tough few weeks, in which our drummer (who is, in my opinion, the best drummer on the planet) left, our lead guitarist (who was no big loss, but was a good friend) left and I felt like ditching the whole thing.

Our bassist and I got into some heavy drinking after our "last show" and figured out what went wrong, and all it came down to was that we were trying to go too far, too quickly, and we didn't have the right people.

Our lead guitarist, or example, had no sence of rythem, but we didn't want to boot him because 1. he was my best mate and 2. he was the bassist's twin brother.

So we decided to keep the project going, but to go back to basics and start all over again. We have a new guitarist now (who I've been jamming with for a long time, and who is my buisiness partner) and we're revising all our old originals, working on a version of bohemian rapsody (and piling up a list of songs to learn, including Sultans of Swing, Cowboys From Hell, Raining Blood, Confortably Numb and Don't Eat The Yellow Snow), listening to some new music (our new guitarist has now gotten me heavily into Seether) and refusing to do gigs for a while so we can chill out and get our act together.

When the sh!t goes down, take a step back, realise you're not going to make it overnight and set out again to play for the reasons you want to play.

That was a huge offload of information and ended up being a rant but I have more wisdom than that to offer, I just need more coffee to get it out.

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Make sure you are all in it for the same reason, i can tell you it's no fun starting something up to get a few months into it and realise one band member is really only interested so they can look cool and attract women, where the rest of the band will take it seriously and put effort into it.

Sure the practices are still fun, for the time being, but he wants to bring in a singer who doesnt sing our style, is willing to sacrifice our sound and style so that this singer will fit with us "at least we'll be playing something", solely because in his oppinion she is an attractive girl.

It is beginning to seriously give me the shits, and chances are this won't go any further, but i'm planning on starting something else up with a mate of mine and the drummer and perhaps other guitarist if he isn't a dick about it.

[Seafroggys]

Cover tunes are especially important, even to an established band. I would love to play songs that I love. If you're afraid of playing a popular tune that people will judge you based against the original, go for a more obscure cover that you guys enjoy.

Many bands in their prime (The Who, Dream Theater, The Beatles) played covers at their shows. At least in The Who and Beatle's case, their versions actually became the de facto standard, as opposed to the originals. How often have you guys heard the Isley Brothers doing "Twist and Shout" or Eddie Cochran with "Summertime Blues?" The Beatles and The WHo turned those songs into their own, and they're recognized for it being their own (even though those songs are not).

[i am the robots]

My band has been around since May, and we have 5 original songs, we don't have any plained covers, we just luckily all listen to the same stuff, and for some reason know the same songs.... at practices we've randomly broken out into Beneath Dying Skies by Through The Eyes Of The Dead, The Last by Underoath, Unholy Confessions and Second Heartbeat by Avenged Sevenfold, Episode 666, Food For The Gods, Artifacts Of The Black Rain, and Dead Eterinty by In Flames, and 11th Hour by Lamb Of God... it's freaking fun, we have yet to have any troubles writing songs, and we almost always agree with what each person throws out... I think it all falls down to chemestry.

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Cover tunes are especially important, even to an established band. I would love to play songs that I love. If you're afraid of playing a popular tune that people will judge you based against the original, go for a more obscure cover that you guys enjoy.

Many bands in their prime (The Who, Dream Theater, The Beatles) played covers at their shows. At least in The Who and Beatle's case, their versions actually became the de facto standard, as opposed to the originals. How often have you guys heard the Isley Brothers doing "Twist and Shout" or Eddie Cochran with "Summertime Blues?" The Beatles and The WHo turned those songs into their own, and they're recognized for it being their own (even though those songs are not).

I agree, i personally love playing some of my favourite songs at home by myself, doing this with a band is the coolest feeling for me, of course originals are essential to the growth of a band, but you can never pass up a good cover. Especially when such covers as All Along the Watchtower, Respect, and Hey Joe have become so amazingly successful.

My band has been around since May, and we have 5 original songs, we don't have any plained covers, we just luckily all listen to the same stuff, and for some reason know the same songs.... at practices we've randomly broken out into Beneath Dying Skies by Through The Eyes Of The Dead, The Last by Underoath, Unholy Confessions and Second Heartbeat by Avenged Sevenfold, Episode 666, Food For The Gods, Artifacts Of The Black Rain, and Dead Eterinty by In Flames, and 11th Hour by Lamb Of God... it's freaking fun, we have yet to have any troubles writing songs, and we almost always agree with what each person throws out... I think it all falls down to chemestry.

That's an amazing thing to have.

[Trigger_003]

Dude, you lost your drummer?
:(

[i am the robots]

That's an amazing thing to have.

Yeah, it's my fourth attempt at getting a band started (ironically two of the kids have been in my old bands every time), and it's finally worked out... we basically figured out that our old lead guitarist was much better as a drummer, and that our bassist was a show off, and we just recruited our rhythm guitarist's best friend :lol:.

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Yeah, it's my fourth attempt at getting a band started (ironically two of the kids have been in my old bands every time), and it's finally worked out... we basically figured out that our old lead guitarist was much better as a drummer, and that our bassist was a show off, and we just recruited our rhythm guitarist's best friend :lol:.

haha lead guitarist to drummer...and a showoff bassist, this is a very interesting band indeed :p

Best of luck with this one, sounds like it's workin out good.

[i am the robots]

We're still looking for a bassist, yay.

Our rhythm guy would work so well on bass too (he has actual basslines written that don't just mimic his rhythms) but we absolutely need him on rhythm more.. so we'll probably just need to ask a friend to do his basslines... unfortunately the best guy we know is a jazz guy, so he likes to, 'improvise (show off),' too much.

[Aus_rock_god]

Make sure you are all in it for the same reason, i can tell you it's no fun starting something up to get a few months into it and realise one band member is really only interested so they can look cool and attract women, where the rest of the band will take it seriously and put effort into it.

Sure the practices are still fun, for the time being, but he wants to bring in a singer who doesnt sing our style, is willing to sacrifice our sound and style so that this singer will fit with us "at least we'll be playing something", solely because in his oppinion she is an attractive girl.

It is beginning to seriously give me the shits, and chances are this won't go any further, but i'm planning on starting something else up with a mate of mine and the drummer and perhaps other guitarist if he isn't a dick about it.

Dude, you should ask him straight up: "Why did you join this band".

If he says "Because I love music and want to play it for the rest of my life" keep him, and let him know that getting this new singer in would not be the best thing for the band.

If he says "Because I want to be in a band" or somthing equally dumb, boot him and get somone else.

Also put him back in his place and let him know that the band involves all the members, and every single one of them counts.

In the end, it's really all about trust. On stage your testicles are firmly in the hands of your bandmates, and theirs is yours. If you wouldn't trust somone with your testicles, don't trust them with your music. :thumb:


My band has been around since May, and we have 5 original songs, we don't have any plained covers, we just luckily all listen to the same stuff, and for some reason know the same songs.... at practices we've randomly broken out into Beneath Dying Skies by Through The Eyes Of The Dead, The Last by Underoath, Unholy Confessions and Second Heartbeat by Avenged Sevenfold, Episode 666, Food For The Gods, Artifacts Of The Black Rain, and Dead Eterinty by In Flames, and 11th Hour by Lamb Of God... it's freaking fun, we have yet to have any troubles writing songs, and we almost always agree with what each person throws out... I think it all falls down to chemestry.

You my friend, are living everyone's dream. The whole point to learning covers, like I said, is knowing eachother musically. If the whole band knows everyone's music, songwriting flows smoothly, and disagreements are few. Being able to just break into a song randomly and having the whole band already know it is also an awesome feeling.


Dude, you lost your drummer?


Yeah, it was a very sad day when Matt left the band. He messaged me saying that he was picked up by a signed band...

Later I found out that the "signed band" was a buch of 16 year olds that play Blink 182 covers, which was a stab in the guts.

He just really didn't like Simon being in the band, and Simon didn't like him too much either.

By the way, do you happen to be from Ballarat???

[i am the robots]

I don't know if I'd trust any of my bandmates with my testes.... none of them are very experienced in any way at all... I think I'm the only memeber who's ever had a girlfriend, so I doubt they know of sexuality... damn potheads (some of my best friends though).

[Aus_rock_god]

We're still looking for a bassist, yay.

Our rhythm guy would work so well on bass too (he has actual basslines written that don't just mimic his rhythms) but we absolutely need him on rhythm more.. so we'll probably just need to ask a friend to do his basslines... unfortunately the best guy we know is a jazz guy, so he likes to, 'improvise (show off),' too much.

Post an add in the music store dude, or just do what a lot of metal bands have done in the past: look for a great bassist that plays in a crap band, and kidnap him.:thumb:

[i am the robots]

In the area, bassists are really scarce.... there's like three good metal bassists in the area, and they're all taken by good bands, the rest of the bands either have a **** bassist or no bassist at all.

and then there's Bereavement who's bassist is God.

[the_uber_penguin]

My band have a guitarist on bass...

...although since he started playing my basslines (I call them mine because I wrote them) he plays guitar much less.

The moral is: bass is a really fun instrument to play, which guitarists tend to ignore a bit. If you're in an area scarse of bassists, find a band in a similar plight and offer to bass for them in return for their guitarist bassing for you.

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Dude, you should ask him straight up: "Why did you join this band".

If he says "Because I love music and want to play it for the rest of my life" keep him, and let him know that getting this new singer in would not be the best thing for the band.

If he says "Because I want to be in a band" or somthing equally dumb, boot him and get somone else.

Also put him back in his place and let him know that the band involves all the members, and every single one of them counts.

In the end, it's really all about trust. On stage your testicles are firmly in the hands of your bandmates, and theirs is yours. If you wouldn't trust somone with your testicles, don't trust them with your music. :thumb:

Good idea i'll definately put it that way when i talk to him, my assumption is he will say something like "for fun"...which in a way is a good thing but i know he means it in a "**** YEAH IM IN A BAND" sense.

Nice analogy there :p

[i am the robots]

My band have a guitarist on bass...

...although since he started playing my basslines (I call them mine because I wrote them) he plays guitar much less.

The moral is: bass is a really fun instrument to play, which guitarists tend to ignore a bit. If you're in an area scarse of bassists, find a band in a similar plight and offer to bass for them in return for their guitarist bassing for you.

We want a friend on bass. We want the band to be a friend thing, because beforehand it wasn't working out :-/.

[Seafroggys]

i can't wait to get a good band rolling. Unfourtantely, its almost impossible to find rockers these days (as opposed to punks or metalheads) and especially those with classical/blues/jazz training, cause for the material I've written, I'm gonna need that!

[the_uber_penguin]

We want a friend on bass. We want the band to be a friend thing, because beforehand it wasn't working out :-/.

You have guitarists that are friends, right? Just ask one of them if they'll help you out by trying a bass.

[Seafroggys]

You have guitarists that are friends, right? Just ask one of them if they'll help you out by trying a bass.

Guitarists who are thrown onto bass usually suck 9 times out of 10.

Don't do the friends thing. I mean, its cool if they are your friends, but don't limit yourself to that. After several tours, you guys won't be friends no more :P

[i am the robots]

We've been friends since Elementary School... most kids we've known for that long sicken us, we just don't ware on each other's nerves very much.

[Trigger_003]

Yeah, it was a very sad day when Matt left the band. He messaged me saying that he was picked up by a signed band...

Later I found out that the "signed band" was a buch of 16 year olds that play Blink 182 covers, which was a stab in the guts.

He just really didn't like Simon being in the band, and Simon didn't like him too much either.

By the way, do you happen to be from Ballarat???
Owch. That's a massive bummer.

Nah, I'm on the other side of Melb. I've listened to a lot of your soundclicks and stuff, that's all.

[Lifes A Bath Sex Is Water]

Guitarists who are thrown onto bass usually suck 9 times out of 10.

Don't do the friends thing. I mean, its cool if they are your friends, but don't limit yourself to that. After several tours, you guys won't be friends no more :P
Chances are they aren't going to make it to one tour, let alone several.

I love being in bands with my friends. Too many people think of music as a competition, or something. I like knowing that my friends and I can make music because it's a beautiful thing to do, and not because we're all trying to hit it big.

[i am the robots]

Exactly, it's something we're doing because we love death metal and we want to play some too.

[Aus_rock_god]

Guitarists who are thrown onto bass usually suck 9 times out of 10.

Don't do the friends thing. I mean, its cool if they are your friends, but don't limit yourself to that. After several tours, you guys won't be friends no more :P

And then you have Flea and Stu'd Ham, who (to my knowledge) started out as axe murderers and were thrown onto bass because of the lack of bassists.

Drummers and Bassists are the two hardest musicians to find, mainly because:

1. Drums take up a lot of space and are the loudest unamplified instrument on the planet, so a lot of kids that take up drums have to have either really really cool parents, or really really rich parents, or parents that are musicians (and we all know how hard that is to find).

2. 9 out of 10 people don't want to play bass, because guitar is "cooler" and "bassists are only failed guitarists" (I challenge any guitarist that feels this way to try to play Classical Thump).


I kind of agree with what you said about friendship. There's no real point getting somone into your band just because they're your mate, they have to be good at their instument. If you let your mate into your band, and he sucks, it's 10x harder to tell him that he sucks because you're afraid of losing the friendship.

I had a hard time with our previous lead guitarist, because he was my best mate. He's a great dude, but he has no real sence of rythem, and in the end, I had to compensate what I was doing and couldn't write anything difficult because he just couldn't play it. All he was really good at was bashing out some wicked, wild guitar sounds that he didn't know how he was generating anyway.

We tried a couple of times to boot him. The drummer and I formed a side project, and started building that up, but our bassist came in, asked for a spot, we nodded, got another guitarist in, and a singer, and at our second jam session, our lead guitarist walks in and is suddenly part of the band.

So we had to scrap the project, because even the hint that we didn't want him playing made him look upset.

Eventually, this lead to our drummer leaving.

BUT

It really really really does help if you get along with all the members of the band. There's not much worse than sitting in a sweaty room for 5 hours with 2-4 other people who you don't like, trying to work together. Personal differences get in the way of songwriting. ie:

Guitarist A doesn't like guitarist B because guitarist B thinks guitarist A is a dropkick. Guitarist A slept with guitarist B's girlfriend and heard all the bad sh!t she had to say about him and so on and so forth. Guitarist A is a brillient guitarist and B is pretty good too.

A decides to rip into a spine chilling solo in the middle of a song, the band is blown away and all dig it, all the people listening nearby dig it, and Steve Vai happens to be walking by and decideds to remember the notes and steal it. B pipes up and says:

"That sucked, you were out of key and it was waaaaay too fast, slow down Spinal Tap."

Guitarist A comes back with: "You play it better"

Guitarist B plays an average solo run and glares at the other band members.

"Now that was better, wasn't it, it fitted in with the rest of the song."

The rest of the band agrees, so as to avoid a thumping from B, and the as$ kicking lead attack is lost forever (and Steve Vai forgets it).


It's an exaggerated senario, but I've been in two bands where friendship (or lack thereof) has damaged the songwriting process, both incidents were pretty similar. I wasn't involved, and sort of stood back at watched (I was playing bass in both bands).

The best thing to do, is be strong and only let musicians that can play at your level into your band. If you suck, play with other people that suck, and learn together. On the same token, there's nothing much more frustrating than being a big fish in a very very small pond.

But don't be afraid to boot somone who's a brillient musician because they're a jerk.

And, if you're serious about your music, do yourself a favor and don't be a jerk...

Jerks, no matter how good they are, are always the first to crash and burn in the world of music.

[Aus_rock_god]

Owch. That's a massive bummer.

Nah, I'm on the other side of Melb. I've listened to a lot of your soundclicks and stuff, that's all.

OH SWEET! Thanks a bunch dude :cool:. That's really cool.

[FunkyMunky]

Hey Aus rock god I really like what you have to say about covers I think its smart to keep things fresh

[Jon]

That was a nice read, but it all seemed pretty obvious =/

6) Why would I get into a band with people who aren't into the same type of music as me
5) One of my bands is based around the singer/songwriter, but I guess we're all decent musicians
4) Why would I play the music that I don't want to play?
3) That's just not going to happen.
2) True, but someone has to have a vision
1) Fine line between good and bad uses of covers. I like to stick one into the set to break things up, or as an encore, but doing like 3 covers is lame. However, spontaneously jamming to a Stones song in rehearsal rocks :cool:

My band have a guitarist on bass...
Probably the biggest and best local band in my scene in London at the moment (they're getting a lot of praise from Metal Hammer and a lot of other places) has a guitarist on bass. He doesn't even own a bass (and they've been together for over a year now), but that doesn't detract from the music one bit.

[Calimethar]

I've got a question about doing covers. My band has been together for a year now and we've done a couple of gigs where we played covers. But lately I am starting to find covers boring and I want to play own songs. At our last gig, a few weeks ago, we played an original song live for the first time and I thought it was much more fun than playing a cover. So, do you think we should start playing originals and stop covering songs (exept for the songs we already play and maybe some songs that we really like)?

[Jo Shoe Wah]

I've got a question about doing covers. My band has been together for a year now and we've done a couple of gigs where we played covers. But lately I am starting to find covers boring and I want to play own songs. At our last gig, a few weeks ago, we played an original song live for the first time and I thought it was much more fun than playing a cover. So, do you think we should start playing originals and stop covering songs (exept for the songs we already play and maybe some songs that we really like)?

Yes, definately play your original songs. Don't neccessarily stop playing covers though, they're always good to throw in with a set, like a good crowd grabbing song to start off with or a few up your sleeve in the event of an encore. Mix it up a bit but definately include your own originals in a set.

Also writing songs can often be tedious and time consuming, so learning rehearsing or just jamming along to a cover song during practice/rehearsals is a good way to chill out and take a break from the repetitiveness :P

By the way does anyone else do this?

Whenever i make a cd with random music on it (well not random but, not a single album) compilation, if you will. (I am one of those people who is yet to get with the mp3 player times haha) I usually lay the songs out in a way so the cd can flow well, and i suppose not jump around from soothing tracks to upbeat ones.

Example, starting my cd with Breathe - Pink Floyd, then having the second track Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin. Whilst i love both these songs i would not put them on the cd in that order, i would probably have multiple tracks building up the mood before the explosive intro to Immigrant Song.

Does anyone else tend to do this when choosing songs to play for a gig?

[Seafroggys]

The idea is that your first gig has cover tunes and maybe one or two originals. You slowly add originals (and covers!) until you can fill a 3 hour set, which is how most clubs work.

[Aus_rock_god]

I've got a question about doing covers. My band has been together for a year now and we've done a couple of gigs where we played covers. But lately I am starting to find covers boring and I want to play own songs. At our last gig, a few weeks ago, we played an original song live for the first time and I thought it was much more fun than playing a cover. So, do you think we should start playing originals and stop covering songs (exept for the songs we already play and maybe some songs that we really like)?

Definantly. It what you formed a band to do, isn't it.

A lot of people mis-interperated what I said about covers. Just because you learn them as a band doesn't mean you have to play them live, it's just a way of getting to know eachother.

Get that creativity going dude!!!! :thumb:

[Aus_rock_god]

Yes, definately play your original songs. Don't neccessarily stop playing covers though, they're always good to throw in with a set, like a good crowd grabbing song to start off with or a few up your sleeve in the event of an encore. Mix it up a bit but definately include your own originals in a set.

Also writing songs can often be tedious and time consuming, so learning rehearsing or just jamming along to a cover song during practice/rehearsals is a good way to chill out and take a break from the repetitiveness :P

By the way does anyone else do this?

Whenever i make a cd with random music on it (well not random but, not a single album) compilation, if you will. (I am one of those people who is yet to get with the mp3 player times haha) I usually lay the songs out in a way so the cd can flow well, and i suppose not jump around from soothing tracks to upbeat ones.

Example, starting my cd with Breathe - Pink Floyd, then having the second track Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin. Whilst i love both these songs i would not put them on the cd in that order, i would probably have multiple tracks building up the mood before the explosive intro to Immigrant Song.

Does anyone else tend to do this when choosing songs to play for a gig?

Yeah man, I do that all the time. That's how you should plan out a set. A good set usually starts with a nice big bang, which calms down during the middle (a couple of mellow songs), then the best song you have up your selve for the finale.

One thing my band does when planning a set, is record ourselves at rehersal using an I-pod, upload it onto a computer, split the recording into seperate songs and play around with it until there's a nice flow.

Or you can do what David Bowie does and pull the songs out of a hat at random. :thumb:

[Aus_rock_god]

Hey Aus rock god I really like what you have to say about covers I think its smart to keep things fresh

Thanks dude!!!!! :thumb:

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Yeah man, I do that all the time. That's how you should plan out a set. A good set usually starts with a nice big bang, which calms down during the middle (a couple of mellow songs), then the best song you have up your selve for the finale.

One thing my band does when planning a set, is record ourselves at rehersal using an I-pod, upload it one a computer, split the recording into seperate songs and play around with it until there's a nice flow.

Or you can do what David Bowie does and pull the songs out of a hat at random. :thumb:

Hehe yeah thats the way our last gig was planned out, i may give the recording a sorting thing a go next time round sounds like a good idea.

[PremierManiac]

6. The band is formed from the best musicians in town... but they're into completely different music.
You really can't stress that enough. My old band had a problem sort of like this.

We had been playing for about 8 months with no singer, so we decided to go out shopping for one. We found a guy in our school who was willing to sing (not many people were) and could play keyboard pretty damn good. The only problem was that this guy's favorite bands were Queen, Meatloaf, Mellencamp, and countless terrible bar bands, whereas the rest of us all listened to Zeppelin, the Who, Beatles, Clapton, etc. Eventually the singer started influencing the lead guitarist into liking his stuff, who in turn decided that we should play more of that stuff. The rhthym guitarist went along but the bassist and myself (drummer) refused, so we broke up.

Always make sure everyone is willing to play the same type of stuff.

[Seafroggys]

dude, Queen is awesome!

Though The Beatles and Who are better :D

[PECOAE]

My band and I are basically best friends because of the music we listen to together, and playing covers is usually more fun than playing originals.

But sometimes, right after a cover, we start something out of the blue that someone's worked up and we have an original.

And when everyone likes playing that song its genius.

But an old band lead guitarist hated an original i though of because it was more funky and less metallic than he liked, and he made the others lives a living hell because of it.

I guess, yeah. Never get a guitarist or a bassist or any one based on their skill alone. Joint interest is one of the most important things you can have as a band.

[Aus_rock_god]

Agreed^^^

[red n black]

6. The band is formed from the best musicians in town... but they're into completely different music.

Every musician on the planet firmly beleives that his musical style is the best musical style on the planet. When you get a whole bunch of musicians in a band, who are the best at their instruments, but hate eachother's influences, it's set up for disaster.

For example, your bassist (who's into Jazz and Funk) will hate the way your drummer (a metal head) uses a lot of double kick. Your drummer will hate your singer (who listens to pop) and your singer will think that the lead guitarist (who's into shred and blues) is a tool and your rythem guitarist (who's into roots) will just sit there strumming away sadly, not knowing what all this noise is about.

Even if you think it will be the most out of it's mind, crazy, original music, it will only end in tears.


Very good points. :) Although I haven't read the whole thread.

Sadly, I have learned these tips by trial and error. And I could have used this info two years ago. :p Good it gets out there anyway.

But I'll have to disagree with the sixth point. If these people aren't complete smallminded idiots, then this band could be very succesful. Double Bass Drumming can be of great use in Jazz/funk and the strumming guitar might just make the perfect background for some blues-shred. And WTH is pop-singing I mean the Beatles where pop when they where new and now Anastacia is pop, so WTF is pop-singing??? And a Jazz/Funk bassist just grooves like a mutha and makes it cool like mice on ice.


*Wants this band*

[Aus_rock_god]

Very good points. :) Although I haven't read the whole thread.

Sadly, I have learned these tips by trial and error. And I could have used this info two years ago. :p Good it gets out there anyway.

But I'll have to disagree with the sixth point. If these people aren't complete smallminded idiots, then this band could be very succesful. Double Bass Drumming can be of great use in Jazz/funk and the strumming guitar might just make the perfect background for some blues-shred. And WTH is pop-singing I mean the Beatles where pop when they where new and now Anastacia is pop, so WTF is pop-singing??? And a Jazz/Funk bassist just grooves like a mutha and makes it cool like mice on ice.


*Wants this band*

Nah, the point I was getting it is that in order for this to work, you need some common ground, and you need to know how eachother think.

For example: Get a double bassist from a Blues band, and a shredder from a death metal band, sit them in a room and say JAM!

Now, the shredder thinks like a death metal dude, which is based on classical music and thinks mainly in the major scale. He sits there and pounds out a massivly long riff, tremelo picking in 32nds at about 240 bpm.

The double bassist is used to playing blues, and is most firmiliar with playing in the blues scale, minor pentantonic and minor. He'll more than likely sit there for a minute going, "what the f*ck", pluck a few notes, then start jamming by himself, not listening to the shredder, who is at this stage alternating between the 3rd fret and the 22nd.

BUT

If you were to sit there and get the shredder to play some blues with the double bassist, and get the double bassist to play some death metal, and to toss songs back and forth, the shredder will become more firmilier with the double bassist's style and theory, and the double bassist's with the shredder's.

Then, if you were to get them to jam, the shredder would start playing power chords at a million miles an hour, but in the blues scale. The double bassist would jam along walking on the blues scale, but would add gallops, triplets and slapping.


See what I mean.

In order to have this kind of diverse sound, everyone in the band has to know how everyone else works. Otherwise, you'll be stuck there forever trying to jam, and not actually getting anywhere.

Everyone knows that top notch guitarists play blues and metal. Everyone knows that top flyte bass play funk and jazz. Everyone knows that brillient drummers play everything. And everyone knows that the singers with the best tone sing pop music.

But if you were to get all these unbelivably good musicians in a band together, they'll kill eachother, UNLESS, they're willing to learn eachother's music and adapt to everyone's styles.

Then, and only then, will you have somthing brillient.:thumb:

[Phototropic]

we have 2 bassest who we are trying to narrow down to 1. both dont play, but one of them plays double bass so we shall prolly go with her. Our first mistake was getting some one who cant play bass. so we had to get the girl. which is fine but is the lead guitarist g/f so thats going to turn out to be really bad farther down the road. but when it happens it'll happen. i have told my guitaist and bassest that when they do break up the band better stay together.

Right...?!

:confused:

[mullets suk]

Right...?!

:confused:


double bass. another name for stand up bass. i know a lot of people here who use that term. i thought it was fairly commen. i guess not.

[Phototropic]

You said both don't play but one of them plays...

I know what a double bass is you numb nut

[ShredLemming]

Mullets Suk: Why would you want a bassist who doesn't play bass guitar? I know that they're fairly rare (at least in my area), but if you can, get a real bassist. A good one. A good bass line can do wonders for an otherwise average song, which from the description of your band looks like the sort of thing you'll be doing.

One important lesson that I've learnt is to avoid anyone with too big an ego. One of my friends joined a band as a singer and guitarist, only to discover that one of the two lead guitarists thought he was the new Yngwie Malmsteen and decided that for three and a half hours of the four hour practice, he would entertain the rest of the band by attempting to play pieces out a grade 8 book (he had only recently passed grade 3). Requests that he should shut the phuck up and play with the rest of the band were ignored, as was a hail of projectiles. Needless to say, the band collapsed very soon afterwards.

On the other hand, make sure that you don't get someone with no ego at all, either. My last band fell apart due to a potent mixture of apathy and a belief that we sucked and should never allow anyone else to hear our music.

[masada]

My band is basically number six (except for the whole 'best musicians in the town' thing), and I plan on leaving the band as soon as possible.

[Me!]

This still doesn't make up for the coffee mug story.

Getting there though lol. Very good points.

[PUNKrockMETALscreamo]

I've been thinking about making or joining a band...
Good advice

[Da_Funk420]

this is a really insightful thread.

Ive got a few guys who have a drum set and a guitar. I play guitar and we jam..or try to. We're all over the place, I try to play along with the drummer but he's barely beginning. Hell, I'm better at the drums then him. But I don't think they're truly as serious about starting a band like me. I've been wondering for days in my bed before I sleep, how the hell am I supposed to find people willing to play with me? And like my music as well.. I guess they dont have to.
But the advice about learning other people's influences will already help me out a lot because I've learned everything from Red hot Chilli Peppers to more obscure bands like Eyehategod, Lamb of God, The Beatles, Porcupine Tree, Grateful Dead, Foo Fighters, SRV, Eric Clapton, Radiohead,....the other day I heard this guy named Matt Otten play jazz guitar on YouTube and oh my god, this music is soooooooo good. I want to learn every style of music. Hell some old *** dude who claimed to have jammed with some dude named Robert Frip or Flip taught some Indian Zitar style of stuff a summer ago and surprisingly I dont like the music but those scales are a staple in my playing.

and I'm now going off on a bunch of bull**** unrelated to bands. Anyone looking for a serious musician? I've only played for 3 years but i've been told to play better than some who've been jamming for 30.

[Phototropic]

this is a really insightful thread.

Ive got a few guys who have a drum set and a guitar. I play guitar and we jam..or try to. We're all over the place, I try to play along with the drummer but he's barely beginning. Hell, I'm better at the drums then him. But I don't think they're truly as serious about starting a band like me. I've been wondering for days in my bed before I sleep, how the hell am I supposed to find people willing to play with me? And like my music as well.. I guess they dont have to.
But the advice about learning other people's influences will already help me out a lot because I've learned everything from Red hot Chilli Peppers to more obscure bands like Eyehategod, Lamb of God, The Beatles, Porcupine Tree, Grateful Dead, Foo Fighters, SRV, Eric Clapton, Radiohead,....the other day I heard this guy named Matt Otten play jazz guitar on YouTube and oh my
god, this music is soooooooo good. I want to learn every style of music. Hell some old *** dude who claimed to have jammed with some dude named Robert Frip or Flip taught some Indian Zitar style of stuff a summer ago and surprisingly I dont like the music but those scales are a staple in my playing.

and I'm now going off on a bunch of bull**** unrelated to bands. Anyone looking for a serious musician? I've only played for 3 years but i've been told to play better than some who've been jamming for 30.

:rolleyes:

Thats impossible, you can't get 30 years of jamming experience in 3

[the_only_singer]

obscure bands like Eyehategod, Lamb of God, The Beatles, Porcupine Tree, Grateful Dead, Foo Fighters, SRV, Eric Clapton, Radiohead

I know this is off topic, but how the hell are half of those even close to obscure? Porcupine Tree and Eyehategod maybe, but the rest?

[Aus_rock_god]

:rolleyes:

Thats impossible, you can't get 30 years of jamming experience in 3

By practicing for hours on end every day.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. Once you get the bug you can't get rid of it. You live, breathe and eat music. Then you find a girlfriend who's a musician, and you root music. Then she get preggers, and you're breeding music.

But that's another story.

I've been playing for 5 years, pretty much all day every day. Some of the dudes I jam with have been playing for more than 20, and I can play circles around them.

These guys play purely as a hobby and can't understand why I love music so much.

A dedicated musician, who loves music, can learn more in 3 years then a hobby guitarist can learn in 30.

[Phototropic]

I disagree, I don't think you can find out the same amount of info and have the same experiences in 3 years as in 30 years

[Trigger_003]

My dad's probably being playing for 40-45 years, and man, I've been teaching him for quite a few years now. I correct my classroom music teachers on theory and stuff all the time as well.
So how does that work?

It really depends on how much time and dedication you put into your practice, and having a sense of direction.

[masada]

I've been playing for two days and I just beat Yngwie, Vai, Satriani, and Petrucci in a guitar duel.

[Alive]

I've been playing for two days and I just beat Yngwie, Vai, Satriani, and Petrucci in a guitar duel.

That's nothing. I destroyed Ravi Shankar in a sitar battle this morning, never having touched one before, whilst I was asleep.

[Moseph]

Everyone knows that top notch guitarists play blues and metal. Everyone knows that top flyte bass play funk and jazz. Everyone knows that brillient drummers play everything. And everyone knows that the singers with the best tone sing pop music.


I strongly disagree. More to the point, you shouldn't ever compare the aesthetics of an instrument from within 2 different styles and call one "better" definitively.

[Alive]

Everyone knows that top notch guitarists play blues and metal. Everyone knows that top flyte bass play funk and jazz. Everyone knows that brillient drummers play everything. And everyone knows that the singers with the best tone sing pop music.


Oh, to make a hollow laughing sound.

Listen to Stringmansassy - A day in the life of Fool and tell me that there is a single pop singer that has a better tone than that. The best guitarists (Shawn Lane, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth) play mainly jazz/fusion, and that goes for a lot of bassists too.

[flea_slap_god]

And then you have Flea and Stu'd Ham, who (to my knowledge) started out as axe murderers and were thrown onto bass because of the lack of bassists.

Flea a failed guitarist?? lol, what the biggest crock of s**t i've heard in my life. Flea's dad played double bass in a jazz band who use to always jam at his house, so he was always influenced with bass from his dad. He played trumpet well befor bass and with his first bass his dad got him, he ruined by rippin the frets out to try and be like jaco pastorius.

Stu hamm also, he never started on guitar and got moved to bass, once again, a load of bullsh*t

[Aus_rock_god]

Oh, to make a hollow laughing sound.

Listen to Stringmansassy - A day in the life of Fool and tell me that there is a single pop singer that has a better tone than that. The best guitarists (Shawn Lane, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth) play mainly jazz/fusion, and that goes for a lot of bassists too.

Meh, I was talking very generally. "best" is in the eye of the beholder, but when you listen to metal, people generally listen to the guitars and drool, where as in funk, the bass stands out a lot more than in other music.

We won't get into a fight over who's the best singer in the world, but pop singers tend to have a ****LO*D of ability, but, for argument's sake, opera singers can mop the floor with 95% of other vocalists.

[Aus_rock_god]

Flea a failed guitarist?? lol, what the biggest crock of s**t i've heard in my life. Flea's dad played double bass in a jazz band who use to always jam at his house, so he was always influenced with bass from his dad. He played trumpet well befor bass and with his first bass his dad got him, he ruined by rippin the frets out to try and be like jaco pastorius.

Stu hamm also, he never started on guitar and got moved to bass, once again, a load of bullsh*t

Meh, I don't know a whole heap about them, I was just told that this was the case.

[FatherKeeL]

sort of off topic now, but it fit in earlyer on in the thread:

when my band first started out it was just 3 guys

me - vocals
+ drummer
+ guitar player

at some point the guitarplayer decided that drums are much cooler than guitar. he made me learn the guitar, started playing drums and made the drummer sing.

... well. the drummer ended up quitting music, but i am quite a decent guitar player now and the ex-guitarplayer is now the best drummer i know.

[Seafroggys]

your guitar player is a big doushe.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

I disagree, I don't think you can find out the same amount of info and have the same experiences in 3 years as in 30 years


I agree to this BUT.

You can have your chops down like someone thats been playing for 30 after 3 years. But in 30 years you know alot more music, You can write better, improv better.

So overall the 30 years pretty much pwns the 3 year guitarists.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

sort of off topic now, but it fit in earlyer on in the thread:

when my band first started out it was just 3 guys

me - vocals
+ drummer
+ guitar player

at some point the guitarplayer decided that drums are much cooler than guitar. he made me learn the guitar, started playing drums and made the drummer sing.

... well. the drummer ended up quitting music, but i am quite a decent guitar player now and the ex-guitarplayer is now the best drummer i know.


Should told him to **** off and and he's fired hah.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

Originally Posted by Aus_rock_god
Everyone knows that top notch guitarists play blues and metal. Everyone knows that top flyte bass play funk and jazz. Everyone knows that brillient drummers play everything. And everyone knows that the singers with the best tone sing pop music.

Bullsh!t

[cadencethefire]

A band's first year is often the most fun, and the hardest.

In this thread, we discuss what our bands have been though and offer advice to young rock gods on what to do in the first year.


The top 6 biggest mistakes bands make in their first year (that lead to them splitting up)

6. The band is formed from the best musicians in town... but they're into completely different music.

Every musician on the planet firmly beleives that his musical style is the best musical style on the planet. When you get a whole bunch of musicians in a band, who are the best at their instruments, but hate eachother's influences, it's set up for disaster.

For example, your bassist (who's into Jazz and Funk) will hate the way your drummer (a metal head) uses a lot of double kick. Your drummer will hate your singer (who listens to pop) and your singer will think that the lead guitarist (who's into shred and blues) is a tool and your rythem guitarist (who's into roots) will just sit there strumming away sadly, not knowing what all this noise is about.

Even if you think it will be the most out of it's mind, crazy, original music, it will only end in tears.

5. The band is formed by one songwriter, who grabs any musician he can in order to get his music out there, and doesn't care that his own band can't play their instruments.

What will happen, is you'll have one guy who is a brillient singer/guitarist/whatever, backed up by 2 or 3 guys that can't play. The songwriter will crack the ****s and the other guys will have no idea why.

4. The band changes their musical style whenever they feel that they're not getting a following.

This goes back to everyone needing a similar taste in music in the first place. If you're not getting a following you're either:

- Writing crap music

or, more likely

- Playing at the wrong venues, supporting the wrong bands, entertaining the wrong people.

NEVER change your musical style because you feel it isn't popular.

3. The band becomes more concerned with playing well, then actually enjoying their instruments and, more to the point, being entertaining.

Remember, when people go to see a band, they go to be entertained.

Music is an interpretation of how you feel. If you can't back your skill up with playing expressivly, and with total and utter joy, you'll start to sound, and feel, very plain.

2. One member of the band decides he knows what direction to go in better than the rest of the band.

Again, this will only lead to tears. Everyone who listens to music knows what they like. No one member of the band has any more say about their band than any other.

1. The band isn't willing to do covers, and 'only wants to do originals'.

This is the biggest mistake you can make. The best thing to do with a band, is learn eachother's influences. When you first form, get everyone to write down their 5 favorite songs, and then have the band learn all of them.

Whenever somone walks into band practice, and goes "dude, this song is MAD", listen to it, learn it, then play it as a band.

Knowing covers and knowing what everyone's influences are is how you get musically tight. Once you know how everyone thinks, you'll know how to play along to eachother.

If you "only do originals" right from the word go, you'll find the band gets very frustrated, very quickly.

Remember, as a band that "only does originals" you'll come to a stage where you're playing the same 8-10 songs, three times a week, every week, and you won't understand why they're starting to suck. This is only out of bordom.

Covers are a good thing.


Thought you guys might like these pearls of wisdom.

All my band ever does is originals, thanks for the advice, so far we're not bored with what we have yet, but i'm sure that time will come... unless we take this advice :)

[cadencethefire]

Bullsh!t
i agree with that one nothing defines a good musician except YOU and you alone

[Aus_rock_god]

Bullsh!t

Perhaps I worded it wrong. The point I was trying to get across is this:

Louis Armstrong, Pavarotti, Steve Vai, Joey Jordeson and James Hetfeild are all awesome musicians. But you wouldn't put them in a band together. They wouldn't gel.

James Hetfeild would probably make Pavarotti cry by calling him a choir boy. Steve Vai and Louis Armstrong would jam by themselves playing interesting jazz and talking about music theory, and making up silly songs and Joey would blow bubbles out of his mask from bordom.

[kidthatplaysguitar91]

Perhaps I worded it wrong. The point I was trying to get across is this:

Louis Armstrong, Pavarotti, Steve Vai, Joey Jordeson and James Hetfeild are all awesome musicians. But you wouldn't put them in a band together. They wouldn't gel.

James Hetfeild would probably make Pavarotti cry by calling him a choir boy. Steve Vai and Louis Armstrong would jam by themselves playing interesting jazz and talking about music theory, and making up silly songs and Joey would blow bubbles out of his mask from bordom.


there you go.

[panthersfan16]

This was an awesome thread that you guys completely ruined w/ BS arguing about nonsense

[Aus_rock_god]

*nods in agreement*

[kyguy212]

Well let's bring the thread back, then?

My band got started about 2 years ago when I was a year or two into being serious about the guitar- and I've sang all my life, so now I'm the guitarist/vocalist in a 3 member band. But when we started out, I didnt know who would play bass, so I asked my best friend if he was interested, so he rented a bass and took lessons and then bought one a bit later.. etc etc. Then there was this guy who I barely knew who played drums, so I asked him if he wanted to make a band with us, and he was all over it. So there was our band... and now both of them are my best friends. however now, i feel like I'm guilty of number 5 (to a certain extent), haha... I'm the songwriter, and I write everything from harmony vocals to lead guitar to drum beats. I just dont get it.. my drummer has a small sense of rhythm, and can barely keep time either. All he wants to do is play the hardest thing he possibly can, to the point where he can't play it anymore, instead of serving the song. He doesnt understand that keeping time is the most important thing a drummer does. Everything else is extra (although I wouldnt want to be without it! haha) My bass player has been playing for 2 years now, but he still kinda... sucks? >_< We like the same music and everything (except my tastes go a bit heavier than his), and we get along extremely well... but he just doesn't contribute to the music, and even the basslines i write for him are too difficult :( I admit.. he's getting better, but ever so sloooooowly... I know he wants to be better, but It doesnt look like he tries. Also it seems like he's more into stage presence than the actual skill of playing bass.

At least the band is becoming a lot more active. We've played a bunch of shows in the last few months. Both of them are great guys, and I hope things come together, because even though my band members don't understand the music in my head, I couldn't imagine playing with anyone else.

AND ENOUGH ARGUING! god, that was like 2 pages full. :rolleyes:

[Aus_rock_god]

Yeah. That's the typical thing that a lot of the more brillient songwriters do.

I'm the same way dude. I was invited into my band over a year ago and I was the sole songwriter. The bassist was only just learning, but had more of an idea about music than the guitarist (who was playing for 5). The drummer was unbelivably good.

Eventually, it frustrated the f*ck out of me having to explain everything, one bar at a time, to the guitarist.

Now, we have a new guitarist who I don't really have to give any orders to, who writes full songs and not just riffs.

Never underestimate how good it feels to be able to belt out a riff and for everyone else to be able to follow along, and add their own feel to it.


Songwriters are notorious for wanting to get their music out there so quickly that they don't care who's in their band. If you're confortable with the dudes in the band, keep them, but be patient. Remember how long it took you to master your instrument.

[PECOAE]

Yeah, the best feeling in the world is just to be able to start some crazy riff/beat/line and have everyone add their own thing to it and create a new song.

I miss having a band.

I need to find some people who play instruments.

[Aus_rock_god]

At first, a new band is exciting. All the members of the band will be very democratic and each will accept input from all other members of the band.

However, soon a pecking order will be established, and tempers could become a little frayed.

Personalities will clash, and sometimes can start fights.

The number 1 reason for a band splitting/members quitting is that they're not happy with the way the pecking order turns out.

Personality types.

Generally, there are a few types of personality types you can find in musicians (they all have their good and bad points).

Here are a few examples of types of dudes I've worked with, and how to deal with them when problems arise.

1. The 'popularity king': This is a musician that is in a band for the girls and the friends. The generally have a massive ego but very little musical skill. However, occasionally you'll get a few 'popularity kings' that are actually entertaining to watch and will promote the band (to better themselves, but they'll promote it anyway).

Most of them will only give their friends a listen to songs they wrote themselves, or when they are singing.

This can become very annoying to the other members of the group, and are normally the first to get booted.

The best way to deal with these dudes, I find, is to boot them the moment they become a problem.

2. The 'frustrated songwriter': Typically, these dudes will be the ones who will prefer to sit in the corner and strum their guitar than to go out and party down.

They tend to have only small amounts of technical skill, but can make you feel something.

They are the best songwriter in the band, but have the smallest ego, and tend to roam from band to band, getting frustrated when no-one listens to them.

These are very valuable musicians. If you have one in your band, for gods sakes, keep them. Let them write entire songs and be willing to play them. Don't question them unless you really feel something is crap.

If you are one of them, for f*ck's sake, speak up and let your band hear your tunes.

Somtimes though, these guys can be complete and utter phychos. I was in a band once (I think it lasted 2 weeks) and the main songwriter (this was a death metal band) was seriously f*cked in the head and killed his own cat in front of me.

Most of these dudes are feeling somthing, and there's a reason they perfer instruments to people.

3. The 'Ultimate Virtuoso': These guys are good at their instrument, and they know it. Anything you put in front of them they can play. They are gods of their instrument and are also valuable players.

However, these guys tend to winge, a lot.

Everything from "You played that drum part a little differently from last time" to "I can't play without a pick that's a .88".

This can be very annoying.

The best way to deal with problems with these dudes, is make them comfortable. But if they complain about someone improvising a solo, or playing the melody a little different, or changing part of a song so you can fit another instrument, or different melody in, tell them to blow it out their as$.

Eventually, they'll get used to it.

Although these guys tend to clash the the 'frustrated songwriter' type, you really can't have one without the other.

4. The 'Animal': Named after the Muppet of the same name.

These guys are crazy. Some are very good at their instruments, most are very, very bad. None of them ever shut up.

These guys will play as loud and fast as they possibly can, whenever they like and will ignore what everyone else is doing.

They are great live though.

If they are good at their instruments, keep them. But you'll have the throw something at them to shut them up/turn down a bit.

It sounds stupid, but bring a water pistol to band rehearsal. When they are playing up, spray them. After a while they'll behave themselves.

If they are bad, boot them.

5. The 'Boss Man': This guy wants the band to be as successful as possible. They will study every aspect of their art thoroughly, but don't have much natural talent.

Suprisingly, you're better off keeping these guys in your band. If they're not good at their instrument, one word, manager.

6. "The Joker": They typically join the band solely to have a good time and mess around, are not really in any way serious about the music or gelling as a band. They will probably be unable to stand playing a full song unless it lasts for 2 and a half minutes, and can easily frustrate any other members who are taking the band seriously and want to accomplish things.

Contributed by Josh Shoe Wah


Who does what???

There are four main roles that need to be filled in the band.

- Main songwriter/lyricist: The guy that writes the bulk of the riffs and melodys, and arranges most of the songs.

- Band leader: Generally the front man. This guy is mostly takes control of rehursals and usually finds himself in charge of set lists ect.

- Manager: When you first form, this is usually filled by a performing member of the band. The manager (in the early stages of the band) is in charge of looking for gigs, booking venues and taking care of any legal bullsh!t that many band members can't be f*cked with.

- Publicist: The dude in charge of the website, fliers, posters ect.

At first all members of the band will share these roles. But after a while, cirtain members of the band will specialise in cirtain tasks.

It's not uncommon for the band leader and songwriter to be the same dude, or for the manager and publicist to be the same guy.

Don't be suprised if one guy does all four.

But, the best roles just end up happening. It's when people muscle themselves to cirtain positions that problems arise.

The toughest time in a new band is the period of time when these roles are becoming more significant, and members of the band all want to take control.

Most bands lose members during this period.

The best advice I can give is:

If you're happy playing an instrument, and don't care for admin sh!t and can't write entire songs, stick with that. You'll be happy, and everyone else will be too.

If you enjoy making websites and spend a lot of time on the net, offer to make the band's website.

If your dream is to have your band play at Madison Square Gardens, start doing management stuff.

If you want band rehursals to go smoothly, and you have the respect of the other band members, try running them.

Honestly, if you're happy doing somthing, do it.

All this is theory, roles can be shared, or someone can do more than one, it's all to do with how happy you and your band is.

A happy band is a rockin band.

[Merkaba]

This is all you need:
1. Maturity...relative at least.
2. A willingness to know and understand compromise and what it means.

Thats it. Otherwise....forget having a band.

[the_uber_penguin]

Interesting, in my current band we all fit all the stereotypes in different ways. (See two posts up)

[Aus_rock_god]

Interesting, in my current band we all fit all the stereotypes in different ways. (See two posts up)

Same for my band.

Me (Vocals/guitar): Frustrated songwriter/Boss man
Marshall (Guitar/vocals): Ultimate virtuoso/Popularity king
Andrew (bass): Animal

Most musicians will fit the stereotypes in one way or another. Understanding how they work will help you deal with problems and with finding the right combination of people.

Again, this is all theory, and there are billions of different personalties in the world (we're all individuals), but it seriously helps, if you're the leader of the band, if you know a bit of pychology.

[Aus_rock_god]

This is all you need:
1. Maturity...relative at least.
2. A willingness to know and understand compromise and what it means.

Thats it. Otherwise....forget having a band.

Correct.

If you're not willing to change what you're doing in a song or on stage in order to make what everyone else is doing fit better, you've got the wrong idea.

Playing in a band means you play AS a band. No individual player or instrument is more important than any of the others. You have to work together as a team.

[Trigger_003]

... and killed his own cat in front of me...
:eek:
It sounds stupid, but bring a water pistol to band rehearsal. When they are playing up, spray them. After a while they'll behave themselves.
Haha nice

Good stuff man.

[Jo Shoe Wah]

My band seems to fit those personality types too.

I have one to add, "The Joker"

They typically join the band solely to have a good time and mess around, are not really in any way serious about the music or gelling as a band. They will probably be unable to stand playing a full song unless it lasts for 2 and a half minutes, and can easily frustrate any other members who are taking the band seriously and want to accomplish things.

Gladly my band has none of that, but i've seen them before and what i see aint pretty.

[Aus_rock_god]

Added that to the list :thumb:

[Phototropic]

Great thread, fantastic amount of info here, after experiencing most of these types of people its great to see it as a written warning :p

I have nothing useful to say but if I think of anything I'll contribute

[panthersfan16]

Hey I have a band and its fun but I've been extremely frustrated lately. I'm the singer and I want to scream and play heavy and fast music. Our bass player (the main songwriter) keeps writing mellowed out midtempo songs that sometimes are more indy rock than metal/hardcore. Now I am taking the reigns in songwriting (I'm the quiet songwriter guy whos now speaking up) because of this, and though he says hes cool with it, he shoots down almost every riff and song i write as boring or generic or w/e before he has even heard it live. (We write almost everything on guitarpro first). The two guys are some of my best friends but I'm wondering is this just a little hill we have to climb or should I not waste any more time and find a new band?

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Try, instead of showing him the guitar pro first (which music often loses its vibe through). Actually play it live the first time you're showing him, then he can see what's happening later when he sees guitar pro version. May or may not help but worth a shot, think of how many times you will have heard something you thought was really cool only to download a guitar pro/tab of it and find that it really isn't much more unorthodox than playing in a minor pentatonic scale, work it in reverse, playing it live might get the energy you're trying to show across better.

Also take heed of some of the advice on the first page, if your musical styles are dramatically different then naturally arguments will arise, but try to take a bit of influence from each others style, and play a bit of both, if you or him can't cut doing that then it's probably best to find some people who are into what you're playing.

Unless you are all enjoying the music you play, when you play live, regardless of how well you belt it out there will be someone not showing the energy and enthusiasm that the others do. Remember that playing live will be entertaining people and i must say there are not many more boring performances than those where the performer has little to no interest in their work, or isn't enjoying it. Good luck with it all :thumb:

[Trigger_003]

Yeah, particularly with simpler songs, it's way better live. If only from the perspective that you can hear the lyrics going on.

If it were me, I wouldn't be too fussy about the genre. There are ALWAYS going to be compromises in a band, even if you guys had the exact same tastes and everything. Is it really that bad if you have a mix of styles? Even if you don't bring them into the one song, who says you can't have a heavy song here and an indie song there? In fact you'll have more flexibility gig wise because you're targeting a wider audience. That means more gigs and more opportunities.
So what if you end up needing to do an indie style set for a particular gig? Just make sure you get a gig where you can do some metal. And there's nothing wrong with a set that has both.

I don't know if you're the type of person that just rejects something because it's in a particular style, but if you are, try to put it behind you. Key reason being: if you accept playing his songs, he should accept playing yours. But like jo shoe said, you've gotta at least act like you're getting into it, because (particularly being the frontman), if you look bored, the audience will think you're boring. You can enjoy the songs if you try.

If he's got useful suggestions on how to improve yours and make them less "generic", let him make them. ASK him for suggestions if you don't mind doing so. You don't have to take them, but at least he's being involved more. I don't know if this is the case, but he might feel a bit insecure not being the only song writer, particularly if you're taking over the process almost completely. Another thing might be the bass lines you're writing, if you're doing them. You might be making them boring for him or something.

Being mates you should be able to sort that out between you guys, but if you really can't stand his style or he really can't stand yours, I guess it's only going to end up with troubles.

It can work though. One of my bands, we play rock, a few pop covers, flamenco, classical, jazz, latin, metal... pretty much anything. Sometimes there's a no here and there, but we're all open to new types of music, and even if one of us doesn't necessarily love it, we accept we're playing it and get into it at least for that song. If you guys go out to make it fun, you can.

Alternatively you can both sit around at a stalemate being stubborn about what you play, but it's much less enjoyable. Appreciate that your tastes are different and try to make something out of it.

If you want you can always get another band happening on the side that's more aimed at your genre. If it works out well and you only want to be in the one, you can always commit to that one.

[Aus_rock_god]

^^^ read all of the above posts, they're great answers.

What you dudes are going to have to do is adapt both your styles into the same music.

Face it, you're both songwriters, you're in one band, if you can't beat em, join em.

Lennon and McCartney came close to punching the living crap out of eachother many times over music.

Play the songs to him in person, then give him the chords and tell him "hey, it's generic, that's cool, this is the lowdown of the song, how do you recon we could play it so that it isn't."

Somtimes, just changing the rythem a bit is enough to do that.

The guitarist in my band sometimes p!sses me off because he'll write somthing really generic. All I do is keep the chords the same and change the rythem slightly.

Give eachother space. Eventually, he'll run dry on ideas and you'll be able to take more control, then when you run out, he will.

Get him to learn some metal too, and likewise, you should learn some indie. You'll find that middle ground.

[the_uber_penguin]

If you successfully fuse styles together, you can often get something really good:

my band fuse punk, pop-punk, indie, prog and heavy metal and no-one really knows which one of those genres describes us best (although I tend to say punk-rock myself, as that is what I wanted to do when I started the band...the other styles started to come through a bit later).

[iron_lion]

Yes, definately play your original songs. Don't neccessarily stop playing covers though, they're always good to throw in with a set, like a good crowd grabbing song to start off with or a few up your sleeve in the event of an encore. Mix it up a bit but definately include your own originals in a set.

Also writing songs can often be tedious and time consuming, so learning rehearsing or just jamming along to a cover song during practice/rehearsals is a good way to chill out and take a break from the repetitiveness :P

By the way does anyone else do this?

Whenever i make a cd with random music on it (well not random but, not a single album) compilation, if you will. (I am one of those people who is yet to get with the mp3 player times haha) I usually lay the songs out in a way so the cd can flow well, and i suppose not jump around from soothing tracks to upbeat ones.

Example, starting my cd with Breathe - Pink Floyd, then having the second track Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin. Whilst i love both these songs i would not put them on the cd in that order, i would probably have multiple tracks building up the mood before the explosive intro to Immigrant Song.

Does anyone else tend to do this when choosing songs to play for a gig?

oh yeah, definitely.

First few songs are moderate speed but most versatile/poppy (meaning wide range of styles and catchy) then in the middle its the bulk of our stuff with a cover here in there then at the end of the list start having the heavier faster stuff, and eventually ending with the fastest, most powerful angry song in exsistance.

[the_uber_penguin]

If we're confident about our playing, we spend more time deciding a setlist then rehearsing the songs.

[Aus_rock_god]

What I like to do is have one of our more kicka$$ songs first, followed by somthing a little generic, which winds down to maybe an acoustic song mid-way. Then we'll usually stick one of two songs we have that start quiet and end like a storm and finish with the song that punters usually yell at us to play (One Voice).

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Haha that's kind of how our school battle of the bands thing went down, we haven't written anything fully yet as we haven't been together all that long.

We played:

For whom the bell tolls, (kickass catchy song)
Comfortably numb (slow start killer finish)
Enter Sandman (One that general crowd will love)

I was told by someone that Pink Floyd is the kind of music you clap to while falling asleep, hmm too bad they were one of the loudest and most exciting performances in the world. But oh well, it annoys me that anything longer than 2-3 minutes seems to lose any effect on people in my area.

[Aus_rock_god]

Never underestimate the power of going out with a bang. It's the first song you play that sets the mood for the whole set, and it's the last song that everyone remembers.

If you have a song that is a particular favorite, for gods sake play it last because:

1 - Some people will scream until they're black and blue for you to play a particular song, and when you play it, many leave and don't listen to the rest of your set.

2 - There's nothing like holding an audience in suspence, particularly when a mainstreamer type fan (the kind of dude that likes particular songs from a band and not neccissarily that band itself) tells their friends about a paticular song of yours and they sit and listen to your whole set, wondering if you'll play it, and celibrate when you play it.

3 - After playing the one audience favorite at every single gig you play, despite having 30 songs in your repeture, it's good to get the god awful song that you've had to play to 5 times a week, every week, for 5 months out of the way last, rather than hating yourself for the entire set.


My band have one song (One Voice), that we recorded at school that got passed around the local music scene like currency. People showed up to our shows and demanded that we play the thing. Once we played that song first, the crowd cheered and then left, satisfied that they heard it.

Ever since, it's been last on our setlist.

Plus, now we're so sick of that song we hardly ever play it at practice.

[Jo Shoe Wah]

Haha yeah i'll make sure to keep that in mind with our stuff slash future covers,

on another note my band is jamming again finally over the next two days so we will probably work on getting in time and tight with the drummers double kick.
As well as practice some new stuff. I also like to just have improv jamming stuff which the rest of the guys enjoy too, i find it really fun to just get rhythm guitarist playing a progression with his little touches here and there, drummer and bassist getting a nice groove and rhythm going and adding their own bits, and we all just improv and mess around which most of the time sounds pretty decent.

Anyone ever attempted this at a show or do you prefer to stick to a structured song?

[Aus_rock_god]

Once.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=306255&songID=3011254

[Motorbreath5478]

I think another key-element to surviving is DON'T GIG TOO EARLY! A band I was in a while back was going great - we'd recorded a demo and everything. We decided to overhaul our music because it was starting to become repetetive. This was ok until the singer decided to book us a gig two weeks later.

Needless to say, we sucked and we broke up because of the self-doubt/arguing which ensued.

This leads onto the fact that a band is a group. Treat it like a little democracy. Don't go and do a load of stuff by yourself, then let the rest of them know the next day. It needs to be team work.

[Aus_rock_god]

Correct. Nobody likes a hijacker. You'll enevitably get one particular member of the band who does a lot of work, but if you are that one dude, tell everyone what you're going to do before you do it.

[the_uber_penguin]

Correct. Nobody likes a hijacker. You'll enevitably get one particular member of the band who does a lot of work, but if you are that one dude, tell everyone what you're going to do before you do it.

I have to say that on the flip side of this, you do often get someone who has more drive then anyone else (often the person who founded the band).

When I started my band, that was me. Fortunately for me now, my enthusiasm/ethos has infected the other two in the band, so we're quite well balanced in terms of that.

[Shady Ultima]

My new band is like that, the guitarist is really into it. He found the drummer and bassist, and I called into an ad. I'm the new guy, but so far it's been workin out really well. My music fits really well with theirs, and we're progressing pretty well.