Mics and Mixer

[Sabian4015]

Ok so, I've almost got money for both of these, but I was just making sure they would be good for recording and live gigs. So here they are...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-PG-4Piece-Drum-Microphone-Package?sku=270297
(http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-PG-4Piece-Drum-Microphone-Package?sku=270297)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-PMH1000-Europower-Powered-Mixer-?sku=631252

Would I need a power amp for this ^^^ for live gigs? If so I can buy that, because I've still got a month of work, and considering last week I made 350 USD I should be able to buy one. And also, can i go from the mics to the mixer to the computer with just a cable from the mixer to the computer?

[Jezen]

can i go from the mics to the mixer to the computer with just a cable from the mixer to the computer?

Well that's what I do.

[Sabian4015]

I know but I was just making sure there was an output for that.

I know almost nothing about this stuff.

[ian1988]

Well if the mixer oputput is 6.5mm and the PC's input is 3.5mm, just get the 6.5mm adapter for it and you're all sweet to go

[fishbulb]

What is the mixer output? Do you just plug it into the computer microphone port? If you do that, you will not be able to EQ it after you record it, which can be a bitch because you may get a good recording (you play well) but the levels are screwed up. I am planning on getting an M-Delta 1010 which is a PCI card for you computer with 8 quarter inch inputs. I'm getting that mixer that you have, but it has 8 XLR inputs instead of 6.

[Jezen]

you will not be able to EQ it after you record it

Yes you can...

[Sabian4015]

Well if the mixer oputput is 6.5mm and the PC's input is 3.5mm, just get the 6.5mm adapter for it and you're all sweet to go

I have one.

And fishbulb, you can mix it after. That's what the recording program is for.

But do you think that mixer will have enough power to do a live gig?

[Chippy569]

oh christ...

the mixer there is a powered mixer. that means its got the amps built right in.
do you have a stereo, like a home system style stereo? maybe this'll make it easy to understand.

The main box, with buttons like "tv" and "video" and "Dvd" is called the "amplifier." Really though, it does 2 tasks - mixer and amplifier. if you look on the back of that box, it's got a lot of inputs. each input is one channel. instead of having the channels named "1, 2, 3..." the channels are named "tv" "video" "dvd" etc. Now, when you power it up, you select a channel. That's the mixing part.

Within the box, the signal moves through the mixer and into the amplifier. That signal strength is very small. turn your car stereo on 1 or 0 and that's how "loud" that signal is (car on 0 = 0 amplification.) So, the signal moves into the amplifier, to make the signal X times stronger, meaning "strong enough to move a speaker" which = loud enough to hear. That's what the amplifier part of your home theatre amp does.


Now lets think about how this works with your behringer there. you've got some pretty OK mics picked out. not great, but they're better than none. Those mics are like your cd player and dvd player and tv and vcr. You plug the mics into the mixer with XLR cabling (the circle with 3pins). The behringer has the amp built in, so you select your channels and the mixer sends the signal into its built in amp. That amp sends the signal to the "main output" of the mixer - probably a Left and Right channel. [edit - in looking at the "back" picture - the two Speakon outputs on the right side (the circles) are your powered outputs.] Those outputs go to SPEAKERS and NEVER to your pc, or you're going to fry your soundcard.

i'll get back to how to hook to your pc in just a min, but you asked about volume for gigging.... it gives you 2x200w power, right? that's 200w per channel, on two channels (left and right). That's enough for a small or medium coffee shop, i'm thinking a space that's maybe 75' square... two good sized livingrooms. if you're playing bigger shows, they should have **** for you anyway.

back to PC's. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MULTITRACK using this mixer, so if that's what you want to do get the notion out of your head. go buy a firepod instead. What you WILL be able to do, is the cheap man's recording. At the top of the front, in the center, you'll see some RCA (like on your home stereo) jacks - red and white. (red is right, white is left usually.) it says like "Tape output/input" or something. You can use the "Tape Output" connectors to go to your PC. you're going to need something similar to this:
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/cmr-200.html
the RCA ends go in your mixer, and the 3.5mm (1/8") end goes to the "mic in" or preferably "line in" of your audio card.

Fire up Audacity, set it to record in stereo (2 chan - dunno how to do this? just ask), hit record, start playing. just keep in mind, YOU'RE NOT MULTITRACKING, you're only recording left and right. that means, if your kick drum sounds like ****, you're not going to be able to edit it without editing everything else as well.




good luck!
(p.s. this post was to everyone in general, not necessarily just to the TS. much love.)

[fishbulb]

Yes you can...
And fishbulb, you can mix it after. That's what the recording program is for.
back to PC's. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MULTITRACK using this mixer, so if that's what you want to do get the notion out of your head. go buy a firepod instead. What you WILL be able to do, is the cheap man's recording. At the top of the front, in the center, you'll see some RCA (like on your home stereo) jacks - red and white. (red is right, white is left usually.) it says like "Tape output/input" or something. You can use the "Tape Output" connectors to go to your PC. you're going to need something similar to this:
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/cmr-200.html
the RCA ends go in your mixer, and the 3.5mm (1/8") end goes to the "mic in" or preferably "line in" of your audio card.

Fire up Audacity, set it to record in stereo (2 chan - dunno how to do this? just ask), hit record, start playing. just keep in mind, YOU'RE NOT MULTITRACKING, you're only recording left and right. that means, if your kick drum sounds like ****, you're not going to be able to edit it without editing everything else as well.

Whose right now?

Hey chippy, what do you think of the M-Audio Delta 1010?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Delta-1010-PCI-Digital-Audio-System?sku=701340

The mics would plug into the mixer, then each of the microphone inputs will have an output to go to that PCI card. I've heard that it works really well.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Delta-1010-LT-PCI-Digital-Audio-System?sku=701376

That is the LT of the 1010, it is half the price, but i have absolutely NO idea how to hook it up and work the damn thing. Would you happen to know how to?

[Chippy569]

do you have PC or MAC?

doesn't really matter. Notice both items come with PCI cards. if you look on the back of your computer/whatever, there should be what looks like an indented box with horizontal bars that are bout .5" tall by 4-5" wide. Those are PCI slots... most pc's have at least 4. The green card you see on the 1010, as well as the blue card of the LT, go in those slots.

If you want to multitrack (As in, have 1 track be "kick drum" and 1 track be "snare drum" etc.), get that 1010. You'll also need a mixer with channel in/outs on the back. Look at a rear view of the Behringer 2442 mixer-

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/4/4/5/282445.jpg

- see that it has 8 plugs there on the back, on the right side? these are called channel sends/returns, or also channel inserts. The insert is a TRS connection - the tip is send, the ring is return, or something like that. If you plug the insert into, say, and equalizer, you can equalize that single channel through this method.

but that's not what we're interested in, we want to record with the 1010.

So, we go buy 8 of these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Hosa-Stereo-14-Phone-to-2--Mono-14-Phone-Insert-Cable?sku=333030

notice that it's a 1/4" TRS plug on one end, and two 1/4" TS plugs on the other. This is where it's fun. If your mixer channel insert is:
Tip = send
Ring = return

then you're going to plug the "tip" end of the hosa cable into your 1010 "input" and the "ring" end of the hosa cable to the 1010's "output." Now, you have 8 channels in your mixer that also equal the eight channels in your 1010! and the best part is, if you're running pre- or live-efx on the PC, they come out in the channel's mix. Now, you can multitrack. :D

You can't do multitracking with that powered mixer, because it doesn't have the channel inserts. does that make sense?

[fishbulb]

So That image with the 8 plugs in it, i can't use that mixer with the 1010? And this whole time you are talking about the 1010LT right?

[fishbulb]

You can't do multitracking with that powered mixer, because it doesn't have the channel inserts. does that make sense?

So that behringer mixer won't be able to work with the 1010?

I think you meant these cables instead of those quarter inch ones

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Hosa-Stereo-14--2-RCA?sku=333034

EDIT: Thankyou very very much for your time, also. I really appreciate it.

[Chippy569]

not the LT, i dont' have a clue how to use those. i wouldn't want to... they're a cabling nightmare. i'm talking about the bigger white box thing. look at the rear (on MF, click the "view larger" - in the pic there's one stacked on top of another... the bottom one facing backwards, showing the rear. notice that it has "inputs" on the top row, and "outputs" on the bottom row. those are where the two TS ends of the hosa cables go into.)

gimmie 10 minutes and i'll photoshop some **** for you.

[Chippy569]

here, this should help.

http://inkinc.hostedz.com/images/BasicMultitracking.jpg

[fishbulb]

Thanks a lot.

To an amp -> to speakers, that's only if you're doing a live show or if you want to play out of speakers, correct?

Wouldn't the LT be the same thing, but with the eigth inch cables, right?

[Chippy569]

about the amp, yes.

if you want to use the LT, you're on your own on how the hell to hook it up, i honestly don't know.

[fishbulb]

It would be nice to figure it out since it's half as much money, but at the same time i'm too lazy.

Again, thanks for your help.

[Chippy569]

you're going to need a lot of cable-type (ts to trs to xlr to rca to 5-pin midi to godknowswhat) converters, i think. but really, i don't know.

[fishbulb]

here, this should help.

http://inkinc.hostedz.com/images/BasicMultitracking.jpg

Why would the outputs of the 1010 go back into the mixer on the same cable? Couldn't i just take standard instrument cables (quarter inch to quarter inch) fromt he mixer output into the 1010 input?

[Sabian4015]

So i can't multi track the mics, i knew that. but you can still record the guitar and stuff and put it on different tracks right? Like plug the drum mics up, record it. Then unplug the drum mics, plug in the guitar cables, record, then put it on a different track. It will be different tracks right?

And Chippy I still don't understand, so I don't plug the mixer straight into the computer, I plug it into the speakers? But thanks for the help, you seem to know a ****load of this stuff, and I know nothing. Also, if I get the firepod thing it'll only let me mix half and half? That won't be much of an advantage.

And Fishbulb, I guess we misunderstood, I thought you meant different instruments not indivdual mics.

I apologize for being a noob.

[Chippy569]

fishbulb - if all you wanted to do was input audio into the PC, then yes all you need is some good 1/4" TS cables. however, if you plug your monitors/headphones/etc. into the mixer, you're going to need the signal returned to the mixer! that's what the return is for.



sabian- multitracking is recording multiple tracks at one time.
multiple takes are "record drums. ok now record guitars. ok now record bass" etc. you can do multiple takes with just a left/right, but you cannot multitrack with just left/right.

The "amp -> speakers" part is for your PA. in a "powered mixer," the amp is included.
you CAN plug it straight to the PC for recording, but again you're only going to get left/right.

the firepod is essentially the same thing as the 1010, but better quality.





to the both of 'yas: http://www.homerecording.com has a plethora of knowledge on it.

[fishbulb]

Oh, okay, so if i wanted to play out of speakers and record it at the same time, i would have to get those send/receive cables that plug into the 1010, then on the back of the behringer mixer, i would have the left and right main outputs that would go to the speakers, right? Would you use the quarter inch or the microphone outputs? What do the sub outputs and the control room outputs do?

Say i wanted to ONLY play out of speakers, i wouldn't need the 1010 at all would i? Just plug the mics into the mixer and then use the main outputs, right?

I think i'm getting this.

[Chippy569]

Oh, okay, so if i wanted to play out of speakers and record it at the same time, i would have to get those send/receive cables that plug into the 1010, then on the back of the behringer mixer, i would have the left and right main outputs that would go to the speakers, right? Would you use the quarter inch or the microphone outputs? What do the sub outputs and the control room outputs do?

Say i wanted to ONLY play out of speakers, i wouldn't need the 1010 at all would i? Just plug the mics into the mixer and then use the main outputs, right?

I think i'm getting this.
yep, you're on the right track. (you'll need an amplifier in between the mixer and the speakers, or you're not going to hear anything)

the XLR and 1/4" outputs that say "Main" are both the same thing - you can use either, or both, or whatever.

the sub-outputs and 'Control Room' are for bussing - and for more info on bussing, please go to http://www.homerecording.com - it's long and boring and i'm not feeling like writing it all out tonight, sorry.