Your view on: "Hope for the human race? / The potential to change"

[Damrod]

Since some pretty ****ty news headlines last week I've been pondering about the outlooks of the human race. Or better: I thought about it more in the last few days. A general thesis, I'm wondering what you folks think:

In a way, it seems that the administration is only administrating misery, and not really solving the problems. Not investing money where it is due, partly because the money simply is not there. Breaking the law by making more debts than investments, and it seems nobody cares. Sure, everybody says "This is bad, somebody should do something", but there is nothing happening. While the situation of the state is going down, the situation on the labour market is as well. News of companies scoring the best win and result of recent years or even ever, but at the same time quitting thousands of jobs. This is only a brief description of the current situation in Germany, but I guess it can be adapted to other countries with ease.

It seems like most of the people are united with the thought that this is not the way it should go. Yet, nothing is happening to do anything about it. People say "The political parties suck, no change or movement there". Still, they only jump between two parties, always chosing the lesser evil. "It's bad that people in the far East and Africa get exploited, someone should do something there". But, when people have to pay more for their clothes or whatever, they quickly drop those views for the favor of a better price. It seems that it's always about the money, and how to earn the best living. In many ways similar to behaviour found with different animals in free nature, it seems that all that matters in the end is "Do I get away with the best possible way to live and survive?"

So much for the starting information. This is not a new thing, and has been discussed often before. I don't want to aim at possibilities how it could be changed though, what I would like to throw as question into the ring:

Do you think that the human race has the potential to change this situation, or is willing to change the situation as it is now?

The ways how things could be changed were discussed often in the past, but somehow it seems like these possibilities were not pursued. There are ways to fight rascism for example, or the destruction of the rain forest, or to stop the hunger in African countries. Just to name some classic cases. Sometimes really easy ways. But nothing happens. Why?

Is it because we don't want to change? Or because we are blocked by corporations, administrations or anything else taking advantages from the current situation? Or is it for some completely different reason?

Really looking forward to your thoughts on that matter :)

[griftadan]

of course it has potential. but it requires concerted effort from atleast a majority of the people, and people are stupid.

[The Real El Capitano]

The African one has been tried time and again. Everytime we get something to the effect of the food for oil scandal of the U.N., or any money or relief that gets sent there is immideidley confiscated by warlords there.Also, backwards beliefs such as "Having sex with a virgin is the cure for AIDs" in Africa aren't helping anything either. Those of us,as in westernized/modernized countries have changed, hense the reason we enjoy standards of living like we do. Quite frankly,as inhumane as it sounds, I think it is not up to anyone but one's self to improve their situation, and that if Africa wants to keep going on like it is, then let them. Sooner or later they'll figure out that killing each other and spreading aids out the ying yang isn't the way to go about things, and hopefully one of those people that has realized something to this extent will gain seat in an office of power,and start making some changes. But if people, or Africa as a whole, doesn't want to change, then let them stay just the way they are and see how happy they are with it. As for administrations and the apathy of their pupils, I don't know what to tell you, but I don't think it's as bad as people like to make it sound. A country may be in debt, but I'm sure the people of said country are not experiencing debt and unemployment like that of The Great Depression,not in this day and age.But regardless of any of it,the human race will continue as it always has,change or not.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Mind boggling.... When I think of the world and its problems right now I can only think of it in mostly images and symbols. I think of rampant capitalist propaganda, cell phones, technology, globalization of capitalism leading to mass exploitation of unfortunate giant countries runned by a few robber barons, money, drugs, shantytowns, fires, pollution, deceptive politicians, alot of hypocritical people, a few people who give up their livlihoods to aid world problems, millions more that confess to sympathize until gas goes up 3 more cents. on and on and on

[AA-12]

Humanity is a hive minded pile of worthless existence, in general. I want to end this in a way I ended a similiar arguement today by quoting Varg Vikernes, as this sums up my thoughts.

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere. He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature. He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin. He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing. The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

[TojesDolan]

If human race would get stuck in the same stage for a certain period of time, te probably change would be due to happen. It doesn't because of the constant changes happening within the human race. Let me explain this point further.

Everyday, at least one poor person is born. You name the place, there's a new poor somewhere in the earth. That's not a fact, though. Let's say that there's a new rich person born every three days. There's more poor people being born (therefore, troubled people) than rich people being born (the ones with less problems, apparently), and the riches have to be split. If you are poor from the get-go, what do you have to share? Nothing. The little resources that the family has have to be split over, and over, and over again.

That was a very black/white spectrum of what's going on in the world at the moment, but the thought is still valid: Those who need positive changes in their lives grow to an exponential level, and if you try to help one poor family, thirty families will be in need after that, and so on, and so forth. This families have to do something about it, so they use natural resources in a way that they can't keep up with the demand, therefore they get overused, they extinct, it's all done by this point.

The earth's demand is too much for natural resources to keep up with the growing demand, hence the issues with water, food, rainforest, etc. etc. Therefore all the problems going on. It can all easily join the "humanity overgrowth" bandwagon. A wise man once said that if you split all the money of the world among all the people living in it, you won't have some riches and a lot of poor, you'll have a world full of poor people. Despite the attempts of diverse groups (name them Bono, Angelina Jolie, Jesus) to help others, the necessity is always large than the possibilities to help. Stopping the growth of mankind is the only (and very unlikely) way that's slightly possible to help all the ones in necessity.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Humanity is a hive minded pile of worthless existence, in general. I want to end this in a way I ended a similiar arguement today by quoting Varg Vikernes, as this sums up my thoughts.

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere. He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature. He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin. He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing. The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

Wow man, that's just like Fight Club :)

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

It's also ****ing stupid.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Why's that? I think there's something to be learned from that.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

Well, I get this kind of rubbish from my sister all the time, along the lines of, 'Can't we all go back to nature, and make our own food, and live to an avergae of about 26, and man globalisation sucks.'

And I have concluded that this train of thought is quite futile and irrelevant to most people. If you consider it, it's a practical impossiblity as of the present day.

Also, and this is what I really dislike, it is a gross idealisation of historic ways of life.

[chicoplanetDOTcom]

I agree that it is stupid. Probably one of the least profound, one-sided, statements I have ever heard. Let's break apart what he says and analyze it:

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere."

- No roots? This guy says things out of some sort of spiritual hierarchy. If we are animals, then why is he holding us to some higher standard? Be honest, polar bears trek miles as do elephants. No animal sits around in one spot... they all disperse. So part one is stupid.

"He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature."

Elephants dont grow their own food... neither do monkeys or giraffes. Off-hand, I am only thinking of ants... they grow shrooms underground and farm aphids... So are we so bad? Are we not like any other creature on this earth? And what on earth am I going to do with seashells anyway?

"He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin."

Well if I had to, I would. But I dont... so why would I? I dont see how this is relevant. I've been in Thailand where people make small huts with no walls to live in. It probably takes them a few days to build. My 3300 sq. ft. house would take me at least a yr alone. Am I at fault here? Ill do what I want...BECAUSE I FREAKIN' CAN! I'm happy, the Thai guy is happy, so let it be.

"He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing."

No living creature has respect for nature. In that essence, I think we have MUCH more respect than anything for the care of the earth. I dont want to hear about how I have a responsibility because I am more intelligent. Monkeys are more intelligent than ants, yet all they do is cause disaster. Fault? I think not. They are just animals...living life.

"The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

SOUL? WTF? Does this guy know what a soul is? Your soul is your feelings right? It obviously isnt a spirit. It is chemicals, and I am perfectly happy how I am. So let it die. My soul is happy, not dead... Again, this quote is stupid.

[lynch_me]

Beliefs create behaviors so maybe it’s a matter of transcending old beliefs not necessarily "reject the old and accept the new, totally"

[Spoonful of Shame]

Were all doomed :eek:

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Well, I get this kind of rubbish from my sister all the time, along the lines of, 'Can't we all go back to nature, and make our own food, and live to an avergae of about 26, and man globalisation sucks.'

And I have concluded that this train of thought is quite futile and irrelevant to most people. If you consider it, it's a practical impossiblity as of the present day.

Also, and this is what I really dislike, it is a gross idealisation of historic ways of life.

Well ya it is rubbish, but Fight Club didn't suggest that we revert to that, because well Tyler Durden was killed in the end, the main character overcame that radical idea that Tyler Durden represented and moved on, it was kind of one last look at the past kind of thing. I think you just like bitching.

[AA-12]

I agree that it is stupid. Probably one of the least profound, one-sided, statements I have ever heard. Let's break apart what he says and analyze it:

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere."

- No roots? This guy says things out of some sort of spiritual hierarchy. If we are animals, then why is he holding us to some higher standard? Be honest, polar bears trek miles as do elephants. No animal sits around in one spot... they all disperse. So part one is stupid.

"He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature."

Elephants dont grow their own food... neither do monkeys or giraffes. Off-hand, I am only thinking of ants... they grow shrooms underground and farm aphids... So are we so bad? Are we not like any other creature on this earth? And what on earth am I going to do with seashells anyway?

"He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin."

Well if I had to, I would. But I dont... so why would I? I dont see how this is relevant. I've been in Thailand where people make small huts with no walls to live in. It probably takes them a few days to build. My 3300 sq. ft. house would take me at least a yr alone. Am I at fault here? Ill do what I want...BECAUSE I FREAKIN' CAN! I'm happy, the Thai guy is happy, so let it be.

"He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing."

No living creature has respect for nature. In that essence, I think we have MUCH more respect than anything for the care of the earth. I dont want to hear about how I have a responsibility because I am more intelligent. Monkeys are more intelligent than ants, yet all they do is cause disaster. Fault? I think not. They are just animals...living life.

"The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

SOUL? WTF? Does this guy know what a soul is? Your soul is your feelings right? It obviously isnt a spirit. It is chemicals, and I am perfectly happy how I am. So let it die. My soul is happy, not dead... Again, this quote is stupid.
Oh wow, haha. You took that wayyyy too literal.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Humanity is a hive minded pile of worthless existence, in general. I want to end this in a way I ended a similiar arguement today by quoting Varg Vikernes, as this sums up my thoughts.

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere. He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature. He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin. He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing. The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

Omg okay if you guys think about it, everything from that quote is true save for the opinion at the end, but even then it could be taken as "he has lost everything he once had, and has yet acquired new things."

I think that they think that the writer is suggesting we go back to those times....

[sr800bkBassist]

No living creature has respect for nature. In that essence, I think we have MUCH more respect than anything for the care of the earth. I dont want to hear about how I have a responsibility because I am more intelligent. Monkeys are more intelligent than ants, yet all they do is cause disaster. Fault? I think not. They are just animals...living life.

i beg to differ.

humans have destroyed so much of the earth with only wastefulness and gluttony in mind.

we are the only living things that inflicts cruelty on other animals for fun.

we are the only living things that look at wasting the skin of an animal as a status symbol (for warmth during winter by Native Americans and such is different, they needed it. Puff Daddy does not need those fur coats).

we are the only living thing that destroys land in the name of gluttony/greed. some animals destroy small pieces of land, like animals who take things apart to built nests and such, but they need to. it's for their small homes. we destroy acres upon acres for businesses)

we are the only living things that pollute the environment -excessively-. i used "excessively" because technically everything contributes something, but a monkey never caused an oil spill, a bird never dumped toxic waste on a field, a rabbit never built up a landfill.

[WhoDidTheElf]

i beg to differ.

humans have destroyed so much of the earth with only wastefulness and gluttony in mind.

we are the only living things that inflicts cruelty on other animals for fun.

we are the only living things that look at wasting the skin of an animal as a status symbol (for warmth during winter by Native Americans and such is different, they needed it. Puff Daddy does not need those fur coats).

we are the only living thing that destroys land in the name of gluttony/greed. some animals destroy small pieces of land, like animals who take things apart to built nests and such, but they need to. it's for their small homes. we destroy acres upon acres for businesses)

we are the only living things that pollute the environment -excessively-. i used "excessively" because technically everything contributes something, but a monkey never caused an oil spill, a bird never dumped toxic waste on a field, a rabbit never built up a landfill.

BULL ****

I'm sorry but you have clearly never seen a cat play with it's pray, kill it or wound it to the point it will die in the near future, and leave it to rot.

I watched my cat do this to countless snakes and birds.

[sr800bkBassist]

BULL ****

I'm sorry but you have clearly never seen a cat play with it's pray, kill it or wound it to the point it will die in the near future, and leave it to rot.

I watched my cat do this to countless snakes and birds.
they don't get a laugh out of it.
they are killing it not because they death funny, not because they get a rise out of misfortunes, but because it's their nature and they do not realize that they are depriving a fellow animal of it's life.

they'd treat a toy the same way. they can't take into acount the pain, they just do what they know.

[WhoDidTheElf]

they don't get a laugh out of it.
they are killing it not because they death funny, not because they get a rise out of misfortunes, but because it's their nature and they do not realize that they are depriving a fellow animal of it's life.

they'd treat a toy the same way. they can't take into acount the pain, they just do what they know.


You don't think they do it to entertain them selves?

I mean he'll nail the bird, bite it and stuff, let it get back up and take a dazed look around, then jump on it again, smack it up and leave it. At this point the things so wrecked it will die in about 5 minutes or so, if it isn't already.

And I don't think that many people just kill aniamls for ****s and giggles.

I mean were nothing but animals right? Hell, who says we know better?

[thunderzstruck]

I mean were nothing but animals right? Hell, who says we know better?

So you don't know how to treat animals better thn your cat? wow..

[Reaganista]

In a way, it seems that the administration is only administrating misery, and not really solving the problems. Not investing money where it is due, partly because the money simply is not there. Breaking the law by making more debts than investments, and it seems nobody cares.
what

[The Living Dead]

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere. He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature. He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin. He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing. The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

I always thought Varg harboured a secret desire to be a viking.

[Damrod]

Interesting points about the "back to nature"-thing :)

I think the most interesting thing was the one about spreading all the wealth of the world equaly among all, resulting in only poor people. If one thinks about that, and you take into consideration that something should change, would that mean the only solution is to radically change the way the society works? Or our economy, which might be more fitting this

[Smokey D]

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere. He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature. He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin. He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing. The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

Now you have to explain why any of that is better than expanded human rights, increased standards of living and political freedom for an ever increasing number of the world's inhabitants.

The Noble Savage was a stupid concept in the 18th Century and its a stupid one today.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Now you have to explain why any of that is better than expanded human rights, increased standards of living and political freedom for an ever increasing number of the world's inhabitants.

The Noble Savage was a stupid concept in the 18th Century and its a stupid one today.

Well I'm not arguing for it exactly but, it would seem to me like elevated standards of living would not work in the world today, or perhaps at all, the kkkapitalist globalized organization doesn't allow for it, we need poor to fodder our economic machine.

[sr800bkBassist]

You don't think they do it to entertain them selves?

I mean he'll nail the bird, bite it and stuff, let it get back up and take a dazed look around, then jump on it again, smack it up and leave it. At this point the things so wrecked it will die in about 5 minutes or so, if it isn't already.

And I don't think that many people just kill aniamls for ****s and giggles.

I mean were nothing but animals right? Hell, who says we know better?
the thing is, even though we all don't abuse animals, we all have the capacity to, and many people do it.

we know better because we know what pain is, and we know if we kick a dog, the dog will feel pain. when you're playing with your cat and he/she digs their claws into your arm, they do it because it's part of their routine, not because they know what hurts you.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Standards of living around the world are rising. Seriously, things aren't great and we're moving into an age of new threats (although please, find me an era where that hasn't been the case).

Is that true?

[Iskandar]

Is that true?
Yeah, pretty much. The problem is that they aren't increasing at nearly the same speed.

[sr800bkBassist]

Is that true?
on a larger scale, yes. standards now are better than standards in the 50's, which are better than standards in the 1910's, which are better than in the 1800's, etc.

but of course on a small scale there are always shifts up and down between years, especially in inner-cities and such.

[WhoDidTheElf]

the thing is, even though we all don't abuse animals, we all have the capacity to, and many people do it.

we know better because we know what pain is, and we know if we kick a dog, the dog will feel pain. when you're playing with your cat and he/she digs their claws into your arm, they do it because it's part of their routine, not because they know what hurts you.


Edit:

Alright I botched my responce.

How does us knowing what pain is, make us any better than aniamls? And who's to say the cat doesn't know what pain is?

[Reaganista]

Is that true?
of course it's ****ing true are you retarded or something

[ATC]

Sooner or later they'll figure out that killing each other and spreading aids out the ying yang isn't the way to go about things, and hopefully one of those people that has realized something to this extent will gain seat in an office of power,and start making some changes.

And by this point we shall have an even larger number of HIV positive people within a globalising world.

"The modern man has lost his connection to the soil of his forefathers. The modern man's connection to his forefathers and the gods of his blood is lost too. He travels all across the Earth as a creature with no roots anywhere. He no longer grows his own food, he no longer catches his own fish or meat, he no longer milks the cows or collects eggs, berries, nuts, fruit and sea shells from nature. He no longer builds his own home or buries his own kin. He has lost his respect for nature, for his fatherland and for his kin, but he has gained nothing. The soul of the modern man is dead. He has lost almost everything."

Except Wotan and Freya and all the rest know that milking cows isn't natural, any more than cooking your own food or ****ting in a hole in the ground as opposed to under a tree not freezing your *** off in sub-zero temperatures. It's not natural at all.

You could argue that milking cows is an essential component of soul. After all, that undefinable essence did not exist before man discovered a sedentary existence. I'm in Asia on vacation for a month and I just asked an old Sri Lankan woman if she thought that cows were really all that. She told me that souls cannot be created or destroyed, that they just are. Then again, all generations of her family have been fisherfolk and maybe they're less wise than those cow-hugging hippies you idolize. Never confuse tuna for a cow is the moral to this. Lykke Til.