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Sun Ra
06-23-2006, 10:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism

"Transhumanist philosophers argue that there not only exists an ethical imperative for humans to strive for progress and improvement of the human condition but that it is possible and desirable for humanity to enter a post-Darwinian phase of existence, in which humans are in control of their own evolution. In such a phase, natural evolution would be replaced with deliberate change. To this end, transhumanists engage in interdisciplinary approaches to understanding and evaluating possibilities for overcoming biological limitations."

I think this is really really interesting, you guys should read that wiki. What do you think future political systems would be like if the Transhumanist goal was ever fully realized? Because I mean "post-Darwinian" doesn't really have a KKKapitalist ring to it...

I think that things like Transhumanism and debates about the ethics of genetic expirimentation are potential indicators of the impending evolution of society's political structure and how we think.


"The transhumanist vision of a profoundly transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters as well as critics from a wide range of perspectives. Transhumanism has been described by a proponent as the "movement that epitomizes the most daring, courageous, imaginative, and idealistic aspirations of humanity,"[2] while according to a prominent critic, it is the world's most dangerous idea.[3]"

"The majority of transhumanists are materialists who do not believe in a transcendent human soul. Transhumanist personhood theory also argues against the unique identification of moral actors and subjects with biological humans, judging as speciesist the exclusion of nonhuman and part-human animals, and sophisticated machines, from ethical consideration.[29] Many believe in the compatibility of human minds with computer hardware, with the theoretical implication that human consciousness may someday be transferred to alternative media.[30]"

This is something that comes across to me as a blatent disregard for religion, among other things, and the potential for people to finally concentrate on our progress as humans.

Against Miik!
06-23-2006, 10:13 PM
Thats basically what genetic engineering using stem cells and other shit is.

Sun Ra
06-23-2006, 10:16 PM
Thats basically what genetic engineering using stem cells and other shit is.

Not quite, transhumanism emphasizes the enhancement of individuals as opposed to progress in medicines and what not for the masses, and it has social/phil implications.

BludgeonySteve
06-24-2006, 12:09 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me. Who wouldn't want to improve theirselves in that sense? (other than Christians). Despite some of the non-religious arguments, I don't see who has the right to restrict people from practicing transhumanism.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 01:26 AM
I'm not arguing for or against it, but this is one step closer to all of us being machines (sounds funny I know) and to put it boldly: one step closer to true communism, good or bad Idk.

PerpetualBurn
06-24-2006, 03:34 AM
The real question is: are humans smart enough to choose better than natural selection?

Could we deliberately breed our traits without f*cking up somewhere along the line?

StreetlightRock
06-24-2006, 04:44 AM
I'm not arguing for or against it, but this is one step closer to all of us being machines (sounds funny I know) and to put it boldly: one step closer to true communism, good or bad Idk.

Ha. A Transhumanist society will be inevitably bound by money, and if anything, creating even further devides within the human race. That said, Transhumanism scares the living s'hits outta me, as does any vision of a utopic society.

Hep Kat
06-24-2006, 07:06 AM
Just another reason for humanity to bolster its God complex.

Chrizzle fo' Shizzle
06-24-2006, 10:11 AM
I was reading up on this. The "Posthuman God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman_God)" idea is some neat shit

sjada
06-24-2006, 11:42 AM
Sounds like a good way to give control of your own life to someone else.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 01:22 PM
more like give your life to everyone else, and their life to you lol

sjada
06-24-2006, 02:27 PM
But could we assume that we could make it that perfect?

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 02:45 PM
You mean allow the human race to reach its final destination in something like communism and do it perfectly? Idk maybe, we'd be genetically enhancing ourselves to deal with certain ideas (post-darwinian ideas) is what I think of.

AA-12
06-24-2006, 04:26 PM
Darwinsm > Everything

Interesting read though.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 05:02 PM
oh it is?

AA-12
06-24-2006, 05:02 PM
Yes.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 05:11 PM
how so?

gmoneyguy
06-24-2006, 05:11 PM
The real question is: are humans smart enough to choose better than natural selection?

Could we deliberately breed our traits without f*cking up somewhere along the line?
I doubt it.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 05:17 PM
I doubt it.

what if we eliminated the traits that would f*ck us up somewhere along the line

gmoneyguy
06-24-2006, 05:36 PM
what if we eliminated the traits that would f*ck us up somewhere along the line
How would that effect intelligence? People are dumb plain an simple, we don't know what the future hold in store for us, and how will it change. I guarantee that if we get to that point humans will change traits for the present rather think ahead. Natural Selction has done good job since our existence. I don't see a need to stop it.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 06:42 PM
You don't think we've all gotten smarter over thousands of years??

StreetlightRock
06-24-2006, 07:10 PM
Sure we have. Smart enough to realise that we can't place our evolution in the fallible hands of human technology.

AA-12
06-24-2006, 07:13 PM
Sure we have. Smart enough to realise that we can't place our evolution in the fallible hands of human's technology.
Well said.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 10:01 PM
lol but we would eliminate the fallible-ness from our hands in the process. Imagine a future where nobody needs to strive for personal gain, we are all completely advanced to the point that desires are fullfilled, we live in harmony, no countries, perhaps space travel.

Smokey D
06-24-2006, 10:38 PM
The real question is: are humans smart enough to choose better than natural selection?

Could we deliberately breed our traits without f*cking up somewhere along the line?

Surely we have done that already by eliminating or mitigating natural processes that would otherwise select against the weakest.

Sun Ra
06-24-2006, 11:47 PM
Surely we have done that already by eliminating or mitigating natural processes that would otherwise select against the weakest.

?? I think your missing the bigger picture, humans pose threats to humans, and the real issue here darwinism and post-darwinism within the aspect of society, not the wild which we already dominate

Smokey D
06-25-2006, 12:16 AM
Um, we have already contravened natural selection by shifting the playing field. That's all I said.

Sun Ra
06-25-2006, 12:24 AM
Well then ya, and we talk about natural selection now in the context of our human societies.

StreetlightRock
06-25-2006, 05:03 AM
lol but we would eliminate the fallible-ness from our hands in the process. Imagine a future where nobody needs to strive for personal gain, we are all completely advanced to the point that desires are fullfilled, we live in harmony, no countries, perhaps space travel.

A bland, valueless, soulless, stagnant future with the total atomisation of society and lack of individual identity is what I see in that vision, assuming that transhumanism can truly root out the complexities of human emotion to keep us permanently happy by devaluing love and death (to name a few), and objectifying what it is to be human. A world without strive for personal gain, without a dialectic between opposing forces, is a world not worth living in. Perhaps a trans-humanist utopia would truly render everyone ‘happy’. The price paid for that happiness however, would be beyond measure.

Smokey D
06-25-2006, 08:00 AM
Well then ya, and we talk about natural selection now in the context of our human societies.

It's not natural when it's artificial.

YouGottaBeCrazy
06-25-2006, 10:07 AM
These ideas are freaking me out...I need some Soma.

gmoneyguy
06-25-2006, 11:38 AM
I al so think if we got this point it would be considered unethical.

Synclastic Infundibulum
06-25-2006, 11:55 AM
These ideas are freaking me out...I need some Soma.
lol badum pshh!