Min. Wage

[Der Übermensch]

Currently, the min. wage in the US is $5.15. This means that a worker at min. wage, who is employed the whole year with reasonable hours makes something like $6,000 below the poverty line. A bill to increase min. wage was recently defeated by the Republicans (only 8 of who voted in favor)... again... The last increase was 10 years ago or so. How is it that a country can allow its people to be left in such a position? I'm happy to say that some states have taken steps to increase their own, such as Maine which has $6.50, but this doesn't help the millions of people who have no means to lift themselves out of poverty due to the economic policies of their elected government.

[BassRevelation1029]

what can we do, so long we have crooked people at the head of our government?

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

I think they should find something reasonable to set it to and then adjust it every year for inflation. If it was good enough 10 years ago, then the corresponding figure should be ok now.

I'm not too much of an expert on the cost of living in the US, or how many people actually work full time 52 weeks a year at minimum wage, so I can't really say how low 5.15 is, but here it's 7.50$ CDN (or 5.75 if you earn tips, I believe? It's almost unheard of for places to actually only pay 5.75 though), which is pretty reasonable. I think most other provinces have it at 8$/hour. What I do know is that most companies that pay minimum wage have a pretty good system for increasing wages every X hours of work, so if you spend say 10 years of your life working full time at McDonalds, by the end of it you're earning a lot more than minimum wage. That makes a lot more sense to me than paying every 15 year old kid who washes dishes a salary he could live off of.

[Sun Ra]

lol if we raised minimum wage then even more companies would outsource

[Jharaski]

If you raise mininum wage, everyone will want a rase. $7.00 an hour isn't too bad now, for high school students at least, but who will be happy with it if 7.00 becomes the mininum wage? 5.15 per hour with 2 parents working is fine. My family makes $18,000 / year and we're fine.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

lol if we raised minimum wage then even more companies would outsource


What kind of job would get outsourced? I don't know about the US, but most low-skill manufacturing jobs (which tend to be outsourced) aren't paid minimum wage here anyway.

[Sun Ra]

you gotta suck it up, theres like a tug a rope going on in that immigrants are coming here and suckin up jobs and lowerin wage while white people go 'wtf' when they dont understand that their jobs arent immediately going to india because immigrants are taking it up the *** for everyone, either way and eventually the white middle class is slowly getting pumped

What kind of job would get outsourced? I don't know about the US, but most low-skill manufacturing jobs (which tend to be outsourced) aren't paid minimum wage here anyway.

lets just put it this way, when u break a leg and take an x-ray, ur x-ray isnt examined in america

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Most people making minimum wage are teenagers who still live with their parents

[Jharaski]

you gotta suck it up, theres like a tug a rope going on in that immigrants are coming here and suckin up jobs and lowerin wage while white people go 'wtf' when they dont understand that their jobs arent immediately going to india because immigrants are taking it up the *** for everyone, either way and eventually the white middle class is slowly getting pumped



lets just put it this way, when u break a leg and take an x-ray, ur x-ray isnt examined in america

Try again, but be more coherent.

[Sun Ra]

Try again, but be more coherent.
**** you

[Othersides]

lets just put it this way, when u break a leg and take an x-ray, ur x-ray isnt examined in america

No not really.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

lets just put it this way, when u break a leg and take an x-ray, ur x-ray isnt examined in america

Do American x-ray examinors get paid minimum wage?

If you're already earning 6 bucks an hour and they increase minimum wage to 5.50, the increase will have no impact on your job being outsourced.

[Jharaski]

The x ray technician gets paid pretty poorly but it's a doctor that looks at it =/

[Der Übermensch]

lol if we raised minimum wage then even more companies would outsource
How do you outsource Janitors or McDonalds workers? Min. Wage is mostly service industry and other jobs that can't be outsourced.

Freethinkers brought up inflation. I'm pretty sure Min. wage is worth 20% less then it was when passed initialy due to inflation costs.

My family makes $18,000 / year and we're fine.
Min wage earns about 10,800 a year if I remember right. Nowhere near enough to live on, barely enough for one, let along a family. However, the area you live in makes things different I guess...

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Very few, if any, people are supporting a family on minimum wage. I don't even know of any place that actually pays minimum wage, even to teenagers

[Jharaski]

18K a year is paying off our $8,000 a year taxes, and our $120,000 loan which we used to add the second floor for my sister and her husband. My sister who makes about the same contributes very little because she has her own bills. Her husband makes more but has his truck and college to still pay off so he can't help. And we're fine.

[StrikerSC]

It's very simple my dear ... while minimum wage is good for the average, hard working American, it's bad for big business ... why pay citizens and legal immigrants a fair wage when you can exploit the illegal immigrants within our nations borders? Illegal immigrants don't need workers comp, a pension, severance pay, or medical benefits ... psh!

[Sun Ra]

It's very simple my dear ... while minimum wage is good for the average, hard working American, it's bad for big business ... why pay citizens and legal immigrants a fair wage when you can exploit the illegal immigrants within our nations borders? Illegal immigrants don't need workers comp, a pension, severance pay, or medical benefits ... psh!

yes, and guess who works with big businesses everyone? lawmakers you got it!

[Jharaski]

yes, and guess who works with big businesses everyone? lawmakers you got it!

What the hell does that have to do with anything? You raise mininum wage, and the only people who will get more money are people making anything withi na dollar of the mininum wage, mostly high school students.

[Rats!]

If you raise mininum wage, everyone will want a rase. $7.00 an hour isn't too bad now, for high school students at least, but who will be happy with it if 7.00 becomes the mininum wage? 5.15 per hour with 2 parents working is fine. My family makes $18,000 / year and we're fine.
18k a year? does your whole family work at mcdonalds?

[Reaganista]

this thread brought to you by walmart

[Jharaski]

18k a year? does your whole family work at mcdonalds?
My mom is an aid at a school. My sister is a medical assistant, but she's got her own bills to pay and can't help us. I have no idea where the money comes from, honestly. She put $2,000 into my account for paying for college. And I've SEEN the bank statements... We don't make a lot.

[Der Übermensch]

18K a year is paying off our $8,000 a year taxes, and our $120,000 loan
So after taxes you make 10,000 a year. Lets say you spend $100 a week on groceries for 5200 a year. Take of another 1000 for bills and such. Another 800 for random expenses that may occur. We're now down to 3,000... and I think thats giving a lot. If all of that wwent towards paying off your loan, we are talking 40 years of debt... more like 45-50 if you factor in interest. 60 if you include the fact that other large expenses will happen every now and then.
No offense, but I hardly call 2 generations of debt as 'fine'. Getting by perhaps, but not fine. As my Current Events teacher always said, you're one heart attack away from bankruptcy.

[MAthiAS]

My mom is an aid at a school. My sister is a medical assistant, but she's got her own bills to pay and can't help us. I have no idea where the money comes from, honestly. She put $2,000 into my account for paying for college. And I've SEEN the bank statements... We don't make a lot.
Out of curiosity, where do you live?

[thedeadwalk!]

I remember reading somewhere that healthcare and other fringe benefits rather than one's wages or salary has a greater strain on the finances of a business.

[Der Übermensch]

I remember reading somewhere that healthcare and other fringe benefits rather than one's wages or salary has a greater strain on the finances of a business.

True, you can survive on min wage fine with no insurance of any kind. You just get royally ****ed if you need a docter.

[Jharaski]

So after taxes you make 10,000 a year. Lets say you spend $100 a week on groceries for 5200 a year. Take of another 1000 for bills and such. Another 800 for random expenses that may occur. We're now down to 3,000... and I think thats giving a lot. If all of that wwent towards paying off your loan, we are talking 40 years of debt... more like 45-50 if you factor in interest. 60 if you include the fact that other large expenses will happen every now and then.
No offense, but I hardly call 2 generations of debt as 'fine'. Getting by perhaps, but not fine. As my Current Events teacher always said, you're one heart attack away from bankruptcy.


Well so far we've been paying off the loan as part of a 15 year plan at like $900 per month. THAT my sister does contribute a little for. Property taxes are outrageous here. To answer Mathias, I live in Somerset County NJ. They're like $8000 per year here! In 2 years my mom becomes eligible to collect social security because my dad passed away, which I collected for about 10 months and has paid off a semester at Penn State. He made over $50,000 per year. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how we're doing it, but we are.

And we have great health insurance :p I had a $12,000 surgery in May and they paid for every cent - the operation, occupational therapy, food, the works.

[thedeadwalk!]

True, you can survive on min wage fine with no insurance of any kind. You just get royally ****ed if you need a docter.
I was intending that to be more along increasing minimum wage not impacting a business as much as fringe benefits they give their employees, considering insurance and what not requires paperwork which leads to lawyers and educated people to maintain this area of the business who probably make more than those whose paperwork is being filed.

[Der Übermensch]

And we have great health insurance I had a $12,000 surgery in May and they paid for every cent - the operation, occupational therapy, food, the works.
Thats definitly a good thing. Good insurance can do wonders.

[Ugoff]

Well so far we've been paying off the loan as part of a 15 year plan at like $900 per month. THAT my sister does contribute a little for. Property taxes are outrageous here. To answer Mathias, I live in Somerset County NJ. They're like $8000 per year here! In 2 years my mom becomes eligible to collect social security because my dad passed away, which I collected for about 10 months and has paid off a semester at Penn State. He made over $50,000 per year. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how we're doing it, but we are.

And we have great health insurance :pI had a $12,000 surgery in May and they paid for every cent - the operation, occupational therapy, food, the works.
Wow, I don’t know how you guys manage but that’s pretty good for you guys.

My dad works and my mom is a stay at home mom. My dad makes pretty good money. He's a professor (psychology) and he also has his private practice on the side. He probably makes about 70-80k a year but we always have some crazy **** happen and end up paying these expenses. Then my dad has to worry about the other expenses plus all the credit card/student lones (about 100k worth.)

Things might get easier for us after my dad’s accident. My dad was driving to work (to Sugar Land TX) and he got wrecked by a semi. The retard didn't have his lights on at night when he was pulling into the highway (what’s worse, this guy was busted with lb of marijuana before while driving his semi.) Luckily, my dad was driving a pickup and he only had minor scratches and burses. Then my dad had to deal with the first attorney he picked (he didn't do anything.) Then he got another one and it looks like things are getting done. If things go well, my dad might have enough money to pay most of the bills and help me get through college (I'm going to be going to college for a pretty long time.)

Enough about my family’s finances :p. I believe that it's about time that we raise minimum wages. There is no way someone could support themselves, or even their family on minimum wage. Hell, I don't know if $6.00 would even be enough. I really doubt that it would really cause in increase in outsourcing because most of those jobs are above minimum wage already. The thing is that if we raise minimum wages, then what we're probabally will see is a huge cutting of worker benefits.

[Jharaski]

What needs to really be done is improving the economy, so the $5.15 will go FURTHER than a quart of milk and loaf of bread. It only raises inflation to keep raising mininum wage. I do agree that there should be one. (In the past I said I think there should be none, but I was just playing Devil's Advocate.) Instead of reducing the salary of executives, companies will raise prices when confronted with higher expenses. So a decent amount of people will have more money, but things will cost more anyway. Grocery store prices will go up, since workers there will demand more money once their currently ok $7.50 becomes just above mininum wage.

On a side note with that. GM (I think) announced MASSIVE slashes to executive salary because of financial problems. Their CEO is going to make about 1/3 of what he would have and other execs will make like half. But I saw that ages ago in the paper.

[Ugoff]

What needs to really be done is improving the economy, so the $5.15 will go FURTHER than a quart of milk and loaf of bread. It only raises inflation to keep raising mininum wage. I do agree that there should be one. (In the past I said I think there should be none, but I was just playing Devil's Advocate.) Instead of reducing the salary of executives, companies will raise prices when confronted with higher expenses. So a decent amount of people will have more money, but things will cost more anyway. Grocery store prices will go up, since workers there will demand more money once their currently ok $7.50 becomes just above mininum wage.

On a side note with that. GM (I think) announced MASSIVE slashes to executive salary because of financial problems. Their CEO is going to make about 1/3 of what he would have and other execs will make like half. But I saw that ages ago in the paper.
Well yeah, that should really be our main goal but I don't see this economy improving any time soon.

I'm glad to finally see a CEO taking a paycut for a change. GM is in deep **** . Nobody bother with US made cars anymore :-/

[Jharaski]

Well yeah, that should really be our main goal but I don't see this economy improving any time soon.

I'm glad to finally see a CEO taking a paycut for a change. GM is in deep **** . Nobody bother with US made cars anymore :-/


Hey hey I drive a Dodge. Well drove... till it broke. It had 107,102 miles or summit like that.

[Ugoff]

Hey hey I drive a Dodge. Well drove... till it broke. It had 107,102 miles or summit like that.
I'm not saying that US made cars are crap, in fact they have made some pretty decent cars lately.

To be quite honest though, the Japanese cars do last longer. My dad had a 95' Pathfinder that lasted him about 170k miles until there were problems with the electrical system and my father had enough problems with it and traded it in to get a Quest.

[Jharaski]

I'm not saying that US made cars are crap, in fact they have made some pretty decent cars lately.

To be quite honest though, the Japanese cars do last longer. My dad had a 95' Pathfinder that lasted him about 170k miles until there were problems with the electrical system and my father had enough problems with it and traded it in to get a Quest.

I know, I'm just saying that I had one. And my brother in law is committed to American Cars (except Benz, which he loves)

The only reason the Stratus I had died was that my sister who had it before me took poor care of it, so it was only a matter of time once I got it.

[Against Miik!]

CEOs aren't worth what they make anyways. The CEO of Costco makes about 350,000 a year, and they are able to give there employees an average of 17 dollars an hour.

[Jharaski]

CEOs aren't worth what they make anyways. The CEO of Costco makes about 350,000 a year, and they are able to give there employees an average of 17 dollars an hour.

The CEO is the most important person in the company. They're generally not worth 50 million, but they certainly deserve over $100,000.

And if you think about it. 350,000 per year broken down to a full time salary is 169 bucks per hour that they can spread among all employees. It isn't much.

[Against Miik!]

The CEO is the most important person in the company. They're generally not worth 50 million, but they certainly deserve over $100,000.

And if you think about it. 350,000 per year broken down to a full time salary is 169 bucks per hour that they can spread among all employees. It isn't much.

In 05', the average compensation for the CEO of a S&P 500 company was 11.75 million. They certainly aren't worth that. 11.5 million could probably go a long way.

[Jharaski]

In 05', the average compensation for the CEO of a S&P 500 company was 11.75 million. They certainly aren't worth that. 11.5 million could probably go a long way.

True. But still. That's got to be one big company. $5,700 per hour for full time. (much less for the CEO considering the long hours) And thye probably have a few thousand employees to begin with if they're big enough to shell out that kind of money to a single executive.

[Ugoff]

CEOs aren't worth what they make anyways. The CEO of Costco makes about 350,000 a year, and they are able to give there employees an average of 17 dollars an hour.
That's actually a pretty conservative salary compared to some CEO's who make into the millions.

[Against Miik!]

True. But still. That's got to be one big company. $5,700 per hour for full time. (much less for the CEO considering the long hours) And thye probably have a few thousand employees to begin with if they're big enough to shell out that kind of money to a single executive.

Yeah, but we aren't talking about every employee here. Only the ones that are in need of the money.

[MAthiAS]

I live in Somerset County NJ.
Sup neighbor. :wave:

What needs to really be done is improving the economy, so the $5.15 will go FURTHER than a quart of milk and loaf of bread. It only raises inflation to keep raising mininum wage. I do agree that there should be one. (In the past I said I think there should be none, but I was just playing Devil's Advocate.) Instead of reducing the salary of executives, companies will raise prices when confronted with higher expenses. So a decent amount of people will have more money, but things will cost more anyway. Grocery store prices will go up, since workers there will demand more money once their currently ok $7.50 becomes just above mininum wage.
Institute maximum wage? :amaze:

[Against Miik!]

sup commie?

That's actually a pretty conservative salary compared to some CEO's who make into the millions.

WalMarts CEO draws in over 25,000,000 a year while his employees make an average of 8$ an hour, putting them below the poverty line.

[Jharaski]

My friend wants salary caps... primarily for CEO's, athletes, and musicians. The latter two will then only perform for the joy. The CEO will live modestly like everyone else and make the same hourly wage. Or something. He's a nut.

[MAthiAS]

Well there are salary caps for some professional athletes depending on the sport. They're just too high. With musicians it sounds like he just wants destruction of major labels.

[Against Miik!]

Salary caps aren't put on players themselves though.

[Jharaski]

Well there are salary caps for some professional athletes depending on the sport. They're just too high. With musicians it sounds like he just wants destruction of major labels.

He wants band members to make 10 cents per hour. Then again, he thinks his policies will cause massive deflation, making that 10 cents into what's like 10 dollars today. He just wants people who do it for fun, and not people like Blink 182. (lol)

[MAthiAS]

Salary caps aren't put on players themselves though.
Indirectly they are.
He wants band members to make 10 cents per hour. Then again, he thinks his policies will cause massive deflation, making that 10 cents into what's like 10 dollars today. He just wants people who do it for fun, and not people like Blink 182. (lol)
:lol:

[LittlePound]

what can we do, so long we have crooked people at the head of our government?
i'd agree here. I think there needs to be revision of the officials in the gov., honestly i don't know how we would do it but it needs to be done. The only alternative that i heard (that would keep the system the same but change the people) was to randomly appoint senators, kind of like alottery....but that doesn't seem like it'd work to well either.

[Against Miik!]

o wow thats the greatest idea i've ever heard.

Indirectly they are.



I suspose. Boo I lose.

[MAthiAS]

i'd agree here. I think there needs to be revision of the officials in the gov., honestly i don't know how we would do it but it needs to be done. The only alternative that i heard (that would keep the system the same but change the people) was to randomly appoint senators, kind of like alottery....but that doesn't seem like it'd work to well either.
That's the only idea you've heard? Wow. Um, campaign finance and lobbying reforms would be a place to start.

[Against Miik!]

What we needed to happen was for Ross Perot to win he 96' election.

[Jharaski]

Any man who said "If you see a snake, just kill it - don't appoint a committee on snakes," definitely deserves the presidency! And yeah. I would've voted for him. If I were 18 but I was only nine. :p

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

He wants band members to make 10 cents per hour. Then again, he thinks his policies will cause massive deflation, making that 10 cents into what's like 10 dollars today. He just wants people who do it for fun, and not people like Blink 182. (lol)


:lol:

Have you explained to him that massive deflation is even worse than massive inflation? Try paying off your 250 000$ mortgage at 10 cents an hour.

[Jharaski]

:lol:

Have you explained to him that massive deflation is even worse than massive inflation? Try paying off your 250 000$ mortgage at 10 cents an hour.


Aye when it comes to loans there will be lots of problems. But hopefully they'd adjust interest to be negative, to combat it accordingly.

[LittlePound]

That's the only idea you've heard? Wow. Um, campaign finance and lobbying reforms would be a place to start.
well i meant the only idea that i had heard from people outside these forums. Most people from around where i am don't really care much for politics so they don't care to discuss them. And i already told that guy it was a ridiculous idea cuz then we'd have people not knowing how to do the jobs doing the jobs but there does need to be changes. I find no fault in the gov. itself, just in the people in the gov.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

Aye when it comes to loans there will be lots of problems. But hopefully they'd adjust interest to be negative, to combat it accordingly.

Way to not understand the economy.


You'd just end up with banks repossessing every square inch of the country, and anybody with more than 10 000$ in their account retiring because they have 1 000 000 hours of work saved up.

[Jharaski]

Way to not understand the economy.


You'd just end up with banks repossessing every square inch of the country, and anybody with more than 10 000$ in their account retiring because they have 1 000 000 hours of work saved up.


Notice how I said hopefully. :p

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

Yeah, sort of like how that blonde girl with the huge titties that I saw on the bus will hopefully ring my doorbell in the next 10 minutes because she's horny :).

[Jharaski]

Yeah, sort of like how that blonde girl with the huge titties that I saw on the bus will hopefully ring my doorbell in the next 10 minutes because she's horny :).


Aye. But let's be realistic. There won't be deflation that'll cause the average salary to fall to 10 cents per hour.

[LittlePound]

she will, but that's when you find out she's a dude....

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

Aye. But let's be realistic. There won't be deflation that'll cause the average salary to fall to 10 cents per hour.


Yes, which is why I think your friend is a moron.

[Jharaski]

Yes, which is why I think your friend is a moron.


He's really not. He just overexaggerates a lot.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

Economists/bankers/whatever freak out when deflation hits 2%. 'Nuff said.

[Jharaski]

Economists/bankers/whatever freak out when deflation hits 2%. 'Nuff said.

Excuse my ignorance but where is there currently deflation? And did the US ever go through it?

[Against Miik!]

Excuse my ignorance but where is there currently deflation? And did the US ever go through it?

Yes.

[Jharaski]

Yes.
Other than after the Great Depression, at any point in the past.. say..150 years?

[MAthiAS]

Well any recession... 9/11 immediate aftermath comes to mind.

[Jharaski]

Well any recession... 9/11 immediate aftermath comes to mind.

Well that wasn't consistant. And not everything went down, the price of flags skyrocketed. ;)

[StreetlightRock]

this thread brought to you by walmart

Haha, best post so far.

[eburton04]

He's really not. He just overexaggerates a lot.


nah man, he's pure-mo-ron.


athletes, musicians, and actors are all paid by us.

we buy the merchandise

we go to the shows

for all three


they all deserve what theyre making.

the salary caps in sports give all the teams a cap to how much they can spend on all of their players salaries, this is based on how much money the sport generates, and how many players there are in the league.


there's no way of ending the cycle. its just big popularity contests.


make sense?





and i dunno about you guys but i hope my band makes it big and we make millions. or at least like... hundreds of thousands. hahaha. why not? right? might as well make a lot of money.. :chug:

[Der Übermensch]

Excuse my ignorance but where is there currently deflation? And did the US ever go through it?

Due to the nature of our economy, inflation is rampant. The moment we got off the gold standard, the dollar no longer stayed the same.

[DBoons Ghost]

I find it terribly amusing that someone would blame the government for minimum wage being what it is. Sure, they set it based on inflation and living standards, but most if not ALL min wage jobs are last resort for uneducated dead end people or students.

Min wage jobs are stepping stones. That's it. If you rely on a minimum wage job to take you through life, especially in a land full of opportunity like America, you've failed terribly.

I know it's harsh, but it's also true. The last time I worked a minimum wage job, was when I was a teenager.

[thrashfanatic2010]

My mom is an aid at a school. My sister is a medical assistant, but she's got her own bills to pay and can't help us. I have no idea where the money comes from, honestly. She put $2,000 into my account for paying for college. And I've SEEN the bank statements... We don't make a lot.

shut up, you're ****in poor. I eat poor people and their children.

[Der Übermensch]

Min wage jobs are stepping stones. That's it. If you rely on a minimum wage job to take you through life, especially in a land full of opportunity like America, you've failed terribly.
Min. wage isn't supposed to be a job you have to support your family, but it doesn't mean people aren't forced to resort too it. Min. wage should be at a level able to keep a family above the poverty line as far as yearly income goes...

[DBoons Ghost]

Min. wage isn't supposed to be a job you have to support your family, but it doesn't mean people aren't forced to resort too it. Min. wage should be at a level able to keep a family above the poverty line as far as yearly income goes...


The poverty line is relative to state. It's not the same all over the US.

Minimum wage jobs in certain parts of the country are the norm. Maybe your information on the exact specifics of the poverty line is slightly off?

I agree with you in regards to it being slightly off and abused by certain employers, but I'm just being realistic in regards to how you presented your post.

Stop blaming the govermnent for everything.

[Der Übermensch]

I found this with Google, a handy map of min. wage by state :)
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

Minimum wage jobs in certain parts of the country are the norm. Maybe your information on the exact specifics of the poverty line is slightly off?
I'm merely going by what I remember from the newspaper article I read yesterday morning :p Poverty is dependent on State, but States don't always reflect that. Maine, where I live, has one of the lower average incomes in the nation I believe, which while I don't have the numbers, would imply to me that the amount at which one is considered impoverished would be considerably lower then Virginia fir example. Yet Maine had one of the highest minimum wages. You would think that Maine would have a lower minimum wage then Virginia, but its actually a dollar more. Its quite sad that I, a teenager, am earning 6.75 an hour, and amount I'm quite happy with, while a single mother in Virginia working as a Janitor to support her family might be getting $1.60 less then I do...

Note: Average income in Virginia is 10,000 more then in Maine.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/medincsizeandstate.html

Stop blaming the govermnent for everything.
Its just my nature :p

But seriously, the government has an obligation to its Citizens to make sure they have the means to survive, and in my opinion, that means increasing min. wage to a more realistic amount.

[thedeadwalk!]

The least we could do is keep minimum wage up with inflation. I have trouble believing that were it raised it would somehow manifest itself into the horrors people describe.

[Shell]

shut up, you're ****in poor. I eat poor people and their children.

Well that was just pretty damn rude....

[Shell]

I find it terribly amusing that someone would blame the government for minimum wage being what it is. Sure, they set it based on inflation and living standards, but most if not ALL min wage jobs are last resort for uneducated dead end people or students.

Min wage jobs are stepping stones. That's it. If you rely on a minimum wage job to take you through life, especially in a land full of opportunity like America, you've failed terribly.

I know it's harsh, but it's also true. The last time I worked a minimum wage job, was when I was a teenager.


123

[A Spoonful Supreme]

man, spoiled we are today, can you imagine that during the birth of industrial america there was no concept of minimum wage? and companies went untaxed?

[DBoons Ghost]

man, spoiled we are today, can you imagine that during the birth of industrial america there was no concept of minimum wage? and companies went untaxed?

Hah.. yeah but those were different times. People cared about each other, and everybody pulled their own weight best they could. No one relied on anyone but themselves.

Now? Helpless. Family values crumbled apart and no one to this day has done anything to make that part better. It's a massive cause of poverty, especially with all the dead end dads that leave full families behind them for greener, younger pastures.

It's also a great deal to do with all the teenage moms raising children with no clue. They expect to raise a family while being a waitress and it makes no sense. Abortion should be mandatory for teenage moms, either that or some kind of domestic training and licensing for incapable idiots who want to bring a human being into this world because they are so cute and cuddly. But they grow up.

Meh.. I could rant about this all day. This is one of those subjects that is pretty far from cut and dry. Cause and effect being what it is, with regards to the workforce versus population versus population control. The USA stil puts out the 3rd largest workforce in the world per capita, and our population is not nearly the highest. It's almost mind boggling. People would rather sit home and collect welfare then work, and those who want to work refuse to work for what little they get. It's drastically different times then at the base of the industrial revolution.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

I've noticed that things have gone downhill in the structure of family and hard work since the fall of artisan production (one craftsman makes products from his home) and rise of Industry (a bunch of non-artisans operate machinery). The fact that factories were introduced to America changed the fabric of society, the men now went to work to mass produce goods, the kids didn't have to work for the family anymore so we invented adolescance and public schooling, women went from workers to house wifes, etc. Suddenly in America you could support yourself on your own and didn't have an obligation to say family, or mastering your craft and producing the best quality goods. Artisans had reputations in the regions they operated, they actually cared about their work and success, now I think that since we've all turned into worker bees the pride is lost, apathy has set in, and minimum wage.

[Atomic Rain]

We could spend all day dreaming of simpler times, but i personally feel that in todays multinational, moddle management society a minimum wage is a necessary thing.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

I've noticed that things have gone downhill in the structure of family and hard work since the fall of artisan production (one craftsman makes products from his home) and rise of Industry (a bunch of non-artisans operate machinery). The fact that factories were introduced to America changed the fabric of society, the men now went to work to mass produce goods, the kids didn't have to work for the family anymore so we invented adolescance and public schooling, women went from workers to house wifes, etc. Suddenly in America you could support yourself on your own and didn't have an obligation to say family, or mastering your craft and producing the best quality goods. Artisans had reputations in the regions they operated, they actually cared about their work and success, now I think that since we've all turned into worker bees the pride is lost, apathy has set in, and minimum wage.I cannot begin to describe how monumentally stupid you are.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

I cannot begin to describe how monumentally stupid you are.

Do you ever explain yourself or do you just go around to threads acting like you're the ****?

And how the hell did you measure my intelligence based on my subjective opinion about the history of work structure? You're good....

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

yeah, I'm the ****.

Do you actually have any evidence to support your ideas about the joys of pre-industrial production? Or is this just some sort of general, idealized idea that you have developed?

and talking about your "subjective opinion" just proves my point.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

yeah, I'm the ****.

Do you actually have any evidence to support your ideas about the joys of pre-industrial production? Or is this just some sort of general, idealized idea that you have developed?

Joys? I was touching on work ethic and what a job meant to people in pre-industrial America, I did not say it was a joyous happy fun land that everyone has forgotten about. My opinion was that consumerism is the direct cause of minimum wage and/or apathy for jobs.

And no, you're not the ****, I am.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

No, I'm pretty sure lots of people felt apathetic about or actively hated their jobs before industrialisation.

[ihatemybass]

I cannot begin to describe how monumentally stupid you are.
It made sense to me.

Anyway....
What's the purpose of this thread? Discuss Minimum Wage?

[A Spoonful Supreme]

No, I'm pretty sure lots of people felt apathetic about or actively hated their jobs before industrialisation.


Maybe pride is a better word, or sense of purpose.

But you cannot deny that after industrialization the artisan was snuffed out by big business, unskilled workers, wage manipulation, and later, minimum wage.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

But you cannot deny that after industrialization the artisan was snuffed out by big business, unskilled workers, wage manipulation, and later, minimum wage.or, to be more accurate, modern methods of production.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

lol tricky.... there are other methods of production.





That was Tway-ish

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

I don't get it: do you want us to go back to a pre-industrial society?

[A Spoonful Supreme]

nah im just pointing things out, im not suggesting anything

[antiant]

why work? (http://www.whywork.org) some of you may enjoy this, others may not

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

But what conclusion do you take from all your 'pointing out'? And what inspired these marvellous observations, exactly?

[sr800bkBassist]

this is actually what's making it hard for me to find a place to live after highschool.

i want to live in San Francisco, but unfortunately a crappy, tiny little studio apartment is over $1,000 a month. that's a studio apartment.
so i'd have to, on my own, make not only roughly $12,000 per year, but also enough for gas, food, etc. and then college costs big$$$ too! i'd have to make maybe over $20,000 a year just to get by and live in the city i want to live in. is that fair?

[A Spoonful Supreme]

But what conclusion do you take from all your 'pointing out'? And what inspired these marvellous observations, exactly?


I was following up what he started:

Hah.. yeah but those were different times. People cared about each other, and everybody pulled their own weight best they could. No one relied on anyone but themselves.

Now? Helpless. Family values crumbled apart and no one to this day has done anything to make that part better. It's a massive cause of poverty, especially with all the dead end dads that leave full families behind them for greener, younger pastures.

It's also a great deal to do with all the teenage moms raising children with no clue. They expect to raise a family while being a waitress and it makes no sense. Abortion should be mandatory for teenage moms, either that or some kind of domestic training and licensing for incapable idiots who want to bring a human being into this world because they are so cute and cuddly. But they grow up.

Meh.. I could rant about this all day. This is one of those subjects that is pretty far from cut and dry. Cause and effect being what it is, with regards to the workforce versus population versus population control. The USA stil puts out the 3rd largest workforce in the world per capita, and our population is not nearly the highest. It's almost mind boggling. People would rather sit home and collect welfare then work, and those who want to work refuse to work for what little they get. It's drastically different times then at the base of the industrial revolution.

[Atomic Rain]

this is actually what's making it hard for me to find a place to live after highschool.

i want to live in San Francisco, but unfortunately a crappy, tiny little studio apartment is over $1,000 a month. that's a studio apartment.
so i'd have to, on my own, make not only roughly $12,000 per year, but also enough for gas, food, etc. and then college costs big$$$ too! i'd have to make maybe over $20,000 a year just to get by and live in the city i want to live in. is that fair?

I want to live in a 4 bedroomed house in a nice area of York, but a house there would cost me hundreds of thousands of poounds. How unfair is that?


You think that before industrialisation houses were free or something?

Houses cost the most someone's prepared ot pay for them.

[sr800bkBassist]

I want to live in a 4 bedroomed house in a nice area of York, but a house there would cost me hundreds of thousands of poounds. How unfair is that?


You think that before industrialisation houses were free or something?

Houses cost the most someone's prepared ot pay for them.
but see, as far as resources go, i don't even ask for much. just a bed, a microwave, phone, and a fridge. plus a guitar and CD player.

i just like the area because of it's open-mindedness, culture, and beauty. so if i want to live a life off of as few material resources as possible, living a very simple life, i feel i should at least live in a good place, even if my apartment only has a few items in it.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

I want stuff I can't realistically expect to have all the time

[MAthiAS]

this is actually what's making it hard for me to find a place to live after highschool.

i want to live in San Francisco, but unfortunately a crappy, tiny little studio apartment is over $1,000 a month. that's a studio apartment.
so i'd have to, on my own, make not only roughly $12,000 per year, but also enough for gas, food, etc. and then college costs big$$$ too! i'd have to make maybe over $20,000 a year just to get by and live in the city i want to live in. is that fair?
Well you could live on campus, apply for a scholarship, start saving now, find a roommate, etc.

[sr800bkBassist]

Well you could live on campus, apply for a scholarship, start saving now, find a roommate, etc.
scholarship is out of the question, i play no sports and have not taken any advanced classes or gotten high marks. living on campus is ridiculously expensive (especially for an art school, which is what i'm shooting for), finding a roomate is hard for me, being that most of my good friends either don't plan on moving there, or plan on moving there but already have a roomate situation worked out. saving now could work, but that still means saving enough within 1 year to support myself for however long i live there.

I want stuff I can't realistically expect to have all the time
if that was directed at me, wanting to live in one place at the expense of ridding myself of almost ALL material, then not only is it realistic, but it should be simple. after all, i'm denying myself of almost all material possessions, trying to live without spending hardly any money on unneeded things, and the neccessities still weigh me down.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

Excuse my ignorance but where is there currently deflation? And did the US ever go through it?

There was a one-month deflation in Canada in the last 2-3 years, and projected over a year it would have meant 0.5% deflation in the currency. It almost led to an economic crash, but the Bank of Canada (which sets interest rates and so on) compensated by adjusting interest to yield a higher-than-normal inflation rate for the next few months.

I don't know if/when it's happened in the US, but I remember in the months/first couple years after 9/11, when the US was going through a recession, economists were doing everything in their power to avoid deflation. Deflation is basically the best way to make half your country go bankrupt.

[MAthiAS]

scholarship is out of the question, i play no sports and have not taken any advanced classes or gotten high marks. living on campus is ridiculously expensive (especially for an art school, which is what i'm shooting for), finding a roomate is hard for me, being that most of my good friends either don't plan on moving there, or plan on moving there but already have a roomate situation worked out. saving now could work, but that still means saving enough within 1 year to support myself for however long i live there.
That makes me expect Amit to say something like 'get used to squeaking by'.

Well if you start saving now, it won't support you the whole time you're there obviously, but it can help. Get a part time job there and maybe student loan the rest. Also, you should be able to find a roommate there anyway not long after moving.

[Against Miik!]

I hate student loans. I have to take one for $2,500. I really didn't want to. I hate paying for things with money I don't have, which is also why I hate credit cards, but I realize i'll need both at some point.

[griftadan]

actually only about 3% of workers make a flat minimum wage.

raising this will only wage the shelf for all wages, thus resulting in inflation.

either that, or stunted economic growth.

[MAthiAS]

I hate student loans. I have to take one for $2,500. I really didn't want to. I hate paying for things with money I don't have, which is also why I hate credit cards, but I realize i'll need both at some point.
Totally with you there. But its necessary at some point. Least you realize the problem with it...

actually only about #% of workers make a flat minimum wage.

raising this will only wage the shelf for all wages, thus resulting in inflation.

either that, or stunted economic growth.
I'll assume that's a 3?

[griftadan]

Totally with you there. But its necessary at some point. Least you realize the problem with it...


I'll assume that's a 3?

yeah my bad

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

this is actually what's making it hard for me to find a place to live after highschool.

i want to live in San Francisco, but unfortunately a crappy, tiny little studio apartment is over $1,000 a month. that's a studio apartment.
so i'd have to, on my own, make not only roughly $12,000 per year, but also enough for gas, food, etc. and then college costs big$$$ too! i'd have to make maybe over $20,000 a year just to get by and live in the city i want to live in. is that fair?


$20,000 a year isn't that much if you work full time. Or, just live outside the city and commute

[Smokey D]

The argument against a minimum wage because of inflation, while temptingly simple, is not the final answer. It is possible for economists to determine what is the principle source of inflation in an economy (ie, it could just as well be oil prices as wage increases), and for them them to predict the level of inflation incurred by setting a price floor. In a growing economy, the inflation caused by a minimum wage is often minimal when compared to other factors of production coming under increased demand, and the additional demand stimulated by more money in the paypacket can offset the hit to supply.

That being said, a minimum wage increase should only be carried out after a ful investigation of the economic circumstances, and not, as is often seen, as part of an emotive gut reaction platform.