Changes to Sputnik over the Summer

[mx]

First to all, thanks to everyone who gave their input on ways to make Sputnik better. I've taken all of them into consideration, and I appreciate it.

Sputnik will be undergoing some major changes this summer, although not all of it will be immediate (especially since I am going on vacation soon). But you can expect to see nearly all of them before the summer ends.

Rather than give a long explanation of the problems associated with the current state of sputnik, you can read the thread 'so traffic is down', where you should find enough explanation.

Without further ado, the changes:

1) Emphasis of the News Section

- Music news is a major part of the site that, based on keyword rankings, gets more traffic than music reviews. It will provide an important draw for new users, as well as provide a valuable resource.

- Music news for each genre will now be linked directly to the genre forums to increase traffic.
- The presence of the news on the front page will be increased.
- The news page will be revamped, quite possibly to have featured news and pictures.
- Possibly some type of alert or email if one of your favorite bands has news

2) Introduction of Reviewer Rankings

Reviewer classes will be chosen manually, by the moderators, based on the quality of the writing. The rank or class of the reviewer will appear at the top of the review. The idea is to create a standard of professionalism that any new visitor can appreciate. As one person said, 'no one wants to read a review by a 15-year old kid'. I don't think that's true, but it's important that Sputnik strives to increase its review quality. Hopefully people will want to increase their rank, not based on positive or negative votes, but by increasing the quality of their reviews and improving their weaknesses.

The levels:

1) Staff Reviewers

Staff reviewers will be, quite simply, the best writers on sputnik. They are expected to create reviews of professional quality, and review albums from a variety of different genres. They will also, hopefully, review a lot of current releases. All staff writers will be listed on the 'staff' page. Currently shooting for about 10 of these, but it will grow.

2) Approved Reviewers

Approved reviewers are members who have excellent review quality, and are trusted by the site for their objectivity. One rank below staff writers, some of these will eventually become staff writers themselves. This rank might apply to 50% of those currently reviewing on sputnik.

3) Regular Reviewers

Still qualified to have their reviews on sputnik, but could use improvement.

4) Newbie Reviewers

3 or less reviews, not enough to gain a full opinion. All new reviews will be approved by moderators by this class.

5) Beginner Reviewers

These reviews will not appear on the site, as the minimum level of review quality for acceptance will be increased. I'll get to how we accomodate this type of review in the next section.

Note: The reviewer rankings will be put into the automatic tagging formula making one review appear first.

3) Dual Review System

Sputnik can simultaneously be a quality review site and a community review site. The method:

- Eliminate the differences between blurbs and reviews. Reviews can be short and still be professional. We're not talking Allmusic.com's reviews, which are little more than paragraphs, and there will be a minimum limit, but reviews of blurb length will now be accepted as true reviews. Conciseness isn't always a bad idea.

- Instead of blurbs, the new dual structure will be reviews and sounding off.

Reviews

Same current structure as before, just that the former blurbs will have the same format.

Sounding Off

The most major change to the site. Often, comments on albums fall into two areas: talking about the review, or ignoring the review and stating one's opinion on the album. Additionally, many blurbs are submitted (and rejected) that are only a few lines, stating whether the person liked or disliked the album, and why.

Why not make this a valid part of the site? A link from each and every album (including those without a review) will allow members to sound off on an album in isolation. There will be no standard here greater than the forums, and everyone can participate. This allows people who don't want to write reviews to still get their opinion on the album across.

Check this out for an example, (and you'll see it across the web)

http://www.epinions.com/musc_mu-136190/display_~reviews

Rateyourmusic does a similar thing. I think this is a very valid way to allow people to participate without always rejecting subpar reviews. In other words, there is a dual structure to the site: quality, long and in depth reviews, and community opinion on those same albums. If you want to write reviews, you can. If you want to rate albums and write 3 sentences about every album in your collection, you can as well. It will appeal to different people.

4. Misc Changes

- A rewriting of the FAQ and submission guidelines
- Fix of a lot of bugs
- Add Hip-Hop as a main genre, add country as a subgenre of pop
- Name another mod
- Formalize the newsletter
- Allow users to customize what goes in their profile/main page to some extent
- Muses might possibly get axed
- Addition of more mp3 previews
- Instead of showing the top 10 albums by year overall, instead that spot in the main page can rotate between main genres. One refresh it might be alt/indie, the next punk, the next metal... currently the list is biased.
- Show top contributors to each genre on the bottom of the page
- Emphasize the genre differences, and perhaps have specific features for each
- Make a page where users can request a staff review

and more


As you can see, that's a lot of work. Please be patient. I think it will make sputnik a better site in the end.

[Hep Kat]

I think it will make sputnik a better site in the end.

And I most certainly agree. Thanks for taking all of this into consideration :)

[Storm In A Teacup]

I <3 you MX for #1 as well as everything else. :)

[JohnXDoe]

I appreciate the Sounding Off/Duel Review idea. It makes the common user opinion more valid I think, and encourages people to consider and comment more carefully as well as getting more people involved and giving them a voice. Good deal...

[Cravinov13]

sounds promising, I can't wait!

[RandyfromPennywise]

Yeah sounds like it should be good. Good luck with implementing it, hope all runs smoothly.

[morrissey]

I'm so happy about every single one of these changes, I think you've got it down pat. The only minor thing I'd suggest is putting country in other, that way artists like Johnny Cash, George Strait and Willie Nelson can go in there. If you put it under pop, that seems to limit it to pop-country performers like Shania Twain and Faith Hill.

[Dave de Sylvia]

add country as a subgenre of pop
Surely 'Other' makes more sense? Blues and folk should be moved too, I think.

[morrissey]

Slowpoke. But yes, blues and folk need to be moved to other. And while we're at it, at least open up discussion on whether to add "world" as a subgenre. We'd have to get some reviews first, but it is a subgenre we should look to add in the future.

[masada]

and change ska to ska-punk.

[morrissey]

After seeing that link to the Frances the Mute wikipedia page, we should do that with every review. It will take a lot of time, but that's a huge market right there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_the_Mute
(right hand column under "Professional Reviews")

[Dave de Sylvia]

I've linked a handful of my better reviews on wikipedia, but I wouldn't do it for anyone else's, or at least without their permission. I wouldn't like to see just any sputnik review linked there, simply because many aren't of requisite quality.

[Storm In A Teacup]

I linked my "Stadium Arcadium" review on Wiki, but that's the only time I've ever done it.

[tom79]

These changes sound great. Muses are good, but if not enough people are doing them, or interested in them, it might be better to go..
It would be good if they stay, but either way its fine.

[Storm In A Teacup]

I'm not very excited about muses either to be honest and we know that they can also start pointless, trivial fights (icaughtfire444's "muse").

[The Jungler]

All your ideas are great, you rule mx.
- Muses might possibly get axed
This was the only thing that kind of confused me. Does this mean all current blurbs will be deleted?

[NEDM]

I am really excited for the upcoming changes MX. It's like anticipating a video game :p

[Iluvatar]

I agree with pretty much everything, assuming the number rankings will be gone completely. The wiki thing is a fairly grand idea, and I'm sure the better reviews here should surely be linked.

[Phaedra]

How about instead of axing muses, we axe them, but make a weekly staff write up. Like allmusic's Whole Note.

[Storm In A Teacup]

Liberi's idea is sweetness.

[JohnXDoe]

Liberi's idea is sweetness.

Who the hell is this Liberi character. :confused:

But yeah, write ups as suggested by that n00b with the funny name sounds good. I've been wanting to do a misty-eyed Springsteen one but I become too overwhelmed by emotion. :(

[JohnXDoe]

^Yeah, I was joking in my usual feeble manner. Oh, and Speaking of Springsteen, I know you're a fan. AOL Music has an "18 Songs In 18 Nights" special right now with a full song clip from the previous nights gig chosen by Bruce himself. Just google "Springsteen AOL". It's really good stuff. I'm so impressed with what he is doing right now. It's just amazing....I'm on my way to check it out myself.

Recommended viewing:
Jesse James
How Can A Poor Man Stand Such Times And Live
Eyes On The Prize
'O Mary, Don't You Weep
My Oklahoma Home
Jacob's Ladder
We Shall Overcome...

...and pretty much all the rest, too....

[masada]

hi med

[Dave de Sylvia]

How about instead of axing muses, we axe them
God, you're awesome at this.

p.s. I agree

[morrissey]

This Phaedra newbie is an internet pro. :cool:

Also that is a great idea.

[Hep Kat]

God, you're awesome at this.

p.s. I agree

I rofl'd at that.


Anyways, I just noticed that post of his. Seems like a fantastic idea.




Probably overlooked it before cause he's such a n00b now :p

[niobium]

I agree with everything except the integration of blurbs and reviews. I think blurring the line will encourage people to not write quality reviews on an album. Another reason (it's been brought up before) is that there will be too many reviews with one album, like MOP numbers, and the Other genre will get ignored with that addition.

Other than that little complaint, I agree with everything you're doing. I can't wait for the reviewer rankings and the importance of news. A little add on thing to the news: if the news is going to be that much of a focus, try to make more than eight or so on the headline. Thanks for making Sputnik a place I visit... hourly.

[mx]

People won't be encouraged to stop writing quality reviews, since there is the ranking system. And as I said, quantity doesn't mean quality.

[Hep Kat]

People won't be encouraged to stop writing quality reviews, since there is the ranking system. And as I said, quantity doesn't mean quality.

Agreed. Personally, I think it's a great idea. It takes the pressure off of people to have to ramble on incessantly over an album, for fear that their review might be too short to be accepted. It'll make the reviews on the whole less smoke and mirrors, and more meat and potatoes.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Well technically people won't be discouraged from writing quality reviews because only retards would be.

[mx]

more meat and potatoes.

Loving the food analogies

[Hep Kat]

Loving the food analogies

Haha, that reminds me that I need to eat :-/


I'm hoping that storm of "hi"s doesn't reach here (you may want to check into that, oh esteemed admin).

[pulseczar]

Sound goods, mx. Hopefully I make Approved Reviewers, or else I won't know what to do with myself :upset:

[Hep Kat]

^^^
God, you'll make staff with the way you write :thumb:

[Iluvatar]

^ Look whose talking Mr. "I'm going to have 50 reviews in June" -_- Making us all look bad.

[Hep Kat]

Hahaha, most of you all write much better than I do. I just want to contribute as much as I possibly can :)

[niobium]

So I have a question about the reviewer staff. Are new reviews coming in going to be counted along with existing reviews already in place? Or just new reviews? I have five reviews to my good name, but I don't review that often.

[mx]

Well, we want active people. But it's not just new reviews

[Hep Kat]

So I have a question about the reviewer staff. Are new reviews coming in going to be counted along with existing reviews already in place? Or just new reviews? I have five reviews to my good name, but I don't review that often.

I would assume they would. You would fall into a class that wouldn't require approval or anything, so you should be fine.


Unless, of course, mx says otherwise.

[Surtr]

:thumb:

Good ideas, I agree with them all.

["Freshly Baked"]

If muses are gone, I don't think they'll be missed.

Sounds promising. The ratings things scares me, i'm worried about what rating i'd get, but then again, it's also good, because It makes me want to spend more time on my reviews.

[DFelon204409]

I don't know how I feel about the rotating Top Albums of 2006 by genre. I guess that's to make it so it's not always all metal on the front page, but can't you just click on a genre section and get the same information? I'd like to see the front page have the overall stats or at least an option to see the top overall albums of the year.

[Iluvatar]

Can I ask how blurbs are going to be integrated into full reviews? I know Dan mentioned it, but are they just going to suddenly become full reviews or what?

[Iai]

2) Introduction of Reviewer Rankings

Sounding Off

- Add Hip-Hop as a main genre, add country as a subgenre of pop
- Allow users to customize what goes in their profile/main page to some extent
- Instead of showing the top 10 albums by year overall, instead that spot in the main page can rotate between main genres. One refresh it might be alt/indie, the next punk, the next metal... currently the list is biased.
- Show top contributors to each genre on the bottom of the page
- Make a page where users can request a staff review
These are all awesome suggestions, or whatever the word is I'm looking for.

Just a note on muses being axed - I, for one, haven't really used the Muse section yet because of time restraints more than anything else (and that's also why I'm not reviewing as much). But hopefully that's not going to be an issue so much from now on, and since that's the one area of the site that really needs a kick, I'll probably ocus on it more than I ordinarily would. I think the muse section is fantastic as a concept, I really do, and I think all it needs is for 2 or maybe 3 of the big writers to start using it for it to pick up. The only issue, really, is people ignoring it, perhaps because they feel it's something of a thankless task. Maybe a voting system could be introduced to encourage participation?

I have a muse halfway done on why the yearly charts are dominated by metal anyways.

Oh, and about rotating the genre for the yearly charts. How about having user-created lists in that section? Slightly randomized, but also only selected from a pool of lists approved by the moderating staff, obviously. It'll add more interest to the front-page, I feel. Add a link to the comment section for the list and the user's profile (maybe 'See more lists by Iluvatar' or something) and it'll be another way for people to get into the site immediately. Face it - music lovers love nothing more than making lists.

[Oddsen]

I like the idea of muses, but it's true they don't get enough attention and not alot are being written so i wouldnt mind them being axed out

Also, i like the last idea Iai brought up.

[Storm In A Teacup]

I'm really into the idea of combining blurbs into reviews. I personally think that at times blurbs are just better.

[Hep Kat]

I'm really into the idea of combining blurbs into reviews. I personally think that at times blurbs are just better.

You can still write reviews of blurb length. Only they'll be reviews. Just make sure they're quality, information-laden stuff, and you'll be fine.

[Storm In A Teacup]

Tried that once. Everyone jumped on me.

[Hep Kat]

Tried that once. Everyone jumped on me.

The system is going to work differently now. You won't have to worry about that. I mean, you'll need to make them longer than one paragraph (as mx stated), but they won't need to be three volume epics all the time.

["Freshly Baked"]

Also, good work on making rap a mojor category.

It's getting bigger everyday (almost singlehandedly by Hep Kat)

Even tho the first week will be filled with "Eh, rap is cRap" "Eh, Reatards Attempting Poetry" Posts, but like most fads on mx, they either fade away or get banned.

[JohnXDoe]

Also, good work on making rap a mojor category. It's getting bigger everyday (almost singlehandedly by Hep Kat)
Hep Kat is a poor black kid from Compton

[Oddsen]

well, you got to get everyone to realize that you can write reviews blurb length. The community forums is one way, but only really regulars like you guys visit these forums.

[Hep Kat]

Hep Kat is a poor black kid from Compton

Strait up 'g. Y'all dunno how we roll 'round here. I'ma murk you wit my crew.



Nah, I just really like rap, and I want to bolster that whole section. Hip-hop currently is the king of the airwaves, so it deserves to be prominent on Sputnik.


edit: Thanks for the shout-out, Flowbee. I always did like your user name :cool:

[Shadows]

I love this reviewer ranking idea.

[morrissey]

These are all awesome suggestions, or whatever the word is I'm looking for.

Just a note on muses being axed - I, for one, haven't really used the Muse section yet because of time restraints more than anything else (and that's also why I'm not reviewing as much). But hopefully that's not going to be an issue so much from now on, and since that's the one area of the site that really needs a kick, I'll probably ocus on it more than I ordinarily would. I think the muse section is fantastic as a concept, I really do, and I think all it needs is for 2 or maybe 3 of the big writers to start using it for it to pick up. The only issue, really, is people ignoring it, perhaps because they feel it's something of a thankless task. Maybe a voting system could be introduced to encourage participation?

I have a muse halfway done on why the yearly charts are dominated by metal anyways.

Oh, and about rotating the genre for the yearly charts. How about having user-created lists in that section? Slightly randomized, but also only selected from a pool of lists approved by the moderating staff, obviously. It'll add more interest to the front-page, I feel. Add a link to the comment section for the list and the user's profile (maybe 'See more lists by Iluvatar' or something) and it'll be another way for people to get into the site immediately. Face it - music lovers love nothing more than making lists.
I agree with everything said here. Muses shouldn't go, I think articles are a pretty important part of any site. We just need to get a handful of "staff writers" turning out articles with some regularity. We've been talking about doing this basically since the feature was introduced, but it's never happened. We can do it as a weekly "whole note" thing like AMG does, as Liberi mentioned. Have four writers, each one submits 1 muse a month. Or, if demand increases, there can be more writers and the article changes every 3-4 days. And this muse needs to be more prominent, like back when muses were first introduced, with a picture and all. We can make that part of the "professional" angle of the site... any other music ramblings can be confined to journals, I guess.

And the list rotation is a fantastic idea.

[DFelon204409]

Ya, about the weekly or monthly muse options, I think it'd be cool to have a sputnik newsletter. I get a bunch of random newsletters that keep me in touch with certain sites I have almost forgotten about. The weekly epitaph records one has semi-political articles, general blabbering, and news about stuff from some bands. Sputnik could easily put out a newsletter every week with the top new reviews of each week, the top articles, and various news items. That way members who have strayed away from the site, or don't like having a community and just want to be informed of music happenings every so often can have a reason to enjoy the site as well.

[Hep Kat]

We have a newsletter DFel:

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471858

[DFelon204409]

We have a newsletter DFel:

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471858

Interesting. I'm signing up now. Is there some kind of cool html layout for it or is it just a bunch of links?

EDIT: There should be a prompt to join the newsletter on the sputnik frontpage and an easy form one can fill out.

[Hep Kat]

I haven't recieved one yet (or if I have, I haven't read it), so I wouldn't know.

[morrissey]

I can email you both a copy of last month's version. The upcoming one for July 1st is still in the works.

[morrissey]

Interesting. I'm signing up now. Is there some kind of cool html layout for it or is it just a bunch of links?

EDIT: There should be a prompt to join the newsletter on the sputnik frontpage and an easy form one can fill out.
It would be really cool to do get this, so I'm bumping for mx.

The newsletter is html but it's still pretty rudimentary. Things will improve in the future.

[Jom]

I lost power all day because of some beloved T-storms.

I just wanted to say good job on fixing up the Sound Off vs. Comment thingee. What I mean is, there's an explanation below the input box where it says, "This is for commenting on the review, use the Sound Off feature if you want to leave your opinion on the album [sic]." I was going to ask how you were planning on differentiating them (in the sense that the users would understand it), and you did just that - plus, kudos to Moz for having the Sound Off link up at the top.

So, yeah, buen trabajo :)

[Hep Kat]

I can email you both a copy of last month's version. The upcoming one for July 1st is still in the works.

I would appreciate that. My email is right in the beginning of that thread, and is in my profile :)

[Pete]

Is there any way to apply to being a staff/approved reviewer, or is it based on your previous reviews? If so/if not, please consider that the last three reviews are the only ones written specifically for sputnik and the quality of my older reviews may lack a bit. Although I still think they're among the better on Sputnik (quite objectively :p ).

[DFelon204409]

Is there any way to apply to being a staff/approved reviewer, or is it based on your previous reviews? If so/if not, please consider that the last three reviews are the only ones written specifically for sputnik and the quality of my older reviews may lack a bit. Although I still think they're among the better on Sputnik (quite objectively :p ).

12345...n

[Skyler]

Sounds like a lot of good improvements are on the way. Keep up the good work. :)

[Phaedra]

It would be really cool to do get this, so I'm bumping for mx.
I've been suggesting it for ages, heck it was supposed to be the fuel behind the newsletter when I first suggested the idea. :-/

[nutty_bar]

So, let me see if I get this. None of our reviews show up until we write 4 and then they all show up?

[Dave de Sylvia]

So, let me see if I get this. None of our reviews show up until we write 4 and then they all show up?
No?

Your first review has to be approved by a mod. Once it's been approved your review will show up the next time the front page is updated.

[Hep Kat]

No?

Your first review has to be approved by a mod. Once it's been approved your review will show up the next time the front page is updated.

I think he's confused by this:

4) Newbie Reviewers

3 or less reviews, not enough to gain a full opinion. All new reviews will be approved by moderators by this class.

5) Beginner Reviewers

These reviews will not appear on the site, as the minimum level of review quality for acceptance will be increased.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Ahh, I get it. No, that just means the first three reviews will have to be approved individually and they'll show up as they're approved.

[DFelon204409]

The being able to organize by My Reviews is cool but we need to be able to see who made the most recent post on our reviews.

[nutty_bar]

That was what I was confused by, HepKat. Thanks for the help. I have a couple CD's I'm getting soon and neither of them are on the site, so I will probably start my reviewing shortly after I get them. It is sort of pointless writing reviews for bands people have never heard of, but I will write one for Ben Kweller since I think a reasonable amount of people on here would know him.

[DFelon204409]

That was what I was confused by, HepKat. Thanks for the help. I have a couple CD's I'm getting soon and neither of them are on the site, so I will probably start my reviewing shortly after I get them. It is sort of pointless writing reviews for bands people have never heard of, but I will write one for Ben Kweller since I think a reasonable amount of people on here would know him.

When I first started writing reviews, very few people knew about HORSE the band, Trophy Scars, and Circle Takes the Square, but those reviews gave them attention online and now CTTS is one of the most respected bands on the forums. You can sway opinions with reviews man. They have power.

[Zesty Mordant]

The being able to organize by My Reviews is cool but we need to be able to see who made the most recent post on our reviews.

123

I found that little thing was really useful. If it was removed due to the My Profile section being too cluttered, than I would recommend getting rid of the timeline.

[The Jungler]

123

I found that little thing was really useful. If it was removed due to the My Profile section being too cluttered, than I would recommend getting rid of the timeline.I liked it too.

I think if you click My Profile from another page in your profile (i.e Album Ratings, Favorite Bands) you can still view it.

[The Door Mouse]

wat will be the subgenres for hip hop

[Hep Kat]

wat will be the subgenres for hip hop

We actually haven't given that much (if any) thought, at least to my knowledge. So, anyone have any ideas?

[Dave de Sylvia]

"Good rap" and "50 Cent" will be the two subgenres.

[Hep Kat]

"Good rap" and "50 Cent" will be the two subgenres.

:lol:


Good idea.


edit: Seriously, though. I'm thinking stuff like gangsta, crunk, reggaeton, g-funk, pop-rap...stuff along those lines.

[The Jungler]

Gangsta, Crunk, Mainstream, Foreign, Indie and Insturmental...how about that?

[masada]

Grime.

[Hep Kat]

Gansta, Crunk, Mainstream, Foreign, Indie and Insturmental...how about that?

Hmm...yeah, that works :thumb:


And Grime.


edit: beaten

[The Jungler]

Grime.I figured that would go under foreign, but OK.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I'll ban anyone who attempts to justify a reggaeton genre.

[masada]

What is reggaeton anyway?

[mynameischan]

Reggae that weights 2,000 pounds.

/walks away

[Te Karanga]

"Good rap" and "50 Cent" will be the two subgenres.
Well if you've got good and great, won't you want bad as well?

[Give me Beer]

What is reggaeton anyway?

For reggaeton see artists as:

Daddy Yankee
Wisin Y Yandel
Tego Calderon
Don Omar
Calle 13, El Residente
Mach & Daddy
Kriz Y Angel
...

It's huge in Latin America. And most of the artists are from Puerto Rico...

If you care to listen to it:

http://www.launch.com

Type in Wisin Y Yandel and click any song. They're all pretty much the same anyway.

The only good reggaeton artist is Calle 13, El Residente.

[masada]

Ah okay, I've heard reggaeton then.

Daddy Yankee blows.

[DFelon204409]

Hey team, I posted these around the forum in various threads and I thought I'd consolidate them a bit because none of them have been implemented.

-Having the possibility of multiple arists for the same CD instead of "Artist 1 / Arist 2," (e.g. NOFX/Rancid Split is attributed to both NOFX and Rancid instead of a new weird artist that nobody will search for)

-There should be a prompt to join the sputnik newsletter on the front page. This could be tied in with the ability to request a staff review.

-More subgenres, but ones that don't necessarily come as main ones in the pull down menus. For example I think the hip hop section definitely needs a mainstream rap tag, because none of that stuff is actually hip hop. It's ever so distantly connected.

[Dave de Sylvia]

-Having the possibility of multiple arists for the same CD instead of "Artist 1 / Arist 2," (e.g. NOFX/Rancid Split is attributed to both NOFX and Rancid instead of a new weird artist that nobody will search for)
It's a possibility, but it'd probably be more trouble to code than it'd be worth.

-There should be a prompt to join the sputnik newsletter on the front page. This could be tied in with the ability to request a staff review.
He suggested this, or something like it, himself but I haven't heard any follow up on it yet.

-More subgenres, but ones that don't necessarily come as main ones in the pull down menus. For example I think the hip hop section definitely needs a mainstream rap tag, because none of that stuff is actually hip hop. It's ever so distantly connected.
It seems pretty pointless. When hip hop is added as a main genre, I'm sure pop rap will be a subgenre. As for the "not actually being hip hop", I don't know what you mean but if you want to argue the intricacies of hip hop you can follow it up in the community thread or make a new one.

["Freshly Baked"]

Raggaeton has as much credibility as Horrorcore (i.e. little to none at all)

[DFelon204409]

If you guys are actually going to make crunk a subgenre, you have to make hyphy one too. Then you realize you're in too deep.

The subgenres should be Instrumental/Sampled, Mainstream Rap, Trip Hop, and maybe Gangsta

[Sepstrup]

A band like Blackalicious isn't instrumental, mainstream, trip hop or gangsta. Not sure what to put them in, though.

[Te Karanga]

If you guys are actually going to make crunk a subgenre, you have to make hyphy one too. Then you realize you're in too deep.

The subgenres should be Instrumental/Sampled, Mainstream Rap, Trip Hop, and maybe Gangsta
Ew no, having those as subgenres would be stupid.

Instrumental/Sampled would be largely empty.

Trip-Hop should not be associated with Rap, but rather with Electronica. The sound that many people think of as "Trip-Hop" is far more aligned to Electronic music than Rap. Trip-Hop borrows from Rap, it doesn't stem from it.

Most mainstream rap is either a biproduct of the gangsta rap of the 90s, or Hip-Hop styled rap. It'd get very messy sorting artists with those 4 sub-genres.

[DFelon204409]

Ew no, having those as subgenres would be stupid.

Instrumental/Sampled would be largely empty.

Trip-Hop should not be associated with Rap, but rather with Electronica. The sound that many people think of as "Trip-Hop" is far more aligned to Electronic music than Rap. Trip-Hop borrows from Rap, it doesn't stem from it.

Most mainstream rap is either a biproduct of the gangsta rap of the 90s, or Hip-Hop styled rap. It'd get very messy sorting artists with those 4 sub-genres.

Instrumental, sampled has Prefuse73, RJD2, DJ Shadow, and other bands that are very popular here.

Man you're retarded if you think trip hop is closer to electronica.

I don't care about the last one.

[Dave de Sylvia]

It's funny because electronica is what he listens to most, so he probably has a better idea than you, and also the fact that he's completely right.

[morrissey]

It's funny because electronica is what he listens to most, so he probably has a better idea than you, and also the fact that he's completely right.
^^^ This.

[Skyler]

Man you're retarded if you think trip hop is closer to electronica.

What the hell are you talking about? Trip hop IS electronic music. It only borrows elements from hip-hop, among other things like jazz and other forms of electronic music.

[Iluvatar]

Whens the new F.A.Q going to be done, or has that already been completed?

Wheres the full reviewer rankings?

Where the "top contributors for each genre" uh...thing?

Those are the features I was waiting for that haven't been implemented to my knowledge. I only post this, seeing as the attention is soon going to be shifting to the lessons site again.

[DFelon204409]

What the hell are you talking about? Trip hop IS electronic music. It only borrows elements from hip-hop, among other things like jazz and other forms of electronic music.

Most trip hop I've heard has an instrumental base, which seems to undermine it being considered more electronica than not. I'm sure you know more about electronica as a whole but this subgenre is very different.

[Jom]

ITT: People admit that they aren't elitist about everything everrrrr and are indeed fallible in some areas of their supposed concentration of expertise

[DFelon204409]

What the hell does ITT mean?

[Te Karanga]

Most trip hop I've heard has an instrumental base, which seems to undermine it being considered more electronica than not. I'm sure you know more about electronica as a whole but this subgenre is very different.
Not really. It certainly is a more 'organic' strand of electronic music, but the sound and melodies are very much electronic. It isn't so much that it is close to electronic music, but rather so far from rap.

If you listen to key bands of the genre like Tricky, Massive Attack, Portishead etc, they all align far closer to electronic music than to rap.
What the hell does ITT mean?
In this thread.

[Shadows]

ITT: People admit that they aren't elitist about everything everrrrr and are indeed fallible in some areas of their supposed concentration of expertise
...

If trip hop was somehow metal related I'd try to prove that I was all-knowing in at least one genre, but my expertise (or lack thereof) is powerless here. :p

[Dave de Sylvia]

Most trip hop I've heard has an instrumental base, which seems to undermine it being considered more electronica than not.
It diversified, but it's still based in electronic or seeks to emulate or partially emulate electronic music.

[RandyfromPennywise]

Can someone explain what the "Objectivity" percentage is?

[Cygnus Inter Anates]

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485868

That was hard.

[RandyfromPennywise]

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485868

That was hard.
Apologies, I imagined it would be in this thread, should have looked down the page first I guess. Thanks by the way.

[JohnXDoe]

hey guys stop being so brainy about popular music :-\

[Skyler]

Trip-hop isn't exactly up there on the list of popular music.

[JohnXDoe]

ok. then stop being so brainy about unpopular music :-\