View Full Version : So this guy made flammable water
Bluesiestman
06-18-2006, 10:43 PM
If there has already been a thread about this, excuse me. Apparently this fellow David Klein has developed a 'new form of water' he calls HHO gas, to use as a welding fuel and apparently to run his car on. The story has been getting around local news outlets. I'm skeptical, but hopeful.
his patent number is 20060075683 . go there and search for it. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html
http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=4972009&nav=2FH5
texas news outlet with the basic story.
CNN video. http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/tech/2006/05/23/patrick.fl.h2o.car.wtvt
If anyone can find serious scientific information about this, post it.
BassRevelation1029
06-18-2006, 10:46 PM
lol, ive seen this everywhere now. I originally saw it in the science forum that i frequent. Most of the posters thought it was complete bs.
Spoonful of Shame
06-18-2006, 11:09 PM
It certainly sounds interesting
Ugoff
06-18-2006, 11:16 PM
This is the first time I've heard about it. That's pretty awesome and I hope this isn't just some hoax.
Bluesiestman
06-18-2006, 11:18 PM
Sadly the more I look into it the more it sounds like a hoax. But, he applied for a patent, so you'd think if hes serious enough to apply for a patent there must be something behind it. Hopefully in a few weeks scientific studies will come out, or this will be proved to be a hoax.
i've heard about it before, its a shame that oil companies are apprently in a similar league but they'd rather pump the world dry before they release their inventions
Bluesiestman
06-18-2006, 11:27 PM
The same way planned obsolence is built into cars and Windows, so you have to buy a new one every few years. You know if some technology comes up that would possibly cut off the livley hood of the oil companies, they would do everything they could to try and stifle it.
not to sound like a crazy conspiracy person, but still.
yea i know, but purposely using the worlds oil is worse than other thinks, at least those can be recycled
Letto
06-18-2006, 11:39 PM
Water can be made flammable if you electrolysize (search electrolysis) it into H2 (think Hindenburg) and O. It's nothing new, and it's one of the ideas behind getting fuel for hydrogen cars. It's been known about for hundreds of years.
TojesDolan
06-19-2006, 12:24 AM
Eh I remind you don't get the molecules but the... uh H+ and O2- thing.... crap I forgot what those are.
But I don't think it's possible with such a simplistic equation.
EDIT: ions. YOu get ions not molecules.
Letto
06-19-2006, 12:27 AM
The equation is 2H20 (with application of energy) -> 2H2 + O2. You don't get ions because water only has covalent bonds, not ionic bonds.
Edit: Well my explanation was overly simplistic. Just look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
Against Miik!
06-19-2006, 01:03 AM
I hate chemistry. Not becoming a doctor.
eugh, so glad i dropped chemistry
although this sort of scientific development is pretty promising
Smokey D
06-19-2006, 05:31 AM
The equation is 2H20 (with application of energy) -> 2H2 + O2. You don't get ions because water only has covalent bonds, not ionic bonds.
Edit: Well my explanation was overly simplistic. Just look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
That's separating a flammable element out of water, not making water itself flammable.
Apparatus and method for the conversion of water into a new gaseous and combustible form and the combustible gas formed thereby
Abstract
An electrolyzer which decomposes distilled water into a new fuel composed of hydrogen, oxygen and their molecular and magnecular bonds, called HHO. The electrolyzer can be used to provide the new combustible gas as an additive to combustion engine fuels or in flame or other generating equipment such as torches and welders. The new combustible gas is comprised of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time, and wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.
Looks to be similar to the process Letto described, at least.
Smokey D
06-19-2006, 05:46 AM
Well, that's most definitely not a new invention; nor is it 'flammable water' any more than oxygen is 'breathable water'.
Don't tell me, tell the patents office.
they shouldnt be allowed to patent that, in the same why a company shouldn't be allowed to patent a cure for cancer
Letto
06-19-2006, 10:34 AM
That's separating a flammable element out of water, not making water itself flammable.
No ****. It's the only way somebody could twist words to claim they had flammable water though (if that's even the term used in the patent and not just the OP's term).
PerpetualBurn
06-19-2006, 11:09 AM
they shouldnt be allowed to patent that, in the same why a company shouldn't be allowed to patent a cure for cancer
Medical patents only last a certain period of time. And seeing as the cost to a company to develop any single drug (never mind the expense of those that fail in trials to cover as well) can cost around £200million, a company should have a patent for a time so that they can reimburse themselves. And the profit encourages companies to make further cures.
Bluesiestman
06-19-2006, 05:08 PM
FYI, flammable water was a term I coined. The fellow whos making this isn't calling in flammable water, I just used it cause it made a good thread title. He call is Aquygen or HHO, which is the same chemical equation for water. like someone else said, HHO = H20 = water.
And i believe he's patenting the method of electrolisis (sp?), his little welding device, and maybe the name aquygen.
Atomic Rain
06-19-2006, 05:11 PM
So you really meant
"Guy makes water flammable"
PerpetualBurn
06-19-2006, 05:28 PM
How is HHO arranged that it is different to water?
Atomic Rain
06-19-2006, 05:34 PM
How is HHO arranged that it is different to water?
that implies H-H-O, which i would think would be pretty unstable and hence maybe they think it's flamable.
A method for making H-H-O would be ok to patent.
PerpetualBurn
06-19-2006, 05:39 PM
That's what I was thinking, but I don't really think that would work. And if it would, I'll be it would be very inefficient to synthesise. I also can't see it being better in terms of energy conservation and yield than burning pure H2.
Finally, the comment on the articles in the first post make it sound like crackpot bull. This sort of thing crops up now and again. We'll see.
SubtleDagger
06-19-2006, 05:54 PM
If you think the patents office is a reliable source of scientific integrity, I could post a few thousand patents that will change your mind.
The same method has been used for ages in submarines to create oxygen from sea water... Another end of the electrolyzer will create O2 and the other end will create H2, let the H2 back in water and store the O2... voila, unlimited oxygen reserves for nuclear submarines...
Atomic Rain
06-19-2006, 05:58 PM
If you think the patents office is a reliable source of scientific integrity, I could post a few thousand patents that will change your mind.
But at least they stopped allowing patents of perpetual motion machines.
SubtleDagger
06-19-2006, 06:00 PM
http://tinyurl.com/kb6gp
Tell me what that is please.
PerpetualBurn
06-19-2006, 06:02 PM
Haha, an old guy who lives near my college came in claiming to be an inventor to our chem teacher. He wanted some students to help him draw some sketches (he was old and had arthritis, so couldn't draw) as he described it.
It was a really clever idea in many ways, but it boiled down to perpetual motion and him thinking magnets would keep things moving forever.
Bluesiestman
06-19-2006, 10:06 PM
Yes, but to get a patent, don't you at least have to put your invention or claim thru some scientific tests? Get it evaluated and such? Thats what I'm waiting for, serious scientific inquiry into weather this is full of **** or not.
griftadan
06-19-2006, 10:14 PM
i've heard of it but i don't understand it at all. where is ashman when you need him?
RockAndRoll
06-19-2006, 10:25 PM
He was sucked into a black hole that took offence to his position.
i've heard of it but i don't understand it at all. where is ashman when you need him?
What don't you understand?
http://tinyurl.com/kb6gp
Tell me what that is please.
I've been waiting for someone to put a digital display on a flashing torch. What an innovation!
Yes, but to get a patent, don't you at least have to put your invention or claim thru some scientific tests? Get it evaluated and such? Thats what I'm waiting for, serious scientific inquiry into weather this is full of **** or not.
Spelling Bee Host: Alright, spell weather please.
Girl: Errr... can I have it in a sentence?
Spelling Bee Host: I don't know whether or not the weather will be fine today.
Bluesiestman
06-19-2006, 10:36 PM
Excuse me, my mistake.
griftadan
06-19-2006, 10:39 PM
What don't you understand?
i don't know, one video i saw showed this guy who could cut through rocks with his hho torch but it wouldn't even burn his skin when he touched the flame.
No problem. The Simpsons can teach us so much about life.
Atomic Rain
06-20-2006, 10:11 AM
http://tinyurl.com/kb6gp
Tell me what that is please.
It's a torch with power packs instead of batteries and a flash option.
PerpetualBurn
06-20-2006, 10:24 AM
i don't know, one video i saw showed this guy who could cut through rocks with his hho torch but it wouldn't even burn his skin when he touched the flame.
Why do I not believe this?
*sigh* when you electrolyze water you get H2 and O2 molecules from 2 H2O molecules... H2 is hydrogen... which happens to be flamable... end of discussion...
SubtleDagger
06-21-2006, 06:29 AM
It's a torch with power packs instead of batteries and a flash option.
It's a flashlight with a rechargable dry cell battery pack.
The person applying doesn't call it that of course. It's a "stroboscope".
Atomic Rain
06-21-2006, 08:57 AM
It's a flashlight with a rechargable dry cell battery pack.
The person applying doesn't call it that of course. It's a "stroboscope".
I know I want one 10x more once I heard the name.
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