Living in a nameless nation

[TojesDolan]

Instead of doing productive things with my spare time like say, learn some good recipe from a cookbook or record some stuff on my computer, I was watching a preview (I know, it's old, but you know DVD's) from that movie "American Gigolo". The particular part "Hello I'm Deuce Bigalow, I'm american" lead me to wonder, why do the citizens from the United States of America denominate themselves "Americans", and in some parts of the world, the nation is referred to as the "United States".

Making an objective study of the word, "United States of America" doesn't state anything, really. As for "United States", unless there are still some nations with separate states in the fashion of Roman city/states, there's no reason to only refer to a particular nation "United States".

As for the term "America", the whole continent is named America, and I don't consider the U.S.A. to be a particular representative nation of the whole continent, mostly because of it's overall characteristics (considering the fact that a large portion the continent speaks Spanish with slight variations from region to region).

What am I trying to say here? The United States of America, as it is, isn't really a name, and has been used as the standard denomination for what I think is a nameless nation.

Discuss the falseness in my arguments, if you don't mind.

[DillingerEscp]

never really thought about that before... I can see what youre saying.

[Against Miik!]

I've thought about that before. Technically, when you say you are American, you could be from anywhere in the western hemispehere, just about. I think its just become a common term because its easier to say. If you are from Mexico, you can say you are Mexican, from Canada, you can say you are Canadian. But there really aren't any words to describe yourself as from the U.S., at least in the same way. Nobody is going to say i'm a United States of American, or something. So over time, it just evolved into American. It is a bit conceited though, as though we are the only ones who matter over here.

[TojesDolan]

Probably the promulgators of the constitution never thought that city/states wouldn't be fashionable in the next couple centuries.

[Against Miik!]

Actually we are just to awesome to be like everybody else. Thus, we represent, by name, half the world.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

So you want us to say that we are United States-ian?

[Against Miik!]

So you want us to say that we are United States-ian?

Thats the general idea.

[Riva]

Actually we are just to awesome to be like everybody else. Thus, we represent, by name, half the world.

Enlighten me on this strange world whereby half the world, in terms of population, land, IQ, money or any other factor besides obesity, is represented by the Americas?

[Against Miik!]

Enlighten me on this strange world whereby half the world, in terms of population, land, IQ, money or any other factor besides obesity, is represented by the Americas?

It's not that complicated. I just mean that as far as land and the fact that North and South America make up most of the western hemisphere, we make up about half the world, in that sense at least. Population, no, IQ, no, money, couldn't say, weight...yeah we dominate.

[Riva]

What is this Western hemisphere? There's only two clearly defined hemispheres, the North and South. Their boundary is the Equator. What's the boundary between these two?

[Against Miik!]

What is this Western hemisphere? There's only two clearly defined hemispheres, the North and South. Their boundary is the Equator. What's the boundary between these two?

The prime meridian, which runs through the U.K., and the international dateline, which is chillin somewhere out in the pacific.

[TojesDolan]

So you want us to say that we are United States-ian?
Not really, I was just pointing out the fact that the United States of America's denomination is just some generalization, and for some reason the fact that other nations and races cohabitate in the same continent apparently wasn't a big concern among the ones that gave the U.S.A. such name.

What is this Western hemisphere? There's only two clearly defined hemispheres, the North and South. Their boundary is the Equator. What's the boundary between these two?

The Atlantic Ocean, which can be considered the division of the "Old World", pretty much all Eurasia and the "New World", the american continent.

If U.S.A. wants to keep the "americans" term we can go back to naming the continent... eh, ugh crap forgot the old name of America. :-|

[Riva]

So, you're saying that half of Antarctica, the Western third of Africa, part of England, Greenland, numerous small Pacific Islands and the Americas are all part of the Western Hemisphere?

What's the point?

EDIT: Tojes, your way makes sense.

[Against Miik!]

So, you're saying that half of Antarctica, the Western third of Africa, part of England, Greenland, numerous small Pacific Islands and the Americas are all part of the Western Hemisphere?

What's the point?

Well technically I guess. Whats the point of anything.

[TojesDolan]

Well technically I guess. Whats the point of anything.
Point out the fact that the name for the U.S.A. is so general it's not even funny.

[Reaganista]

Making an objective study of the word, "United States of America" doesn't state anything, really
It actually states all you need to know and a lot more than most other countries names ever state.

there was some states in america
they united

[MattSharpIsCool]

Why must some people find the most pointless crap to prove how stuck up Americans are. Yes, because we call ourselves Americans, we obviously think we're more important than someone living in Chile.

Tway pretty much said it. What else should the US be called? Its a country made up of states that united under one name, and it happens to be located in the Americas.

Find something more relevant to argue about.

[Riva]

Why must some people find the most pointless crap to prove how stuck up Americans are. Yes, because we call ourselves Americans, we obviously think we're more important than someone living in Chile.

Tway pretty much said it. What else should the US be called? Its a country made up of states that united under one name, and it happens to be located in the Americas.

Find something more relevant to argue about.

Ok, why is your baseball competition called the World Series when only one country plays?

[Reaganista]

the teams have no affiliation with the places they play in

[TojesDolan]

Mexico is also a Union of states in the American continent.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Hmm, I wonder if other countries care about this name thing.

[Riva]

the teams have no affiliation with the places they play in

Oh ok, so obviously you're all representatives of the world.

[Phaedra]

Ok, why is your baseball competition called the World Series when only one country plays?
It always makes me giggle when I'm watching the Superbowl, and they keep referring to the winner as "World Champions." Yet they've played in an American competition, against American teams, in American cities (with one game held in Mexico City last year :eek:) with Television coverage that just reeks Americana.

Sure they probably are the best teams in the world, but nevertheless it brings a giggle to the heart.

[Reaganista]

Oh ok, so obviously you're all representatives of the world
unless they are deliberately behaving in an economically irrational manner, all of the best baseball players in the world should be in MLB

[PerpetualBurn]

I'm fairly sure that pretty much every baseball player in the world is in America. Where the hell else would they even find a team?

[TojesDolan]

I'm fairly sure that pretty much every baseball player in the world is in America. Where the hell else would they even find a team?
Several countries have their own little leagues.

Just to mention a couple, the Mexican Baseball League and the Japanese Baseball League.

No matter how small they are, they are still leagues outside the U.S. ;)

[Reaganista]

I'm fairly sure that pretty much every baseball player in the world is in America. Where the hell else would they even find a team?
ignorant british people lost their novelty a long time ago

[-1up!-]

I'm fairly sure that pretty much every baseball player in the world is in America. Where the hell else would they even find a team?

Wake up and realize Japan are baseball freaks as well.

[Noku]

My friend plays in Finnish baseball team... On the other hand we have our own version of "baseball" which could be translated as "nestball"... pretty much because the bases are called "nests"...

[PerpetualBurn]

Wow "pretty much every player". So when you people named 3 other small and insignificant leagues, this made me rethink the situation. I was wrong to doubt the global fanaticism shown towards baseball.

[Letto]

Wow "pretty much every player". So when you people named 3 other small and insignificant leagues, this made me rethink the situation. I was wrong to doubt the global fanaticism shown towards baseball.

Apparently you didn't see the World Baseball Classic that took place a few months ago. The Japan league is huge over there, and many are starting to make their way over here (even though they're treated like royalty in Japan). Plus there are tons of up-and-coming players from South America and the Caribbean (but I guess you consider the leagues in Cuba, the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico to be insignificant).

So first you made an exagerrated remark that you probably didn't think was an exagerration. Then when it was pointed out wrong, you made an attempt to belittle all the other leagues besides the MLB? Nice work.

[Reaganista]

Wow "pretty much every player". So when you people named 3 other small and insignificant leagues, this made me rethink the situation. I was wrong to doubt the global fanaticism shown towards baseball.
please continue digging

[TojesDolan]

South America and most importantly Cuba has a great interest in baseball.

Not only that, they are great at it. What's your point?

And at any case, what's my point?

[PerpetualBurn]

Yes. There are few baseball leagues which are at a high level when compared to other sports.

[Against Miik!]

I dont know how we got on sports but whatever. Theres no point in arguing over whether it should be called the "World Series" or "World Champions". Thats just arguing over the language. Its safe to say that in the sports of baseball, football, and questionably basketball, all the best players play in the U.S. leagues. Since players from all around the world come to play in these leagues, the team that wins can be called the world champions.

[Zoroaster]

Everytime I read a thread or article that grapples with semantics, I heave a big, lament-like sigh. As you pointed out in your first sentence - and thankfully on your part - there are so many interesting fields much more deserving than a discussion of the perceived dynamics of culture. Really, when it comes down to it, there are some commonalities that bridge us together (such as nationality, creed, race etc.) and there are some differences that separate us apart. Our achievements in life are however only contingent on how we choose to pursue our own interests within the framework of the above commonalities. Call a citizen "USian" or American, it doesn't matter - and it shouldn't. It's of no consequence - other than to the overzealous anthropologist with too much time and money on his hands to waste. Instead weigh a nation's merit by how much they've accomplished. There probably is no better nation than the United States of America to start off your analysis.

[Phaedra]

There probably is no better nation than the United States of America to start off your analysis.
Or China.

[Zoroaster]

Yes, because we all know their merits far outweigh the welfare the United States have accumulated for themselves. Give me a break.

[Amit]

What about India? >:[

[Phaedra]

Who said we should start at the top? I might want to start with the light task of analyzing a small country such as Fiji.

But really, it depends how far back in history you look. Considering China's long and prosperous history, your statement appears quite arrogant upon first glance.

[Zoroaster]

But really, it depends how far back in history you look. Considering China's long and prosperous history, your statement appears quite arrogant upon first glance.

History-smishtory. What truly matters are the problems facing countries and cultures in a modern perspective, and the appropriate solutions to address them. If communism was conducive to welfare, I'd be touting its virtue like all other unsecure, "O'-woe-is-me" teenagers. The fact that it doesn't is reason enough for me to condemn its inherent folly.

As for China's prowess and prosperity in the past, try convincing an investment bank that 10th century irrigation can greatly improve the growth of crops. We're way past that stage. No need to harp on the past.

[Phaedra]

As for China's prowess and prosperity in the past, try convincing an investment bank that 10th century irrigation can greatly improve the growth of crops.
Try convincing an investment bank that the place to look is the American economy when the Chinese economy is the fastest growing major economy in the world.

The direction of U.S external debt is unsustainable, something has to break, something has to happen to all those US dollars sitting over there in Japanese banks.

[Smokey D]

The US economy isn't going to collapse any time soon. Even if China is the fastest growing economy in the world (which is actually debatable due to the vast costs incurred by the PRC in the form of environmental damage), there's still 12 trillion dollars GDP per annum generated in the United States -- no other market can match that.

[Phaedra]

The US economy isn't going to collapse any time soon.
We are quite literally in unchartered territory though.

Even if China is the fastest growing economy in the world (which is actually debatable due to the vast costs incurred by the PRC in the form of environmental damage), there's still 12 trillion dollars GDP per annum generated in the United States -- no other market can match that.
And with over 9 trillion dollars GDP per annum (PPP), at a growth rate of 9.9% in 2005, it could be fairly soon that we see China overtaking. Enviromental issues certainly will be a problem, but its ramifications will only start becoming apparent in the long term.

The US market may be stable, but China is like an open door for investment oppurtunities (about 45% of all Chinese exports are made by foreign-invested businesses).

[Smokey D]

It costs approximately 14% of China's GDP to deal with the environmental problems caused by the Party's policies. And the issues are hardly long term -- China is already 36% desert, and it is increasing by 1-2% per year.

[Phaedra]

Between 1980 and 1997 the average rural Chinese farm size fell from 0.56 hectares to 0.40 hectares, yet productivity stayed pretty much the same for that period. China is one of the strongest agricultural research systems in the world, and with a strong dedication to argicultural output from the Government (as a large population shift from rual to urban would be devastating) the enviromental woes should be offset.

Heck, the average yields for Chinese farmers have even increased in recent years, with the yields for rice and maize increasing by about 2.5% per year.

[Smokey D]

Of course China is an attractive investment oppurtunity, but it is not the unqualified success it has often been made out to be in the media.

[Phaedra]

Well yes, that is true.

And surely you agree that the proposed free trade agreement between China and New Zealand would have benefitted us greatly?

[Smokey D]

Oh of course. Free trade benefits everyone -- especially small nations like NZ.

[Zoroaster]

Try convincing an investment bank that the place to look is the American economy when the Chinese economy is the fastest growing major economy in the world.

The direction of U.S external debt is unsustainable, something has to break, something has to happen to all those US dollars sitting over there in Japanese banks.


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Read up on something economists call "dark matter" as pertains to external debts. The US will most definitely not buckle over the purported pressure of "unsustainable borrowing."

Of course China is an attractive investment oppurtunity, but it is not the unqualified success it has often been made out to be in the media.

Erm. You're jumping on the gun here, mate. China's financial infrastructure is so ill-equipped to handle the amount of FDI targeting its industrial markets the expected returns are volatile to say the least. In fact, Merrill Lynch recently released a rapport downplaying the media-hype created by similarly ill-equipped journalists bandying about economic growth figures as if they were representative of returns on investment.

[Smokey D]

It's still an attractive market, especially to large scale corporates who can afford to absorb some short term losses.

[Lupus]

It's nothing special. Australia (Australis) just means south (or some derivative), and I'm sure you could plenty of other examples.

[Zoroaster]

It's still an attractive market, especially to large scale corporates who can afford to absorb some short term losses.

Again, I reiterate, rates of return (due to the volatility of the Chinese market) don't equate to nor come near to compatibility figures computed for capital creation or even the grossly misleading estimates of economic growth.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Of course, the same basic statement for this thread could be said about the United Arab Emirates

[Noku]

China is developing country and that is why it is interesting target for investments. No one can deny the fact that during past decade China has developed significantly better education system, infrastructure for industry and the markets have grown.

[Smokey D]

Again, I reiterate, rates of return (due to the volatility of the Chinese market) don't equate to nor come near to compatibility figures computed for capital creation or even the grossly misleading estimates of economic growth.

Tell that to Walmart.