Celebrity Obssessed Culture

[Hababi]

Why is America such a celebrity obsessed culture? Or, do you somehow feel it is not. And, do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing?

[Steerpike]

This sums up my thoughts on the celebrity obsession in America. (http://www.multiplexcomic.com/strips/057.php)

My guess is that people are obsessed with celebrities because we've had the American Dream crammed down our throats since an early age, so we develop a fascination with the people who have supposedly achieved it. Some people imagine that they may someday join that crowd, and they want to learn life is going to be like in that class. Or perhaps they think that because a person is famous, their life must be much more interesting and important than everyone else's.

[coheneran]

I don't generally like celebrity, but I guess if some people enjoy being celebrities and they've earned it through achievement, then good for them. The real scary and yucky problem is with these celebrities that get famous for doing NOTHING. Like this blonde tart called Chantelle who was on Big Brother once, and now she's getting her own show, I think she's got her own perfume, she gets loads of media attention for, and this is important, BEING A DAFT ****ING TART WHO IS ONLY ATTRACTIVE IN THE BARBIE SENSE OF THE WORD.

EDIT: Awesome comic, gonna read more.

[Against Miik!]

I hate celebrities, in general. Nothing makes them better than anybody else. I mean sure they are talented, but lots of people are talented. I guess what really gets me angry is when they act like they are better than everybody else. So there are of course a few celebrities that i'm cool with. Johnny Depp for example. Case can be made that he is one of the best actors in Hollywood. But he just chills with his family in Paris, makes a few movies a year, and doesn't make a big fuss. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Celebrities on the whole, suck. Like a rimjob. Think about it.

[rockinbass17]

I detest the whole celebrity-obsession in this country. It blows my mind how much media attention is given to petty events in a celebrity's life. So what if Brad Pitt and Angelina JOlie had a child? How is that front page news over the economy, war, etc.? Worse, all the attention make people like Paris Hilton seem like a good role model to far too many young people.

[Afro Ninja]

lol nice comic Steerpike

onto the buisness at hand though, In think how bad some people adore celebrities is horrible. I have no problem with modest interest in actors and other celbrities as they are the mainstream icons of an american pastime, so it is only natural to discuss them to a point. What I do have a problem with though, is all the dam girls in my school who obsess over every minor character from shows and discuss things like "The O.C." like their life depended on it and will not break from the idea that they should discuss it instead of something worthwhile.

[coheneran]

I hate celebrities, in general. Nothing makes them better than anybody else. I mean sure they are talented, but lots of people are talented. I guess what really gets me angry is when they act like they are better than everybody else. So there are of course a few celebrities that i'm cool with. Johnny Depp for example. Case can be made that he is one of the best actors in Hollywood. But he just chills with his family in Paris, makes a few movies a year, and doesn't make a big fuss. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Celebrities on the whole, suck. Like a rimjob. Think about it.

I object to that! Millions of people enjoy reamjobs (it's actually just called reaming) the world over. Giving reaming a bad name, bah!

[menikmati]

This sums up my thoughts on the celebrity obsession in America. (http://www.multiplexcomic.com/strips/057.php)

My guess is that people are obsessed with celebrities because we've had the American Dream crammed down our throats since an early age, so we develop a fascination with the people who have supposedly achieved it. Some people imagine that they may someday join that crowd, and they want to learn life is going to be like in that class. Or perhaps they think that because a person is famous, their life must be much more interesting and important than everyone else's.
I think this pretty much sums it up.

And I know i'm generalising, but I think it's just the majority of girls in a said country that is obsessed with the culture. I don't think many boys are obsessed, or even care much for this kind of thing.

[Against Miik!]

I object to that! Millions of people enjoy reamjobs (it's actually just called reaming) the world over. Giving reaming a bad name, bah!

I'm not calling reaming or whatever a bad thing. I'm just saying celebrities suck on the whole.

[rockinbass17]

And I know i'm generalising, but I think it's just the majority of girls in a said country that is obsessed with the culture. I don't think many boys are obsessed, or even care much for this kind of thing.

I feel that a good amount of guys do it to, just more subconsciously.

[Against Miik!]

I feel that a good amount of guys do it to, just more subconsciously.

I can say from experience, working at a place that sells tabloids and people magazine and such. That for every 10 women that buy a magazine like that, maybe 1 guy will.

[coheneran]

I can say from experience, working at a place that sells tabloids and people magazine and such. That for every 10 women that buy a magazine like that, maybe 1 guy will.

Yeah, but how many guys buy FHM, Zoo, Nuts and all those other "Men's Entertainment" magazines? Those are just gossip rags for guys.

Oh man, I'm totally addicted to Multiplex now. It's like Clerks, but in a cinema. Checkit: http://www.multiplexcomic.com/strips/021.php

[morrissey]

I can say from experience, working at a place that sells tabloids and people magazine and such. That for every 10 women that buy a magazine like that, maybe 1 guy will.

[Straight] guys may not buy magazines like People etc., but you're still as aware of celebrity happenings as anyone. It's unescapable.

[what]

no not really, just stop watching television, reading newspapers, and all the other mass media crap and dig yourself in the past like me.

[Scuba_Steve]

It irritates me to a huge extent, but doesn't really make me angry so to speak.


My friends and I walked down to the corner shop yesterday during out lunch period (so it was 2 guys and 3 girls) and while me and my friend were getting a slushie two of the girls spent the WHOLE time talking about angelina jolie's baby's lips.

That is what makes me angry, I don't care about how much cash the people get or even if they don't deserve it. I'm sick of people wasting time discussing such meaningless things that relates to celebrities.

[coheneran]

[Straight] guys may not buy magazines like People etc., but you're still as aware of celebrity happenings as anyone. It's unescapable.

Not completely. For example, I only found out about Brad Pitt and that chick from Friends's baby in Rockinbass17's post earlier.

[Steerpike]

Oh man, I'm totally addicted to Multiplex now. It's like Clerks, but in a cinema.

Exactly.

Anyway, the celebrity obsession is a huge pastime in America. I've already stated my reasons for thinking so, but I will admit that in part I am guilty now and again.

I really admire Robert Rodriguez for example. He's been a big inspiration for me. And when I really like a filmmaker or actor or musician or author, etc. I generally want to find out more about the artist. What inspired them, what methods they use, their influences, and so on.

I like to think that this is better than obsessing over how far Paris Hilton's hip bones are jutting out this week, but in reality it's just an extension of my own obsessions with art. Though I maintain that my delving into all of this does have some relevance as it's the pursuit of interests I have relevant to my career and hobbies.

[morrissey]

Not completely. For example, I only found out about Brad Pitt and that chick from Friends's baby in Rockinbass17's post earlier.
But you're European, aren't you? You have your own retarded celebrities to contend with. If you're American, well then congrats on being more secluded than the average. It wasn't the "chick from Friends'" baby but rather Angelina Jolie's.

It just seems like it's all pretty hard to avoid. Even though I don't read trashy magazines, watch Entertainment Tonight or seek out any celebrity information, I still know the general who's-who, who's-screwing-who of Hollywood. But even though I know this information it is much easier to just not care about it rather than get in a tiff about anything celebrities do or say.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Ya celebrity obsession is pretty stupid. When I visit my family in LA I just don't know what to say. Like my aunt... has two adopted korean kids, like there's no way it wasn't influenced by Angelina Jolie's adopting. She treats them like a mother and I guess that's cool but, idk. Idk maybe I'm guilty of admiring a celebrity or two. For example, I think Bruce Lee is the coolest guy who has ever lived. I admire Marlon Brando's acting and presence that nobody can even dream of achieving. Brad Pitt in Fight Club and in general is just ****ing hot, and I'm not even gay. This thread reminds me of Fight Club because one of the issues in the movie was celebrity worship, or the beast that is corporations and media shaping what we think we should be or what is right, and the purpose of a fight club was to rebel against that with primal carnage.

[coheneran]

Ya celebrity obsession is pretty stupid. When I visit my family in LA I just don't know what to say. Like my aunt... has two adopted korean kids, like there's no way it wasn't influenced by Angelina Jolie's adopting. She treats them like a mother and I guess that's cool but, idk. Idk maybe I'm guilty of admiring a celebrity or two. For example, I think Bruce Lee is the coolest guy who has ever lived. I admire Marlon Brando's acting and presence that nobody can even dream of achieving. Brad Pitt in Fight Club and in general is just ****ing hot, and I'm not even gay. This thread reminds me of Fight Club because one of the issues in the movie was celebrity worship, or the beast that is corporations and media shaping what we think we should be or what is right, and the purpose of a fight club was to rebel against that with primal carnage.

Don't feel guilty, we all think Brad Pitt is hot (his sexiest appearance being in Thelma and Louise, damn that scene was hot). We also all think that Bruce Lee is the most asskickinest dude around. Did you see Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story? The guy who played him did it pretty damn well. Now, as for Edward Norton, he's just hot everywhere, but especially in American History X, but more importantly, he's one of Hollywood's best actors.

EDIT: This comic represents my feelings not on hyped up personalities, but on hyped up stories: http://www.multiplexcomic.com/strips/061.php

[Reaganista]

Amerkian kulture values konsumption above all else

kelebrities are wealthy, rabid konsumers, so it benefits kapital to promote kelebrity worship, whikh promotes konsumption, whikh promotes kelebrity worship and so on and so forth
it's a vikious kykle

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Amerkian kulture values konsumption above all else

kelebrities are wealthy, rabid konsumers, so it benefits kapital to promote kelebrity worship, whikh promotes konsumption, whikh promotes kelebrity worship and so on and so forth
it's a vikious kykle

I hate to say it, but really really well said.

[coheneran]

Lawlz, vicious kykle.

[thedeadwalk!]

kykle
:lol:

But I actually agree, to an extent, that celebrity obsession is really propelled by businesses, and a general facination toward fame exists in all cultures and potentially could be exploited like it is here.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

Don't feel guilty, we all think Brad Pitt is hot (his sexiest appearance being in Thelma and Louise, damn that scene was hot). We also all think that Bruce Lee is the most asskickinest dude around. Did you see Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story? The guy who played him did it pretty damn well. Now, as for Edward Norton, he's just hot everywhere, but especially in American History X, but more importantly, he's one of Hollywood's best actors.

EDIT: This comic represents my feelings not on hyped up personalities, but on hyped up stories: http://www.multiplexcomic.com/strips/061.php

Ya, Ed Norton is a smart guy, him and other actors and musicians are like heroes and role models to me in different ways, like you take a bit of their personality that you find appealing, while shaving off not so appealing things ie. drug addictions. I like Steve Buscemi, that guy is so wierd looking but he's such a good actor, and he's just badass w/ those pearly whites. Sean Connery in the 007's taught me to be a man. Muddy Waters taught me that you don't have to put on a mask to be cool, that you can just be yourself. Now that I think about it, without icons and celebrities to formulize and signify our ideas, this country would blow. What if we never recruited Brando or James Dean to be poster boys for the ideas of Rock and Roll? and etc etc. Somebody told me about a book some guy wrote and in it he hypothesizes that our culture is actually making us smarter, I gotta find it.

[Hutch306]

Honestly, what difference does it make if your neighbor adores celebrities? It harms you in no direct way, and it seems to provide a way for people to escape the thought that they aren't going to leave their poor, pathetic, miserable lives.

For example, if I were to look at Tiger Wood's home, for about 10 seconds, my mind would drift off wondering "what if" after "what if". What if I lived in that home, I would be set for life. What if I had that much money and a Swedish wife. What if I had a Swedish wife. How cool would that be.

I mean, it's as simple as that. People get lost in the "dream world" and it provides as an escape mechanism. It's not a big deal and America is in no worse shape because people obsess about celebrities.

[Steerpike]

I mean, it's as simple as that. People get lost in the "dream world" and it provides as an escape mechanism. It's not a big deal and America is in no worse shape because people obsess about celebrities.

I would say that there is a distressing undertone in the idea that most people would rather discuss Tom Cruise's denial over his homosexuality than what's actually going on in the rest of the world.

There's no problem with thinking about celebrities. But a lot of people take it to an unhealthy extreme. They would rather grow up to be experts in the nuances of an actor's life than educated adults.

[BassRevelation1029]

Why is America such a celebrity obsessed culture? Or, do you somehow feel it is not. And, do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing?
im so glad im not the only one who noticed this. Like ive said, people cant name the people who affect their lives, but they can name Britney Spears' husband. Embarrasing how foreigners know more about America than Americans do.

[Matt?]

i think it's definitely a good thing, but bad things come of it too.

the whole basis of the american dream would be completely changed if it wasn't for celebrities.

do you think that if america wasn't so celebrity obsessed would it have an affect on racism? i sort of feel like if we weren't in a celebrity obsessed society there would be a lot more racists

[SubtleDagger]

I seriously almost never watch TV so I have no concept of celebrities anymore. It hasn't had much of an effect on me.

[Smokey D]

Honestly, what difference does it make if your neighbor adores celebrities? It harms you in no direct way, and it seems to provide a way for people to escape the thought that they aren't going to leave their poor, pathetic, miserable lives.

No, I think it does harm us. A society fascinated with celebrity to the exclusion of more sensible pursuits is a flawed society, and that hurts everyone.

Not that the government should intervene to change it or anything.

[A Spoonful Supreme]

The only celebrities I'm really aware of are from cinema, music, and literature. I don't watch TV either save for National Geographic, Comedy Central, Bravo, and AMC, once in a while.

[Hutch306]

No, I think it does harm us. A society fascinated with celebrity to the exclusion of more sensible pursuits is a flawed society, and that hurts everyone.

Not that the government should intervene to change it or anything.


They are only more sensible approaches to me and you though. Not everyone is interested in Politics and World Issues, no matter how much you or I think they SHOULD be. Now I do agree that people should at least pay attention to their government and the people who matter, but like I said, not everybody agrees with us.

[Smokey D]

No, they are more sensible approaches universally.

If you're going to support invading a country, it behooves you to know the facts of the case, such as where it is and who lives there, rather than simply agreeing with a politician or film star.

[Against Miik!]

No, they are more sensible approaches universally.

If you're going to support invading a country, it behooves you to know where the facts of the case, such as where it is and who lives there, rather than simply agreeing with a politician or film star.

Thats what I hate about a lot of kids at my school. They love George Bush just because they like country music. I mean, is that really a way to go through life?

[Rogue Six]

Some of the modern american society wish to be inundated with the knowledge of what Angelina Jolie or Tom Cruise are doing every waking moment of their lives. It ensnares them, Where I live they have a four o'clock newscast, followed by Hollywood insider? and then they have entertainment tonight. How many "Hollywood" news shows do you really need? they only need to be aired once a week, they seem to run the same story again and again and again. Angelina and Brad had a baby, That ends up on the Regular newscast, as well as where american soldiers got blew up at today, weather and sports. Most of Society's attention is on that useless information concerning celebrity than the stuff that actualy matters. Sometimes it's kind of nice just to not worry about anything and hear what the gossip is. But I'd rather watch a ball game, or play my bass. Some celebrity obsession seems the lessen the current quality of life, You're living in a two story house, enough room and value, but some how it doesn't seem so nice since some one in the celeb circle just bought a $12 five room beach shack in Jamaica..

Women seem to be more celebriy obsessed than the guys are.. I've always noticed that. Look at a supermarket's magazine Aisle. It's People, the Enquirer and those other celeb rags down at one end with modern bride and what not, where as down on the other end, it's Sports Illustrated and Muscle and fitness. that's the "Mens end." Time and Newsweek are in the middle with Kipplingers and the Saturday evening Post.

["Freshly Baked"]

Every country has a culture, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Japan, but U.S.A. doesn't really have a culture, we don't really have rituals, so we made one: making 20 mags every week about the same thing: "ZOMFG, K-FED CUT HIS HAIR" then 10 more "ZOMFG, K-FED CUT HIS HAIR AND BRUSHED HIS TEETH" it's all sad, but meh. What are you gonna do?

["Freshly Baked"]

Women are obsessed about Celebrities and Men are obsessed about sports.......


........ But what are herms interested in???

[coheneran]

Women are obsessed about Celebrities and Men are obsessed about sports.......


........ But what are herms interested in???

Heshes are interested in stfu idiot.

[badtaste]

I still fail to understand why Oprah Winfrey gets a standing ovation EVERY... BLOODY... EPISODE!!!

["Freshly Baked"]

.... Because they want free ****.

[Uberman]

Originally posted by Deus Ex
JC Denton: "Electronic surveillance hardly inspires reverance. Perhaps fear and obedience, but not reverance."
Morpheus: "God and the gods were apparitions of observation, judgement and punishment. Other sentiments towards them were secondary."
JC Denton: "No one will ever worship a software entity peering at them through a camera."
Morpheus: "The human organism always worships. First, it was the gods, then it was fame (the observation and judgement of others), next it will be self-aware systems you have built to realise truly omnipresent observation and judgement."
JC Denton: "You underestimate humankind's love of freedom."
Morpheus: "The individual desires judgement. Without that desire, the cohesion of groups is impossible, and so is civilisation."


Seriously, though, better Hollywood than Bollywood, am I right?

[Reaganista]

Every country has a culture, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Japan, but U.S.A. doesn't really have a culture
yeah they do

[-1up!-]

The celebrity cult is ridiculous. Like said many times, attention is given to people who achieve nothing but popularity. Sure there are some good actors. There are also good salesmen and good breadmakers and lawyers and doctors and teachers and no one will hear about them although they changed more people's lives in a positive way, especially teachers. Popularity as a life objective is nothing short of mediocre, completely superficial, and is the complete outblowing and perversion of the American dream.

[JohnXDoe]

I think it is and I think it's terrible. Not society is going to crumble terrible, just terribly stupid and idol worship like. I saw Brittany on Dateline last night. She is just your average American girl. Dumb as toast and with a boyfriend (Kevin whatever) to match. Why people are so interested and fascinated by them is your guess as good as mine. But I have a few ideas.

Living in L.A. I can tell you the perception of "celebrity" is way off. I can also tell you theirr are a lot of talented people out here. Trouble is talent is not what this celebrity worship is all about, of course. Paris Hilton is famous. Why? No reason. Brittany Spears was a walking Barbie Doll and now she is the new Anna Nicole Smith. But that has always been her. It's just this idol worship that people let blind them to that fact.

People want to see themselves out of their own small, misreable lives. They project themselves onto others and allow themselves to be projected upon. Live vicariously through anothers success/dreams. This is just modern day soap opera stuff. Soap Opera=National Enquierer=A Current Affair=Geraldo=Reality TV (where even you can be on TV!)=American Idol= one big sea of crap. So that's what we have. People who look up to and worship "celebrities" who are like them so that they can feel better about themselves. But then when these people get taken down a notch or two (OMFG Brittany is driving with her baby on her lap OMFG she's white trash) these very same people who worship them either defend them stronger as to not shatter their illusions or take them down and move onto the next celebrity "Idol/victim". It's the American Way. :)

We're going to hell in a handbasket, I tell 'ya......And I don't even know what that means. :(

[Reaganista]

Why people are so interested and fascinated by them is your guess as good as mine
because of their gluttonous ability to consume

[Hutch306]

No, they are more sensible approaches universally.

If you're going to support invading a country, it behooves you to know the facts of the case, such as where it is and who lives there, rather than simply agreeing with a politician or film star.

This is what I'm talking about. Just because you think that it is more sensible to look at facts supporting invasion doesn't mean that everybody should. Some people find it sensible to jump off of a cliff, but that doesn't mean that you do too.

Getting back to the topic at hand though, Americans are definately celebrity obsessed. But no direct harm has come because of it. I mean, if people want to wish they lived that life, let them. Let them wish in one hand and crap in the other and see what they get first. I mean, honestly, it's not that big of a deal.

[Frankie]

If you think you've got it bad try living in england with crap mags such as Heat. I was in a shop the other day and I saw "Jade's birthday part pics inside". I thought to myslef why the hell has this women made millions of stupidity, is she a PR genius. Yeah :rolleyes:. Newspapers tout endless stories of so called celebs (who usually have been in [insert reality TV show here]) And footballers wives. Why the fu'ck do people care what the f'uck Wayne Rooneys gf does with her time. Does she do anything particulary interestiing. No. SO what the fu'cks with the story !!!

When it really comes down to it tho' if people didn't crave this crap then there wouldn't be a market for it. Still doesn't explain to my poor brain why talentless fools become rich and famous for doing f'uck all.

Stupid world :-\

[The_Passenger]

I don't particualrly like the obsession with celebrity in England. I guess reading up about the rich and famous is a form of escapism for some people. I don't see how it's particularly damaging, but it would be better if people cared more about more important things.

[thetrickedoutfernandez]

ever read farenheit 451? i strongly believe thats where our culture is headed just read the part about how the president is voted on purely by looks

[DBoons Ghost]

I see everyone talking America this and America that..

Umm..

Lady Di was killed by French papparazzi more or less eh?

Most of the tabloids and celebrity rags are British..

Japanese wackjobs line up for days sometimes to see their baseball players, who are all larger then life..

Let's keep things in perspective here folks ok?

[Steerpike]

I see everyone talking America this and America that..

Umm..

Lady Di was killed by French papparazzi more or less eh?

Most of the tabloids and celebrity rags are British..

Japanese wackjobs line up for days sometimes to see their baseball players, who are all larger then life..

Let's keep things in perspective here folks ok?

I'm hardly saying America is the only group guilty of celebrity worship. Hell, in Japan the word for voice actors (can't remember it off the top of my head) translated means "voice hero."

But in general celebrity worship is counterproductive, because it only ever makes people feel inadequate and neurotic. The celebrities are often people who have a lot. They can afford "the best." And since we can't have that, people who covet it start to feel shortchanged. They're not the best, and because of that they don't even feel good.

[DBoons Ghost]

Any worship is counterproductive.

Worship yourself.

That's all you'll ever need. How many celebritiies are aboslutely miserable? How many lessons have we learned on the manner of money can't buy you happiness?

Fame sucks. Some people thrive on it, and they live phony existences in which they yearn for something more almost all the time. Acting for the art is the good stuff, but "celebrities" are exactly what we deem them. Fantasies. Even those living those lives really don't have a grasp. They're surrounded by fake phony suckups and it's gotta be a truly tortured existence.

However, I said what I did because all the ignorant jackoffs seem to tie in celebrity life with the American Dream, and if that were truly the case, America would be the only place with tabloids or gossip shows, and we know that not to be the case. My post was directed towards anyone mentioning "celebrity" and "American Dream" in the same post.

[Atomic Rain]

yeah they do

Otherwise there would not be a word for things to do with it

namely "americana"

morelike amerikkkana rite

[Atomic Rain]

I see everyone talking America this and America that..

Umm..

Lady Di was killed by French papparazzi more or less eh?

Most of the tabloids and celebrity rags are British..

Japanese wackjobs line up for days sometimes to see their baseball players, who are all larger then life..

Let's keep things in perspective here folks ok?

Some think that the royal family/mi5 had her kiled even

seems kinda unlikely

The parazzi failed to even try and help, they just took loadsa photos and buggered off i think

[Steerpike]

Fame sucks. Some people thrive on it, and they live phony existences in which they yearn for something more almost all the time. Acting for the art is the good stuff, but "celebrities" are exactly what we deem them. Fantasies. Even those living those lives really don't have a grasp. They're surrounded by fake phony suckups and it's gotta be a truly tortured existence.

However, I said what I did because all the ignorant jackoffs seem to tie in celebrity life with the American Dream, and if that were truly the case, America would be the only place with tabloids or gossip shows, and we know that not to be the case. My post was directed towards anyone mentioning "celebrity" and "American Dream" in the same post.

Well, to be fair, the American Dream probably does play some role in American celebrity worship. But it's hardly an exclusive phenomenon. Speaking as an American (just as you), we do live in a culture that tells us that the world actually owes us something. Which is patently false, but nevertheless...

[DBoons Ghost]

Well, to be fair, the American Dream probably does play some role in American celebrity worship. But it's hardly an exclusive phenomenon. Speaking as an American (just as you), we do live in a culture that tells us that the world actually owes us something. Which is patently false, but nevertheless...

Well, that's an interesting take. I suppose I never actually felt anyone owed me anything, save Uncle Sam and the money he rapes from my paycheck, and what do I get in return?

Tom Cruise is worshipped. For what? Bad action movies? He makes 20 million a movie.

The people working and striving to cure AIDS make 70k a year on grants if they are lucky, and what do they get? Nothing.

Sick world we live in. Either way you make a good point.

[maniac0796]

UK sucks. Dumb women who are sluts are awarded fame, like the bitch chantelle, or jade. Smart women are thrown in the corner and made to work, but get no credit, because some selfish slut of a "celebrity" will just market the cure/product the smart woman has made, and get all the money.

And then there are footballers. Ohhh god, don't get me started on them. More violence off pitch than off pitch. They're all chavs who can't keep a wife for more than 2 months, with the odd exception.

[Steerpike]

Well, that's an interesting take. I suppose I never actually felt anyone owed me anything, save Uncle Sam and the money he rapes from my paycheck, and what do I get in return?

Tom Cruise is worshipped. For what? Bad action movies? He makes 20 million a movie.

The people working and striving to cure AIDS make 70k a year on grants if they are lucky, and what do they get? Nothing.

Sick world we live in. Either way you make a good point.

Don't get me wrong, I sympathize. But growing up I noticed that a lot of people seemed to believe that they deserved more than they had. They kept talking about America being the greatest contry of all, and I always picked up a subtext meaning they were still waiting for their 30-room mansion and chauffeur.

Is this attitude exclusive to Americans? Probably not. But it's prevalent in our society because it makes us better consumers. Note though that better doesn't necessarily mean smarter.

[coheneran]

Seriously, though, better Hollywood than Bollywood, am I right?

It's about time somebody quoted that masterpiece. Have you got a link for the other scripts?

[Mona_Lisas_Dead]

Yeah, celebrity obsession is weird. It's not as big here in Australia, but it still exists. But what i think people have trouble here is determining the difference between a fan and enjoying someones work and wanting to know stuff about them. And knowing every detail, discussing every move and practically spending every waking moment addicted to someone. Its crazy. Like i'm a fairly big fan of Delta Goodrem, but I dont know her adress, i dont know exactly where she will be at evey waking moment, and i dont know every minute detail about her, not do i discuss every minute detail about her. Sure i discuss her music alot, but their is a difference bewteen obsession with a PERSON And obsessing with their work.

[Uberman]

Originally posted by coheneran
It's about time somebody quoted that masterpiece. Have you got a link for the other scripts?

If you mean Deus Ex, try http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Deus_Ex

[coheneran]

If you mean Deus Ex, try http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Deus_Ex

Cheers man. Yeah, best plot for a game, ever. I like this, I'm probably gonna spend the night reading them:

Leo Gold: "Don’t believe me? It’s all in the numbers. For a hundred years, there’s been a conspiracy of plutocrats against ordinary people."
JC Denton: "Do you have a single fact to back that up?"
Leo Gold: "Number one: In 1945, corporations paid 50 percent of federal taxes. Now they pay about 5 percent. Number two: in 1900, 90 percent of Americans were self-employed; now it’s about two percent."
JC Denton: "So?"
Leo Gold: "It’s called consolidation. Strengthen governments and corporations, weaken individuals. With taxes, this can be done imperceptibly over time."

[Smokey D]

This is what I'm talking about. Just because you think that it is more sensible to look at facts supporting invasion doesn't mean that everybody should. Some people find it sensible to jump off of a cliff, but that doesn't mean that you do too.

No, it is sensible to know about things other than celebrities. This is true in the same way that a mathmatician is probably more intelligent than a ditch digger.

Sensible is only subjective up to a point -- after that, you're just wrong.

[FungusAmngus870]

I don't generally like celebrity, but I guess if some people enjoy being celebrities and they've earned it through achievement, then good for them. The real scary and yucky problem is with these celebrities that get famous for doing NOTHING. Like this blonde tart called Chantelle who was on Big Brother once, and now she's getting her own show, I think she's got her own perfume, she gets loads of media attention for, and this is important, BEING A DAFT ****ING TART WHO IS ONLY ATTRACTIVE IN THE BARBIE SENSE OF THE WORD.

EDIT: Awesome comic, gonna read more.

I agree 100%. Paris Hilton comes to mind also.

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

Well, Paris Hilton is rich, and she's blonde. Therefore, she's the perfect role model. The reason these people are idolized isn't just because some of them posess genuine talent, but because they seem to fit in with the average persons' image of the ideal male or female. We're conditioned at a young age to favor looks over smarts by the media and our peers, and even in school most people feel content just to follow the crowd. Of course, consumerism plays a big role as well. Word.

[PerpetualBurn]

Cheers man. Yeah, best plot for a game, ever. I like this, I'm probably gonna spend the night reading them:

Leo Gold: "Don’t believe me? It’s all in the numbers. For a hundred years, there’s been a conspiracy of plutocrats against ordinary people."
JC Denton: "Do you have a single fact to back that up?"
Leo Gold: "Number one: In 1945, corporations paid 50 percent of federal taxes. Now they pay about 5 percent. Number two: in 1900, 90 percent of Americans were self-employed; now it’s about two percent."
JC Denton: "So?"
Leo Gold: "It’s called consolidation. Strengthen governments and corporations, weaken individuals. With taxes, this can be done imperceptibly over time."

You can't fight ideas with bullets.

[coheneran]

Well, Paris Hilton is rich, and she's blonde. Therefore, she's the perfect role model.

I don't understand the attraction. She's the ugliest pron star I ever did see, and I have seen some rough pron. She's got this bug-eyed plasticky look.

[coheneran]

You can't fight ideas with bullets.

Wellllll, if you kill the originators...

[thedeadwalk!]

...you spark intrigue in others.

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

I don't understand the attraction. She's the ugliest pron star I ever did see, and I have seen some rough pron. She's got this bug-eyed plasticky look.

Indeed, and as a result, enter the next variable. While it is undeniable that the thing is a wretched beast spawned in the blood spewing bowels of Hell, she is still rich as hell, and blonde. If you add to this a pseudo-intellectual catchphrase such as "That's hot", and a crappy reality TV show, you have a formula for success, thus rendering millions of little girls around the country, nay, the world hypnotized. Dawg.

["Freshly Baked"]

I dont think america has a culture.

Americana, what is that?

Eating apple pie, going to a baseball game, having a picnic?

We really don't have a culture here other than Wasting resources, Emulating others, and Cheap skating our way through ****.

I'm not trying to complain, because I'm no better, I'm a lazy American and I wouldn't want it any other way. Im 15-20 pounds overweight, I watch a lot of tv, sleep a lot of hours, and work my minimum wage job. I'm a typical american and thats fine with me.

And as for why people like Paris hilton.....



... You got me I have no ****ing clue

[Frankie]

TBH Paris Hilton is an heir to massive fortune. Why shes famous is really beyond me. As for Chantelle. Don't get me started. The girl that preston passed over for her was a lot prettier IMO.

[Steerpike]

I dont think america has a culture.

Americana, what is that?

Eating apple pie, going to a baseball game, having a picnic?

So you're pretty much buying into everyone else's stereotypes of us?

Neil Gaiman brought up an interesting point in his novel "American Gods" that America is the only country looking for a true identity. We are the only country that is still arguing over it's "heart and soul."

But that doesn't mean that there isn't an American culture. What about musicians like Wes Montgomery, Johnny Cash, Warren Zevon, and John Coltrane? Wouldn't it be fair to say that rockabilly, and arguably the start of rock and roll as we know it is American? And how about the fact that Americans invented television and popularized animation as entertainment and art. Robert Flaherty, originally born in New England, was the father of the documentary. Ever been to a New England clam bake?

The fact is that real Americana is buried under a lot of apathy and stereotypes. And if you accept that, you're only allowing those myths to be perpetuated by living up to them.

[PerpetualBurn]

Obviously it's harder to find a stricter identity of a country that's got history of a few hundred years compared to one of tracked back for 1000+ but it's stupid to say that any established country has no culture.

As Steerpike said, the Delta blues and Jazz movements of America are culturally significant.

Just because the country doesn't have legends about St. George killing dragons, doesn't mean its devoid of culture.

[ATC]

I dont think america has a culture.

Americana, what is that?

Eating apple pie, going to a baseball game, having a picnic?

We really don't have a culture here other than Wasting resources, Emulating others, and Cheap skating our way through ****.

Culture? America has a culture, with a value greater than most cultures that came before it, whichever one you idolize - ancient Greece, India, Mayan, Nazi Germany, whatever. Having an original language, or an exclusive dance form or script is not what makes a culture. There is a vast amount of knowledge and its accompanying values that Americans share, just as almost every country today. And all cultures today have access to most that came before them. That's what a culture is, not a few ruins scattered someplace.
Almost all humans everywhere have tried their damnedest to make things easier for themselves. That now you're now able to is irrelevant.

[TojesDolan]

So you're pretty much buying into everyone else's stereotypes of us?

...

The fact is that real Americana is buried under a lot of apathy and stereotypes.

We are all clearly forgetting that no matter where you live, no matter how cultured you think you are, you are going to be drawn into the stereotypes of cultures you don't know, but merely listen about.

Take your impressions of places you've never been to, but you have an "idea" of what they are, and there you go. Ignorance at it's best, because omst people clearly base judgments in what they think things are like, because they think they know about the subject.

An example to clear the fog a bit: Imagine France. What do you see? Louvre? criossants? Eiffel tower? Coffee and long walks in the evening with a lovely companion? Oh sure, that's all that France consists of. We've built ourselves such image, but (unless you've been there, please correct me if wrong) we've most probably never been there, and we create this image through what we see on television and magazines.

Same with Middle-eastern, same with India, same with Mexico, same with every nation in the world. We create images on what we're told things are, without based fundaments of such conclusions.

[Phaedra]

Neil Gaiman brought up an interesting point in his novel "American Gods" that America is the only country looking for a true identity. We are the only country that is still arguing over it's "heart and soul."
Please, before reading this post, I must make it clear that I do not intend any offense to this Neil Gaiman character. Clearly for a man to make such a claim, of the 243 recognised countries on this planet, to signal out one as the only country still searching for a true identity: he must truly be an expert of the field.

However to recognise his point, and the truth of it, we must search the globe to see whether there is or is not another country still looking for its true identity. Rather than beginning a tedious investigation of each country, perhaps we should first define the nature of the matter.

Now, unless Neil Gaiman's words have been twisted beyond their meaning, we can take his point to say "America has not found its identity, every other country has."
What comes into question is whether it is such a black and white case, whereby you have found your identity, or you have not. So my first question is, would you say that countries could have possibly found certain characteristics of their identity but not all?

If there is indeed a gray between the black (not found) and white (found), whereby some countries have found some characteristics of themselves, but not all. Then surely America is seperate from both the gray and the black, as they are the only country to have not found their identity, or any parts of it. If this was not the case, and America had found parts of its identity, then Gaiman's statement would have to read:
"America is one of multiple countries still looking for their true identity."
But as we can see, it isn't. So for now, we must continue to stick to his original meaning.

As such, we must take Gaiman's statement in a black and white world, where every other country has found its identity and America hasn't.

If we are to find a country that has not yet found its identity, then surely the first place of exploration must be in countries formed after the United States of America. Being well versed in the history of New Zealand, I think it appropriate we start there. Surely, with so many similarities between the two countries, New Zealand will provide an answer.

Much like America, New Zealand was inhabited long before the arrival of Europeans. And much like America, the natives culture was largely wiped out and pushed aside. Today, both native cultures are minorities in their own country. Although their history in each country may be important, it is clear that neither represents the true identity of the two countries in the modern day. Both countries have largely multicultural populations, with a European/White dominance of about 70% of the population.

In the past, many New Zealanders have adopted the identity of a farming nation, a nation of "Do it yourself" innovative rural farmers. However now with a dominant amount of people living in large cities and towns, this image is clearly not adequate. Much of our culture comes from America and Britain, e.g language, music, movies, TV, fashion etc. New Zealand has drawn from so many cultures, that its identity is still coming together. There is no clear picture of what a New Zealander is, nor what New Zealands identity is. New Zealand is a country of about 4 million, situated in the South Pacific. Whilst the USA is a country of about 300 million, situated inbetween Canada and Mexico. In that sense, both countries have their own clear identity. Yet in reference to Gaiman's sense of identity, neither have truly found it, and many people in both countries argue about their respective country's identity.

It has thus become clear to me that Gaiman's ignorance shines through in that statement; clearly not having done a proper study of each country to find out whether the U.S.A is truly the only country to not have found its own identity. And with complete disregard to my country's lack of identity, I take his statement with great offense.

[sketchyjoe]

I'm happy with the idea that celebrity is the new religion as long as we get to crucify Paris Hilton.

[Angry Balled Fists!]

The problem in Britain is the "celebrities" who are famous for being on Big Brother, or is the daughter of someone famous or becasue they're rich etc.

Musicians/Actors are fine but the people who become celebrities for nothing, is bad.

[23-inch dude]

And maybe America lacks heroes in the same way it lacks a long history?
I don't know, we in Europe have like a very lenghty history, filled with heroes, legends and stuff...
I say maybe, because I'm not sure if it has an influence on the celebrity obsessed culture

[23-inch dude]

And to follow up on phaedra concerning Identity, I don't think America is the only country.
I also think that you can't fully find it, it's a continious search that will never end.

[Mr. Ron]

And maybe America lacks heroes in the same way it lacks a long history?
I don't know, we in Europe have like a very lenghty history, filled with heroes, legends and stuff...
I say maybe, because I'm not sure if it has an influence on the celebrity obsessed culture
Ummm....we do too?

[23-inch dude]

yes but you history doesn't go as way back as european or other history.
Our is longer, more filled with stories, and stuff...
we can relate to germanic tribes and their heroes, or kings of old, or crusaders, or philosophers from ancient greece...

[The_Passenger]

23-inch dude, I don't think that what you're saying is really true. Celebrity obsession is pretty common in England, at least. Also, you never hear anyone saying that they were inspired by some historical figure.

[Mr. Ron]

yes but you history doesn't go as way back as european or other history.
Our is longer, more filled with stories, and stuff...
we can relate to germanic tribes and their heroes, or kings of old, or crusaders, or philosophers from ancient greece...
Yeah, your history is longer, but the Americas have plenty of legends and heros.

[PerpetualBurn]

Ummm....we do too?

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.

[Mr. Ron]

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.
Well, thats obviously becuase we're only a couple hundred years old as a civilization.

[Chrysostom]

This is a great subject for a thread. Well done BDR. :thumb:

I hate this obsession with celebrities that the Western world has developed. These people are nothing, they do nothing remotely important and still they're worshipped as if they're gods. It's totally ridiculous. That comic strip that Steerpike posted hits the nail on the head.

It's the media's fault for painting a picture of these people as worthwhile examples of the human race. Er, NO. It's a sad reflection on our society that so many people are interested in these dull people we call celebrities. It's almost as if ordinary folks have lives they hate and are attemtpting to live vicariously via celebrity magazines. The real stars are the doctors, scientists etc, people who actually get important things done.

[Mr. Ron]

To get on the subject, I hate celebrities of all kinds except a few that are decent.


People look up to them as dieties, when really all they are, are human failures.

[PerpetualBurn]

Well, thats obviously becuase we're only a couple hundred years old as a civilization.

Isn't that the point?

[Mr. Ron]

Isn't that the point?
Yeah, I just argued in a circle didn't I? :p

[PerpetualBurn]

Haha. I was thinking it was me that was off the mark when I replied.

[23-inch dude]

Well, I said that I'm not sure if the lack of history has any influence on it.
Celeberty, the new religion...

[Atomic Rain]

Well, I said that I'm not sure if the lack of history has any influence on it.
Celeberty, the new religion...

not really.

For one, it requires no faith

For two, it...




...no. I do not need to argue this.

[PerpetualBurn]

In fact, thinking about it, last year I did a debate in a school assembly about whether celebrities were good role-models. I was arguing that they aren't, thankfully.

It was great fun as my debate style was pretty much as it can be on here, and when it was opened to questions from the audience it turned into me against the entirety of the A-level students.

[Chrysostom]

when it was opened to questions from the audience it turned into me against the entirety of the A-level students.

:thumb:

[Steerpike]

We are all clearly forgetting that no matter where you live, no matter how cultured you think you are, you are going to be drawn into the stereotypes of cultures you don't know, but merely listen about.

I'm not saying people don't stereotype. But to buy into the stereotypes of your own country sohws laziness and ignorance. The power to dispell the stereotypes is right at your fingertips.

It has thus become clear to me that Gaiman's ignorance shines through in that statement; clearly not having done a proper study of each country to find out whether the U.S.A is truly the only country to not have found its own identity. And with complete disregard to my country's lack of identity, I take his statement with great offense.

It would help you greatly to read the novel before getting offended.

[Cain]

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.

We have Paul Bunyan and his big blue ox.

[Reaganista]

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.
yeah it does
folk-heroes are amerikan mythology

most of them killed natives

[Mr. Ron]

We have Paul Bunyan and his big blue ox.
\m/

[TojesDolan]

I'm not saying people don't stereotype. But to buy into the stereotypes of your own country sohws laziness and ignorance. The power to dispell the stereotypes is right at your fingertips.

Oh sure, that's the biggest thing to do actually: Break stereotypes.

That's why I try to sleep in a bed instead of under cacti, I try to keep myself away from tequila and don't use a large hat all the time, eat burritos and tacos as my daily obliged diet, have a horrible large mustache and above all, be completely uncultured and ignorant of everything going on around me.

But that's really hindering me a bunch lately. <_<

[Atomic Rain]

Oh sure, that's the biggest thing to do actually: Break stereotypes.

That's why I try to sleep in a bed instead of under cacti, I try to keep myself away from tequila and don't use a large hat all the time, eat burritos and tacos as my daily obliged diet, have a horrible large mustache and above all, be completely uncultured and ignorant of everything going on around me.

But that's really hindering me a bunch lately. <_<

You might want to reconsider the moustache.

[Phaedra]

It would help you greatly to read the novel before getting offended.
Clearly those are his words, in which case I should feel offended by them. Or you are not accurately representing his words to us, in which cash I am offended by you!

Now which is it my American friend, should I shoot the messenger, I should I continue to despise this author you quote so directly?

[Steerpike]

Clearly those are his words, in which case I should feel offended by them. Or you are not accurately representing his words to us, in which cash I am offended by you!

Now which is it my American friend, should I shoot the messenger, I should I continue to despise this author you quote so directly?

How about door #3: you take the stick out of your *** and read the damn book instead of going off on a tirade like an angry tottler.

Jesus bleeding Christ on a cross, what is with people like you? You get offended by anything.

Yes, I could have provided better context. But maybe you should actually read the book yourself and make an informed decision before having your little episode. Now, if all you want is to be angry at somebody, don't bother talking to me because I'm in too good of a mood to hear it. Simply put: grow up or shut up.

[TojesDolan]

You might want to reconsider the moustache.
I don't really get the big mustache. =[

Just this two lines of hair above each lip. :-|

[Atomic Rain]

I don't really get the big mustache. =[

Just this two lines of hair above each lip. :-|

you're not trying hard enough.

[Smokey D]

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.

But most Americans can readily associate with European folk heroes, particuarly those of English or Greco-Roman origin.

[Iskandar]

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.
They have plenty of Native mythology ... or they did.

That is America's mythology (pioneer folk tales don't really count as they're relatively recent and reflect more European culture than American).

[Steerpike]

They have plenty of Native mythology ... or they did.

That is America's mythology (pioneer folk tales don't really count as they're relatively recent and reflect more European culture than American).

What about the tales of Washington Irving? His stories have become a huge part of American legend and storytelling tradition.

America may not have King Arthur, Robin Hood, Chu'Cullain, or Gilgamesh, nor do we have Shangri-La or Brigadoon. But America is filled with all manner of legends and mythology.

[Riva]

What about the tales of Washington Irving? His stories have become a huge part of American legend and storytelling tradition.

America may not have King Arthur, Robin Hood, Chu'Cullain, or Gilgamesh, nor do we have Shangri-La or Brigadoon. But America is filled with all manner of legends and mythology.

I've never seen Cuchullain spelt like that... it's odd. Same as how people make Fionn MacCumal sound a whole lot more effeminate by calling him Finn MacCool.

[Steerpike]

I've never seen Cuchullain spelt like that... it's odd. Same as how people make Fionn MacCumal sound a whole lot more effeminate by calling him Finn MacCool.

My bad. I got the "ch" mixed up. I have seen it just as often with the apostrophe as not, though. I'm better with Germanic than with Gaelic or Romantic.

[Reaganista]

That is America's mythology (pioneer folk tales don't really count as they're relatively recent and reflect more European culture than American).
that's idiotic

[tele_more]

Why is America such a celebrity obsessed culture? Or, do you somehow feel it is not. And, do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing?
Hank is lame.


Lame.

[Iskandar]

that's idiotic
Stop repressing indigenous culture, you fasKist. :p

[Reaganista]

no the part where you said amerikan pioneer culture was european was what I was talking about

[thedeadwalk!]

America doesn't really have myths in the same way as Robin Hood, King Arthur or anything.
Paul Bunyon and John Henry...um, Sasquatch?

EDIT: Well, Cain beat me to the Bunyon.

[TojesDolan]

The ol' western stories don't count for you? The native american stories?

Just because McDonalds and Coca Cola-driven-people covered most of the "folklore" in the U.S. Doesn't mean necessarily there's no good folklore.

Oh yeah, New Orleans has it's fair share of folklore.

[Phaedra]

How about door #3: you take the stick out of your *** and read the damn book instead of going off on a tirade like an angry tottler.

Jesus bleeding Christ on a cross, what is with people like you? You get offended by anything.
You misinterpret theatrical dramatics with true sentiment.

Yes, I could have provided better context. But maybe you should actually read the book yourself and make an informed decision before having your little episode. Now, if all you want is to be angry at somebody, don't bother talking to me because I'm in too good of a mood to hear it. Simply put: grow up or shut up.
I was merely proving wrong a ridiculously false statement. I have no intention of reading such a book. I just did what every good countryman should do, and that was to stand up for my country, and to be noticed, especially for a nation as small as New Zealand. Clearly you have taken my argument personally and as such, I offer my condolences. It was never my intention to degrade an already injured man.

As for Neil Gaiman, I am skeptical.

[Steerpike]

You misinterpret theatrical dramatics with true sentiment.

Being dramatic isn't much of an improvement.

I was merely proving wrong a ridiculously false statement. I have no intention of reading such a book. I just did what every good countryman should do, and that was to stand up for my country, and to be noticed, especially for a nation as small as New Zealand.

There's a fine line between patriotism and blind nationalism.

Clearly you have taken my argument personally and as such, I offer my condolences. It was never my intention to degrade an already injured man.

I didn't take it personally. But it did greatly aggravate me. I don't suffer either fools or foolish behavior. To say that because you take issue with one statement you refuse to actually go to the source yourself as if to make some sort of stand is exceptionally foolish.

If there is even a sliver of doubt, you go to the source and seek the truth yourself. You don't just write it off.

As for Neil Gaiman, I am skeptical.

A real skeptic demands to be proven wrong. I have already told you the best way to go about that: read the book yourself. If you can't even walk into a bookstore and go through the first few chapters to get an idea of the sort of themes Gaiman was trying to talk about in "American Gods" then I'm not interested in having this conversation with you.

The whole idea I quoted was that America is a nation in which its own people are actively arguing and fighting over its "heart and soul." And it is perhaps the only one still doing so. It's a young country insecure in its identity, and every distinct region is putting forth their arguments as to why they think they embody what America is really about.

But Gaiman said it better in metaphor and the context of his storytelling than I could in such explicit language.

EDIT: As an aside, don't you see it as even a little anal that you refuse to read a book when you don't know what the plot is or who the author is? It reminds me of all those religious nuts who protested "The DaVinci Code" despite the fact that they neither read the book nor saw the movie.

[Against Miik!]

At least look it up on Wikipedia. I did and it looks interesting. You can't claim to be an intelligent person if you don't even research other points of view and immediately shut them down even if you know nothing about them. Like Steerpike said with The DaVinci Code, thats why I hate religous zealots.

[Steerpike]

I actually believe that people should read books, watch movies, etc that have ideas you disagree with or have themes you find offensive.

Otherwise, you're very poorly equipped to defend your own stance down the road when a smarter person who took in as much as they could comes and disgrees with you.

[Phaedra]

Well clearly my theatrics have rubbed you a wrong way, so let me henceforth state things bluntly.

There's a fine line between patriotism and blind nationalism.
You quoted Neil Gaiman who said "America is the only country who hasn't found their true identity." I coming from New Zealand know New Zealand hasn't found its identity, and continues to search for it. My response is a clear answer to what you said he believes, or at least has theorized. So by your representation, he is clearly wrong.

And how does blind nationalism even factor into this? I really do think your comment is a blind accusation. I merely stated New Zealand has not found its identity, much like America apparently hasn't. If somebody says "America is the only country who hasn't found its true identity," and I know another country that hasn't found its identity either. Then surely I should post about that country, and how it has not found its true identity. If I did not, then it would be letting false information pass, and as decent humans we should all be in pursuit of truth in life.

I didn't take it personally.
Well I am glad you didn't then.
If there is even a sliver of doubt, you go to the source and seek the truth yourself. You don't just write it off.
You stated it in a way that was black and white, I answered it in black and white. New Zealand proved the way you said it wrong. I see no reason to pursue the matter, as I do not hold the matter with high regard. As I said earlier, I am skeptical of this Neil Gaiman character, however I would not completely disregard any points he makes. I just don't see any reason to pursue his true definition, when all I wanted was to prove your representation
of his point wrong. Which I did, with New Zealand.

I have already told you the best way to go about that: read the book yourself. If you can't even walk into a bookstore and go through the first few chapters to get an idea of the sort of themes Gaiman was trying to talk about in "American Gods" then I'm not interested in having this conversation with you.
Well clearly if you write a haphazard representation of his ideas, and get offended when I Socraticly prove you wrong, then I'm not interested in having this conversation with you.

The whole idea I quoted was that America is a nation in which its own people are actively arguing and fighting over its "heart and soul." And it is perhaps the only one still doing so. It's a young country insecure in its identity, and every distinct region is putting forth their arguments as to why they think they embody what America is really about.
And to all those points, all I have to say is so is New Zealand. I find it funny that in all your agument, you haven't mentioned New Zealand once. When it was clearly my point of argument. I accept your lack of identity in America, so please just accept that New Zealand has not found its identity either.

But Gaiman said it better in metaphor and the context of his storytelling than I could in such explicit language.
I'm sure he did. But in essence I was proving your representation of his point wrong, and not his true point (whatever it may be). So with that I close my case.

EDIT: As an aside, don't you see it as even a little anal that you refuse to read a book when you don't know what the plot is or who the author is? It reminds me of all those religious nuts who protested "The DaVinci Code" despite the fact that they neither read the book nor saw the movie.
Quite possibly, but please refer back to my above points.

I actually believe that people should read books, watch movies, etc that have ideas you disagree with or have themes you find offensive.
If a woman says a lipstick looks nice on her, and I disagree. I shant be looking in depth into lipsticks and conducting detailed surveys to find out whether it is a bad colour for her. If I felt as passionately about this as I did about music or film, then I would pursue the issue more actively.

Otherwise, you're very poorly equipped to defend your own stance down the road when a smarter person who took in as much as they could comes and disgrees with you.
Oh, then I clearly must abdictate to you, oh wise one. Seriously though, LOL. Regardless of who is closer to truth in this little verbal spa (I figure that'd be a nice way to calm things down), you PNWI posters crack me up sometimes.

[Steerpike]

If you were refuting my poor choice of words, then why did you act is if it was Neil Gaiman himself who pissed you off? Because that's the message I got from your posts.

[Phaedra]

Partly theatrics, but also to progress the argument further without dealing with (somewhat pointless) intricacies, so that I could clearly prove that New Zealand goes against the grain of the idea, as represented by you.

I admit to my mistakes, and that could be taken as a mistake on my part. So with that, I think we can conclude this as an argument full of mistakes, and one that lead us no closer to the truth. However, it did serve a point, and that was to promote the country of New Zealand as it fights for a definition of its "heart and soul."

For more information on New Zealand and tourism within New Zealand, please visit http://www.newzealand.com/travel

[Against Miik!]

For more information on New Zealand and tourism within New Zealand, please visit http://www.newzealand.com/travel

lol

[Steerpike]

I still recommend the book, if for no other reason than sheer entertainment. It provides a very unique look into not only the nature of cultural indentity, but also the concept of divinity, worship, whether or not ideas truly are immortal, and so forth. It showcases a clash of Romanticism versus Futurism, the old versus the new.

If you want to discuss semantics, that's not really the point I was trying to achieve. I could have made my meaning more explicit perhaps, but I never intended for their to be an argument on whether or not America is alone in the on-going culture war to determine what its "spirit" is about.

Still, "American Gods" is relevant to the discussion of celebrity worship as it is a modern fantasy about why people do worship. For those not familiar with the book, it's a story about a man named Shadow who loses his family while he's in prison. After getting out, he's given a job as a travelling companion by a very old and eerily insightful man who simply identifies himself as Mr. Wednesday. As time goes on, Shadow learns that he's becoming entangled in a swiftly brewing war between the gods of old and the gods of the modern world.

[goingunderground]

UK sucks. Dumb women who are sluts are awarded fame, like the bitch chantelle, or jade. Smart women are thrown in the corner and made to work, but get no credit, because some selfish slut of a "celebrity" will just market the cure/product the smart woman has made, and get all the money.

And then there are footballers. Ohhh god, don't get me started on them. More violence off pitch than off pitch. They're all chavs who can't keep a wife for more than 2 months, with the odd exception.

Does it honestly bother you that much? If 'smart women' got all the credit (see also; fame/celebrity status) then would that be alright?

I disagree with the extent to which people study celebrity culture, but it ultimately doesn't affect me. Besides, if everyone became intellectual and dabbled in politics, philosophy etc, then most people on here would hate it. You're happy looking down on 'dumb' people.

Your statement about footballers is ridiculous :p

[Lupus]

The majority of the West is celebrity obsessed. It used to piss me off but now I just sit back and watch. People wanna be stupid, that's fine, it doesnt hurt me.

[Whale and Wasp]

i think its sort of a girl thing, i dunno...>_> even though i dont really care about celebrities theres this unwanted little twinge of curiosity i get about the celebrity news/rumors

[Pint of stella]

Here in the UK we have a celeb obsessed culture. It really does make me sick. People are obsessed with some of the most un-talented people who show no intelligence. I blame institutes like MTV which brainwash people with sugar-coated celebrity ****. I cant believe people find crap like that entertaining. There is no creativity at all.

[Iskandar]

no the part where you said amerikan pioneer culture was european was what I was talking about
Well, the pioneers were European immigrants who tried their best to retain a European way of life instead of assimilating, with their European cultures, religious beliefs and languages.

Indigenous Americans all the way!

[Riva]

Well, the pioneers were European immigrants who tried their best to retain a European way of life instead of assimilating, with their European cultures, religious beliefs and languages.

Indigenous Americans all the way!

I thought your nation was founded by Puritans who wanted to practice their non-European ways in peace.

[Iskandar]

I thought your nation was founded by Puritans who wanted to practice their non-European ways in peace.
It's not my nation, but I'll respond.

The beliefs of the Puritans weren't non-European. They simply weren't in accordance with the beliefs of most Christian sects. They were still Christians; Christianity was the religion of Europe, not North America.

Either way, not nearly all of the settlers in America's history were Puritans.

[Frankie]

I actually believe that people should read books, watch movies, etc that have ideas you disagree with or have themes you find offensive.

Otherwise, you're very poorly equipped to defend your own stance down the road when a smarter person who took in as much as they could comes and disgrees with you.

Speaking of which I recently watched that 9/11 movie on google video, and although I thought it was bollocks it did raise a lot on interesting points. Fair enough some of its other 'evidence' was misquoted and can be explained. Still remains I feel I have both sides of that stroy.