Do Metal Users Rate All Their Albums Higher?

[mx]

Just glancing at the top ranked albums for this year, we see really only 1 non metal band - RHCP. Joe Satriani is iffy. But past #1 and #2:

Tool
10,000 Days

Devin Townsend
Synchestra

DragonForce
Inhuman Rampage

Falkenbach
Heralding - The Fireblade

Mastodon
The Workhorse Chronicles 2000-2005 (DVD)

Psycroptic
Symbols of Failure

Ihsahn
The Adversary

In Flames
Come Clarity



Hmm... either the metal albums this year are amazing or most of the users are handing out top ratings too easily.

[Storm In A Teacup]

Well, you must ask yourself if any there has been a release of anything great that is also very popular. In this case, 2006 hasn't been the greatest year for great music releases that also gain a lot of attention. Metal seems to be a large factor this year even though the only 'metal' thing I've bought from 2006 is "Come Clarity" and that actually is really good.

I'm sure Christina Agu's double album will reach the top spot in no time once it's released though. :thumb:

[Jom]

R&M is without a shadow of a doubt the most popular genre-related forum on MX, so that doesn't surprise me at all. A lot of R&M regulars post actively on Sputnikmusic, and there is quite a bit of discussion in the R&M community thread (hay guys can you read my review and tell me if it's good lol) about the reviews site, and it gets a lot of traffic from the R&M crowd as a result.

[mx]

Oh, I know Metal is the most popular genre on Sputnik, that's easy to see from the traffic. But even if there is a lot of traffic, it doesn't necessarily mean that all the albums will be rated high...

[Damrod]

Unfortunately 'metalheads' tend to be very bi-polar. Either it sucks arse and is a 1/5, or rules all stuff in existence and goes 5/5. At least that's the impression I get.

I mean, 3 of 4 people I banned in the last ten days were people with Metal as their main piece of pie, because they acted moronic. Not that all metalheads are morons, but quite a few (especially young ones) are really narrow minded.

[superpeer]

Yeah, must be, Dragonforce sucks.

Seriously though, it is true that they seem to see things more black and white, either very bad or very good. But what can you do?

[Jom]

Unfortunately 'metalheads' tend to be very bi-polar. Either it sucks arse and is a 1/5, or rules all stuff in existence and goes 5/5. At least that's the impression I get.

I mean, 3 of 4 people I banned in the last ten days were people with Metal as their main piece of pie, because they acted moronic. Not that all metalheads are morons, but quite a few (especially young ones) are really narrow minded.

Hahaha, I won't contest this at all. Both instances are quite accurate.

EDIT: Jelle would know as well - he mods there.
Oh, I know Metal is the most popular genre on Sputnik, that's easy to see from the traffic. But even if there is a lot of traffic, it doesn't necessarily mean that all the albums will be rated high...

Oh, I understand, J-dawg, the point I was trying to make is that a lot of big-name artists in the R&M world released (or are releasing) albums this year; additionally, the increased traffic from R&M equates to those users voting more often than those in punk or alt/indie or other music.

If Radiohead releases an album this year, it will very likely make the top ten list on the main page just because of how huge Radiohead is - on par with the RHCPs, the Tools, and so on. Tons of fanboy votes, for sure, haha.

But, the more traffic from a specific forum you get, the greater the odds that those users will be voting on albums. And, as Damrod pointed out, some of them can be quite fanatical.

Take for example the guy that rated all of In Flames's and [insert other metal band names here]'s albums 5/5 but rated 50 Cent, Britney Spears, and Simple Plan 1/5.

The pop and hip-hop genres will, for the most part, be at a HUGE disadvantage and accordingly never make the main page.

Paris Hilton's forthcoming album could blow people away with a 5/5 from the critics, but there will nevertheless be many users who will be like 'Paris Hilton is a skinny slut who should not be making music 1/5 lol.'

[JohnXDoe]

I agree with Damrod on this to some extent. And it is irritating at times. You also see this with the Zeppelin reviews, where terms like "guitar god" and "greatest riff ever" and "best song ever" are randomly tossed around. And of course Zep is looked upon as the grandpa's of metal by many.

A lot of metal fans simply think metal is the begin all and end all of rock n roll. They have tunnel vision and rarely look outside the genres narrow parameters. I've seen Iron Maiden albums with ratings of 5. IMHO Iron Maiden has never come close to a 5 star album. Ever.

So yeah, it's there. And it's obvious abuse of the ratings system. But this being a "rate your music" site, I suppose it has to be lived with. Darn it....

[Hep Kat]

Unfortunately 'metalheads' tend to be very bi-polar. Either it sucks arse and is a 1/5, or rules all stuff in existence and goes 5/5. At least that's the impression I get.


Yep. Exactly right. Metalheads generally tend to find little middle ground.

I agree with Damrod on this to some extent. And it is irritating at times. You also see this with the Zeppelin rankings, where terms like "guitar god" and "greatest riff ever" and "best song ever" are tossed around. And of course Zep is looked upon as the grandpa's of metal by many.

A lot of meat fans simply think metal is the begin all and end all od rock n roll. They have tunnel vision and rarely look outside the genres norrow paramiters. I've seen Iron Maiden albums with ratings of 5. IMHO Iron Maiden has never come close to a 5 star album. Ever.

So yeah, it's there. And it's ovious abuse of the ratings system. But this being a "rate your music" site, I suppose it has to be lived with. Darn it....

I think Black Sabbath outweigh Zeppelin in the grandfather respect :p

Otherwise, you're basically right. However, it's not an abuse of the rating system. If people genuinally believe that those albums are good, then they'll rate them highly. That's really all there is to it.

[Cravinov13]

I think it's just cause metal is getting more and more popular every year.

[JohnXDoe]

I think it's just cause metal is getting more and more popular every year.
I state my case. :p

[Storm In A Teacup]

Too bad ShadowsFallen doesn't come around as much anymore. He was the coolest and fairest metalhead ever.

[Hep Kat]

I think it's just cause metal is getting more and more popular every year.

That's also true. Metal has reinvented itself in the last few years. Guitar solos are coming back, veteran bands are returning to their roots, metal is getting more airtime...it's really quite the sensation. The entire genre has improved immensely in the last 3-4 years.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I think most people rate all their albums too high.

[JohnXDoe]

I think Black Sabbath outweigh Zeppelin in the grandfather respect :p

Otherwise, you're basically right. However, it's not an abuse of the rating system. If people genuinally believe that those albums are good, then they'll rate them highly. That's really all there is to it.
Yes, I stand corrected about the abuse. We all rate the albums. I guess I meant the ratings system loses value and leverage by some albums being "overrated" by reviewers. And this happens a lot in the metal genre. But we're all amatuers here, so....

And don't quote me before I have fixed my typo's....:mad:

[Thor]

This does seem to be a bit of a problem. I've rated a few of those metal albums at a rather high rating, but the rest I either haven't bothered with or just given them a normal rating of about a 3.5 or 3.

I rated Tool, Dragonforce, and Ihsahn high because, well, they're really good albums.

[JohnXDoe]

That's also true. Metal has reinvented itself in the last few years. Guitar solos are coming back, veteran bands are returning to their roots, metal is getting more airtime...it's really quite the sensation. The entire genre has improved immensely in the last 3-4 years.
But that shouldn't have a bearing on how high albums are rated. And I don't think that's necessarily the case, anyway. Metal is a constant. It's always here. I certainly don't think it's creating a "sensation" lately. Not by a long shot.

[Hep Kat]

Yes, I stand corrected about the abuse. We all rate the albums. I guess I meant the ratings system loses value and leverage by some albums being "overrated" by reviewers. And this happens a lot in the metal genre. But we're all amatuers here, so....

And don't quote me before I have fixed my typo's....:mad:

Exactly. And as amatuers, we can't all be totally objectional and un-biased. Hell, even pro reviewers/critics aren't in most cases. It's human nature.


And don't make typo's so I won't have to quote them, nub :mad:

But that shouldn't have a bearing on how high albums are rated. And I don't think that's necessarily the case, anyway. Metal is a constant. It's always here. I certainly don't think it's creating a "sensation" lately. Not by a long shot.

I know it shouldn't, but it does.

[Thor]

Too bad ShadowsFallen doesn't come around as much anymore. He was the coolest and fairest metalhead ever.
You're probably right. I hope he comes back though.

Besides him, I'd probably say that I'm the other leading member in the metal genre at spunik.

[mx]

And me of course

[Jom]

ITT: Jom toots his own horn

EDIT: Owned by a split-second! :upset:

[Dave de Sylvia]

ITT: Jom's horn deflates

[Jom]

Zing!

This would have been more effective if I was still able to edit others' posts, hahaha.

[Storm In A Teacup]

You're probably right. I hope he comes back though.

Besides him, I'd probably say that I'm the other leading member in the metal genre at spunik.

Yeah, I'd say so and at least the smartest metal person from Sputnik. :p

[superpeer]

Yeah, I'd say so and at least the smartest metal person from Sputnik. :p

Hey, hey, I have a couple of metal reviews and I'm considerably smarter than Thor. :smoke:

[Dave de Sylvia]

Jelle's smarter than almost half of the people five years his junior.

[superpeer]

Jelle's smarter than almost half of the people five years his junior.

:cool:


And most Irish people.

[masada]

You guys should check out the post-rock section and all of the pant wetters there.

[DFelon204409]

This has been common knowledge for a while mx.

[Thor]

Hey, hey, I have a couple of metal reviews and I'm considerably smarter than Thor. :smoke:
Nice to see I get lots of support around here. But I won't argue...you're a fantastic reviewer and user in general.

[Neoteric]

Hey, hey, I have a couple of metal reviews and I'm considerably smarter than Thor. :smoke:
I used to review billions of metal....

[Hep Kat]

I used to review billions of metal....

We owe all that brilliant Megadeth work to you, among many other things.

[Iluvatar]

I don't think I've ever reviewed a metal album, and it would be a mess if I tried...good on Thor and Frogs and ShadowsFallen and lately Txus for all their hard work and dedication. Except for the metalcore reviews. Ick.

[Hep Kat]

I reviewed a Godsmack EP which was technically metal. I don't count that, though.


All the metal I've wanted to do has already been done quite handily.

[Storm In A Teacup]

One out of ten reviews of mine are metal...I think. So I guess I've done about eight metal reviews, maybe more. Actually, I'm not sure. :p

[pixiesfanyo]

ShadowsFallen isn't that good.

[DFelon204409]

ShadowsFallen isn't that good.

1, 2, 3, 4, ..., n

[niobium]

But that shouldn't have a bearing on how high albums are rated. And I don't think that's necessarily the case, anyway. Metal is a constant. It's always here. I certainly don't think it's creating a "sensation" lately. Not by a long shot.We have the internet to thank for that.

[Storm In A Teacup]

ShadowsFallen isn't that good.

Yeah, those seventy-three reviews he's turned in are all crap, which is why he's one of the top ranked people on the site. Then the whole bunch of news he turned in when he was a regular were all bull**** as well. Let's not forget the fact that he barely ever spammed on either Sputnikmusic or Musicianforums and that he knew his genres. God, what a horrible user.

[Thor]

ShadowsFallen isn't that good.
Care to back that up? I think he's a great user.

[pulseczar]

Yeah, those seventy-three reviews he's turned in are all crap, which is why he's one of the top ranked people on the site. Then the whole bunch of news he turned in when he was a regular were all bull**** as well. Let's not forget the fact that he barely ever spammed on either Sputnikmusic or Musicianforums and that he knew his genres. God, what a horrible user.
He said "isn't that good" not "terrible".

[Iluvatar]

So, those metal people sure do rate their albums high, eh?

[Dave de Sylvia]

This wouldn't have happened if ShadowsFallen was here :(

[superpeer]

Nice to see I get lots of support around here. But I won't argue...you're a fantastic reviewer and user in general.

Haha, I was joking, dude. ;)

[DFelon204409]

Care to back that up? I think he's a great user.

Everybody thinks he's great. He's a crowd pleaser but all he does is review metal very narrowly. Really kneejerk and the writing is just whatever. Run of the mill. Bell curve. Also that Psyopus review is straight retarded. At least he's a nice guy.

[Thor]

Everybody thinks he's great. He's a crowd pleaser but all he does is review metal very narrowly. Really kneejerk and the writing is just whatever. Run of the mill. Bell curve. Also that Psyopus review is straight retarded. At least he's a nice guy.
I think his reviews are pretty good. If you don't think they are, then what are some good examples of metal reviews?

[masada]

skarox007 knows

[pixiesfanyo]

Everybody thinks he's great. He's a crowd pleaser but all he does is review metal very narrowly. Really kneejerk and the writing is just whatever. Run of the mill. Bell curve. Also that Psyopus review is straight retarded. At least he's a nice guy.

123. He isn't bad at writing he just has bad taste.

[Liberi Fatali]

The deadly line between universal truth and subjective analysis.

What annoys me, is no that a high proportion of metalers on sputnik rate metal albums highly. It is that many tend to rate other genres badly, notably pop and Hip-Hop.

[Amit]

Unfortunately 'metalheads' tend to be very bi-polar. Either it sucks arse and is a 1/5, or rules all stuff in existence and goes 5/5. At least that's the impression I get.

I mean, 3 of 4 people I banned in the last ten days were people with Metal as their main piece of pie, because they acted moronic. Not that all metalheads are morons, but quite a few (especially young ones) are really narrow minded.

This.

The deadly line between universal truth and subjective analysis.

What annoys me, is no that a high proportion of metalers on sputnik rate metal albums highly. It is that many tend to rate other genres badly, notably pop and Hip-Hop.

And this.

[masada]

Unfortunately 'metalheads' tend to be very bi-polar. Either it sucks arse and is a 1/5, or rules all stuff in existence and goes 5/5. At least that's the impression I get.

I mean, 3 of 4 people I banned in the last ten days were people with Metal as their main piece of pie, because they acted moronic. Not that all metalheads are morons, but quite a few (especially young ones) are really narrow minded.


This.



The deadly line between universal truth and subjective analysis.

What annoys me, is no that a high proportion of metalers on sputnik rate metal albums highly. It is that many tend to rate other genres badly, notably pop and Hip-Hop.


And this.

And this.

[DFelon204409]

Atman, you go to Johns Hopkins? You know the user young, loud, and andrew?

[Amit]

I don't think so.

[DFelon204409]

His name is Andrew Langer. Look him up if you like.

[pixiesfanyo]

I don't think so.

Are you like Eggo's twin?

[Storm In A Teacup]

:lol:

[Jom]

You could say that.

[Storm In A Teacup]

that is your opinion, but it is wrong (just kidding) i stiill dont think that it is good or original as toxicity, but still good to me

He rated it a 5. :p

[Jom]

He could have changed his mind on the album - I feel that people rate albums "blindly" or only after one or two listens. I don't think an album can grow on you after merely one run through the CD player... but that's just me. I know that my album ratings have changed quite a bit - that album I deemed a classic is now a 3.5, and what I gave a 3 is now a 1.5. But, again, that's just me.

[Storm In A Teacup]

Good point there. I would have changed the rating though again, but alas.

[Zesty Mordant]

Its because metal is more intense. duh. And 3 is just not an intense number

[Amit]

His name is Andrew Langer. Look him up if you like.

/stalks on facebook

:-P

[SubtleDagger]

Everybody thinks he's great. He's a crowd pleaser but all he does is review metal very narrowly. Really kneejerk and the writing is just whatever. Run of the mill. Bell curve. Also that Psyopus review is straight retarded. At least he's a nice guy.
Which begs the question:

Why the holy hell does his PsyOpus review have precedent over mine?

[Shadows]

I can't believe you're still stuck on the Psyopus review. Flag Subtle's if it means that much to you.

Too bad ShadowsFallen doesn't come around as much anymore. He was the coolest and fairest metalhead ever.
Aw, you're too kind. :)

I'll be back after my little vacation. I just don't have much time to post right now. But on topic, I think metal guys do hand out high ratings way too much.

[Storm In A Teacup]

He does live! I figured either you killed yourself because Leah left you or you were just too busy from work. :p

-Kripes

[SubtleDagger]

To be honest, the only reason the Psyopus thing irks me is because I don't understand what puts one review over the other. Call it MaCartney/Lennon-ism if you want but I wrote that review like a million years ago. It's kind of like how my review for Irony Is A Dead Scene didn't get added until months ago for some reason and it's on backlogs now. It just gets on my nerves a bit.

[Shadows]

I can understand that. It bothers me too. A lot of the default reviews make no sense.

He does live! I figured either you killed yourself because Leah left you or you were just too busy from work. :p

-Kripes
I'm at her house right now.

[Storm In A Teacup]

Over the internet relationships must be weird. IMO

[Liberi Fatali]

Well in statistics, one way to find a more accurate representation of the true rating is to remove outliers.

So perhaps, for reviews, when an album haslets say 10 votes or more. The top 25% and bottom 25% of ratings does not count towards the overall total. For example, look at Gnarls Barkleys album St. Elsewhere. It is arguably one of the better releases of 2006, yet some punk nub rated it a 1, and has brought its rating down below 4. Perhaps for different genres you could make different %'s. So for Pop, exclude the top 10% of votes and the bottom 30%. Whilst with something like Metal, have it at top 30% of votes excluded and bottom 10% excluded.

It may seem unfair to genres, but when you get mindless raters picking on certain genres, it evens things up a fair bit.

Another possibility would be to just have mods remove silly ratings, eg that 1 star for Gnarls Barkleys St. Elsewhere *hint hint*

[Iluvatar]

^ But then you're diminishing peoples opinions, and thats something thats been made clear will not happen. Yeah, theres a lot of unfair rating going on, but people can rate every album a 5 or 1, as long as they give the pretense they own it (as how is anyone going to really verify it...until last.fm consumes us all).

[morrissey]

I don't think we should remove ratings, because though it is annoying people are allowed to have their opinions. And a lot of people who don't take the rating system seriously tend to gravitate to 1s and 5s. But I think your idea about removing the top/bottom % in the average rating is a fantastic idea. That seems like the perfect solution to me.

edit: just to clarify, their votes aren't being removed, they just aren't counting toward the average. This way people can still rate Ok Computer a 0.5 (something you can't do now) and every metal album a 5, but they will have less impact toward the average.

[Liberi Fatali]

So you'd rather have the top albums from 06 come from about 4 different genres?

Users can voice their opinion through blurbs, ratings, reviews, muses, comments and journals. Its not as though you're removing their rating, they'll still be there, you're just removing the radical (usually unjustified) ratings from reviews. (edit: yeah moz just pretty much summed it up)

But come on, users have so many ways to voice their opinions on albums, and to be heard. By smoothing out averages, we're not censoring the users. We'd just be achieving a greater degree of accuracy.

[Iluvatar]

But then those people who do honestly rate an album a 1 or 1.5 are getting jipped out of their input on the album because *insert generalized number* members may or may not just be rating an album a 1. Yeah, it'll still show up on their page, but they aren't having their say when it comes to the sites "official" ratings. There's obviously a good reasoning for it, and I don't particularly disagree with it, I just think its a unfair to some users. Then again, the current system is unfair to some albums, so meh.

Edit: No, but obviously those albums being there expose them to a larger audience, and that larger audience listens to them. Notice albums do drop off the top ten after a while; sure metal albums are going to get a huge showing off the bat, but when that exposure they're getting being in the top 10 gets to them, their rating will inevitably drop.

Again, its really a matter of whether you think you'll be more unfair to users or the artists/albums. And with the albums you're pertaining to, they really wont be lowered by much; taking out 2 5's out of 5 5's and 4 4.5's isn't going to lower the average much, let alone get it off the top ten. The idea does make more sense with pop albums, where the rating abuse is much more flagrant.

[Jom]

Statistics is sexy. Good work.

[Liberi Fatali]

But then those people who do honestly rate an album a 1 or 1.5 are getting jipped out of their input on the album because *insert generalized number* members may or may not just be rating an album a 1. Yeah, it'll still show up on their page, but they aren't having their say when it comes to the sites "official" ratings. There's obviously a good reasoning for it, and I don't particularly disagree with it, I just think its a unfair to some users. Then again, the current system is unfair to some albums, so meh. I think the benefit outweighs the negative.

Heck, just look at the main page of Power Metal, then compare it with the main page of Pop. Out of the last 12 power metal reviews, 11 have received a rating of 4.5 or more. :lol:

Out of the last 28 Power Metal reviews, 27 have received a rating of 4 or more. :lol: And about 20 of those had a rating of 4.5 or more.

[Iluvatar]

Thats because power metal is some hXc shiznat dude. Although undoubtedly P!nk's newest release is better than Dragonforce's newest, but then again, P!nk is pretty hXc.

[morrissey]

And with the albums you're pertaining to, they really wont be lowered by much; taking out 2 5's out of 5 5's and 4 4.5's isn't going to lower the average much, let alone get it off the top ten.
The point isn't to change the rating drastically - if the non-adjusted average rating is 4.9, it isn't going to become 3 by messing around with the percentages. This is a good thing. The idea of it is to minorly adjust the ratings and remove the most radical votes to balance things out just that little bit more. Especially for genres like pop and hip-hop. Genres like indie pop, progressive or funk etc. will have an even smaller percentage shaved off, or maybe even nothing.

[pulseczar]

Maybe it's because I don't like metal too much, but I think all the high ratings are results of metal being such a narrow genre in comparison to other general terms like Alt/Indie and Rock. Metal has two really constricting univeral qualities to it, all of it is heavy (duh), and all of it is filed in anal, and pointless subgenres. In Rock and Indie, there are tons of varieties that can make a person like or dislike it. Whereas if a metal album promises what it delivers; being heavy, having all the qualitites of whatever stupid sub-genre it's in, and have a slight twist to make it remotely unique, then it isn't hard for a certain amount of metal heads to start dishing out 4.5s to it. I don't know if anyone gets what I'm saying, or if I'm just giving out fodder for metal heads to shout at me, but that's what I think.

[Jom]

Maybe it's because I don't like metal too much, but I think all the high ratings are results of metal being such a narrow genre in comparison to other general terms like Alt/Indie and Rock. Metal has two really constricting univeral qualities to it, all of it is heavy (duh), and all of it is filed in anal, and pointless subgenres. In Rock and Indie, there are tons of varieties that can make a person like or dislike it. Whereas if a metal album promises what it delivers; being heavy, having all the qualitites of whatever stupid sub-genre it's in, and have a slight twist to make it remotely unique, then it isn't hard for a certain amount of metal heads to start dishing out 4.5s to it. I don't know if anyone gets what I'm saying, or if I'm just giving out fodder for metal heads to shout at me, but that's what I think.

I am not a metal connoisseur, but your description is an unfair assertion of the genre. Perhaps it's because you don't listen to much metal, as you claim, so the apparently excessive sub-genres is pointless to you. I think that the genres we have on the site are fine as they are, and don't see the point in adding folk metal or doom metal (and whatever else has been asked for in recent memory) just so Wintersun or Sunn 0))) have some place to go on the site other than 'Metal.'

But, when you look at some of the metalheads on Sputnikmusic, they will pigeon-hole bands and genres without much regard because their ears are trained to notice the differences between black metal and thrash metal.

In the same vein, these users could look at Alt/Indie and not tell the difference between Radiohead and Depeche Mode, but fans of Alt/Indie can give a multitude of reasons as to why the bands are different.

Fans of Genre A can differentiate bands in said genre, while fans of Genre B may not be able to differentiate bands in Genre A, but can do so for Genre B at the drop of a hat.

Point is, metal isn't a narrow genre defined by it being heavy and full of sub-genres. I'm not contesting that there are a lot, but the same could be said about fans of Punk (grindcore vs. classic punk vs. pop-punk vs. etc.), or Other music (trip-hop vs. hip-hop vs. etc.). It's not really all that justified to overgeneralize (other than laziness/unwillingness to listen to a genre), especially when people (metalheads) get fanatical about genres.

[pulseczar]

Yeah, you're right. I won't lie, I have no idea what I'm talking about, sorry :p

[Pete]

Did anyone stop to think of the most obvious answer of all;

Metal is just plain better than all the sissy crap y'all listen to.

?

Didn't think so, but it's just that simple.

One out of ten reviews of mine are metal...I think. So I guess I've done about eight metal reviews, maybe more. Actually, I'm not sure. :p
Just looking through your list of reviews, I see atl east 20 metal reviews. You filthy, stinking liar.