Some "Custom" Questions

[Ming-a-Ling]

So as some of you know for my next kit I'm wanting to build myself a custom one. I probably won't actually start on it for a couple years, but in the mean time I'm trying to gather all the knowledge I can about edges, and thickness, and woods and what not in trying to determine exactly what I'd like.

My first quesion would be about bearing edges. I know that double 45's are going to be more resonant then 35's with a roundover. But I was wondering how different edge combinations would affect the sound. Like, say 45's with a roundover on the batter edge with 35's and a roundover on the reso's. Or vice versa. And, would it be wise to experiment with different edges on each drum.

I also recently read something about Danny Carey's new drums. It was something like, the smaller the drum, the thicker the shell. I was just wondering what people's opinions on this are I guess.

I guess I'm mainly wondering about edges right now. So yeah, any insights will be greatly appreciated.

[Ming-a-Ling]

So I think I answered my question about the thickness thing. But anyone have insights on the edges....Josiah...I know you were talking about different edges on your next kit. Care to elaborate on what you have planned at all?

[osiecki]

The guys at Drum Shed (http://forum.drumshed.org) will probably have more knowledge on the subject, although, there are a select few here that can help you out.

[Chippy569]

like the ones that hibernate at DS? :D

on edges, the sharper the edge, the more resonant the sound. the more head touching wood on the OUTSIDE of the edge, the warmer the sound. the more head touching wood on the INSIDE of the edge, the drier and "fatter" the sound. If you wanna play, ask around at "custom" places for some shell end-cuts or end-tubes, they'll give you like a 14x2" thing you can practice edging on (watch them fingers.)

DC's new kit is, imo, dumb. it's backwards!

[osiecki]

like the ones that hibernate at DS? :D
Aha, such as yourself. You have 1000+ posts on that forum. Haha.

[Damo]

So as some of you know for my next kit I'm wanting to build myself a custom one. I probably won't actually start on it for a couple years, but in the mean time I'm trying to gather all the knowledge I can about edges, and thickness, and woods and what not in trying to determine exactly what I'd like.

My first quesion would be about bearing edges. I know that double 45's are going to be more resonant then 35's with a roundover. But I was wondering how different edge combinations would affect the sound. Like, say 45's with a roundover on the batter edge with 35's and a roundover on the reso's. Or vice versa. And, would it be wise to experiment with different edges on each drum.
As a general rule, its never wise to mess around with edges unless youre sure you know the effect of different edges. 99% of the time, id go for the edges that the manufacturer recommends. Its their drums, and experience will enable them to get the best sound out of their gear.


I also recently read something about Danny Carey's new drums. It was something like, the smaller the drum, the thicker the shell. I was just wondering what people's opinions on this are I guess.
Quite a good idea, again, if you know what youre doing. The timbre or shape of the drums sound differs depending on the thickness of the shell. As a guide, thinner shells promote more low-end, but also serve up less projection and a purer tone.

[Josiah]

Yes, if you really don't know exactly whats going on. Not a good idea to blindly order.


That said, it's easy enough to research the subject. I stole my edging ideas a lot from talking to John (Good, co-owner of DW) and another notable drum persona.

DW's been doing proportional edging on their kits for some time. The basic idea is to get the smallest tom to "sing" just as much as the largest tom, for them that is. So they change the batter edge (sharper for smaller) while at the same time making the resonate edges very sharp and just a lil lesson the bigger toms.
DW's also been doing some stuff with ply proportionate shells, however only they can do that.

My ideas for my kit have come from experimenting on drums I've made, watching how my own high end kits edges have worn, and playing on various high end kits. There's a lot of companies with some great ideas, but not really everyone uses all of them. If you are willing to do some reasearch and pay the money you can bring a lot of them together in one.

I'm fairly positive on how my drums will sound with the edges I want.. and it's a risk I'm willing to take.

There's some other ideas I'm looking into, such as coatings for the edges.. as edges DO wear, and mimizing that wear would be very cool, esspeccially on sharper edges where flattening or crushing could be an issue.

Since I can't change the ply thickness for the toms, really the only thing I can change is the edging and ply# in some cases. So my goal with the edges was to make the drums as unified as possible. Like DW, I want my 8" tom to ring out as much as my 16" tom will.
I beleive this will require both bringing the resonance of the high toms up, and lowering the resonance of the floor tom.. not dampening it, but reducing the amount via edge differences.
I still have more thinking to do about it, but I'm getting closer.


Edges on drums are like gear ratio's in a car. Dinking with them can and will make a difference, but if you don't really know what you are doing- you can jack stuff up. But if you do know what you are doing, even some of the smallest changes can make incredible differences in performance.

[Ming-a-Ling]

Thank you very much guys, that makes alot of sense. I appreciate it.

[Chippy569]

DW's also been doing some stuff with ply proportionate shells, however only they can do that.
not necessarily, my customs are "ply proportionate" - when it comes to volume, you do the danny carey thing where smaller drums are thicker in order to balance the volume. (thicker shells = less room for that air in the drum to move around = more contact with heads = more head vibration = louder). You can achieve a similar effect by adjusting where on the shell the edges sit - smaller drums will have their edges closer to the outside, giving the head more room to vibrate.

Dan did that on my kit... :)

Ming, a guideline for edges:
Resonant heads: should be sharper than batters. A sharper edge leaves less head-to-shell contact, meaning the head can vibrate more.


it's all physics, baby.


oh, and some high-end kits have some very dodgy edging... i was checkin' out a MMX the other day, and i popped the head up and some of the polyurethane (clear coat over the finish) had gone up over onto the edge, creating an uneven spot.... that was upsetting.

which reminds me - Jos, Dan coated my edges with some sort of wax (parrafin maybe? i'll ask). this does two things: fills in the gaps on the inside of the wood, leaving you a stronger edge, and (theoretically) allows the head to seat better over the edge. look around on info for that, a lot of custom guys will finish edges similarly.

[dumbassdrummer]

"i was checkin' out a MMX the other day, and i popped the head up and some of the polyurethane (clear coat over the finish) had gone up over onto the edge, creating an uneven spot.... that was upsetting."

Pearl has poor quality control. They make a great product, but those products are often messed up. My local shop even had a Reference kit come in with mounting hardware that would rub against the shell - simply poorly engineered. You would think that sort of thing would be unseen, but at Pearl slip ups like this are not uncommon.

[Josiah]

not necessarily, my customs are "ply proportionate" - when it comes to volume, you do the danny carey thing where smaller drums are thicker in order to balance the volume. (thicker shells = less room for that air in the drum to move around = more contact with heads = more head vibration = louder). You can achieve a similar effect by adjusting where on the shell the edges sit - smaller drums will have their edges closer to the outside, giving the head more room to vibrate.

Dan did that on my kit... :)


Yea i know about the wax, I'm thinkin more along the liens of teflon.

What you describe though isn't what I was talking about with DW though. When they or I say ply proporionate.. it means, the plies themselves vary in thickness for the size of the drum.

You're simply talking about changing the number of plies to alter the thickness.

What DW does is uses thinner ply's on the smaller toms, and the plies get thicker as the shell size goes up. In the simplest description. Dw is the only company that I know of that has the capabilities to pull that off.