Serbia: The world's youngest country

[Hababi]

ITT Discuss Serbia, which has now separated from Montenegro to form its own country. Think it's a good thing for them? And what about Montenegro?

I say :thumb: to it--any country with the word "and" in its name (former Serbia and Montenegro is stupid and bound to fail).

Also, for the heck of it, do you think America would be better off if it split into smaller regional states? What do you think the implications of such an action would be?

:chug: to Serbia, article free.

[PepsiMetal]

Serbia didn't split from Montenegro, Montenegro split from serbia. But finally Montenegro got its independence. They've been wanting it ever since bosnia, slovenia, and croatia got theirs.

As long as Serbia doesn't commit genocides again, it's all good.

I don't think America would be better off if split in regional parts. The economy for some parts would be amazing, and for others it would probably collapse. A big no-no. If the country works fine, there's no reason to split it. Yugoslavia just didn't work at all after Tito's death.

[Chrysostom]

National self-determination is a good thing. It'll be interesting to see how the fledgling nation develops over the next couple of decades or so.

[Atomic Rain]

I think it'd be better for the world if america was split into maybe west, mid, east

That way we could keep out of the middle bits and still enjoy the weather

I expect the east and west bits would have democrat presidents, so it'd be better for them too

However, america would lsoe its economic and military domination of the world

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

Wales and Scotland becoming independenthaha, I don't see how anybody could even entertain that idea.

[Hababi]

That's also basically what I see happening in Iraq at some stage, although the process would be even more bloody there.


We'd probably have set it up ourselves if it wasn't for Turkey opposing it. Of course, I say screw Turkey, partition Iraq into three sections, one for Shia, one for Sunni and one for the Kurds, and give each a great deal of autonomy.

Oh and a prediction: if the Supreme Court ever rules that it's Unconstitutional to ban gay marriage (what a dark purple day that would be), there will be a significant push for autonomy in the south and possibly midwest.

[-1up!-]

Personally I'd support small regional states. The range and variety of opinions in a country is what keeps democracies from having large projects and changes - IMO it kills progressism. Take Canada for example - there are many distinctions and disagreements between provinces, many of them accusing the federal government of favoring Quebec in some issues; given our distinct culture, Ottawa has no choice but to bend over backwards to accomodate opposites such as more left-leaning, progressist Quebec and the more conservative Prairies. Same with the US.

Don't get me wrong: variety and multiculturalism are things I highly value among a population. But in democracy they also create a constant quest for compromise between quarrelling interests, which in turn creates fixism and kills large projects in a society.

Smaller regional states also give more importance to the individual, given that their vote counts for "more". It could be a theoretical solution to voter apathy. It also makes it easier for social movements/political parties to appear and prosper since they don't need to get as much attention to gain some weight in the democratic process, effectively encouraging social and political dynamism.

[Chrysostom]

Oh and a prediction: if the Supreme Court ever rules that it's Unconstitutional to ban gay marriage (what a dark purple day that would be), there will be a significant push for autonomy in the south and possibly midwest.

Is it that much of an issue in those parts of the US?

[-1up!-]

Is it that much of an issue in those parts of the US?
quoted for shared interest: an issue important enough that it would stir nationalist movements?

[Hababi]

Is it that much of an issue in those parts of the US?

I think so. Many of those states have overwhelmingly passed statutes explicitly stating marriage as between one man and one woman, and where the Christian population runs above 80%, which it does there, there's going to be a HUGE backlash.

[Iskandar]

Yugoslavia should never have been one country, honestly.

[SubtleDagger]

Oh and a prediction: if the Supreme Court ever rules that it's Unconstitutional to ban gay marriage (what a dark purple day that would be), there will be a significant push for autonomy in the south and possibly midwest.
Why did you have to bring this up?

[Cain]

Also, for the heck of it, do you think America would be better off if it split into smaller regional states? What do you think the implications of such an action would be?

The American Civil War. :rolleyes:

Smaller regional states also give more importance to the individual, given that their vote counts for "more". It could be a theoretical solution to voter apathy. It also makes it easier for social movements/political parties to appear and prosper since they don't need to get as much attention to gain some weight in the democratic process, effectively encouraging social and political dynamism.

In America this concept of democracy died out with the Confederacy. Leave it to zerokewl to bring it up in an mx politics thread as a viable option.

[Iskandar]

Why did you have to bring this up?
Get used to it. He brings it into every thread. :-/

[SubtleDagger]

Get used to it. He brings it into every thread. :-/
I'd like it if every thread didn't get derailed by that kind of stuff then. :|

[Cain]

I'd like it if every thread didn't get derailed by that kind of stuff then. :|

Well it hardly matters here. I myself am simply amazed that he would bring this up when he claims to have some understanding of history.

[Britney Diva]

I was surprised they had the vote so soon before the World Cup, since they're competing as a unified nation, and it's events like that that tend to bring out feelings of cultural unity in a nation.

Actually that's not a surprise at all, it makes perfect sense. :-/

I think Europe will remain roughly the same in future; I think it's got to the point where most of the Eastern nations' borders are so fluid that further division would create as many problems as it will solve.

[SubtleDagger]

Well it hardly matters here. I myself am simply amazed that he would bring this up when he claims to have some understanding of history.
No for the love of Christ don't bait him you guys will start arguing about it ugh

[Cain]

No for the love of Christ don't bait him you guys will start arguing about it ugh

No I won't. Besides, I was talking about his point of the Americans splitting up into different states, not gay marriage.

[Reaganista]

Also, for the heck of it, do you think America would be better off if it split into smaller regional states? What do you think the implications of such an action would be?
that would be like the worst thing that could ever possibily happen

good thing there's no way it's going to

[SubtleDagger]

No I won't. Besides, I was talking about his point of the Americans splitting up into different states, not gay marriage.
He'll probably just bring it up again : |

[Hababi]

Why did you have to bring this up?


Why not? :p

[Hababi]

Get used to it. He brings it into every thread. :-/


Haha I do not. Usually other people bring it up, and then I inevitably put my two cents in.

[Britney Diva]

The important thing is that everyone's talking about it now, as opposed to discussing the matter at hand.

[Hababi]

that would be like the worst thing that could ever possibily happen

good thing there's no way it's going to


Well of course it's never going to happen, even though there's a loopy Vermont group that was pushing for secession, and recieved coverage in the Christian Science Monitor. The point is what if. You know, using your imagination, like Coheran likes to do in discussions ;)

But it actually wouldn't be such a bad thing if Massachustes, New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont seceded. They could take San Francisco with them, and let the rest of America get on with its business. Then when they collapse with an overwhelming AIDS epidemic, we could just give them some financial assistance.

[SubtleDagger]

Then when they collapse with an overwhelming AIDS epidemic
Ugh for the love of politics please keep homosexuals out of the discussion

[Iskandar]

Haha I do not. Usually other people bring it up, and then I inevitably put my two cents in.
But if you didn't put your two cents in, the discussions wouldn't get derailed.

Of course, it's extremely hypocritical for me to say this when I and every other member of this forum has derailed threads in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

Ugh for the love of politics please keep homosexuals out of the discussion
Add, And bring logic in. There is no reason to assume a region comprised mainly of homosexuals with access to modern protection would have a "raging AIDS epidemic."

[Smokey D]

I'm just astounded you thought Serbia split from Montenegro, and not the other way around A good result in democratic terms, though obviously Serbia is going to be quite peeved at the loss of a coastline. If this has any further effects, it'll be the strengthening of the Serbian ultra-nationalist movement (already very strong) and a tightening of the grip on Kosovo.

[ringworm]

I'm sure Me & A LOT of other people would be MORE than happy to reinstate the Mason Dixon Line again. :lol:

Let the rest of you duke it out & quarrel amongst your silly selves.
We have pretty much all we need in-house.
But all the yankees that have moved here would definately get the boot.
You could have the immigrants too since you guys like em so much. j/k

[Reaganista]

the realize that the south would just be mexico with white people if it wasn't for the Northeast and west financing you

[Hababi]

I'm just astounded you thought Serbia split from Montenegro, and not the other way around


:lol: Well I just saw the excerpt on wikipedia's main page and posted the thread without reading more into it.

[PepsiMetal]

That was pretty funny. Haha. Considering Belgrade, the capital of ex-Yugoslavia, is in Serbia. :p

But yea, I'm glad Serbs are getting less and less land and all seperate states are getting its independence. They'll never have military to attack countries again unless those stupid Russians get involved again. :(

[ringworm]

the realize that the south would just be mexico with white people if it wasn't for the Northeast and west financing you
ha, LMAO, I rather enjoyed that one! :thumb:


We still wouldnt care, as long as we had nothing to do with the rest of the screwed up country.

Hey let's start N vs S jokes then :)

WAYS TO ANNOY A YANKEE
* Pronounce all one syllable words with two.:p

[spitfirejunky]

The US economy is built on this union is it not? If so, it would be extremely complicated making the division.

[Hababi]

the realize that the south would just be mexico with white people if it wasn't for the Northeast and west financing you

Actually that trend is reversing itself. The states that are growing are not the north eastern states. Economic vitality is shifting away from there to the south and west:

http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2005/state_vitality/story3.html

So, I think that the south and midwest could easily survive, economically, without the north and california, and would in fact be flourishing in 20 years.

[ringworm]

The trend is reversing itself? I never knew we were being "financed" by yooz guys anyway, lol, must be the cold air gettin to ya.
Yooz guys thinkin that way is why there is so much resentment towards each other right now.
We are so SLOW down here & yaw just die of heart attacks early in life because how quick tempered & rude everyone is up there.
I used to go to Boston, Maine, NY all the time, jeeesh, I'm glad that doesnt have to happen anymore. Nobody knows how to be kind or just show manners up there. I only have a Chicago client now, he's pretty cool.
But it is funny how differnent we are.

[superpeer]

It's probably for the best.

Here in Belgium, some parties want to separate Flanders (dutch speaking) and Wallonia (French speaking), that would probably turn Flanders in one of the richest nations in the world, but it just doesn't have that same ring to it. :)

[3_times_round]

That was pretty funny. Haha. Considering Belgrade, the capital of ex-Yugoslavia, is in Serbia. :p

But yea, I'm glad Serbs are getting less and less land and all seperate states are getting its independence. They'll never have military to attack countries again unless those stupid Russians get involved again. :(

Serbia IS Yugoslavia isn't it? Just under a different name, and minus all th related country split-offs. Therefore it makes perfect sense that Belgrade is in the 'original' country.

[Hababi]

It's probably for the best.

Here in Belgium, some parties want to separate Flanders (dutch speaking) and Wallonia (French speaking), that would probably turn Flanders in one of the richest nations in the world, but it just doesn't have that same ring to it. :)

Dude that'd be wayyy too Simpson's-ish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders_family

[Britney Diva]

The Former Belgian Republic of Flancrest Enterprises

[superpeer]

Don't make fun of my country, this is a serious thread. :upset:

[Britney Diva]

Poking fun at the Belgians is serious business!

[Atomic Rain]

It's probably for the best.

Here in Belgium, some parties want to separate Flanders (dutch speaking) and Wallonia (French speaking), that would probably turn Flanders in one of the richest nations in the world, but it just doesn't have that same ring to it. :)

Which half makes the chocolates? After all, that is belgium's only export.

[spitfirejunky]

Stella/Duval > existence.

[PepsiMetal]

Serbia IS Yugoslavia isn't it? Just under a different name, and minus all th related country split-offs. Therefore it makes perfect sense that Belgrade is in the 'original' country.

All other states except kosovo have split, but yea you can call Serbia, Yugoslavia, because the capital city is in that state.

[dislocated214]

The world cup, soccer, team is still Serbia AND Montenegro.

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/team/overview.html?team=scg

[Reaganista]

I don't know about you but I've had about enough of this Montenegroian imperial agitation.

too bad milosevic isn't around anymore to put those pricks in line.

[PepsiMetal]

I don't know about you but I've had about enough of this Montenegroian imperial agitation.

too bad milosevic isn't around anymore to put those pricks in line.

Why would you want a war criminal to be alive? Wow, you're posts are worse and worse each time.

The world cup, soccer, team is still Serbia AND Montenegro.

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/team/overview.html?team=scg

Yup. That's probably cause Montenegro needs to establish its own clubhouse and such. But they were signed for FIFA before independence also.

[superpeer]

Which half makes the chocolates? After all, that is belgium's only export.

No it's not. :p

And I'm not sure, both, I guess.


Stella/Duval > existence.

Stella isn't bad. Duvel is sex indeed, though. Beer named devil is bound to be good, anyway.

/off topic

[dislocated214]

Why would you want a war criminal to be alive? Wow, you're posts are worse and worse each time.



Yup. That's probably cause Montenegro needs to establish its own clubhouse and such. But they were signed for FIFA before independence also.
Whose better? The Serbian side or the Montengeran side?

[spitfirejunky]

Stella isn't bad. Duvel is sex indeed, though. Beer named devil is bound to be good, anyway.

Yes, I should ammend that with another inequality:

Duval > Stella > existence.

[PepsiMetal]

Whose better? The Serbian side or the Montengeran side?

In the last 20 years, Serbs were the worst people in the Balkan Region. Serbs were a huge problem in the WWI also.

[Reaganista]

Why would you want a war criminal to be alive? Wow, you're posts are worse and worse each time.

because he could keep the montenegroians in line

you're just fooling yourself if you think their going to do anything besides try to create a greater montenegro by annexing all their surrounding countries and then march on moscow.

[PepsiMetal]

Haha, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia most likely won't have anything to do with Montenegro or Serbia for a while. At least now that Yugoslavia is split into pieces, no more genocides will be caused by the Serbs. Plus montenegro splitting means Serbia has no access to the Sea anymore. :)

[Reaganista]

anyway capital never would've allowed the split to happen if there wasn't some way they were profitting from it. surely they gerrymandered all the socialists in the country in such a way as to disenfranchise them. it's convient when you can just redraw borders instead of actually winning fair elections, just ask Texas.

[Smokey D]

Serbia IS Yugoslavia isn't it? Just under a different name, and minus all th related country split-offs. Therefore it makes perfect sense that Belgrade is in the 'original' country.

Yugoslavia means 'land of the South-Slavs' and was a pan-slavic nationalist ideal promoted chiefly by the Serbs, the dominant Balkans power with the decline of the Ottomans.

In the last 20 years, Serbs were the worst people in the Balkan Region. Serbs were a huge problem in the WWI also.

The Serbs were no more at fault for World War I than any other power. Franz Ferdinand's assasination did not need be the casus belli it turned out to be without Austria, Russia and Germany all deciding to respond before diplomacy could be attempted.

Why would you want a war criminal to be alive? Wow, you're posts are worse and worse each time.

You're a smart guy, but sometimes you really are dense.

[RockAndRoll]

I think the real question here is should 2 countries really be allowed to join forces like this to try to win the world cup? :p