Terrorist Plot in Toronto.

[Zesty Mordant]

Last Updated Sat, 03 Jun 2006 21:58:03 EDT
CBC News

Security was tight in Brampton, Ont., on Saturday as court appearances began for 15 of the 17 people arrested and accused of planning a series of attacks against targets in southern Ontario.
An officer is seen near a police station in Pickering, Ont., where the suspects were taken late Friday and early Saturday. (CBC)

In all, 12 men and five youths were arrested on Friday. Officials have alleged they were supporters of al-Qaeda.

Shackled in leg and handcuffs during their court appearances, the 15 were remanded into police custody and will appear again in court on Tuesday — along with the other two accused — for a bail hearing.

While the Canadian Press said only two of the accused had their charges read out to them, Justice of the Peace John Farnum told the court that "the charges as read are virtually the same, so they will apply to all parties."

The charges allege that the men knowingly participated in a terrorist group and either received or provided terrorist training in Toronto, nearby Mississauga, Fort Erie and Ramara Township, located on the shores of Lake Simcoe in central Ontario's cottage county.

Some family members of the accused were seen in court crying and consoling each other.

The RCMP, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), and Toronto-area law enforcement agency officials were among those providing details of the arrests earlier in the day.

"This group holds a real and serious intent," RCMP Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell told reporters.

"Our investigation prevented the assembly of any bombs and attacks from being carried out," he said.

McDonell said Canada "is not immune to the threat of terrorism," but declined to answer questions about the intended targets. However, he said Toronto's public transit system was not one of them.

Bill Blair, Toronto's police chief, told CBC News that officials had gathered information about dates chosen for the attacks, but he, too, refused to provide details.

Ammonium nitrate seized

Police also said they seized about three tonnes of the commonly used fertilizer ammonium nitrate. Just one-third of that amount of ammonium nitrate was used in the bombing of a U.S. federal building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people in 1995.

Officers fanned out across the Toronto area to make the arrests. They later delivered the suspects to the Durham Regional Police Station in Pickering, east of Toronto. Police officers stood guard on the street and around the building, many holding their weapons in plain sight.

All of the suspects are residents of Canada and most are Canadian citizens of various backgrounds, officials said.

"Our information is that they participated in training all together," McDonell said.

"For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaeda," said Luc Portelance, assistant director of operations for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS).

Record number of arrests

This was the largest counter-terrorism operation and the greatest number of arrests made in Canada since the Anti-terrorism Act came into effect in December 2001.

"We are a target because of who we are and how we live, our society, our diversity and our values," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in Ottawa.

"Their alleged target was Canada: Canadian institutions, the Canadian economy, the Canadian people."

Harper also praised the agencies involved in identifying and arresting the suspects.

"Today, Canada's security and intelligence measures worked," Harper.

"The good news is that the RCMP and CSIS and the Toronto police were aware of it, were monitoring it, and were able to apprehend the people involved before they acted," Toronto Mayor David Miller told CBC News.

Miller said he had been briefed "for a number of months" about the investigation.

"I was extremely concerned about the potential existence of this organization," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/03/terror-suspects.html

As somebody living in Toronto, I have to say that its definitely changed a lot of resident's perspectives on their own security, for better or worse.

Nonetheless, do you think that it was only going to be a matter of time before Canada, generally perceived as a peaceful country by the rest of the world (at least, compared to its neighbours), would find itself wrapped up in this conflict. Or have Canadians and the Canadian government been "deserving" of such possible attacks given our renewed prescence in Afghanistan. Or is it merely just another face on youthful angst and confusion gone horribly awry (given that some reports have charged it has been generally perceived as a homegrown operation rather than one with direct connections to a major terrorist organization).

Or, at worst, does this suggest that Canada should have had this coming given our often-deemed "liberal" policies on immigration and and multiculturalism?

Or do you just simply not care because its Canada?

[PepsiMetal]

That's not Al-Queda. It's probably some dumbass kids trying to be cool and claim they are part of this as it's a very world known organization.

Al-Queda has nothing to gain by attacking Canada, and Canada didn't do anything to provoke an attack.

[Hababi]

Al-Queda has nothing to gain by attacking Canada, and Canada didn't do anything to provoke an attack.


Except being part of the west. It was probably home grown and the group likely had no formal links to Al Quada, but it shows that radical Islam hates the west, not merely "evil American hegemony."

[Reaganista]

That's not Al-Queda

"For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaeda," said Luc Portelance, assistant director of operations for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS).


hmm who to trust...

[WhoDidTheElf]

If the attack did happen...

[Family Guy] Irony [/Family Guy]

[spitfirejunky]

That's not Al-Queda. It's probably some dumbass kids trying to be cool and claim they are part of this as it's a very world known organization.

...

3 tons of ammonium nitrate

[Reaganista]

they were gonna blow up that space-needle thing you guys got

canuck central!

[PepsiMetal]

Except being part of the west. It was probably home grown and the group likely had no formal links to Al Quada, but it shows that radical Islam hates the west, not merely "evil American hegemony."

Lol, you're so brainwashed by the media it's laughable. You probably think Osama Bin Laden hates west cause they're free and a democracy, and all that other good stuff. :lol:

...

So? I can have three tons of ammonium nitrate if I had the money for it. I don't have to be Al-Queda or a part of it.

[-1up!-]

hmm who to trust...
You demonstrated it yourself.

"For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaeda,"

inspired by.

Needless to say, there is a great amount of skepticism regarding those arrests. Political leaders were waiting on this occasion to demonstrate how Canada was also prone to have its terrorist worries, but people are finding holes in the police's evidence.

Ammonium nitrate, for your information, is fertilizer. Only if you damp it with some combustible can it be used as an explosive (About 1 ton of Ammonium nitrate was used in the Oklahoma City attack in 1995 which killed 168 people) But as of now, no one can give conclusions. We have to wait for the police investigation.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

Al-Queda has nothing to gain by attacking Canada.um what did it have to gain by attacking America?

[-1up!-]

Popularity, legitimacy in the eyes of the Islamist extremists, the honor of martyrdom, the pride of starting the Djihad against the hated empire. Think.

There's still no point in attacking Canada. Think about it. From the reputation Canada has worldwide, one of a peaceful place, Al-Qaeda would gain nothing by attacking the country. We're more seen as a haven for immigrants than a bugger in foreign policy like the United States, and attacking us would not result in sympathies for Al-Qaeda in the Middle-East like it did for 9/11.

One could say Canada has a lot less reasons to be hated than the US.

[spitfirejunky]

So? I can have three tons of ammonium nitrate if I had the money for it. I don't have to be Al-Queda or a part of it.

My point is it's definitely not some dumbass kids trying to be cool.

[guitrguy]

Lol, you're so brainwashed by the media it's laughable. You probably think Osama Bin Laden hates west cause they're free and a democracy, and all that other good stuff. :lol:
I can't believe you actually said that. You truelly are the biggest idiot in PNWI.

[Reaganista]

inspired by.

people inspired by adolf hitler are nazis

[PepsiMetal]

My point is it's definitely not some dumbass kids trying to be cool.

Yea I know. I didn't really mean kids, just stupid idiots who wanted to make a point by pretending to be a part of an organization because it's widely known today.

um what did it have to gain by attacking America?

US provoked the attack and has been provoking attacks from Middle East for over 50 years.

Perhaps they gained revenge on september 11th? Plus they're fighting on their land now, and with an incompetend president who doesn't like to plan things out, the war extends longer and longer, wasting billions and billions of dollars and couple thousands of US lives.

I can't believe you actually said that. You truelly are the biggest idiot in PNWI.

Oh no, all I wanted was your respect. :rolleyes:

people inspired by adolf hitler are nazis

Schwartznegger claimed Hitler was his inspiration, does that make him a nazi?

[Hababi]

So? I can have three tons of ammonium nitrate if I had the money for it. I don't have to be Al-Queda or a part of it.


Planning on using it to wage jihad against the west would make you a radical Muslim. Whether or not they were part of the group Al Quada, they were part of the same movement, which is radical Islam, and which, as this demonstrates, is at war with the west.


Schwartznegger claimed Hitler was his inspiration, does that make him a nazi?


No, he made a silly remark more than 20 years ago about watching "dictators" and admiring their charisma. He was not "inspired by Hitler."

[Jude]

Except being part of the west. It was probably home grown and the group likely had no formal links to Al Quada, but it shows that radical Islam hates the west, not merely "evil American hegemony."
Or that Canada is allied and extremely connected to the evil American hegemony.

[Hababi]

Or that Canada is allied and extremely connected to the evil American hegemony.


Canada has no troops in Iraq. Basically, it's, "If you don't wage holy jihad with us, you're against us."

[PepsiMetal]

Planning on using it to wage jihad against the west would make you a radical Muslim. Whether or not they were part of the group Al Quada, they were part of the same movement, which is radical Islam, and which, as this demonstrates, is at war with the west.

I said they weren't Al-Queda. And no, you can't wage jihad if the Canada did nothing to you. Do you really think that in Qu'ran it says "You can attack anyone you want and claim it a jihad"? Because it doesn't. And jihad is just about any struggle, it doesn't have anything to do with radical muslims.

So if you want to attack someone innocent and claim it a jihad, then it's not Islam.

Or that Canada is allied and extremely connected to the evil American hegemony.

It is somewhat of an ally to the US, but not a strong one. Them rejecting the participation in Iraq has put Canada on the good side of the middle easterners, afghans, etc... US, Spain, UK. All involved in Iraqi war, all had terrorist attacks.

[Hababi]

I said they weren't Al-Queda. And no, you can't wage jihad if the Canada did nothing to you.


Ok you go tell them how to wage jihad :lol: They're misinterpreting Islam to begin with, so how in the world are you going to try to use reason to dictate their actions? Flying planes into buildings betrays reason.


And jihad is just about any struggle, it doesn't have anything to do with radical muslims.


For radical Muslims like OBL and these schmucks, it does.

[neal_672]

PepsiMetal i fail to see what you are getting that. It's quite obvious they were radical Muslims intending an attack against Canada, and as BDR says it means they're part of the same movement. I'm not entirely sure why you're bothering arguing against it....

[Atomic Rain]

Every news article about an attempted or successful terrorist attack is like a dead soldier of civil freedom.

The terrorists are so clearly winning.

[Jude]

Canada has no troops in Iraq. Basically, it's, "If you don't wage holy jihad with us, you're against us."
When did I say anything about them having troops in Iraq? Don't twist my words. Or theirs.

[Hababi]

When did I say anything about them having troops in Iraq? Don't twist my words. Or theirs.


The argument was that only countries with military involvement in Iraq are targeted. Wrong.

[PepsiMetal]

Ok you go tell them how to wage jihad :lol: They're misinterpreting Islam to begin with, so how in the world are you going to try to use reason to dictate their actions? Flying planes into buildings betrays reason.

IF YOU MISINTERPRET ISLAM THEN IT'S NOT ISLAM.

For radical Muslims like OBL and these schmucks, it does.

Yea maybe, they're not really muslim if they constatly break the rules.

[Hababi]

IF YOU MISINTERPRET ISLAM THEN IT'S NOT ISLAM.


That really has nothing to do with anything, but it seems you've accepted the point.

[Zesty Mordant]

Canada has no troops in Iraq. Basically, it's, "If you don't wage holy jihad with us, you're against us."

We have troops in Afghanistan, and in the past couple of months we've generally increased our campaign there to help stabilize the country.

Though, until now, we haven't received any specific animosity from large terrorist cells.

[Reaganista]

Every news article about an attempted or successful terrorist attack is like a dead soldier of civil freedom.

The terrorists are so clearly winning.
actually they lost before they even started

[PepsiMetal]

PepsiMetal i fail to see what you are getting that. It's quite obvious they were radical Muslims intending an attack against Canada, and as BDR says it means they're part of the same movement. I'm not entirely sure why you're bothering arguing against it....

I never said they weren't radical muslims, I said they weren't Al-Queda.

[-1up!-]

people inspired by adolf hitler are nazis
You're missing the point. Being inspired by Al-Qaeda and adhering to the group are two entirely different things. Nazism is an ideology, not a distinct group in itself.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

If I went and blew up an in the name of Islam, that would not make me affiliated in any way. I could put up posters of Osama bin Laden on the burnt-out shell of a daycare center and I would still not be in any way affiliated with Al-Qaeda. This, so far, seems like it was not directly affiliated or ordered by any major terrorist group.

That said, it's pretty scary how far the plans got. 3 tons of ammonium nitrate... how far away could an attack really have been? Fill a car with fertilizer mixed with gasoline, drive it up to Parliament, and a whole lot of carnage will ensue.

It also sickens me how Harper is sounding more and more like Bush every day. He had the gall to talk about how Canadian values such as freedom and democracy are what's under attack - ffs, if you're going to borrow a page from the ole propaganda book, don't borrow that one. It's not so much what he said (I assure you, I'm a very pro-democracy and pro-freedom Canadian :p) as the way he sounds like he's trying to make a case for every Canadian to buy a rifle and keep an eye out for homosexuals and brown people.

[Reaganista]

You're missing the point. Being inspired by Al-Qaeda and adhering to the group are two entirely different things. Nazism is an ideology, not a distinct group in itself.
if you hear al qaeda's message and say 'hey that's a good idea, let's do that' then you're al qaeda

[PepsiMetal]

if you hear al qaeda's message and say 'hey that's a good idea, let's do that' then you're al qaeda

Wow, you're an idiot. Al-Queda is an organization. It's not a movement.

[Reaganista]

Wow, you're an idiot. Al-Queda is an organization. It's not a movement.
this is ironic because the wiki repeatedly refers to al qaeda as a movement and you're constantly posting wiki sources

also the leftist press has devoted a good deal of effort to discrediting the administration's idea that al qaeda is a hierchal organization and is actually a social movement

http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&DocID=1506
there's a pretty mainstream print article explaining what you're too dense to figure out on your own

[PepsiMetal]

this is ironic because the wiki repeatedly refers to al qaeda as a movement and you're constantly posting wiki sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qa'ida

Al-Qaeda is an international Islamic fundamentalist paramilitary organization and campaign comprising independent and collaborative cells that all profess the same cause of reducing outside influence upon Islamic affairs.

Where in that definition do you see movement? :confused:

also the leftist press has devoted a good deal of effort to discrediting the administration's idea that al qaeda is a hierchal organization and is actually a social movement

http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&DocID=1506
there's a pretty mainstream print article explaining what you're too dense to figure out on your own

Many people can think it's a movement, that doesn't mean it is.

[Reaganista]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qa'ida

Al-Qaeda is an international Islamic fundamentalist paramilitary organization and campaign comprising independent and collaborative cells that all profess the same cause of reducing outside influence upon Islamic affairs.

Where in that definition do you see movement?


this is even more ironic because the article refers to the al qaeda movement 5 times, the first of which is in that same paragraph you picked a sentence out of

lol

Many people can think it's a movement, that doesn't mean it is.

yeah I know, the several points raised in the LA times article prove that it is a movement, you should probably address them

[PepsiMetal]

this is even more ironic because the article refers to the al qaeda movement 5 times, the first of which is in that same paragraph you picked a sentence out of

lol

No it doesn't. Which word do you think implies that it's a movement?

yeah I know, the several points raised in the LA times article prove that it is a movement, you should probably address them

Some of that article I read implies Al-Qaida/Bin Laden itself started movements. It is not a movement itself.

[Reaganista]

No it doesn't. Which word do you think implies that it's a movement?

haha, the word movement.

god damn.


Some of that article I read implies Al-Qaida/Bin Laden itself started movements. It is not a movement itself.
if al qaeda starts a movement then it's the al qaeda movement

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

IF YOU MISINTERPRET ISLAM THEN IT'S NOT ISLAM.no

for example, I might think that the majority of Christians misinterpret Christianity but that does not mean they aren't Christians.

[neal_672]

For ****s sake PepsiMetal let it die, nobody gives a flying **** whether it was Al Qaeda or just people inspired by them, the fact of the matter is that someone was planning a terrorist attack, now stop arguing about semantics of the situation. Jeeeeeeeez :rolleyes:

[Smokey D]

people inspired by adolf hitler are nazis

But they aren't members of the NSDAP or anything. People inspired by al-Qaeda may be terrorists, but they aren't necessarily members of the organisation itself.

[spitfirejunky]

But is it an organization or a movement? Or both?

[Smokey D]

Probably both. Al-Qaeda does mean 'base' or 'foundation', doesn't it? It is an organisation from which various Islamist groups draw inspiration. That being said, it is wrong to think that anyone who identifies with al-Qaeda is an active and recognised member.

[-1up!-]

Bin Ladenism will never enjoy the mass appeal of other destructive ideologies of the modern era, such as communism, but it certainly enjoys wider support today than the secular Arab socialism that gripped much of the Middle East in past decades.

Haha communism, a "destructive ideology"? Sorry but your source is BS. No neutral source would qualify communism as such, because it's not.

[Jude]

The argument was that only countries with military involvement in Iraq are targeted. Wrong.
What argument? I have no clue what you're talking about. Allow me to recap.

Except being part of the west. It was probably home grown and the group likely had no formal links to Al Quada, but it shows that radical Islam hates the west, not merely "evil American hegemony."

Or that Canada is allied and extremely connected to the evil American hegemony.

Canada has no troops in Iraq. Basically, it's, "If you don't wage holy jihad with us, you're against us."

There ^^ is the first introduction of anything about Canada having troops in Iraq or not. I have no idea where it came from as it had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

[Reaganista]

Haha communism, a "destructive ideology"? Sorry but your source is BS. No neutral source would qualify communism as such, because it's not.
first of all, communism is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity
second, who the hell would even attempt to write a neutral editorial?

[-1up!-]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060605/D8I1PIE80.html


MISSISSAUGA, Ontario (AP) - The Royal Canadian Mounted Police itself delivered three tons of potential bomb-making material to a group that authorities said wanted to launch a string of attacks inspired by al-Qaida, according to a news report Sunday.

The Toronto Star said the sting unfolded when investigators delivered the ammonium nitrate to the group of Muslim Canadians, then moved in quickly on what officials called a homegrown terror ring.

The newspaper said that investigators learned of the group's alleged plan to bomb targets around Ontario, then controlled the sale and transport of the fertilizer.

Authorities refused to discuss the Star's story and have revealed few details of the purported plot, or how the sting developed.

Police arrested 12 adults, ages 19 to 43, and five suspects younger than 18 Friday and Saturday on charges including plotting attacks with explosives on Canadian targets.

The oldest, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, led prayers at a storefront mosque attended by some 40 to 50 families down the street from his home in a middle-class neighborhood of Mississauga, west of Toronto.

Imam Qamrul Khanson said the language of Jamal's Friday night prayers had a more aggressive tone than other prayer leaders', but there was never any talk of terrorism or violence.

Khanson said at least three of the suspects regularly prayed at the Al-Rahman Islamic Center for Islamic Education.

"Here we always preach peace and moderation," Khanson said at the one-room mosque.

"I have faith that they have done a thorough investigation," Khanson said of authorities. "But just the possession of ammonium nitrate doesn't prove that they have done anything wrong.

Don't jump the gun too soon. Nothing has been uncovered yet, and no acts of terror have been occurring. Canada's still a place where free speech is allowed, whether it's for radical Islamic speech or anything else.

first of all, communism is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity
second, who the hell would even attempt to write a neutral editorial?

So you're saying this source is biased, then you think I'll give any credibility to it? I don't think so.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

first of all, communism is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity


Religion has led to a lot more suffering and oppression than communism, fyi.

[ringworm]

Don't jump the gun too soon. Nothing has been uncovered yet, and no acts of terror have been occurring. Canada's still a place where free speech is allowed, whether it's for radical Islamic speech or anything else.
Yep, sure does look that way, especially if you guys want to remain on the "good side" of the Middle Easterners
Them rejecting the participation in Iraq has put Canada on the good side of the middle easterners, afghans, etc...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/trail/etc/canada.html
I think there is a dire risk that is happening. We are already playing a significant role in international terrorism funding. We have 50 terrorist organizations of a variety of descriptions here, and a good number of those are the so-called the world class ones. So I think that we can no longer afford to be naïve, and we need to see the political will to take some more control of the situation.

[Reaganista]

So you're saying this source is biased, then you think I'll give any credibility to it? I don't think so.
do you understand what an editorial is?

you don't get to write the point raised in it off just because you love communism, anyway

Religion has led to a lot more suffering and oppression than communism, fyi.
religion is also a necessary aspect for the formation of human culture

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

religion is also a necessary aspect for the formation of human culture

So it's ok that it's been used to justify pretty much every single atrocity ever committed?

Sharing and a sense of community is also necessary to human culture. I'm not saying the USSR was a happy go-lucky place, I'm saying that communism isn't the "worst thing" to ever happen to humanity.

[Jude]

Religion has led to a lot more suffering and oppression than communism, fyi.
Um you're stupid.

Neither of them are even in the top 20.

[-1up!-]

Um you're stupid.

Neither of them are even in the top 20.
He never said either of them were in the "top 20"

Read: Religion has caused more oppression and suffering than communism, which is right.

[The End]

um what did it have to gain by attacking America?

uhh that was retaliation, canada has done nothing to provoke an attack.

[Reaganista]

So it's ok that it's been used to justify pretty much every single atrocity ever committed?

actually most of the worst atrocities have been carried out by communists

uhh that was retaliation, canada has done nothing to provoke an attack.
when did the US attack osama

[Jude]

He never said either of them were in the "top 20"

Read: Religion has caused more oppression and suffering than communism, which is right.
Yeah but I know that guy and his ridiculous views on religion.

[-1up!-]

actually most of the worst atrocities have been carried out by nazis*

*fixed

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

no uncle joe and mao killed way more

[Reaganista]

*fixed

except stalin and mao both put hitler to shame

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

actually most of the worst atrocities have been carried out by communists


Let's have some figures for that. Because 20th century history alone says that the rape of the Nan King, the Holocaust, and the Cambodian/Rwandan/Bosnian/Armenian genocides alone add up to a hell of a lot of non-communist atrocities.

Let's not even go into the Inquisition or the nasty Christian habit of killing people who refuse to convert.

[Jude]

Let's not even go into the Inquisition or the nasty Christian habit of killing people who refuse to convert.
That was last done in what, like 1700?

[Reaganista]

Let's have some figures for that. Because 20th century history alone says that the rape of the Nan King, the Holocaust, and the Cambodian/Rwandan/Bosnian/Armenian genocides alone add up to a hell of a lot of non-communist atrocities.


nope sorry, mao, stalin and pol pot take 3 of the top 4 worst spots

[-1up!-]

Present some figures to back your claims.

[Reaganista]

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MEGA.HTM

[Zesty Mordant]

So the Toronto Star reported today that one of the proposed plans of the cell was to "storm" parliament buildings in Ottawa, take federal leaders hostage, demand that Canadian troops be withdrawn from Afghanistan and then....behead Canadian PM, Stephen Harper.

I dunno, that last bit sounds a little sensationalist, but this is definately gonna rile alot of the public up. I don't think a PM has ever had their life specifically threatened in recent memory:

Plan to 'behead' PM
Brampton court hears of plot to storm Parliament Hill and take politicians hostage
Jun. 7, 2006. 06:06 AM
BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH AND MICHELLE SHEPHARD
STAFF REPORTERS

The terrorism suspect who allegedly plotted to behead the Prime Minister was a Canadian soldier for four years and likely received weapons training.

The Toronto Star has learned that Steven Vikash Chand was a member of the Royal Regiment of Canada, a reservist unit that meets in Toronto.

Chand, who later converted to Islam and went by the name Abdul Shakur, is charged with belonging to a terrorist group, receiving training and recruiting or training others to participate in terrorist activity. The charges partly involve allegations that Chand and eight other suspects spent five days last winter in a remote field in Washago, Ont., to participate in terrorist training.

Cmdr. Denise Laviolette confirmed yesterday that Chand was once in the military, but sought to dispel any suggestion that the 25-year-old was a well-honed soldier. Instead, she described Chand as a reservist who was absent for much of his time in uniform and completed few of the qualifications required for infantry soldiers.

Chand was one of 17 suspects arrested Friday and Saturday as part of a massive police raid. They are accused of being members of an alleged homegrown terrorist cell, plotting attacks in Canada.

At a Brampton courthouse yesterday, 15 of the suspects appeared for a brief hearing and will remain in custody for a week until their bail hearings begin. Two suspects are already serving time in a Kingston penitentiary on weapons offences.

While security was more discreet than during their last appearance Saturday, when helicopters circled the buildings and snipers were posted on the courthouse roof, members of the Peel police tactical team armed with submachine guns were on standby.

Outside the courthouse was a crush of cameras and reporters from national and international media outlets and each time relatives of an accused arrived they would be encircled as they walked to the door, creating a chaotic scene.

Chand's lawyer, Gary Batasar, stunned the courtroom by revealing that his client and the 16 others are accused of being involved in a "detailed terrorist plot," which included plans to storm the Parliament buildings in Ottawa, take political hostages, harm hostages if Canadian troops did not withdraw from Afghanistan, and to attack media outlets including the CBC.

Relying on a synopsis provided by government lawyers, Batasar indicated that Chand was also alleged as a suspect "likely to behead Prime Minister Stephen Harper."

Batasar also asked the court to read the charges his client faces, saying Chand was still "unaware of the circumstances surrounding his arrest."

"Do you understand the charges?" the justice of the peace asked, once they had been read.

"No," Chand said, before being cut off by his lawyer.

"Let's leave this alone for now," Batasar said.

There was no mention during the hearing of Chand's prior military involvement.

Laviolette confirmed it's likely Chand received some training on the C-7 assault rifle, the mainstay weapon for Canada's frontline soldiers that can fire up to 940 rounds a minute, and perhaps the Browning 9 mm pistol, as well.

The regiment website boasts that its soldiers are trained in how to use rifles and pistols, explosives and pyrotechnics, missiles and grenades, unarmed combat and "employ ... battle procedures including camouflage and concealment, internal security, patrol, escape and evasion tactics."

"Is it possible that he had small arms training? Absolutely. However, it would have been a day at the range," Laviolette said in an interview. "If he did part of his infantry training, it might have been a few more days at the range."

However, Laviolette said there's no indication from training records that Chand progressed to train on heavier weapons.

Chand joined the reserves in June 2000 and served until April 2004. However, he was missing in action for much of that time, according to military personnel records.

"He spent a large portion of his time in the Canadian Forces on leave of absence and did not, as far as we can tell ... it looks like he did not complete his military trade training," Laviolette said.

While the Royal Regiment's soldiers have served alongside full-time troops in Afghanistan, Chand did not deploy on missions in either Canada or overseas, Laviolette said.

Sometime after leaving the military, Chand began hanging out near the Salaheddin Islamic Centre in Scarborough, playing sports with some of the youths and becoming interested in Islam, the centre's imam, Aly Hindy, said yesterday.

Hindy said while he did not know Chand well, he did instruct him during a few sessions about Islam.

A mosque member who knew Chand, Mohamed Ally, said Chand visited schools to help troubled youths find religion.

"He's innocent," he said. "He's very humble, peaceful brother."

At the hearing yesterday, lawyers for nearly all of the men complained about the conditions they've been kept in at Maplehurst Detention Centre, an adult facility in which some of the youths have also been held.

Since their arrest Friday night, the accused have been in solitary confinement, under close supervision. None has been allowed telephone privileges or visits with family members.

Lawyer Peter Martin — temporarily representing Shareef Abdelhaleen — complained his client was not allowed any interaction with other people. He asked that Justice of the Peace Maurice Hudson consider allowing the accused to pray together. Lawyers complained they have not been allowed to talk in private with their clients.

"The right to counsel and to have a private conversation ... this is a basic right that no allegation colours or takes away from," said Rocco Galati, lawyer for one of the accused.

Anser Farooq, a lawyer for several of the accused, said some family members phoned the detention centre to inquire about visiting, and officials refused to disclose if the accused individual was being held at the facility.

"A glimpse of a family friend is not going to cause any disruption to the proceedings in this case," Farooq said, urging the court to loosen restrictions.

Prosecutor Jim Leising said: "I have nothing do with the rules an institution imposes."

Although Hudson refused to change his ruling barring the accused from communicating with each other, he ordered that the youths be treated under the Youth Criminal Justice Act, and housed separately from the other prisoners.

Leising has said bail hearings may not be completed for several months. Yesterday, only two official bail hearings were scheduled, those of one youth and 30-year-old Shareef Abdelhaleen. The youth's bail hearing, set for June 16, is expected to take an entire day. Abdelhaleen's hearing is to proceed July 4.

Most of the accused will return to court Monday.

With files from Jessica Leeder,

Harold Levy and Surya Bhattacharya

[Hababi]

Don't jump the gun too soon. Nothing has been uncovered yet, and no acts of terror have been occurring. Canada's still a place where free speech is allowed, whether it's for radical Islamic speech or anything else.


Inciteful speech is not allowed. During WW2, a Nazi group in America would not have been allowed to hold a rally during which they called for the murder of government leaders and civilians. This is no different.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

Present some figures to back your claimsuh wtf

don't you know anything about mao, pol pot or stalin?

[Reaganista]

never heard of him

[The End]

actually most of the worst atrocities have been carried out by communists


when did the US attack osama

osama wasn't the one who flew the planes into the buildings - those were Saudis, and they were upset at military presence in Saudi Arabia (Holy Land). Also Osama is a Saudi himself.

[-1up!-]

uh wtf

don't you know anything about mao, pol pot or stalin?

Actually I do, idiot. If you can read my few words correctly, you'll understand I was asking for numbers. He presented numbers, with which I'm satisfied. Christ, it's not hard to catch.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

I would assume someone knew nothing about Nazi Germany if they asked for verification for a statement like "6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust."

[Reaganista]

osama wasn't the one who flew the planes into the buildings - those were Saudis, and they were upset at military presence in Saudi Arabia (Holy Land). Also Osama is a Saudi himself.
the US never attacked saudi arabia

[Smokey D]

Let's have some figures for that. Because 20th century history alone says that the rape of the Nan King, the Holocaust, and the Cambodian/Rwandan/Bosnian/Armenian genocides alone add up to a hell of a lot of non-communist atrocities.

Let's not even go into the Inquisition or the nasty Christian habit of killing people who refuse to convert.

Stalin killed somewhere between 20-40 million. Mao killed upwards of 60 million. Cambodia was communist, and the Balkans massacres were carried out by Serbia under a communist government.

I would concede that regimes identified with Communism have not carried out the most attrocities in history, but it is probably singularly the most culpable ideology. Christianity is the only real other contender.

[The End]

the US never attacked saudi arabia

I didn't say they did retard

[Danish]

people inspired by adolf hitler are nazis

Right, but they aren't members of the Third Reich.

**************

More evidence that we shouldn't be in Afghanistan. Once we start taking part in imperial wars, we become imperialists.

[Danish]

So the Toronto Star reported today that one of the proposed plans of the cell was to "storm" parliament buildings in Ottawa, take federal leaders hostage, demand that Canadian troops be withdrawn from Afghanistan and then....behead Canadian PM, Stephen Harper.

I laughed pretty hard when I heard that accusation.

[Reaganista]

uhh that was retaliation, canada has done nothing to provoke an attack.

osama wasn't the one who flew the planes into the buildings - those were Saudis

I didn't say they did retard

:-/

I would concede that regimes identified with Communism have not carried out the most attrocities in history
then you're calculating worseness by something other than number of people killed

'relative meanness'?

[The End]

:-/


then you're calculating worseness by something other than number of people killed

'relative meanness'?

yeh... find where i said 'the US attacked Saudi Arabia' please

[guitrguy]

yeh... find where i said 'the US attacked Saudi Arabia' please
What? He didn't say that you did.

[The End]

yeh he basically said that that's what i meant, which it was not

[guitrguy]

yeh he basically said that that's what i meant, which it was not
Oh ok I see that now.

[Reaganista]

yeh... find where i said 'the US attacked Saudi Arabia' please
you can't retaliate if you haven't been attacked smart guy

[guitrguy]

you can't retaliate if you have been attacked smart guy
I'm pretty sure Osama views the presence of US troop in the Middle East as an attack on Islam.

Attacks don't have to cause physical harm to be an attack.

[The End]

you can't retaliate if you have been attacked smart guy

he viewed it as an attack against the religion smart guy

[Reaganista]

I'm pretty sure Osama views the presence of US troop in the Middle East as an attack on Islam.

he viewed it as an attack against the religion smart guy
Oh well good thing it's not then. guess that means he wasn't retaliating after all.

[The End]

Oh well good thing it's not then. guess that means he wasn't retaliating after all.

and you're one to interpret for something you have no involvement in? right..

[Reaganista]

doesn't need much interpretting

[The End]

doesn't need much interpretting

you can't control the minds of others, despite what you think. they viewed it as an attack, they have the right to do that you know, and retaliated for what they believed was a noble cause. is that so hard to understand? for once would you admit that america did play a role in this, a negative role, one that sparked it to happen. everything has a cause

[Reaganista]

no they don't have a right to declare non-attacks as attacks and then kill thousands of innocents.

[Hababi]

More evidence that we shouldn't be in Afghanistan.


Al Quada remains present in Afghanistan. The Taliban remains very present. If we leave now, the Taliban returns to power, reinstalls a radical Islamic government, and shelters Al Quada terrorists.

[guitrguy]

no they don't have a right to declare non-attacks as attacks and then kill thousands of innocents.
Just because you view something one way DOES NOT make it right.

[The End]

no they don't have a right to declare non-attacks as attacks and then kill thousands of innocents.

oh yeh? says who? they can declare what ever they want as an attack, there is no standard for what is and whats not an 'attack'. the killing innocent people is obviously wrong, but that doesnt change the fact that they have the right to their own views and beliefs.

[Reaganista]

well the meaning of the word attack is a standard for what is an attack
and not attacking anybody certainly isn't one

[The End]

well the meaning of the word attack is a standard for what is an attack
and not attacking anybody certainly isn't one

ok im not arguing anymore read this then

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/bin.laden.transcript/


there you go

[Reaganista]

what? we never attacked Saudi arabia?
oh ok cool

[The End]

no that's bull**** we never attacked Saudi arabia

look it doesn't matter how you percieve it, they do differently and because of that 3000 people are dead. thats some cold hard truth right there.

[Reaganista]

ok so now we're going to kill them

[The End]

ok so now we're going to kill them

if you react with violence only more violence will result. do you not understand that?

[Reaganista]

hahahaha

[The End]

hahahaha

what

[Danish]

Al Quada remains present in Afghanistan. The Taliban remains very present. If we leave now, the Taliban returns to power, reinstalls a radical Islamic government, and shelters Al Quada terrorists.

I'm not getting into this with you, but if Canada wasn't in Afghanistan, we (Canada) wouldn't be targetted for terrorist attacks.

[Hababi]

I'm not getting into this with you, but if Canada wasn't in Afghanistan, we (Canada) wouldn't be targetted for terrorist attacks.


Even if that was the case, and I don't think it is, why capitulate to terrorists? Why abandon a fight for freedom and against international terrorists?

[Danish]

Even if that was the case, and I don't think it is, why capitulate to terrorists? Why abandon a fight for freedom and against international terrorists?

Imperial wars aren't fights for freedom, they're exercises in domination.

And if terrorism isn't a consequence of 50 years of American imperialism and is a result of hatred for Western values and freedom, then explain why the only countries attack are involved in current wars. Why hasn't Germany, Sweden, Japan, France, etc. been targetted?

[The End]

Imperial wars aren't fights for freedom, they're exercises in domination.

And if terrorism isn't a consequence of 50 years of American imperialism and is a result of hatred for Western values and freedom, then explain why the only countries attack are involved in current wars. Why hasn't Germany, Sweden, Japan, France, etc. been targetted?

very well said.

haha thats exactly what bin laden said too though

[Hababi]

Imperial wars aren't fights for freedom, they're exercises in domination.


Look beyond the rhetoric:

The people we were fighting were the Taliban, who ran the most repressive regime on the planet. You'd be dead in the Taliban's Afghanistan. In fact, everyone on here would. How was it not a good thing to throw them out of power?


Why hasn't Germany, Sweden, Japan, France, etc. been targetted?

Japan has been involved in the war efforts. It's a war on the west for being the west, not for anything that we do. It's a war to establish a modern day caliphate, to bring the world under radical Islamic law.

[The End]

Look beyond the rhetoric:

The people we were fighting were the Taliban, who ran the most repressive regime on the planet. You'd be dead in the Taliban's Afghanistan. In fact, everyone on here would. How was it not a good thing to throw them out of power?



Japan has been involved in the war efforts. It's a war on the west for being the west, not for anything that we do. It's a war to establish a modern day caliphate, to bring the world under radical Islamic law.

I wouldn't

[ringworm]

Why hasn't Germany, Sweden, Japan, France, etc. been targetted?
Because besides Japan, they aren't involved?

[Danish]

Look beyond the rhetoric:

The people we were fighting were the Taliban, who ran the most repressive regime on the planet. You'd be dead in the Taliban's Afghanistan. In fact, everyone on here would. How was it not a good thing to throw them out of power?

I am not advocating represive regimes. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that democracy is never established in Afghanistan or Iraq. Those aren't the goals of the occupations, just the rhetoric. Besides, don't you think it's somewhat hypocritical of the US to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan because they're repressive, when the US for years and years supported those very regimes and many other repressive regimes?

Indeed, I think it's you that needs to look beyond the rhetoric.

Japan has been involved in the war efforts. It's a war on the west for being the west, not for anything that we do. It's a war to establish a modern day caliphate, to bring the world under radical Islamic law.

Ok, but only in the US, Canada, Spain, and Britian? Germany and France don't count as "the West" to you?

You're assertion is clearly incorrect because it doesn't account for why some countries are targetted and others aren't, which is what I asked you to do. You provided no explanation for that other than repeating the Administration's ridiculous rhetoric.

[Danish]

Because besides Japan, they aren't involved?

None of those countries, expect for Japan, are involved. To be honest, I wasn't aware Japan was involved (must not be that involved). However, if they are, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a few hit lists.

[Hababi]

I am not advocating represive regimes. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that democracy is never established in Afghanistan or Iraq.


It already has been.


Besides, don't you think it's somewhat hypocritical of the US to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan because they're repressive, when the US for years and years supported those very regimes and many other repressive regimes?


We never supported the Taliban, and we only supported Saddam when he was the better choice over Iran. I don't think it's hypocritical, because we never supported them over a valid democratic alternative. We supported them over other tyrants. It's pragmatism, not hypocracy.


Ok, but only in the US, Canada, Spain, and Britian? Germany and France don't count as "the West" to you?


France is having its own problems. Really, they're not world leaders. the US and UK are.


You're assertion is clearly incorrect because it doesn't account for why some countries are targetted and others aren't, which is what I asked you to do. You provided no explanation for that other than repeating the Administration's ridiculous rhetoric.


They're targeting the easy targets, the ones Bin Ladin can easily recruit sheep with.

[Iscariot]

So? I can have three tons of ammonium nitrate if I had the money for it. I don't have to be Al-Queda or a part of it.

No you can't, because you don't have Al-Queda funding like these kids did.

[Danish]

It already has been.

Democracy is more than voting. It's impossible in a country that's occupied by another.

We never supported the Taliban, and we only supported Saddam when he was the better choice over Iran. I don't think it's hypocritical, because we never supported them over a valid democratic alternative. We supported them over other tyrants. It's pragmatism, not hypocracy.

Pragmatism over human rights and democratic values. Gotcha.

France is having its own problems. Really, they're not world leaders. the US and UK are.

So Germany isn't a world leader and Spain is?

They're targeting the easy targets, the ones Bin Ladin can easily recruit sheep with.

So much for improving security during the "war on terror".

So Britain is an easier target than Germany or France?

Almost every expert, including the CIA, have stated that the "war on terror" has dramatically increased the risk of terrorism. Why is that?

[guitrguy]

So Germany isn't a world leader and Spain is?
Once you become socialist and disagree with the US you forfeit you're role in world leadership.

[Danish]

Once you become socialist and disagree with the US you forfeit you're role in world leadership.

Well, I would hardly call Germany socialist.

But other than that, you're about correct, particularly in the eyes of the Administration.

[guitrguy]

Well, I would hardly call Germany socialist.
I would say they are. Stores can't have any special sales with out gov't approval. There insane taxes, and free upper level education.

[The End]

don't even bother arguing with broadway he's not worth it he's just a concieted blatently racist propaganda filled hateful person.

[Reaganista]

Canadians deserve to be blown up for being little eichmans.

Canada has a long and storied history of raping islamic rights and peoples and all you Canadians are complicit in it.

[Danish]

I would say they are. Stores can't have any special sales with out gov't approval. There insane taxes, and free upper level education.

They still have a market-based economy. Therefore, they aren't socialist.

Besides, free upper-level education is like a subsidy to business in many ways.

don't even bother arguing with broadway he's not worth it he's just a concieted blatently racist propaganda filled hateful person.

Agreed!

[Atomic Rain]

Canadians deserve to be blown up for being little eichmans.

Canada has a long and storied history of raping islamic rights and peoples and all you Canadians are complicit in it.

The difference is, canadians don't try to defend such actions, whereas the united fist of freedom seems to be under the impression it doesn't make mistakes.

I wasn't aware that canadians had ever gotten involved in anything, though. Could you tell me about said raping of rights so I can read up on it?

[Reaganista]

Canadian soldiers were involved in the First Gulf War of western imperialism

Depleted Uranium!

not to mention this Afghani atrocity

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

I am not advocating represive regimes. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that democracy is never established in Afghanistan or Iraq. Those aren't the goals of the occupations, just the rhetoric. Besides, don't you think it's somewhat hypocritical of the US to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan because they're repressive, when the US for years and years supported those very regimes and many other repressive regimes?
but democracy is already established in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[The End]

Canadian soldiers were involved in the First Gulf War of western imperialism

Depleted Uranium!

not to mention this Afghani atrocity

yeh whatever blahblahblah

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

keep up the insightful commentary jackass!

[The End]

keep up the insightful commentary jackass!

blahblah random insult here blah blah blah

[Reaganista]

yeh whatever blahblahblah

Depleted uranium is a WAR CRIME

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

hey the end, why are you such an islamofascist?

[spitfirejunky]

yeh whatever blahblahblah

Would this be considered the type of **** that people get banned for?

[ringworm]

don't even bother arguing with broadway he's not worth it he's just a concieted blatently racist propaganda filled hateful person.
At least he can discuss things properly without resorting to this kind of behavior.
What does that say about you?

[The End]

hey the end, why are you such an islamofascist?

hey stupidly long user name I'm not

[The End]

At least he can discuss things properly without resorting to this kind of behavior.
What does that say about you?

that i hate him maybe? :rolleyes:

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

hey stupidly long user name I'm notQ: is bin Laden a bad guy?

im a chick corea album, fyi

[The End]

Q: is bin Laden a bad guy?

im a chick corea album, fyi

A: YES

[Reaganista]

like Zarqawi, Bin Laden is a misguided hero of the class struggle

[Hababi]

Would this be considered the type of **** that people get banned for?


Yes, it would. 6 days sounds about right.

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

like Zarqawi, Bin Laden is a misguided hero of the class struggleClass War is the Only Just War!

[spitfirejunky]

:lol: Tway. Guess that means the commi-bashing is out of style.

[Hababi]

So Germany isn't a world leader and Spain is?


Spain is more at risk, geographically.

[Reaganista]

Guess that means the commi-bashing is out of style.
I've had a change of heart.

[spitfirejunky]

I've had a change of heart.

Glad you've come to the light side.

/salutes guevara poster

[Zesty Mordant]

No you can't, because you don't have Al-Queda funding like these kids did.

Actually, at this point its starting to look that this was largely a homegrown operation.

[RNR]

Whether or not they were connected to Al-Queda, they should all be locked up if found guilty.

And Canada is definitely at risk. There are Canadian troops in Afghanistan and they actively engage in fighting.

[Smokey D]

Depleted uranium is a WAR CRIME

I'm not sure whether I'm detecting irony or not, but to depleted uranium is definitely horrific and should be classified in the same league as chemical warfare or biological.

[neal_672]

Depleted uranium is a WAR CRIME

Anti Flag, lolz :lol:

[Jude]

I think fenwood hacked Tway's account.

[Reaganista]

ye nit, if I be fenwood then ye be Tom Arico

arrr, matey!

[Zesty Mordant]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000G20S/104-2997343-4223918?v=glance&n=5174

good to see his music career is really starting to take off (unlike him apparently lying about performing in Iraq and Israel)