Vegetarianism

[madeyadams]

So. I'm a vegetarian. I mainly did it for animal rights, but then it comes with added benefits such as a healther diet and lifestyle. However, it gets a lot of criticism from outsiders. The main argument against vegetarianism is people who are vegetarians don't get enough protein. This argument is so retarded because it's so untrue. Protein is also available in nuts, tofu, eggs, dairy, and a lot of vegetables. All of which I eat.. I love tofu. Anyway, my parents are really pissed as of late, literally telling me, "NO! You can't be a vegetarian. You'll get sick and your hair will lose its shine because of lack of protein." I feel like punching them.

What are your views on it?

[Jharaski]

It actually is true because "protein is protein" is false, and some of the essential amino acids are found only naturally in meat.

Though I respect anyone's decisions. I just can't respect anyone who believes that slaughterhouses are done in the way as shown on PETA's site.

[madeyadams]

Actually, they are. But mostly for cattle, because it has to be in and out so quickly due to sanitation reasons. I read a book on the meat industry and how they slaughter and package the meat. The workers sometimes get their own blood into the meat because they have to make such quick and thick cuts, and they don't even get health coverage for any injuries on the job.

[Jharaski]

Actually, they are. But mostly for cattle, because it has to be in and out so quickly due to sanitation reasons. I read a book on the meat industry and how they slaughter and package the meat. The workers sometimes get their own blood into the meat because they have to make such quick and thick cuts, and they don't even get health coverage for any injuries on the job.



I get most of my meat from independent farms. :)

edit - woops, refuted wrong point :)

[Papa_Lazarou]

lol vegetarianism

[Samuel]

I have no problem with people doing it, so long as they stay out of my business. Granted, I think it's a bit silly, and would never do it my self. But I don't accuse people of being immoral for choosing to eat in a way that's different from mine.

My brother is a vegetarian. Unfortunately, he dislikes tofu and most beans, doesn't take supplements, and essentially gets zero protein on a regular basis. Of course, he has hair loss problems, and very little muscle mass. If you're going to do it, then at least do it in a way that does not stunt your hormone production.

People make an impact. You can kill things to get protein, or you can kill things while getting protein. I just ride with the precedents. But I fully support any other's decision to try different methods.

[Syncratic]

I find many vegetarians to take the almighty, holier-than-thou approach, claiming to be better than someone who eats meat.

As well, the animal rights thing is actually admirable. PETA and their complete disregard for anything not in relation to their own cause tarnish that reputation.

Although, if one wants to take that avenue, by all means, go ahead, more power to you. Just respect others' and their own avenues.

[madeyadams]

I find many vegetarians to take the almighty, holier-than-thou approach, claiming to be better than someone who eats meat.

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.

[Syncratic]

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.

People such as that in general practices tend to piss me off.

[Jharaski]

My high school had this horrible animal loving group. I forget the name of it though, but it was totally retarded. I think it was suffer. They were totally self righteous and launched these campaigns such as "the 4 food groups" leaving out meat and dairy - grains, nuts, fruits, veggies. It was bad. But no one took them seriously.

[silicon71]

I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat carrots all day.

That pretty much sums up my views on Vegetarianism.

[MAthiAS]

Funny I find this thread after just having watched this.
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=gory&Player=wm&speed=_med

It actually is true because "protein is protein" is false, and some of the essential amino acids are found only naturally in meat.
If you look into the proteins of specific foods you can get complete protein without eating meat.

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.
While I agree with the message and am a vegetarian, it saddens me that some supporters take an entirely counterproductive means of carrying out the cause.

[Cain]

Three infants got kicked to death in the first week of January this year in Brooklyn and people are screaming about how the way we kill animals for food is inhumane.

Forgive the sarcasm in the first paragraph, but let's be clear here. Man has attained an unprecedented amount of influence (I hesitate to say "control") on his natural surroundings. We are in many ways far removed from what could be called our "basic nature." With civilization as we know it comes the collateral damage to our natural world as we mold it to fit our now-natural aesthetic. No matter what we did, that wouldn't change, and it certainly can't change now that we're so far in.

It's this way no matter what lifestyle you pick. A vegeterian lifestyle still demands an immense amount of mass harvesting of vegetables and so-called "natural" foodstuffs that don't require as much carving as meat does. Fine, but it eats up the land and the soil just the same, and no matter which way you spin it there are many tangible benefits to eating meat that simply do not exist in other foods.

The argument against eating meat that comes from harvested animals can only come from a kind of odd marriage of, IMO, misguided utopist sentiment and personal aesthetics. In the animal kingdom, animals get eaten by other animals. We talk about the "rights" animals have as though they're people but really the rights they have are to prolong the species in any way possible, just as we do. We're no better than they are, so to argue that it is inhuman to kill them for food suggests that we're better than every animal on the planet that digests meat and kills to get it. We're not. Look at how many of our own kind we kill despite all our socially constructed morality. As nice as it sounds, it doesn't wash with the reality.

One could even argue that cattle, for instance, is one of the most successful species in natural history, because they have found their natural niche and insurance of survival through being essentially harvested for food by man. There is also a load of evidence to suggest that, "Chicken Run"-themed films to the contrary, that animals really would not know the difference and probably don't keep Holocaust-survivor style diaries about "life before the farm." Thus the anthropomorphization of these animals and the suggestion that our treatment of them doesn't accord to their "rights" is really disproportionate to the level of awareness of their lives and fate they could have. Since rights are not natural but constructed by man, awarding them selectively to certain animals because we think we should be "better than that" is quite silly. Some vegetarians have said to me that the only way they could condone the killing of animals is the sacrifice of all the social and literal constructions that gives mankind the morbid advantage in the natural world. This is Noble Savage poppycock. We built our advantages and have the right to use them just as a lion has the right to use their claws the better to rip at an animal carcass.

Since morality in all its convuluted form is a human invention, it strikes me as silly to ascribe it to a matter of survival such as nourishment and the interaction of man with other animal species on the earth. There are a lot of double standards and philosophical holes in the "I am a vegetarian for animal rights" viewpoint. If anything, you should be a vegetarian only because of percieved nutritional benefits. That's the only way it makes sense, frankly.

LOL LONG POST BY CAIN

[italic zero]

I don't get why animals should have rights, but I don't really care what anyone else eats.

[Reaganista]

animal rights... eggs, dairy

that's cool lol.

[Against Miik!]

You could always go organic with the meats. There are lots of good things in meats for you. I suggest at least eating fish and chicken. Leaving red meat out is ok if you want.

[MAthiAS]

It's this way no matter what lifestyle you pick. A vegeterian lifestyle still demands an immense amount of mass harvesting of vegetables and so-called "natural" foodstuffs that don't require as much carving as meat does. Fine, but it eats up the land and the soil just the same, and no matter which way you spin it there are many tangible benefits to eating meat that simply do not exist in other foods.
Obviously food of any kind requires land... yet it requires less resources to produce for a vegetarian than a meateater. I'm not sure where your point is there.

Could you specify some benefits that exist only with eating meats? On the downside though, there's the hormones, additives, preservatives, diseases, etc.

[Against Miik!]

We could feed the United States 6 times over with all the grain that cows and other animals eat that we carve up for meat.

But we wouldn't do that anyways so it doesn't matter. However, that land could be put to use for growing corn for ethanol fuel. That would be the most efficient thing to do, but we as Americans would build malls on it.

[PepsiMetal]

I don't get why animals should have rights, but I don't really care what anyone else eats.

Would you feel the pain if you were skinned alive? Well so do animals.

[Jharaski]

We could feed the United States 6 times over with all the grain that cows and other animals eat that we carve up for meat.

But we wouldn't do that anyways so it doesn't matter. However, that land could be put to use for growing corn for ethanol fuel. That would be the most efficient thing to do, but we as Americans would build malls on it.

Or just go with veal instead, with only a few mama cows. Less grain needed. :)

[Against Miik!]

Or just go with veal instead, with only a few mama cows. Less grain needed. :)

I don't eat veal anyways, but I like the way you think. Actually I don't even think they let the baby cows out in the fields. I think they usually tie them up to a 3 foot leash and feed them controlled amounts. However, I this isn't why I don't eat veal. I just don't like the taste.

[Cain]

Obviously food of any kind requires land... yet it requires less resources to produce for a vegetarian than a meateater. I'm not sure where your point is there.

A lot of the vegetarians I've met are basically animal lovers, which often finds them in the same camps that are forever protesting against species extinction due to land use by man. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm totally on their side on that issue: but next to none of them can bother to grow their own vegetables, which means their whole edifice of "fighting meat" is a corrupt entity in at least one important sense, because they're still supporting the industry that mutually creates both and which will not stop based on a few isolated boycotts.

Could you specify some benefits that exist only with eating meats? On the downside though, there's the hormones, additives, preservatives, diseases, etc.

Those could be downsides if you ate too much meat. And really, the tangible benefit comes from eating meat with vegetables in a balanced diet. We're omnivorous and our bodies are designed for a comfortable nutrient intake that depends on the wide varieties of foods our bodies have become genetically accustomed to. We're not designed for pure vegetarianism or pure carnivorism. You can possibly make up for the technical amount of protein that you lose by avoiding meat by simply consuming the proportionate quantity of protein-rich vegetables, but how much of it your body would absorb would be difficult to discern: it would definitely take adjustment at first, anyway, and then your stomach would only become accustomed to gaining nutrients in that specific way (which is not neccesarily the most efficient way) and then lose the ability to gain it from the sources abandoned at a later date, which means that on the off chance you are somehow absorbing every nutrient you've lost by forsaking meat, you are certainly not doing it in the most efficient way and your body has had to alter its natural chemistry to compensate, which probably means you're not getting it all.

What's so wrong with trying to keep a balanced diet that incorporates a wide variety of foods?

[Cain]

Would you feel the pain if you were skinned alive? Well so do animals.

And if I didn't have the ability to get a gun (which is as outlandish as the possibility that I might be skinned alive) I would feel the same pain an antelope feels if a lion bit into my defenseless jugular. These comparisons are ridiculous because animals have no morality other than their natures and instincts: it is an entirely human construction that is almost completely irrelevant for dealing with anything other than humans. We are alone among species in arriving at moral standards for situations we find ourselves in, and they are only relevant when dealing with ourselves. Nobody talks about how immoral it is that sharks sometimes kill humans even though they aren't their typical prey source. The notion is ridiculous because they're NOT HUMAN. Similarly, you can't attribute our social constructions on the morality of pain infliction to what animals feel and act as though it equates to the same level of right and wrong. It simply does not.

As a human with the weight of civilization modifying my nature, I would argue that the experience of pain infliction by man has an entirely different effect on me than it does for a cow.

[PepsiMetal]

Skinning animals alive is absolutely unnecessary yet it is being done.

It has nothing to do with the fact that people kill animals. It's just the unnecessary stupid ways people kill these animals.

[MAthiAS]

A lot of the vegetarians I've met are basically animal lovers, which often finds them in the same camps that are forever protesting against species extinction due to land use by man. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm totally on their side on that issue: but next to none of them can bother to grow their own vegetables, which means their whole edifice of "fighting meat" is a corrupt entity in at least one important sense, because they're still supporting the industry that mutually creates both and which will not stop based on a few isolated boycotts.
That last point is a good one. I see this as a 'lesser of two evils' scenario. I guess the 'grow your own vegetables' initiative isn't promoted much, probably because its not the first step.

Those could be downsides if you ate too much meat. And really, the tangible benefit comes from eating meat with vegetables in a balanced diet. We're omnivorous and our bodies are designed for a comfortable nutrient intake that depends on the wide varieties of foods our bodies have become genetically accustomed to. We're not designed for pure vegetarianism or pure carnivorism. You can possibly make up for the technical amount of protein that you lose by avoiding meat by simply consuming the proportionate quantity of protein-rich vegetables, but how much of it your body would absorb would be difficult to discern: it would definitely take adjustment at first, anyway, and then your stomach would only become accustomed to gaining nutrients in that specific way (which is not neccesarily the most efficient way) and then lose the ability to gain it from the sources abandoned at a later date, which means that on the off chance you are somehow absorbing every nutrient you've lost by forsaking meat, you are certainly not doing it in the most efficient way and your body has had to alter its natural chemistry to compensate, which probably means you're not getting it all.
Since I've never seen any real numbers on this supposed lessened efficiency, it would still make more sense from the standpoint of society of a whole, for efficient use of resources through vegetarianism which I'm fairly certain would outweigh these benefits for the individual.

What's so wrong with trying to keep a balanced diet that incorporates a wide variety of foods?
Not much if the meat isn't the product of factory farms, which 90% of the time it isn't. Though personally I feel that consuming animals at all is largely unnecessary, so I don't take part in it.

And if I didn't have the ability to get a gun (which is as outlandish as the possibility that I might be skinned alive) I would feel the same pain an antelope feels if a lion bit into my defenseless jugular. These comparisons are ridiculous because animals have no morality other than their natures and instincts: it is an entirely human construction that is almost completely irrelevant for dealing with anything other than humans. We are alone among species in arriving at moral standards for situations we find ourselves in, and they are only relevant when dealing with ourselves. Nobody talks about how immoral it is that sharks sometimes kill humans even though they aren't their typical prey source. The notion is ridiculous because they're NOT HUMAN. Similarly, you can't attribute our social constructions on the morality of pain infliction to what animals feel and act as though it equates to the same level of right and wrong. It simply does not.
Why don't morals apply with humans acting towards animals? They're humanly constructed so they are valid with human actions, regardless of what's being acted against. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Cain]

Why don't morals apply with humans acting towards animals? They're humanly constructed so they are valid with human actions, regardless of what's being acted against. Maybe I'm missing something.

But the animal feels none of those conceptions, which means their experience of pain is probably different, more elemental, and less tied up with our notions of right and wrong. Pain for humans brings with it a host of psychological and emotional reactions that are dictated by our more advanced brain chemistry and natures in addition to a host of other consequences brought on by how the circumstances of the infliction of pain interact with our socially constructed views on society: the process of being skinned by a person who said they loved you, for instance, would probably incite different reactions than the process of being skinned by a hated enemy, and which would make the pain "more painful" in certain ways, and the action by the perpetrator more or less "immoral" as a result, all very tied up with uniquely human experiences, feelings, and emotions. The cow probably doesn't feel this. My point is that it doesn't seem right to attribute essentially human emotions and values to an animal that doesn't feel them and use it as an argument for different treatment. It does more harm than good to the point, because it's a very tenuous point to defend in a real context. As I said:

As a human with the weight of civilization modifying my nature, I would argue that the experience of pain infliction by man has an entirely different effect on me than it does for a cow.

Now, to your first sentence: they DO apply, sometimes. In my opinion, morality gets brought into man's treatment of animals when they kill them for purposes that are undeniably tied up with nonessential gains and the corresponding emotional values, such as greed. For instance, killing elephants only for their ivory, and wild cats only for their pelts. In our society, we have more than enough resources to come up with replacements for whatever value can be gained from these natural resources and therefore it's totally wanton. There's much less basis for a moral judgement when it comes to how we eat, because nutrition is a neccesity and pain inflicted from a knife is probably not that different from pain inflicted by a tooth or a claw, and since cows, as I said, don't quite grasp the implications in its own killing that you do, it's almost quite the same from that perspective as any other way that we could concievably kill an animal to eat it. I mean, what inspires us to feel sympathy for the suffering of a cow being skinned in a slaughterhouse? Human psychology, tied up inextricably with our constructed values based on pain. The cow does not feel that way precisely in all liklihood.

[Reaganista]

I'd bring up the valuable future argument if I really bought it.

But I'd say that the only right we can practically give animals is that they shouldn't have to suffer simply for the sake of their own suffering. Which is why PETA should be shut down.

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

:/

[spitfirejunky]

So. I'm a vegetarian. I mainly did it for animal rights, but then it comes with added benefits such as a healther diet and lifestyle. However, it gets a lot of criticism from outsiders. The main argument against vegetarianism is people who are vegetarians don't get enough protein. This argument is so retarded because it's so untrue. Protein is also available in nuts, tofu, eggs, dairy, and a lot of vegetables. All of which I eat.. I love tofu. Anyway, my parents are really pissed as of late, literally telling me, "NO! You can't be a vegetarian. You'll get sick and your hair will lose its shine because of lack of protein." I feel like punching them.

What are your views on it?

You strip yourself of 12 essential amino acids. I agree that vegetarianism is healthy, but it should entail cutting down your intake of meat, not permanently cropping it out.

[BassRevelation1029]

I think you'll do just fine as a vegetarian. However, im down with the real peta: people eating tasty animals

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

your hair will lose its shine because of lack of protein.Probably complete BS.
I have no problem with people doing it, so long as they stay out of my business.Yes.
LOL LONG POST BY CAIN123

[Aklerc]

Two of my friends are vegetarians and I'm fine with it. We get into the occasional argument about animal rights (my dad is manager of a meat indusrty) and I get mad when they start going on about 'Did you know Macdonalds put the toes of kanagroos in their burgers?' seriously I think they are a bit naive sometimes. But apart from that we're cool with each other. They don't mind me eating me around them and I don't mind them eating tofu around me.

[The_Passenger]

Eh, I don't mind vegetarians (as long as they don't tell I'm evil and cruel for eating meat) but I don't really see the point in it. Sure it's healthy, but eating meat can be as well.

I don't get the animal rights arguement though. Saying its immoral to kill animals implies that animals have morals, when they don't (this point was explained in far more detail by Cain). This moral code isn't applied to animals that eat other animals, either, which is hypocritical.

[Reaganista]

Two of my friends are vegetarians and I'm fine with it. We get into the occasional argument about animal rights (my dad is manager of a meat indusrty) and I get mad when they start going on about 'Did you know Macdonalds put the toes of kanagroos in their burgers?' seriously I think they are a bit naive sometimes. But apart from that we're cool with each other. They don't mind me eating me around them and I don't mind them eating tofu around me.
mcdonald's fries are made out of baby seal skin and dolphin blowholes.

and a lot of salt

[Happy]

I've been vegetarian for 11 years.
I started because as a wee kid I was like "oh no animals dying" and over time I grew out of it and I guess now I'm only a vegetarian because it's healthier...

[dei]

I am a vegetarian because it gets me scene points, and I like getting scene points.

In all seriousness, I first became a vegetarian so I could live healthier. I noticed how much junk and stuff I was taking in and I wanted to cut that out completely, so I decided to try vegetarianism. After a couple of months, I grew into one of those vegetarians, and now I can't see myself ever eating meat ever again.

It's been four years since I've gone vegetarian. I might go vegan soon.

[BassRevelation1029]

I am a vegetarian because it gets me scene points, and I like getting scene points.


LoL

[lfantwister]

Ive been a veggie for 11 years, its just habit now. I'm sure ill go normal eventually maybe

[thrashfanatic2010]

vegetarianism is just a form of trendy idiocy just like the straight edge movement.

Ask any nutritionist or health professional and a certain amoung of meat in a diet is essential.

[Rats!]

Vegetarianism is a disease.

[prurient]

Vegetarianism is a disease.
I am going to beat you up.

[idspispopd]

I think people can eat whatever they want because it's their choice :rolleyes:

[MAthiAS]

vegetarianism is just a form of trendy idiocy just like the straight edge movement.

Ask any nutritionist or health professional and a certain amoung of meat in a diet is essential.

Vegetarianism is a disease.

Why can't you be more like Cain?

[CabbageStabbage]

I have a vegan friend, he doesn't bother me most of the time, we joke around that meat is tasty, he says stuff, etc.

Ideally, I'd continue eating meat, but hunt it or get some locally-grown organic type stuff. But for now I'm dependent on parents and whatever.

Which is more painful, by the way, for the animal? An arrow or a cut throat? Because some see hunting as "better" than domestication.

[Curtis89]

What makes vegetarianism so much healthier than eating meat and fruits/vegetables?

[MAthiAS]

I have a vegan friend, he doesn't bother me most of the time, we joke around that meat is tasty, he says stuff, etc.

Ideally, I'd continue eating meat, but hunt it or get some locally-grown organic type stuff. But for now I'm dependent on parents and whatever.

Which is more painful, by the way, for the animal? An arrow or a cut throat? Because some see hunting as "better" than domestication.
Its not so much the pain as that hunting (with bow+arrow) is fair game (provided its not one of those 'buy your game and we'll set it off when you're near and get chemical crap to draw animals near') and natural, also assuming that you're not hunting for sport. In the case of a factory farm, for me the real issue (talking pain) is the conditions up until death.

What makes vegetarianism so much healthier than eating meat and fruits/vegetables?
Depends how much and where from the meat is.

[Rats!]

I am going to beat you up.
I break vegetarians in half.

[CabbageStabbage]

Its not so much the pain as that hunting (with bow+arrow) is fair game (provided its not one of those 'buy your game and we'll set it off when you're near and get chemical crap to draw animals near') and natural, also assuming that you're not hunting for sport. In the case of a factory farm, for me the real issue (talking pain) is the conditions up until death.


Depends how much and where from the meat is.

But what if it's NOT a factory farm, but a free-range organic hippie/15th-century type of farm? Then is it more wrong to farm than hunt?

[-1up!-]

Being vegetarian while tolerating hunting makes no sense at all.

[Cain]

Being vegetarian while tolerating hunting makes no sense at all.

Unless of course you're a vegetarian for purely health reasons. In addition, some people argue that working for your meat through hunting it (which, as Chuck Norris fans know, implies the possibility of failure) is more "just" somehow than harvesting it, because it's truer to a natural order as opposed to a modification of our natural environment.

[EinzingerIsGod]

I'm moving in with two vegetarian roommates this week. I plan on not becoming vegetarian myself, and would never become vegan because I enjoy my milk, but it should be interesting to see how my diet changes living with them.

[MAthiAS]

Unless of course you're a vegetarian for purely health reasons. In addition, some people argue that working for your meat through hunting it (which, as Chuck Norris fans know, implies the possibility of failure) is more "just" somehow than harvesting it, because it's truer to a natural order as opposed to a modification of our natural environment.
Its, technically I suppose, more just, but its bastardized to the point that hunting is wrong in just about all cases in my eyes. But its obviously stupid to say that hunting isn't part of the natural world... but for humans its not necessary to hunt (today) like its not necessary to farm animals.

But what if it's NOT a factory farm, but a free-range organic hippie/15th-century type of farm? Then is it more wrong to farm than hunt?
Yeah.

[Syncratic]

Being vegetarian while tolerating hunting makes no sense at all.

Only if you're one of those fringe, PETA freaks, than yes.

[Merkaba]

So. I'm a vegetarian. I mainly did it for animal rights, but then it comes with added benefits such as a healther diet and lifestyle. However, it gets a lot of criticism from outsiders. The main argument against vegetarianism is people who are vegetarians don't get enough protein. This argument is so retarded because it's so untrue. Protein is also available in nuts, tofu, eggs, dairy, and a lot of vegetables. All of which I eat.. I love tofu. Anyway, my parents are really pissed as of late, literally telling me, "NO! You can't be a vegetarian. You'll get sick and your hair will lose its shine because of lack of protein." I feel like punching them.

What are your views on it?
I know a few vegetarians that live unhealthy and are still overweight. Many people eat worse because they consider themselves vegetarians. Now if youre pure vegan, thats a whole different fruit.

I used to be veggie for a year or so. I still dont eat alot of meat but i lost too much weight to stay veggie. I did it for the health reasons not the peta reasons. I'll stick a fork in a pet in a minute. If you put it on a charcoal grill I'll eat every part of a cow besides the moo.

[MAthiAS]

Anecdotal evidence and unnecessary statements, woo!

[Seafroggys]

my parents were 'vegetarians' for years, though they ate seafood (hence the quotes). It was just a lifestyle choice for them, they didn't even think differently about those who ate meat (like my brother and I did).

[spitfirejunky]

Being vegetarian while tolerating hunting makes no sense at all.

So you can't simply not like meat?

[Steerpike]

Personally, I love dairy and meat too much to go vegetarian, but I'm not going to tell people what they can and can't put in their bodies.

Of course, if any of those PETA wackos show up to give me crap about how I'm evil because I can't stop loving steak, I will not think twice to crush their throats with my bare hands.

On the topic of farming animals, I no longer eat at KFC because I prefer to eat something that's not forced to live by consuming its own dead. Also, if you tell me that you're selling me chicken, it better genetically speaking be an actual chicken. I always do some checking on where the meat comes from before I go to any chain restaurant. Usually, the smaller family-run bistros are cool.

The only problem I have with vegetarians, and I know I'm just going to be echoing this sentiment, is the holier-than-thou crowd of animal rights "activists" who don't seem to understand that their demented, whisper-thin antics are not going to make me stop putting milk on my cereal.

[Merkaba]

Anecdotal evidence and unnecessary statements, woo!
Do you even know what anecdotal means? The whole thread is unnecessary according to some peoples opinions I'm sure. So **** off if you dont like my reply. I'm glad I could push your buttons enough to make you respond accordingly. Robots. Sheep. :rolleyes: :thumb:

[Steerpike]

Do you even know what anecdotal means? The whole thread is unnecessary according to some peoples opinions I'm sure. So **** off if you dont like my reply. I'm glad I could push your buttons enough to make you respond accordingly. Robots. Sheep. :rolleyes: :thumb:

Sheep are tastier, though. Robots just rise up and try to kill you.

[the-UK-ska-scene]

I am a vegetarian. Simply because, I went off meat at the time, and I feel a lot healthier for having to subsidise other things for meat. It means I eat more vegetation now. Also, I get to play the morally superior card, but I rarely do that, and even rarer still do I actually care either way about meat eaters.

Lately I've been eating a lot more meat substitutes than I ever ate before, I guess it helps me get more protein but it also costs a hell of a lot of money. I am also a bit of a **** vegetarian because I eat fish, but honestly I am such a bad cook/dietician that I could not figure myself out a good diet which is equal in everything I need and most importantly cheap without factoring fish in.

My parents are like, the opposite of supportive. Well my mum was ok, but she never cooks in my house, it was all my dad who was bad. Like, a little over a year after I went vegetarian, he fed me these potatoes with bits of bacon in, and threw away the packet so I couldn't tell, but of course I could cus there were these little bits of bacon in it. But since I've been a vegetarian for over two years now, and I moved out of home a few months ago for uni, he seems to have accepted it.

But yeah I tend to find I eat more veg now, I mean if I'd gone to uni as a meat eater I would've had meat every meal as that's what I did before. But now I have a lot more variation, and tend to get my 5 fruit and veg a day at least.


EDIT: oh and I believe animal testing is for the most part essential, and those hardline animal rights activists who put human lives after animal lives are crazy. Saying that, stuff like deforestation for the sake of human advancement is obviously stupid, as we destroy hundreds of species a day for the sake of burning wood.

[DBoons Ghost]

Vegetables are alive too.. They are mistreated all the time.. Random lettuce plants left to starve.. no sunshine.. no water.. It's horrible. I can hear the lettuce heads and cabbage heads screaming at me in their sleep..

Make them stop..

[Aklerc]

What annoys me id the people that see like one video of an animal being abused- decide that's how all animals are treated and become vegetarian because of it. They see stands in town asking for donations to stop animal testing or whatever and give a couple of quid, but just look past at the guy with his donation pot for Oxfam or the NSPCC and walk straight past.

[Steerpike]

That's the way PETA wants it, though. They use their radical scare tactics to convince people the food industry is a horrific, evil place. They hate humans and care about animals, which is why they didn't think twice about trivializing the Holocaust with their asinine ad campaign.

People like that just make me sick.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

True Fact: PETA opposes having animals as pets

[Steerpike]

True Fact: PETA opposes having animals as pets

They also oppose animal testing (even though one of their top members hypocritically uses insulin to treat her diabetes), circuses, hunting, fishing, horseback riding, kennels, stray shelters... hell, if it involves humans somehow interacting with animals at all, PETA seems to have a problem with it.

I've done more for the humane treatment of animals in my ten years working with greyhound rescue services than PETA has in their entire existence.

[MAthiAS]

Do you even know what anecdotal means?
Yes, thank you.
The whole thread is unnecessary according to some peoples opinions I'm sure. So **** off if you dont like my reply. I'm glad I could push your buttons enough to make you respond accordingly. Robots. Sheep.
Statements like yours are why this thread will probably get closed. Speaking of which, we should probably chill now.'

On the topic of farming animals, I no longer eat at KFC because I prefer to eat something that's not forced to live by consuming its own dead. Also, if you tell me that you're selling me chicken, it better genetically speaking be an actual chicken. I always do some checking on where the meat comes from before I go to any chain restaurant. Usually, the smaller family-run bistros are cool.
Respectable.

The only problem I have with vegetarians, and I know I'm just going to be echoing this sentiment, is the holier-than-thou crowd of animal rights "activists" who don't seem to understand that their demented, whisper-thin antics are not going to make me stop putting milk on my cereal.
Yeah, like I said before, its unfortunate. Particularly from my standpoint since I support the cause, the overzealous aren't doing any favors for animals. Like how many of you have converted because of Jehovah's Witnesses?


EDIT: oh and I believe animal testing is for the most part essential, and those hardline animal rights activists who put human lives after animal lives are crazy. Saying that, stuff like deforestation for the sake of human advancement is obviously stupid, as we destroy hundreds of species a day for the sake of burning wood.
Yeah. Animals shouldn't be tested for cosmetics though.

What annoys me id the people that see like one video of an animal being abused- decide that's how all animals are treated and become vegetarian because of it. They see stands in town asking for donations to stop animal testing or whatever and give a couple of quid, but just look past at the guy with his donation pot for Oxfam or the NSPCC and walk straight past.
That's the way PETA wants it, though. They use their radical scare tactics to convince people the food industry is a horrific, evil place. They hate humans and care about animals, which is why they didn't think twice about trivializing the Holocaust with their asinine ad campaign.

People like that just make me sick.
Yeah it sucks... there's idiots on both sides, though I suppose that's implicit with life.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

PETA also funds animal-rights terrorists

[prurient]

I saw a video of an animal getting ****ed up, and I decided I would become a vegetarian.

[BassRevelation1029]

God said i can eat meat.

so i do

[Steerpike]

God said i can eat meat.

so i do

Hell, I don't even need that. I see a steak, and it looks delicious. That's all the excuse I need.

In regards to animal testing in cosmetics, I do agree that it's a stupid idea and should be shut down. Medical research is an important, on-going scientific effort for the greater good. Cosmetics is a multi-billion dollar vanity industry.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

What if the cosmetics testing ensures that people will not be harmed by the products?

[Steerpike]

What if the cosmetics testing ensures that people will not be harmed by the products?

It's pretty easy to do that without animals. To my knowledge, it's largely based on ensuring that you have no known allergens in your products, or put a warning label on in the case that there are any.

[Nra4ever_17]

Vegetables are alive too.. They are mistreated all the time.. Random lettuce plants left to starve.. no sunshine.. no water.. It's horrible. I can hear the lettuce heads and cabbage heads screaming at me in their sleep..

Make them stop..

Haha, someone listened to Disgustipated recently.



I'm a vegetarian, and it is out of morals (I don't believe it's right to eat meat when it's completely unneccessary, which in my situation it is). However, PETA are idiots. So are Maddox-worshipping "L0L F0R 3V3RY 4N1M4L YU0 D0N'T 34T 1 W1LL 34T THR33" sheep. Come to think of it, lots of people with strong opinions on this subject are dumb. I don't give people crap for eating meat, and if they are not in some way retarded they don't give me crap for not eating it. I believe it's immoral but it's entirely possible I am wrong.

[Jharaski]

If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

Or as Hank Hill says.. If God didn't want us to eat steak, why did he make steak sauce taste so good?

[Cain]

PETA's goin' ta hell.

Reminds me of that argument: if God didn't want us to have sex, why did he invent the orgasm?

You know, apparently Adam and Eve only became ashamed of nakedness when the Devil corrupted them. No doubt the Devil is therefore responsible for sexual arousal, as private areas became forbidden, thus desired and lusted after.

Perhaps he invented the orgasm too, to tempt us from God's path. You know, the Devil's my kinda guy. Good for PETA. :)

Now for the next question assuming the above is true: if the Devil's so evil, why would he make breasts look so beautiful?

Ready...go!

[Jharaski]

PETA's goin' ta hell.

Reminds me of that argument: if God didn't want us to have sex, why did he invent the orgasm?

You know, apparently Adam and Eve only became ashamed of nakedness when the Devil corrupted them. No doubt the Devil is therefore responsible for sexual arousal, as private areas became forbidden, thus desired and lusted after.

Perhaps he invented the orgasm too, to tempt us from God's path. You know, the Devil's my kinda guy. Good for PETA. :)

Now for the next question assuming the above is true: if the Devil's so evil, why would he make breasts look so beautiful?

Ready...go!


To tempt us and take us to hell :(

[italic zero]

Breasts are a lot like apples.

[Cain]

Breasts are a lot like apples.

I disagree. Apples are hard and grow on trees. Breasts are soft and grow on women.

[Jharaski]

I disagree. Apples are hard and grow on trees. Breasts are soft and grow on women.

...+ but make men hard.

[italic zero]

I disagree. Apples are hard and grow on trees. Breasts are soft and grow on women.
I don't know man. In all my erotic fantasy novels they say, 'her breasts were not large, but high and apple-sized; the kind that would make a monk give up his celibacy'

[Danish]

Reminds me of that argument: if God didn't want us to have sex, why did he invent the orgasm?

You know, apparently Adam and Eve only became ashamed of nakedness when the Devil corrupted them. No doubt the Devil is therefore responsible for sexual arousal, as private areas became forbidden, thus desired and lusted after.

That's only true in some cultures. In many cultures, nudity is accepted and celebrated.

**********

Cain, I think you and I ought to have a debate.

[italic zero]

hell get zoroaster in there for a three way

[Jharaski]

That's only true in some cultures. In many cultures, nudity is accepted and celebrated.

**********

Cain, I think you and I ought to have a debate.

Yes, but tell that to a hXc Christian and they'll say those cultures are evil and perverted.

[Danish]

Yes, but tell that to a hXc Christian and they'll say those cultures are evil and perverted.

Crazy ethnocentric talk!

hell get zoroaster in there for a three way

No thanks!

Besides, I didn't mean about this topic.

[Cain]

Cain, I think you and I ought to have a debate.

What about? Vegetarianism? Or breasts?

[Danish]

What about? Vegetarianism? Or breasts?

:lol: Well, I was thinking something completely different. I think I'm going to start a thread and see what everyone thinks we should debate. After the debate, we'll get everyone to vote on a winner.

[Steerpike]

Boobies ftw!

At this point, breasts are a much more interesting subject than PETA.

[Cain]

:lol: Well, I was thinking something completely different. I think I'm going to start a thread and see what everyone thinks we should debate. After the debate, we'll get everyone to vote on a winner.

Eh, yikes. I'd lose probably. I don't know anything about how to refute socialistic arguments and I'm not quite sure I'd want to in the event.

I really don't know all that much about anything except wars. Much of my political discussion is intuitive. Anyways, why me? There are smarter people, people who are better at arguing here.

[Danish]

We should have a big boobs vs. small boobs debate!

[Danish]

Eh, yikes. I'd lose probably. I don't know anything about how to refute socialistic arguments and I'm not quite sure I'd want to in the event.

I really don't know all that much about anything except wars. Much of my political discussion is intuitive. Anyways, why me? There are smarter people, people who are better at arguing here.

I've read some of the things you've posted. I think you're one of the smartest people here. I think we'd have a pretty even debate.

We don't have to debate economics. We could debate anything you want.

[Cain]

I've read some of the things you've posted. I think you're one of the smartest people here. I think we'd have a pretty even debate.

We don't have to debate economics. We could debate anything you want.

Why thanks. That's quite nice for you to say. :)

We can give it a try if you really want. I just rather like informal competition better. ;)

[Danish]

Why thanks. That's quite nice for you to say. :)

We can give it a try if you really want. I just rather like informal competition better. ;)

We don't have to have formal rules. We could just take turns for three rounds.

I'm gonna make a thread, we'll discuss it there.

[Rounder]

Its obvious to me because of my canines that I was intended for meat. (that and the fact that meat tastes so good). However if someone wants to be a veggie thats cool to. More Cow meat for me. The thing I find kinda funny is those vegans who eat eggs. No matter what way you look at it. You are eating an animal. Just because it aint what you think of as meat is irrelevant. Along with those who just eat fish. I have a vegan friend who will everyonce in a while secretly beg me to go to mcds for a double cheese lol....

[PerpetualBurn]

Eggs aren't meat. That's a completey stupid thing to say.

[Rounder]

Eggs aren't meat. That's a completey stupid thing to say.

what's stupid is I never said EGGS ARE MEAT. I said EGGS ARE ANIMALS. CHICKIN EMBRYOS TO BE PRECISE. YOU EAT EGG-YOU EAT CHICKIN.

[Curtis89]

what's stupid is I never said EGGS ARE MEAT. I said EGGS ARE ANIMALS. CHICKIN EMBRYOS TO BE PRECISE. YOU EAT EGG-YOU EAT CHICKIN.

Isn't that like saying swallowing cum is like eating humans?

[Steerpike]

Technically, the eggs you buy at the supermarket were never going to become chickens because they were never fertilized by a rooster.

[Rounder]

Isn't that like saying swallowing cum is like eating humans?

Sperm is not an embryo. Its more like saying eating a fetus would be considered cannabalism.

[MAthiAS]

Again guys, whether or not the eggs are technically animals or whatever isn't really the point. Its the conditions the chickens are kept in for the most part. And yes I know you'll say 'cage free farm fresh', I honestly don't know much thereafter, not being a vegan (yet?) myself. Though obviously these reasons differ for different people.

[Samuel]

Sperm is not an embryo. Its more like saying eating a fetus would be considered cannabalism.
Neither are commercial eggs.

[italic zero]

Again guys, whether or not the eggs are technically animals or whatever isn't really the point. Its the conditions the chickens are kept in for the most part. And yes I know you'll say 'cage free farm fresh', I honestly don't know much thereafter, not being a vegan (yet?) myself. Though obviously these reasons differ for different people.
Well yeah, because then you could eat a slaughtered newborn animal and justify because it didn't have to stay in bad conditions but I don't think that veggies would like that.

[MAthiAS]

Well yeah, because then you could eat a slaughtered newborn animal and justify because it didn't have to stay in bad conditions but I don't think that veggies would like that.
We're talking about eggs...

[PerpetualBurn]

what's stupid is I never said EGGS ARE MEAT. I said EGGS ARE ANIMALS. CHICKIN EMBRYOS TO BE PRECISE. YOU EAT EGG-YOU EAT CHICKIN.

How do you know so little about biology? How?

[italic zero]

We're talking about eggs...
You said the moral difficulty was in the conditions in which the animals were kept. Therefore you should have less of a problem eating newborns.

[PerpetualBurn]

The conditions of the animals are somewhat irrelevant. The conditions that hens for eggs are kept can be changed.

To eat meat, something HAS to be slaughtered. This is why some vegetarians become vegetarians.

Nothing has to die for you to get eggs. You could keep your own chickens in nice happy conditions and eat their eggs without harming any creature.

[italic zero]

That makes more sense, but it isn't what he said.

[PerpetualBurn]

Fair cop. Just making the point that it makes perfect sense for a vegetarian to eat eggs.

[MAthiAS]

You said the moral difficulty was in the conditions in which the animals were kept. Therefore you should have less of a problem eating newborns.
With eggs.

That makes more sense, but it isn't what he said.
That was my point though. Obviously you missed it.

Fair cop. Just making the point that it makes perfect sense for a vegetarian to eat eggs.
Yeah, except that they taste awful. :p

[PerpetualBurn]

Wrong. You can't have a fry up without a fried egg.

[Steerpike]

If you want to talk about the conditions the hens are kept in, just get your eggs at a farmer's market. They're generally cheaper, and the chickens are treated pretty well.

[italic zero]

With eggs.
You said "whether or not the eggs are animals isn't really the point"

[Hedgedive]

Haven't gotten the chance to read the whole thread.

Vegetarianism is fine. It's not for me. It's perfectly healthy, although I will argue that it's difficult to maintain weight if you're a guy (it can be done, though).

As far as animal rights. It's part of the food chain. I am, however, against breeding animals in captivity, just to be killed. That's really no life.

A lot of bacteria comes from milk/meat, so I can understand benefits, but it's still to much of a hassle, IMO.

[madeyadams]

To the egg discussion: The only reason why vegans wouldn't eat eggs is because no matter what, they still come from an animal. Even if the fetus inside the egg technically never was a fetus, it still came from an animal and was manipulated for human consumption. Vegetarians still eat eggs because it's not meat.

A lot of bacteria comes from milk/meat, so I can understand benefits, but it's still to much of a hassle, IMO.

I agree. I get extreme meat cravings now and then because I'm so used to eating it. Sometimes I'm really tempted to go to Subway and get a pastrami sandwich, haha. It's definately hard starting out. I think veganism is more of a hassle.. like no dairy. Man, I'm sorry, but I love milk. Milk is tasty and delicious. I could never be full on vegan, that takes a lot of will power.

[MAthiAS]

You said "whether or not the eggs are animals isn't really the point"
Well, as PerpetualBurn said, they're not, and that's not the reason people choose not to eat them.

I agree. I get extreme meat cravings now and then because I'm so used to eating it. Sometimes I'm really tempted to go to Subway and get a pastrami sandwich, haha. It's definately hard starting out. I think veganism is more of a hassle.. like no dairy. Man, I'm sorry, but I love milk. Milk is tasty and delicious. I could never be full on vegan, that takes a lot of will power.
Yeah definitely. With vegetarianism its not hard to just simply cut out meat. But going vegan really requires going out and finding new foods and substitutes.

[Lupus]

I believe it's morally wrong to kill animals for the purpose fo eating, but I don't claim to be a saint, so I eat meat anyway.

[dei]

I am a saint.

[PerpetualBurn]

I don't think it's at all wrong to raise and kill animals for food. Chickens would probably be the first thing to die out without us to raise them anyway. I do, however, have a problem with causing undue cruelty to animals, and I suppose I should really go veggie to avoid such a hypocrisy (as the conditions of battery hens and such are reprehensible), but I just like eating meat too much.

[Iskandar]

I'm not opposed to the slaughter of animals, but I am opposed to the meatpacking industry in general. Therefore there is very little meat I will eat.

[PepsiMetal]

As far as animal rights. It's part of the food chain. I am, however, against breeding animals in captivity, just to be killed. That's really no life.

It's not a food chain when idiotic farmers kick and beat animals to death cause they are pathetic little no life morons. Because those are unnecessary things. Killing animals without much suffering on the other hand would be a part of the food chain.

[Reaganista]

Killing animals without much suffering on the other hand would be a part of the food chain.
the pain of being eaten has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the food chain

[PepsiMetal]

the pain of being eaten has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the food chain

I was talking about how animals were killed not eaten.

[Reaganista]

uh huh

and in most natural food chains those things happen simultaneously

[PepsiMetal]

In which natural food chain did you see a large warehouse stuffed with sheep and cows where they basically have no room to take a **** and are waiting to be slaughtered?

[Iskandar]

In which natural food chain did you see a large warehouse stuffed with sheep and cows where they basically have no room to take a **** and are waiting to be slaughtered?
The one in which humans gained mastery over all other species.

[Reaganista]

In which natural food chain did you see a large warehouse stuffed with sheep and cows where they basically have no room to take a **** and are waiting to be slaughtered?
ours.

but that wasn't what I was really talking about go back and address my point

[PepsiMetal]

but that wasn't what I was really talking about go back and address my point

Onto your point, Animal actually had a life in the wild. In our case, animals are tortured, beaten, and cluttered basically their whole life.

Plus animals don't have the knowledge of making a gun and shooting another animal in the head, or cutting it's head off for immediate death. We humans do.

[Reaganista]

Onto your point, Animal actually had a life in the wild. In our case, animals are tortured, beaten, and cluttered basically their whole life.

no


Plus animals don't have the knowledge of making a gun and shooting another animal in the head, or cutting it's head off for immediate death. We humans do.
so

[PepsiMetal]

no

Actually yes. Do you think they keep animals free on the farms, and then later clutter them together? No. They clutter them for months or even years as it's cheaper to rent a large warehouse in the middle of nowhere than a farm with a grassland.

so

So if we have a knowledge to do something, shouldn't we use that knowledge? Afterall, that's what seperates us from animals.

[Reaganista]

Actually yes. Do you think they keep animals free on the farms, and then later clutter them together? No. They clutter them for months or even years as it's cheaper to rent a large warehouse in the middle of nowhere than a farm with a grassland.

how many farms have you been to?
how many farmers do you know?

So if we have a knowledge to do something, shouldn't we use that knowledge? Afterall, that's what seperates us from animals.
not if it wouldn't be to our advantage to use it.

[PepsiMetal]

how many farms have you been to?
how many farmers do you know?

That's irrelevant to this discussion.

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/

not if it wouldn't be to our advantage to use it.

So you could say it would be to our advantage if we just killed criminals and prisoners instead of spend billions of dollars to maintain jails?

[Aklerc]

In which natural food chain did you see a large warehouse stuffed with sheep and cows where they basically have no room to take a **** and are waiting to be slaughtered?
Grow up not every bloody abbatoir (sp?) is like that idiot.

I was talking about how animals were killed not eaten.
Cows get a bolt through their head. Very quick. Unlike in the natural world.

[Aklerc]

That's irrelevant to this discussion.

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/



So you could say it would be to our advantage if we just killed criminals and prisoners instead of spend billions of dollars to maintain jails?
Wow one whole website. Open your eyes.

[WhoDidTheElf]

That's irrelevant to this discussion.

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/


Question, have you ever lived on a farm? Or even worked on one?

[Reaganista]

hat's irrelevant to this discussion.

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/


wow one guy had charges filed against him.

of course, the fact that charges are being filed against him for this practice demonstrates that it's not the status quo of the industry and in fact flies in the face of what most agriculturalists are all about. thanks for discrediting your own argument.


So you could say it would be to our advantage if we just killed criminals and prisoners instead of spend billions of dollars to maintain jails?

how in the hell is that to our advantage, that's even more stupidly wasteful than leaving people in jail for most of their lives

[Nazi Bastard]

Holy jesus this thread is full of media dwelling faggots.

[USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST]

[Futue te Ipsum]

Onto your point, Animal actually had a life in the wild. In our case, animals are tortured, beaten, and cluttered basically their whole life. You have clearly never been to farm. From somebody who used to live on one: Come back when your opinion is informed kthxbi.

[PepsiMetal]

Grow up not every bloody abbatoir (sp?) is like that idiot.

Where did I say all farms are like this? :confused:

Cows get a bolt through their head. Very quick. Unlike in the natural world.

In many cases, what they do is hang cows upside down, and open their throats so that the blood drains out.

Wow one whole website. Open your eyes.

What do you mean? It's american's humane society.

Question, have you ever lived on a farm? Or even worked on one?

That's not relevant to this. And again, I never said all farms are like this, but many do break the rules, yet they're not being convicted.

wow one guy had charges filed against him.

of course, the fact that charges are being filed against him for this practice demonstrates that it's not the status quo of the industry and in fact flies in the face of what most agriculturalists are all about. thanks for discrediting your own argument.

Yes, charges are being filed after people report them to their state's representatives, and then after thousands of complains do they take action. What are you talking about one person being sued? If you looked at that site, you can see plenty cases.

how in the hell is that to our advantage, that's even more stupidly wasteful than leaving people in jail for most of their lives

You don't understand how saving billions of dollars from jail maintenance is to our advantage? :rolleyes:

You have clearly never been to farm. From somebody who used to live on one: Come back when your opinion is informed kthxbi.

So if one farm does things humanely, all do it? Grow up.

[Aklerc]

In many cases, what they do is hang cows upside down, and open their throats so that the blood drains out.
No they don't. My dad is manager of the biggest meat industry in the UK and Ireland and I've also worked at the factory in ICT, directly next to the abbatoir. I had an induction before starting work which involved a video of exactly how the cow is killed. They are brought into the abbatoir, have a bolt through the head, are hung upside down, have their stomachs cut out and blah blah blah. You are ignorant and have no diea what you are talking about- get your facts from a reliable source before arguing with me. The only exception is that of the Jewish way of killing in which to rid the animal of all the blood, known as Shechitah. They slit the throat- which is still a swift and quick way of killing the animal.

Also all of your arguments are in fact implying that you see the majority/all animals are treated like this so do not go back on your argument now.

[spitfirejunky]

Actually sentencing criminals to death is about as expensive (if not more expensive) than detaining them for life.

[PepsiMetal]

Actually sentencing criminals to death is about as expensive (if not more expensive) than detaining them for life.

Yea, but since killing animals doesn't have to be humane like some people in this thread think, then we can just line up the criminals and shoot them. A bullet is very cheap compared to the 1 year of feeding, security, etc... for that person.

BTW I in no way support this action, just as I don't support inhumane killing and treatment of animals.

No they don't. My dad is manager of the biggest meat industry in the UK and Ireland and I've also worked at the factory in ICT, directly next to the abbatoir. I had an induction before starting work which involved a video of exactly how the cow is killed. They are brought into the abbatoir, have a bolt through the head, are hung upside down, have their stomachs cut out and blah blah blah. You are ignorant and have no diea what you are talking about- get your facts from a reliable source before arguing with me. The only exception is that of the Jewish way of killing in which to rid the animal of all the blood, known as Shechitah. They slit the throat- which is still a swift and quick way of killing the animal.

I don't know, someone told me before they hang a cow upside down and cut it's throat so that blood drains out cause blood pressure is still high or something. Oh well.

Also all of your arguments are in fact implying that you see the majority/all animals are treated like this so do not go back on your argument now.

Nope. I never said or meant to imply that all farms do it. In fact, majority of farms are fine and follow regulations. I was saying there's absolutely no reason to torture, or keep animals in such a resticted space, and beleive it or not there are plenty of farms who do not care what government says, but are out there just to make as much money, as fast. And then some people replied to that initial post, which lead to this.

[Reaganista]

Yes, charges are being filed after people report them to their state's representatives, and then after thousands of complains do they take action. What are you talking about one person being sued? If you looked at that site, you can see plenty cases.

i'm not doing research for you, you aren't even a senator.


You don't understand how saving billions of dollars from jail maintenance is to our advantage?

leaving people in jail for a ridiculously long time, where they can sometimes work and then letting them out and putting them to work in the last years of their life is a stupid waste.

killing otherwise healthy adults who are fully capable of performing work and would be for decades to come is an even stupider waste.

rehabilitating the criminals as quickly as possible and then putting them to work again is the least wasteful option. unless their crime is completely victimless or they have a very low risk of reoffending in which case no rehabilitation would be necessary.

[PepsiMetal]

i'm not doing research for you, you aren't even a senator.

... ok? Still, some governors, officials, etc. won't do a thing about animal cruelty unless a good number of residents in that state complain.

-------------

According to the Criminal Justice Institute, it cost $20,224.65 to incarcerate one jail inmate for one year in 1997... (http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/one_million/onemillion.html)

That's probably more than a person that just got out of jail would make in 1997 anyways.

Anyways, regardless of what anybody thinks, I'd rather support humane killings, than inhumane ones whether it's going to cost me more money or not.

[Iscariot]

I don't support/believe in vegetarianism. If everyone on the planet were to stop eating meat, domestic livestock would naturally overproduce and a whole slew of unnecessary diseases would begin to spread as a result. We're supposed to eat meat because, according to the food chain, we play an important part in keeping the ecological balance in check.

[PerpetualBurn]

I don't know, someone told me before they hang a cow upside down and cut it's throat so that blood drains out cause blood pressure is still high or something. Oh well.

You shouldn't form such strong opinions on "someone told me something patently stupid".

[PerpetualBurn]

I don't support/believe in vegetarianism. If everyone on the planet were to stop eating meat, domestic livestock would naturally overproduce and a whole slew of unnecessary diseases would begin to spread as a result. We're supposed to eat meat because, according to the food chain, we play an important part in keeping the ecological balance in check.

We really don't keep the ecological balance in check at all. We breed our own food, so we don't affect most food chains by predation. We do of course ruin a lot of biodiversity by tearing down hedgerows for farming, deforestation, etc. etc.

[SubtleDagger]

I have a lot of vegetarian/vegan friends. I'm not... actually if anything I'm almost a straight carnivore; I'm likely to get scurvy in a few months at the rate I'm going. It doesn't really matter to either of us though given that they have their own motives for eating what they eat and I am very apathetic towards causes like theirs. It doesn't really concern either party.

[Reaganista]

... ok? Still, some governors, officials, etc. won't do a thing about animal cruelty unless a good number of residents in that state complain.


cops like to arrest/fine criminals. the more collars they have the more likely they are to get commendations and promotions. The more effecient a department is overall the more likely the boss is to keep his job and the more likely they'll get a bigger budget next year.

unless they're being bribed, in which case corruption is the problem, not raising livestock, any law enforcement official will prosecute people who practice illegal agriculture.

[MAthiAS]

I don't support/believe in vegetarianism. If everyone on the planet were to stop eating meat, domestic livestock would naturally overproduce and a whole slew of unnecessary diseases would begin to spread as a result. We're supposed to eat meat because, according to the food chain, we play an important part in keeping the ecological balance in check.
In addition to what PB was saying, that domestic livestock overpopulating notion is untrue.

[madeyadams]

I don't support/believe in vegetarianism. If everyone on the planet were to stop eating meat, domestic livestock would naturally overproduce and a whole slew of unnecessary diseases would begin to spread as a result. We're supposed to eat meat because, according to the food chain, we play an important part in keeping the ecological balance in check.

More like we're creating an unbalance. Each day ONE slaughterhouse produces 39,000 pounds of cattle waste. Meaning, the parts that aren't used for human consumption.. and that's just cattle alone. I don't know what the stats are for poultry and fish. It's actually quite disgusting if you read about slaugherhouses. I recommened you read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser, or The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Both of which tell how slaughterhouses are run.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I don't support/believe in vegetarianism. If everyone on the planet were to stop eating meat, domestic livestock would naturally overproduce and a whole slew of unnecessary diseases would begin to spread as a result. We're supposed to eat meat because, according to the food chain, we play an important part in keeping the ecological balance in check.
What would they eat?

[PerpetualBurn]

More like we're creating an unbalance. Each day ONE slaughterhouse produces 39,000 pounds of cattle waste. Meaning, the parts that aren't used for human consumption.. and that's just cattle alone. I don't know what the stats are for poultry and fish. It's actually quite disgusting if you read about slaugherhouses. I recommened you read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser, or The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Both of which tell how slaughterhouses are run.

Slaughter houses are as efficient as they possibly can be.

[madeyadams]

No they don't. My dad is manager of the biggest meat industry in the UK and Ireland and I've also worked at the factory in ICT, directly next to the abbatoir. I had an induction before starting work which involved a video of exactly how the cow is killed. They are brought into the abbatoir, have a bolt through the head, are hung upside down, have their stomachs cut out and blah blah blah. You are ignorant and have no diea what you are talking about- get your facts from a reliable source before arguing with me. The only exception is that of the Jewish way of killing in which to rid the animal of all the blood, known as Shechitah. They slit the throat- which is still a swift and quick way of killing the animal.

The U.S. and UK/Ireland regulations are very different from each other. First of all, each slaughterhouse contains primarily of ILLEGAL immigrant workers. The fact that these are illegal workers is what contributes to the regulations in the slaughterhouses. First of all, NO workers get ANY health insurance, and you'd think a job that involves cutting and knives that they would, but they don't. Why? Because it costs the company that owns the slaughterhouse money. Therefore, many injuries go unreported because workers are threatened that if they report injuries to their bosses, they'll get fired because the company will lose profit. And again, the fact that they are illegal immigrants will help because legal citizens wouldn't put up with that crap, they could easily find someplace to work that is humane. The slaughterhouse companies actually give them housing and food stamps in order to let them work for their company. They take a portion out of their paycheck to go to housing and food for their families, another incentive that makes workers stay. As for actual slaughtering, yes they do get hung upside down. First the cows come up to the wall and get either a bullet or injection in their head to make them unconcious, then the workers will swing them up from hook and slice them right down the middle and the pool of blood doesn't even get cleaned up until the end of the day. Then the carcass gets skinned, put on conveyer belts and the rest is up to the poor workers that kill 400 cattle in an hour.

[Atomic Rain]

if the roles were reversed, the animals would eat us.

[Dave de Sylvia]

The U.S. and UK/Ireland regulations are very different from each other. First of all, each slaughterhouse contains primarily of ILLEGAL immigrant workers. The fact that these are illegal workers is what contributes to the regulations in the slaughterhouses. First of all, NO workers get ANY health insurance, and you'd think a job that involves cutting and knives that they would, but they don't. Why? Because it costs the company that owns the slaughterhouse money. Therefore, many injuries go unreported because workers are threatened that if they report injuries to their bosses, they'll get fired because the company will lose profit. And again, the fact that they are illegal immigrants will help because legal citizens wouldn't put up with that crap, they could easily find someplace to work that is humane. The slaughterhouse companies actually give them housing and food stamps in order to let them work for their company. They take a portion out of their paycheck to go to housing and food for their families, another incentive that makes workers stay. As for actual slaughtering, yes they do get hung upside down. First the cows come up to the wall and get either a bullet or injection in their head to make them unconcious, then the workers will swing them up from hook and slice them right down the middle and the pool of blood doesn't even get cleaned up until the end of the day. Then the carcass gets skinned, put on conveyer belts and the rest is up to the poor workers that kill 400 cattle in an hour.
I bet that happens in like 4 abbatoires in Nigeria or somewhere.

[madeyadams]

It happens right here in the U.S. I read a book about it. Why would other countries employ so many illegal immigrants besides us? We're the top employer of illegal immigrants.

[italic zero]

More like we're creating an unbalance. Each day ONE slaughterhouse produces 39,000 pounds of cattle waste. Meaning, the parts that aren't used for human consumption.. and that's just cattle alone. I don't know what the stats are for poultry and fish. It's actually quite disgusting if you read about slaugherhouses. I recommened you read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser, or The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Both of which tell how slaughterhouses are run.
That second one is a little bit out of date.

[madeyadams]

It still applies.

[Dave de Sylvia]

It happens right here in the U.S. I read a book about it. Why would other countries employ so many illegal immigrants besides us? We're the top employer of illegal immigrants.
Well I wasn't denying that it's possible, I'm just not sure where you got the impression that it's widespread to the point of warranting comment.

[TheDMV]

So, would you eat a fish you caught yourself knowing that no cruelty went into the cooking of it?

[PerpetualBurn]

I read a book about it.

"Hippy Bilge for Beginners"?
"1001 Unfounded Claims"?

[madeyadams]

Well I wasn't denying that it's possible, I'm just not sure where you got the impression that it's widespread to the point of warranting comment.

Because it happens! My personal physician went to visit a slaughterhouse In Greeley, CO and she wrote a paper on it and gave it to me to read because I wanted to know.

"Hippy Bilge for Beginners"?
"1001 Unfounded Claims"?

Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser, and Diet for a Dead Planet by Christopher Crook.

[PerpetualBurn]

Right, and how exactly do they prove that abatoirs are all exploitative, abusive places? Because that's what you need to do. And do it without pointless name-dropping.

[madeyadams]

Right, and how exactly do they prove that abatoirs are all exploitative, abusive places? Because that's what you need to do. And do it without pointless name-dropping.

Did you not read my post earlier? Or I will type out what the book says, word for word if you really want me to.

[PerpetualBurn]

I didn't see the part where you demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of abatoirs are like the one you described, no.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I only saw the part where you indicated that one was like that, and that was hardly picked at random.

[madeyadams]

This is true that not all slaughterhouses are performed like the one I mentioned. I know this because a local grocery store owner I talked to says that his store only buys meat and seafood that were killed under the laws of the The Federal Humane Slaughter Act, 7 U.S.C. 1901-1906 ("HSA"), which was revised in 1978 and is still used today, obviously. I asked to see proof of this and he gladly showed me the contract, an actual document, showing that they were in business with those "humane" slaughterhouses. Well, whether they are regulated properly or not is a different story, but I'm willing to bet that most of them are. Now, companies like ConAgra (the biggest meat supplier in the US) doesn't always abide by that contract. Whic h is proof of it in these books.

[PerpetualBurn]

So, you're saying that most abatoirs do abide by the humane laws set out?
So what the hell is your problem?

[madeyadams]

what I'm saying is that there are a select few grocery store chains that actually make the extra effort to make sure their animals are treated with decency. That being the company of Whole Foods. Safeway, QFC, Albertsons, Vons, etc.. had no such contract.. why? Because they don't really care, they just want to sell their meat to the consumer. So, again.. if one slaugherhouse is operated under such horrible conditions, why can't there be more than one?

[Dave de Sylvia]

Why would they care?

[madeyadams]

Why wouldn't they! They're a company that's known for their certified organic and natural products, so why would they sell contaminated meat that wasn't packaged in a way that was humane to the animals?

"Whole Foods is widely known throughout the United States for its high quality natural food products, many of which qualify as certified organic. Many of their stores are certified humane by the Humane Farm Animal Care program, a collaborative program by organizations such as the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) and the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_foods

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat-poultry/index.html

[PerpetualBurn]

So, again.. if one slaugherhouse is operated under such horrible conditions, why can't there be more than one?

Surely you see what a stupid premise this is. It's conspiracy at best.

The vast majority of abatoirs are run in accordance with the law. Why? Because otherwise they'd get shut down.

Either demonstrate that there is a widespread problem with cruetly in abatoirs, or stop moaning about statistical anomalies that will no doubt be dealt with accordingly.

[Reaganista]

so why would they sell contaminated meat that wasn't packaged in a way that was humane to the animals
being mean to animals doesn't contaminate the meat.

[Reaganista]

It still applies.

omg READ UNCLE TOM'S CABIN TO SEE HOW BLACK PEOPLE ARE TREATED IN MODERN-DAY LOUSIANA

it applies!!!

[Hedgedive]

Vegetarian anthem. (http://66.254.99.158/content/1/0/b/10b1f88866ae612a02e39c3c906a0cae.mp3)

:D

[Iscariot]

It happens right here in the U.S. I read a book about it. Why would other countries employ so many illegal immigrants besides us? We're the top employer of illegal immigrants.

I like how because you read two biased books on the subject, you suddenly think you're an expert in the operation of every abatoir in the United States. When you can present real, actual evidence other than, "omg guys someone wrote a book about it so i totally believe it", then maybe someone will listen. I've seen those PETA videos and read their paperwork and the majority of it does not check out with the facts. PETA takes one or two isolated incidents, throws in a big helping of propaganda and spins a whole line of stories out of one single event.

I'm not denying there are a few less-than-adequate abatoirs across the United States, but it's not a raging epidemic like you seem to have been lead to believe.

Next time you shout out numbers, you should cite some actual sources of information. Factual information.

[Jody LeCompte]

I eat a lot of the meat substitutes a vegitarian would just because I dig the way soy and tofu products taste.

The reason Im not a vegetarian is, animals die anyway. End of story. We're nothing special, just another notch up in the food chain.

[Aklerc]

The U.S. and UK/Ireland regulations are very different from each other. First of all, each slaughterhouse contains primarily of ILLEGAL immigrant workers. The fact that these are illegal workers is what contributes to the regulations in the slaughterhouses. First of all, NO workers get ANY health insurance, and you'd think a job that involves cutting and knives that they would, but they don't. Why? Because it costs the company that owns the slaughterhouse money. Therefore, many injuries go unreported because workers are threatened that if they report injuries to their bosses, they'll get fired because the company will lose profit. And again, the fact that they are illegal immigrants will help because legal citizens wouldn't put up with that crap, they could easily find someplace to work that is humane. The slaughterhouse companies actually give them housing and food stamps in order to let them work for their company. They take a portion out of their paycheck to go to housing and food for their families, another incentive that makes workers stay. As for actual slaughtering, yes they do get hung upside down. First the cows come up to the wall and get either a bullet or injection in their head to make them unconcious, then the workers will swing them up from hook and slice them right down the middle and the pool of blood doesn't even get cleaned up until the end of the day. Then the carcass gets skinned, put on conveyer belts and the rest is up to the poor workers that kill 400 cattle in an hour.
My argument was purely for the UK and Ireland only. I don't give a toss about what happens in America.

[Jharaski]

well

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

/thread

[WhoDidTheElf]

well

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

/thread


Sums up my feelings.

[Aklerc]

well

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

/thread
:lol:

[Iskandar]

I hate Maddox with a fiery passion wrenched from the depths of the seventh level of Hell.

[Reaganista]

oh i think that means i'm a fan now

[ChickenStu]

Fantastic...more meat for me!

I think I will sponsor 3 or 4 vegitarians.

[Iskandar]

oh i think that means i'm a fan now
I also LOVE the Colbert Report and watch it religiously. Now you can't.

[Reaganista]

that's too much of a hardship for me

I guess I'll just have to become a commie

[Pint of stella]

Some animals are kept in cruel and viscious conditions, but that is not a reason to stop eating meat all together. As PETA will have you believe.

PETA are complete hypocrites. They only spend one percent of their multi-million annual budget on actually helping animals. They hire expert arsonists and criminals. They would also save a couple of rats over curing cancer and other severe diseases. They have also killed and brutalised many people. Also who would trust a group that has a bimbo like Pamela Anderson as a spokes person? Pure folly.

[Reaganista]

you're a liar

meat is murder

[Mr. Ron]

Animals don't have rights. They have privileges.

[Pint of stella]

you're a liar

meat is murder
Love the sarcasm.

[Reaganista]

Animals don't have rights. They have privileges
then no one has any rights

[Pint of stella]

What really pisses me off is when people become vegetarian out of fashion. Because their friends do it or a celeberity twat they admire does it. How ****ing stupid is that?

[Reaganista]

I became an internet vegan bekause meat eating is gluttonous, murderous and kkkapitalist-ous

[Dannyboy15]

What really pisses me off is when people become vegetarian out of fashion. Because their friends do it or a celeberity twat they admire does it. How ****ing stupid is that?

Punkers are natorious for this.

[Pint of stella]

Punkers are natorious for this.

Usually the Staright Edge tits do this. Usually because some wankers like propagandhi show them a video on an album. They then think "oh my god. All meat comes from factories and is created like this." Faggots.

[Ghostfire3]

Punkers are natorious for this.

You mean notorious?

And only some punks do that. The stupid ones who'll listen to anything a band they like tells them to do.

[Pint of stella]

Too bloody true.

[Mr. Ron]

then no one has any rights
We are animals, but a higher form of them.

[Iskandar]

We are animals, but a higher form of them.
I acknowledge that the natural order of the animal kingdom involves killing and eating each other, but I have to disagree.

Just because we're capable of reason, etc. doesn't mean other animals won't be some day.

[Ghostfire3]

I acknowledge that the natural order of the animal kingdom involves killing and eating each other, but I have to disagree.

Just because we're capable of reason, etc. doesn't mean other animals won't be some day.

Eh, I doubt they will ever be capable of reason.

[Iskandar]

Eh, I doubt they will ever be capable of reason.
Some already are; just not on the same level.

Chimpanzees make tools; cats can open cupboards; dolphins are smart.

At one point, humans were on the same level as these animals.

[Steerpike]

I honestly don't believe it's our ability to reason and create that gives us the right to eat flesh. It's the fact that we're physiologically designed to be able ot consume meat and reap nutrition from it. I don't need any bullshit excuse about being a higher being.

But I also don't like the idea of "bred to suffer, born to die." Just because you plan to eat the chicken doesn't mean you need to confine it in a cage for three or four years that only allows the head to move, lop off the beak, and shove a mush consisting of fat and wheat meal down its mutilated face every day for the rest of its miserable existence.

Just keep it in a chicken coup, feed it corn, and lop its head off when you feel like having a chicken dinner.

[Reaganista]

wheat is better than corn

[MAthiAS]

Eh, I doubt they will ever be capable of reason.
Why not? Its pretty shortsighted to say this, considering the time left this planet has to exist. In addition to Dropper's points, I see no reason why they wouldn't come to more elevated levels of reasoning. Whether its during human existence is another story...

[Atomic Rain]

wheat is better than corn

maybe feed it corn sometimes for a change

[PerpetualBurn]

Birthdays and the likes.

[Aklerc]

Ha what I find ironic (probably used in the wrong context but what the hell) is that my two friends (twins) are vegetarians. However they over feed their cats who are absolutely HUGE. I'm not talking overweight cats, they are quite literally killing them. So they care about these animals that they have absolutely no personal feelings towards but are in fact killing their beloved pets. Argh sometimes I just want to point stuff like this out to them but they just bring on the whole 'killing animals is wrong' thing sending me on the guilt trip. Gargh.

[Atomic Rain]

Birthdays and the likes.

Is it inappropriate for a chicken to have a treat at christmas?

I'm not sure if that qualifies as something jesus would do.

[Mona_Lisas_Dead]

Well i am personally a vegetarian. Have been since i was about 2 when i found out that meat was an animal. However, I dont force my beliefs down other throats. It's their decision what they do and do not eat, just as it is my decision. The only time i feel the need to pull out some long speel on animal cruelty etc is when a person is being rude and offensive towards me because I dont eat meat.

About the nutrients thing, my mum asked my doctor about wether i can get the full nutrients, and eh said yes, you can ccertainly get the full nutrients, but you need to eat the right food in order to.

Anyways, theres my two cents

[Amit]

vegetarians are so incredibly annoying

and i'm a devout hindu damn it

[Mr. Ron]

I acknowledge that the natural order of the animal kingdom involves killing and eating each other, but I have to disagree.

Just because we're capable of reason, etc. doesn't mean other animals won't be some day.
Yeah, in a few million years. Until then, we're the big dogs on the block.

[Dannyboy15]

vegetarians are so incredibly annoying

and i'm a devout hindu damn it

Vegans are worse.

[ratsinthecity403]

vegetarians are so incredibly annoying

and i'm a devout hindu damn it


anyone who's self righteous about their beliefs are incredibly annyoing, if that's what you mean

[Joel_DK_Clash]

There are annoying vegans, and there are vegans who are perfectly nice and rational about it. Same goes for vegetarians. Same goes for meat eaters. If you are morally opposed to eating meat and you talk to your friends and family about your beliefs, thats perfectly fine in my opinion. I hate it when people get mad because they hear a person who is veg saying something about animal rights in a down to earth, polite way. People can be douches, but you can't dismiss someone for believing in something.

[PerpetualBurn]

vegans who are perfectly nice and rational about it.

There's nothing rational about not eating honey.

[Chrysostom]

Vegitarianism ftw. Or at least it would be ftw if I didn't like meat. I'm in that uncomfortable position where I agree with vegetariansim from a moral standpoint but can't give up meat.

[Atomic Rain]

There's nothing rational about not eating honey.

And frankly, I want top know the human costs of all those bloody soya beans n shiz they eat.

"we don't want to harm bees but are quite comfrtable with african semi-slave labour" Etc.

[Joel_DK_Clash]

Vegitarianism ftw. Or at least it would be ftw if I didn't like meat. I'm in that uncomfortable position where I agree with vegetariansim from a moral standpoint but can't give up meat.

Im pretty much in the same boat as you, except i gave up meat, now im starting to try giving up eggs and dairy. Its hard...but im slowly phasing it out. I thought it would be impossible to give up meat, but now it doesent even appeal to me. Try giving it up for a few days at a time if you sincerly want to try it, and make sure you eat plenty of beans and tofu so you wont be hungey.

Honey, haha, thats nothing. There are vegans who won't eat mushrooms because their a fungus, not plants. I think those people are in it more for the health aspect though.

[MAthiAS]

Im pretty much in the same boat as you, except i gave up meat, now im starting to try giving up eggs and dairy. Its hard...but im slowly phasing it out. I thought it would be impossible to give up meat, but now it doesent even appeal to me. Try giving it up for a few days at a time if you sincerly want to try it, and make sure you eat plenty of beans and tofu so you wont be hungey.
Yeah man same, basically just try and cut down progressively. Apparently 'growing boys need their milk' though :(

Plus buy more organic foods and meats for the time being if you need.

[Mr. Ron]

There is a steakhouse near me that has a steak on the menu called the "de-vegitizer". The description basically says that it's so good that it will turn any vegitarian into a meat eater. I can attest, the steak is DELICIOUS.

[AA-12]

Haha, that's awesome. Steak is a good reason to not be vegetarian though.

/is drinking milk atm

[Chrysostom]

There is a steakhouse near me that has a steak on the menu called the "de-vegitizer". The description basically says that it's so good that it will turn any vegitarian into a meat eater. I can attest, the steak is DELICIOUS.

But that's ridiculous. No vegetarian would try it would they? So they're mever going to be "turned" by a steak they can't try.

[Mr. Ron]

But that's ridiculous. No vegetarian would try it would they? So they're mever going to be "turned" by a steak they can't try.
It's just a gimmick.

[Chrysostom]

It's just a gimmick.

I know, but they could have thought of a better one.

[Mr. Ron]

I know, but they could have thought of a better one.
True, I think it's kind of funny though.

[Chrysostom]

True, I think it's kind of funny though.

I guess so.

[ariathe13th]

arent most dykes vegetarians anyway?

[Joel_DK_Clash]

......no

[Aklerc]

Im pretty much in the same boat as you, except i gave up meat, now im starting to try giving up eggs and dairy. Its hard...but im slowly phasing it out. I thought it would be impossible to give up meat, but now it doesent even appeal to me. Try giving it up for a few days at a time if you sincerly want to try it, and make sure you eat plenty of beans and tofu so you wont be hungey.

Honey, haha, thats nothing. There are vegans who won't eat mushrooms because their a fungus, not plants. I think those people are in it more for the health aspect though.
Someone please educate me, what is the point of veganism?

[Steerpike]

Someone please educate me, what is the point of veganism?

I'm not sure. But the few vegans I've encountered seem to believe it puts them on a moral highground.

Whatever blows their skirt up though. Meanwhile, I've got sharp teeth and I'm gonna use 'em.

[AA-12]

I've never met a vegan or vegetarian that doesn't really annoy me in some way.

[Alpha Waves]

I've never met a vegan or vegetarian that doesn't really annoy me in some way.

same here.

the ones that annoy me are those who dont eat meat as its cruel to animals but eat fish

[Aklerc]

I'm not sure. But the few vegans I've encountered seem to believe it puts them on a moral highground.

Whatever blows their skirt up though. Meanwhile, I've got sharp teeth and I'm gonna use 'em.
I haven't met any vegans... I mean ok vegetarians, yeah animal cruelty whatever I can deal with that. I just don't understand how cutting out dairy products has absolutely ANY postives to it. Cutting out that much neccessary stuff in your diet is a stupid thing to do. 'ooh there are alternatives' ok, go for it, go completely out of your way, probably spending more cash than you would normally on a substitute for milk. What is the point? Grrr.
Also the veggie burgers and such like annoy me. If it's purely for the fact that you don't like meat, whatever. But if it's about morals, then why go out and buy a substitute for the exact thing that you're against? THAT is hypocrisy.

[Joel_DK_Clash]

I just feel bad for the chickens that are caged and forced to lay eggs for me, and the same goes for dairy. Thats why I would go vegan. I havnt gone vegan because im only 17 and dont want any hormone/protein/vitamine deficiencies before im done growing. So right now I just eat what I have to as far as eggs and dairy go. Eggs/Dairy arn't a huge thing for me, but i can totally understand why people would want to eliminate that from their lives.

And the veggie burgers thing? Thats ridiculous. It doesent matter if it tastes like meat, it isn't meat. Their a good source of nutrients and protein, and it allows me to BBQ in the summer.

[Chrysostom]

I just feel bad for the chickens that are caged and forced to lay eggs for me, and the same goes for dairy. Thats why I would go vegan. I havnt gone vegan because im only 17 and dont want any hormone/protein/vitamine deficiencies before im done growing. So right now I just eat what I have to as far as eggs and dairy go. Eggs/Dairy arn't a huge thing for me, but i can totally understand why people would want to eliminate that from their lives.

Kudos on the 'ghandi avatar. :thumb:

[Steerpike]

Also the veggie burgers and such like annoy me. If it's purely for the fact that you don't like meat, whatever. But if it's about morals, then why go out and buy a substitute for the exact thing that you're against? THAT is hypocrisy.

The one thing about that which doesn't make sense to me is naming it a burger. "Yes, I object to animal cruelty and went vegetarian to prevent it. But I'll go ahead and name a patty of plants after a meat product."

Yeah...

I just feel bad for the chickens that are caged and forced to lay eggs for me, and the same goes for dairy.

If you get your dairy and eggs from a farmer's market, most of those animals generally live better than some of the dogs in my neighborhood. It costs about the same, too. While on campus, I always got my eggs from the local farmer's market, and they were always bigger and cheaper than the ones at the supermarket.

And the veggie burgers thing? Thats ridiculous. It doesent matter if it tastes like meat, it isn't meat. Their a good source of nutrients and protein, and it allows me to BBQ in the summer.

Normally, I don't give a crap about that sort of thing, but something about the veggie burger creeps me out.

Of course, I'm the guy who wanted to open a zombie-themed restaurant, so I don't have much room to talk.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm not sure. But the few vegans I've encountered seem to believe it puts them on a moral highground.

Whatever blows their skirt up though. Meanwhile, I've got sharp teeth and I'm gonna use 'em.
:thumb:

[Iskandar]

Someone please educate me, what is the point of veganism?
To have consumption habits that are free of animal products, apparently.

[Atomic Rain]

arent most dykes vegetarians anyway?

A lot of young teenage girls are vegetarian becase they start to form strong opinions because it's suddenly allowed

A fair propertion of young teenage girls might be unsure of their sexuality because of hormones

[sr800bkBassist]

I agree with this. I really can't stand people who are vegetarians who look down on people who choose to eat meat. "omg you are eating meat?! I can't be seen with you, you are disgusting!"

I dont get it.
usually the people like that are the ones who have only been vegetarian for a few weeks/months. something i've noticed is that new vegetarians like to make EVERYONE know their beliefs, and it gets on my nerves. like in a class somebody says something about a burger, and some new vegetarian is like "EW! OMG BURGERS! GROSS MEAT IS GROSS!".

i've been a vegetarian for quite some time. most people i talk to didn't even find out i was vegetarian until i was offered a bite of something with meat in it and declined.


a lot of non-vegetarians/vegans complain about self-righteous veg's though. people who get in their case. i must say, even being from a very liberal southern CA (where we actually have more full-on hardcore vegans than vegetarians) i never see this (except with the amateur veggie case i just stated). most of the time it's the other way around. when people find out i'm a vegetarian, they usually use the tired old joke of "mmmmm burgers! i love eating cow!". so i let them know their joke is tired and that they lack any form of original humor. then suddenly i'm a "militant jerk". or this one girl said "do you get mad when people around you eat meat. i hate vegetarians like that." i said "i hate people who think because your diet changes, the way you act changes." she looked offended. or when some christian kid tries to tell you that animals are meant to be eaten, or that it's the only way to survive with a healthy diet to eat meat. so i prove all MY points to him, and suddenly i'm a militant preaching vegetarian.

[23-inch dude]

Yeah, plus I don't think it's all very natural.

[Iskandar]

Yeah, plus I don't think it's all very natural.
Wait, what's not natural?

[sr800bkBassist]

Also the veggie burgers and such like annoy me. If it's purely for the fact that you don't like meat, whatever. But if it's about morals, then why go out and buy a substitute for the exact thing that you're against? THAT is hypocrisy.
no.
-you're eating something that tastes good
-you're eating something much healthier than the real thing (same protein, less fat/cholesterol)
-you're not eating meat.

where's the hypocracy?

[Iskandar]

I don't see any hypocrisy either. You want the taste and nutrients of meat, but don't want to eat it. Solution: synthetic meat.

[sr800bkBassist]

Someone please educate me, what is the point of veganism?
to abstain from supporting the dairy industry. i'm not vegan, but i know where they stand.

when it comes to animal liberation, the only way to achieve that is to destroy our dependancy on them. so if there was no use for dairy animals, they can go back to the wild, where they naturally came from (animals have existed for plenty of years without the aid of humans. the main reasons most animals are dependant now are because of human intrusion in the environment which includes logging, polution, etc, and selective breeding, which makes all sorts of once-wild species into a weaker form that is more easily controlled by us).

keep in mind, i'm not vegan, just vegetarian. but nobody seems to be making these points so i figured i would. i hope this doesn't make me "preachy".

[Aklerc]

no.
-you're eating something that tastes good
-you're eating something much healthier than the real thing (same protein, less fat/cholesterol)
-you're not eating meat.

where's the hypocracy?
The hypocrisy is in the fact that their morals say they don't eat meat (in this example, burgers) because it is mean to animals. So why do they need to imitate it?

to abstain from supporting the dairy industry. i'm not vegan, but i know where they stand.

when it comes to animal liberation, the only way to achieve that is to destroy our dependancy on them. so if there was no use for dairy animals, they can go back to the wild, where they naturally came from (animals have existed for plenty of years without the aid of humans. the main reasons most animals are dependant now are because of human intrusion in the environment which includes logging, polution, etc, and selective breeding, which makes all sorts of once-wild species into a weaker form that is more easily controlled by us).

keep in mind, i'm not vegan, just vegetarian. but nobody seems to be making these points so i figured i would. i hope this doesn't make me "preachy".
Hello... organic farms. They can live their happy little lives and give us produce as well.

[Mr. Ron]

Do vegetarians know that plants are alive as well?


Do they refuse to mow their lawns as well?

[Iskandar]

Do vegetarians know that plants are alive as well?


Do they refuse to mow their lawns as well?
Flora aren't sentient.

[The_Passenger]

The hypocrisy is in the fact that their morals say they don't eat meat (in this example, burgers) because it is mean to animals. So why do they need to imitate it?


I'm not a vegetarian and can't really see the point in it, but I don't get how this is hypocritical. They probably want to imitate it because some veggies like the taste of meat.

[Aklerc]

I'm not a vegetarian and can't really see the point in it, but I don't get how this is hypocritical. They probably want to imitate it because some veggies like the taste of meat.
Yeah but by being vegetarian you're basically sending out the message 'I can live and eat without the use of animals' so why the need for veggie sausages/veggie burgers etc

[The_Passenger]

Yeah but by being vegetarian you're basically sending out the message 'I can live and eat without the use of animals' so why the need for veggie sausages/veggie burgers etc

Ah, I see your point now. However, I don't know any vegetarians who say they don't eat meat because they can live without it (even though they obviously can), they don't eat meat because they think that eating animals is wrong.