Vegetarianism

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

And judging from this post, I'm guessing that stupidity is also a trend.

No, I've neen stupid my whole life:(

[Mr. Ron]

If we look into Genesis, it would seem to imply God is vegan. The fruit, the Garden, the bountiful life, and undergrowth. It's really beautiful. The way the plants bring us our natural vitamins, extend our lives, in Jared's case to 962 years, it is what He intended. In old Mosaic law, most fowl was forbidden. Now it is customary to have a slice of turkey with every meal. We no longer live under the old law, and I've decided to make meat a substantial part of my diet. Although I will probably die young of clogged arteries and heart failure, I'm sure it's what He wanted in His most gracious wisdom.

If you decide to go vegan and are an atheist, you are unwittingly doing God's will.

Except god likes the stench of burning flesh in his nostrils and he favored Abel's blood sacrifice over Cain's plant sacrifice...

[Jharaski]

Except god likes the stench of burning flesh in his nostrils and he favored Abel's blood sacrifice over Cain's plant sacrifice...

So he put animals here for us to maim, not eat. :p

[White Riot!]

lol just do whatever the **** you like!

no god nonsense

[The Digital Pimp]

What I like to do, every time someone tells me they're veggie/vegan, I like to say "Oh man, how long have you had that?" or "Oh, I'm so sorry."

[spitfirejunky]

^ Same.

I argued this to the death like 20 pages back. For whatever reason you become vegetarian/vegan, don't do it because you think it's healthy. It's not.

[badtaste]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrbZlqvtgIc

I still insist that meat tastes good.

[samariah]

saying that a vegeterian diet can't be healthy is not correct. i've been a vegan for several years and i feel great healthwise. when i go to the doctors, everything always turns out good. i have low cholesterol, ideal blood pressure, all that good stuff. my hair and skin are very strong and healthy (both barometers of interior health). i have lots of energy. im rarely ever sick.

[samariah]

i used to think meat tasted good when i was a kid and ate it. its because thats what i was used to, i had a palate that liked meat. now even when i smell it i get a little nauseous and it totally turns me off. people ask me if i crave a hamburger or something. definitely not. i love fresh fruit, chocolate, whole grains, tomatos, almond butter, avocado, bean burritos. believe it or not, i love the way those things taste and if im cravng something yummy i reach for those. my palate has changed.

[samariah]

i wanted to bring up another issue to discuss. in my one class the other day we were discussing when girls reach the age when they first menstruate. my prof said that back in the 1830's the average age was around 17.5. now she said that the average age is around 12.5 or 13 with it having steadily decreased over the past century and a half. what do you think this is from. although i have not researched this i thought that possibly it has something to do with the hormones in animal products, specifically meat. compared to back then, almost all animal prodcuts eaten today are pumped up with antibiotics. i also noticed that i personally did not experience menstruation until i was around 16 (as a vegetarian) while my 2 sisters who eat an average to high amount of meat experienced it around age 12 and 13.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

saying that a vegeterian diet can't be healthy is not correct. i've been a vegan for several years and i feel great healthwise. when i go to the doctors, everything always turns out good. i have low cholesterol, ideal blood pressure, all that good stuff. my hair and skin are very strong and healthy (both barometers of interior health). i have lots of energy. im rarely ever sick.

It's not that vegitarians can't be healthy; it's that a vegitarian diet is not automatically more healthy than a normal one.

Vegans have to watch what they eat carefully to get a balanced diet.

[spitfirejunky]

saying that a vegeterian diet can't be healthy is not correct. i've been a vegan for several years and i feel great healthwise. when i go to the doctors, everything always turns out good. i have low cholesterol, ideal blood pressure, all that good stuff. my hair and skin are very strong and healthy (both barometers of interior health). i have lots of energy. im rarely ever sick.

Now imagine you had a balanced diet.

[spitfirejunky]

i wanted to bring up another issue to discuss. in my one class the other day we were discussing when girls reach the age when they first menstruate. my prof said that back in the 1830's the average age was around 17.5. now she said that the average age is around 12.5 or 13 with it having steadily decreased over the past century and a half. what do you think this is from. although i have not researched this i thought that possibly it has something to do with the hormones in animal products, specifically meat. compared to back then, almost all animal prodcuts eaten today are pumped up with antibiotics. i also noticed that i personally did not experience menstruation until i was around 16 (as a vegetarian) while my 2 sisters who eat an average to high amount of meat experienced it around age 12 and 13.

The scope of the survey that dished out the age 17.5 is extremely important. For centuries, women in Native America and other locations gave birth regularly at the age of 12-13.

[samariah]

i'll have to check into that.

i have heard of other vegetarians experiencing menarche later than "normal" so im just wondering whether meat is connected.

[Der Übermensch]

That study I believe is dead wrong... Considering that the age of legal adult hood has been INCREASING, take into account the fact that girls married earlier then then they do now. Being married by 16... 17... was the norm 200 years ago. They would already be having kids by the time your study says they should first start menstruation.

[samariah]

and yea, a vegeterian diet can be just as unhealthy as anything else if the person doesn't eat healthful foods and doesnt have a broad spectrum of things incorporated. i was just getting at the idea that being vegeterian doesnt automatically mean unhealthy.

[samariah]

i dont know the specifics of the study but i dont think it necessarily has to be dead wrong. the average age was 17.5. that means there were girls younger and older. plus i believe this study was done in america on caucasians. so that could affect the results. girls could have begun to menstruate right before marriage. for instance, start menstruation at 16 or 17 or 18 and likely be married a few months later. its not nonsensical.

[italic zero]

if it were true it would have more to do with BGH in milk than meat

on the other hand, there is evidence that it makes for bigger boobs

[samariah]

...

[PerpetualBurn]

i also noticed that i personally did not experience menstruation until i was around 16 (as a vegetarian) while my 2 sisters who eat an average to high amount of meat experienced it around age 12 and 13.

Well it's good that you did a varied sample survey of three people...

And you know who else doesn't menstruate? The anorexics and bulimics. They must also be very healthy.

[samariah]

well i hope your not assuming that im anorexic or bulimic because thats stupid.

and i wasn't making definite conclusions, i was just making an observation and am wondering if anyone else has information on it.

[PerpetualBurn]

I'm not implying that.

I'm implying that your comments on your menstrual development are at best distasteful, most likely retarded.

[Petros]

I am predicting you do not have much success with the womenfolk.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I am predicting you do not have much success with the womenfolk.

News for petros:

Women rarely go for the nice guys; they keep those as friends....

[Petros]

I guess so. But calling girls retards has not been an effective pick up line in my reckoning, maybe I should give it a try?

[samariah]

way to generalize...

and pb i think your need to call things "retarded" is pretty distasteful

[PerpetualBurn]

I am predicting you do not have much success with the womenfolk.

I'm guessing anyone who thinks the anonymity of an internet forum is the place to chat up women is a virgin.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

way to generalize...

Don't worry, I'm just very bitter.

[samariah]

:rolleyes:

[Petros]

And I am stupid. So I will retreat from this thread before I make a complete idiot out of myself...

[samariah]

your not stupid

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Come, my friends, and watch this relationship blossom before our very eyes

[peeted]

i dont know weather to laugh or cry.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Laugh my friend

laugh because we live in a country where it's illegal for catholics to reject potential adoptive parent couples just because they're gay

[Petros]

i dont know weather to laugh or cry.

I am laughing and think it is funny.

edit: and now back to vegetarianism...

[samariah]

ok...

[Volumnius Flush]

Also: what the hell kind of place do you live where it's custom to eat a slice of turkey with every meal?

I live in Tyler, Texas. Greenberg's Turkey is one of the most well respected turkey chains in the country. Oprah said so.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I live in Tyler, Texas. Greenberg's Turkey is one of the most well respected turkey chains in the country. Oprah said so.

ok well aren't you so totally sick of turkey?

[The Digital Pimp]

way to generalize...

and pb i think your need to call things "retarded" is pretty distasteful

Yeah well, a spade's a spade.

[PerpetualBurn]

Too ****ing right.

In Yorkshire we do called a spade a spade.

And I'm not beating around any bush.

[beso negro]

i am almost a vegetarian. I don't partake in dairy products and I only eat meat sparingly, becuase I don't want to lose my hair.

Though I eat fish everyday. America eats too much meat.

[samariah]

u got that right

[PerpetualBurn]

There's nothing to be gained from vegetarianism.

[samariah]

why do you say that?

[WhoDidTheElf]

I think the better thing to do would be to list all the gains of being a vegetarian.

[spitfirejunky]

Pescatarianism and flexitarianism are fine. I used to consider them both a form of vegetarianism but apparently they're not.

[-1up!-]

America eats too much meat.

And what objective criteria are you using to define "too much meat"?

[beso negro]

as in there is a reason why 50% of men in America suffer from male pattern baldness by the time they are 50, while men in japan rarely do.

[Petros]

going bald

therefore

too much meat

[spitfirejunky]

Worst. Correlation. Ever.

[Zesty Mordant]

as in there is a reason why 50% of men in America suffer from male pattern baldness by the time they are 50, while men in japan rarely do.

wait what?

makes absolutely no sense. by your logic we can also say that black people don't lose their hair as much as whitey (because they tend to by the miracle of genes and not diet). however, they eat just as much meat.

[beso negro]

Too much meat that is high in fat will make men with the MPB gene lose hair.

just trust me on this one. i have MPB.

[Petros]

Too much meat that is high in fat will make men with the MPB gene lose hair.

just trust me on this one. i have MPB.

Well, you have shown that people who have this MPB gene may lose hair by eating too much fatty meat. It doesn't prove Americans are eating too much meat.

[beso negro]

Well, you have shown that people who have this MPB gene may lose hair by eating too much fatty meat. It doesn't prove Americans are eating too much meat.

hair is a reflection of your health. most of the meat people eat in America is filled with saturated fat, which clogs arteries and is high in cholesterol.

[spitfirejunky]

hair is a reflection of your health.

Biggest biological fallacy ever.

[Petros]

most of the meat people eat in America is filled with saturated fat, which clogs arteries and is high in cholesterol.

That might be true, but it doesn't prove Americans are eating too much meat. :wave:

[beso negro]

That might be true, but it doesn't prove Americans are eating too much meat. :wave:

true, they should be eating better meat. like deer, squirrel, and rabbit.

Biggest biological fallacy ever.

the last place essential vitamins and minerals go is your hair. so if you aren't getting enough, your hair suffers. Why do you think everyone's hair thins a bit as they get older?

[spitfirejunky]

Getting essential vitamins and minerals doesn't necessitate good health.

[beso negro]

Vitamins help the body turn food into energy and tissues, and minerals are needed for growth and maintenance of body structures. Some vitamins are antioxidants—chemicals that prevent damaging changes in cells and may help protect against cancer, heart disease, and aging.

if you aren't getting enough(or too much) of vitamin A, B Complex, C, D, E and minerals like Calcium, Copper, Iron etc. you will have health problems. (acne, hair loss, heart, etc.)

and if you eat anything, you are getting these. check the labels.

[Zesty Mordant]

hair is a reflection of your health.

untrue. the amount of body-builders, professional athletes, people in good shape have mpb, is the same for the rest of society.

[beso negro]

you don't know what they eat. just becuase someone has muscles doesn't mean they are 100% healthy. They might have a deficiency in zinc. Zinc exits the body in a number of ways, including through sweat. On an exercise day, an athlete will lose 50% more zinc through sweat than on a non-exercise day.

also, must i mention steroids?

[samariah]

i dont have the exact studies on hand but i remember reading that when hawaians ate a traditional diet that was higher in fish, fruits, veggies, etc and low in meat and other animal products they were in general good health. when americans or whoever it was, europeans, brought the traditional higher meat and animal product less fresh stuff diet there disease rate for heart disease and other illnesses rose.

[italic zero]

if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian

[samariah]

although maybe hair or whatever isnt the ultimate barometer of health, i personally notice that when i transitioned to a complete vegan diet with lots of fresh fruit, veggies, nuts, seeds, good fats, etc my hair looks much healthier and my skin is in much better shape. and whenever i start eating more animal products i feel worse physically. maybe its just me.

[Gummo]

although maybe hair or whatever isnt the ultimate barometer of health, i personally notice that when i transitioned to a complete vegan diet with lots of fresh fruit, veggies, nuts, seeds, good fats, etc my hair looks much healthier and my skin is in much better shape. and whenever i start eating more animal products i feel worse physically. maybe its just me.


my sister is the same way.

[CarnageFairy]

I don't care if you don't want to eat meat.

But if you try to make me not eat meat, I will kill you with the club I use on the baby seals.

[samariah]

woah there

im not trying to do anything :)

somebody sure likes meat

[lightningmetal666]

Not to be a spatula or anything, but if everybody switched to grains or veggies, etc... would we not essentially be starving the animals that you're trying to save?

It's not my place to tell anyone what they should eat, but I have been on a farm where we butcher our own meat. I can assure you that we make it as quick and painless as possible. We did not electrocute the cows, pigs or chickens, or do anything that would result in torture.

Having raised these animals personally, I have given them love, care, and even made a personal rule that they eat dinner before I do.

However, I love meat, and at times I am a bit of a carnivore. I don't think it makes me a bad person, though I have been put down about it more than once. Another point I have. What about over-population? Scientists have concluded that if it were not for creatures like bats or spiders, the bug population would be too much. Obviously nature has it's own system of checks and balances. Somehow man made it to the top and I'm not really sure why. To be honest, I hear about shark attacks and other animals eating man and i don't think they were too very concerned about what right they had to eat us. It was all based on instinct and the need for food.

[lunchforthesky]

I agree it is natural for some species to consume meat but the manner in which a modern society achieves this is somewhat unsavoury.

[PerpetualBurn]

as in there is a reason why 50% of men in America suffer from male pattern baldness by the time they are 50, while men in japan rarely do.

I've also noticed that black people rarely get blue eyes - is this caused by too much fried chicken or do you think that maybe different races can exhibit different genetic traits?

[peeted]

why is it so unsavoury?

[Mr. Ron]

I love meat but all the chemicals they pump into it is a bit gross to think about.

[PerpetualBurn]

No more than pesticides.

[Mr. Ron]

Well, all the antibiotics, steroids and the like kind of bother me.

[spitfirejunky]

Vitamins help the body turn food into energy and tissues, and minerals are needed for growth and maintenance of body structures. Some vitamins are antioxidants—chemicals that prevent damaging changes in cells and may help protect against cancer, heart disease, and aging.

if you aren't getting enough(or too much) of vitamin A, B Complex, C, D, E and minerals like Calcium, Copper, Iron etc. you will have health problems. (acne, hair loss, heart, etc.)

and if you eat anything, you are getting these. check the labels.

Thank you for that hilariously obvious input.

Does good nutrition cure cancer? No.
Does good nutrition build physical fitness? No.

Having your daily supply of vitamins is only one of many things you're supposed to do to maintain your health. And even then, many other factors don't allow you to experience the peak of your health.

Vitamins alone don't do ****.

[lunchforthesky]

why is it so unsavoury?

Thousands upon thousands of factories with the sole intention of killing animals. I know its a necessary evil but its certianly not someone i enjoy partaking in.

[MAthiAS]

Why is it a necessary evil?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

neccessary for us to eat meats

[peeted]

i don't think its evil, i think its appetising.

[samariah]

not necessarily necessary

im still living

[PerpetualBurn]

Vitamin B12 anyone?

[spitfirejunky]

Twelve essential amino acids anyone?

[lunchforthesky]

Why is it a necessary evil?

The west isn't going to give up meat anytime soon.

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

Why is it a necessary evil?

[lunchforthesky]

Because myself and millions of others enjoy the tatse of meet and aren't prepared to give it up.

[RockAndRoll]

I think you missed the italics.

[PerpetualBurn]

Lots of people liking something doesn't make it necessary.

[peeted]

its evil the way that some companies farm and reer their animals, and the way they chop down forests and jungles etc for grazing land but eating meat itself isnt evil.

[palepalepeach]

I've been a vegetarian for two years, and I don't know if I want to do it anymore. It hasn't been hard, but I'm not sure what the point is anymore.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I've been a vegetarian for two years, and I don't know if I want to do it anymore. It hasn't been hard, but I'm not sure what the point is anymore.

dude meat tastes SO GOOD

[Grohlthegreat]

I've been a vegetarian for two years, and I don't know if I want to do it anymore. It hasn't been hard, but I'm not sure what the point is anymore.


Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9As0YR0LNw

[Mr. Ron]

dude meat tastes SO GOOD

^^^

[PerpetualBurn]

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9As0YR0LNw

I just watched that video. And for tea I'm having sausage, bacon, and egg butties. Take THAT Peta.

It was a shoddily produced, overwhelmingly cheesy approach to propaganda. It sickens me the level they'll stoop to when it comes to misrepresentation and at times outright lying.

[Grohlthegreat]

In which parts have they lied ?

[PerpetualBurn]

Meat and dairy makes you fat?

Well that's a tremendous piece of misinformation if ever I saw it.

Eat too many salted peanuts and see how your vegetarian diet goes.

[Grohlthegreat]

Yeah i'll probably agree with that. If you eat too much of any type of nutrient its bad for you.

[beso negro]

Thank you for that hilariously obvious input.

Does good nutrition cure cancer? No.
Does good nutrition build physical fitness? No.

Having your daily supply of vitamins is only one of many things you're supposed to do to maintain your health. And even then, many other factors don't allow you to experience the peak of your health.

Vitamins alone don't do ****.

I never said eating right alone will give you better health than someone who doesn't. Genes play an important role. But it's possible to interfere with heredity by eating better.

I've also noticed that black people rarely get blue eyes - is this caused by too much fried chicken or do you think that maybe different races can exhibit different genetic traits?

eye color has nothing to do with health.

[ihatemybass]

2 more friends o mine have converted to vegetarianism because of animal rights. Ill give em 3 weeks at most.

[PerpetualBurn]

eye color has nothing to do with health.

But male pattern baldness has to do with genetics...

[beso negro]

But male pattern baldness has to do with genetics...

but can be prevented or at least slowed by eating better and washing your hair more.

[PerpetualBurn]

Yeah i'll probably agree with that. If you eat too much of any type of nutrient its bad for you.

And what about "Because *this* is wrong" part being shown as if their animal cruelty videos demonstrate the norm?

[Sroji]

:lol: animal rights :lol:

[Mr. Ron]

Animals have protections. I think everyone can agree that animals should have a certain degree of respect from us.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Animals have protections. I think everyone can agree that animals should have a certain degree of respect from us.

yeah; there's no reason to make animals uncomfortable if nobody benefits in a practical way.

If someone does benefit we have to weigh up both sides.

[lunchforthesky]

:lol: animal rights :lol:

:lol: Human Rights :lol:

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

:lol: Human Rights :lol:

:lol: morelike human wrongs amirite :lol:

[lunchforthesky]

Correct :lol:

[Sroji]

Animals deserve the respect of a fair fight. When our ancestors hunted animals with their spears, that was fair. When we harvest them for slaughter, that's not fair. With power comes responsibility and humans have the power.

[PerpetualBurn]

Wait...so we should chase them round fields all day instead of looking after them and then killing them humanely?

Yeah, that sounds much better.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Don't pretend you wouldn't be in favour of foxhunting if it was just man on dog, wits against teeth.

[Mr. Ron]

Animals deserve the respect of a fair fight. When our ancestors hunted animals with their spears, that was fair. When we harvest them for slaughter, that's not fair. With power comes responsibility and humans have the power.

Sorry, but if I'm hunting bear I'm not going to jump it with a kitchen knife.

[coe]

Why would you need to hunt for bears?

[lunchforthesky]

Hunting sucks period.

[Mr. Ron]

Why would you need to hunt for bears?

There is an overpopulation of bears right now.

[Mr. Ron]

Hunting sucks period.

Not really. It's needed.

[coe]

So you're going to kill a bear just to kill a bear?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

So you're going to kill a bear just to kill a bear?

and nuke a gay whale for jesus

[Mr. Ron]

So you're going to kill a bear just to kill a bear?

How do you propose stopping their overpopulation?

[coe]

Domesticate them.

[Mr. Ron]

All of them?

[coe]

If you think you can handle it.

[Mr. Ron]

lol.


Ok, lets say we domesticate all bears. What are they good for? What one of our needs do they fulfill?

[coe]

They will replace automobiles.

[Mr. Ron]

So much for serious discussion.

[pedro durruti]

One day, bears and humans will coexist in peace.

[lunchforthesky]

Not really. It's needed.

I dont like people enjoying it and most hunting is done for sport not for population control.

[Mr. Ron]

I dont like people enjoying it and most hunting is done for sport not for population control.

So what if people enjoy it? It means that the job will get done faster.

The sport is population control.

[coe]

Bears lower the population of other animals.

[lunchforthesky]

So what if people enjoy it? It means that the job will get done faster.

The sport is population control.

What if the job doesn't always need doing?

and it's not primarily done for population control its done for personel enjoyment, that is the reason, population control is just a (not so valid) excuse.

[Mr. Ron]

What if the job doesn't always need doing?

and it's not primarily done for population control its done for personel enjoyment, that is the reason, population control is just a (not so valid) excuse.

Who cares what the primary drive is? The job is getting done.

[Mr. Ron]

Bears lower the population of other animals.

Too much of that is very bad for the ecosystem.

[lunchforthesky]

Who cares what the primary drive is? The job is getting done.

I care and as I said before there isn't any population control necessary in a lot of cases.

[sweboy]

Too much of that is very bad for the ecosystem.

No, bears are a natural part of the ecosystem. What's potentially bad for the ecosystem is messing with it from the outside - i.e shooting off a specific type of animal in it.

[The Digital Pimp]

Remember kids: If you enjoy the burger, the cow didn't die in vain!

[PerpetualBurn]

Too much of that is very bad for the ecosystem.

Hunting is almost universally bad for the ecosystem.

And most cases of hunting to combat alleged overpopulation fail.

And if ever you look at ecology, you realise that the population is limited by the population of the prey, not the predator.

[peeted]

It always struck me as stupid trying to apply morals to things which have no moral capacity whatsoever. eg animals or fetuses.

[Mr. Ron]

No, bears are a natural part of the ecosystem. What's potentially bad for the ecosystem is messing with it from the outside - i.e shooting off a specific type of animal in it.

We are too.


Its pretty much proven that too much of one animal WILL offset the balance of the ecosystem.

[coe]

There are too many humans.

[Mr. Ron]

There actually is not.

[sweboy]

We are too.


Its pretty much proven that too much of one animal WILL offset the balance of the ecosystem.

When discussing ecology it makes no sense to say that industrialized human societies are natural parts of ecosystems.

By definition, leaving a stabilized ecosystem be can not offset it's balance. If you abstain from shooting bears, they're not going to overpopulate and destroy the ecosystem, that's not how it works. They are part of the balance. It is by shooting off bears that you risk to offset the balance.

[Mr. Ron]

When discussing ecology it makes no sense to say that industrialized human societies are natural parts of ecosystems.

By definition, leaving a stabilized ecosystem be can not offset it's balance. If you abstain from shooting bears, they're not going to overpopulate and destroy the ecosystem, that's not how it works. They are part of the balance. It is by shooting off bears that you risk to offset the balance.

Whatever humans do is natural. When we build a skyscraper, its no different than ants building a colony. Now, do have a good impact on the environment? No. Still, I don't see how anything we do is "unnatural".

[Chrizzle fo' Shizzle]

What about when the Native Americans hunted animals? Were they not part of the ecosystem?

[sweboy]

Whatever humans do is natural. When we build a skyscraper, its no different than ants building a colony. Now, do have a good impact on the environment? No. Still, I don't see how anything we do is "unnatural".

That definition becomes stupid and renders the word meaningless when actually discussing ecology and such. Thus:

Nature, in the broadest sense, is equivalent to the natural world, physical universe, material world or material universe. "Nature" refers to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The term generally does not include manufactured objects and human interaction unless qualified in ways such as, e.g., "human nature" or "the whole of nature".
The natural environment comprises all living and non-living things that occur naturally on Earth. In its purest sense, it is thus an environment that is not the result of human activity or intervention.

It makes no sense to call New York City a natural environment or particle accelerators a natural phenomena.

What about when the Native Americans hunted animals? Were they not part of the ecosystem?
They were, but they were not industrialized and the population was very small so their impact on the ecosystem was not very big. There's nothing that says that humans can't be part of ecosystems.

[Mr. Ron]

That definition becomes stupid and renders the word meaningless when actually discussing ecology and such. Thus:




It makes no sense to call New York City a natural environment or particle accelerators a natural phenomena.


They were, but they were not industrialized and the population was very small so their impact on the ecosystem was not very big.

Except that there really isnt anything unnatural. Ever. Nor artificial. Everything is made form things the earth gives us, and what we create is simply an extension of our nature as human beings.

[PerpetualBurn]

We are too.


Its pretty much proven that too much of one animal WILL offset the balance of the ecosystem.

Predator-prey relationships pretty much always work that it is the prey that controls the population.

[MattyBlade]

While we're on the topic of animal rights, (I know this is why you don't eat them) we need to change it so that animals can vote! I mean, if we can't eat them they must be an important part of society. So, I say, if animals don't want to be eaten, then they must want to be able to vote as well. We should hold a refferendum in which it will be determined if animals should have the right to vote! I mean, they're obviously members of society like you and I so they shouldn't be held back when it comes to voting. I mean, if women can vote, why can't animals.

[lunchforthesky]

Quit being an idiot, they have dont have the mental capacity to vote.

Unless you were kidding, its hard to tell over the internet.

[peeted]

i didnt know if it was a joke untill the end were he said " I mean, if women can vote, why can't animals" and i lold

[pitchfork]

Animal rights, dude, these animals are destined for the slaughter but if the farmer can't sell enough meat then he goes under.
Free range organic animals are for the most part quite happy, I don't want them to die for nothing.

I won't eat factory farmed meats because that is cruel and I don't like working for a company who sells it but we all gotta take some **** to get the pot of gold.

Yeah some stuff is cruel but what can we do except not support it, we have no voice.

[spitfirejunky]

They were, but they were not industrialized and the population was very small so their impact on the ecosystem was not very big. There's nothing that says that humans can't be part of ecosystems.

You're not making any sense. Whatever balance you're referring to is a balance created by offsets. What happens when humans hunt animals in the wild? The same that happens when any two other predators compete for prey. When an underpopulation occurs, what happens to the predators? Then what happens to the prey? Populations oscillate.

And you're saying human constructs are not natural? Then neither is anything else, 'cause nothing is introduced into nature without a natural precursor.

[spitfirejunky]

I never said eating right alone will give you better health than someone who doesn't. Genes play an important role. But it's possible to interfere with heredity by eating better.

Oh yeah?

hair is a reflection of your health.

So yeah, so far you've not only failed to show why guys who are balding should forfeit a balanced diet, but you've failed to prove that balding is a sign of poor health.

[sweboy]

You're not making any sense. Whatever balance you're referring to is a balance created by offsets. What happens when humans hunt animals in the wild? The same that happens when any two other predators compete for prey. When an underpopulation occurs, what happens to the predators? Then what happens to the prey? Populations oscillate.

I don't really get what you're saying, but in industrialized human societies, the human population is not dependant on other species and is not effected much by oscillations in the ecosystem. Bear hunting for example does not affect the human population, like it would if humans would have been a natural part of the ecosystem. Humans can't be viewed like other species from an ecological viewpoint.

And you're saying human constructs are not natural? Then neither is anything else, 'cause nothing is introduced into nature without a natural precursor.
Except that there really isnt anything unnatural. Ever. Nor artificial. Everything is made form things the earth gives us, and what we create is simply an extension of our nature as human beings.

Simply put, "natural" refers to non man-made things and "artificial" refers to man-made things. Hit the dictionary.

[i don't know lol]

I tried it for six months with some sort of quasi eastern philosophy attached. I just wanted pepperoni on my pizza, bottom line. And I got tired of fake meat. So now its cheeseburgers and fried chicken once again.

[Mr. Ron]

I don't really get what you're saying, but in industrialized human societies, the human population is not dependant on other species and is not effected much by oscillations in the ecosystem. Bear hunting for example does not affect the human population, like it would if humans would have been a natural part of the ecosystem. Humans can't be viewed like other species from an ecological viewpoint.




Simply put, "natural" refers to non man-made things and "artificial" refers to man-made things. Hit the dictionary.

We make differences in the meanings of words so that there is little confusion, but when you really think about it, the word "artificial" is simply just that, a word. There is no such thing as something that is made outside of any sort of nature. Whether it be nature itself or human nature. So nothing can ever be truly artificial.

[spitfirejunky]

I don't really get what you're saying, but in industrialized human societies, the human population is not dependant on other species and is not effected much by oscillations in the ecosystem. Bear hunting for example does not affect the human population, like it would if humans would have been a natural part of the ecosystem. Humans can't be viewed like other species from an ecological viewpoint.

That's because humans are omnivores. Omnivores tend to have secure populations because they don't have to compete for food. And these industries you refer to are just as much a reflection of the will to survive as that of any other species. There are a ton of other animals that directly influence their surroundings to improve their chances of survival.

And don't bring up this question of magnitude. Having more an influence on the environment does not exempt you from natural tendencies, nor does having a stable and flourishing population.

Simply put, "natural" refers to non man-made things and "artificial" refers to man-made things. Hit the dictionary.

You initially used that argument to suggest that humans are outside of nature and the ecosystem, which they aren't.

[beso negro]

So yeah, so far you've not only failed to show why guys who are balding should forfeit a balanced diet, but you've failed to prove that balding is a sign of poor health.

forfeit a balanced diet? I am all for a balanced diet. Began a vegan is unhealthy unless you do it right. Meat is good, Americans just eat too much **** meat.

Oh and why balding is unhealthy:

http://www2.jsonline.com/alive/well/jan00/bald24012300.asp

just one example

[spitfirejunky]

forfeit a balanced diet? I am all for a balanced diet. Began a vegan is unhealthy unless you do it right. Meat is good, Americans just eat too much **** meat.

OK. I'm glad that's straightened out. But we're still left with the vaguery of "**** meat."

Oh and why balding is unhealthy:

http://www2.jsonline.com/alive/well/jan00/bald24012300.asp

just one example

Did you even read the link you posted?

Susceptibility to heart attacks through balding has nothing to do with being unhealthy. You can be extremely susceptible to heart attacks and still maintain good health.

You can correlate balding and heart attack susceptibility, balding and meat-eating, but you simply can't correlate balding and good health. Bald people can be healthy and unhealthy based on any number of habits.

[Pirate Satellite]

I am not too militant about it with others, but I am a long-time vegan. My health was pretty shakey for a while, but now I've learned how to better pursue the diet. The bottom line is, even if it might make me a little too thin or whatever, I do things that are harmful all of the time. I would never dream of doing something harmful to someone else, so I choose to live cruelty-free.

Meat consumption, to me, is inexorably linked to the hedonism of Ugly America-- obesity, avarice, indifference to violence, pollution-- and I would never willingly be a part of that. It's something I absolutely believe in with a fervor. I don't mind if anyone else eats meat or dairy, but I'd frankly sooner starve.

[samariah]

i dont know if i would sooner starve but im not militant either. i dont really care too much if others choose to eat meat. i just personally feel better healthwise when i dont. its a personal thing.

[PsychoTronn]

madeyadams be carefull because u need meat to keep u strong u know its like the animals are dieing anyway one person isnt going to make a difference but its your choice but u seem cool so eat some meat

[samariah]

and i guess my body is so used to eat if i eat some cheese or somethin i feel like crap but if i eat vegan for a while i have more energy and stuff

[Mr. Ron]

I am not too militant about it with others, but I am a long-time vegan. My health was pretty shakey for a while, but now I've learned how to better pursue the diet. The bottom line is, even if it might make me a little too thin or whatever, I do things that are harmful all of the time. I would never dream of doing something harmful to someone else, so I choose to live cruelty-free.

Meat consumption, to me, is inexorably linked to the hedonism of Ugly America-- obesity, avarice, indifference to violence, pollution-- and I would never willingly be a part of that. It's something I absolutely believe in with a fervor. I don't mind if anyone else eats meat or dairy, but I'd frankly sooner starve.

Nah. Thats called "human nature".

[pedro durruti]

We have a way of manipulating human nature to fit our morality with new technology and ideas.

[Aaron]

There are adverts going around in Australia at the moment that highlight that without eating red-meats, our homo-sapien forefathers would not've developed into homo-sapien-sapiens. Any geeks want to argue this?

Personally, I have a bit of a problem with vegetarian in that, in most cases, people are not eating correctly. Sure you CAN get all the proteins and oils you need from alternate food sources, but realistically madey, are you everyday? I feel the application of vegetarianism is too hard for me; why I went back to eating meat. I'd bet my last $1.00 that 9 vegetarians out of 10 is not eating healthily everyday.

[I Am He]

Meat consumption, to me, is inexorably linked to the hedonism of Ugly America-- obesity, avarice, indifference to violence, pollution-- and I would never willingly be a part of that. It's something I absolutely believe in with a fervor. I don't mind if anyone else eats meat or dairy, but I'd frankly sooner starve.

How is the consumption of meat linked to those things? I would think consumerism, fast food, poverty, media, but I wouldn't at all think meat consumption. If you mean to say that meat is linked in a very passive and ideal way, and that you choose to not associate with meat because meat consumption opposes the increasingly prevalent spiritual sympathy for animals then fair enough. Though, meat consumption is the cause of nothing, we've been doing it for millions of years.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

There are adverts going around in Australia at the moment that highlight that without eating red-meats, our homo-sapien forefathers would not've developed into homo-sapien-sapiens. Any geeks want to argue this?

Personally, I have a bit of a problem with vegetarian in that, in most cases, people are not eating correctly. Sure you CAN get all the proteins and oils you need from alternate food sources, but realistically madey, are you everyday? I feel the application of vegetarianism is too hard for me; why I went back to eating meat. I'd bet my last $1.00 that 9 vegetarians out of 10 is not eating healthily everyday.

Aye, and neither are 9/10 of meat eaters. Vegitarians can't take a high horse and neither can we.

[Mr. Ron]

We have a way of manipulating human nature to fit our morality with new technology and ideas.

Except we will never change something that is inherently a part of our nature and DNA. We will always be wasteful, greedy, murdering, hateful people.

[sweboy]

That's because humans are omnivores. Omnivores tend to have secure populations because they don't have to compete for food. And these industries you refer to are just as much a reflection of the will to survive as that of any other species. There are a ton of other animals that directly influence their surroundings to improve their chances of survival.

And don't bring up this question of magnitude. Having more an influence on the environment does not exempt you from natural tendencies, nor does having a stable and flourishing population.



You initially used that argument to suggest that humans are outside of nature and the ecosystem, which they aren't.

Industrialized humans can't be viewed as omnivores nor herbivores, because we don't follow the laws of ecology. We're not even part of the natural food chain. We don't depend on the ecosystem like all other species, we create our own ecosystems (farms and such), unnatural ecosystems outside of nature, to get food from.

Sure, you can say that everything humans do is natural and that we're just another species in the ecosystem, but if you actually want to make sense of things from an ecological viewpoint, you have to differentiate between humans and other species and between natural occurrences and human interaction. And that's why we define the word "natural" as we do.

There are adverts going around in Australia at the moment that highlight that without eating red-meats, our homo-sapien forefathers would not've developed into homo-sapien-sapiens. Any geeks want to argue this?


Human evolutionary history is also built on murder and xenophobia, should we uphold that too? Really, human nature is not something you want to base your morals on, because it would get pretty ugly. And it does get pretty ugly when people follow human nature, hence a world full of murder, genocide, bigotry, selfishness, racism, sexism, speciesism and meat eating.

[pedro durruti]

Except we will never change something that is inherently a part of our nature and DNA. We will always be wasteful, greedy, murdering, hateful people.
We don't need meat any longer (in the First World) given the substitutes and proper diet information available to us.

I don't know, looking back on history and all of its atrocities, it seems like we're getting better. I mean just look at slavery. For a long time a lot of people had no problem with it, and now it's definitely viewed as terrible by most people. There's still racism of course, but even that is to a lesser degree than in previous centuries.

[I Am He]

We evolve. We could accelerate evolution through technology.

[Nick]

Except we will never change something that is inherently a part of our nature and DNA. We will always be wasteful, greedy, murdering, hateful people.

That's remarkably cynical, yet in a sense true

I guess the only thing to do is then to remove yourself from that mentality and live happily without imposing on others

[Mr. Ron]

We don't need meat any longer (in the First World) given the substitutes and proper diet information available to us.

I don't know, looking back on history and all of its atrocities, it seems like we're getting better. I mean just look at slavery. For a long time a lot of people had no problem with it, and now it's definitely viewed as terrible by most people. There's still racism of course, but even that is to a lesser degree than in previous centuries.

We don't need a lot of things to live. But I don't see why the option of meat should be done away with. I'd rather eat a nice steak than swallow down some supplements or muscle down a tofu burger.

Yeah, it only took a few thousand years for slavery to be abolished in most of the civilized world. But it still goes on. The white slave trade in South America alone is still booming.

[Mr. Ron]

That's remarkably cynical, yet in a sense true

I guess the only thing to do is then to remove yourself from that mentality and live happily without imposing on others

It's reality. Now, USUALLY the common stranger or person you know will be a nice, good spirited person. BUT if **** hits the fan, most of the time people will usually just look out for number one.

[pedro durruti]

We don't need a lot of things to live. But I don't see why the option of meat should be done away with. I'd rather eat a nice steak than swallow down some supplements or muscle down a tofu burger.

Yeah, it only took a few thousand years for slavery to be abolished in most of the civilized world. But it still goes on. The white slave trade in South America alone is still booming.
You may not see any reason, but a lot of people believe that it is wrong to cause suffering to or to kill anything that can feel it. It's so easy for us to feel detached from the animals we eat because we never experience their deaths firsthand (unless you're a hunter, which I think you've mentioned before that you are). But hey, you never know, we'll probably be able to create a substitue for every type of meat with identical taste.

I think that the more the world integrates into democracy the less things like this will happen.

[sweboy]

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

[pedro durruti]

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat
I want to try some human in vitro meat...

[Ethan.]

Aren't vegetarians weaker than regular eaters?

[Mr. Ron]

You may not see any reason, but a lot of people believe that it is wrong to cause suffering to or to kill anything that can feel it. It's so easy for us to feel detached from the animals we eat because we never experience their deaths firsthand (unless you're a hunter, which I think you've mentioned before that you are). But hey, you never know, we'll probably be able to create a substitue for every type of meat with identical taste.

I think that the more the world integrates into democracy the less things like this will happen.

Meh, I truly don't care enough to feel bad about animals being used for food. I DO care about what is put into the meat, like chemicals and hormones.

[pedro durruti]

You should watch some vegan propaganda films, maybe that'll change your mind... heheh.

But seriously, that **** is brutal.

[Mr. Ron]

You should watch some vegan propaganda films, maybe that'll change your mind... heheh.

But seriously, that **** is brutal.

I've seen them. I do disagree with some of th processes, but if you're going to kill something there's going to be pain no matter how you slice it.

[pedro durruti]

I've seen them. I do disagree with some of th processes, but if you're going to kill something there's going to be pain no matter how you slice it.
Well yeah, but in the factory farms they are subjected to an extraordinary amount of pain long before they are butchered.

[Mr. Ron]

Well yeah, but in the factory farms they are subjected to an extraordinary amount of pain long before they are butchered.

I do agree the butchering process needs to be changed. A free range bill or something.

[sr800bkBassist]

Aren't vegetarians weaker than regular eaters?

if they don't take care of themselves, sure.
but there are plenty of vegetarians and vegans that are very strong. and millions of meat-eaters that are very weak. so that generalization doesn't really work.

and as for it being part of nature to eat meat, let's see everyone go use their bodies to take out a wild animal. like a boar. you see, we already violated "natural laws" by creating domestic animals, such as those harmless little pink pigs. so if you want to go natural, you need to go all the way. so, with your teeth (which many argue are evidence we are meant to eat meat), your hands, your legs, your body in general, chase down a wild boar, bite its jugular, and eat it. raw. that's natural.

why do we get sick from raw meat? the meat-eating animals such a cheetahs or lions never have to burn their food to a crisp. so we can eat, what, raw fish? maybe some raw bugs? not much else we can eat raw without our stomachs rejecting it.

face it, we are extremely low on the food chain. if it was us in our natural state versus most wild animals in their natural state, we'd be gone. hell, we can hardly even survive in most ecosystems without shelter, heaters, air-conditioners, jackets, shoes, etc.

so our option? go UNnatural. that could include manipulating what was once nature, rounding it all up, selectively breeding it for the genes that are most docile, yet still plump enough for food (we also selectively breed vegetables for the best genes. everything has genes and we've been manipulating that since the beginning even in the most primative of ways) and locking them up for systematic slaughter. another way is to just leave them alone, and create substitutes with just as much protein as meat (many forget this and start to think that we veggies are defficient of protein. only the lazy ones are) and survive off that without having to kill anything without the few casualties that result in harvesting, but that is obviously less than if it were full-on meat farming. one way we have to kill, one way we don't. the choice was easy for me, and has been for over 2 years now.

and many people bash soy products. many of them taste great. the only ones i can think of that aren't too great are the lesser known sketchy brands, many of the mock-breakfast sausage links, and some may find the generic veggie burgers to not taste like real ones. i think they taste good, but there' a noticeable difference.

but as for everything else, i find it to taste just as good. morningstar corndogs taste like Wienerschnitzel dogs (i don't know if you have a Wienerschnitzel near you, but i liked them a lot when i ate meat). most veggie hot dogs (morningstar, smartdogs, etc) taste perfectly real. morningstar "chik'n" patties taste just like real breaded chicken patties, only less greasy. morningstar ground beef tastes real. same with their ground taco meat. and garden veggie patties (most are made by morningstar) are amazing. they don't try to taste like meat. they are like a pattie that's lightly colored and has mushrooms, peppers, everything inside it, and it's great because rather than trying to be a vegetarian alternative for a burger, it's just made to taste really really good and still has high protein.

[PerpetualBurn]

and as for it being part of nature to eat meat, let's see everyone go use their bodies to take out a wild animal. like a boar. you see, we already violated "natural laws" by creating domestic animals, such as those harmless little pink pigs. so if you want to go natural, you need to go all the way. so, with your teeth (which many argue are evidence we are meant to eat meat), your hands, your legs, your body in general, chase down a wild boar, bite its jugular, and eat it. raw. that's natural.

False. The natural order is still that animals eat other animals, and since animals can be nutritionally valuable to us, we may as well keep at it.

why do we get sick from raw meat? the meat-eating animals such a cheetahs or lions never have to burn their food to a crisp. so we can eat, what, raw fish? maybe some raw bugs? not much else we can eat raw without our stomachs rejecting it.

Why can't I eat poisonous mushrooms?

face it, we are extremely low on the food chain. if it was us in our natural state versus most wild animals in their natural state, we'd be gone. hell, we can hardly even survive in most ecosystems without shelter, heaters, air-conditioners, jackets, shoes, etc.

We aren't a part of the food chain we're so advanced. Animals can't take us on because we're far too smart.

We WERE in a natural state with animals. We DID have to hunt them. We kicked 7 shades of **** out of them.

so our option? go UNnatural. that could include manipulating what was once nature, rounding it all up, selectively breeding it for the genes that are most docile, yet still plump enough for food (we also selectively breed vegetables for the best genes. everything has genes and we've been manipulating that since the beginning even in the most primative of ways) and locking them up for systematic slaughter. another way is to just leave them alone, and create substitutes with just as much protein as meat (many forget this and start to think that we veggies are defficient of protein. only the lazy ones are) and survive off that without having to kill anything without the few casualties that result in harvesting, but that is obviously less than if it were full-on meat farming. one way we have to kill, one way we don't. the choice was easy for me, and has been for over 2 years now.

Or we could just keep eating meat because we enjoy it and provided we act as humanely as we can towards them, nobody cares about how many animals die.

and many people bash soy products. many of them taste great. the only ones i can think of that aren't too great are the lesser known sketchy brands, many of the mock-breakfast sausage links, and some may find the generic veggie burgers to not taste like real ones. i think they taste good, but there' a noticeable difference.

You can't beat crispy duck. I've not found non-meat close to it. Fortunately you haven't provided reason for me to stop slaughtering ducks.

but as for everything else, i find it to taste just as good. morningstar corndogs taste like Wienerschnitzel dogs (i don't know if you have a Wienerschnitzel near you, but i liked them a lot when i ate meat). most veggie hot dogs (morningstar, smartdogs, etc) taste perfectly real. morningstar "chik'n" patties taste just like real breaded chicken patties, only less greasy. morningstar ground beef tastes real. same with their ground taco meat. and garden veggie patties (most are made by morningstar) are amazing. they don't try to taste like meat. they are like a pattie that's lightly colored and has mushrooms, peppers, everything inside it, and it's great because rather than trying to be a vegetarian alternative for a burger, it's just made to taste really really good and still has high protein.

I've eaten a fair amount of veggie cuisine, and I've found nothing that tastes like meat. Often it tastes very good, and I will sometimes opt for it over meat (mood dependent), but I haven't found anything like a juicy steak.

[Ethan.]

if they don't take care of themselves, sure.
but there are plenty of vegetarians and vegans that are very strong. and millions of meat-eaters that are very weak. so that generalization doesn't really work.

and as for it being part of nature to eat meat, let's see everyone go use their bodies to take out a wild animal. like a boar. you see, we already violated "natural laws" by creating domestic animals, such as those harmless little pink pigs. so if you want to go natural, you need to go all the way. so, with your teeth (which many argue are evidence we are meant to eat meat), your hands, your legs, your body in general, chase down a wild boar, bite its jugular, and eat it. raw. that's natural.

why do we get sick from raw meat? the meat-eating animals such a cheetahs or lions never have to burn their food to a crisp. so we can eat, what, raw fish? maybe some raw bugs? not much else we can eat raw without our stomachs rejecting it.

face it, we are extremely low on the food chain. if it was us in our natural state versus most wild animals in their natural state, we'd be gone. hell, we can hardly even survive in most ecosystems without shelter, heaters, air-conditioners, jackets, shoes, etc.

so our option? go UNnatural. that could include manipulating what was once nature, rounding it all up, selectively breeding it for the genes that are most docile, yet still plump enough for food (we also selectively breed vegetables for the best genes. everything has genes and we've been manipulating that since the beginning even in the most primative of ways) and locking them up for systematic slaughter. another way is to just leave them alone, and create substitutes with just as much protein as meat (many forget this and start to think that we veggies are defficient of protein. only the lazy ones are) and survive off that without having to kill anything without the few casualties that result in harvesting, but that is obviously less than if it were full-on meat farming. one way we have to kill, one way we don't. the choice was easy for me, and has been for over 2 years now.

and many people bash soy products. many of them taste great. the only ones i can think of that aren't too great are the lesser known sketchy brands, many of the mock-breakfast sausage links, and some may find the generic veggie burgers to not taste like real ones. i think they taste good, but there' a noticeable difference.

but as for everything else, i find it to taste just as good. morningstar corndogs taste like Wienerschnitzel dogs (i don't know if you have a Wienerschnitzel near you, but i liked them a lot when i ate meat). most veggie hot dogs (morningstar, smartdogs, etc) taste perfectly real. morningstar "chik'n" patties taste just like real breaded chicken patties, only less greasy. morningstar ground beef tastes real. same with their ground taco meat. and garden veggie patties (most are made by morningstar) are amazing. they don't try to taste like meat. they are like a pattie that's lightly colored and has mushrooms, peppers, everything inside it, and it's great because rather than trying to be a vegetarian alternative for a burger, it's just made to taste really really good and still has high protein.
Damn write a book :lol:
Haha just kidding.

The reason I said that is because I know protien has a lot to do with building muscles, and it seems to me like eating meat is healthier. But that's probably how it seems to every other person that doesn't know a whole lot about foods...

I didn't know they had so many substitutes for meat... Kind of interesting.

Try not to take anything I say offensively; I don't mean for it to be. But I am wondering why exactly do you guys not eat meat? The whole idea of not eating meat seems kind of silly to me.

[Smokey D]

another way is to just leave them alone, and create substitutes with just as much protein as meat (many forget this and start to think that we veggies are defficient of protein. only the lazy ones are) and survive off that without having to kill anything without the few casualties that result in harvesting, but that is obviously less than if it were full-on meat farming.

Wait wait. If we fed cows with our suped up protein substitutes, wouldn't those cows have even more protein for us to absorb when we ate them?

[sr800bkBassist]

False. The natural order is still that animals eat other animals, and since animals can be nutritionally valuable to us, we may as well keep at it. well that's when the moral argument comes in. indeed, animals are of nutritional value, but i will cite the discovery channel on this one: human meat is the most nutritional meat a person can eat. it matches our systems perfectly, just the right amount of proteins, acids, fats, enzymes, all that. it's a perfect match for our nutritional needs. would you eat a humanely killed human?



Why can't I eat poisonous mushrooms?hmm? because they’re poisonous. i don't get this one. perhaps you're trying to imply that this is a plant we should not eat and therefore on level with meats? somewhat, yes. but that's not a good argument. obviously we can't eat poisonous plants (in this case, fungi) and obviously we can't naturally eat most meats except for certain fish. but then you cook it and you can eat it. but when you think about it, if someone told you a(n) had a diet consisting of horsemeat, but could only eat charred horsemeat because eating it naturally would get it sick, you'd kind of wonder if something was up.



[We aren't a part of the food chain we're so advanced. Animals can't take us on because we're far too smart.somewhat true, i kind of agree. but many will argue that we are on top. and they're wrong. but animals [i]can take us on, every year they take people on and every year the people get their **** ****ed up. unless the person has the assistance of something we have created outside of nature (guns, traps, cages, etc). but on the playingfield of the natural world, we get messed up.

We WERE in a natural state with animals. We DID have to hunt them. We kicked 7 shades of **** out of them.yes we were in a natural state with animals. and we did hunt them. and during that time, the human population was strictly limited because survival of the fittest had ruled out the majority of the human population as weak and inadequate compared to everything else. sabretooth tigers killed us. mammoths killed us. the WEATHER killed us. only a few humans were even fit to compete in the wild, and they were dominated for a long time until they used their brains.without our brains, however, our bodies wouldn't do the job. think of a continent like america. i dare anyone here to try to make it without clothes, pre-prepared food/water, shelter, or anything while living in the huge deserts of the southwest. in Death Valley, it can be 120*F, easily. our bodies are weak.



Or we could just keep eating meat because we enjoy it and provided we act as humanely as we can towards them, nobody cares about how many animals die. again, moral argument. and we don't act as humanely as we can. many jews eat kosher, which means that the animals were not caged, and they were killed painlessly (it also means not eating pork because apparently pigs are too "dirty"). there's a reason why hardly any food we eat is qualified as kosher food. and obviously people do care, otherwise there wouldn't have been millions of vegetarians for so many hundreds of years.



You can't beat crispy duck. I've not found non-meat close to it. Fortunately you haven't provided reason for me to stop slaughtering ducks.true, i can't. the only reason i can give you is again a moral argument. i find it wrong to take a duck's life if it is simply for leisure purposes. if i was starving in the wild and i found a duck, you could be sure i would toss a harpoon right through him. but i'm not. and to kill for good tasting food isn't enough of a reason to kill, for me at least.



I've eaten a fair amount of veggie cuisine, and I've found nothing that tastes like meat. Often it tastes very good, and I will sometimes opt for it over meat (mood dependent), but I haven't found anything like a juicy steak.

this is true. i never liked steak so i never cared. too greasy and heavy for me. always made my body feel weird (same applied for most beef). but i have never seen a steak substitute before and i doubt they really could imitate it.

[Smokey D]

hmm? because they’re poisonous. i don't get this one. perhaps you're trying to imply that this is a plant we should not eat and therefore on level with meats? somewhat, yes. but that's not a good argument. obviously we can't eat poisonous plants (in this case, fungi) and obviously we can't naturally eat most meats except for certain fish. but then you cook it and you can eat it. but when you think about it, if someone told you a(n) [insert animal name here] had a diet consisting of horsemeat, but could only eat charred horsemeat because eating it naturally would get it sick, you'd kind of wonder if something was up.

Raw meat dishes aren't unheard of.

[sr800bkBassist]

Raw meat dishes aren't unheard of.

but you know what happens when someone eats a raw burger or steak? your stomach won't be very happy with your choices.

[Smokey D]

Everything in moderation. You'll kill yourself if you eat too many carrots too.

[sr800bkBassist]

Everything in moderation. You'll kill yourself if you eat too many carrots too.

eating one raw hamburger is way different than eating one raw carrot. that's why places get sued for not cooking their red meats thoroughly. it's bad for the stomach.

[Smokey D]

It's bad if you ingest bacteria that would be killed in the cooking process. In itself, a well prepared steak tartare or something is not going to kill you.

[TheOpethAffinity]

but you know what happens when someone eats a raw burger or steak? your stomach won't be very happy with your choices.

you can also get sick from eating raw lettuce and stuff because of the traces of animal droppings on it.

[TheOpethAffinity]

I like to eat meat. I believe it tastes good. Mmm, meat.

[sr800bkBassist]

you can also get sick from eating raw lettuce and stuff because of the traces of animal droppings on it.

that's why you wash it. not cook it. and when you eat raw beef, you get sick because of the beef itself. all the things that were naturally inside it from the beginning. but when you eat lettuce with turds on it, you're not getting sick from something that was part of the lettuce. you're getting sick from eating turd.

[TheOpethAffinity]

Here's a video yall should be interested in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sjkBeSnKwc

it made me feel for him more than them stupidass PETA propaganda vids =(

[sr800bkBassist]

I like to eat meat. I believe it tastes good. Mmm, meat.

i don't get that. the whole thing with people who eat meat saying "mm meat" or "mmm tastey cow" around people who don't eat meat. the only vegetarians who take that offensively are the little girls that pick it up for fashion for a few months and then quit after it gets too hard.

for more dedicated vegetarians and vegans, that kind of stuff doesn't really bother us. just like when people are like "loo! look at this picture of steak! doesn't it gross you out?" it doesn't. i've gone so long without eating meat that it just doesn't even cross my mind. i just don't eat it. i wouldn't eat a piece of paper, doesn't mean i get offended or grossed out at the site of someone eating paper, or at the site of a piece of paper on the table. it's just not something you reallybother with.

so generally the people trying to get a rise out of non-meat-eaters by saying "mmm meat" or "yeah, tastey cow" usually just end up looking like annoying stereotypes.

EDIT:
Here's a video yall should be interested in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sjkBeSnKwc

i wrote this post before seeing this, and you have even furthur proved my point. only one person ends up looking like the idiot in these situations.

[TheOpethAffinity]

i don't get that. the whole thing with people who eat meat saying "mm meat" or "mmm tastey cow" around people who don't eat meat. the only vegetarians who take that offensively are the little girls that pick it up for fashion for a few months and then quit after it gets too hard.

for more dedicated vegetarians and vegans, that kind of stuff doesn't really bother us. just like when people are like "loo! look at this picture of steak! doesn't it gross you out?" it doesn't. i've gone so long without eating meat that it just doesn't even cross my mind. i just don't eat it. i wouldn't eat a piece of paper, doesn't mean i get offended or grossed out at the site of someone eating paper, or at the site of a piece of paper on the table. it's just not something you reallybother with.

so generally the people trying to get a rise out of non-meat-eaters by saying "mmm meat" or "yeah, tastey cow" usually just end up looking like annoying stereotypes.

EDIT:


i wrote this post before seeing this, and you have even furthur proved my point. only one person ends up looking like the idiot in these situations.

I write a sentence or two on my opinion about meat and post a link to a video and I get this. Yay.

[sr800bkBassist]

yes, you get that. not because you were voicing your humble opinion, but because you were trying in vain to be edgey and get a rise out of people but really you were just being unoriginal and stereotypical.

[TheOpethAffinity]

you were trying in vain to be edgey and get a rise out of people but really you were just being unoriginal and stereotypical.

You are an idiot.

[sr800bkBassist]

just please, i beg you, PLEASE, JUST REMOVE THE LINK TO THAT VIDEO. FOR I CANNOT BEAR TO WATCH THAT INNOCENT LOBSTER BE SLAUGHTERED. WHY GOD? WHY? I'M JUST A POOR VEGETARIAN, AND MY EYES ARE SENSITIVE TO THIS CRUELTY.

[TheOpethAffinity]

PS the video wasnt intended to "get a rise" out of anyone, its an interesting vid that makes me think about "animal rights" alittle more.

[CrossTheBreeze]

I thought the video was funny for the first few seconds, but then I just felt kinda bad for the lobster. I can't believe the idiot didn't kill it before cutting off the claws and what not

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Here's a video yall should be interested in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sjkBeSnKwc

it made me feel for him more than them stupidass PETA propaganda vids =(

UGh god damn i hate the PETA

[The_Passenger]

I'm pretty sure most sensible people do as well.

[badtaste]

I'm assuming most vegetarians don't watch Iron Chef. You have to be cruel to produce tasty food sometimes.