Playing in 19/8.

[Wlokos]

I've been messing around with some 19/8 playing, and was just wondering if anybody else has done anything in that time signature. I've found that one good way to play it is 7/7/5 subdivisions, such as this beat:

HT = High Tom, MT = Middle Tom, LT = Low Tom (assuming a three tom setup), BD = Bass Drum, F = flam and O is just a normal hit.

x=eighth note


HT|FxxxxxxFxxxxxxFxxxx
MT|xxOxOxxxxOxOxxxxOxx
LT|xxOxxOxxxOxxOxxxxOx
BD|xOxOxxOxOxOxxOxOxxO


Fills are still pretty rough, though, I haven't gotten totally used to it. If anybody else has some beats for that signature or just tips/whatever, I'd love to see them.

[Kratos]

The only tip I can think of is subdivide it as many ways as possible so you get used to feeling it different ways. For example, 2s & 3s, 4/4/4/4/3, 5/5/5/4, etc. I probably won't ever play in this particular time sig, simply because it seems like the phrase is way too long -- 19/16 would be more plausible for me.

[Wlokos]

Well, I play it fast, I guess it's really 19/16, I've just never done a /16 before so I didn't think of it that way.

[moogoogaipan]

haha... time signatures like these are just so guys can talk big.

I hear kids talking all the time about advanced time signatures, like they are some musically genius badass.

Sure, sometimes they are definitely useful, but unless you are following a melody , it's almost pointless

[mamcdonald]

Agreed. Especially since a phrase as long as 19/8 would probably just be written as a few smaller bars anyway. I bet it's barely EVER been used.

[Skin Beater]

haha... time signatures like these are just so guys can talk big.

I hear kids talking all the time about advanced time signatures, like they are some musically genius badass.

Sure, sometimes they are definitely useful, but unless you are following a melody , it's almost pointless

I agree with this. All these kids on here play two bars of 4/4, throw an extra eighth note in there and say look at me i'm playing in 17/8!!!!

[Tillmon]

Unless you're joining the Dave Holland Quintet, don't waste your time on such an obscure time signature.

[Futuro]

Hey guys I play midtempo rock, I like to play in bars of 35/4 and 134/16.

You know what is more impressive than 19/8? Making 4/4 sound good.

[We_Love_Lime]

Hey guys I play midtempo rock, I like to play in bars of 35/4 and 134/16.

You know what is more impressive than 19/8? Making 4/4 sound good.

What a stud.

Futuro is Godlike.

[sLarkin20]

4/4 4life

[Kratos]

Hey guys I play midtempo rock, I like to play in bars of 35/4 and 134/16.

You know what is more impressive than 19/8? Making 4/4 sound good.


I've always felt that making 4/4 sound like an odd time signature is more impressive than making an odd time signature sound like 4/4.

[London Prophet]

Wlokos, you posted this over at GF

I'll say what i said there - just use the first 7 beats, it makes a much better 7/8 rhythm since the last 5 sound tacked on.

[nonsense!]

haha... time signatures like these are just so guys can talk big.

I hear kids talking all the time about advanced time signatures, like they are some musically genius badass.

Sure, sometimes they are definitely useful, but unless you are following a melody , it's almost pointless

Am I a newbie for never really having an interest in any time signatures besides 4/4 and cut time?

[Kratos]

I wouldn't equate interest to experience. I have no interest in playing punk, but that doesn't mean I couldn't play it, nor does it mean I haven't been playing for very long. The same thing goes for 19/8 -- I'm not drawn to bizarre time signatures, and I'm not new to drumming.

[Killtacular]

Am I a newbie for never really having an interest in any time signatures besides 4/4 and cut time?
No. In fact, you are a god among men.

We salute you.

[Tillmon]

Chances are, there are more useful things you could be working on (time, technique, rudiments) than a weird unconventional time signature that you will never use.

[Jezen]

Uncommon sigs doesn't always equate to music.


Maths is not music.

[Tillmon]

unless you're dream theater and you write music in odd time signatures just for the sake of writing music in odd time signatures.

[Jezen]

There's a difference between 5/4 and 19/8....

[jalel]

only if you want there to be

[Coma Divine]

haha... time signatures like these are just so guys can talk big.

I hear kids talking all the time about advanced time signatures, like they are some musically genius badass.

Sure, sometimes they are definitely useful, but unless you are following a melody , it's almost pointless

Of course it's almost pointless to practice 19/8 by yourself but with my band (which revolves around the bass guitar), my bassist just comes up with different riffs while we jam and we have to figure out the meter. Sometimes it's 4/4, sometimes it's 17/8, not everyone who plays in odd meters tries to make it odd just to say that it is.

[Josiah]

Also being able to play, phrase and work with other time signatures gives you a better handle on more normal ones.

Just like working on 5's, 7's and 9's gives you a better handle on 8ths, 16ths and 32nds.

[Jezen]

only if you want there to be

What the hell? What are you talking about?

[moogoogaipan]

What the hell? What are you talking about?
what are you talking about?

[trysthedrummer]

That's just stupid, I agree Moongiapan (sp?) it's pretty pointless. Same goes for 10/8, you never see it, although it probably has been used in some, modernistic sort of music.

[drummerdude9574]

4/4 5/4 2/2 7/8 i like the RUSH approach haha thats what i call it

like add up the time signatures and make them a 4/4

genius.

[London Prophet]

4/4 5/4 2/2 7/8 i like the RUSH approach haha thats what i call it

like add up the time signatures and make them a 4/4

genius.

Listen to Radiohead - Pyramid Song, essentially 3/8, 2/8, 3/8 to make 8/8.

My old band used to have a song which ended with alternating bars of 7/8 and 9/8. I really oughttohave put bell accents on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 2, 4, 6, 8, ... would have sounded awesome to have the 4/4 over the top but i wasn't good enough when we wrote the song (spent too much time keeping my thoughts on the actual 7/8 and 9/8 rhythms).

[raz0r]

unless you're dream theater and you write music in odd time signatures just for the sake of writing music in odd time signatures.

Except that's not how they write.

I'm pretty sure that they come up with riffs that just happen to be in odd time sigs.

They're not just technical for the sake of being technical, like, say, Spastic Ink.

[Jezen]

what are you talking about?

I'm talking about the difference between 19/8 and 5/4. I don't know how to explain that any clearer.

[jalel]

19/8 is just a bar of 5/4 and 9/8. That's what I was getting at. Sorry for making you angry.............

[moogoogaipan]

I'm talking about the difference between 19/8 and 5/4. I don't know how to explain that any clearer.
I was just being silly:p

[rhythmically retarded]

Odd time sigs are also for the purpose of creating moving lines that really come alive, if you stick in 4/4 all the time then moving lines sound boxed in a nice grid prison that is western friendly. And I agree that it is harder to write odd phrasing in 4/4 than to play odd time sigs...
Just my 2 cents.

[Byron]

superimposing odd times over 4/4 is really where it is at, I am currently into playing quarter note quintuplets in the place of eighth notes, it still hasn't sounded good though during a song besides one or two unique moments

[Josiah]

superimposing odd times over 4/4 is really where it is at, I am currently into playing quarter note quintuplets in the place of eighth notes,


Say what?


quarter note quintuplet would be 5 quarters per bar instead of 4. How does that work into replacing 8th notes?

[Det_Nosnip]

I've always felt that making 4/4 sound like an odd time signature is more impressive than making an odd time signature sound like 4/4.

Why? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I treat time signatures as key signatures. Different meters are useful for different situations...there's nothing particularly great about 4/4, particularly to the point of limiting the entire extent of your musical career to it. Hey, if you can make 19/8 groove...go for it! I tend to work well in 7s for some reason...Tool seems to be pretty big fans of 5. Indigenous cultures have been writing music outside of the realm of 4/4 for centuries, and I GUARANTEE they weren't doing that just to "be technical." 9/8 is particularly common both in Middle Eastern and Irish folk traditions, and Macedonian music tends to have alot of 7s. Indian music, on the other hand...that's a whole 'nother ballgame. :cool:

[Music rockS]

P.S. That tab is awful. I can't tell what you are supposed to be playing...I don't have three hands.

[lmldrummer]

P.S. That tab is awful. I can't tell what you are supposed to be playing...I don't have three hands.


Pretty sure the x's are supposed to be -'s

[Loser]

HT|FxxxxxxFxxxxxxFxxxx
MT|xxOxOxxxxOxOxxxxOxx
LT|xxOxxOxxxOxxOxxxxOx
BD|xOxOxxOxOxOxxOxOxxO




I don't see why you have to make tabs harder to read than they already are:

HT|F------F------F----
MT|--O-O----O-O----O--
LT|--O--O---O--O----O-
BD|-O-O--O-O-O--O-O--O

[Det_Nosnip]

P.S. That tab is awful. I can't tell what you are supposed to be playing...I don't have three hands.

Well, **** dude...go find yourself a conguero and figure it out. ;)

[LiquidTensionTheatre]

Why? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I treat time signatures as key signatures. Different meters are useful for different situations...there's nothing particularly great about 4/4, particularly to the point of limiting the entire extent of your musical career to it. Hey, if you can make 19/8 groove...go for it!

Yes, yes yes yes yes yes.

IMO... If you can make 4/3, or 5/4, or 15/16 sound good, play it. Different people obviously have different standpoints on how deeply they're going to read into their music, but unless you're raised on western pop music, I don't see why 4/4 has to be the standpoint around which everything revolves. Or, why everything aside from 4/4 should be called an "odd" time signature.

To the TS... I haven't experimented in 19/8. 13/16 is my favourite sig at the moment. My guitarist has a strange penchant for 13/16.

~~

[XAQ]

Except that's not how they write.

I'm pretty sure that they come up with riffs that just happen to be in odd time sigs.

They're not just technical for the sake of being technical, like, say, Spastic Ink.

nah thats what dream theater does thats why their music kinda sucks

[Jezen]

^^^
That is a very stupid thing to say.

[Byron]

Say what?


quarter note quintuplet would be 5 quarters per bar instead of 4. How does that work into replacing 8th notes?
hmmm.....I actually was a little confused by that, because, quarter note triplets are in two beats, triplet eighth notes are in one, so I thought that if quintuplet eighth notes are in one beat, then quarter notes would take two beats or else there is no jump. Also, since playing every other quint. eighth note until you have played five would be same thing, I figured that would mean that it would take two beats

[LiquidTensionTheatre]

nah thats what dream theater does thats why their music kinda sucks

That is indeed a hideously silly thing to say, IMO. :thumb:

~~

[raz0r]

nah thats what dream theater does thats why their music kinda sucks
No. No it's not.

[Josiah]

19/8 is an aweful long bar... i'djust think of it myself as 2 groups of 8 plus a group of 3.

[Sync0pation]

can any post an example of how a 4/4 can sound like a odd time sig and vice versa? like a specific song or a tab

[Josiah]

Well.. it's simple really.

Say you have a tune that's in 4, and you want to impose 5 over a given section. Simply play in 5, add an extra quarter note onto the grooves phrase. Just remember where the bar lines are falling so you know where to come back in on the 1!

[Jezen]

can any post an example of how a 4/4 can sound like a odd time sig and vice versa? like a specific song or a tab

I'd be happy to. I'll give it a shot when I get home.

[Det_Nosnip]

can any post an example of how a 4/4 can sound like a odd time sig and vice versa? like a specific song or a tab
Meshuggah.



Yes, yes yes yes yes yes.

IMO... If you can make 4/3...

Unfortunately, there is no such thing...but, yeah.

[KK2K5]

i dont think anyone's mentioned that the reason most music is in 4/4 is so people can dance to it. Besides musicians, not many people seem to grasp the idea of odd time signitutures. I guess its like what others said earlier, if you can make the music grrove in odd time then people are more likely to dance. I'd say Pink Floyd's Money is a good example. The 7/4 riff is so easy to nod along to, if ya know what i mean.

[Det_Nosnip]

Actually, you're completely wrong. Odd meters like 9/8 are extremely popular in Middle Eastern dancing, and one of the most common forms of Irish dance is the Slip Jig, which is also in 9/8. More people in the west may be used to 4/4 because that is what they've had shoved down their throats from day 1, but there isn't anything particularly "danceable" to it compared to other meters.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

Yes, odd time signatures are useful for feeling the shapes of the rhythm in 4/4 and 9/8 and 7/4. I like to think of experimenting with things like this as necessary to realize the possibilitie for finding ideas that can interest yourself. Besides, the idea of "time signatures" is pretty much all in the notation and having it dictate your music is kind of an axiomatic situation to be in.

/post in this forum

[Sabian4015]

It's not hard to play in any time signature as long as you have other instruments that know their music and know how to count. They have the melody. And anyways, 18/9 is strange and sounds kinda wierd. Sounds like all the sudden you go from one time sig to another one for one measure and then go back.

[Mpm3001]

i like to play in 12.7/14.35
Nah Im just kidding.. but really... i do.

But seriously, playing in really crazy time signatures like the ones being talked about almost never happens/needed like some are saying. But, I dont guess it hurts to expand your horizons?

[RoaRing_Roach]

Except that's not how they write.

I'm pretty sure that they come up with riffs that just happen to be in odd time sigs.

They're not just technical for the sake of being technical, like, say, Spastic Ink.

nope.
Dream Theater make their music parts tricky(which is cool).(math)
while e.g Tool make music which happens to be tricky.(feel)

there's a thin line...

[Det_Nosnip]

There's a process of learning and experience...immersing yourself in different musical styles and environments, practicing phrasings, etc. After a while, funky stuff like that just kinda comes out naturally. When I write, I try not to think too much about what I'm doing and just let it happen, and I've come up with some pretty wacky stuff (as Josiah and Jim can attest to). Don't assume that something is incredibly complicated or technical just because the artist set out to write it that way.

[Killtacular]

The other day I just started playing, and it turned out it to be in 5/4. Which was weird, because I didn't set out to play it in 5/4. I just played.


/e-shrug

[jiashen]

When I went to the Dream Theater concert I realised I couldn't do stuff like head bop to the music coz of all the odd meters. haha. That was a little sad actually. I like head bopping.

[RoaRing_Roach]

do you mean head banging?

[RoaRing_Roach]

There's a process of learning and experience...immersing yourself in different musical styles and environments, practicing phrasings, etc. After a while, funky stuff like that just kinda comes out naturally. When I write, I try not to think too much about what I'm doing and just let it happen, and I've come up with some pretty wacky stuff (as Josiah and Jim can attest to). Don't assume that something is incredibly complicated or technical just because the artist set out to write it that way.

you are right. but this is the feel I get when I am listening to Dream Theater(I like them, I have 3 albums) and I have double crossed it with many friends

[jiashen]

haha doesn't double crossing mean betraying? ah I meant head bobbing. head-banging and head-bobbing are distinct. You can't watch all the action when you're head-banging, only hair.

[RoaRing_Roach]

I don't know. What I meant is that what I believe is similar to what others believe too.

[Chester]

I think practicing weird time signatures can be useful just for the sake of... learning how to play in weird time signatures. Theres nothng wrong with playing in 19/16 or whatever, but its not going to have too much use in the music world.

And to the comments on Dream Theater. There is a difference between them and just playing in random time signatures just because. Dream Theater creates complicated melodies, and incorporates different time signatures in with their melodies. I highly doubt they sit down and say ok... im going to write a song in 5/4, then have it switch to 9/8 or anything like that.
Some melodies need other time signatures than 4/4. I recently wrote a song (keep in mind i wrote it on bass, not drums) and was just playing, then realized that the first three measures were in 4/4, then the last was in 5/4. It wasnt because i wanted to, its just the way I thought of it.
But i agree with the person that said that music is mainly in 4/4 for dancing, but i think its better to say (for clarification) american pop culture is very associated with this.

[Sponer]

I've always felt that making 4/4 sound like an odd time signature is more impressive than making an odd time signature sound like 4/4.

Exactly.
Meshuggah? ;)

[Det_Nosnip]

Yep. Already mentioned 'em.

[Futuro]

Since when does a time signature sound a certain way?

[Josiah]

YBesides, the idea of "time signatures" is pretty much all in the notation and having it dictate your music is kind of an axiomatic situation to be in.


Incredibly true. It's all for the notation/communication of ideas.

Most time signatures have a feel/sound associated with them. But it is true, that anything can be written (and therefore technically played) in anything without anyone knowing.

Because they do have that common association of feel/sound. Most of the more common "odd" time signatures are easily heard by those respective oddities.