PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[Light Flantastic]

its not practical to discuss things using terms that dont really indicate anything specific

[TerranYouApart]

obviously not with such blundering fools like yourself, but for the rest of us, we get the gist. an argument about the terms themselves would be a completely separate argument.

it's like arguing about the name of music genres, it's mostly pretentious, really annoying people that do it and in the end it is completely inconsequential to the main point being discussed. shut up!

[Light Flantastic]

you're the one who suggested we be concise

you cant be concise without being accurate

i do enjoy how my being right upsets you on some deep level though, as always

[Iskandar]

Yeah, having an ideology is dumb, but an ideology and the ideas that contribute to it aren't the same thing.Having an ideology is not dumb. It's a cohesive set of values we can aim to achieve.
You don't have any compassion, what's wrong with you these days? I don't care how much you like me, because it mostly has no bearing on me at all, but it seems you're just bitterly holding a grudge, and irresponsibly as a poor mod.It's not that I don't like you, it's that your posting has become weird and irrelevant.
Then what about humanism, what do you think about that? Which, in fact, is related to anarchism and could just as easily fall under it as it could fall under humanism.It's not really related to anarchism at all but I don't see it as much more than an attempt to define universal values in the wake of secularism. In that respect it's no better or worse than any other philosophy, I guess.
no he's saying he's such an individual and soooo original that we need to stop using these broad terms because he doesn't fall in either one of them.Lol except 90% of libertarians are firmly on the right.

[Light Flantastic]

and 90% of black people commit crime lets use black instead of criminal no wait that would be stupid

besides they are on the right hurr thats the point

they arent, however, religious/authoritarian/whatever the **** pedro thinks constitutes 'right'

[Der Übermensch]

Lol except 90% of libertarians are firmly on the right.
Only in the US. It is an almost exclusively left-wing term in Europe.

[Iskandar]

Only in the US. It is an almost exclusively left-wing term in Europe.I am aware.

Self-proclaimed libertarians tend to be Americans. In Europe they would probably be better described as syndicalists or something.

[Light Flantastic]

Only in the US. It is an almost exclusively left-wing term in Europe.i dont think thats true

[The_Passenger]

I've heard people descirbe themselves as Libertarians in the 'American sense' over here, doesn't seem widespread though. Certainly never heard anyone described as a syndicalist.

[Light Flantastic]

the uk lp holds the same positions as the american one

so do all the other ones i know in the various european states

[Der Übermensch]

i dont think thats true

It's a synonym for anarchism.

[Light Flantastic]

no its not

[Iskandar]

I've heard people descirbe themselves as Libertarians in the 'American sense' over here, doesn't seem widespread though. Certainly never heard anyone described as a syndicalist.You're in England right? In continental Europe those people would just call themselves liberals.
It's a synonym for anarchism.Yeah pretty much.

[The_Passenger]

You're in England right? In continental Europe those people would just call themselves liberals.
Yeah pretty much.

Yeah I'm England, didn't realise you were talking exclusively about the mainland, in that case I have no idea.

[Iskandar]

Yeah I'm England, didn't realise you were talking exclusively about the mainland, in that case I have no idea.Well the terminology has stayed pretty consistent there, since that's where most of these ideologies originated.

[Light Flantastic]

but you said libertarians arent on the right in europe

when they are

so what

for the record iskandar has me on ignore but he's pretty much just making this stuff up i mean you can go check the continental libertarian parties' websites if you want

[Light Flantastic]

to quote the dutch libertarian party, for example

Libertarianism is a philosophy with individual freedom at its heart. It is based upon self-determination: that the individual is free to have his body and the fruits of his labor, as long as he does not infringe on another person's body or property. Libertarians are fundamentally opposed to tax and regulation and call for both personal and economic freedom. Libertarian philosophers include John Locke, Ayn Rand and Robert Nozick; and economists such as Adam Smith and Nobel Prize winners Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek.

http://www.libertarischepartij.nl/

[The_Passenger]

but you said libertarians arent on the right in europe

when they are

so what

for the record iskandar has me on ignore but he's pretty much just making this stuff up i mean you can go check the continental libertarian parties' websites if you want

He has you on ignore? Well I spose you never were a mods' favourite tbf

In fairness to Dropper, just checking the French Liberal Party's page seems to support his thoughts on what continental Libertarian's call themselves, though that may not be the case elsewhere.

[Light Flantastic]

the original suggestion was that people who call themselves 'libertarian' in europe are on the left whereas american 'libertarians' are on the right

which is incorrect

the liberals thing is a red herring idk why that was brought up

[Iskandar]

In fairness to Dropper, just checking the French Liberal Party's page seems to support his thoughts on what continental Libertarian's call themselves, though that may not be the case elsewhere.I'm talking about liberals. In (continental) Europe, liberals are similar to what we'd call libertarians here, or maybe neo-liberals.

[The_Passenger]

I'm talking about liberals. In (continental) Europe, liberals are similar to what we'd call libertarians here, or maybe neo-liberals.

Yeah that's what I meant, looking at the French Liberal Party's website they seem to subscribe to views that would be considered Libertarian in the US.

the original suggestion was that people who call themselves 'libertarian' in europe are on the left whereas american 'libertarians' are on the right

which is incorrect

oh right, don't think I even saw that part of the discussion

[Iskandar]

Yeah that's what I meant, looking at the French Liberal Party's website they seem to subscribe to views that would be considered Libertarian in the US.Yes, and in Germany, Denmark, Estonia and lots of other places.

[Light Flantastic]

thats not really true either all of the european parties that call themselves 'liberal' are social liberals

liberal is a specific term you shouldnt confuse it with liberty in translation

[TerranYouApart]

It's a synonym for anarchism.

LOL. :p

practicality at its finest.

[McP3000]

fwwwooooooshhh

[pedro durruti]

Having an ideology is not dumb. It's a cohesive set of values we can aim to achieve.
now you're saying what you weren't saying before. when i said having an ideology, i meant being fixated so much to the extent that your ideology narrows and determines the lens in which you view the world through, rather than applying the ideas within that ideology, while also equally and fairly applying other ideas from other ideologies, so they form a dialectic. not letting one ideology rule and supersede the others, but cooperating and working together. which is why taking an anarchist perspective, in a loose manner, is a good idea, rather than something dumb, because anarchism is fundamentally an 'ideology' of peace and cooperation.
It's not that I don't like you, it's that your posting has become weird and irrelevant.
that's not necessarily a reason to delete or close (in smokey's case) my threads. if you look at the threads floating around out here, there's a lot of idle chatter going on. i'm just trying to add something, even if it doesn't elevate above anything more than idle chatter. and just because you view it as irrelevant or "weird" (which is a completely normalizing and absurd term) does not mean others do or that it cannot propel into a decent discussion.
It's not really related to anarchism at all but I don't see it as much more than an attempt to define universal values in the wake of secularism. In that respect it's no better or worse than any other philosophy, I guess.
i'd say they have similar goals. quite similar goals.

[Light Flantastic]

if libertarianism is a synonym for anarchism then fruit is a synonym for banana

[McP3000]

prophet bundle of sticks

[pedro durruti]

to quote the dutch libertarian party, for example

Libertarianism is a philosophy with individual freedom at its heart. It is based upon self-determination: that the individual is free to have his body and the fruits of his labor, as long as he does not infringe on another person's body or property. Libertarians are fundamentally opposed to tax and regulation and call for both personal and economic freedom. Libertarian philosophers include John Locke, Ayn Rand and Robert Nozick; and economists such as Adam Smith and Nobel Prize winners Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek.

http://www.libertarischepartij.nl/
haha, rand and locke arent libertarians. because if libertarianism is at its heart an ideology of individual freedom, then it must be a collective ideology, because the individual's freedom is inherently bound up with the collective's, and rand or locke's and i assume all the other's don't give a **** about that. property is too problematic to allow individual freedom for everybody.

[Light Flantastic]

thats irrelevant to european libertarians having the same stances as american ones

which is what we were talking about

[pedro durruti]

ok well im drunk so i dont know what's going on exactly.
if libertarianism is a synonym for anarchism then fruit is a synonym for banana
it's just a word. besides "libertarianism" would be a controversial term because everybody wants to compete for the freest system of thought.

[McP3000]

ok well im drunk so i dont know what's going on exactly.
^^^

[pedro durruti]

i mean in the trajectory of the conversation. i know a lot of what's going on, so stop trying to insult me.

[Iskandar]

now you're saying what you weren't saying before. when i said having an ideology, i meant being fixated so much to the extent that your ideology narrows and determines the lens in which you view the world through, rather than applying the ideas within that ideology, while also equally and fairly applying other ideas from other ideologies, so they form a dialectic. not letting one ideology rule and supersede the others, but cooperating and working together. which is why taking an anarchist perspective, in a loose manner, is a good idea, rather than something dumb, because anarchism is fundamentally an 'ideology' of peace and cooperation.There are better ways of doing that than anarchism.
that's not necessarily a reason to delete or close (in smokey's case) my threads. if you look at the threads floating around out here, there's a lot of idle chatter going on. i'm just trying to add something, even if it doesn't elevate above anything more than idle chatter. and just because you view it as irrelevant or "weird" (which is a completely normalizing and absurd term) does not mean others do or that it cannot propel into a decent discussion.
Make better threads and we won't close them.
i'd say they have similar goals. quite similar goals.Who does.

[McP3000]

whore

[pedro durruti]

peace, anarchism, cooperation, love, humanity, equality, egalitarianism, those are all interchangable terms. love transcends any ideology or word.
Make better threads and we won't close them.
you can't dismiss a thread on its first page or even first two pages. a thread is made up of its posts and a person can spark a thread with one post and make the thread, three pages in. give them a chance. i'm not trying to be mischievious, i'm trying to promote something good. i'm not used to making threads anyways, so i can't always express them in the most "suitable" ways
Who does.
anarchists and humanists.

[pedro durruti]

whore
haha, that's not an insult. whores are some of the most admirable workers in the world!

[Smokey D]

you can't dismiss a thread on its first page or even first two pages. a thread is made up of its posts and a person can spark a thread with one post and make the thread, three pages in. give them a chance. i'm not trying to be mischievious, i'm trying to promote something good. i'm not used to making threads anyways, so i can't always express them in the most "suitable" ways

Actually, I can.

Good threads flow from good posts. Your mind vomit isn't a good post.

And you used to be alright so I don't know why you're trying to be all edgy and post modern now.

[TerranYouApart]

his posts are art

btw: http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6140432 lol why does this guy even bother posting?

[Light Flantastic]

you cant link to searches dumdum

[gregulus]

you cant link to searches dumdum

lololol.

[TerranYouApart]

oh it worked right after i posted it. oh well, look at mcp3000's recent posts. lololol

Oh yeah, I wanted to post this. Italian customs finds $134 Billion in US bonds in a suitcase.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,630158,00.html

Apparently there will be a windfall if these are real, but I don't think they are.

[Iskandar]

peace, anarchism, cooperation, love, humanity, equality, egalitarianism, those are all interchangable terms. love transcends any ideology or word.You can apply all the modifiers to the word "anarchism" that you want (and anarchists certainly do so) but at its core it's nothing more than an anti-state political ideology.

[gregulus]

What do you guys think about the possible legislation limiting the amount of nicotine and such in cigarettes? A lot of people are livid and, as one might expect, the cries of "socialist state" are growing louder and louder.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090612/D98OQ0CG0.html

[Iskandar]

That has nothing to do with socialism.

I don't really care either way though because I'm not a smoker.

[Light Flantastic]

well socialism can only lead to such things since everyone is paying for the health of everyone and its in one persons interest to tell another that he cant make bad lifestyle choices

[beso negro]

That has nothing to do with socialism.

how so?

[TerranYouApart]

i'd say ban cigarettes and alcohol.

or legalize everything.

[McP3000]

wat

[Radiobass81]

well socialism can only lead to such things since everyone is paying for the health of everyone and its in one persons interest to tell another that he cant make bad lifestyle choices

That's absurdly stupid.

[Light Flantastic]

and thats a logical argument

[Iskandar]

how so?What do cigarettes have to do with the welfare state. Socialism is about providing public goods for people, not restricting what they can consume.

[Mr. Ron]

historically it has

[Iskandar]

historically it hasYeah, and historically capitalists had no problem with child labour. Ideologies change.

[cmb1888]

It'll be because the national health service is a part of the welfare state. Therefore a lot of people have the view that the state is paying for the health costs of cigarettes and so have the right to control them (and the health costs) 'for the greater good'.

[gregulus]

It'll be because the national health service is a part of the welfare state. Therefore a lot of people have the view that the state is paying for the health costs of cigarettes and so have the right to control them (and the health costs) 'for the greater good'.

The US doesn't have universal health care.

[Iskandar]

That's one possible view. It's also possible that the most ardent conservative could think the nicotine content of cigarettes should be regulated because of public health concerns.

[cmb1888]

The US doesn't have universal health care.

my mistake - saw welfare state and thought UK

[gregulus]

That's one possible view. It's also possible that the most ardent conservative could think the nicotine content of cigarettes should be regulated because of public health concerns.

The bill passed like 79-17 or something like that (apparently not everyone voted). It's hardly a librul soshulist scheme.

[Iskandar]

America has a welfare state too of sorts.
The bill passed like 79-17 or something like that (apparently not everyone voted). It's hardly a librul soshulist scheme.Yeah that's kind of my point.

[gregulus]

America has a welfare state too of sorts.

A rather half-assed one, tbh. That's probably because politicians have to disguise it or else people get their panties in a wad.

[cmb1888]

America has a welfare state too of sorts.


okay then , saw cigarettes and welfare state and thought national health service

[Iskandar]

A rather half-assed one, tbh. That's probably because politicians have to disguise it or else people get their panties in a wad.Well yeah.

Durned librul sawshulists.

[gregulus]

but apparently to some Americans they are.
More than some. The word "socialist" carries similar connotations now to what it did during McCarthy's hay-day. It's a giant red-herring.

[Iskandar]

More than some. The word "socialist" carries similar connotations now to what it did during McCarthy's hay-day. It's a giant red-herring.I know.

[beso negro]

That's absurdly stupid.

lol how? it makes perfect sense.

What do cigarettes have to do with the welfare state. Socialism is about providing public goods for people, not restricting what they can consume.

In a universal health care system it would be in everyone's best interest to ban activities that lead to an unhealthy lifestyle, such as smoking, eating fast food, and drinking sodas.

[Smokey D]

Yeah, and historically capitalists had no problem with child labour. Ideologies change.

Child labour laws are part of the socialist state.

The right way of doing things is having children work 16 hour shifts while smoking high nicotine cigarettes.

[Iskandar]

lol how? it makes perfect sense.

In a universal health care system it would be in everyone's best interest to ban activities that lead to an unhealthy lifestyle, such as smoking, eating fast food, and drinking sodas.It would be in everyone's best interest in any society except for the private healthcare providers.

But that's irrelevant. People are free to be as unhealthy as they want. They just shouldn't expect other people to pay for it.

(And I don't know why you're talking about banning stuff when it was originally limiting the amount of nicotine in cigarettes.)
Child labour laws are part of the socialist state.

The right way of doing things is having children work 16 hour shifts while smoking high nicotine cigarettes.
Posts like this are why I come here.

[Light Flantastic]

child labour laws were enacted after child labour was no longer needed in the market its not really an issue today but children should have property rights and the right to work if they so please

[Light Flantastic]

People are free to be as unhealthy as they want. They just shouldn't expect other people to pay for it.perhaps the most ironic post i've ever seen

[McP3000]

i lol'd too chad

[Aaron]

It's pretty true.

[Light Flantastic]

inside joke

well not really

widely known joke to everyone thats not you

[Aaron]

/eats
/cries
/cuts

[Iskandar]

Your result for The How Culturally Jewish Are You? Test ...
The Brandeis Student

You scored 64% for Jewishness and 63% for Yiddishkeit!
You may not practice much now, or at all, but you sure grew up Jewish, didn't you? Whatever the situation now, you come out of a Yiddishkeit-infused background, and it has left a deep impression on you. We're not sure, but we suspect you may have taken a summer class or two in Yiddish -- we swear, we didn't think you'd get so many of those answers right! Very Jewish, and very Jew-ish.

Compared to other takers

* 80/100 You scored 64% on Jewishness, higher than 80% of your peers.
* 87/100 You scored 63% on Yiddishkeit, higher than 87% of your peers.

[McP3000]

ay carumba

[Iskandar]

The correct expression is "oy, vey iz mir!".

[Mr. Ron]

Papers, please.

[Aaron]

We grew here, you flew here.

[die of starvation]

hay the dropper how is pretending to be a semite on the internet working out for you

[McP3000]

lol tway

[Iskandar]

hay the dropper how is pretending to be a semite on the internet working out for youטוב תודה ואתה

[YDtoad]

so i just finished a book on life under Pol Pot (title: First They Killed My Father; very good book).
yup, the regime that Noam Chomsky spent years lying for. Because he'd love a genocidal regime in America, one that he could rule over as Pol Pot ruled over Cambodia.

[Mr. Ron]

u sound crazy bro

[YDtoad]

u sound crazy bro

na chomsky is the crazy one :o

[gregulus]

yup, the regime that Noam Chomsky spent years lying for. Because he'd love a genocidal regime in America, one that he could rule over as Pol Pot ruled over Cambodia.
lol.

[Iskandar]

Steve stop trolling dammit.

Or if you're actually serious, stop having bad opinions.

[mph4ever]

does anyone really think chomsky was just a mouthpiece for the establishment, sort of threw out criticism to help the rebelious amongst us feel they had a voice. was he tied to the peg and never strained the leash?

[Iskandar]

No I think he's a guy who's angry about stuff but goes about it the wrong way and draws silly conclusions.

Oh yeah and he's totally an aspiring genocidal dictator. First on the chopping block will be affluent white Christian males from Pittsburgh.

[McP3000]

racist

[YDtoad]

Steve stop trolling dammit.

Or if you're actually serious, stop having bad opinions.

it's impossible to have a good opinion about a bad man, and chomsky is a very, very bad person.


No I think he's a guy who's angry about stuff but goes about it the wrong way and draws silly conclusions.


There was nothing silly about him propagandizing for the most brutal regime of the last 50 years. He lied to help a dictator who was starving his people, because the two share a hatred of wealthy people, the west, etc.

[Dave de Sylvia]

He is a dogmatic moron, but he's hardly alone in that category.

[Iskandar]

it's impossible to have a good opinion about a bad man, and chomsky is a very, very bad person.Having bad opinions isn't the same as having bad actions.

Chomsky isn't the Ho Chi Minh of academia.
There was nothing silly about him propagandizing for the most brutal regime of the last 50 years.There is something silly about you claiming he wants to be Pol Pot.

[YDtoad]

Having bad opinions isn't the same as having bad actions.

Chomsky didn't merely have a bad opinion. He actively propagandized for an incredibly cruel regime. That is an action. Bad actions make you a bad person.


Chomsky isn't the Ho Chi Minh of academia.

Actually that's a very good analogy. Both for his defense of atrocious human rights violators and for the way he tried to purge the linguistics field of people who disagreed with him.


There is something silly about you claiming he wants to be Pol Pot.

Not at all. The Weather Underground wanted to kill a third of all Americans; he's basically along the same lines. Eliminationist radical leftism.

And like any good leftist tyrant, he's very happy to spread the propaganda, receive the praise from the deluded followers, and live a life of luxury while claiming to fight for the 'common man.'

[mph4ever]

No I think he's a guy who's angry about stuff but goes about it the wrong way and draws silly conclusions.

so you don't think hes a puppet who draws the conclusions that his masters want him to? interesting

Oh yeah and he's totally an aspiring genocidal dictator. First on the chopping block will be affluent white Christian males from Pittsburgh.
now you have just gone about that the wrong way and drawn a silly conclusion

[Iskandar]

Chomsky didn't merely have a bad opinion. He actively propagandized for an incredibly cruel regime. That is an action. Bad actions make you a bad person.And this makes him worse than any number of intellectuals who did this for a whole whack of bad regimes.

And how does this make him want to be Pol Pot again.
Actually that's a very good analogy. Both for his defense of atrocious human rights violators and for the way he tried to purge the linguistics field of people who disagreed with him.Yeah Chomsky conducts guerilla warfare.

Not at all. The Weather Underground wanted to kill a third of all Americans; he's basically along the same lines. Eliminationist radical leftism.Yeah Chomsky wants to kill a third of Americans.

Get real.
so you don't think hes a puppet who draws the conclusions that his masters want him to? interestingWhat masters.

[YDtoad]

And this makes him worse than any number of intellectuals who did this for a whole whack of bad regimes.

Well yeah the leftists who championed Chairman Mao were basically as bad. But none of them were as high profile, or did as much damage, as Chomsky. If your only defense is "well yeah but there were other bad people too", that doesn't alter the basic fundamental reality that Chomsky is a deeply disturbed and disturbing person.


And how does this make him want to be Pol Pot again.
Yeah Chomsky conducts guerilla warfare.

No he leaves that to the thugs like the Weather Underground. He's too comfortable in his lily white ensconcement.

Yeah Chomsky wants to kill a third of Americans.

That was Pol Pot's number in Cambodia and the number The Weather Underground was comfortable with in America. Maybe Chomsky's is a little higher

[Iskandar]

Well yeah the leftists who championed Chairman Mao were basically as bad. But none of them were as high profile, or did as much damage, as Chomsky. If your only defense is "well yeah but there were other bad people too", that doesn't alter the basic fundamental reality that Chomsky is a deeply disturbed and disturbing person.Got any brutal regimes he's currently championing or just from 30 years ago.
No he leaves that to the thugs like the Weather Underground. He's too comfortable in his lily white ensconcement.

That was Pol Pot's number in Cambodia and the number The Weather Underground was comfortable with in America. Maybe Chomsky's is a little higherYeah Chomsky has ties to the Weather Underground and wants to kill one half of Americans.

Seriously, stop.

[YDtoad]

Got any brutal regimes he's currently championing or just from 30 years ago.

He's retreated somewhat from defending horrendous regimes as his credibility dropped in that sphere. Now he just spends all of his time attacking non-horrendous regimes. He's never apologized for his PR work for the Khmer Rouge.


Yeah Chomsky has ties to the Weather Underground and wants to kill one half of Americans.

Ideologically they're little different. Except the WU was a bunch of spoiled rich kids who wanted to unleash the death and destruction they saw elsewhere, whereas Chomsky is a spoiled rich guy who much prefers sitting back in Massachusetts and telling lies.

[Radiobass81]

I don't know much about Chomsky, can you tell me which regimes he's defended?

[Iskandar]

He's retreated somewhat from defending horrendous regimes as his credibility dropped in that sphere. Now he just spends all of his time attacking non-horrendous regimes. He's never apologized for his PR work for the Khmer Rouge.Meaning he hasn't done that for 30 years.

That he should apologize is a given.

[YDtoad]

Meaning he hasn't done that for 30 years.


So should we forgive the people who worked as propagandists for Nazi Germany, because it was a long time ago? Chomsky was no better than the Nazi front groups that existed in America, lying for Hitler, because Pol Pot was every bit as evil as Hitler.

The only reason he doesn't continue to do so is that now it's much more difficult to lie for terrible regimes.

[Iskandar]

You're seeing what you want to believe. You hate Chomsky, so you're trying to convince yourself he's Hitler instead of a loony academic. You do the same with Obama.

[YDtoad]

You're seeing what you want to believe. You hate Chomsky, so you're trying to convince yourself he's Hitler instead of a loony academic. You do the same with Obama.

There are plenty of loony academics who do loony things. Then there are the few that spent considerable energies defending genocidal leftist states. Chomsky is in that category. That's not being loony, that's being evil.

[Iskandar]

Aren't we talking about Chomsky now.

I love how you added the qualifier "leftist", because that makes genocide so much worse.

[YDtoad]

Aren't we talking about Chomsky now.

I love how you added the qualifier "leftist", because that makes genocide so much worse.

The fact is that most extreme human rights violators in the last 50 years have been leftists. And defense of extreme human rights violations is basically exclusively a leftist phenomena.

[Iskandar]

The fact is that most extreme human rights violators in the last 50 years have been leftists. And defense of extreme human rights violations is basically exclusively a leftist phenomena.No it's not stop saying crap. You just don't want to admit that there have been tons of right-wing human rights violators and plenty on the right who look the other way to human rights abuses.

[YDtoad]

No it's not stop saying crap.

What precisely are you disagreeing with? We've seen leftist states committing massive human rights violations in Cambodia, Myanmar, North Korea, China, Ethiopia, etc. and leftist rebel groups such as the Shining Path doing the same in the quest for power.

Who exactly will you offer as a counter-example? What, will you try to argue that Islamic dictators like Saddam and the Iranian Mullahs somehow represent the 'right'? How about finding noted conservatives defending genocidal right-wing leaders?

[Light Flantastic]

hes going to say hitler

[Iskandar]

What precisely are you disagreeing with? We've seen leftist states committing massive human rights violations in Cambodia, Myanmar, North Korea, China, Ethiopia, etc. and leftist rebel groups such as the Shining Path doing the same in the quest for power.

Who exactly will you offer as a counter-example? What, will you try to argue that Islamic dictators like Saddam and the Iranian Mullahs somehow represent the 'right'? How about finding noted conservatives defending genocidal right-wing leaders?Communism represents the left about as well as Islamism represents the right.

Do I need to track down every right-wing dictator ever and every conservative who supported them? I really don't want to do but we can start with the enthusiastic support that fascism had among much of the business elite.

[Light Flantastic]

he might still say it

im holding out for it

[YDtoad]

Communism represents the left about as well as Islamism represents the right.

Do I need to track down every right-wing dictator ever and every conservative who supported them? I really don't want to do but we can start with the enthusiastic support that fascism had among much of the business elite.

that's really not much of an argument.

[Smokey D]

Left-wing right wing doesn't make sense at the extremes of politics.

Even if Chomsky did defend the Khmer Rouge or whoever else, it doesn't automatically disqualify him from passing insightful commentary on the US and its power relations.

[Ando!]

The fact is that most extreme human rights violators in the last 50 years have been leftists. And defense of extreme human rights violations is basically exclusively a leftist phenomena.

correlation is causation guys i have a poli sci degree

[Ando!]

also because being a dirty leftist causes you to commit genocide and other atrocities, center-right politicians like Barack Obama are socialist nazis

[TerranYouApart]

that's really not much of an argument.

it's hard to argue with the things you say. if i were to try this would be my thought process.

"hmm...
:lol:
......
:lol:
he can't really believe this..
omg...
:lol:"

gj man, you are so right! but you haven't shown me the light, only made me laugh.

[Iskandar]

also because being a dirty leftist causes you to commit genocide and other atrocities, center-right politicians like Barack Obama are socialist nazisFascists weren't capitalists either, including Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, Hirohito and Pinochet.

Oh, but corporatism isn't capitalism because it's not laissez-faire? Then the United States isn't capitalist either.

[Light Flantastic]

socialist nazis
you're being redundant

national socialist


Hitleri told you he'd say it

[McP3000]

chad youre so wise

[Iskandar]

Guys I've had a change of heart. We need to abolish the state so we can vote with our dollars for the most ruthlessly efficient corporation to govern us. Then we can abolish those silly child labour laws and anti-discrimination legislation so the mud-children can work for us.

[sweboy]

I knew you'd come around eventually Droppa'.

[Iskandar]

That's Chief Executive Moderator Iskandar.

[Aaron]

It's a brave new world we live in, savage.

[Iskandar]

Aaron have you had your daily dose of soma.

[Light Flantastic]

We need to abolish the state so we can vote with our dollars

why do we even need to vote for anything really why is it your business what anyone else is doing that just seems like a dick move to me

[Aaron]

Aaron have you had your daily dose of soma.
Yes. Let's go to the feelies together.

[Iskandar]

Okay, as long as we don't have to sit in the proles' gallery.

(Crap, different book.)

[Smokey D]

you're being redundant

national socialist

i told you he'd say it

National socialists weren't socialists, and basically disavowed the idea of a workers revolution after the Night of the Long Knives.

[Iskandar]

Yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is democratic and a republic.

[Light Flantastic]

well im pretty sure they'd elect kim even in the freest of elections now

[Aaron]

I thought he was dead, and it was just a real-life Weekend At Bernie's situation??

[McP3000]

well im pretty sure they'd elect kim even in the freest of elections now
silly koreans

[Iskandar]

Yeah I'm pretty sure lots of North Koreans love Kim or at least pretend to after being indoctrinated from birth to do so, but it's pretty stupid to talk about what North Koreans would do in a free election when they've never had one.

Besides which it's irrelevant to the original point which is that North Korea claims to be democratic for political advantage but really isn't, just like the Nazis claimed to be socialist to gain popular support long after they'd purged the leftist elements within the party.

[Light Flantastic]

being democratic is irrelevant when the outcome would be the same

uneducated democracy is as bad as dictatorship

too bad the majority of people are uneducated in every country then

[McP3000]

being democratic is irrelevant when the outcome would be the same

uneducated democracy is as bad as dictatorship

too bad the majority of people are uneducated in every country then
just so iskandy can see it ;]

[Iskandar]

Why would I care.

[McP3000]

bcuz i know u wub his posts silly :-*

[Light Flantastic]

iskandar got tired of debating things in the politics forum so he hid my posts

i wish i could make all of the people who disagree with me disappear :[

[McP3000]

and nothing of value was lost

[die of starvation]

the dropper is a stupid face

[Iskandar]

bcuz i know u wub his posts silly :-*If I did, why would I put him on ignore list and never respond to him.
the dropper is a stupid faceYou're next.

[Smokey D]

Lol at a moderator putting people on ignore.

[Mr. Ron]

I just wanted to feel the power of saying that smokey don't take it personally

[Smokey D]

You're an angry, angry young man.

[Mr. Ron]

You're an angry, angry young man.
lol are you srs


i'm the same age as you haha

[Iskandar]

Lol at a moderator putting people on ignore.Why.

I don't need to see his posts anyway to know what they're going to say, so I just skip over them.

[Mr. Ron]

Alex you are drunk with power

[Iskandar]

No, I don't drink.

[Mr. Ron]

why not

[gregulus]

No, I don't drink.

Last time someone said this there was an extensive debate on the subject. You're such a instigator.

[Iskandar]

Last time someone said this there was an extensive debate on the subject. You're such a instigator.I really am.
why notI'm on medication.

[Mr. Ron]

oh I thought it was some silly jewish law or something

[Iskandar]

oh I thought it was some silly jewish law or somethingHuh? There are Jewish laws about when you need to drink, like to make Kiddush (blessing over wine) and Havdalah (the end of the Sabbath). As well it's traditional to drink four cups of wine at the Passover Seder and also traditional to get totally blotto on Purim.

By "I don't drink" I mean I don't go to bars and stuff and I don't pop open a cold one with the boys while watching the game.

[gregulus]

God, the idea of "popping open a cold one with the boys while watching the game" just seems terrible for some reason. Seriously.

[TerranYouApart]

dude beer rules u guys are prudes.

[Smokey D]

Why.

I don't need to see his posts anyway to know what they're going to say, so I just skip over them.

Yah but if you start ignoring everyone you don't like, then you can't moderate what their saying, duh.


By "I don't drink" I mean I don't go to bars and stuff and I don't pop open a cold one with the boys while watching the game.

Why the hell not?

Unless you're on long term medication or something.

PS antibiotics don't count.

[Dave de Sylvia]

wtf mods used to not be able to ignore users

[Iskandar]

Yah but if you start ignoring everyone you don't like, then you can't moderate what their saying, duh.I don't, just him.

If he said something particularly egregious I'd be able to tell.
Why the hell not?

Unless you're on long term medication or something.

PS antibiotics don't count.I just said I was, and no, they're SSRIs.

[Aaron]

I had a bagel for lunch today.

[Iskandar]

I had one a few hours ago. Actually it was more of a bagel sandwich.

[Aaron]

I had a blueberry bagel with cream cheese and honey.

[Iskandar]

Pretty good. Mine was poppyseed with mayonnaise, lettuce, tomato, Cheddar and Dijon and a kosher pickle on the side.

I'm going to bed.

[Iskandar]

Pretty good. Mine was poppyseed with mayonnaise, lettuce, tomato, Cheddar and Dijon and a kosher pickle on the side.

I'm going to bed.

[Aaron]

Nite.

[Light Flantastic]

If he said something particularly egregious I'd be able to tell.

i think i posted porn snugly between two of your posts once

well that was in the pit but, still, i know you'd have cleaned it up right away you jobsworth

[mph4ever]

I don't, just him.

If he said something particularly egregious I'd be able to tell.
I just said I was, and no, they're SSRIs.

do you suffer from premature ejaculation?

[1338 h4x0r]

he suffers from premature eZOGulation

[die of starvation]

lol the dropper on zoloft

[1338 h4x0r]

I am farting uncontrollably

These farts are particularly toxic jets of sulfurous gas which stick around in my pants, presenting a fire hazard even after I wipe away the vile residue

What should I do

[McP3000]

lol the dropper on zoloft
hey theres nothing wrong with that :angry:

[mph4ever]

'cept if'n you're prone to prematurely ejaculating

[Light Flantastic]

thats not something iskandar has to worry about

[gregulus]

RIP Ali Akbar Khan :(

[Mr. Ron]

who

[Iskandar]

lol the dropper on zoloftIt's not Zoloft.
do you suffer from premature ejaculation?No, I suffer from depression. Side effects include lethargy, oversleeping and weight loss but no sexual dysfunctions I'm aware of.
who Well-respected Indian classical musician. Like Ravi Shankar.

[Dave de Sylvia]

No, I suffer from depression. Side effects include lethargy, oversleeping and weight loss but no sexual dysfunctions I'm aware of.
Wait, aren't lethargy and oversleeping also symptoms of depression?

[Iskandar]

Wait, aren't lethargy and oversleeping also symptoms of depression?Yeah but this stuff makes me zone out so I have to take it right before going to bed.

[Smokey D]

Wait, aren't lethargy and oversleeping symptoms of being a teenager/young adult?

[Iskandar]

maybe you shouldn't take it. queer. quit trying to solve your life's problems with a pill and solve them yourself. you know, like you were one of the humans that lived >50 years ago and were depressed.

those pills are counter-productive, just cause u have free health care doesn't mean you should use it, ****ing commieShut up.

Wait, aren't lethargy and oversleeping symptoms of being a teenager/young adult?Being a depressed young adult means even more so. When I was 14 I'd sleep until noon; I woke up at 6 PM today.

[TerranYouApart]

Shut up.

put me on your ignore list and forever will i "shut up"

i'm just trying to help you.

[Dave de Sylvia]

bad gimmick?

[Iskandar]

put me on your ignore list and forever will i "shut up"

i'm just trying to help you.I appreciate the effort but you're really not.

The purpose of SSRIs is to address the chemical imbalances in the brain which lead people to be depressed in the first place. They're a tool, like therapy.

If Van Gogh had these options available to him I don't think he would have offed himself.

[TerranYouApart]

van gogh cut his ****ing ear off and mailed it to a bitch that isn't depression.

[Iskandar]

It's pretty clear he was mentally ill as **** and he didn't receive treatment.

The dude shot himself in the chest for no reason.

[mph4ever]

The purpose of SSRIs is to address the chemical imbalances in the brain which lead people to be depressed in the first place. They're a tool, like therapy, not a panacea.


and help people with premature ejaculation, btw.

[Iskandar]

and help people with premature ejaculation, btw.I'm aware of that but I don't have premature ejaculation.

If you really want to know (which I assume because you keep questioning me) they do succeed in delaying ejaculation for a while which comes in handy (no pun intended).

[Mr. Ron]

van gogh cut his ****ing ear off and mailed it to a bitch that isn't depression.
Why'd he gogh and do that for!?

[Dave de Sylvia]

It's pretty clear he was mentally ill as **** and he didn't receive treatment.

The dude shot himself in the chest for no reason.
i thought you said it was cause of depression

[mph4ever]

I'm aware of that but I don't have premature ejaculation.

If you really want to know (which I assume because you keep questioning me) they do succeed in delaying ejaculation for a while which comes in handy (no pun intended).

what pun?

[Dave de Sylvia]

Why'd he gogh and do that for!?
it's actually pronounced "hoch"

[Mr. Ron]

idc broooooo

[Iskandar]

i thought you said it was cause of depression
That's no reason! It's a made-up "disease" intended to swindle the hardworking masses into paying millions into the pockets of Big Pharma and Big Therapist.

[Dave de Sylvia]

idc broooooo
i bet you are iming people about it though

[Mr. Ron]

what

[McP3000]

the last 20 posts havent made sense

[gregulus]

who

Indian sarod player who was basically the best sarod player in the world.

[Iskandar]

the last 20 posts havent made senseYeah they have.

[mph4ever]

the last 20 posts havent made sense

have you ever been in business?

[Iskandar]

No but he's met a successful business before. Many times.

[mph4ever]

No but he's met a successful business before. Many times.


strange that he wouldn't notice one he sees it

[beso negro]

lol ssris lol

[Dave de Sylvia]

do you still think medication causes autism or whatever

[Mr. Ron]

"Daddy, why does Tommy have autism?"


"Tommy has autism because he has poor grades in school, son."

[Aaron]

I'm aware of that but I don't have premature ejaculation.

If you really want to know (which I assume because you keep questioning me) they do succeed in delaying ejaculation for a while which comes in handy (no pun intended).
lol, handy

[Iskandar]

lol ssris lolYes you know an awful lot about them don't you.

[gregulus]

"Daddy, why does Tommy have autism?"


"Tommy has autism because he has poor grades in school, son."

Impossible.

[Aaron]

He's a negro, he doesn't know anything significant.

[Mr. Ron]

so how are your nights going, gentlemen?

[Pop music sucks]

That's no reason! It's a made-up "disease" intended to swindle the hardworking masses into paying millions into the pockets of ... and Big Therapist.Hey now, in 6 years time I'll be a clinical psychologist!

[Aaron]

My morning is going good. Just finished my final exam for the session and making gifs:

http://i40.tinypic.com/33xx95i.jpg

[McP3000]

have you ever been in business?
yes, vv srs bsnss

[TerranYouApart]

sucking dicks is a serious business, if the customer isn't happy, you could get more than you bargained for, right mcp?

[McP3000]

are you someone else with a new account or am i missing something

[TerranYouApart]

you just put off the "i like dicks" vibe i dunno :confused:

[Mr. Ron]

My morning is going good. Just finished my final exam for the session and making gifs:

http://i40.tinypic.com/33xx95i.jpg
terrifying

[TerranYouApart]

nappy headed ho

[Aaron]

What?

[Iskandar]

so how are your nights going, gentlemen?Mine was pretty good.

[McP3000]

mine was smashing

[Already_Taken]

this is ****ing bullshit why the **** was i banned i know it was one of the faggotass mods who posted on the last 2 pages of the thread and you gave no ****ing **** reason mother ****er pussy *** pussy bitch you butthurt asshole i'm putting every goddamn person on this forum on my ignore list **** all you

[Iskandar]

Talking like that is a pretty good way to get yourself banned.

[Already_Taken]

well i didn't talk like that before and i still got banned

**** you, put me on your ignore list and take a pill to wash your troubles away, bitchtits

[mph4ever]

this is ****ing bullpoop why the **** was i banned i know it was one of the large bundle of sticksass mods who posted on the last 2 pages of the thread and you gave no ****ing **** reason mother ****er slightly confuzzled sea lion *** slightly confuzzled sea lion bitch you butthurt spatula i'm putting every goddamn person on this forum on my ignore list **** all you

i just hope no one looks here in the morning for inspiration. we could have another shoot the kids at school sessiion going down

[Light Flantastic]

a lesson learned

dont disagree with iskandar or he'll ban you

[mph4ever]

but that impossible. hes nearly always wrong

[beso negro]

Yes you know an awful lot about them don't you.

i know enough that when i was given some of them to flush them down the toilet

[Dave de Sylvia]

i'm glad that worked out well for you and hasn't rendered you overtly paranoid

[Light Flantastic]

you're all weirdos with character flaws

[McP3000]

youre a character flaw with a weird nose

[Iskandar]

i know enough that when i was given some of them to flush them down the toiletI agree, that's generally a good course of action for any prescribed medication, ranging from antibiotics to hypertension pills.

After all what do doctors know about what's best for your health.
well i didn't talk like that before and i still got banned

**** you, put me on your ignore list and take a pill to wash your troubles away, bitchtitsYou had it coming for a long time, believe me.

If you'd like to get banned again you don't have to keep talking like that to a moderator. You can just ask politely.

[Light Flantastic]

After all what do doctors know about what's best for your health.is that some fallacy

[mph4ever]

After all what do doctors know about what's best for your health.

not a lot really. mostly to prescribe drugs from the best paying pharma company

[Iskandar]

not a lot really. mostly to prescribe drugs from the best paying pharma companySo your real nemesis here is Big Pharma, not doctors.

Not that it matters because doctors don't get paid by them for prescribing their pills. Do you know how the medical system works.

[spitfirejunky]

bitchtits

Awful. Just awful.

[Iskandar]

I can't ****ing wait for ****ing Already_Taken to goddamn spew at me again and get ****ing banned that ****.

[mph4ever]

So your real nemesis here is Big Pharma, not doctors.

not at all. but general practioners are not what they used to be. cod liver oil used to solve most problems

Not that it matters because doctors don't get paid by them for prescribing their pills. Do you know how the medical system works.
the medical system works? where?

[Iskandar]

not at all. but general practioners are not what they used to be. cod liver oil used to solve most problemsLol no.
the medical system works? where?America, of course!

[Light Flantastic]

doctors just prescribe you with the thing that gets you dealt with the quickest

which in the case of depression will take the form of drugs over sessions with a psychologist, for example

[mph4ever]

doctors just prescribe you with the thing that gets you dealt with the quickest

which in the case of depression will take the form of drugs over sessions with a psychologist, for example

they help with premature ejaculation too, apparently

[Light Flantastic]

iskandar is just attention seeking anyway who tells people about their medical conditions on the internet thats just weird

[mph4ever]

people with low self esteem more than likely, not that i think iskander fits into that category

[Iskandar]

people with low self esteem more than likely, not that i think iskander fits into that categoryEveryone has low self esteem during a bout of depression.

The rest of the time not really though. I think I'm pretty alright.

[Light Flantastic]

Everyone has low self esteem during a bout of depression.
someone tell him this is plain retarded he cant read my insulting posts

[mph4ever]

Everyone has low self esteem during a bout of depression.

The rest of the time not really though. I think I'm pretty alright.

if'n ya keep ignoring people then context goes bye bye

[die of starvation]

cool we're still talking about the dropper on paxil

why u on it

why the dropper

[Iskandar]

I'm not on Paxil.

[die of starvation]

why u on generics

why the dropper

[Iskandar]

I'm not on generics. I'm on antidepressants because I'm depressed. Why is anyone on them. Aren't you on them.

[die of starvation]

**** no i did that **** for like 3 weeks

why u depressed

[Iskandar]

Um, it's psychological.