PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[McP3000]

i am le tired and le hungry


since iskandar is the mod, can he tax the rich MXers to redistribute food to me? i dont want to go downstairs.

[Already_Taken]

i'm not rich by any means, but i have some food i'd let you eat, dickhead.

[Pop music sucks]

Dickhead doesn't sound very tasty.

[mph4ever]

sounds salty

[Iskandar]

Well, check out the AJPS article.One article won't convince me.
You don't? He comes from a circle that promotes quasi-authoritarianism.


Only some personality cult regimes have gone so far. Others have done so much more gently. To my knowledge, Peron didn't go near as far. Neither is Obama. Especially when he can leave it to his minions to have their children sing songs of worship, to news broadcasters to bow before him and generally worship him on the air, etc.I repeat: Oh, whatever.
PS remember when the left defended Bill Ayers' terrorism? The right basically unanimously condemned the killing of the abortionist. Because the right rejects political violence, whereas the American left has a soft spot for it.Stop being partisan dammit.

You know it's a small minority of people on the "left" and right alike that support that sort of thing.

[YDtoad]

One article won't convince me.
I repeat: Oh, whatever.
Stop being partisan dammit.

You know it's a small minority of people on the "left" and right alike that support that sort of thing.

Much smaller on the right than the left. Many of the left's leading 'intellectuals' (eg Noam Chomskey) have long records of defending human rights abuses in the name of progress. And many on the left defended Ayers' actions and Obama's association with him.

[Iskandar]

Many of the left's leading 'intellectuals' (eg Noam Chomskey) have long records of defending human rights abuses in the name of progress.Oh and the right doesn't do this. Perhaps you've heard of the Kirkpatrick doctrine. Perhaps you've heard of neoliberalism. Perhaps you've heard of George W. Bush.

[Already_Taken]

notice how steve switched usernames and went on a hiatus while the new president was being ushered in? it is so that it would be less likely that people would note the crap he used to say when bush was in office about people badmouthing him, and how it would make him look like a hypocrite as he has now taken on the role.

an interesting social study for myself.

[McP3000]

i'm not rich by any means, but i have some food i'd let you eat, dickhead.
i dont want your food

i bet you eat tofu

[Mr. Ron]

only what he finds in a dumpster.

[McP3000]

i only eat the highest quality fast food

[Mr. Ron]

As you should, my delicate prince

[Iskandar]

Tofu's gross and I'm a vegetarian.

[McP3000]

hippy

i bet you smoke weed

[Mr. Ron]

alex stop being a vegetarian

[Iskandar]

alex stop being a vegetarianWhen you stop being a gun nut.

[McP3000]

mr ron's gun nuts are beautiful

[Iskandar]

I don't doubt it, but they should be kept out of reach of minors all the same.

[Mr. Ron]

When you stop being a gun nut.
My over abundance of testosterone induced magnificence would not allow it

[Pop music sucks]

I don't doubt it, but they should be kept out of reach of minors all the same.Wait are you talking about his guns or his nuts or his gun's nuts.

[Mr. Ron]

My nuts are impressive and have a despotic presence once unsheathed.

[pedro durruti]

ha ha

[pedro durruti]

do ye walk with a jock strap?

[Mr. Ron]

Nay.

[YDtoad]

Oh and the right doesn't do this. Perhaps you've heard of the Kirkpatrick doctrine. Perhaps you've heard of neoliberalism. Perhaps you've heard of George W. Bush.

George Bush is criticized for an unrealistic goal of democratization, quite the opposite of the embrace of tyranny. Neoliberalism in no way advocates authoritarianism let alone human rights abuses. And the Kirkpatrick doctrine was a pragmatic approach to preventing far worse human rights violations (the kind Chomsky and others defended) from arising. The left, on the other hand, defended those who subverted the democratic process and engaged in rampant human rights abuses.

But a good challenge all the same :)

[McP3000]

you should move to Texas Mr. Ron

we could unsheath your gun nuts on animals

[YDtoad]

No Ron is perfect for Maine because he has their blend of cultural leftism and anti-government sentiment.

[1338 h4x0r]

Isn't P.J. O'Rourke from Maine

He's cool

[FattyKnee]

My nuts are impressive and have a despotic presence once unsheathed.

lol

[Iskandar]

George Bush is criticized for an unrealistic goal of democratization, quite the opposite of the embrace of tyranny.Through military force which has not gained the results he advocated. There is hardly less authoritarianism in the Muslim world since the advent of the War on Terror.
Neoliberalism in no way advocates authoritarianism let alone human rights abuses.No, neoliberals just choose to look the other way when massive human rights abuses occur as long as they can profit (cough, China).
And the Kirkpatrick doctrine was a pragmatic approach to preventing far worse human rights violations (Supporting tyranny to prevent tyranny, what a concept.

[Mr. Ron]

No Ron is perfect for Maine because he has their blend of cultural leftism and anti-government sentiment.
Maine is beautiful. I like it there.


I'm not "anti-government". I'm for small government. I see the need for a government, I just disagree with the amount of involvement it has in our lives.


I'm a weird mix of beliefs, tbh. I have both left and right social perspectives.

[Iskandar]

Ron you're like a libertarian but far less dogmatic.

[Mr. Ron]

I never really liked the word "libertarian". I just call myself a classical liberal. Or something.

Its probably due to my household being a conservative one (however my mom and dad aren't really into politics that much). Socially though I'm for stuff like abortion, gay rights, legalizing pot. At the same time I'm for guns, strengthening the border(s), championing English and so on.

[Light Flantastic]

strengthening the border(s), championing English and so on.so you're a white nationalist

[Iskandar]

English is doing fine.

[Mr. Ron]

so you're a white nationalist
If I were a white nationalist I would kick all dem' mudz out, wouldn't I?

[Light Flantastic]

you veil your h8

[McP3000]

you express it

[YDtoad]

Through military force which has not gained the results he advocated.

We're arguing intent, not results.

There is hardly less authoritarianism in the Muslim world since the advent of the War on Terror.

Iraq and Afghanistan both have elected governments, whereas before they had horribly repressive dictators.


No, neoliberals just choose to look the other way when massive human rights abuses occur as long as they can profit (cough, China).

Neoliberals don't look the other way toward human rights abuses. It's just that there's only so much you can do in terms of pressuring China.


Supporting tyranny to prevent tyranny, what a concept.

Supporting relatively oppressive regimes to avoid severely repressive regimes, vs supporting terrible regimes and defending human rights abuses as legitimate actions towards 'progress'.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Well it's supporting an actual repressive regime to avoid a hypothetical, non-existent one.

[YDtoad]

Well it's supporting an actual repressive regime to avoid a hypothetical, non-existent one.

The threats were hardly non-existent (see: Shining Path).

[Dave de Sylvia]

one example among dozens

[Iskandar]

We're arguing intent, not results.

Iraq and Afghanistan both have elected governments, whereas before they had horribly repressive dictators.Results matter more and Iraq and Afghanistan are hardly better off than they were before. Freer? Marginally, but also much less safe, especially Iraq.
Neoliberals don't look the other way toward human rights abuses. It's just that there's only so much you can do in terms of pressuring China.Yes they do. They embrace the silly idea that the introduction of capitalism means rapid democratization (the correlation is weak at best) and thus they can cheerfully ignore the actions of tyrannical regimes because their ideology is transforming them for the better.
Supporting relatively oppressive regimes to avoid severely repressive regimes, vs supporting terrible regimes and defending human rights abuses as legitimate actions towards 'progress'.Wow that's not a false dichotomy. How about refusing to support any form of authoritarianism.

[YDtoad]

one example among dozens

well yeah you're right there are dozens of examples of horrible Marxist/Stalinist groups that the Kirkpatrick doctrine opposed.

[Dave de Sylvia]

oh wordplay

No, the Kirkpatrick Doctrine didn't discriminate between paramilitary regimes, brutal dictatorship and fledgling democracy. It is quite probable that the regimes installed and/or supported by the KD were more benign than what would have occurred, but it is also the case that it resulted in a 1:1 brutal dictatorship:state ratio, which is pretty ****ing embarrassing for a doctrine that was supposed to prevent brutal dictatorships.

[Iskandar]

By supporting ones that were hardly better. How anyone can claim to believe in freedom and do so is mind-boggling.

[YDtoad]

Results matter more and Iraq and Afghanistan are hardly better off than they were before. Freer? Marginally, but also much less safe, especially Iraq.

Iraq is significantly safer now than it was 2 years ago; much of the country is safer today than it was under Saddam (especially since there isn't the perpetual threat of Saddam murdering your family). Afghanistan is less 'safe' today than it was under Afghanistan but would you rather the Taliban be executing girls for the crime of being raped? Didn't think so.


Yes they do. They embrace the silly idea that the introduction of capitalism means rapid democratization (the correlation is weak at best) and thus they can cheerfully ignore the actions of tyrannical regimes because their ideology is transforming them for the better.

The correlation is far from weak at best; much work is done on the subject. I'm too lazy to actually grab some articles though--plus, Man vs Food is on the Travel channel. Guilty pleasure.


Wow that's not a false dichotomy. How about refusing to support any form of authoritarianism.

To not act is to act. If you do not act, and allow a group like the Khmer Rouge to come to power when it is within your power to prevent it, then you are almost as guilty as if you actively encouraged them.

[YDtoad]

oh wordplay

No, the Kirkpatrick Doctrine didn't discriminate between paramilitary regimes, brutal dictatorship and fledgling democracy. It is quite probable that the regimes installed and/or supported by the KD were more benign than what would have occurred, but it is also the case that it resulted in a 1:1 brutal dictatorship:state ratio, which is pretty ****ing embarrassing for a doctrine that was supposed to prevent brutal dictatorships.

Dude a major part of the KD was to differentiate authoritarian regimes from totalitarian regimes.

[Iskandar]

Iraq is significantly safer now than it was 2 years ago; much of the country is safer today than it was under Saddam (especially since there isn't the perpetual threat of Saddam murdering your family). Afghanistan is less 'safe' today than it was under Afghanistan but would you rather the Taliban be executing girls for the crime of being raped? Didn't think so.Yes, that's exactly what I want. Don't strawman.

It's also dumb to talk about Iraq being safe at all when it's one of the clearest examples of a failed state in modern times. Even if the situation has improved it's still as much of a hellhole as it was under Saddam, only the state violence has been replaced with violence by competing factions.
The correlation is far from weak at best; much work is done on the subject. I'm too lazy to actually grab some articles though--plus, Man vs Food is on the Travel channel. Guilty pleasure.For every example you bring up I can find a counterexample. Long story short, capitalism doesn't inherently translate to democracy, at least in the short term. It's the other way around if anything. It's screwy thinking.
To not act is to act. If you do not act, and allow a group like the Khmer Rouge to come to power when it is within your power to prevent it, then you are almost as guilty as if you actively encouraged them.So you think your way of acting is the only way?

[Dave de Sylvia]

Dude a major part of the KD was to differentiate authoritarian regimes from totalitarian regimes.
Yes, that was also a failure.

[YDtoad]

Yes, that's exactly what I want. Don't strawman.

Well, that's your alternative. This is my central point. Inaction is an action. If you do not oppose then you support.


It's also dumb to talk about Iraq being safe at all when it's one of the clearest examples of a failed state in modern times. Even if the situation has improved it's still as much of a hellhole as it was under Saddam, only the state violence has been replaced with violence by competing factions.

You really should pay closer attention to the situation because you're very wrong on this front. You seem to be stuck in 2006. With the exceptions of a few areas, Iraq is basically every bit as safe as Iran.



For every example you bring up I can find a counterexample. Long story short, capitalism doesn't inherently translate to democracy, at least in the short term. It's the other way around if anything. It's screwy thinking.
So you think your way of acting is the only way?

Your examples will probably be China and...well, what else? But China isn't even really free enterprise yet. If it were free enterprise it would also be democratic.


So you think your way of acting is the only way?

What is my way and what is yours?

[Iskandar]

Well, that's your alternative. This is my central point. Inaction is an action. If you do not oppose then you support.I don't believe in inaction. Stop strawmanning me dammit.
You really should pay closer attention to the situation because you're very wrong on this front. You seem to be stuck in 2006. With the exceptions of a few areas, Iraq is basically every bit as safe as Iran.That's something to aspire to.
Your examples will probably be China and...well, what else? But China isn't even really free enterprise yet. If it were free enterprise it would also be democratic.Then why isn't Hong Kong freer than Norway?
What is my way and what is yours?What it basically boils down to is yours is hard power and mine is soft power (or to be more specific you're a neoconservative who believes in military force and I'm a liberal who believes in diplomacy/economic incentives etc.).

[1338 h4x0r]

Well, that's your alternative. This is my central point. Inaction is an action. If you do not oppose then you support.

Steve probably isn't doing anything actively to oppose child molestation, therefore he supports child molestation.

Steve definitely isn't doing anything actively to propagate the human race, therefore he is clearly in favor of letting it die out.


Your examples will probably be China and...well, what else? But China isn't even really free enterprise yet. If it were free enterprise it would also be democratic.


Chile. Pinochet.

[Iskandar]

That's just one example Chris. Look at East/Southeast Asia for plenty more.

[1338 h4x0r]

To invalidate a sweeping generalization like that, I only need one example.

Dawn was breaking. Daedalus sneered at his own creation as he ran out to its exhausted frame, which glinted in the first rays of the morning sun. Methodically, he pried its beams loose like ribs and found in the abundant scrap of its innards parts that passed for hammers and wedges, just as he had intended: "I imagined that tyrant Minos might betray me one day," he muttered to himself. Daedalus then beckoned his son to come out and help him and, as the sun rose, the two eagerly sapped the walls of the Labyrinth and wriggled out of the dirt and dim light into the radiance of the Mediterranean day. A light, steady breeze rippled in the grass and in their hair as they drank in, with all their senses, the vivid scenes of lovely Crete, and their renewed freedom to enjoy them.

Icarus, young as he was, recognized that their troubles were not over as soon as their liberty lost its novelty. "We have escaped the Labyrinth, but we can't hide from Minos forever. What now? To flee on water would be suicide."

Daedalus drew a deep breath of the fresh air, and it seemed to inspire him: "Wax. We need wax," he answered cryptically as they made their way home.

[Iskandar]

Post links, not paragraphs.

[1338 h4x0r]

I need to have multiple copies in case one server or my comp go down

My writing is awesome

[Iskandar]

This isn't your writing journal.

I'm going out but I'll respond to Steve's fallacious reasoning later.:) Grab some popcorn.

[YDtoad]

I don't believe in inaction. Stop strawmanning me dammit.
That's something to aspire to.
Then why isn't Hong Kong freer than Norway?
What it basically boils down to is yours is hard power and mine is soft power (or to be more specific you're a neoconservative who believes in military force and

[QUOTE]
I'm a liberal who believes in diplomacy/economic incentives etc.).

Ok, so place yourself in Nixon's shoes. You're helping the current Cambodian government against the Khmer Rouge. But you don't like them because they're not democratic. Do you cease supporting them and permit the Khmer Rouge to take control?

And of course, the Khmer Rouge really couldn't care less about sanctions, so your idea really wouldn't work.

PS Hong Kong would be freer than Norway were it not for the presence of a hegemon.

[1338 h4x0r]

You're raising an irrelevant point

capitalism does not imply democracy

duh

[Iskandar]

Respond to my other points, don't ignore them.
PS Hong Kong would be freer than Norway were it not for the presence of a hegemon.No it wouldn't. That's laughable. Norway has a very liberal culture; Hong Kong has robber baron capitalism. One does not translate to the other.

[Light Flantastic]

i dont think you've ever been to norway

[1338 h4x0r]

In Hong Kong, the market decides how much currency should be counterfeited

[pigletopeth]

why Hong Kong? why not some town in Somalia?

[Light Flantastic]

hong kong is probably the most economically free region in the world

why did he use it like that? idk i guess he's kinda stupid

[Iskandar]

Guys it's a proven fact that the more capitalistic a country is, the freer it will be; that's why the UAE is far more liberal than bastions of socialist tyranny like Denmark and Canada.

[pigletopeth]

Tokyo sounds better.

[Light Flantastic]

Guys it's a proven fact that the more capitalistic a country is, the freer it will be; that's why the UAE is far more liberal than bastions of socialist tyranny like Denmark and Canada.
you're just putting undue weight on social freedom because it suits you to do so

[Dave de Sylvia]

robber baron capitalism?

[Light Flantastic]

hong kong is anarchy

[Dave de Sylvia]

no it's robber baron capitalism didn't you read the post

[Light Flantastic]

its the same thing

[Dave de Sylvia]

no robber baron capitalism is faster

[McP3000]

iskandar youre starting to sound like a fear mongering collectivist.

wait a second

[Pop music sucks]

I need to have multiple copies in case one server or my comp go down

My writing is awesomeGet two USB flash drives, those are so cheap too, it's like $9 for a 4GB jump drive.

[Iskandar]

iskandar youre starting to sound like a fear mongering collectivist.

wait a secondNo I'm not.

[1338 h4x0r]

[18:45] Chris - 天网听起来是个好主意: lol
[18:45] Alex: wonder when Chad will realize he's on my ignore list
[18:46] Alex: I haven't been responding to him for a while

It's catching on

[Light Flantastic]

iskandar only did it because he got in trouble in the mod forum for rising to it

[Light Flantastic]

oh plus it kills him that he cant ban me

[Klown]

iskandar only did it because he got in trouble in the mod forum for rising to it

hm how interesting

[JohnXDoe3]

oh plus it kills him that he cant ban me
wat!

[Light Flantastic]

guys you are making iskandar upset stop quoting me

[ridethelib]

how can u not be banned?

[McP3000]

he's got skillz that killz

[sweboy]

how can u not be banned?

rule #1: you don't talk about chad club

[FattyKnee]

killz

[Iskandar]

The government does not belong in business, they can't even run the government much less a car manufacturer! Just one more step towards sociialism...anyone remember Lenin, Stalin and/or Hitler? Better read up on their history because the way things are going we are headed in the same direction! 2012 cannot get here fast enough! Sarah Palin 2012!

[McP3000]

oh iskandar

your opinions are so cute

[Iskandar]

I only wish I'd wrote that instead of a real person.

[Already_Taken]

hitler founded volkswagen and also started the tradition of the running and lighting of the olympic torch. what a guy.

[McP3000]

lol that was copypasta iskandear

[Iskandar]

What, did you think I wrote that?

[ridethelib]

Who else would have

[Mr. Ron]

The government does not belong in business, they can't even run the government much less a car manufacturer! Just one more step towards sociialism...anyone remember Lenin, Stalin and/or Hitler? Better read up on their history because the way things are going we are headed in the same direction! 2012 cannot get here fast enough! Sarah Palin 2012!
I'm glad we agree!

[Iskandar]

Ron you silly you know the government belongs in business. It's just a question of to what degree.

[Aaron]

Bachelor's degree.

[McP3000]

7/10

[Mr. Ron]

One thing is for sure, I will no longer be a bachelor for much longer B]

[Iskandar]

Bachelor's degree.Master's.

[Mr. Ron]

I hafta' 2 git wonaa' doz!

[McP3000]

One thing is for sure, I will no longer be a bachelor for much longer B]
you pullin some tail right now ron?

[Aaron]

Master's.
I'll see your Master's and raise you a Doctorate!

[Iskandar]

Jedi Master.

[Mr. Ron]

you pullin some tail right now ron?
I have a prospect in the works....my game will need to be on full blast for this one though, she's a feisty one.

[Aaron]

Jedi Master.
At this point I'm all in so the pot will have to be split.
If you win, you get Anakin and a degree.
If I win, I get the degree but you keep the boy.

[Iskandar]

I too have a female who wants to jump my bones.

I'm toying with the prospect.
At this point I'm all in so the pot will have to be split.
If you win, you get Anakin and a degree.
If I win, I get the degree but you keep the boy.I use the Force to rig the results. Sweet.

[Mr. Ron]

I thought you already had a lady Alex?

[Iskandar]

I thought you already had a lady Alex?Broke up a few months ago.

[Mr. Ron]

Broke up a few months ago.
I see. Well, you're a free man now, be the alpha male and feed upon the unsuspecting flocks of women. MWAHAHA-MWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Iskandar]

That's what I'm doing.

[McP3000]

I have a prospect in the works....my game will need to be on full blast for this one though, she's a feisty one.
yeah i had a prospect until the same day i broke my wrist

such a shitty day

[Mr. Ron]

yeah i had a prospect until the same day i broke my wrist

such a poopty day
Why did that stop you?

[Pop music sucks]

Hey, aren't Jedi supposed to not have emotional attachments?

[Mr. Ron]

Alex is slowly ascending to the ranks of the Sith.

[McP3000]

Why did that stop you?
no it wasnt relevant to her. She broke it off with me

and then she saw my fbook status later that day and felt bad

[Mr. Ron]

eff dat ho bro

[Iskandar]

Hey, aren't Jedi supposed to not have emotional attachments?This is the New Jedi Order.

(Which I didn't really like but whatever.)

[McP3000]

okay darth revan

[Mr. Ron]

Alex just admit that the Sith are cooler. We have cake.

[Pop music sucks]

There's only two choices though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVjKlBCvhg

[Iskandar]

Alex just admit that the Sith are cooler. We have cake.No, I want a green lightsaber.
okay darth revan
What.

[Aaron]

I'm on the side of whoever is trying to kill Jar Jar Binks.

[Iskandar]

Everyone?

[Aaron]

Jesus' side!

[Mr. Ron]

Jesus was a wimp

[Iskandar]

Jesus was a Jedi.

http://b5.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01552/58/23/1552463285_s.jpg

[Mr. Ron]

Exactly, he was a wimp.

[Iskandar]

Jedi are not wimps.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2382/ks65555xo5.gif

"You're under arrest, Chancellor."

[Mr. Ron]

Mace got owned

[ridethelib]

So did the jedi children

[McP3000]

Jesus was a Jedi.

http://b5.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01552/58/23/1552463285_s.jpg
if one of Jesus's miracles was to wield a lightsaber

would you turn christian?

[Mr. Ron]

So did the jedi children


I sort of chuckled when that scene commenced.

[Iskandar]

Mace got ownedBut first he owned Palpatine.

"You are under arrest, my Lord."
if one of Jesus's miracles was to wield a lightsaber

would you turn christian?Hell yes.
I sort of chuckled when that scene commenced.Do you find the slaughter of little Scottish Jedi kids amusing?

I sure do.

[Mr. Ron]

Alex, one day we shall meet on the field of battle to determine which side is superior....

[Pop music sucks]

I'd say Jedi.

Unless, you know, it's the Legacy of the Force and the Order gets all sorts of haywire.

[McP3000]

okay lets stop the book talk right now before it gets outta hand

[Aaron]

To be honest, in the last census I was one of the people who got Jedi entered into the ABS's statistics as a recognised religion.

[Pop music sucks]

You are a hero to Alex.

[Aaron]

It was pretty cool; for them to recognise the votes as a statistical grouping it had to be 75,000 put it down.

[McP3000]

thats retarded you need to be selected to become a jedi. you cant choose to be one.

[Iskandar]

Alex, one day we shall meet on the field of battle to determine which side is superior....I shall best you with my mastery of the ancient art of Makashi, the second form of lightsaber combat.

[McP3000]

just swing wildly and cut his *** in two

[Mr. Ron]

I hope you're ready for Harsh Language.

[Light Flantastic]

you guys are such nerdy disgraces

[rasputin]

thats retarded you need to be selected to become a jedi. you cant choose to be one
haha

[ridethelib]

you guys are such nerdy disgraces

and spending your time writing programs to hack a dying forum isn't nerdy oh right

[Radiobass81]

If anyone wants to read a brief summery (in Spanish) of how the new government in Puerto Rico is golding up... :p

Bajo la campaña del PNP en las pasadas elecciones, se prometió no despedir ("al único que voy a botar es a Aníbal). Se prometió no hacer a la clase media gastar más dinero por culpa del gobierno. Se prometió reducir la cantidad de legisladores.

Claro, llevan 5 meses, así que me pudieras argumentar que la legislación para modificar la legislatura puede venir luego, pero ya se ha visto cómo este nuevo gobierno le ha mentido al pueblo, despidiendo a empleados públicos sin razón, añadiendo tarifas a los cigarrillos, los vinos, las motoras, etc., y la legislatura continúa ganando más de 80mil... más bonos!

Y para aclarar lo de los bonos, cada vez que Fortuño dice que eliminó los bonos, es falso. Al principio del año el sugirió a las varias organizaciones gubernamentales a rechazar la dieta de carros y otras, pero la mayoría nunca se acogieron a esta sugerencia. La legislatura, menos.

Respecto a los despidos, caemos en lo mismo que ha pasado en las administraciones anteriores: se quiere que el pueblo pague por una crisis creada por el gobierno. Me pueden argumentar que el gobierno está muy grande (que es totalmente relativo, hay varios países como lo son Singapur, Nueva Zelanda e Irlanda con nuestra misma población y un gobierno de un tamaño similar) y que se tiene que bajar la nómina, pero se vuelve al tema que la crisis NO la creó el pueblo. Sí se ha dicho que ésta es la última alternativa, pero no lo es. Se puede empezar con los que empezaron la crisis, como los legisladores, y eliminarles las dieta. Pero no debe terminar ahí. Se les ha congelado los salarios, pero siguen siendo más del doble que el puertorriqueño promedio (se dice que gana al rededor de 20,000), MUCHO más. No sólo eso, pero el PNP, que tiene mayoría absoluta y se supone que puede hacer esto sin problema, puede cumplir con una de sus promesas de campaña y reducir la legislatura.

A pesar de esto, discurso tras discurso, Fortuño ha hablado de cómo quiere manejar al déficit "desde adentro", diciendo cómo va a reducir el gasto. Hay algo imprescindible que no ha mencionado: cómo el gobierno piensa crear dinero? Él no ha hablado de la infraestructura económica en cuestiones de manufactura, de servicios, de agricultura, de nada. No dice de dónde piensa realmente sacar a Puerto Rico de la crisis, porque para salir de ella no es sólo bajar los gastos del gobierno, es subir el dinero producido aquí.

Otro problema grande es el de las contribuciones. Una promesa de campaña de el PNP y del PPD prometieron cambiar la manera que se hace, ya que por evasiones (que son legales, que conste) se nos hace creer que sólo 25,000 personas en Puerto Rico ganan más de 100,000. De la misma manera, se ha llegado al punto que un pasado secretario de Hacienda se le salió el comentario de que las contribuciones en Puerto Rico son casi por voluntad, no obligatorias. Igual, a las compañías apenas se les cobra impuestos por contribuciones, la mayoría pagan un 0% o algo similar. Se puede decir "si se les cobra, se nos irán", pero eso es falso, porque según una ley estadosunidense, las compañías pueden descontar ese gasto de su planilla y lo pagaría el mismo gobierno estadosunidense, de tal manera que la compañía no pierde un centavo.

Ni se tiene que hablar de los recortes que el gobierno le está haciendo a las instituciones que tocan las artes o la cultura (Instituto de cultura puertorriqueña, Escuela de artes plásticas, Conservatorio de música, Centro de bellas artes, etc.) y el recorte de 330mill a la UPR. Si no fuera por el dinero que los EEUU están mandando (un gobierno que apoya la intervención y algo cual el mismo Fortuño en sus principios está en contra) no se sabría qué hacer. Los recortes estaban tan drásticos e innecesarios que EEUU tuvo que poner el dinero. Los que dicen que las artes no son importantes, preguntesen ustedes mismos qué pasará con estos estudiantes? En un lugar sin trabajo, con apenas oportunidades de estudios, parece que hay dos soluciones: o fugarse, o el crimen. Una de éstas requiere un poco de economía para hacer. Y aunque todos se fueran, no importa; esto es un ataque a la cultura puertorriqueña (desde sus inicios el PNP ha estado en contra de instituciones como la ICP) y demuestra la poca sensibilidad que tiene el nuevo gobierno, que ni las artes aprecia..

Estamos bajo un gobierno antidemocrático, por muchas razones. Antidemocrático porque quiere hacer caso omiso del plebiscito de la unicameralidad. Lo menos que puede hacer, es hacer un plebiscito "oficial" (ya que el PNP no vio el otro como oficial, aunque los otros 3 partidos tenían ya la unicameralidad bajo sus plataformas). Antidemocrático porque el pueblo está en contra de los despidos masivos, sabiendo que hay otras opciones, aunque sí se ha dicho que si ésta fuera la última opción, se discutirá. Antidemocrático por la aprobación de la Ley 7 y de las APP, del cambio en la aprobación de los contratos gubernamentales, algo que el pueblo consistentemente ha luchado para que no se apruebe. Antidemocrático por la falta de dialogo con otros sectores. Más que nada, antidemocrático por la TOTAL indiferencia que ha presentado a la voluntad del pueblo. Comentarios como "ellos no votaron por mi" (referencia a los obreros y sus movimientos para combatir el gobierno) son ejemplo perfecto de lo que está pasando.

Ni la busqueda de la estadidad es consistente, ya que el plan que Pierluisi impulsó se sabía que no iba a durar por no tener a todas las áreas del sector político/social de acuerdos con él, y ahora el tratar de sacar a Puerto Rico de un plan que reescribe cómo se van a tratar las posturas económicas de los países extranjeros es muestra de. Aunque esto es otro tema, esto también demuestra primero cómo la estadidad no es favorable para Puerto Rico ya que los beneficios que se tienen ahora se nos quitarán, como los que están en juego con este plan que hasta Fortuño y Pierluisi están en contra, diciendo que la estadidad es algo a largo plazo, y de la misma manera se presenta la fragilidad del ELA en estos momentos, que en cualquier momento con una bobera de un congresista puede caer en cantos.

¿Qué bueno se le puede sacar al nuevo gobierno? Apenas algunos buenos nombramientos. Pero los malos sí que son malos: es IRRISORIO el nombramiento de Chardón, una figura tán polémica cuando trabajó bajo Romero Barceló. Junto a él, muchos otros. Se le ha impuesto una contribución de 2% (si no me equivoco) a las compañías, pero no sólo esto es insuficiente, sino que de colmo es temporero y en dos años volverán a pagar apenas.

Que conste que esto no es un mensaje partidista; yo no estoy afiliado a ningún partido, dentro del mensaje me he referido a posibles soluciones DENTRO DE LOS MISMOS PLANES DEL PNP DE LA CAMPAÑA y sé que este problema viene de antes (pero mucho antes de Aníbal, gente, abran sus ojos. Ni el déficit extra-constitucional de Rosselló empezó esto, aunque lo agravió como ni se puede imaginar).

Argumenten lo que quieran. Creo que se me quedo algo en mencionar, pero después lo escribo.

[Light Flantastic]

and spending your time writing programs to hack a dying forum isn't nerdy oh right

writing programs isnt really involved that much but i can see someone is upset

[Iskandar]

I'd be more interesting if you could translate.

[cmb1888]

I'd be more interesting if you could translate.

Would you?

[Iskandar]

Um I don't know Spanish.

[Mr. Ron]

I would likeo to ordero a burrito

[TerranYouApart]

¿Qué bueno se le puede sacar al nuevo gobierno?

What good will they be able to take from the new government?

[cmb1888]

I'd be more interesting if you could translate.

It's even less funny when I have to explain

[Mr. Ron]

Papers, please.

[McP3000]

this is pnwi, not taco bell

be mature people

[TerranYouApart]

It's even less funny when I have to explain

lol that is a hilarious typo

[cmb1888]

yeah - chortle chortle

[Light Flantastic]

this is pnwi, not taco bell

be mature people
hmm

[McP3000]

poopsicles

[ridethelib]

cumpops

[Iskandar]

It's even less funny when I have to explainEven the best of us make mistakes.

[cmb1888]

it was a cheap shot - sorry

bedtime

[McP3000]

good night sweet prince

[Mr. Ron]

Aww that was cute

[cmb1888]

oh for pity's sake!

[McP3000]

its past your bedtime missy

[cmb1888]

you're not the boss of me!

showertime

[gregulus]

thanks for keeping us updated on what you do in between posts, cmb1888. it is very interesting.

[cmb1888]

Well the shower thing was obviously a joke but I hadn't really realised I did this. I will expunge this sort of information from my posts before I start telling everyone when I put the bin out.

Right - must go paint my nails.

[Iskandar]

It wasn't obvious.

I just took a shower and I'm going for a haircut at 3. I'll keep you all updated on the day to day life of Iskandar whether you like it or not.

[Light Flantastic]

Right - must go paint my nails.

thats really tacky

[cmb1888]

Not if you let the varnish dry properly

[Light Flantastic]

no it still is

[mph4ever]

this reads like twitter

[gregulus]

It wasn't obvious.

I just took a shower and I'm going for a haircut at 3. I'll keep you all updated on the day to day life of Iskandar whether you like it or not.

Oh yes. I'm going to be refreshing this page all night.

[Light Flantastic]

whats twitter guys

[Mr. Ron]

aka facebook

[Pop music sucks]

it's like facespace or mybook

[gregulus]

it's like facespace or mybook

Except even more truncated. Social networking is hilarious.

[Pop music sucks]

It's a Twit for Twat.

[Iskandar]

Oh yes. I'm going to be refreshing this page all night.I got back from my haircut. I rode my bike and bought a soda. Now I'm home. I'm considering eating something.

[mph4ever]

thats facebookish

twitter is where gobshites choose to follow other gobshites and the like

[Dave de Sylvia]

he knows what twitter is

[Mr. Ron]

lol

[Pop music sucks]

Ronsy could I twat your twit:naughty:

[gregulus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvunbIWNyI

Pretty good video where Shepard Smith comments on how crazy some of the people who watch Fox News are.

This is another good one about how a lot of people laughed at and even got very upset that the Obama administration released a report stating a concern over a potential rise in right-wing extremist groups and ends with another Shepard Smith quote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL7iY5uarA8



While there's only been two examples of this the past few weeks, it seems the report may have been grounded in some truth.

[Iskandar]

he knows what twitter isI know enough to want to avoid it like the plague.

[Pop music sucks]

I wish they'd make another X-Wing VS. TIE Fighter game. That game was really ahead of its time. There's more market for online combat now.

[Iskandar]

I had that when I was like ten.

[Mr. Ron]

Ronsy could I twat your twit:naughty:
You have to bring me on a date first, I'm a classy girl.

[Pop music sucks]

So did I. I could only play the single player game when it came out. But think of the technology now and how intense it could be!

You have to bring me on a date first, I'm a classy girl.Alright how about a picnic on the local hillside overlooking the river. The sunset is serene and the cool summer air is soothing as the touch of my fingers upon your dainty shoulder.

[Iskandar]

Classy girls don't give up the enchilada on the first date.

They do after the first date on the car ride home.

[gregulus]

Classy girls don't give up the enchilada on the first date.

They do after the first date on the car ride home.

Since when is the date over when you're still with her? What the hell kind of time scale are you using?

[Mr. Ron]

Good thing I'm into dudes.

[Iskandar]

Since when is the date over when you're still with her? What the hell kind of time scale are you using?I don't know but I know yours is wrong.

[Mr. Ron]

Body language is more important that the actual words you use.

[Light Flantastic]

since when do people still 'date'

they dont

[Pop music sucks]

I speak mime does that count?

[Iskandar]

They prefer to call it sign language.

Well, they don't call it anything if they're mute as well as deaf.

[gregulus]

I've always been curious in regards to the "they should take responsibility for their actions" argument against abortion, why having an abortion isn't considered taking responsibility for one's actions.

[gregulus]

I don't know but I know yours is wrong.

I mean, it makes sense that if you're still with someone then the date is going on.

Is this some Canadian thing?

[Light Flantastic]

I've always been curious in regards to the "they should take responsibility for their actions" argument against abortion, why having an abortion isn't considered taking responsibility for one's actions.

because its cheating gods punishment for sex

[gregulus]

during the clinton era, between 1994-2000 there were 6 abortion providers and clinic staff murdered, and 17 attempted murders of abortion providers. There were 12 bombings or arsons during the clinton years.

During the bush administration, not only were there no murders, there were no attempted murders. There was one clinic bombing during the bush years.

One can only conclude that like terrorist sleeper cells, these extremists have now been set in motion. Indeed the evidence is already there. The chatter, the threats, the hate-filled rhetoric are abundant.

In the last year of the bush administration there were 396 harassing calls to abortion clinics. In just the first four months of the obama administration that number has jumped to 1401.

america! **** yeah!

[gregulus]

because its cheating gods punishment for sex

God is such a prick.

[Mr. Ron]

god? what is that?

[gregulus]

god? what is that?

he's like hitler, osama, genghis, attila, pol-pot, nero, vlad tepes, ivan the terrible and stalin combined. except worse.

[Mr. Ron]

Sounds like a guy i'd like to have a beer with. Interesting conversation would ensue.

[Light Flantastic]

Sounds like a guy i'd like to have a beer with.you should vote for him as president

[Mr. Ron]

haha

Now if they like to BBQ as well, then man, I'd no choice but to vote for them regardless of their views.

[mph4ever]

he's like hitler, osama, genghis, attila, pol-pot, nero, vlad tepes, ivan the terrible and stalin combined. except worse.


you left out jesus and abraham and that slimebag georgie bush

[gregulus]

haha

Now if they like to BBQ as well, then man, I'd no choice but to vote for them regardless of their views.

hey, you sound like the majority of people in america.

[Mr. Ron]

hey, you sound like the majority of people in america.
I love America, but only some of it's people. I'd suspect it is no different in any other country.

[gregulus]

I love America, but only some of it's people. I'd suspect it is no different in any other country.

perhaps not, but i hope that they're at least more interesting in other places.

[Mr. Ron]

Oh trust me, there's no shortage of "interesting" people in America.

[Iskandar]

I mean, it makes sense that if you're still with someone then the date is going on.

Is this some Canadian thing?When you're giving them a ride home, I'd say it's over.

And then you can ****.
america! **** yeah!The funny thing is that Bush didn't actually change the abortion laws in any fundamental way, nor will Obama.

[Light Flantastic]

bush didnt deregulate the economy either but try telling that to them libruls

[mph4ever]

When you're giving them a ride home, I'd say it's over.

And then you can ****.


so thats two rides you can have with them

[Iskandar]

so thats two rides you can have with themThat's the idea.

[mph4ever]

sweet

[gregulus]

When you're giving them a ride home, I'd say it's over.

And then you can ****.
ohhhhh girl.
The funny thing is that Bush didn't actually change the abortion laws in any fundamental way, nor will Obama.

I know. That's what I don't get.

[Iskandar]

Because Obama is takin' arr gunz 'n' freedumbz

[Mr. Ron]

no but he's certainly putting us farther in debt

[Light Flantastic]

what do you mean no

he's doing both

or at least he wants to do both

[mph4ever]

i wonder has he been banging michelle lately

[gregulus]

Ron, is that nerdy librarian girl you posted in the "favorite body parts" thread of age?

[Iskandar]

no but he's certainly putting us farther in debtAt this point that's kind of like pissing in the ocean, but yeah, technically he is.

He could probably balance the budget if he really wanted to by the end of his term.
i wonder has he been banging michelle latelyIt's the most stressful job in the world. I'd be hitting that **** at least nightly.

[Radiobass81]

Anyone have a Keynes book in PDF or Word they could send me?

[Mr. Ron]

Ron, is that nerdy librarian girl you posted in the "favorite body parts" thread of age?
I don't know her, she's my friend's freind.

[pedro durruti]

I am writing buddhist/anarchist/humanist propaganda on all of my dollar bills. ALSO poems and moustaches on the fancymen :)

moostache
they need a moustache smiley on here

[Iskandar]

Wow, what a waste of time.

[Pop music sucks]

Nah maaaaan he's spreading the worrrrrrrrrrrd

maaaaaaaaaan

ffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Dave de Sylvia]

Normally I am in favour of anything that is needlessly irritating for other people, but that's not even funny. It's just time-consuming.

[Iskandar]

Anarchism is dumb too.

[pedro durruti]

what's time consuming?

[pedro durruti]

Anarchism is dumb too.
hahaha youre such a troll

[Dave de Sylvia]

what's time consuming?
Writing things that don't make sense on money. I mean you could argue that "In God We Trust" is just as monumentally pointless (and you'd be right), but still.

[cmb1888]

morning! what a lovely day

[Iskandar]

hahaha youre such a trollI'm stating my honest opinion. I think anarchism is dumb. I think lots of ideologies are dumb, actually.

[Pop music sucks]

Writing all that **** on dollar bills that no one's going to take seriously.

[Iskandar]

If it's anything like his unrestrained ranting in that thread I just deleted, nobody's going to read it either.

[pedro durruti]

Writing things that don't make sense on money. I mean you could argue that "In God We Trust" is just as monumentally pointless (and you'd be right), but still.
You'd be ignoring the thousands, millions of people who actually do take that phrase seriously... like right-wing America. I live in a progressive and pretty liberal, leftist area, and there are a lot of patriotic buffoons around here who say things like that seriously, and do a lot of other things too, seriously and sincerely. And there's another even larger group of people who are prone to open-mindedness but reside in apathy half the time who just like every single other human being are impressionable every single moment of their lives and however miniscually can be affected by a single word. Because every single word if not carrying an emotion or a feeling or even a thought carries at least a sensation, and if not a sensation a surge of electricity. This is a simple application of chaos theory, which can be a fairly valid theory. Life isn't made up of anything else other than the smaller moments and the larger moments that follow and are utterly and completely influenced by it. And besides, I'm not writing anything that is insensible. Even a misunderstanding has utility anyways. It will pass through thousands of hands because it's money. And for the people that look at it and read it that means thousands of eyes, and thousands of other things that may or may not follow. Ideas and seeds are the same thing. And that's exactly what I'm doing. Now all I have to do is make more money so I can actually do this. MOOHOOHAHA!
I'm stating my honest opinion. I think anarchism is dumb. I think lots of ideologies are dumb, actually.
Yeah, having an ideology is dumb, but an ideology and the ideas that contribute to it aren't the same thing.
If it's anything like his unrestrained ranting in that thread I just deleted, nobody's going to read it either.
You don't have any compassion, what's wrong with you these days? I don't care how much you like me, because it mostly has no bearing on me at all, but it seems you're just bitterly holding a grudge, and irresponsibly as a poor mod.

Then what about humanism, what do you think about that? Which, in fact, is related to anarchism and could just as easily fall under it as it could fall under humanism.

[Light Flantastic]

Writing all that **** on dollar bills that no one's going to take seriously.

well you dont know what he wrote

it could cause instant enlightenment


You'd be ignoring the thousands, millions of people who actually do take that phrase seriously... like right-wing America.i dont think it has anything to do with it being on the money

and why must people keep using retarded definitions of left and right

[pedro durruti]

i dont think it has anything to do with it being on the money

and why must people keep using retarded definitions of left and right
I dont know what you're arguing to.

What do you mean? I'm putting a classification on a group of people because of the massive behavioral trends that have a right-wing orientation, the way right-wing is generally understood.. did I even give a definition?

[TerranYouApart]

no he's saying he's such an individual and soooo original that we need to stop using these broad terms because he doesn't fall in either one of them.

just like most of the rest of the population, dude.

they're general and consistent trends in behavior and ethical values, how is that so hard to understand??? god damnit you aren't special.

[pedro durruti]

good god i can't take any of you seriously. i'm talking to a ****ing scv.

[Light Flantastic]

im saying left and right dont even mean anything apart from maybe in economic policy and that doesnt have anything to do with religion or partiotism or whatever retarded clichés are prevalent in the american public

[Dave de Sylvia]

You'd be ignoring the thousands, millions of people who actually do take that phrase seriously...
Yeah, that's sort of the point.

[pedro durruti]

im saying left and right dont even mean anything apart from maybe in economic policy and that doesnt have anything to do with religion or partiotism or whatever retarded clichés are prevalent in the american public
well i've always thought in the authoritarian/libertarian social spectrum and it's still in pretty common usage to talk about politics this way. yeah the political spectrum is more dimensional than that. but you could also figure economic policy into a social left and right spectrum, i mean some economics are more authoritarian than others
Yeah, that's sort of the point.
wait, what's the point?

[TerranYouApart]

that people are ignored.

some people get upset over semantics, while others would rather discuss subjects in a practical concise manner.