PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[Pop music sucks]

Partially a sense of trying to vindicate myself that those five years weren't wasted by wishful conjecture and partially the enjoyment of rising above the ground. Alaska's scenery is beautiful to behold from the heights of bird in flight.

I seek refuge because there's a dichotomous groupage here. You are either put into the party group or the nerdy group. There are varying levels of either, but I do not, and will not drink. My nerdy pursuits are more for the experience of a group setting in something that's more comfortable. I prefer settings of a small, tigher group than a big, loud, gaping, loose hole.

[Iskandar]

I prefer settings of a small, tigher group than a big, loud, gaping, loose hole.Too much information.

[Pop music sucks]

Tight fits right but wide open means it's broken

[Iskandar]

By the way, talking like this:
I seek refuge because there's a dichotomous groupage here.
must get you a lot of chicks.

[Aaron]

I'm sure that when he said that, it was drafted on parchment with a quill.

[guitarded_chuck]

**** essays. Take science.

[beso negro]

I had to do an essay that was over 9000 pages long

i would die if i had to write more than 100 pages

[StreetlightRock]

Thesis next year woohoo.... =/

[beso negro]

**** essays. Take science.

not entirely true. I wrote a 5 pages paper on variance reduction techniques earlier this semester and I just finished a 10 page report for my undergraduate research

[Mr. Ron]

gahhhh got a bad chest cough. :[

you think tea would help?

[1338 h4x0r]

I think the ZOG is responsible, you'd better hire the nearest ZOG exterminator for an inspection of your house

[Mr. Ron]

I knew I shouldn't have dated that half Jewish girl. I've been afflicted with a gypsy curse!

[guitarded_chuck]

not entirely true. I wrote a 5 pages paper on variance reduction techniques earlier this semester and I just finished a 10 page report for my undergraduate research

I still have to write the odd paper, but generally don't have to write nearly as much as my friends in liberal arts. I did a 12 page one last semester but that was the longest paper by far of the year for me.

[Mr. Ron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_OnP4JKi08

[guitarded_chuck]

"ayem confoosed :("

[Iskandar]

gahhhh got a bad chest cough. :[

you think tea would help?Yes, herbal tea with lemon and honey.

I'm serious.

[Mr. Ron]

Are you serious?

[Iskandar]

Yes!

[Mr. Ron]

On a scale of super rad to outrageously rad, how seriously rad are you?

[ridethelib]

Mr. Ron is congested in the lungotorium.

[Iskandar]

On a scale of super rad to outrageously rad, how seriously rad are you?All of the above.

[Mr. Ron]

I see. Well, this is a great day for the radness scale.

[YDtoad]

Yes, herbal tea with lemon and honey.

I'm serious.

ooo, I just had red tea with honey and cinnamon today, good stuff.

[StreetlightRock]

lemon and honey tea ****ing rules

[Iskandar]

ooo, I just had red tea with honey and cinnamon today, good stuff.Thought you didn't like tea.

[YDtoad]

Thought you didn't like tea.

No I drink a lot of tea.

[Iskandar]

I remember when you didn't. How times change.

I like tea a lot and I was just drinking some green tea.

[ridethelib]

I'm hankering for a cup of my chai rooibos.

[Iskandar]

chai rooibosDoes not compute.

[ridethelib]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518M-B1CHsL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-6,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg

Pretty sure it's just spiced rooibos.

[Iskandar]

Okay but rooibos and chai are two completely different drinks.

[ridethelib]

I know this I'm just regurgitating what I was told by the box I don't need you getting all tea-snob on me now

[Iskandar]

I know this I'm just regurgitating what I was told by the box I don't need you getting all tea-snob on me nowToo late.

[Aaron]

I'm currently drinking a turkish apple tisane.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm drinking arizona iced tea


thats right, ****ing deal with it

[Aaron]

I know this I'm just regurgitating what I was told by the box I don't need you getting all tea-snob on me now
Rooibos isn't a tea.

[ridethelib]

ewww arizona


same goes to you Aaron I'm not tryin' to have y'all get all steeped-beverage elitist on me here

[Mr. Ron]

Arizona lemon tea is delicious

[Mr. Ron]

oh and happy birthday Chris

[Aaron]

ewww arizona


same goes to you Aaron I'm not tryin' to have y'all get all steeped-beverage elitist on me here
Tea is made from tea leaves. If it ain't got tea leaves in it, it ain't tea.
Fair enough. Enjoy your liquid refreshment.

[ridethelib]

I think to be fair though tea is kind of a misnomer for anything involving herbs/leaves a steeping bag and hot water

[Iskandar]

I think to be fair though tea is kind of a misnomer for anything involving herbs/leaves a steeping bag and hot waterIt's a misnomer to call anything tea that isn't.

[Aaron]

Word.

[Ando!]

****ing ****s deleting my ****ing posts

[Iskandar]

Stop making crappy posts and I won't.

[Ando!]

empirical data for my crappy posting plz

[Aaron]

I've got anecdotal evidence. Doing population-based statistics is hard, but more accurate than sample-based, so be patient.

[Ando!]

ok i will be awaiting your peer-reviewed articles on the matter

[Aaron]

I'll make sure references are set out in the Harvard style [Author, Date].

[Light Flantastic]

an example of someone who needs banned a lot more

[McP3000]

dont talk about yourself like that, its not good for your self esteem

[Pop music sucks]

By the way, talking like this:

must get you a lot of chicks.I don't use an extreme amount of polysyllabic words when I am in the real life. Neither do I continuously speak of nerd-related things. I tend to reciprocate discussions. If there is a subject that is getting discussed and I have something to add, I will add. If the then-discussionary topic is "Dungeons/Dragons" I'll add something if I could. If it's about "the economy" I will add my thoughts to it.

As for getting chicks, I would rather have a longer-term relationship than a one-nighter, or physical relationship.

So I've been given the pre-solo and pre-cross country tests. Once I pass those I can now venture into Solo Flights and Cross-Country flights. It is the halfway point of getting my pilot's license:)

[guitarded_chuck]

So I'm pretty stoked. My province (Nova Scotia) had has the Conservatives in power at least 80% of time since the 1950's, with the Liberal party in power the rest of the time. There is an election going on scheduled to take place early June, and the polls are showing an NDP majority. (NDP is a moderate social democratic party). This is a huge and historic change for the province and I'm super stoked at the direction the province's politics is going.

Just ranting a bit, won't really make much sense to anyone who isn't Canadian anyway. Moving on

[Light Flantastic]

so you're going to get a party with a different name but basically the same stances

cool

[guitarded_chuck]

so you're going to get a party with a different name but basically the same stances

cool

The Conservatives and the NDP have the same stances? lol

[Iskandar]

Lol yeah they really don't.

And that's good news. I'm an NDP supporter myself.

[Light Flantastic]

they pretty much do conform to the same political notions, just because they have select issues that they choose to promote that are different doesnt mean that there would be a huge difference between the two in reality

i mean both want to steal your money in order to fund their goals omg tax argument go

[Iskandar]

If that's the only argument you have.

Since it's what every government does.

But conflating their goals because they're both funded by taxes is pretty damned stupid when their goals are completely different.

[Light Flantastic]

thats like saying two muggers are different because they have contrasting (but, equally selfish) motives

they're both still criminals that adhere to the same principles thats the defining part of them

[guitarded_chuck]

The 3 main Canadian parties are pretty moderate, but still have some major differences. And the NDP and Conservatives definitely differ the most.

Are you American? If so (and if not rly) would you say the Republicans and Democrats have essentially the same policies and ideologies and just have different names?

[Iskandar]

Really transparent way to suggest political parties are criminals.
Are you American? If so (and if not rly) would you say the Republicans and Democrats have essentially the same policies and ideologies and just have different names?No he's from the UK where New Labour and the Conservatives do.

[gregulus]

Now he's controlling fleet average gallons per mile...Get out of our buisiness. I've gotten an education so YOU can stop micromanaging our lives...FASCISM HERE WE COME!!
That was one of my facebook friend's latest status update.

I don't understand.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm all for small government, however comparing what Obama is doing to other Fascist dictators or their policies shows a gross misunderstanding of history.

[JohnXDoe3]

arrggh!

california voters piss me off!

its funny as most don't want to cut spending to the poor, disabled, mentally ill, public schools, etc...and then they shoot down ballot measures yesterday which would fund those things to a certain degree

i understand voters want the state to "work the budget out." trouble is the way they will choose to work it out. and of course conservatives are using this as a political football for their "small government" BS that only benefits the wealthy for the most part. people are stupid

i do pretty well for myself. i have no gripes. if they want to cut certain medical benefits in my state...ok. including making cuts in benefits to immigrants / illegal immigrants. but cutting OUT dental benefits, audiology, optometry, psych benefits, benefits for the developmental disabled, in home care for the old, and public education and associated programs for CITIZENS is not where most want it done. its funny...polls say most people want these things funded....and then voters go and tell the state to make cuts to these things

lots of exit polls seem to indicate they want the state to cut elsewhere....but you can bet thats where the cuts are going. and to law enforcement, too

Cali sucks atm

[VTK]

I'm all for small government, however comparing what Obama is doing to other Fascist dictators or their policies shows a gross misunderstanding of history.

This.

"omg obama's intervening on the economy just liek stalin did ffffff" is just common Republican rhetoric, they can't seem to find a lot of better ways to vent their frustration...

...You know what? Any opposition nowadays like to compare the ruling government to either Fascists or pseudo-Communists. It's just what partisans do when their party isn't in power.

[YDtoad]

I'm all for small government, however comparing what Obama is doing to other Fascist dictators or their policies shows a gross misunderstanding of history.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Most people who compare Obama to Hitler just don't know history well enough to think of a foreign dictator besides Hitler or Stalin. FWIW I'd say that the dictator whose policies and personality Obama's most resemble is Juan Peron. Big government spending, not extreme foreign policy, big on infrastructure spending as a way to stimulate the economy, hostile to trade (Obama's toned this down some), pro-labor, wife, etc.

[1338 h4x0r]

sup YDchode

[Ando!]

arrggh!

california voters piss me off!

its funny as most don't want to cut spending to the poor, disabled, mentally ill, public schools, etc...and then they shoot down ballot measures yesterday which would fund those things to a certain degree

i understand voters want the state to "work the budget out." trouble is the way they will choose to work it out. and of course conservatives are using this as a political football for their "small government" BS that only benefits the wealthy for the most part. people are stupid

i do pretty well for myself. i have no gripes. if they want to cut certain medical benefits in my state...ok. including making cuts in benefits to immigrants / illegal immigrants. but cutting OUT dental benefits, audiology, optometry, psych benefits, benefits for the developmental disabled, in home care for the old, and public education and associated programs for CITIZENS is not where most want it done. its funny...polls say most people want these things funded....and then voters go and tell the state to make cuts to these things

lots of exit polls seem to indicate they want the state to cut elsewhere....but you can bet thats where the cuts are going. and to law enforcement, too

Cali sucks atm

i actually worked on my ward's election board this year, PA didn't have any referendum issues to vote on though (it rarely does). Instead we just voted for a bunch of unqualified local politicians and randomly picked judges, kind of a mess all the way around

[Iskandar]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Most people who compare Obama to Hitler just don't know history well enough to think of a foreign dictator besides Hitler or Stalin. FWIW I'd say that the dictator whose policies and personality Obama's most resemble is Juan Peron. Big government spending, not extreme foreign policy, big on infrastructure spending as a way to stimulate the economy, hostile to trade (Obama's toned this down some), pro-labor, wife, etc.Probably closer than most, but comparing him to a dictator is still inane.

[YDtoad]

Probably closer than most, but comparing him to a dictator is still inane.

I don't think it's inherently absurd to compare a democratically elected candidate to a non-democratically elected candidate (ignoring the murkiness of some nations' elections), on the level of policy. The biggest reason that comparing Obama to Hitler or Stalin is absurd, beyond the fact that the latter two are most well known for the fact that they had millions of people murdered, is that comparing policies is ridiculous--Hitler tried to rebuild the German economy through massive military spending.

So, if someone says, "Obama is as undemocratic as Peron", that strains credibility. But if someone merely says, "Obama reminds me a lot of Peron", I think it's an allegation worth exploring.

[Iskandar]

Knowing you, you're at least partially motivated by the desire to smear him by associating him with a dictator.

[1338 h4x0r]

Reagan tried to build the economy in part through massive military spending

Therefore, Reagan is Hitler

(Clearly)

[YDtoad]

Knowing you, you're at least partially motivated by the desire to smear him by associating him with a dictator.

There are aspects of his election and rule which I feel compromise democracy, but not in the sense of him actually being a dictator. It's no smear though--democratic legitimacy is just one aspect of governance. Would it be a smear to compare him to James Buchanan? I don't see much of a comparison but Buchanan was the most inept president in history; surely it's just as bad to be compared to him as Peron. It's only a smear to compare him to a non-democratically elected leader if the person hearing the comparison rushes to assume that the comparison is on the level of democratic legitimacy (or, in many dictators' cases, respect for human rights).

[YDtoad]

Reagan tried to build the economy in part through massive military spending

Therefore, Reagan is Hitler

(Clearly)

Many other leaders rebuilt the economy through military spending, including FDR. Thus your comparison is ill-conceived.

[Iskandar]

There are aspects of his election and rule which I feel compromise democracy, but not in the sense of him actually being a dictatorYou're talking about Peron and not Obama right?

[1338 h4x0r]

Many other leaders rebuilt the economy through military spending, including FDR. Thus your comparison is ill-conceived.

Of course it's ill-conceived

(So is yours)

[YDtoad]

You're talking about Peron and not Obama right?

No I think that Peron pretty clearly crossed the line into being a dictator. Obama's obviously not. But a leader can lead as a democrat while in some ways imperiling democracy. See: Wilson jailing political opponents. Yes, Obama has not done something comparable. But that doesn't mean that there aren't aspects that compromise democracy.

[1338 h4x0r]

What has Obama done that compromises democracy

[Iskandar]

Obama's election was perfectly fair. What on earth are you talking about.

You're still desperate to hate the guy eh.

[YDtoad]

Of course it's ill-conceived

(So is yours)

Your comparison was limited to:

Hitler rebuilt the German economy through aggressive military spending
Reagan increased military spending
Ergo these are fit for comparison

This fails on a number of levels. First of all, you offered nothing beyond the fact that both leaders increased military spending. This doesn't note the dramatic difference between the two--Hitler dramatically increased military spending as the preeminent way to resurrect a dead economy. Reagan increased military spending in an arms race with a non-democratic adversary. Hitler's military budget led to the conquest of neighboring countries, Reagan had no such ambition.
And then there is the fact that Hitler is remembered not for his military spending but for his mass murder. Peron was not a mass murderer and thus the comparison has no intrinsic "ugh" factor.


The comparison between Obama and Peron is far more valid.
Both leaders promoted pro-labor and anti-trade policies
Both leaders had charismatic wives
Both leads promoted large infrastructure projects as a way to revitalize the economy
Both leaders made the most out of large crowds and charismatic speeches

etc.

[Iskandar]

Both leaders promoted pro-labor and anti-trade policiesIn rhetoric not practice.
Both leaders had charismatic wivesHaha, Michelle Obama is Evita because she's popular?
Both leads promoted large infrastructure projects as a way to revitalize the economy
Both leaders made the most out of large crowds and charismatic speechesThese are both fair enough, but then lots and lots of leaders fit these criteria.

I just don't think your comparison is a useful one.

[YDtoad]

Obama's election was perfectly fair. What on earth are you talking about.

You're still desperate to hate the guy eh.

A fair election can still be one that compromises democracy.

For instance:

Candidate A spends $1,000,000,000 and receives adulatory praise from major media sources.
Candidate B spends $1,000,000 and receives largely negative press.

The election, in terms of the actual voting, is perfectly free and fair.

But is this the sign of a truly healthy democracy? Obviously not.

[Iskandar]

Oh so this is about campaign financing again.

[YDtoad]

In rhetoric not practice.

Obama's just getting started. He's backed off some of his harder-line rhetoric, to his credit, but he can go back on that at any time. We'll see if he actually passes the Colombian free trade agreement.

But you would agree then that rhetorically there is room for comparison between the two?


Haha, Michelle Obama is Evita because she's popular?

Popular and charismatic, and a vital part of the presidential presentation, yes.


These are both fair enough, but then lots and lots of leaders fit these criteria.

I just don't think your comparison is a useful one.

Well, comparing him to one leaders doesn't preclude comparing him to others. Who would you have in mind?

I think that the biggest benefit of comparisons is evaluating outcomes. Peron bankrupted Argentina.

[YDtoad]

Oh so this is about campaign financing again.

This does go back to my position that a dramatic disparity in campaign resources between candidates in a two-party system compromises democracy. As does a gross disparity in media coverage. As, for that matter, does the extremely shady practices of organizations such as ACORN.

[Iskandar]

Not this ACORN crap again.

You haven't changed your angle one bit have you.

[YDtoad]

Not this ACORN crap again.


Systematic voter registration fraud is nothing to scoff at.

[1338 h4x0r]

The comparison between Obama and Peron is far more valid.
Both leaders promoted pro-labor and anti-trade policies
Both leaders had charismatic wives
Both leads promoted large infrastructure projects as a way to revitalize the economy
Both leaders made the most out of large crowds and charismatic speeches


THEY BOTH HAD BLACK HAIR TOO. COINCIDENCE?!?! YOU DECIDE

Raygun made plenty out of "large crowds" and "charismatic speeches" too, and, guess what, neither Raygun nor Obama have really undermined democracy in the scheme of things

I like what Edsger W. Dijkstra had to say:

......It is probably more illuminating to go a little bit further back, to the Middle Ages. One of its characteristics was that "reasoning by analogy" was rampant; another characteristic was almost total intellectual stagnation, and we now see why the two go together. A reason for mentioning this is to point out that, by developing a keen ear for unwarranted analogies, one can detect a lot of medieval thinking today

......with Steve being one of the most prejudicial medieval thinkers I have ever seen

[Iskandar]

Obama's just getting started. He's backed off some of his harder-line rhetoric, to his credit, but he can go back on that at any time. We'll see if he actually passes the Colombian free trade agreement.

But you would agree then that rhetorically there is room for comparison between the two?Yes but not enough to say anything useful. There is room for comparison between George Bush and Saddam Hussein, but that wouldn't be particularly enlightening.
Popular and charismatic, and a vital part of the presidential presentation, yes.Lol not really. The First Lady is pretty inconsequential.
I think that the biggest benefit of comparisons is evaluating outcomes. Peron bankrupted Argentina.Let me know when Obama bankrupts America then.

[YDtoad]

Yes but not enough to say anything useful. There is room for comparison between George Bush and Saddam Hussein, but that wouldn't be particularly enlightening.

There's virtually no comparisons to be made between Bush and Saddam.


Lol not really. The First Lady is pretty inconsequential.

Some first ladies are. Michelle Obama is not.


Let me know when Obama bankrupts America then.

Well that's what he's in the midst of doing ;)

[Dave de Sylvia]

In rhetoric not practice.
Well in practice too, if his latest corporate tax policy is anything to go by:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/04/obama-taxes-evasion-business-washington-fraud.html

Ignore the partisanship of the article- it's the only one I could drag up from my history. The cold facts of the plan are all there.

[Iskandar]

There's virtually no comparisons to be made between Bush and Saddam.Appealed to the religious segments of the population, began wars of aggression. See? This is a fun game.
Some first ladies are. Michelle Obama is not.How is she not. She has no influence on his policies.
Well that's what he's in the midst of doing ;)Says the conservative who's hated him since day one.

[1338 h4x0r]

Why doesn't YDchode just admit that argument by analogy is very rarely a useful means of inductive reasoning

[YDtoad]

Well in practice too, if his latest corporate tax policy is anything to go by:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/04/obama-taxes-evasion-business-washington-fraud.html

Ignore the partisanship of the article- it's the only one I could drag up from my history. The cold facts of the plan are all there.

Yes, that and card check. And handing over Chrysler to the effective control by the UAW, and the likelihood of GM heading to the same outcome. And Obama controlling Chrysler's corporate structure, marketing, etc.


How is she not. She has no influence on his policies.

You honestly believe this? I'd wager that she's the reason that Obama spent so long around Jeremiah "govt spread the AIDS" Wright.


Appealed to the religious segments of the population, began wars of aggression. See? This is a fun game.

I'm not real familiar with Saddam but from what I remember he was pretty secular for a middle eastern dictator and was much more of a tribal dictator than a Muslim fanatic. Saddam's wars were naked power grabs, Bush's were to spread democracy. Fundamental differences that invalidate the comparisons.

[1338 h4x0r]

Why doesn't YDchode just admit that argument by analogy is very rarely a useful means of inductive reasoning

Quoted

[YDtoad]

1338, I'm ignoring you :)

[1338 h4x0r]

You're ignoring me because I seriously challenged your backwards medieval worldview and you don't like it

Why doesn't YDchode ("Steve ) just admit that argument by analogy is very rarely a useful means of inductive reasoning

[Iskandar]

You honestly believe this? I'd wager that she's the reason that Obama spent so long around Jeremiah "govt spread the AIDS" Wright.You honestly believe anybody still cares about Wright.
I'm not real familiar with Saddam but from what I remember he was pretty secular for a middle eastern dictator and was much more of a tribal dictator than a Muslim fanatic. Saddam's wars were naked power grabs, Bush's were to spread democracy. Fundamental differences that invalidate the comparisons.Initially but he made efforts to reach out to Muslim hardliners.

Besides, Bush's attempts to spread democracy are about as welcome to many Arabs as Saddam's annexation of Kuwait. Results matter, not motives.

[Iskandar]

Stop using his full name.

[YDtoad]

You honestly believe anybody still cares about Wright.

You're ignoring my point here.


Initially but he made efforts to reach out to Muslim hardliners.

Besides, Bush's attempts to spread democracy are about as welcome to many Arabs as Saddam's annexation of Kuwait. Results matter, not motives.

That's a whole different comparison. That's saying "Bush was about as effective as Saddam." Which is different than saying "Bush's policies were like Saddam's." Which again is different than saying "Bush is a dictator like Saddam", which would be absurd as calling Obama a dictator is absurd.

[Iskandar]

You're ignoring my point here.You're bringing up a non-issue. Wright is irrelevant to Obama's current policies.
That's a whole different comparison. That's saying "Bush was about as effective as Saddam." Which is different than saying "Bush's policies were like Saddam's." Which again is different than saying "Bush is a dictator like Saddam", which would be absurd as calling Obama a dictator is absurd.Starting unpopular wars that lead to foreign condemnation is a similiarity and I think not an unjustified one.

[die of starvation]

peron became vp after a military coup, obama's speech at the 2004 dnc was a major coup for him
peron was a catholic, obama is secretly muslim
peron admired mussolini, obama admired his grandmother who was alive at the same time as mussolini
peron had opposition on the right and the left, obama's opposition doesn't know the difference between their right and left

they really are the same guy

[Mr. Ron]

Os(b)ama

[YDtoad]

You're bringing up a non-issue. Wright is irrelevant to Obama's current policies.

My argument wasn't that Wright influenced Obama's current policies, but rather that Obama maintained his close ties to Wright for 20 years in part because of his wife's influence, which demonstrates the influence she has on him.

I don't know why you're so opposed to the idea that she has influence. It's not as if Betty Ford, Ladybird Johnson, and Eleanor Roosevelt didn't have influence. And of course Hillary had lots of influence. I'm not stating that this is unique to Obama in terms of US presidents, but that Michelle Obama, in having both the political influence of Hillary and the cultural influence of Jacqueline Kennedy, more closely resembles Evita Peron than any other first lady.


Starting unpopular wars that lead to foreign condemnation is a similiarity and I think not an unjustified one.

Ah so now you're legitimizing comparisons ;)

[1338 h4x0r]

peron became vp after a military coup, obama's speech at the 2004 dnc was a major coup for him
peron was a catholic, obama is secretly muslim
peron admired mussolini, obama admired his grandmother who was alive at the same time as mussolini
peron had opposition on the right and the left, obama's opposition doesn't know the difference between their right and left

they really are the same guy

Quoted

[YDtoad]

peron became vp after a military coup, obama's speech at the 2004 dnc was a major coup for him
peron was a catholic, obama is secretly muslim
peron admired mussolini, obama admired his grandmother who was alive at the same time as mussolini
peron had opposition on the right and the left, obama's opposition doesn't know the difference between their right and left

they really are the same guy

One and two are valid differentiations. On the third point, Obama admired his father, who was a hard-line Marxist and preacher of Nkrumah style tyranny. And Obama admires a variety of other leftists who can hardly be said to be democratic.

My argument isn't that they're identical, but rather that there are conspicuous comparisons to be made and that they legitimize comparing the two leaders.

[Iskandar]

My argument wasn't that Wright influenced Obama's current policies, but rather that Obama maintained his close ties to Wright for 20 years in part because of his wife's influence, which demonstrates the influence she has on him.That may be, but it's totally irrelevant if it doesn't impact his current policies.
Ah so now you're legitimizing comparisons ;)Arguing that particular comparison is legitimate, yes. Obviously lots of them aren't. Bush never gassed villages of Kurds (that I know of).

[Iskandar]

One and two are valid differentiations.Obama is a secret Muslim?
On the third point, Obama admired his father, who was a hard-line Marxist and preacher of Nkrumah style tyranny.Guilt by association.
And Obama admires a variety of other leftists who can hardly be said to be democratic.Like who.

[YDtoad]

That may be, but it's totally irrelevant if it doesn't impact his current policies.

What's totally irrelevant? His history with Wright or Michelle Obama? Because I'm not arguing the former, I'm arguing the latter.

[Iskandar]

What's totally irrelevant? His history with Wright or Michelle Obama? Because I'm not arguing the former, I'm arguing the latter.Both are irrelevant unless you can point out how they impact on his current policies, since that's what we're discussing. We're not trying to character-assassinate Obama based on what he did before being President.

[YDtoad]

Obama is a secret Muslim?

:lol: Absolutely!



Guilt by association.

The post was attempting to claim that Obama, unlike Peron, does not/did not like or associate with radical figures.


Like who.

Edward Sayid, Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dorin, any of the Marxists who he doesn't name but speaks of during his college days, etc.

[YDtoad]

Both are irrelevant unless you can point out how they impact on his current policies, since that's what we're discussing. We're not trying to character-assassinate Obama based on what he did before being President.

tbh I haven't followed Michelle Obama close enough to guess what she's been directly involved with. I'd have to actually listen to extended speeches of hers to see what she cares about and thus what she's involving herself in, and listening to her speak is an excruciating experience.

[Already_Taken]

like 80% of what this guy says is pure conjecture. nothing wrong with that, but arguing with him seems pretty dumb.

[Iskandar]

:lol: Absolutely!The thing is, I want to think you're joking but I can't be absolutely sure.
The post was attempting to claim that Obama, unlike Peron, does not/did not like or associate with radical figures.I was claiming his wife doesn't influence his politics.
Edward Sayid, Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dorin, any of the Marxists who he doesn't name but speaks of during his college days, etc.This is just guilt by association. How is this stuff relevant?

[Already_Taken]

iskandar, you could say bush approving the 9/11 attacks is similar to gassing a villiage of kurds, granted there was different incentives, but through all the smoke they both viciously murdered their own people.

[YDtoad]

The thing is, I want to think you're joking but I can't be absolutely sure.

Well, be sure that I am. I've never endorsed wingnut conspiracies about him (eg birth certificate nonsense), so...

This is just guilt by association. How is this stuff relevant?

You're guessing that I'm making an argument that I'm not making. This was a specific response to an incorrect differentiation between Obama and Peron.

[Iskandar]

You're guessing that I'm making an argument that I'm not making. This was a specific response to an incorrect differentiation between Obama and Peron.I don't really know what you were saying besides implying Obama is a Marxist.
iskandar, you could say bush approving the 9/11 attacks is similar to gassing a villiage of kurds, granted there was different incentives, but through all the smoke they both viciously murdered their own people.He didn't approve the 9/11 attacks though. That's conspiracy nonsense.

You would have a better chance arguing going to war with Iraq was morally equivalent to what Saddam did, at least as far as results and not motives.

[Already_Taken]

he's trying to set up guidelines to this argument so that nothing unplanned can sneak in and undermine him. if he fabricates the entire argument, there is no way he can be wrong in his own loony mind.

[YDtoad]

I don't really know what you were saying besides implying Obama is a Marxist.

:lol: Again you're reading things in that simply aren't there. The claim was that Obama didn't associate with or admire far-out/anti-democratic people. It's an incorrect claim. That's the extent of it.

[Iskandar]

:lol: Again you're reading things in that simply aren't there. The claim was that Obama didn't associate with or admire far-out/anti-democratic people. It's an incorrect claim. That's the extent of it.I don't remember claiming that.

I did claim these people have no influence on the way he governs so it's pointless to bring them up.

[YDtoad]

I don't remember claiming that.

You didn't. DOS did.

[die of starvation]

what dictators does obama admire

[YDtoad]

what dictators does obama admire

I didn't say he admired dictators, I said he admired far-out/anti-democratic people.

[Iskandar]

You didn't. DOS did.Well why are you arguing with me then? Lol.

By the way he's Tway.

[YDtoad]

Well why are you arguing with me then? Lol.

It's your fault, you're too argumentative today.

[Already_Taken]

jesus if there was a class about how to argue i'd think you would teach it ydload. seriously i'm glad you're back, you make me LOL with every post.

[die of starvation]

I didn't say he admired dictators, I said he admired far-out/anti-democratic people.

mussolini was a dictator

[Iskandar]

It's your fault, you're too argumentative today.I'm always argumentative. Apparently I've become a jerk lately.

[YDtoad]

jesus if there was a class about how to argue i'd think you would teach it ydload.

There are classes in argument. When you get to college you'll likely see one listed.


mussolini was a dictator

Castro likes cigars. What's your point?


Apparently I've become a jerk lately.

Erm lately? :D

[die of starvation]

Castro likes cigars. What's your point?
point is what dictators does obama admire

[YDtoad]

point is what dictators does obama admire

I didn't say Obama admires dictators, so...

[die of starvation]

so none
unlike peron
who admired dictators

[Iskandar]

Castro likes cigars. What's your point?Obama had some shady relationships. What's yours?
Erm lately? :DI used to be one of the nicest users on here, or at least one of the most idealistic.

[YDtoad]

so none
unlike peron
who admired dictators

Peron admired far-out and anti-democratic people. So does Obama. The fact that Peron's heroes happened to get power is really of little consequence. If you admired Enoch Powell, that would say something about you regardless of the fact that Powell never gained power.

[Iskandar]

Does Obama currently admire these people?

[YDtoad]

Obama had some shady relationships. What's yours?

That is mine.

I used to be one of the nicest users on here, or at least one of the most idealistic.

Idealistic, yes. Nice? Well, maybe relatively speaking.

Idealists scare me, because idealism leads to utopianism which is extremely dangerous. Not that I lump you in that category though.

[YDtoad]

Does Obama currently admire these people?

I don't know, I'm not in his mind :p

[Iskandar]

That is mine.It doesn't say much about Obama's governance so it's basically an attempt at character assassination.
Idealistic, yes. Nice? Well, maybe relatively speaking.Hey I was always nice to you. I think.,

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah but you might as well just conjecture, Steve

[die of starvation]

Peron admired far-out and anti-democratic people. So does Obama. The fact that Peron's heroes happened to get power is really of little consequence. If you admired Enoch Powell, that would say something about you regardless of the fact that Powell never gained power.
the political views of people who dont hold political power arent particularly important to their personality or to anyone else

[YDtoad]

It doesn't say much about Obama's governance so it's basically an attempt at character assassination.

Nothing to do with character assassination, I'm just stating a fact. I see no such adoration of anti-democratic figures in George Bush's life, or the contemporary right (outside of the Pat Buchanan wing) in general.



Hey I was always nice to you. I think.,

Oh ye of little memory.

[Iskandar]

People who vote.
Nothing to do with character assassination, I'm just stating a fact. An irrelevant fact, so.

[die of starvation]

People who vote.
An irrelevant fact, so.

yes we've all seen the mighty power wielded by the lone "crazy person" voting

[YDtoad]

the political views of people who dont hold political power arent particularly important to their personality or to anyone else

No but who the people who are in power admire certainly is.

[Iskandar]

yes we've all seen the mighty power wielded by the lone "crazy person" votingPeople, not a person.
No but who the people who are in power admire certainly is.That's inconsequential next to what they actually do.

If you want to criticize Obama, start with his policies, not this guilt by association crap.

[die of starvation]

No but who the people who are in power admire certainly is.
what

People, not a person.
mussolini is people now

[Iskandar]

mussolini is people nowMussolini is people who vote now, according to you.

[YDtoad]

If you want to criticize Obama, start with his policies, not this guilt by association crap.

You honestly mean to argue that admiring far-out and anti-democratic figures doesn't say something about a person?

Imagine if someone campaigned talking about how much they admired the Tamil Tigers, the BNP, and the Front Nationale. None of these groups has power. But admiration of any of them would make me say no to voting for a person.

[Iskandar]

You honestly mean to argue that admiring far-out and anti-democratic figures doesn't say something about a person?

Imagine if someone campaigned talking about how much they admired the Tamil Tigers, the BNP, and the Front Nationale. None of these groups has power. But admiration of any of them would make me say no to voting for a person.No, just that what they actually do means a lot more.

I mean this is politics we're talking about here. It's generally not a good idea to base everything on what people say.

[YDtoad]

No, just that what they actually do means a lot more.

I mean this is politics we're talking about here. It's generally not a good idea to base everything on what people say.

Remember that my area of PS is behavior and psychology has a lot to do with the study of political behavior. So I'm very interested in what people say.

[die of starvation]

Mussolini is people who vote now, according to you.

according to me people who vote now invented fascism

[Iskandar]

Remember that my area of PS is behavior and psychology has a lot to do with the study of political behavior. So I'm very interested in what people say.Mine isn't so I'm far more interested in what they do.

[YDtoad]

Mine isn't so I'm far more interested in what they do.

Yes, I was noticing this dichotomy :p

[Iskandar]

Yes, I was noticing this dichotomy :pWhy is what they say more important than what they do?

[YDtoad]

Why is what they say more important than what they do?

Because what they say, along with how they act, often ends up saying more about their competence and how they'll act in the long run. Any psychological portrait of Hitler compiled before he initiated the Holocaust would've predicted the Holocaust, and a very accurate one diagnosed his ultimate demise (that he would desire martyrdom through suicide but be unable to do it himself, instead having someone kill him).

[mph4ever]

You honestly mean to argue that admiring far-out and anti-democratic figures doesn't say something about a person?

Imagine if someone campaigned talking about how much they admired the Tamil Tigers, the BNP, and the Front Nationale. None of these groups has power. But admiration of any of them would make me say no to voting for a person.


how can you draw comparisons with the tamil tigers and the bnp?

[YDtoad]

how can you draw comparisons with the tamil tigers and the bnp?

I wanted to cover a diverse cross-section of terrible groups ;)

[Dave de Sylvia]

I admire James Brown, which means I have a hard-on for narcotics and wife-beating.

[Iskandar]

Because what they say, along with how they act, often ends up saying more about their competence and how they'll act in the long run. Any psychological portrait of Hitler compiled before he initiated the Holocaust would've predicted the Holocaust, and a very accurate one diagnosed his ultimate demise (that he would desire martyrdom through suicide but be unable to do it himself, instead having someone kill him).Wouldn't that have to be based on his prior actions.

[YDtoad]

Wouldn't that have to be based on his prior actions.

Not necessarily. Words, lifestyle, early experiences, etc.

I have a hard-on for narcotics and wife-beating.

We all knew that.

[mph4ever]

I wanted to cover a diverse cross-section of terrible groups ;)

oh....k


guess i just don't see the sri lankan tamils as terrible

[Iskandar]

Not necessarily. Words, lifestyle, early experiences, etc.Ie. actions.
guess i just don't see the sri lankan tamils as terrible
They aren't. It's the Tamil Tigers (who do not represent Sri Lankan Tamils as a whole) who are. They're to the Tamils what Hamas is to the Palestinians.

[Iskandar]

Iskander is already the people's moderater.

[Mr. Ron]

http://i42.tinypic.com/ev6n1e.jpg

[Iskandar]

He can be the moderator of the washboard forum.

[1338 h4x0r]

I admire James Brown, which means I have a hard-on for narcotics and wife-beating.

lol

that was actually pretty funny

[Mr. Ron]

Moderator Alex has left us by the wayside, with our stomachs hungry and our pockets empty with no jobs and no future in sight. May our new great leader rise and bring us to greatness.

[Iskandar]

Iskandar has provided stability and justice to the teeming masses in the absence of our neglectful tyrant, Smokey D.

(Where is that boy anyway.)

[1338 h4x0r]

All hail Eliminator

[Room13]

eliminator is a magnifying glass to the hopes and dreams of mx

[Room13]

eliminator will also work with mx scientists to find a cure for canceraids, which has plagued many of the posters and threads for years.

[1338 h4x0r]

Eliminator will end poverty, the scourge of hard drugs, menial labor, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and black people

All hail Eliminator

[Mr. Ron]

0/0/0/

[Iskandar]

You guys are weird.

[JohnXDoe3]

Iskander is already the people's moderater.
so the mighty will tell you....

never trust those is a position of power. yes, even internet power

"peoples mod"

bah!!

"i'm not a smart man, but i know what an oxymoron is"

:p

[1338 h4x0r]

Heil unserm Führer, heil Elim diiiiiiiir!

[Iskandar]

الحمد لإسكندر رب المنتدى

[Room13]

no praise the lord for eliminator, for eliminator praises the lord

[Iskandar]

Lol Google translator.

It actually says "Praise be to Iskandar, Lord of the forum".

[Mr. Ron]

There is only one way to solve this

alex and nick must wrestle bare chested in a kitty pool full of honey and strawberries

[Room13]

Lol Google translator.

It actually says "Praise be to Iskandar, Lord of the forum".

ya w/e the bard prefers eliminator

[Iskandar]

There is only one way to solve this

alex and nick must wrestle bare chested in a kitty pool full of honey and strawberriesKiddy pool.

Lol, a pool for cats? Have you ever known a cat to like water?

[Light Flantastic]

there are plenty of cats that like water

[Iskandar]

Turkish Van.

[Led_Zep_Bonham]

'Twould be a sticky pussy pool if it was filled with honey and berries.

[Room13]

they dont drink it or anything

[Iskandar]

No?

[ridethelib]

No.

[Mr. Ron]

Kiddy pool.

Lol, a pool for cats? Have you ever known a cat to like water?
None


know why?


I drown them all

[Led_Zep_Bonham]

Drown them in kitty litter!



(feces)

[McP3000]

i love cats

[Already_Taken]

my cat is in heat i'm about to rip its head off

[McP3000]

theres this procedure called spay

[Already_Taken]

hold on i'm trying to see if i want to spend 60 dollars on domesticating a wild animal or if she's going to rip me to shreds while i'm sleeping in which case i don't

[McP3000]

so youre just gonna let her drive you crazy??

gg

[1338 h4x0r]

There should be a thread about black people in this subforum

I'd get b& if I posted it though

I'd want to post, like, "Black people, what is to be done with them?"

[sweboy]

"Black people - what are they, and what are they good for?"

[OzzyTornadoII]

absolutely nothin

[Iskandar]

Music, for one.
hold on i'm trying to see if i want to spend 60 dollars on domesticating a wild animal or if she's going to rip me to shreds while i'm sleeping in which case i don'tNo, it's totally worth it because they drive you nuts, and they won't run away for days looking for (other) pussies.

One thing that is a waste of time and money is declawing, unless you have to because of building codes or something.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

i think they are the little starts you get when sleeping sometimes

[Already_Taken]

No, it's totally worth it because they drive you nuts, and they won't run away for days looking for (other) pussies.

One thing that is a waste of time and money is declawing, unless you have to because of building codes or something.

yeah declawing is inhumane i never even considered it.

[Iskandar]

I don't know about inhumane so much (at least no more than neutering) but it's generally unnecessary.

[McP3000]

i find it inhumane. its the equivalent of cutting off all your final joints of your fingers (where the nails are)

[Iskandar]

Well you can file down claws anyway. I don't know why people don't realize this.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Inhumane is probably a bit dramatic, but it is a bit mean. You might as well make it wear mittens, which would be much cuter.

[Morbus]

sup

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

it's like having a human dehaired.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Like Michael Phelps?

[Iskandar]

Like every swimmer ever.

[Already_Taken]

a cat without front claws is completely defenseless. they can't catch prey. they can't climb trees. it's pretty detrimental to their psyche to de-claw them.

[Ando!]

phelps had a beard at his comeback race

[mph4ever]

phelps had a beard at his comeback race

lost a few milli seconds speed there then

and we need to be careful about some of the conversation with bridgetosolace around. we don't want to hurt feelings

[Led_Zep_Bonham]

There should be a thread about black people in this subforum

I'd get b& if I posted it though

I'd want to post, like, "Black people, what is to be done with them?"

Better question for this msgboard is , "How many black people do you know?" or "Favorite Black People Names" and so on.

[1338 h4x0r]

I know about 1,488 black people, and I curbstomped all of them

[Morbus]

racist

[sweboy]

racist

how can you say this without knowing his curbstomping rates for other ethnic groups?

[Mr. Ron]

The plot thickens

[Morbus]

how can you say this without knowing his curbstomping rates for other ethnic groups?

touche

[Mr. Ron]

For instance, I stomped forty three west Africans since last Tuesday, however, I stomped over one hundred and twenty Kurds since last month. See? I am clearly not a racist.

[McP3000]

all other races deserve equal curb stompings

[1338 h4x0r]

I even curbstomped myself

I got no front toofs

I believe in equal opportunity curbstomping; notice that I didn't say mudstomping

[Iskandar]

Guys we could make curbstomping so much more efficient if we just got Big White Nationalist to back off and let the free market decide what subhumans are to be assaulted.

[Mr. Ron]

well if we're talking about untermensch then clearly we are not tlaking about Aryans. Therefore the freemarket would exclude them from curbstomping.

[Already_Taken]

Guys we could make curbstomping so much more efficient if we just got Big White Nationalist to back off and let the free market decide what subhumans are to be assaulted.

i didn't even have to read your post to know that it would say that. i miss siva, he was actually thought provoking. tbh, i hated nothing more about him than his choice of avatar with a gun pointed at me.

[McP3000]

he changed it the months before he left

he was a quite intelligent person. wherever did he go?

[Iskandar]

i didn't even have to read your post to know that it would say that. i miss siva, he was actually thought provoking.I get a kick out of these people. What can I say.

[Already_Taken]

you don't even know how often i refrain from posting "lol" just so you don't have to think about banning me.

[McP3000]

lol

[Already_Taken]

can someone plz ban this nuisance? jk i'm all for libertarianism on the boards. you know, since nobody's life is at stake and all

[1338 h4x0r]

let the market decide who gets banned

[McP3000]

id say yes but the mx market is heavily government regulated and its outcome would be distorted

[Dave de Sylvia]

who said libertarians were boring!

[Light Flantastic]

libertarians want you to be able to party down with drugs and prostitutes of course they arent boring

[McP3000]

hey now

libertarians don't need to pay or sex

we choose to

[Iskandar]

can someone plz ban this nuisance? jk i'm all for libertarianism on the boards. you know, since nobody's life is at stake and allBan who? Iskandar? Chad?
you don't even know how often i refrain from posting "lol" just so you don't have to think about banning me.
I wouldn't ban you, baby, even though people have requested it before.
libertarians want you to be able to party down with drugs and prostitutes of course they arent boringSo do liberals except they spend far less time waxing nostalgic about the virtues of child labour.
hey now

libertarians don't need to pay or sex

we choose toWho needs real human interaction when that can be purchased on the open market.

[1338 h4x0r]

You're a major troll Iskander

[Iskandar]

Not really, though I suppose I have been trolling more than is necessary lately.

But then so have you and many others.

[1338 h4x0r]

Rural Chinese men with no women in their area

[Iskandar]

Urban Saudi men who aren't allowed to approach women because of the laws of mahram.

[1338 h4x0r]

Even if that were true, two wrongs wouldn't make a right

Iskander

[1338 h4x0r]

lol

I would hate to be living in Saudi Arabia

if I were a 21 year old male in Saudi Arabia

you'd see me with a Swedish grammar in my hand at all times

[Iskandar]

No, but I've just become such a controversial figure lately.

[1338 h4x0r]

You've become a troll lately

[Iskandar]

That would be why.

You have to fight fire with fire. Privatized fire on the open market.

[Iskandar]

I'd hate it too.

But if you were 21 you'd probably be engaged already.

[1338 h4x0r]

If I were 21 I'd be engaged but planning to flee at first possible opportunity

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm not a troll

[Iskandar]

Neither am I, but both of us have been known to troll.

Also you spam a lot.

[Iskandar]

To where? Kuwait is nearby and Saudi Arabia makes it look like a liberal paradise.

[1338 h4x0r]

Sweden

I'd be macking on Swedish bitches

there would have to be a scene like in that Sega Genesis game Desert Strike where I'm dressed in traditional Arab clothing, running up to a helicopter which spirits me away with a flexible metal ladder