PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[Iskandar]

Not true. The Great Depression was caused by deflation. So was Japan's lost decade.Deflation or disinflation?

Bona fide deflation is pretty rare.

[Smokey D]

Deflation.

Prices collapsed. They didn't merely increase at a slightly smaller rate.


Bona fide deflation is pretty rare.

True. But it does happen and is usually pretty bad.

[Iskandar]

Yeah, during really bad times like the Depression.

People were afraid it would happen during the initial stages of the current recession but so far it seems their fears were allayed.

[andyneverstoppingmachine]

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/042209/golf-baseball.gif

[ridethelib]

lol ^

[McP3000]

that was terrible

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1172587/Cady-little-girl-killed-2002-car-crash-live-clone.html

[Der Übermensch]

thespacekeyonmykeyboardseemstbebroken:(Thissucks.T hebottomrowofthenumberpadtoo...everythingelseworks finethough.wtf!!!!?!?

[ridethelib]

stop coming on the bottom row of your keyboard and you'll be fine

[Der Übermensch]

Shouldntitbethe$keythatisntworkinginthatcase...?

[ridethelib]

no cuz that key is on top

[sweboy]

ATTN Übermensch: ctrl+c a " " (a space that is) and paste it

[ridethelib]

I nominate sweboy for a Pulitzer Prize for this groundbreaking idea.

[sweboy]

guys is "arbitrarity" a word?

[Already_Taken]

no just say arbitrary.

[mph4ever]

ATTN Übermensch: ctrl+c a " " (a space that is) and paste it

and heres me trying to figure out how to get the hex character for space/null on a qwerty keyboard like we used to in the dos days

[Cesar21]

So an extra 180 miles of Great Wall has been uncovered in China. As if it wasn't long enough.

[sweboy]

no just say arbitrary.

but that's a completely different word, i want to say "the arbitarity of [something] yada yada"

[Already_Taken]

say "[something] is arbitrary, therefore ..."

or

"[it] is so arbitrary that...."

[RockAndRoll]

I think the word you are looking for is arbitrariness.

[sweboy]

thank you rockandroll, fu already taken!

[Already_Taken]

sorry swebrodude

[sweboy]

its ok dudeman

[Already_Taken]

tight

[die of starvation]

swebro is english like ur fif language

[sweboy]

something like that, yeah

[die of starvation]

that must suck

[Iskandar]

Nej, jag kan talar inte Svenska.

[Mr. Ron]

fjord!!!!!!

[Iskandar]

Jord*

[Mr. Ron]

I'm pretty sure its fjord

[Der Übermensch]

I just watched the News Hour for the first time in months. I forgot how awesome it is!! It makes CNN/FOX/MSNBC all look like they are tabloids or something.

[Iskandar]

I prefer CBC, though BBC is excellent too. I get both. I never watch the American news channels except when I wanted to see the almost constant coverage of the presidential campaigns, because it takes your country a year to hold an election for some reason.
I'm pretty sure its fjordJord means soil or earth. Fjord means, well, fjord.

[BridgeToSolace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtFMj6ZiHM

Shepard Smith continues to be a comparatively bright light on a otherwise fairly dark network.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

I prefer CBC, though BBC is excellent too. I get both. I never watch the American news channels except when I wanted to see the almost constant coverage of the presidential campaigns, because it takes your country a year to hold an election for some reason.
Jord means soil or earth. Fjord means, well, fjord.
i know what jord means

[die of starvation]

Nej, jag kan talar inte Svenska.

ya im sittin here in ventrillo playing some dota too

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

basshunter im good
...
why do people talk about if we have free will it seems so pointless

[die of starvation]

some people are just destined to talk about free will

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

i choose not to understand wtf they are babbling about

[die of starvation]

omg i just did a science

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

i did a art on it

[Iskandar]

It must have been the will of Allah.

[Der Übermensch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtFMj6ZiHM

Shepard Smith continues to be a comparatively bright light on a otherwise fairly dark network.

Lol. As far as Fox anchors go, he is the one who I can stand the best... even if it does look like he wears heavy mascara...

[BridgeToSolace]

Lol. As far as Fox anchors go, he is the one who I can stand the best... even if it does look like he wears heavy mascara...

He seems like a reasonable guy, I usually point to him when people accuse fox of being a complete wasteland. He made fun of Glenn Beck's ridiculousness at least once on his show.

He's also the only gay anchor on Fox, according to me mum. Wiki doesn't mention it, though.

[sweboy]

that must suck

no man it's awesome

[die of starvation]

no man it's awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fWhYiJn_QY

[Iskandar]

Anyone remember Zoroaster.
I'm a trailblazer. And to be specific, I don't work at any old bank. I work at the top investment bank on the Street. And what's more, my job is really quite meaningful. I work on a so-called proprietary trading desk for this bank's in-house hedge fund. Basically, I buy and sell fixed-income instruments using the bank's money. Or in different terms, I allocate money to profitable ventures and take from loss-making ventures. I am a de facto price-maker. Without me, the financial system would, as Yeates so poetically put it, "fall apart."
I'm not a teller. Don't offend me. Those people are trash. If you're not making more than one million a year before you're thirty, well, then you're trash. Tellers are trash.

[die of starvation]

i just figured he was lying but now i hope it was true and he's one of those guys who got fired and then got a bonus and then congress took it away even better maybe he's in jail

[Mr. Ron]

haha what a douche nozzle

[beso negro]

yea his numbers are a little high I would say 100K instead of 1 million

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

hi beso negore how is day

[beso negro]

beautiful thx

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

day cool

that it

good

[sweboy]

Does anyone here speak Turkish?

[mph4ever]

i'll just eliminate myself from the silence and say no

[Iskandar]

Does anyone here speak Turkish?I think the user Rasputin is a Turk. He only posts here intermittently.

Just curious, what the hell do you need Turkish for?

[die of starvation]

turkish is a dead language

[Iskandar]

Turkish (Türkçe) is spoken as a first language by over 63 million people worldwide, making it the most commonly spoken of the Turkic languages. Its speakers are located predominantly in Turkey and Cyprus, with smaller groups in Iraq, Greece, Bulgaria, the Republic of Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania and other parts of Eastern Europe. Turkish is also spoken by several million immigrants in Western Europe, particularly in Germany.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

i have a question are turkeys the opposite of chickens

[rasputin]

Turkish (Türkçe) is spoken as a first language by over 63 million people worldwide, making it the most commonly spoken of the Turkic languages. Its speakers are located predominantly in Turkey and Cyprus, with smaller groups in Iraq, Greece, Bulgaria, the Republic of Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania and other parts of Eastern Europe. Turkish is also spoken by several million immigrants in Western Europe, particularly in Germany.
And Turkic languages, which for the most part are to certain degrees mutually intelligible, are spoken by 300 million people.

[Iskandar]

You know your ancestors very nearly conquered the country of my ancestors but were repulsed by a multinational coaliton led by one of our most famous kings.

Funny how times change.

[rasputin]

Where are your ancestors from?

[Iskandar]

Poland.

Jan Sobieski left his own country undefended to aid in the Battle of Vienna.

[rasputin]

Oh right, I know the event obviously but not the man. I always knew Poland had some significance to Turkey because in older Turkish we have a particular name for Poland, but I didn't know exactly what that significance was.

[Iskandar]

What is the name?

Sobieski is a big deal in Poland because he's remembered as the guy whose bravery saved Christian Europe from the hordes of Islam and all that crap. I suppose in Turkey he would be remembered more as the guy who defeated the Ottomans and stopped their expansion westward.

[rasputin]

Lehistan. It's derived from Lechia. I find that with particular nations that have some importance in Turkish history, they have a -stan name rather than a modern name or French loan. Lehistan is not used anymore though, we just say Polonya.

[Iskandar]

Yes, I thought that might be it. I've heard it before.

Lech is the legendary founder of the Polish nation. The story goes that there were three brothers, Lech, Czech and Rus, who travelled north, west and east respectively and founded the Slavic peoples.

[rasputin]

Oh okay.

[die of starvation]

Turkish (Türkçe) is spoken as a first language by over 63 million people worldwide, making it the most commonly spoken of the Turkic languages. Its speakers are located predominantly in Turkey and Cyprus, with smaller groups in Iraq, Greece, Bulgaria, the Republic of Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania and other parts of Eastern Europe. Turkish is also spoken by several million immigrants in Western Europe, particularly in Germany.
how many of those 63 million actually matter
maybe like 1000 and they all speak english too

[rasputin]

probably as much as you do

[die of starvation]

in what world is "probably as much as you do" a valid response to a "how many" question

[rasputin]

they matter as much as you do

[die of starvation]

so you don't know what "how many" means

[Already_Taken]

shut up dude how many languages do you speak, tway? what's with people quantifying others' worth on this forum it's ****ing juvenile

[rasputin]

so you don't know what "how many" means
oh wow you caught onto a slip of my mind do you want a medal?

[die of starvation]

shut up dude how many languages do you speak, tway? what's with people quantifying others' worth on this forum it's ****ing juvenile
1 it's english that's the only language anyone needs to speak

oh wow you caught onto a slip of my mind do you want a medal?
no i want you to not post nonsensical bullshit

[DJ Karl Marx]

you are 1/16th nonsensical bullshit reaganista

[die of starvation]

is that supposed to be a racial slur

[rasputin]

it's pretty funny how those who only speak english like to throw the excuse 'it's the only language anyone needs to speak', as if speaking other languages was purely about how useful the language is

[die of starvation]

why would i do something useless to me i have enough difficulty doing things that will benefit me

[rasputin]

so it's due to lack of capability, fair enough

[die of starvation]

so it's due to lack of capability, fair enough
i cant think of any capabilities a person could have that would make learning turkish anything but completely useless

no if i wanted to slur you i wouldhave said youre a balderdashing son of a hermaphrodite bitch mudblood question mark large bundle of sticks deerhunter

you are a disgrace

[DJ Karl Marx]

youre a cat

[die of starvation]

is that another racial slur

[rasputin]

i cant think of any capabilities a person could have that would make learning turkish anything but completely useless
way to miss the point

i didn't go out of my way to learn turkish anyway, nor is it the only other language i speak. now stfu and go back to your trailer

[DJ Karl Marx]

is that another racial slur

is there a piece of celery in my ear

[Already_Taken]

saying english is the only language you need to speak pretty much lumps you into the same stereotype of the people you always stereotype. you know the religious people.

[die of starvation]

way to miss the point
the point of learning turkish? yes i have missed that but that's because there is none

i didn't go out of my way to learn turkish anyway, nor is it the only other language i speak. now stfu and go back to your trailer
i will in a high-rise

saying english is the only language you need to speak pretty much lumps you into the same stereotype of the people you always stereotype. you know the religious people.
uh the religious people all want to learn greek and hebrew even if most of them dont bother to try

[die of starvation]

is there a piece of celery in my ear
i have no idea i cant see it

[rasputin]

the point of learning turkish? yes i have missed that but that's because there is none
as if speaking other languages was purely about how useful the language is
way to further miss the point. gosh and i had just thought you couldn't prove yourself any more ignorant and stupid!

[Already_Taken]

this troll is making you look like you don't even know how to troll. just give up for a while, please. :rolleyes:

[rasputin]

that's because i'm not trolling

[die of starvation]

way to further miss the point. gosh and i had just thought you couldn't prove yourself any more ignorant and stupid!
so is what your point?
that i should learn turkish, which you apparently concede is useless, for recreational purposes?

[rasputin]

as if speaking other languages was purely about how useful the language is
third time

[die of starvation]

you're obtuse and trying to pass it off as cleverness or something
answer the question

so is what your point?
that i should learn turkish, which you apparently concede is useless, for recreational purposes?

[Already_Taken]

so is what your point?
that i should learn turkish, which you apparently concede is useless, for recreational purposes?

my point is you measure worth of a human being by some stupid arbitrary social norm that you were raised into and other people that measure your worth would give you a zero because you can't even communicate with most of the world. and you are stubbornly ignorant about it as well. good job

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

63 million isnt a lot

[Already_Taken]

63 million is a lot when it is pounds, of your girlfriend

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

how can nothing weigh 63 million pounds

loser

[die of starvation]

my point is you measure worth of a human being by some stupid arbitrary social norm that you were raised into and other people that measure your worth would give you a zero because you can't even communicate with most of the world. and you are stubbornly ignorant about it as well. good job
i can communicate fully with anyone who bothers to learn english
the type of people who dont learn english dont matter so i see no point in being able to communicate with them beyond the way i might communicate with a dog

[rasputin]

that i should learn turkish, which you apparently concede is useless, for recreational purposes?
I never said you should learn Turkish, you dolt, and never conceded it was useless. Your comprehension skills are laughable. I'm making a pretty simple point that learning a different language isn't merely about how useful that particular language is. You're ignorant and trying to pass it off as cleverness or something.

[Already_Taken]

no he's being sarcastic and trying to troll but he doesn't realize he's just being ironic

[rasputin]

whose alt is he? I have an idea but I'm not too sure

[die of starvation]

'm making a pretty simple point that learning a different language isn't merely about how useful that particular language is
why would i learn a language that's useless

[ridethelib]

tway

[rasputin]

yeah I don't know names, username?

why would i learn a language that's useless
good post

[die of starvation]

then answer the question

[rasputin]

I never said any language was useless. Learn to read, then perhaps I'll dignify your retarded question with an answer.

[die of starvation]

the question is why would i want to learn a language that's useless

if the answer is 'you wouldn't'
then this false

learning a different language isn't merely about how useful that particular language is

therefore in order for you to not contradict yourself
you must think that it's worthwhile to learn a useless language (which is self defeating and stupid but so is your argument)

it's depressing that i had to spell that out for you but i suppose english isnt your first language so it's ok

[rasputin]

You're the only one who thinks a language other than English is useless. Therefore there's no contradiction. And even if we were talking about a useless language, learning it isn't necessarily self-defeating or stupid.

It's depressing I had to spell that out for you but I suppose you are American so it's okay.

[SkaRobotArmy]

turkish is useful if you want to live in turkey. or germany.

i live in canada but am learning german out of interest and because i like to travel in europe. it is also useful at work as we deal with a few german distributors.

[rasputin]

ich auch

[Iskandar]

If a language's worth is quantified by the number of people you can talk with it, about 90% of languages are totally useless in that respect. But doing so fails to consider the value a language has to its community of speakers. It's one of the most fundamental ways of distinguishing their group from everyone else.

[beso negro]

no tway's right life is too short to learn a language that you will never use

[ridethelib]

tway's just a trolling asshole who makes ridiculously narrow minded statements to rile everyone up

[Iskandar]

no tway's right life is too short to learn a language that you will never useWe're not talking about that though. It's a red herring.

We're talking about whether Turkish is useful. It may not be useful to you, me or Tway but it's very useful for a Turkish person like rasputin. Useful is subjective. I have no use for Spanish at the moment, but if I were travelling to Latin America for an extended period I'd trying like hell to learn it.

[beso negro]

100+ million people in the world speak turkish of course it is useful for those traveling to turkey or wherever they speak it

[Iskandar]

That's exactly what I mean.

Rasputin is Turkish and (I assume) has a Turkish-speaking family and probably some Turkish friends, so it's useful for him. The same goes (I'm assuming) for you and Spanish.

[rasputin]

no tway's right life is too short to learn a language that you will never use
you're just as thick as tway.

the point i was trying to make is that people don't always learn a language because they're going to use it, it might simply because they're interested in it. I'm learning german because yes, I like the language and I do plan to live in german speaking environments for some portion of my life, but i'm also beginning russian, and want to learn arabic, and that's merely because both languages fascinates me. i'm teaching myself the alphabet of a completely defunct ancient turkic language because it interests me, not because i ever plan on going back in time and communicating with my brethren.

[die of starvation]

being interested in something that is useless to you is completely irrational and probably not even possible

You're the only one who thinks a language other than English is useless. Therefore there's no contradiction.

yes there is
for the reasons i already explained
which you at no point have even begun to address

And even if we were talking about a useless language, learning it isn't necessarily self-defeating or stupid.

how is that possible explain

100+ million people in the world speak turkish of course it is useful for those traveling to turkey or wherever they speak it
learning a presumably complicated language so you can chat with the natives on a 2 week vacation is ridiculous waste of time and spending more than 2 weeks in turkey is just a bad idea
if you have something really important to do and it's for some unfathomable reason not done in english you can hire a translator

[rasputin]

the point i was trying to make is that people don't always learn a language because they're going to use it, it might simply because they're interested in it. I'm learning german because yes, I like the language and I do plan to live in german speaking environments for some portion of my life, but i'm also beginning russian, and want to learn arabic, and that's merely because both languages fascinates me. i'm teaching myself the alphabet of a completely defunct ancient turkic language because it interests me, not because i ever plan on going back in time and communicating with my brethren.

you've got to be most retarded troll i've ever come across

[Iskandar]

I feel obligated to warn you that both Russian and Arabic are extremely difficult and you'll properly be "learning" them your whole life in a way. But if you're serious about learning them, don't let that stop you. They are both very useful.

[rasputin]

Yeah I know how difficult they are. My goal isn't to master them but at least have an understanding, but I'm just speculating, I may end up liking one or both of them more than German and focus on it/them. And it's not like I'm inexperienced with languages completely foreign to English.

[die of starvation]

you've got to be most retarded troll i've ever come across

being interested in something that is useless to you is completely irrational and probably not even possible

im not trolling im being completely earnest i think your native language is of no value

[Iskandar]

It doesn't matter what you think because it's his language, not yours.

[rasputin]

i like how you just forced your way into the conversation and immediately made it about you. nobody cares what you think.

edit: beaten

[die of starvation]

i wanted to know how many turkish speakers actually matter
you made it about me when you failed to understand my simple question

[McP3000]

i wanna rock n roll all night

[Iskandar]

Or as they say in Turkey, "rök ve röll".
i wanted to know how many turkish speakers actually matter
you made it about me when you failed to understand my simple questionThat's irrelevant to whether Turkish matters to its speakers.

[rasputin]

I think we can just say that whatever he thinks is irrelevant. This is why I don't post in PWNI as much as I'd like, 2 or 3 good users and the rest are all trolling retards.

[Iskandar]

Hey he's the only one trolling so far.

[die of starvation]

sure it 'matters' to them although matters probably isnt a strong enough word to describe somebody's native language but that couldn't be less relevant to whether it's worthwhile to learn

ps im not a troll im just smarter than you

[rasputin]

Hey he's the only one trolling so far.
I was just talking in general, not of the current predicament.
sure it 'matters' to them although matters probably isnt a strong enough word to describe somebody's native language but that couldn't be less relevant to whether it's worthwhile to learn
No one ever asked you to learn any languages, stop pulling stuff out of your arse.

[Smokey D]

ps im not a troll im just smarter than youStop being annoying.

[die of starvation]

im not just saying i dont want to learn turkish i am saying it is bad for anyone to learn turkish

Stop being annoying.
im not about to tolerate being called a troll

[rasputin]

im not just saying i dont want to learn turkish i am saying it is bad for anyone to learn turkish
and i'm saying you're wrong so stfu

[Smokey D]

im not about to tolerate being called a troll

And I'm not prepared to tolerate you being annoying. This is your warning.

[die of starvation]

being annoying meaning saying im smart
or being annoying meaning saying it's a bad idea to learn turkish

and i'm saying you're wrong so stfu
try saying 'you're wrong because ...'

[Smokey D]

being annoying meaning saying im smart
or being annoying meaning saying it's a bad idea to learn turkish

It's mainly the unreasonable antagonism you've got going on.

[rasputin]

because I know it for a fact. You'd be surprised how many people have asked me if my mum can teach them Turkish.

[Iskandar]

im not just saying i dont want to learn turkish i am saying it is bad for anyone to learn turkishWhat about people who can use it for something. Eg. they're travelling to Turkey, they know some Turkish people or they just are dying to read Aşık Veysel Şatıroğlu in the original.
im not about to tolerate being called a trollStop trolling and no one will.

[die of starvation]

because I know it for a fact. You'd be surprised how many people have asked me if my mum can teach them Turkish.

that doesn't make it a good idea that just means people want to do it....

What about people who can use it for something. Eg. they're travelling to Turkey, they know some Turkish people or they just are dying to read Aşık Veysel Şatıroğlu in the original.
assuming it's not a lot easier than any other language it's ridiculously inefficient to do that when much more practical options exist to translate for you
Stop trolling and no one will.
well that's bullshit

[Mr. Ron]

sup guys

[Iskandar]

Learning some Turkish would be a great idea if you were going to Turkey.

[rasputin]

or they just are dying to read Aşık Veysel Şatıroğlu in the original.
They'd have to learn Turkish to be honest, I find that Turkish poetry really does not translate well into English.

[Smokey D]

Your whole argument is premised on the idea that anyone you want to talk to will be able to speak English and if they don't speak English then they aren't worth talking to.

You've made a whole lot of assumptions about value and reason for action which aren't self-evident.

[Iskandar]

They'd have to learn Turkish to be honest, I find that Turkish poetry really does not translate well into English.I read a poem of his (which is how I knew about him) and it sounded nice in translation but then I can't read the original. Either way the original is always bound to be better for any translated work.
Your whole argument is premised on the idea that anyone you want to talk to will be able to speak English and if they don't speak English then they aren't worth talking to.Not to mention that people will always prefer speaking in English rather than their native language.

[die of starvation]

Your whole argument is premised on the idea that anyone you want to talk to will be able to speak English and if they don't speak English then they aren't worth talking to.

You've made a whole lot of assumptions about value and reason for action which aren't self-evident.
if they can't speak english and i still have to talk to them for whatever reason i would then get a translator which would be several thousand times easier than learning a language

Not to mention that people will always prefer speaking in English rather than their native language.
they could use the practice if they aren't as comfortable with english. it's for their own good

[Smokey D]

if they can't speak english and i still have to talk to them for whatever reason i would then get a translator which would be several thousand times easier than learning a language


Okay but you're still making unsubstantiated about why a person might want to learn a language.

[Mr. Ron]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen. please. Why quarrel amongst ourselves about different languages when the language of love is the only one that is universally spoken <3333

[rasputin]

I read a poem of his (which is how I knew about him) and it sounded nice in translation but then I can't read the original. Either way the original is always bound to be better for any translated work.
Yeah that's true, original will always be better, but for some reason translated Turkish poetry really irks me, it's always incredibly lame and ineffectual. I remember first reading some Turkish poetry (it was translated) and I wondered how this was considered famous at all. I changed my mind once reading it in its original form.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/a-sad-state-of-freedom/
This is a piece from Nazim Hikmet, probably considered Turkey's greatest poet, and it's very tame translated.

Gentlemen, Gentlemen. please. Why quarrel amongst ourselves about different languages when the language of love is the only one that is universally spoken <3333
haha

[die of starvation]

Okay but you're still making unsubstantiated about why a person might want to learn a language.
ok like what

[Smokey D]

ok like what

That the only reason a person might want to learn a language is to talk to important people, for example.

[Iskandar]

if they can't speak english and i still have to talk to them for whatever reason i would then get a translator which would be several thousand times easier than learning a languageEr do you know how much is spent in translation costs yearly. It's a major headache for every government especially the EU.

Learning a language can be done quite cheaply.

[die of starvation]

that's a gross waste of energy and resources compared to alternatives that make sense

Er do you know how much is spent in translation costs yearly. It's a major headache for every government especially the EU.

Learning a language can be done quite cheaply.
there's nothing cheap about hundreds or thousands of hours spent studying and practicing
especially compared to whatever fees a translator might charge

[Iskandar]

Did you not read my post where I just said hiring translators is a gross waste of resources.

Talking to native speakers daily would be making use of the most effective learning method (immersion) for virtually nothing.

[die of starvation]

the dropper: opportunity costs

[Iskandar]

You're assuming the opportunity cost of learning a language is high because you're assuming it's difficult. That's because you've never learned another language and you live in a more or less monolingual environment.

It's quite easy to learn a language when you're exposed to it constantly (like say if you travelled to Turkey) which is why you had no problem learning English as a child.

[die of starvation]

the opportunity cost of going to turkey long enough to become fluent by immersion would vary between astronomical and tremendous depending on the person and on whether their occupation can be done remotely

[Smokey D]

More to the point, there are plenty of other reasons you might want to learn a language.

[Mr. Ron]

http://i42.tinypic.com/8we8ly.jpg

[Iskandar]

the opportunity cost of going to turkey long enough to become fluent by immersion would vary between astronomical and tremendous depending on the person and on whether their occupation can be done remotelyAny situation where you can interact with native speakers is sufficient. Living in Turkey is just the most obvious example.

[die of starvation]

More to the point, there are plenty of other reasons you might want to learn a language.
in the vast majority of cases they'll be outweighed by the reasons not to

Any situation where you can interact with native speakers is sufficient. Living in Turkey is just the most obvious example.
how can that qualify as immersion

regardless we're basically down to you saying it's easy to learn a language. i think most people know that's not the case because if it were translators would have a very low value skill and would be paid trivially which isn't the case as you've pointed out

[rasputin]

More to the point, there are plenty of other reasons you might want to learn a language.
Case in point.

[Iskandar]

Not really.

Let's say you make some Turkish friends. You hang around them and they converse in Turkish sometimes. You want to know what the hell they're saying and they would be more comfortable speaking in their native language. You pick up some Turkish. Every wins.

Or say you deal with a lot of Turkish immigrants for you job, who have poor English.

Everybody's situation will be different and whether they should or should not learn any given language depends on what they do.

[rasputin]

regardless we're basically down to you saying it's easy to learn a language. i think most people know that's not the case because if it were translators would have a very low value skill and would be paid trivially which isn't the case as you've pointed out
It is easy to learn a language, it's hard to master one. Although I don't see how you can make any claims about how easy or hard it is seeing as you speak only one.

[Mr. Ron]

Yeah but English is the only language that really matters now, lets be honest.

[die of starvation]

It is easy to learn a language, it's hard to master one. Although I don't see how you can make any claims about how easy or hard it is seeing as you speak only one.

because if it were translators would have a very low value skill and would be paid trivially which isn't the case as you've pointed out
that's how i can make the claim it's right there in the thing you quoted

i also dont get your distinction between learn and master
if you can't understand it in a normal speaking setting and speak at least with an intelligible accent you havent got much

[Smokey D]

in the vast majority of cases they'll be outweighed by the reasons not to


(Implicitly assuming that you can quantify benefit in this way and that the person making the decision has the correct utilitarian calculus).


i also dont get your distinction between learn and master
if you can't understand it in a normal speaking setting and speak at least with an intelligible accent you havent got much

A person who attempts to apply grammatical rules logically but where a native speaker knows they are don't apply has learned the basics of a language without mastering its intricacies.

[Mr. Ron]

smokey what does that even mean lol

[Iskandar]

Learning basic fluency is much easier than mastering every nuance of a language. That's obvious. You were fluent or at least competent in English before you were five even though you didn't fully master it until years later.
Yeah but English is the only language that really matters now, lets be honest.No.

As long as there are native speakers of a language, it matters, if only to them.
smokey what does that even mean lol"Can people talk about how much something means to others?"

[Mr. Ron]

Learning basic fluency is much easier than mastering every nuance of a language. That's obvious. You were fluent or at least competent in English before you were five even though you didn't fully master it until years later.
No.

As long as there are native speakers of a language, it matters, if only to them.
"Can people talk about how much something means to others?"
I'm mean it in a business/money/professional way.

[rasputin]

i also dont get your distinction between learn and master
if you can't understand it in a normal speaking setting and speak at least with an intelligible accent you havent got much
I understand German in a normal speaking setting and speak with more than an intelligible accent, but I've not in any way mastered the language. I haven't even mastered Turkish because I don't use it as much as I'd like to. There's a huge difference between being able to speak and understand a language and fully mastering it.

[die of starvation]

(Implicitly assuming that you can quantify benefit in this way and that the person making the decision has the correct utilitarian calculus).

yeah

A person who attempts to apply grammatical rules logically but where a native speaker knows they are don't apply has learned the basics of a language without mastering its intricacies.
Learning basic fluency is much easier than mastering every nuance of a language. That's obvious. You were fluent or at least competent in English before you were five even though you didn't fully master it until years later.
I understand German in a normal speaking setting and speak with more than an intelligible accent, but I've not in any way mastered the language. I haven't even mastered Turkish because I don't use it as much as I'd like to. There's a huge difference between being able to speak and understand a language and fully mastering it.
well i would then disagree that getting to that point is easy while affirming my contention that if you can only do this you haven't got much

[die of starvation]

i just saw smokey d linked to wikipedia on holodomor in another thread and i suddenly wanted to make a off color remark in reference to my username and then i realized that's the type of thing l33t hax0r (w/e) would do and i felt utterly filthy

[Iskandar]

Good. We're making progress.
I'm mean it in a business/money/professional way.English is arguably the most useful language in this area but that doesn't mean lots of others aren't useful.

I reckon (depending on the part of the world you invest in) Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, German, Russian and Arabic are all pretty damned useful, and lots more would be useful in the country where they're spoken, eg. Thai in Thailand.
well i would then disagree that getting to that point is easy You've never done it because you don't live in a country where you'd have the opportunity to.

[die of starvation]

Good. We're making progress.
what do you mean making progress
the impulse to make a leet haxxor style schadenfreude joke and the impulse to disagree for the sake of disagreeing are different and i normally lack the schadenfreude one

You've never done it because you don't live in a country where you'd have the opportunity to.
what

[Iskandar]

What are you basing your claim on (that achieving basic fluency is difficult) when you've never done it.

[die of starvation]

the time and effort people expend into doing it

also that's the only reasonable basis my personal experience with it (or any other task) would be anecdotal and only relevant as another data point

[Iskandar]

the time and effort people expend into doing it

also that's the only reasonable basis my personal experience with it (or any other task) would be anecdotal and only relevant as another data pointYou can't make bald statements about the time and effort required when it varies greatly by person.

At least not any more than you can for the difficulties associated with finding and hiring a competent translator.

[Already_Taken]

tway is obviously too retarded to learn another language and justifies it with his crap reasoning. i know some bilingual people that are straight up retards.

tway you're useless ****ing scum get off my planet.

[Iskandar]

He's not stupid. I think he's just too lazy.

[SkaRobotArmy]

you're just as thick as tway.

the point i was trying to make is that people don't always learn a language because they're going to use it, it might simply because they're interested in it. I'm learning german because yes, I like the language and I do plan to live in german speaking environments for some portion of my life, but i'm also beginning russian, and want to learn arabic, and that's merely because both languages fascinates me. i'm teaching myself the alphabet of a completely defunct ancient turkic language because it interests me, not because i ever plan on going back in time and communicating with my brethren.

good luck man, in german there are 4 different cases, in russian they have 11!! f that. but props for trying all that, language is fascinating.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

He's not stupid. I think he's just too lazy.
nah his opinion on language should mean nothing to either of you

[Iskandar]

Well, his opinion is wrong.
good luck man, in german there are 4 different cases, in russian they have 11!! f that. but props for trying all that, language is fascinating.People seem to have this idea that the difficulty of a language is predicated on how many cases it has.

I think this is silly. Sure, it's hard to get used to case marking if your native language has none, but once you get used to how they work it doesn't really matter how many there are. Russian is hard for lots of other reasons than its case system.

On the other hand Chinese has no cases and pretty much no grammar whatsoever yet it's one of the hardest languages there is.

[SkaRobotArmy]

Well, his opinion is wrong.
People seem to have this idea that the difficulty of a language is predicated on how many cases it has.


because there is a lot more to learn, understand, and get used to, so yes, more difficult.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

because there is a lot more to learn, understand, and get used to, so yes, more difficult.
thats not why there is more to learn, understand, and get used to

[Iskandar]

because there is a lot more to learn, understand, and get used to, so yes, more difficult.My argument was that cases are only part of what makes a language hard.

Not to get technical but Russian has a verb system based on aspect (complete and incomplete actions instead of the time-based system of past, present future) and a different writing system, and a very large vocabulary of words which for the most part are nothing like their English cognates.

Compared with the relatively minor task of figuring out how cases work, that's a huge burden on the memory and it's all these factors together that make Russian hard for an English speaker.

But it's a mistake to say Russian has a more complicated grammar than English or anything other language. If a Russian learned Chinese, he would find that type of position-based grammar very difficult because it's not the way his native language works. The complexity is just in different places.

[Already_Taken]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/28/low.flying.plane/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

a photo op? LOL

[Iskandar]

Is this for real.

That's about the stupidest decision I've ever heard of.

[rasputin]

good luck man, in german there are 4 different cases, in russian they have 11!! f that. but props for trying all that, language is fascinating.
Are you sure? I was under the impression it had 6 main cases. Turkish has 6 cases anyway, although I don't think they're the same ones as in Russian (other than the usual NOM/ACC/DAT and GEN)


edit: just checked wiki, apparently the other two in Russian are Instrumental and Prepositional, which I've never encountered before. The other two in Turkish are Ablative and Locative.

[Iskandar]

Are you sure? I was under the impression it had 6 main cases. Turkish has 6 cases anyway, although I don't think they're the same ones as in Russian (other than the usual NOM/ACC/DAT and GEN)


edit: just checked wiki, apparently the other two in Russian are Instrumental and Prepositional, which I've never encountered before. The other two in Turkish are Ablative and Locative.This setup is common in Slavic languages. Polish for example has nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, instrumental and locative as well as vocative.

I don't know what prepositional means though.

[Der Übermensch]

I don't know what prepositional means though.
Same as ablative possibly?

[Iskandar]

Doubt it. Ablative means movement from a place, right?

[Der Übermensch]

Maybe? All I remember is that it was used for prepositional phrases when I took Latin.

[Iskandar]

That's because it corresponds to a preposition in English, as do most cases.

Also eww Latin.

[ridethelib]

Oculus sinister.

[Iskandar]

Evil eye.

[ridethelib]

Left eye actually.

[Smokey D]

Also eww Latin.

I never got your arbitrary dislike of dead languages. A dead language like Latin is potentially more useful than many living languages but not 2 pages ago you were hassling Tway for dismissing them. And also, as you extensively covered, usefulness in the shallow sense of the word shouldn't be our only concern when deciding whether or not to learn a language.

[Iskandar]

I never got your arbitrary dislike of dead languages. A dead language like Latin is potentially more useful than many living languages but not 2 pages ago you were hassling Tway for dismissing them.It's not arbitrary. It's that Latin is useless and little more than a mark of class snobbery.

With living languages, even those with very few speakers, you can talk to others. With Latin or Ancient Greek or something you can't do anything but read works which all have translations anyway.
And also, as you extensively covered, usefulness in the shallow sense of the word shouldn't be our only concern when deciding whether or not to learn a language.You're misrepresenting my argument. I said that the notion of usefulness varies between people. Turkish is not useful to Tway, but it is very useful for rasputin who is an ethnic Turk and can use it to talk to his family. Latin is undoubtedly very useful for classicists, but there's no real reason for you or I to know it. I abhor the thought of people being forced to study Latin up until the 20th century when it had long since ceased to be useful just because one's education wasn't considered complete without it. I dislike it because of its classist and elitest associations.

If learning Latin gives you pleasure, by all means go for it, but that's not why most people learned it historically. It was useful once. It isn't now.

[ridethelib]

It's still interesting to see the influences of the ancient languages on modern languages.

[Smokey D]

It's not arbitrary. It's that Latin is useless and little more than a mark of class snobbery.

No more so than learning a dying aboriginal language or anything.


With living languages, even those with very few speakers, you can talk to others. With Latin or Ancient Greek or something you can't do anything but read works which all have translations anyway.

I can talk to people in Latin too.

And it's not like talking to people is the only reason I might want to learn a language.

If learning Latin gives you pleasure, by all means go for it, but that's not why most people learned it historically. It was useful once. It isn't now.

It's still useful. Just because it doesn't serve as an international language doesn't make it useless anymore than the obscurity of a part of history or literature makes learning about it useless.

[ridethelib]

Also, Latin is still very relevant in the medical world.

[Smokey D]

I wouldn't say that.

[ridethelib]

From all the Anatomy and medical education I've been receiving, I've noted a lot of usage of Latin words/derivations.

[Iskandar]

No more so than learning a dying aboriginal language or anything.That's a case of trying to revive the language for the people to whom it matters a lot.

If you're a white person with no interest in aboriginal culture and you learn a moribund language, you're wasting your time.
I can talk to people in Latin too.Who, historical re-enactment nerds? Overeducated snobs?
And it's not like talking to people is the only reason I might want to learn a language.No but it's the most pressing.
It's still useful. Just because it doesn't serve as an international language doesn't make it useless anymore than the obscurity of a part of history or literature makes learning about it useless.There are far more useful languages we could be learning so unless you have a reason to there's no point in learning Latin.
From all the Anatomy and medical education I've been receiving, I've noted a lot of usage of Latin words/derivations.Lots of English words are, either directly or via French.

[Smokey D]

From all the Anatomy and medical education I've been receiving, I've noted a lot of usage of Latin words/derivations.

Well yeah but they're just names. You're not really using Latin.


You're misrepresenting my argument. I said that the notion of usefulness varies between people. Turkish is not useful to Tway, but it is very useful for rasputin who is an ethnic Turk and can use it to talk to his family. Latin is undoubtedly very useful for classicists, but there's no real reason for you or I to know it. I abhor the thought of people being forced to study Latin up until the 20th century when it had long since ceased to be useful just because one's education wasn't considered complete without it. I dislike it because of its classist and elitest associations.

So you're just hating on your social betters.

Class warfare!


That's a case of trying to revive the language for the people to whom it matters a lot.

Their opinions are of no more obvious import than classicists who think Latin should be preserved.


Who, historical re-enactment nerds? Overeducated snobs?

Quiet, pleb.

No but it's the most pressing.

Debatable, but even if true, so what?

There are far more useful languages we could be learning so unless you have a reason to there's no point in learning Latin.

Begging the question.

[Iskandar]

So you're just hating on your social betters.

Class warfare!People are better than me because they know a dead language associated with classical times.
Their opinions are of no more obvious import than classicists who think Latin should be preserved.Preserving a dying language is important because once they die it's nearly impossible to revive them. Latin's already dead.
Quiet, pleb.You're such a bourgeois.
Debatable, but even if true, so what?The usefulness of a language is determined by how much opportunity you have to use it. Latin is useful for one thing: reading stuff which is all translated anyway. Ergo, it's useless.
Begging the question.The question is why should the average person learn Latin as opposed to say Thai.

[Smokey D]

People are better than me because they know a dead language associated with classical times.

Manifestly so.

Preserving a dying language is important because once they die it's nearly impossible to revive them. Latin's already dead.

That's only true if its further true that preserving languages is worthy at all. I see no more pressing reason to conclude that than to conclude that Latin is worthy of preservation/restoration.


You're such a bourgeois.

I prefer Patrician.


The usefulness of a language is determined by how much opportunity you have to use it.

No it's not.


Latin is useful for one thing: reading stuff which is all translated anyway. Ergo, it's useless.

Who says that's the only use Latin has.


The question is why should the average person learn Latin as opposed to say Thai.

Well no, you said "so unless you have a reason to there's no point in learning Latin".

The conclusion there's no point in learning Latin is only sustainable if there is no reason to learn Latin hence you have begged the question.

[Iskandar]

Manifestly so.What's Latin for "you're trolling me."
That's only true if its further true that preserving languages is worthy at all. I see no more pressing reason to conclude that than to conclude that Latin is worthy of preservation/restoration.
Latin doesn't have a community of speakers anymore. Native Americans still do. Let me know when we discover a remnant of the Romans somewhere.
I prefer Patrician.I am Spartacus.
No it's not.It patently is. Usefulness isn't marginal utility.
Who says that's the only use Latin has.Well it's not used for conversing or writing anymore except by a tiny minority of people who could have spent their time learning a language which is used by millions of people for precisely these purposes.

[Smokey D]

Latin doesn't have a community of speakers anymore. Native Americans still do. Let me know when we discover a remnant of the Romans somewhere.

Okay yeah but you still haven't provided me with a reason to think that learning Cherokee or whatever is more useful than learning Latin or Greek. A fact is not in itself a reason.


It patently is. Usefulness isn't marginal utility.

Well I suppose it depends on what you mean by opportunity you have to use it. there are conceivably lots of times you might want to use Latin even if you weren't using it to read Ovid or converse in the senate.

Well it's not used for conversing or writing anymore except by a tiny minority of people who could have spent their time learning a language which is used by millions of people for precisely these purposes.

Yeah and that's still not a reason not to learn Latin.

[Iskandar]

Okay yeah but you still haven't provided me with a reason to think that learning Cherokee or whatever is more useful than learning Latin or Greek. A fact is not in itself a reason.I never said those languages were useful. I said they're useful to the people who speak them. Native Americans want to retain their languages and other aspects of their cultures because they have value to them, and they want to pass them on. They have little value to others outside the group.

Likewise Latin isn't useful to people who don't ever need to understand it.
Well I suppose it depends on what you mean by opportunity you have to use it. there are conceivably lots of times you might want to use Latin even if you weren't using it to read Ovid or converse in the senate.When? Unless you know somebody who knows it (and most people don't).
Yeah and that's still not a reason not to learn Latin.Why should anyone learn a language they're not going to use.

I mean, they may derive pleasure from it, but I doubt any more than a tiny minority of people learns languages just for the hell of it.

[Smokey D]

I never said those languages were useful. I said they're useful to the people who speak them. Native Americans want to retain their languages and other aspects of their cultures because they have value to them, and they want to pass them on. They have little value to others outside the group.

Agreed.

Likewise Latin isn't useful to people who don't ever need to understand it.

But again you're begging the question.

It's not an argument to say that Latin isn't useful to people who don't ever need to understand it because the conclusion can only be sustained if people will never need to use it is also a premise.


When? Unless you know somebody who knows it (and most people don't).

Well aside from the possibility that learning anything is beneficial (knowledge is an end in itself), there plenty of academic reasons you might want to learn Latin.

Why should anyone learn a language they're not going to use.

Question begging.


I mean, they may derive pleasure from it, but I doubt any more than a tiny minority of people learns languages just for the hell of it.

Okay.

[Iskandar]

But again you're begging the question.

It's not an argument to say that Latin isn't useful to people who don't ever need to understand it because the conclusion can only be sustained if people will never need to use it is also a premise.Latin isn't useful because most people will never need it.
Well aside from the possibility that learning anything is beneficial (knowledge is an end in itself), there plenty of academic reasons you might want to learn Latin.Like what though. Everything is in English now.

It's not like studying Classical Chinese or Tamil or something where primary sources may not have translations.

[Smokey D]

Latin isn't useful because most people will never need it.

I disagree.

Like what though. Everything is in English now.


I dunno. Maybe if you wanted to understand the linguistic relationship between certain languages or if you wanted to read stuff in the original or wanted to become a historian of a certain period or whatever.


It's not like studying Classical Chinese or Tamil or something where primary sources may not have translations.

Irrelevant.

[Iskandar]

I disagree.What use does a blue-collar worker have for Latin.

Your bourgeois assumptions shine through.
I dunno. Maybe if you wanted to understand the linguistic relationship between certain languages or if you wanted to read stuff in the original or wanted to become a historian of a certain period or whatever.Most people don't want to do these things.

[Smokey D]

What use does a blue-collar worker have for Latin.

Why on earth should we restrict our consideration of what's important to what a bunch of plebs do?

Your bourgeois assumptions shine through.

I don't hide them.

Most people don't want to do these things.

Okay well then they shouldn't study Latin. But it's not irrational for the people who do want those things to study it. And that's assuming that Latin isn't valuable as an intellectual pursuit in its own right.

[Iskandar]

Why on earth should we restrict our consideration of what's important to what a bunch of plebs do?Elitest.
I don't hide them.De gustibus non est disputandum.
Okay well then they shouldn't study Latin. But it's not irrational for the people who do want those things to study it.My argument is that most people don't need to study Latin and thus its status is undeserved. And thus I don't care for it.
And that's assuming that Latin isn't valuable as an intellectual pursuit in its own right.No better than any other language.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

wtf

[Iskandar]

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

[SkaRobotArmy]

learning Latin first makes it much easier to learn Spanish, French, Italian and English.
kind of a roundabout way of doing things, but many people in Germany still are required to learn it schools for more or less that reason.

also, it is important in many fields of work (read: science).

[Iskandar]

Learning any Romance language makes learning others easy, and the same for any language family.

In fact learning Spanish or something is probably better in that regard than Latin because it would have a more similar grammar to modern Romance languages, all of which have changed significantly from Latin.
also, it is important in many fields of work (read: science).Not nearly as important as English or even German.

[rasputin]

Doubt it. Ablative means movement from a place, right?
Yes, the case signifies from where an object has come.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

wtf
i liked this part

[PunkItUp]

does anyone remember user rearviewmirror? used to post in PNWI around four years back? is this user still around under another username?

just had a thought and some posting i did with this user came to mind and got me wondering

thats all

[beso negro]

also, it is important in many fields of work (read: science).

what are you talking about

[die of starvation]

You can't make bald statements about the time and effort required when it varies greatly by person.

At least not any more than you can for the difficulties associated with finding and hiring a competent translator.
if it was easier to learn a language than hire a translator people would learn languages instead and translators would be out of work

a hypothetical savant who finds it easier to learn turkish than to get a contact to refer them to a translator doesnt have any impact on real people

[Smokey D]

Elitest.
There's nothing wrong with being elite.

Although to be fair I said we shouldn't limit ourselves to working class concerns not that we shouldn't take them into consideration.

Not that working class people can't or shouldn't learn Latin.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

Concerning tastes which are not in dispute?

My argument is that most people don't need to study Latin and thus its status is undeserved.

What status.
And thus I don't care for it.

That's a dumb reason.

No better than any other language.

Yeah and.

[Mr. Ron]

No I think you made it pretty clear that you hate the working class, Smokey.

[Iskandar]

what are you talking aboutMaybe in 1650.
does anyone remember user rearviewmirror? used to post in PNWI around four years back? is this user still around under another username?I think I vaguely do. I don't know if they're still around though.

[Iskandar]

There's nothing wrong with being elite.Elitest.
Although to be fair I said we shouldn't limit ourselves to working class concerns not that we shouldn't take them into consideration.

Not that working class people can't or shouldn't learn Latin.What possible use could they have for it. Certainly not for their jobs.
Concerning tastes which are not in dispute?"There's no accounting for taste."

You need to brush up on your Latin so you can get classical references made by educated white males in conservation.
What status.Prestigious.
That's a dumb reason.Disliking elitism isn't dumb.
Yeah and.Tu quoque.
if it was easier to learn a language than hire a translator people would learn languages instead and translators would be out of workNo, more like people hire translators because they need them sooner than the time it takes to learn a language.

[Wario Mario]

i checked my hotmail for the first time in months and i had a couple emails in there from stormfront from when i signed up to screw with them

they had a video contest for their white pride world wide day and some of these are just painfully stupid

for example, here's the winner:

http://www.sfradiofiles.com/Video/Housing%20Crisis.html

you can find more here

http://www.wpww.com/FestivalEntries.htm

[mph4ever]

i checked my hotmail for the first time in months and i had a couple emails in there from stormfront from when i signed up to screw with them

they had a video contest for their white pride world wide day and some of these are just painfully stupid

for example, here's the winner:

http://www.sfradiofiles.com/Video/Housing%20Crisis.html

you can find more here

http://www.wpww.com/FestivalEntries.htm

hahahaha brilliant. the beginning was like what i would expect the intro to the new wolfenstein game to be

[Iskandar]

We meet again at last.

[mph4ever]

is there something you want to tell me?

[Iskandar]

J Powers 67.42.149.105 [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
Wario Mario 67.42.149.105 [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]

[mph4ever]

the power of the moderator, dangerous in the wrong hands

[Iskandar]

You haven't seen me use it yet.

[Wario Mario]

i would demand that you delete my IP from that post, but since i use privoxy it doesn't really matter

[Iskandar]

You're really not in a position to demand anything as you learned a few months ago.

[mph4ever]

You haven't seen me use it yet.

i'll just grab the popcorn

[Wario Mario]

You're really not in a position to demand anything as you learned a few months ago.

as i recall, a few months ago i nearly ruined this place

i think if i really wanted, i could demand anything i want

lucky for you i don't care enough to do it again

[Iskandar]

I'm terrified. If you really wanted to, you could post shock images.

It's good to know you're so benevolent.

[Wario Mario]

yeah because that was all that happened

don't bend over backwards to flex your ego kiddo

[Iskandar]

Oh, I forgot. You got Chad to help you make a bunch of bots because you're a script kiddie.

[Wario Mario]

you can't play the game if you don't know the rules :)

if you're trying to rile me up you fail

your sad little domineering attitude is what caused the problem in the first place, so it would probably be better if you just stopped trying to one up me and shut up

put me on your ignore list if you don't like me

sadly, i don't have that option

[Iskandar]

I don't have to. You do it to yourself.

[mph4ever]

so i'm talking to this bloke and he tells me that his wifes sister is married to his son and both couples have kids

so his sons sister in law is also his sons kids step grandmother and aunt and his own wife

his son is an uncle to his kids as well as being a step brother

what the **** do these people put on greeting cards or do they just buy 3 to cover all issues

this is the most head wrecking piece of information anyone has ever disclosed to me

[JohnXDoe3]

i checked my hotmail for the first time in months and i had a couple emails in there from stormfront from when i signed up to screw with them

they had a video contest for their white pride world wide day and some of these are just painfully stupid

for example, here's the winner:

http://www.sfradiofiles.com/Video/Housing%20Crisis.html

you can find more here

http://www.wpww.com/FestivalEntries.htm
lol racists