PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[Dave de Sylvia]

It's called my house.

[siva_chair]

Dave I'm gonna tell your mother. Does she know you are pulling these shenanigans?

[Dave de Sylvia]

I ain't pulling anybody's shenanigans.

[siva_chair]

o ok.

tell your ma I said hi.

[Knifeboy]

Or, I could enter into some voluntary contract with you and buy my punishment off (which you would obviously be free to set the price at. Whatever monetary value you feel your leg was worth).


What if the two parties could not come to an agreement? What guidelines should the courts use to decide what should happen?

[Iskandar]

Though there would be a free market for penis, it's called male prostitution. I am all for legalizing prostitution but you can keep the male ones.

[mph4ever]

don't even talk about that, I get nervous enough trimming the hedges.

surely you don't confuse it with the hair

[Mr. Ron]

I just don't like anything sharp near Sir William

[Der Übermensch]

What if the two parties could not come to an agreement? What guidelines should the courts use to decide what should happen?

Egads! Second Treatise on Government ftw.

[mph4ever]

I just don't like anything sharp near Sir William


i hopes they files them teeth then

[McP3000]

nice grammar

[siva_chair]

What if the two parties could not come to an agreement? What guidelines should the courts use to decide what should happen?

Well beings how the maximum punishment would be you getting your leg chopped off, I'd say they are free to do that if there is no deal made. Or, you as the victim could call for a lesser punishment if you want (the maximum punishment doesn't have to be enforced, afterall, but it must be the choice of the victim).

I am all for legalizing prostitution but you can keep the male ones.

Well they aren't mine to keep. :p

[mph4ever]

nice grammar

4 real

[gregulus]

i hopes they files them teeth then

punx.

[Mr. Ron]

http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

I hear Obama wants to make it mandatory for EVERY state.

:[

[Iskandar]

Interestingly I just heard he's going to leave car emissions regulations up to the states. Cognitive dissonance anyone?

[Mr. Ron]

siva what do you think of this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR-GouAfeOg

[Der Übermensch]

http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

I hear Obama wants to make it mandatory for EVERY state.

:[

A blanket federal law would hopefully be struck down as unconstitutional.

And anyways, I buy only milsurp ammo, so it wouldn't concern me regardless.

[Mr. Ron]

It just gets me a bit nervous since there are so many anti-gun people under him right now. My dad doesn't have the time to record all that data in his shop.

[Der Übermensch]

Unless the makeup of the Court shifts (which I don't see happening for awhile), they will strike down most laws of that nature I feel, given their ruling on DV v. Heller.

[Mr. Ron]

Well, it can't get much worse in NY as I see it. So many stupid laws here.

[Iskandar]

You Americans and your gun politics.

[Mr. Ron]

ka-pow ka-pow ka-pow

[Iskandar]

I mean, it is an issue, but not one of the most important ones.

Unless you actually believe you're soon going to be engaged in a revolutionary war with the government in which case there's a lawn chair reserved for you on the Mexican border.

[Mr. Ron]

I mean, it is an issue, but not one of the most important ones.

Unless you actually believe you're soon going to be engaged in a revolutionary war with the government in which case there's a lawn chair reserved for you on the Mexican border.
I know its not the most important, but it is important to me. Its how half of my family's income is made.

[Iskandar]

In that case I can make an exception for you. Unless you're seriously considering joining the Minutemen.

[Mr. Ron]

Huh? No. Its just stupid that they make laws that are don't really do anything to keep people "safe" as the legislation says.

[Der Übermensch]

I mean, it is an issue, but not one of the most important ones.
It's the principal of blatant disregard of a amendment of the constitution that riles me.

[Iskandar]

If it weren't an amendment would you care as much?

How about the Tenth being utterly disregarded? That has much dire implications for centralization of power and stuff.

[Already_Taken]

well the tenth amendment isn't as concrete as the second.

[Iskandar]

Good point.

[Aaron]

I wish people were more spiritual. Not necessarily religious, but took more time to stop being selfish and consider the bigger picture.

[Der Übermensch]

If it weren't an amendment would you care as much?

How about the Tenth being utterly disregarded? That has much dire implications for centralization of power and stuff.

As a gun owner I would be upset, but it wouldn't be nearly as atrocious.

The 10th Amendment is very saddening too. Probably the most disregarded part of the Constitution :(

[Iskandar]

I wish people were more spiritual. Not necessarily religious, but took more time to stop being selfish and consider the bigger picture.I don't think people necessarily need to be more spiritual to do that, though that is one way.

[gregulus]

tbh i don't want alabama making decisions on civil liberties and the likes.

[Already_Taken]

As a gun owner I would be upset, but it wouldn't be nearly as atrocious.

The 10th Amendment is very saddening too. Probably the most disregarded part of the Constitution :(

you have to admit, they seem to be in a certain (or uncertain) order. right or wrong, you can certainly see the founding fathers' convitions.

[siva_chair]

siva what do you think of this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR-GouAfeOg

His points are basically legitimate, but I think he probably could have presented them in a better or smoother way, tbh.

A blanket federal law would hopefully be struck down as unconstitutional.

And anyways, I buy only milsurp ammo, so it wouldn't concern me regardless.

Except I heard that people will not be able to sell uncoded ammo, so it may very well concern you.

[Bruce E Kinesis]

I wish people were more spiritual. Not necessarily religious, but took more time to stop being selfish and consider the bigger picture.

what does that have to do with "being more spiritual"?

what does "be more spiritual" even mean?

[McP3000]

ill be a friend of you if you if i clap our uhh

[mph4ever]

I wish people were more spiritual. Not necessarily religious, but took more time to stop being selfish and consider the bigger picture.

not more moral?

edit: technology has shortened my life. hours just disappear in coversations. internet time is so fast

[gregulus]

ATTN: DBOON,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGHNcQ4zv6Y
You might appreciate this video. If you haven't seen We Jam Econo, I suggest watching it.

You may also like this: http://b10board.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=721
Bunch of pictures and old demos from various NYHC bands.

[Aaron]

not more moral?

edit: technology has shortened my life. hours just disappear in coversations. internet time is so fast

Might be the phrase I'm looking for. I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but I think morals are derived from spirituality on a personal level.

[mph4ever]

Might be the phrase I'm looking for. I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but I think morals are derived from spirituality on a personal level.

thou shalt not be flamed for this comment

yeah, most moral codes probably find their origins in some god religion.

[Aaron]

Not neccesarily god religion, but a recognition of a "something", be it fate, a deity or a high respect for the mechanics of science, external and encompassing of humanity and the world we live in. But yeah, I'm in agreement, when you get into that mindset of thinking it's much the same as religion. Stephen Hawkings, for example, could be described as having a religious respect for science.

[Iscariot]

If I ran for president in 2012 who here would vote for me?

Also, why/why not?

[Iskandar]

I don't think I would. No offense, but I don't get the perception that you'd be the person I want in a leadership position.

[Iscariot]

Keep in mind that while my hard-edged approach to life is the same on the internet as it is IRL, I'm much more sensible and open to input IRL.

[Iskandar]

Given that I only know you through the Internet, naturally my view is filtered through what I see.

[Shell]

I might vote for someone with similar viewpoints, but not you specifically.

[Iscariot]

You're just biased because I've made fun of you so many times and posted pictures of your boobs all over the place.

I'm a nice guy unless given a reason not to be normally.

[siva_chair]

If I ran for president in 2012 who here would vote for me?

Also, why/why not?

A better question is "why SHOULD I vote for you?"

You are the one that is supposed to sell yourself to me.

What platform are you running on?

[TheDarkHorse]

Siva would run on free-market then when the economy fails hed blame the government

[Iscariot]

A better question is "why SHOULD I vote for you?"

You are the one that is supposed to sell yourself to me.

What platform are you running on?

Because I'm awesome?

IDK throw me some questions.

[siva_chair]

Siva would run on free-market then when the economy fails hed blame the government

I would just abolish the government altogether.

Because I'm awesome?

IDK throw me some questions.

What would you do concerning the economy?

Taxes?

[Iskandar]

Even in this age of centralized big gummint the president doesn't have the power to abolish the entire government.

[Iscariot]

What would you do concerning the economy?

Taxes?

Well I don't know how realistic it is, but I would halt the entire bailout process and I would open a program to offer government assistance to developing small businesses. If the fat cats are going under, then that's their fault. It isn't the tax payer's responsibility to bail out big business, and it isn't the government's responsibility either. You reap what you sow, and if you sow your own failure, then eat it.

As for taxes, I would lower income and property taxes on the national level, implement a sales tax in the states that lack one to compensate, and put more money into state governments and programs by eliminating the ability to "double dip".

For example, here in the state of Oregon, someone who has worked in the state government and earned their retirement can retire, and then proceed to work in an unrelated office. So not only are they collecting tax-paid retirement, but they're earning a paycheck in their new office of employment. This costs local tax payers millions of dollars a year. Fair and equal salary should take precedence over the luxury of good connections.

[siva_chair]

Even in this age of centralized big gummint the president doesn't have the power to abolish the entire government.

Nope, but I would have a soapbox to expose it as the farce that it is.

Plus I would allow whoever desires to opt out of paying taxes and open up free market alternatives to government services.

[Shell]

I'm a nice guy unless given a reason not to be normally.

I'm sure you'd be given plenty of reasons if you were president. And you've said recently that you like to escalate situations as much as possible to a physical altercation. Idk if that would be such a great characteristic for a president to have.

Plus you won't be old enough in 2012

[Iscariot]

Well OBVIOUSLY it's different when you're dealing a situation that could lead to bombings on a nuclear scale and when you're dealing with a punk bitch who thinks they're hard.

[spitfirejunky]

Iskander busting out the Kur'an.

[Iskandar]

Iskander busting out the Kur'an.That's al-Qur'an to you. They might do it differently in Egypt, I don't know.:)

[spitfirejunky]

I couldn't care less how the infidels anglicize it.

[Sk0rpi0n]

OFFTOPIC: What happened to Reaganista? Haven't seen him post lately...

[spitfirejunky]

He periodically goes on a hiatus. Same with Egggggggggggggggggggooooooooo and a couple others.

[Mr. Ron]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,484326,00.html

[Bruce E Kinesis]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,484326,00.html

oh god winner

[siva_chair]

****ing awesome.

And the sign flashed out its warning,
In the words that it was forming.
And the signs said, the words of the prophets
Are written on the....digital roadside sign ahead.

[Mr. Ron]

lol

[DBoons Ghost]

ATTN: DBOON,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGHNcQ4zv6Y
You might appreciate this video. If you haven't seen We Jam Econo, I suggest watching it.

You may also like this: http://b10board.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=721
Bunch of pictures and old demos from various NYHC bands.

Wow thanks dude! I will watch this all now.

[McP3000]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,484326,00.html
i told you i have an awesome state

[spitfirejunky]

Austin is a great city.

[Gattsu347]

i like that the president goes on TV now.

[Mister_Che]

Honest question: Where does the notion that this is a Christian nation come from?

My fiances dad never talks about this sort of thing/politics while I'm around, but whenever my fiance responds that this is supposed to be a secular state since its inception, he responds by saying that it may not have been before but it certainly is now.

[siva_chair]

Honest question: Where does the notion that this is a Christian nation come from?

My fiances dad never talks about this sort of thing/politics while I'm around, but whenever my fiance responds that this is supposed to be a secular state since its inception, he responds by saying that it may not have been before but it certainly is now.

It comes from the fact that this country was primarily founded by a largely Christian population (many of which set up original colonies for the sake of religious freedom). Pretty much all of modern western culture stems from Judeo-Christian value systems, so this shouldn't be a big surprise.

[spitfirejunky]

And Judeo-Christian value systems stem from 1000 other value systems.

[siva_chair]

And Judeo-Christian value systems stem from 1000 other value systems.

Yes but the country wasn't founded by people who adhered to 1000 other value systems so that point is rather irrelevant.

[spitfirejunky]

Yes but the country wasn't founded by people who adhered to 1000 other value systems so that point is rather irrelevant.

Not irrelevant to the idea that this is a Christian nation.

[siva_chair]

Not irrelevant to the idea that this is a Christian nation.

Actually that is very irrelevant to that point.

[Mr. Ron]

Honest question: Where does the notion that this is a Christian nation come from?

My fiances dad never talks about this sort of thing/politics while I'm around, but whenever my fiance responds that this is supposed to be a secular state since its inception, he responds by saying that it may not have been before but it certainly is now.
Well, its a "christian nation" in the sense that there are a lot of Christians here, however thats as far as that goes. Idiots will say that the founding fathers weren't really deists blah blah the constitution was derived from the bible and the commandments blah blah. Its all crap.

[spitfirejunky]

Actually that is very irrelevant to that point.

A nation can't adhere to Christianity.

[siva_chair]

A nation can't adhere to Christianity.

It's founders (you know, the one's who set up the institutions that fostered the culture) can, which is what the whole point was. That is what is meant by "Christian nation."

[spitfirejunky]

It's founders (you know, the one's who set up the institutions that fostered the culture) can, which is what the whole point was. That is what is meant by "Christian nation."

The nation itself only retains those value systems. There's no real notion of it being "Christian" except that its founders were Christian, which says little about those value systems.

[Mr. Ron]

It's founders (you know, the one's who set up the institutions that fostered the culture) can, which is what the whole point was. That is what is meant by "Christian nation."
well good thing most of there important ones weren't Christians


in fact they were pre-Darwinian atheists as far as i'm concerned.

[siva_chair]

The nation itself only retains those value systems. There's no real notion of it being "Christian" except that its founders were Christian, which says little about those value systems.

And the fact that the majority of the population today still basically holds those value traditions and subscribe to Christianity that's a pretty important point.

well good thing most of there important ones weren't Christians

in fact they were pre-Darwinian atheists as far as i'm concerned.

Good thing most of them still adhered pretty much to the same Christian value system, even the ones that were deists.

[Mr. Ron]

And the fact that the majority of the population today still basically holds those value traditions and subscribe to Christianity that's a pretty important point.



Good thing most of them still adhered pretty much to the same Christian value system, even the ones that were deists.
I'd say that was mostly for political reasons (try being in their position and not playing service to all the Christians and see where that gets you. Look at how Paine was lambasted in the public view).

Overall however, its pretty clear that this nation was set up to be secular in governmental affairs.

[spitfirejunky]

And the fact that the majority of the population today still basically holds those value traditions and subscribe to Christianity that's a pretty important point.

Never said it wasn't. ;) If everyone in this country were Christian it wouldn't change the fact that the nation is only as Christian as its value systems.

In any case this is mostly a semantical argument.

[Mr. Ron]

If this nation's "christian" population was really observant and dedicated to their faiths this country would obviously be extremely different. Thank goodness for vanilla Christians and "lol I think there's something out there but I don't know what it is but I'll go to church anyways" crowd.

[siva_chair]

I'd say that was mostly for political reasons (try being in their position and not playing service to all the Christians and see where that gets you. Look at how Paine was lambasted in the public view).

Oh so you are a mind reading Dr. Phil with a crystal ball now, huh? :p

It is clear by his writing that Paine clearly advocated traditional Christian values. He simply rejected the divinity of Jesus and the authority of the church.

Overall however, its pretty clear that this nation was set up to be secular in governmental affairs.

Well obviously but that wasn't what the original question was concerned with.

[Mister_Che]

wat have i dun D:

[siva_chair]

Nothing. You asked a simple question and then semantics got in the way. :thumb:

[Mr. Ron]

Oh so you are a mind reading Dr. Phil with a crystal ball now, huh? :p

It is clear by his writing that Paine clearly advocated traditional Christian values. He simply rejected the divinity of Jesus and the authority of the church.



Well obviously but that wasn't what the original question was concerned with.
What exactly are "Christian values" to you?


Plus I think its pretty obvious that a good amount of American Christians do not understand their faiths. If they did they're all be living differently. God before everything and all that.

[ATC]

And the fact that the majority of the population today still basically holds those value traditions and subscribe to Christianity that's a pretty important point.



Good thing most of them still adhered pretty much to the same Christian value system, even the ones that were deists.

You of all people know that Christianity is hardly static in its values to the point of being able to ascribe "Christian values" to such a spectrum. What are these values that are specifically Christian and excluded from humanism or Buddhism or whatever?

[siva_chair]

What exactly are "Christian values" to you?

Well it usually refers to the values found in the teachings of Christ...

I would say they are traditionally viewed as hard work, family, compassion/charity, forgiveness of trespasses, honesty, justice, etc.

Or as Paine himself said:

“I believe in one God, and no more: and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe in the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow creatures happy.”

Plus I think its pretty obvious that a good amount of American Christians do not understand their faiths. If they did they're all be living differently. God before everything and all that.

And?

[siva_chair]

You of all people know that Christianity is hardly static in its values to the point of being able to ascribe "Christian values" to such a spectrum. What are these values that are specifically Christian and excluded from humanism or Buddhism or whatever?

Holy crap you guys are conflating the issue beyond necessity. The guy asked a question and I answered it. I made no claim or statements concerning the specifics of any particular value system.

The fact is that the majority of people in this nation today and at it's inception adhere(d) to what is commonly referred to as Christian values. Most of the people today and yesterday did not identify themselves as Buddhists or "humanists,"etc, they identified themselves as Christians. That is why it is often referred to as a "Christian nation." Excuse me for pointing this fact out and answering the guy's question....

[Mr. Ron]

Well it usually refers to the values found in the teachings of Christ...

I would say they are traditionally viewed as hard work, family, compassion/charity, forgiveness of trespasses, honesty, justice, etc.

Or as Paine himself said:

“I believe in one God, and no more: and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe in the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow creatures happy.”



And?
none of those are unique to Christianity though. :/

[ATC]

Holy crap you guys are conflating the issue beyond necessity. The guy asked a question and I answered it. I made no claim or statements concerning the specifics of any particular value system.

Not at all. You're reclaiming secular Enlightenment values as Christian values, whatever that means. Tom Paine rejected Jesus' divinity which to my mind is pretty un-Christian. He might as well be speaking from a humanist or whatever else perspective. As for the point that hard work and patience and so forth can even be marshalled together into Christian values in the absence of a Christ-centric personal belief system, that's laughable. Deists are not Christians. If they were, they'd make it a point to emphasize that. What they were were men who were able to see the danger that not enshrining the separation of church and state posed. What people do or identify with in their private lives is their business but until government is posited on a specifically Christ-centric approach, it is not a Christian nation and no amount of reclamation will change that fact.

I'm curious why a market anarchist like you say you are would even implicitly make a case for religion in government.

Good thing most of them still adhered pretty much to the same Christian value system, even the ones that were deists

Value judgment.

[siva_chair]

none of those are unique to Christianity though. :/

I don't recall where anyone ever said they were.

Not at all. You're reclaiming secular Enlightenment values as Christian values, whatever that means.

No, if anything "Enlightenment values" sprang from the so called Christian values.

Tom Paine rejected Jesus' divinity which to my mind is pretty un-Christian.

Well it's a good thing no one ever claimed he was a Christian. He specifically mentions an admiration for the "values of Christianity."

He might as well be speaking from a humanist or whatever else perspective. As for the point that hard work and patience and so forth can even be marshalled together into Christian values in the absence of a Christ-centric personal belief system, that's laughable. Deists are not Christians. If they were, they'd make it a point to emphasize that. What they were were men who were able to see the danger that not enshrining the separation of church and state posed. What people do or identify with in their private lives is their business but until government is posited on a specifically Christ-centric approach, it is not a Christian nation and no amount of reclamation will change that fact.

Wow that's nice and great but too bad you are basically creating a huge impotent strawman. I never said Deists are Christians, I never said hard work and patience were unique to Christianity, I never said anything about the government and the personal lives of people (although it is interesting to point out that some of the strongest advocates of the separation of church and state were very devout Christians), nor did I specifically say that I felt the nation was in fact a "Christian nation" (I don't). I simply answered the guys question, and you took it completely the wrong way.

I'm curious why a market anarchist like you say you are would even implicitly make a case for religion in government.

Where did I implicitly make a case for religion in government? Where? Oh that's right I didn't you are just making things up.

Value judgment.

No that was pointing out a historical fact. Try looking at the context next time, chief.

[Mr. Ron]

I don't recall where anyone ever said they were.




ok, but I don't see how you can call them "christian values" when pretty much every value system ever has them in theirs as well.

[siva_chair]

ok, but I don't see how you can call them "christian values" when pretty much every value system ever has them in theirs as well.

Because people of the time in question attributed them as such (and even today people tend to draw those values from their Christian cultural tradition)?

They certainly didn't have quite the knowledge we have today of the various value systems around the world, so it isn't exactly as though they could say "HAY GICE, THESE R EN'T ONLY KRISTIAN VAL YOUS! THEY R BOODIST 2!!!!"

[ATC]

No, if anything "Enlightenment values" sprang from the so called Christian values.

Untrue. Christian values when stripped of their Christ-centric nature become something else entirely. Whether they originated from Christians or whether they were borrowed from other cultures is moot.


Well it's a good thing no one ever claimed he was a Christian. He specifically mentions an admiration for the "values of Christianity."

This goes back to my statement that when you say "good thing...", you're implying that there's no difference between Christian values and what he was advocating. I have admiration for Christian values and to some degree, they were my jumping off point but my values, founded as they are in hard work and patience and all that but without a Christ-centric approach, are not Christian.

Wow that's nice and great but too bad you are basically creating a huge impotent strawman. I never said Deists are Christians, I never said hard work and patience were unique to Christianity, I never said anything about the government and the personal lives of people (although it is interesting to point out that some of the strongest advocates of the separation of church and state were very devout Christians), nor did I specifically say that I felt the nation was in fact a "Christian nation" (I don't). I simply answered the guys question, and you took it completely the wrong way.


If you don't agree that the nation is Christian, then I apologize for presuming you did. I don't see how the personal beliefs of the strongest advocates have anything to do with the principle they advocate at all. I'm not Christian but I send money to Christian programs and am fully behind certain aspects of Christian outreach. Doesn't mean a thing.

You implied that Deist values which are stripped of Christ are close enough to Christian values to have the difference mean little, as evidenced by your quote where you went good thing...x.


No that was pointing out a historical fact. Try looking at the context next time, chief.

I'd advise the same for you.

[Iskandar]

I thought the term "Christian nation" referred to the government being based on Judeo-Christian values, not the people practicing the religion. Much like how we use the term "Islamic nation" today.

In that sense America is not really a Christian nation at all as it's clearly meant to be secular.

[ATC]

They certainly didn't have quite the knowledge we have today of the various value systems around the world, so it isn't exactly as though they could say "HAY GICE, THESE R EN'T ONLY KRISTIAN VAL YOUS! THEY R BOODIST 2!!!!"

Regardless of where tradition they sprang from, they are far enough removed by virtue of their beliefs, that they cannot be meaningfully called Christian values anymore. They had no knowledge of Buddhism, sure, no one's asking you to call them Buddhist values, they're certainly not Christian (purely, if you like) though.

[siva_chair]

Untrue. Christian values when stripped of their Christ-centric nature become something else entirely. Whether they originated from Christians or whether they were borrowed from other cultures is moot.

No, it isn't. Especially when many members of the "Enlightenment" movement were either Christian themselves or openly acknowledged the virtue of the values derived from Christianity.


This goes back to my statement that when you say "good thing...", you're implying that there's no difference between Christian values and what he was advocating. I have admiration for Christian values and to some degree, they were my jumping off point but my values, founded as they are in hard work and patience and all that but without a Christ-centric approach, are not Christian.

I said "good thing" because he said it first. I was pointing out that even these self-subscribed deists openly acknowledged that they held what they referred to as "Christian values."

If you don't agree that the nation is Christian, then I apologize for presuming you did. I don't see how the personal beliefs of the strongest advocates have anything to do with the principle they advocate at all. I'm not Christian but I send money to Christian programs and am fully behind certain aspects of Christian outreach. Doesn't mean a thing.

It doesn't, but that part about separation of church and state was just a side bit, thus the reason I said "it's interesting to point out..."

You implied that Deist values which are stripped of Christ are close enough to Christian values to have the difference mean little, as evidenced by your quote where you went good thing...x.

No, I implied that the deists themselves claimed themselves to subscribe to Christian values. That is what most of them identified them as, as evident by their very own writings.

I'd advise the same for you.

Thanks, but I'm not the one that took anything out of context.

[siva_chair]

Regardless of where tradition they sprang from, they are far enough removed by virtue of their beliefs, that they cannot be meaningfully called Christian values anymore. They had no knowledge of Buddhism, sure, no one's asking you to call them Buddhist values, they're certainly not Christian (purely, if you like) though.

No, to disregard the historical context and situation where that line of thinking derives from is ridiculous and intellectually dishonest.

[ATC]

No, to disregard the historical context and situation where that line of thinking derives from is ridiculous and intellectually dishonest.

So is not acknowledging that the differences between the two were significant. As is using that to justify modern disavowal of the difference.

[siva_chair]

So is not acknowledging that the differences between the two were significant. As is using that to justify modern disavowal of the difference.

Except I never said they weren't different.

It is a fact that most deists of the time in question derived their values from the Judeo-Christian tradition. Mainly, because that was the culture they lived in and most didn't know enough about other value systems to attribute those values from them.

[Iskandar]

If you guys are going to ignore the post I made can we at least define what a Christian nation is? Is it a nation where the majority of people practice Christianity, or one where the government itself is based on Christian values? America is clearly the first but I don't know about the second.

[siva_chair]

If you guys are going to ignore the post I made can we at least define what a Christian nation is? Is it a nation where the majority of people practice Christianity, or one where the government itself is based on Christian values? America is clearly the first but I don't know about the second.

The original question was not if the nation is in fact a Christian nation or not, but rather where the notion of various people that it is comes from.

[Iskandar]

Yeah, and which is it?

[siva_chair]

Yeah, and which is it?

It's supposedly a secular nation.

[Iskandar]

So this idea of a Christian nation derives from the population being Christian then. Which means the idiots who try to get religion into bed with government based on "Judeo-Christian values" are idiots. Which I already knew.

Thanks!

[siva_chair]

So this idea of a Christian nation derives from the population being Christian then. Which means the idiots who try to get religion into bed with government based on "Judeo-Christian values" are idiots. Which I already knew.

Thanks!

Well more specifically it derives from the Enlightenment and western culture being derived themselves from Judeo-Christian thought.

More broadly, most people who "try to get religion into bed with government," as you put it, simply are referring to the fact that our justice system and the likes were derived from Christian sources (and not Hindu or Buddhist or Muslim or even atheist).

Either way, I'm sure different people use different reasonings in proclaiming it being derived from "Christian values."

[Iskandar]

The Enlightenment was based on secularism and reasoning more than Christianity though.

[siva_chair]

The Enlightenment was based on secularism and reasoning more than Christianity though.

Yes but a large part of it was birthed out of Christian thinkers, and it took place in a Judeo-Christian culture.

The Enlightenment simply would not have happened as such if it hadn't been for the natural rights Christians of the Middle Ages.

[mph4ever]

Yes but the country wasn't founded by people who adhered to 1000 other value systems so that point is rather irrelevant.

they just conveniently summarised it as christian

[1338 h4x0r]

I would say they are traditionally viewed as hard work, family, compassion/charity, forgiveness of trespasses, honesty, justice, etc.

siva_chair forgives trespasses...

...with 147 grains of lead.

[siva_chair]

they just conveniently summarised it as christian

Yeah probably because that is the only way they knew it as.

siva_chair forgives trespasses...

...with 147 grains of lead.

Only in the knees. Unless they have a gun then they are fair game.

[McP3000]

siva_chair forgives trespasses...

...with 147 grains of lead.
boom headshot

[Joe]

Thank god it's Michael Steele! He'll be out of Maryland politics!!! Wahoo!!

[gregulus]

I've spent the last 30 minutes trying to explain to my friend why conspiracy theories are bullshit. God dammit.

[mph4ever]

Yeah probably because that is the only way they knew it as.


just asking, do you have any medically diagnosed conditions? physically or mentally?

[siva_chair]

just asking, do you have any medically diagnosed conditions? physically or mentally?

No sir.

[mph4ever]

genuinely?

[Knifeboy]

can't get diagnosed if you never go to a doctor ;)

[siva_chair]

genuinely?

Yes.

But I'm glad we have a forum here full of Dr. Phil's to speculate on things like this.

[mph4ever]

Yes.

But I'm glad we have a forum here full of Dr. Phil's to speculate on things like this.


not phil here.

are you more than one person?

[siva_chair]

not phil here.

are you more than one person?

No.

And is there a point to these asanine questions?

[Knifeboy]

if they bother you then stop replying

[siva_chair]

They don't bother me, I just wondered why the hell he is so interested?

[1338 h4x0r]

They don't bother me, I just wondered why the hell he is so interested?

He wants a plausible explanation for your doucheyness.

[siva_chair]

He wants a plausible explanation for your doucheyness.

Hilarious coming from someone who's doucheyness defies description.

[Knifeboy]

well at least we have an explanation behind 1338's douchiness!

[1338 h4x0r]

I have Assburgers

That is a plausible explanation for my doucheyness

Regardless, siva, I am trying to mend my ways. You will probably continue being a libertarian loony troglodyte whom no one outside your militia takes seriously

[mph4ever]

Hilarious coming from someone who's doucheyness defies description.

change your name to oscar

[1338 h4x0r]

Siva the Douche

Doesn't quite trip off the tongue

[Iskandar]

Remember Coheneran? He was an anarchist and we got along with him fine.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I have Assburgers

That is a plausible explanation for my doucheyness

Regardless, siva, I am trying to mend my ways. You will probably continue being a libertarian loony troglodyte whom no one outside your militia takes seriously
completely unnecessary use of the word whom

[1338 h4x0r]

completely unnecessary use of the word whom

The use of 'whom' in this case is correct, because it serves as a direct object.

[Iskandar]

Whom must be considered correct though it is archaic.

[siva_chair]

change your name to oscar

No thanks that's ok.

Remember Coheneran? He was an anarchist and we got along with him fine.

I don't really give a **** if you "get along with me fine," to be honest.

[Iskandar]

I'm taking my ball and going home!

[Mr. Ron]

I've always hated the word "whom"

[Dave de Sylvia]

The use of 'whom' in this case is correct, because it serves as a direct object.
correct but also completely unnecessary

[Mr. Ron]

who cares

[Dave de Sylvia]

exactly!

[1338 h4x0r]

I like 'whom'

tbh

[Iskandar]

I like objective pronouns but they're not coming back.

[1338 h4x0r]

I like my favorite hooker, Sunaree, but I killed her with a wrench while I was drunk, so she's not coming back

[siva_chair]

I'm taking my ball and going home!

Have fun.

[mph4ever]

I've always hated the word "whom"

its too close to womb

[mph4ever]

people who are mods are to be repected, i'd hate to be a mod around around here with people from sri lanka and their cathaoir

[Iskandar]

What's a cathaoir? For that matter, why does every Irish word look like eoighaine?

[mph4ever]

What's a cathaoir? For that matter, why does every Irish word look like eoighaine?

how did you know it was as gaeilge?

[Iskandar]

From the spelling. Plus you're Irish right?

[Dave de Sylvia]

chair

[Iskandar]

Silly Gaels with your Gaeilge.

Totally gae in my opinion.

[mph4ever]

totally hómiaighnéasach

[Iskandar]

Oh yeah, definitely aighsgeanáicheanoghdh.

[mph4ever]

thats welsh

[Iskandar]

There's a village in Wales called Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch.

Seriously. There really is.

[mph4ever]

yep, good job they don't have a team you need to support, you would get a pain in your arse chainting that anywhere.

and there is one in england called dis

i know because one of my mates dragged me out there on the way to a game involving norwich and the scouse scum and i was bored to to death and got fed up asking him "is dis it?"

[1338 h4x0r]

So I was talking with a new Chinese friend today. After I answered some grammatical and essay writing questions he had and we went over some calculus problems for my benefit, we went over to Ellicott to eat.

On the way there:

"Some people say my coat makes me look like Xitele (Adolf Hitler)."
"I [don't have a problem with Hitler]. He was good at giving speech."

Then he laughed when I yelled "VOR UNS LIEGT DEUTSCHLAND, IN UNS MARSCHIERT DEUTSCHLAND, UND HINTER UNS KOMMT DEUTSCHLAND!"

I think I'm in love tbh. If they find **** like this funny, my dick is in for a real treat when I go to Shanghai

<3 China

[Mr. Ron]

imagine if you dress like him???? :0

[1338 h4x0r]

Who? Hitler?

I'm not kidding about Shanghai either btw. If I get good at speaking Chinese between now and graduation and manage not to **** up my norske ariske face in a car accident, what my one broham tells me is that women will very bluntly offer to sleep with me everywhere.

[Mr. Ron]

You will be infiltrating communist snatch, beware, I hear it is acidic

[1338 h4x0r]

You can tell it's communist snatch when you put litmus paper in and it comes out a godless shade of red

[mph4ever]

You can tell it's communist snatch when you put litmus paper in and it comes out a godless shade of red


thats only once a month

[1338 h4x0r]

It's acidic though

Weren't you paying attention

[Iskandar]

"Some people say my coat makes me look like Xitele (Adolf Hitler)."
"I [don't have a problem with Hitler]. He was good at giving speech."

<3 ChinaWhy is it Xitele and not Hitele?

:confused:

[Dave de Sylvia]

I went to school with a guy called Xia and we had to call him Sean. I guess somebody figured that would be easier to pronounce.

[McP3000]

i would have called him xenia

[1338 h4x0r]

Why is it Xitele and not Hitele?

:confused:

There is no character for 'hi', with any tone.

When uttered rapidly, 'Xi4 te4 le4' is a reasonable facsimile

I'm thinking of forming a Sino-Nordic union on campus, because the union of Western paganism and Eastern mysticism can only bring good things. However, I need for my organization some kind of stark, powerful symbol shared by both cultures which will leave a lasting impression on everyone who sees it. That's a toughy ... I'm still researching tbh.

[Iskandar]

How about the swastika?

...

[Dave de Sylvia]

think you just ruined the joke

[Iskandar]

Think you're a dirty Irish mick.:mad:

[Dave de Sylvia]

prefix "Irish" is redundant when using the pejorative form "mick"

[McP3000]

im part irish :]

[Mr. Ron]

****ing patsies

[McP3000]

hey im mostly german so i can heil your ***

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm both Deutsch und Irish lol

And when I step into the club, you know I’m steppin with style
Raise my left hand, party people say “Heil!"

:angry:/ :angry:/ :angry:/

[Knifeboy]

now the ss on my jacket stands for super smooth

[1338 h4x0r]

Creep with me! As I roll through the Rhine
Out getting yours while I'm out getting mine
Got a skull on my jacket, pimp it, it pays
Got hoes hunkered in my bunker and they stay there for days
Got a shorty waiting for me at every point of the land
And that just comes with being Adolf's right hand man
I'm the Chairman of the Council of Defense of the Reich
And if you'll come back to my castle, babe, we'll stay up all night

[Aaron]

I'm Austrian.
Fruity-heil!

[1338 h4x0r]

Wir kämpften schon in mancher Schlacht
In Nord, Süd, Ost und West
Und stehen nun zum Kampf bereit
Gegen die rote Pest

:angry:/

[IbanezArtist]

Que?

[1338 h4x0r]

In English, the stanza reads:

"We [have] fought already in many battles
In North, South, East and West
And [we] stay now, readied for war,
Against the Red Pest"

[IbanezArtist]

I know, I speak German mediocrely.

[1338 h4x0r]

I hate inflecting grammars in general, and German grammar in particular. German grammar is what happens when you think of the soundest, most straightforward way to build a language and then do the opposite.

However I took it in high school, so w/e

[IbanezArtist]

inflecting?

[1338 h4x0r]

Examples of inflecting grammars are: German, Spanish, Hindi, Russian, etc., i.e., languages in which the grammatical attributes of a word tend to be encoded in a single transformation to the original. In German for example, if you say "Mit unsere Fahne ist der Sieg" you know the -e at the end of 'unser' indicates a feminine noun in the dative case.

Japanese, Finnish and similar guys also mutate words for grammatical purposes, but there are multiple endings tacked onto the end of the word, not just one. In Finno-Ugric languages, the rules for doing so are particularly ****ed.

English has the dregs of an inflecting grammar, but otherwise it's nearly an isolating grammar. Heil isolating grammars.

[big80smullet]

speak english or die!!!!!

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm going to die anyway

[IbanezArtist]

Isolating grammars ftw

[1338 h4x0r]

That's the spirit

[IbanezArtist]

I'm still a linguistics n00b. I'll get back to you after a semester or two before I can make more comments on isolating/inflecting grammar.

[1338 h4x0r]

I actually don't know that much myself. Mostly things I picked up after getting interested in language from a theoretical perspective when I read Lord of the Rings in middle school plus German in high school and looking at Anglo-Saxon and Latin and Vietnamese on my own, then tutoring ESL students for a while

The reason I like isolating grammars is b/c they are the most practical to learn ... it's silly to pride yourself on having a extremely difficult language because that's not the point. Also they tend to remind me of how most programming languages are set up. In fact you could say that the Vietnamese use of classifiers is akin to 'namespaces' as they are used in, e.g., Java, although that might be stretching it a bit.

[IbanezArtist]

So wait, isolating is like English, were we don't have 3 different genders for nouns, instead just "the", and have different words for dative, nominative, accusitave and stuff, as opposed to German with der, die, den, das, dem, etc. etc. etc.?

[1338 h4x0r]

I see what you mean there when you said "just 'the'", but remember that gender can be reflected in other ways than the definite article.

Yeah, we usually just have particles like 'to', 'from', 'for' and nothing else changes, which is the ideal thing in my view, but there are exceptions. If English were a true isolating language, it wouldn't have a distinction between 'I' or 'me'. In fact, in Jamaican vernacular English (at least based on my exposure to it from reggae), you'll notice that there is often no 'me' or 'my', just 'I' wherever you would usually put those words. I imagine that's a result of the fact that a lot of Niger-Congo languages are isolating. AFAIK most of those spoken in West Africa are isolating but I could be wrong.

[IbanezArtist]

Yeah, I much prefer isolating languages, or semi-isolated.

Very interesting stuff, may ask my professor if she has any resources on the topic, we're tight.

[1338 h4x0r]

I wish I had time to take linguistics classes

Creole is another good example of inflecting grammar -> isolating grammar.

Plus it's fun. It's just a language that exudes fun, not only because it has a simple grammar, but it just sort of has an élan of fun to it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-EQ4juHw6E

[IbanezArtist]

I'm only in my first one, but already it's changed the way I look at language.

[1338 h4x0r]

Ah, **** me ... so much I wish I had the time for

[IbanezArtist]

True true.

Where are you from and where do you go to school?

I'd recommend it even as an elective.

How about that siva_chair?

Why is he allowed to breathe air?

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm from eastern Shitsylvania and I go to SUNY @ Buffalo here in the sunny, balmy climes of western New York.

I'd consider taking linguistics for an elective, but I already want to minor in international studies and perhaps prepare for a master in economics, so how am I going to fit that **** and graduate in this decade?

[Iskandar]

Japanese, Finnish and similar guys also mutate words for grammatical purposes, but there are multiple endings tacked onto the end of the word, not just one. In Finno-Ugric languages, the rules for doing so are particularly ****ed.Those are agglutinating languages. They actually tend to be quite regular, the opposite of fusional languages like Latin and Russian (the other kind of synthetic language).

[1338 h4x0r]

You have no idea how ****ed and irregular Finnish is

http://www.uusikielemme.fi/

[Iskandar]

You have no idea how ****ed and irregular Finnish is

http://www.uusikielemme.fi/Complicated, but not irregular. Not compared to English. Or Chinese for that matter.

Though Finnish is not a purely agglutinative language but in between fusional and agglutinative. Turkish is a better example, and it only has 2 irregular verbs or something.

[IbanezArtist]

It'd be an interesting language to know though.

[IbanezArtist]

Complicated, but not irregular. Not compared to English. Or Chinese for that matter.

Though Finnish is not a purely agglutinative language but in between fusional and agglutinative. Turkish is a better example, and it only has 2 irregular verbs or something.

Elaborate, what is agglutinative and fusional?

Also, Turkish is interesting in that it has a verb tense for gossip.

[1338 h4x0r]

Complicated, but not irregular. Not compared to English. Or Chinese for that matter.

Though Finnish is not a purely agglutinative language but in between fusional and agglutinative. Turkish is a better example, and it only has 2 irregular verbs or something.

Finnish has special cases coming out of its ***; so does English, at least wrt orthography, but fortunately it's my native language.

Chinese has very few irregularities.

[IbanezArtist]

You're from Finland? Your English is very good.

[1338 h4x0r]

No

I'm a piece of **** German-American from Pennsylvania

[IbanezArtist]

Oh, hey, me too, except I'm only half, but still first gen, currently in Kentucky.

What part of Pennsylvania? My gf is from Philly and I may be up there for spring break.

If so, we should go find siva_chair and take pictures of him jacking off to Pottery Barn for all of MX to see.

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm from Allentown

siva_chair lives in Bum****, KS btw

[Iskandar]

Finnish has special cases coming out of its asFinnish has 15 cases, I believe, and they are used regularly except that a couple are more common in writing and formal speech.
Elaborate, what is agglutinative and fusional?
They are two different kinds of synthetic (inflecting) grammar.

Agglutinative means you string together morphemes. Each segment has its own separate meaning.

Fusional means inflections have a variety of meanings, like tense, person, gender etc.

The opposite of synthetic languages are analytic languages like Chinese which rely mostly on word order rather than inflection to convey information.

[1338 h4x0r]

Finnish has 15 cases, I believe, and they are used regularly except that a couple are more common in writing and formal speech.
They are two different kinds of synthetic (inflecting) grammar.

Oops I meant 'special case' in the computer science sense, i.e., exception to the rule.

[Iskandar]

Oh. Yeah. Well "case" means something entirely different in linguistics, as you know. Though Chinese doesn't have cases does it.

[1338 h4x0r]

It doesn't

特殊案件 - special case

[Iskandar]

I can't read Asian scribbles!

[1338 h4x0r]

tèshū ànjiàn

[Iskandar]

Shí jiàng hû fòng má.

[1338 h4x0r]

hû?

[Dave de Sylvia]

agglutinative

[Mr. Ron]

finns will eternally be badasses for what they did in their winter war

[1338 h4x0r]

finns will eternally be badasses for what they did in their winter war

Heil aus Finnland :angry:/ :angry:/ :angry:/

[Iskandar]

finns will eternally be badasses for what they did in their winter warThat was pretty sweet. They lost a bit of their territory but they came out on top in the end.

[1338 h4x0r]

Der Gegner kommt niemals zur Ruh'

:angry:/

[Knifeboy]

Ich habe grosse eier!

[Mr. Ron]

Simo Häyhä \m/

[1338 h4x0r]

Adolf Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu

[Mr. Ron]

I had that song stuck in my head yesterday

[1338 h4x0r]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8pqpF1orQ

Mujhe Apni Sharan Mein Le Lo ... Hitler

[mph4ever]

i can't wait until studies become more demanding timewise

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm ghostwriting some online courses for a friend at another school, too. I just have lots of free time cuz I'm a goddamn genius

[hismajestythepope]

i have to write a couple of essays by midnight omg this is so intense omg

the one is about neurons and ****

[Already_Taken]

micheal phelps caught smokin weed. well i guess it doesn't hamper your olympic gold winning ability

[1338 h4x0r]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi-gYRzEKmY

[mph4ever]

I'm ghostwriting some online courses for a friend at another school, too. I just have lots of free time cuz I'm a goddamn genius

well take on more stuff and get busier genius

i watched benji button. brad pitt's a trog and that blanchett bird is ugly. was she the one with big ears in lotr?

[Iskandar]

All of the elves had big ears. That was kind of the point.

[McP3000]

micheal phelps caught smokin weed. well i guess it doesn't hamper your olympic gold winning ability
wait, really?

thats awesome

[Aaron]

I wish I was more structured in my study. I'm a worker at heart; if there's a deadline I can stay awake for 72 hours and write 10,000 words that are worth writing [have done], if there's no deadline I'll write 1,500 of waffle.

[McP3000]

i wish i had structure too
but not so i could stay up for 72 hours :P

[Aaron]

Hah. I sleep like 4 hours each night anyway, taking that away once in a while isn't that much of a stretch.

[McP3000]

oh

if i get less than 6 i usually just skip the class.

[Iskandar]

Hah. I sleep like 4 hours each night anywayHow

Not how, but why.

[McP3000]

some people can just run on less sleep. I personally can't, but one of my suitemates averages about the same every night that he's sober.

[Already_Taken]

i need 8 hours at least or i'm a waste of time for anyone else to bother with. i love to sleep, but at times it really hampers my real life performance as i'm constantly ready to pass out.

[Mr. Ron]

I don't get enough sleep. I usually get about 5 hours in.

[Knifeboy]

I used to run on alcohol. Well sorta. Normally I need 8-9 hours of sleep to be productive. But if I got shitfaced, I'd only sleep for 4 hours then I'd wake up and do something productive like clean my entire apartment

I haven't gotten shitfaced in that way for a long long time though.

Never get hangovers

[1338 h4x0r]

I just woke up and it's 3:36.

Heil.