PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[lunchforthesky]

I see what you're saying

but what would you say was the biggest cause of WW1?

it is a ridiculuously complicated issue really. every country that joined had a lot of reasons.

i think that the germans started the war because of thier desire for empire, general german militarism.

but all the countries had huge problems at home especially with socialism and unions. there was a huge strike wave between 1912-1914 in britain and the socialists were the biggest party in the reichstag in germany.

the old empires in the east were doing there best to cling to power but failing and the war provided a huge distraction from domestic problems for all the nations.

theres a lot more to it than that but thats a very basic overview.

[AlienEater]

yeah the fact that germans wanted an empire was probably the "main" reason.

[lunchforthesky]

i dont think you can say there was a main reason. its like suggesting a main reason why god is probably not real.

there are so many reasons that are hugely important.

[veggie 3.14]

Got a new book today!

And a filum to watch tonight.

The book: Octave Mirbeau- Torture Garden
The Film: Trainspotting.

^_^

[lunchforthesky]

trainspotting is such a great film. might watch it myself later.

[griftadan]

The Film: Trainspotting.

^_^

get ready to be depressed

[lunchforthesky]

get ready to be depressed

why?

it just makes me entertained

[AlienEater]

It's quite a good movie. I think it was a little overrated.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Well I have to admit it's an odd mix, but according to the Oxbridge websites they expect people to take 4/5 AS levels and 3/4 A2s and most offers at these schools are set at AAA, so I don't think that taking only 4 subjects will be a huge disadvantage (although 5 AS/4A2s would probably be preferred). You still have several options with those courses though, I know people with far worse combinations.

They're pretty lax about it, but they want you to be an academically balanced individual and this is easier if you took an extra subject.

[veggie 3.14]

get ready to be depressed

I really liked it, actually.

Very funny, if a little depressing at times. I'd like to get hold of the original novel now.

[The_Passenger]

Very funny, if a little depressing at times. I'd like to get hold of the original novel now.

The novel is fair bit "grittier" (for lack of a btter word) than the film, just so you know. I thought the film was bad enough but some of the stuff in the book makes Renton a lot less likeable...

[AlienEater]

I want to read it.

[PerpetualBurn]

i chose maths, physics, english and history, so it's a bit of a confused set of subjects. and i should be doing a fifth AS really

oxbridge won't want me :(

Most people do a crappy fifth AS like General Studies or Critical Thinking anyway. If you want Oxbridge then make sure you get As at AS and be prepared to do a very good interview.

Also, Physics AS is the worst thing ever. The A2 seemed alright when I saw other people's work.

[Smokey D]

it is a ridiculuously complicated issue really. every country that joined had a lot of reasons.

i think that the germans started the war because of thier desire for empire, general german militarism.

but all the countries had huge problems at home especially with socialism and unions. there was a huge strike wave between 1912-1914 in britain and the socialists were the biggest party in the reichstag in germany.

the old empires in the east were doing there best to cling to power but failing and the war provided a huge distraction from domestic problems for all the nations.

theres a lot more to it than that but thats a very basic overview.

I disagree. The conflict arose from the systematic strategies of the German empire, which necessitated simultaneous declarations of war on France and Russia. After the assasination of Franz Ferdinand, the Austrians sought to pressure the Serbs, whom they felt they could quickly defeat, in to declaring. Serbia, however, was backed by Russia. When Austria appealed to its German ally, Russia began to mobilise, which set in motion the rigid strategies the whermarcht. It was supposed the Russians would be slow to mobilise and that the Germans would have ample time to defeat the French before it directed its forces towards the East. The violation of Belgium drew Britain into the war, and prevented the execution of the Schlieffen plan designed to rapidly defeat France. While it's true that countries did not strictly have to conform to treaties and alliances, diplomacy was much more formal in the European system at that time. This made it much more difficult to renege on obligations. This, coupled with the fact that Britain and Germany were in the middle of an arms race and the latter felt threatened by Russia underlaid the drift to war. The events of 1914 provided the perfect oppurtunities to settle old scores and reinforce the new world order. It seemed early on that conforming to alliance expectations would be extremely beneficial to all parties involved.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Most people do a crappy fifth AS like General Studies or Critical Thinking anyway. If you want Oxbridge then make sure you get As at AS and be prepared to do a very good interview.

Also, Physics AS is the worst thing ever. The A2 seemed alright when I saw other people's work.

I did 6 *** if we count general studies; I don't count it because i was excused from attending the lectures and just did the exam anyway, and got a safe A.

Physics AS isn't that bad, but some of the ncier things like astrophysics are in A2 where AS has yucky Optics.

[PerpetualBurn]

Lies! Physics AS is abysmal. I spent a year with a sodding power box and crappy bits of wires measuring resistance.

Also, I still don't know what the aim of my coursework experiment was. I think I was making a sensor of some form, but I don't know how.

What AS's did you do then?

[veggie 3.14]

The novel is fair bit "grittier" (for lack of a btter word) than the film, just so you know. I thought the film was bad enough but some of the stuff in the book makes Renton a lot less likeable...

Ah.

In other news: I've nearly finished Torture Garden, and am wading my way through Crime And Punishment.

Also, I took the day off of school, 'cause I feel not so good.

And now I'm doing coursework. Stupid parents.

[ashman]

Lies! Physics AS is abysmal. I spent a year with a sodding power box and crappy bits of wires measuring resistance.

Also, I still don't know what the aim of my coursework experiment was. I think I was making a sensor of some form, but I don't know how.

What AS's did you do then?

AS physics sucks, A Level ruled. You get to play with more WIRES and BIGGER Power boxes.

Oh and then there's Cosmology, Basic Quantum physics (none of this string crap) and some magnet stuff. I enjoyed it.

[lunchforthesky]

I disagree. The conflict arose from the systematic strategies of the German empire, which necessitated simultaneous declarations of war on France and Russia. After the assasination of Franz Ferdinand, the Austrians sought to pressure the Serbs, whom they felt they could quickly defeat, in to declaring. Serbia, however, was backed by Russia. When Austria appealed to its German ally, Russia began to mobilise, which set in motion the rigid strategies the whermarcht. It was supposed the Russians would be slow to mobilise and that the Germans would have ample time to defeat the French before it directed its forces towards the East. The violation of Belgium drew Britain into the war, and prevented the execution of the Schlieffen plan designed to rapidly defeat France. While it's true that countries did not strictly have to conform to treaties and alliances, diplomacy was much more formal in the European system at that time. This made it much more difficult to renege on obligations. This, coupled with the fact that Britain and Germany were in the middle of an arms race and the latter felt threatened by Russia underlaid the drift to war. The events of 1914 provided the perfect oppurtunities to settle old scores and reinforce the new world order. It seemed early on that conforming to alliance expectations would be extremely beneficial to all parties involved.

all that implies that a country is in some way forced to honor a treaty rather than acting in its best interests. this is just not so.

It so more complicated than that.

Britain went to war with Germany as opposed to France (and previosu it could easilt have been different) largely because the British Foreign office which wields massiv epower was more up of a lot of Anti-German people, particularly the foreign minister Lord Grey. The Destructive role of the inept Kaiser Wilhelm II at Agaidir and in the Daily Telegraph affair made British popular opinion against Germany increase.

In France there was a massive desire to keep check on Germany who were a direct threat to themselves.

Russia was faced with huge internal problems, what with the Tsar having a backwards economy, increased support for a duma that worked and resentmeant at the failings of the third Duma and almost no support outside of his inner circle. As in 1905 when they went to war Japan joining the war was a distraction at home. every party except the SR's and the Bolsheviks supported the war.

the same in Germany where the social democrats were the biggest party and were demanding better welfare and a limit on the kaisers power especially over foreign policy.

It was in a way a classic tactic used by regimes. Nationalism always blinds the common man to the realities of whats really happening. i mean just look at Iraq. and in this case they managed to have this world war and distract everyone from the problems at home particularly in germany and russia. all the alliances meant nothing without popular support. and neither were they truly binding. look at how Italy broke theirs. the sarajevo incidents was just a bit of justification however trivial. to use iraq again, weapons of mass destruction were just a petty justification for a war but they were hardly the cause of it.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Lies! Physics AS is abysmal. I spent a year with a sodding power box and crappy bits of wires measuring resistance.

Also, I still don't know what the aim of my coursework experiment was. I think I was making a sensor of some form, but I don't know how.

What AS's did you do then?

PHysics, Electronics, maths/Further maths, Chemsitry, General Studies, in roder of preference

[PerpetualBurn]

Maths/Further Maths is really one subject though. If you can do the further stuff the regular shouldn't be too bad.

General Studies is amazing. Anyone with any critical thinking ability can walk it, yet somehow so many do poorly.

[lunchforthesky]

i got 100% in one of my as general studies modules even though id write stupid stuff. id considert turning to it just for the fun, theres no lessons either which is good

[PerpetualBurn]

I got full marks on two of the A2 GS papers.

One lad in my class got full marks on every single GS paper and on the coursework.

[lunchforthesky]

i imagine most people on here would do well at it. the idiots at my college found it really difficult cause they had to use their brain instead of just memerizing pages of a book

[coheneran]

I don't wanna go back to a previous conversation (well actually I do, that's why I'm doing it), but if you liked Trainspotting (whether it was the film or the book), you should see/read The Acid House, it's really funny (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122515/). Anyone read Welsh's novel Porno yet? I haven't read it yet and it looks like a complete "please-make-another-movie-out-of-my-books-this-one-is-even-raunchier" job, all about the money. I'd like a second opinion, because the only person I've talked to about it said that it's amazing, but she just likes Welsh for the shock value because she thinks it's cool, she doesn't actually read anything else...

EDIT: Link works now.

[lunchforthesky]

link doesnt work but i might check it out. havent read the welsh book obviously cause im not welsh

[veggie 3.14]

I'm probably gonna do critical thinking as my other AS, as it looks like a free A level.

:)

[lunchforthesky]

yeah thats a good idea. i like a challenge though. i did business for AS and even htough it was an easy A i thought it was really unstimulating so i dropped it for A2.

[veggie 3.14]

Anyone here read Torture Garden, by Octave Mirbeau? It's a brilliant book. I found out about in the notes for a Manic Street Preachers album. :lol:

[coheneran]

Give us a quick review.

[Iskandar]

and am wading my way through Crime And Punishment.

Alright.:thumb:

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Maths/Further Maths is really one subject though. If you can do the further stuff the regular shouldn't be too bad.


You'd be surprised, actually. I got my worst maths module mark of last year in core 1. (no calculator = mepwned)

My UMS scores for Maths and Further maths are about the same.

General Studies is amazing. Anyone with any critical thinking ability can walk it, yet somehow so many do poorly.
I know! I got 100% in the science bit and still got a good A in one of the essay papers and 2 marks short of an A in the culture one without any preparation and without having written an essay in literally a year

[lunchforthesky]

its a shame most uni's think its worthless

[coheneran]

Any law students know what a "privilege issue motion" means?

http://www.mcgarrsolicitors.ie/category/corrib/

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

its a shame most uni's think its worthless

except sheffield

because they set the exam

[lunchforthesky]

haha thats pretty good then. at leeds they only took you on AAB in proper subjects

[Futue te Ipsum]

except sheffield

because they set the examSheffield medical school doesn't : /

[coheneran]

Know which town's weird?

Halifax.

[Smokey D]

all that implies that a country is in some way forced to honor a treaty rather than acting in its best interests. this is just not so.

It was always in their interests to honour the alliances. That's why the alliances were made.

Britain went to war with Germany as opposed to France (and previosu it could easilt have been different) largely because the British Foreign office which wields massiv epower was more up of a lot of Anti-German people, particularly the foreign minister Lord Grey. The Destructive role of the inept Kaiser Wilhelm II at Agaidir and in the Daily Telegraph affair made British popular opinion against Germany increase.

Britain opposed Germany because it had usurped British industrial and technological pre-eminence, and was using that new found power to create a fleet to rival the Royal Navy. I'm sure a great deal of people in the Foreign Office weren't particuarly friendly towards Germany, but I suspect it was largely because it was in the British national interest to be so.

In France there was a massive desire to keep check on Germany who were a direct threat to themselves.

Of course. Germany had already dealt to France 40 years before. It proved to the world the danger Germany presented, which was what inspired much of the alliance diplomacy in the years leading up to the war, as well as one of the most formidable grudges of the 19th century.

Russia was faced with huge internal problems, what with the Tsar having a backwards economy, increased support for a duma that worked and resentmeant at the failings of the third Duma and almost no support outside of his inner circle. As in 1905 when they went to war Japan joining the war was a distraction at home. every party except the SR's and the Bolsheviks supported the war.

Er, I'm not really sure what this has to do with Germany declaring war on Russia and France.

the same in Germany where the social democrats were the biggest party and were demanding better welfare and a limit on the kaisers power especially over foreign policy.

At this point, the reichstag was still very much a consultative body. It didn't really matter how large the SPD was, 'cause they couldn't require the government to do anything. And besides, the German economy was quite formidable and had very few of the problems seen in other middle or eastern European states.

It was in a way a classic tactic used by regimes. Nationalism always blinds the common man to the realities of whats really happening. i mean just look at Iraq. and in this case they managed to have this world war and distract everyone from the problems at home particularly in germany and russia. all the alliances meant nothing without popular support. and neither were they truly binding. look at how Italy broke theirs. the sarajevo incidents was just a bit of justification however trivial. to use iraq again, weapons of mass destruction were just a petty justification for a war but they were hardly the cause of it.

I think trying to present the entire first world war as some grand exercise in public distraction is exceedingly simplistic and largely ignorant of the geopolitics that underwrote the situation. There were certainly more forces in play than the need to quell domestic opposition.

Besides, my main point was that the War was caused by Germany's rigid strategies requiring it to declare war on two powers simultaneously, which proved unsuccessful in defeating them.

[lunchforthesky]

Er, I'm not really sure what this has to do with Germany declaring war on Russia and France.

Germany only declared war on russia because russia declared war on Austria. They had no interest in taking Russian teroteries. I explained why Russia joined the war. A big, big cause ws that the countries didnt realise how bad it would be. if they would of known i seriously doubt anyone would have joined the war.


I think trying to present the entire first world war as some grand exercise in public distraction is exceedingly simplistic and largely ignorant of the geopolitics that underwrote the situation. There were certainly more forces in play than the need to quell domestic opposition.

im not labelling it as a grand conspiracy, but each nation especially Britain, Russia and Germany had a lot to gain.

In Britain there was working class unrest, votes for woman, home rule for Ireland, welfare reform, the war united all discontented parties (except the extremeist in ireland) and bought asquith some time. of course there were other causes but this was definately one.

Besides, my main point was that the War was caused by Germany's rigid strategies requiring it to declare war on two powers simultaneously, which proved unsuccessful in defeating them.

the schliefflan plan war just a war plan. they declared war because they had to in order to support austria. not because of the schliefflan plan requiring them to. remeber that Britian only joined after Belguim was invaded not through the alliances. germany would of been happy just to fight France and Russia, they didnt think that Britian would join the war.

[lunchforthesky]

Know which town's weird?

Halifax.

i live in huddersfield. its rough in halifax, proper craphole. youve a good chance of getting in several fights if you go out there. bnp do well there which says a lot really

[Smokey D]

Germany only declared war on russia because russia declared war on Austria. They had no interest in taking Russian teroteries. I explained why Russia joined the war. A big, big cause ws that the countries didnt realise how bad it would be. if they would of known i seriously doubt anyone would have joined the war.

Um, Russia never declared war on Austria. It mobilised its army and threatened to invade westwards. According to German military strategy, a two front war had to be prevented, meaning Russia and France couldn't be given the oppurtunity to attack Germany. The only way to ensure this was to launch a pre-emptive strike against both powers, attacking France first.


In Britain there was working class unrest, votes for woman, home rule for Ireland, welfare reform, the war united all discontented parties (except the extremeist in ireland) and bought asquith some time. of course there were other causes but this was definately one.

Britain was the country least of all threatened by internal revolution, though it faced a lot of resistence in Ireland.

im not labelling it as a grand conspiracy, but each nation especially Britain, Russia and Germany had a lot to gain.

Of course they had a lot to gain. They wouldn't have gone to war if they weren't going to get anything.

the schliefflan plan war just a war plan. they declared war because they had to in order to support austria. not because of the schliefflan plan requiring them to. remeber that Britian only joined after Belguim was invaded not through the alliances. germany would of been happy just to fight France and Russia, they didnt think that Britian would join the war.

Er, Belgium's security was gaurunteed by Britain, so clearly they did respond to a diplomatic arrangement. And I'm not sure they wouldn't have had Germany invaded through France proper, as it's something we'll never no.

Germany declared war to support Austria in the face of Russia's belligerent pan-Slavism. However, the rigidity of their strategies required them to pre-emptively engage with France and Russia, which made the chances of difusing the crisis impossible.

[sweboy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1946370,00.html

Creationist museum. Be there.

[PerpetualBurn]

except sheffield

because they set the exam

Sheffield is patently the best city in the world.

And a lot of Universities accept General Studies for Philosophy and Politics since not many places actually offer those subjects at A-level, and it does test your reasoning abilities a bit.

Leeds, Birmingham, Hull, Keele, all accept it for certain. I'm not sure about others.

[AlienEater]

i live in huddersfield. its rough in halifax, proper craphole. youve a good chance of getting in several fights if you go out there. bnp do well there which says a lot really

I go to Halifax occasionally. I've never been beaten up.

Do I go to the wrong places?

[pedro durruti]

King Arthur: Old woman.
Dennis: Man.
King Arthur: Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
Dennis: I'm 37.
King Arthur: What?
Dennis: I'm 37. I'm not old.
King Arthur: Well I can't just call you "man".
Dennis: Well you could say "Dennis".
King Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out did you?
King Arthur: I did say sorry about the "old woman", but from behind you looked...
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior.
King Arthur: Well I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.

Woman: Oh. How do you do?
King Arthur: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Woman: King of the who?
King Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: Who are the Britons?
King Arthur: Well, we all are. We are all Britons. And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You'rw foolin' yourself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Woman: Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
Dennis: Well, that's what it's all about! If only people would...
King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you, we're an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
King Arthur: Yes...
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
King Arthur: Yes I see...
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?

Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

I love Monty Python.

[PerpetualBurn]

You've just played incredibly well.

Great shout.

[coheneran]

i live in huddersfield. its rough in halifax, proper craphole. youve a good chance of getting in several fights if you go out there. bnp do well there which says a lot really

There are quite a few anarchists there, and I got a bunch of mates as well.

"The Bible is the only thing that gives you the full picture," he says. "Other religions don't have that, and, as for scientists, so much of what they believe is pretty fuzzy about life and its origins ..."

Lawl.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

There are quite a few anarchists there, and I got a bunch of mates as well.

"The Bible is the only thing that gives you the full picture," he says. "Other religions don't have that, and, as for scientists, so much of what they believe is pretty fuzzy about life and its origins ..."

Lawl.

Oh i could've cried otday

I was looking tosee if my school librarty had any books on atheism (2 on humanism, nothing more) and i found a creationist science book

He was explaining to anyone stupid enough to read his book that god made gravity "just right" for humans and this demonstrated his existance and I thought to myself i thunk "this man has no concept of science whatsoever"

[Hababi]

He probably has a doctorate in a science related field :cool:

EDIT:
IE this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Sarfati

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

He probably has a doctorate in a science related field :cool:

EDIT:
IE this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Sarfati

:) Physical chemistry

bet he puts that to good use when he concludes that noah lived to be hundereds of years old and at some pointthe entire earth was flooded and then not flooded and every animal in the world ever except a few thousand that would've had to be crammed onto a boat died and so all the fossils in the world give or take were deposited in one go

[Hababi]

Hey you can argue with him all you want, I'm just pointing out that he has valid credentials and a demonstrated understanding of science. The guy's a genius.

[PerpetualBurn]

And yet he's still completely wrong. Sucks for him.

[AlienEater]

He doesn't that yet.

But I'll be sure to inform him.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Hey you can argue with him all you want, I'm just pointing out that he has valid credentials and a demonstrated understanding of science. The guy's a genius.

<shrug> I don't think there's much chemistry in creationism

biology; tonnes

physics; ok maybe just a lil'

chemistry; maybe one tiny bit somehwere i dunno i doubt it


ayway, even if he had a degree in evolutionary science and astrophysics, he's still deluding himself.

[coheneran]

True. Just because Indiana Jones had a degree in archaeology doesn't make him an archaeologist. At least I've never seen him do any conventional archaeology. In fact there've been a few times where he destroyed precious and unique archaeological and anthropological specimens.

[veggie 3.14]

True. Just because Indiana Jones had a degree in archaeology doesn't make him an archaeologist. At least I've never seen him do any conventional archaeology. In fact there've been a few times where he destroyed precious and unique archaeological and anthropological specimens.

Yeah, but he's awesome... I can see no problem with him. Besides, he has a degree, so he MUST know what he's doing.

[veggie 3.14]

Give us a quick review.

/Can't be bothered.

It's a good book: some of the description, especially of the garden, is just awesome.

Gets a tiny bit creepy by the end. And by a tiny bit, I mean downright ****ing weird.

[coheneran]

Yeah, but he's awesome... I can see no problem with him. Besides, he has a degree, so he MUST know what he's doing.

I refer you to Questionable Content: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=723

[veggie 3.14]

I refer you to Questionable Content: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=723

I refer you to google: www.google.com

[coheneran]

I refer you to the Zionist Federation: www.zionist.org.uk

[AlienEater]

I don't refer you to

[coheneran]

Aww, you're no fun anymore.

[PerpetualBurn]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400953&in_page_id=1770

The Daily Mail hates emo.

[AlienEater]

Aww, you're no fun anymore.

FUN MUST DIE

[coheneran]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400953&in_page_id=1770

The Daily Mail hates emo.

This bitch has it all wrong. It's not short for just "emotional", its full meaning is "emotionally neglected", because emo kids have been so emotionally neglected through their childhood, they'd take anyone, that's why they're so easy to bone.

[lunchforthesky]

i saw that article a while ago. i dont know a single person woh cuts themselves, not one. but i know a lot of kids who are emo. by the general definition but emo is rights of spring and indian summer but genre nazism is for the hardcore forum.

[coheneran]

Hah, too right.

Turns out most of the kids I know have cut themselves for whatever personal traumatic reason, it helps manifest emotional pain and deal with it. I however, have only slashed my wrists by accident, when I was teasing a friend of mine about doing it, the plastic shield slipped off the blades as I was running it down my arm, and I got a shallow cut lengthwise (that's what you do when you cut to kill, "emotional pain relief" is usually along the breadth of the wrist) and had to run it under water and bandage it up heavily. It's just my rotten luck, to kill myself by accident.:p

[ashman]

Hah, too right.

Turns out most of the kids I know have cut themselves for whatever personal traumatic reason, it helps manifest emotional pain and deal with it. I however, have only slashed my wrists by accident, when I was teasing a friend of mine about doing it, the plastic shield slipped off the blades as I was running it down my arm, and I got a shallow cut lengthwise (that's what you do when you cut to kill, "emotional pain relief" is usually along the breadth of the wrist) and had to run it under water and bandage it up heavily. It's just my rotten luck, to kill myself by accident.:p


Accidental or not, you've been branded as an emo for life :p

[spitfirejunky]

This bitch has it all wrong. It's not short for just "emotional", its full meaning is "emotionally neglected", because emo kids have been so emotionally neglected through their childhood, they'd take anyone, that's why they're so easy to bone.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Reaganista]

hey just stopping by to make sure you're all still arguing about the same stupid ****

gj keep it up :thumb:

[Amit]

whats up twaymeister

[Reaganista]

not a whole lot

[ashman]

Tway had a name change :eek:

[coheneran]

Tway is gay
And he smokes all day
And he plots capital's decay
In the hills of Monterrey

[veggie 3.14]

:lol:

That article is such a load of balls.

[Iskandar]

hey just stopping by to make sure you're all still arguing about the same stupid ****

gj keep it up :thumb:
You're still wrong.

[ringworm]

and that it only took almost 18,000 posts to figure that out

[spitfirejunky]

Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkomrade Tway has returned.

[AlienEater]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400953&in_page_id=1770

The Daily Mail hates emo.

I hope I don't get caught up in this cult of suicide.

[lunchforthesky]

led by my chemical roamnce and green day. the biggest emo bands on the planet :amaze:

[veggie 3.14]

I'm listening to Jay Z and Linkin Park. And I like it.

Christ...

[AlienEater]

led by my chemical roamnce and green day. the biggest emo bands on the planet :amaze:

who are they and have they caused mass suicide yet?

[lunchforthesky]

not yet but there on the move utah. ill feel a suicide pact coming

[AlienEater]

We have to stop them! Bring your guns incase they resist being saved!

[lunchforthesky]

may god help us all :p


anyone else think we only need two threads in here

1. the thread where us lefties tell everyone how society should work
2. post your conservative ideas and well all tear them apart

[Reaganista]

You're still wrong.
boo statist go away

this is anarky forum

[AlienEater]

may god help us all :p


anyone else think we only need two threads in here

1. the thread where us lefties tell everyone how society should work
2. post your conservative ideas and well all tear them apart

What would happen to the liberals?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

may god help us all :p


anyone else think we only need two threads in here

1. the thread where us lefties tell everyone how society should work
2. post your conservative ideas and well all tear them apart

You forgot the "Atheists punch holes in christians" thread

[AlienEater]

Great idea!

[lunchforthesky]

You forgot the "Atheists punch holes in christians" thread

that was under the conservative ideas bit but im open to extensions

What would happen to the liberals?

we have liberals?? :confused:

[nowhesingsnowhesobs]

ok, but you need an extra 'everyone laugh at dropper and danish' thread

[coheneran]

Nobody laughs at them...

[AlienEater]

who's danish?

[veggie 3.14]

I bought a new CD today.

Also, I'm hungry.

Hi MX.

Bye MX.

[AlienEater]

Hello

Eat a cookie

Goodbye

[veggie 3.14]

Hello

Eat a cookie

Goodbye

I ated the purple berry!

[coheneran]

Power up ++!

[thedeadwalk!]

Oh, man, just caught the first series of Extras (made by Ricky Gervais of The Office). They had guest appearances from Kate Winslet and Patrick Stewart that were tremendous.

Ricky Gervais is funny as hell. He's like a new Jerry Seinfeld.

[Iskandar]

ok, but you need an extra 'everyone laugh at dropper and danish' thread
Our opinions are wrong, because we're not capitalists.

[coheneran]

Our opinions are wrong, because we're not capitalists.

No, have you not been paying attention? Your opinions are wrong because they're not Nowhe's.

Incidentally, what is your name Nowhe, it'd be a lot nicer than shortening your screenname.

*offers hand* Eran

[Hababi]

Hmm Barney Frank is going to be chairing the financial services committee. He should know something about services, as he was at least complicit in running a gay prostitution ring out of his apartment.

[coheneran]

Whores are wrong, but jigglos are plain hawt, amirite?









I don't care what you think, you normie.:(

[Iskandar]

*offers hand* Eran
*takes hand* Alexander

[coheneran]

I was talking to the capitalist, but ok. Hi Comrade Alexander, I'll see you at the revolution.:p

[Iskandar]

I was talking to the capitalist, but ok. Hi Comrade Alexander, I'll see you at the revolution.:p
Usted Eran, I'll be there.

[Hababi]

After mentioning Fred Phelps in that other thread I had an idea:

When Fred Phelps dies, which hopefully will be soon, an overwhelming body of people should protest his funeral, WBC style, and celebrate his death :D

[Reaganista]

hey zero i'll meet you there k

[Hababi]

sounds good

[coheneran]

Class War are doing that for when Thatcher dies. It's pretty much the only reason they still exist.

[Futue te Ipsum]

I like thatcher.

[coheneran]

Yeah, she is totally hawt, from the waist down.

[Futue te Ipsum]

I dread to think about what she looked like from that point onwards :/

[thedeadwalk!]

It is my theory that no one mentions they're drunk here unless they are drinking alone (ie I am alone, and so lonely).

PS, I loved the new episode of The Office.

Cheers to all. Feel sadness for the happiness to feel all the better... Hey, I'm rambling...

[Iskandar]

It is my theory that no one mentions they're drunk here unless they are drinking alone (ie I am alone, and so lonely).
Man, that sucks.

I drunk-post in here on the weekends, after I come in from a night out.

[thedeadwalk!]

Eh, that kind of fits. You wouldn't be posting if you were with other people.

Does anybody watch The Office? None of my friends share any of my interests except everything besides entertainment.

If not, what do you people do for fun, I need to find someone with some kind of common interest.

PS. this really only comes out when I'm drunk. I'm so needy but try to mask it.

Currently listening to: Against Me! - Reinventing Axl Rose (the CD)

[thedeadwalk!]

I just got the hiccups drinking water. Such is the life...

[coheneran]

Eh, that kind of fits. You wouldn't be posting if you were with other people.

Does anybody watch The Office? None of my friends share any of my interests except everything besides entertainment.

If not, what do you people do for fun, I need to find someone with some kind of common interest.

PS. this really only comes out when I'm drunk. I'm so needy but try to mask it.

Currently listening to: Against Me! - Reinventing Axl Rose (the CD)

That album is the shizz man.

Heh, I never drink or puff on my own, it seems like a waste of my lightweight powers, so only when I go out. I have drunk-posted and stone-posted here a couple of times (in fact I got rep+ once for a very eloquent stone-post).

I'm listening to Common Rider - This Is Unity Music.

"Cool this madness down!
Stop this right on time
Got one last chance better cool it down
Before it takes your life!"

[Futue te Ipsum]

If I'm here on a friday night, I wont be sober.

[coheneran]

If I'm here this Friday night (tonight), ban me because that means I'm posting instead of/while shagging.

[Futue te Ipsum]

If I boast about my sexual exploits on the internet, laugh at me, because I'm probably a virgin.

just kidding coh :P

[PerpetualBurn]

Sheffield United vs. Manchester United

I'm going home for this one. Even though home is stupidly boring compared to life at Uni.

[angry armadillo]

if i post here on a friday night ban me because i will be out and someone else is on my PC :D

[coheneran]

If I boast about my sexual exploits on the internet, laugh at me, because I'm probably a virgin.

just kidding coh :P

Uhh, maybe, err, yeah, I'm gonna go...before it gets too late...

[veggie 3.14]

Never fear, teh VEG is here!

[veggie 3.14]

Man, that sucks.

I drunk-post in here on the weekends, after I come in from a night out.

:lol:

Nerd.

[Iskandar]

:lol:

Nerd.
It's nerdy to go on my computer after coming in from doing something?

[AlienEater]

I am currently reading The Dice Man by Luke Rhinehart. It's great. Anyone else read it?

[veggie 3.14]

It's nerdy to go on my computer after coming in from doing something?

No, just to go on your PC whilst drunk. I'd much rather spend that time lying on my back and being drunk, rather than being stupid on a forum.

:lol:

[veggie 3.14]

I am currently reading The Dice Man by Luke Rhinehart. It's great. Anyone else read it?
Nah.

Brief plot outline? Setting, time, etc?

[Iskandar]

No, just to go on your PC whilst drunk. I'd much rather spend that time lying on my back and being drunk, rather than being stupid on a forum.

:lol:
Nah, why lay around? That's boring.

[coheneran]

I must go with Alex on this one, it's far funner discussing the revolution than lying on your back if you're drunk.

Unless someone else is lying/sitting on top of you, in which case, screw your dirty commie revolution.

[AlienEater]

Nah.

Brief plot outline? Setting, time, etc?

I'll do that stuff later, when I can be bothered.

[veggie 3.14]

Nah, why lay around? That's boring.

/Shrugs.

I like lying on my back whilst out of my face. Either that or being a crazy bastard and doing stupid, painful things.

Anyone ever seen the film Garden State? It's awesome.

[Iskandar]

I must go with Alex on this one, it's far funner discussing the revolution than lying on your back if you're drunk.

Unless someone else is lying/sitting on top of you, in which case, screw your dirty commie revolution.
Marx called the act of intercourse the purest expression of communism. He also furthered that analogy by comparing our present society to masturbation.

I'm serious.

(I took the phrase "lying on top of you" somewhat metaphorically.)

[coheneran]

Yeah, I love Zach Braff, he's the hottest thing out of America since Han Solo. Maybe even hotter.

[AlienEater]

how is intercourse communist?

[Iskandar]

Yeah, I love Zach Braff, he's the hottest thing out of America since Han Solo. Maybe even hotter.
Han Solo is an attractive man.

On a barely related note, I have a friend who looks like a young Harrison Ford. I can't say I'm attracted to him, though.

how is intercourse communist?
Two people who previously had separate property (their bodies, which could be called "means of (re)production" if I wanted to make a bad pun) and skills come together to share these things in a single purpose.

Likewise, capitalism is using your property and skills for your own benefit, hence the comparison to masturbation.

Also worth noting, people begin to masturbate before they begin to have sex....

[coheneran]

Marx called the act of intercourse the purest expression of communism. He also furthered that analogy by comparing our present society to masturbation.

I'm serious.

(I took the phrase "lying on top of you" somewhat metaphorically.)

I like jacking off, it's some of the best fun I can have on my own. I would totally have done it when I was in those police station cells, 'cos you get one to yourself, but since I'm not 18 and they wanted to be arseholes, they put me in a CCTV cell because they thought I might try to commit suicide.:rolleyes:

There's so much cool stuff happening tonight, of which my two chosen options are the all night birthday party of one of London's oldest anarchos, or an all night (11-11) tekno party in Bethnal Green. Either way I'm having fun tonight.

[coheneran]

how is intercourse communist?

It's a symbl of deep love towards other human beings, in a setting that is completely equal because in (good) sex, the individual's goal is to pleasure both herself and her partner, and she knows her partner will pleasure her back. That is why sex is one of the most beautiful things two humans can do together, for each other.

[Iskandar]

I like jacking off, it's some of the best fun I can have on my own. I would totally have done it when I was in those police station cells, 'cos you get one to yourself, but since I'm not 18 and they wanted to be arseholes, they put me in a CCTV cell because they thought I might try to commit suicide.:rolleyes:

There's so much cool stuff happening tonight, of which my two chosen options are the all night birthday party of one of London's oldest anarchos, or an all night (11-11) tekno party in Bethnal Green. Either way I'm having fun tonight.
What were you arrested for?

Ah, that's why I wish I lived in a larger city.

[veggie 3.14]

I wish I lived somewhere that didn't suck.

>_<

[Iskandar]

It's a symbl of deep love towards other human beings, in a setting that is completely equal because in (good) sex, the individual's goal is to pleasure both herself and her partner, and she knows her partner will pleasure her back. That is why sex is one of the most beautiful things two humans can do together, for each other.
Ah, that explanation pwns mine; mine was too clinical.

I couldn't agree more.

[veggie 3.14]

So anyway, Simo, an awesome friend of mine, has a new girlfriend.

And a week or two ago, at a party, when they were making out, I jumped on them.

Christ, that was funny.

[spitfirejunky]

****ing Friday Woohoo!!!

[Iskandar]

I concur.

I'm going out in about ... twenty minutes.

[Hababi]

I already went out today...

Food shopping :(

[Futue te Ipsum]

I went out... to fabric. Which was crap and expensive, like usual.

[thedeadwalk!]

I only saw one person today, a suitemate, as I answered the door to a phantom knocker.

I played Guild Wars all day. Tomorrow I'm going to knock out some movies. Busy, busy, busy.

[Dropsonde]

I only saw one person today, a suitemate, as I answered the door to a phantom knocker.

I played Guild Wars all day. Tomorrow I'm going to knock out some movies. Busy, busy, busy.

Which Guild Wars

[pedro durruti]

Haha you politics losers. I got drunk and stoned with my roomates, after they got home from being out, of course.

[PerpetualBurn]

I'm a politics student and all I do is go out and get shitfaced. Except this weekend, since I'm not at Uni and it's rubbish here.

Except for: The Mighty Blades vs. Manure live at Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane

Though I fully expect us to lose.

And then it's off to the pub this evening. And then back to Keele on Sunday to get absolutely smashed and do drunken karaoke in the SU.

[AlienEater]

Haha you politics losers. I got drunk and stoned with my roomates, after they got home from being out, of course.

Pfft I have more important things to do than get drunk and stoned.

Like fighting crime as my secret alterego, The Man Spider.

[veggie 3.14]

Haha you politics losers. I got drunk and stoned with my roomates, after they got home from being out, of course.
Isn't someone hardcore?

:rolleyes:

[AlienEater]

not as hardcore as The Man Spider

[PerpetualBurn]

Isn't Manspider the badguy in Burntfaceman?

[pedro durruti]

Isn't someone hardcore?

:rolleyes:
Haha, I was just trying to say that I am forced to stay home too.

[veggie 3.14]

I bought Marquee Moon, by Television today. And it is ****ing brilliant.

One of the best albums I've bought in a long while.

[coheneran]

What were you arrested for?

Ah, that's why I wish I lived in a larger city.

Protesting.

Oh by the way, I totally got laid yesterday.

It was gooooood.

Really good.

/boast

Plus, had an enlightening conversation about nihilism. The gist of it was that capitalism is pervasive in every part of human life, and so we can't have a pure and unaffected view of freedom, we have no solid point of reference. As I understood it, nihilism doesn't offer a different system of life, but just states that to comprehend freedom in as real and undisturbed a way as possible, we must abolish every aspect of capitalism within our lives and the world. This is, of course, reactionary, but seeing as we were all born and raised within a capitalist system, every ideology and philosophy comes from a capitalist-guided point of view, and so every ideology that isn't capitalism is in fact reactionary to capitalism.

[PerpetualBurn]

I bought Marquee Moon, by Television today. And it is ****ing brilliant.

One of the best albums I've bought in a long while.

I acquired a copy of William Basinski - The Disintegration Loops

One of the best concepts for music I've ever sat and listened to. Incredibly ambient loops repeating over and over as they slowly die away. Brilliant.

[coheneran]

You should burn it and www.rapidshare.com

I'll upload a great ambient little album, you'll love it.

[PerpetualBurn]

I was given a megaupload link for it. Hence the subtle "I acquired". Still got the links if you want.

What are the rules on posting such stuff on here now?

[coheneran]

I dunno. In the punk forum Nick used to say no, but he was nazi mod anyway. I've posted rapidshare links on the punk forum since then, and none of the mods said anything.

I'd love the link please.

[Iskandar]

Protesting.
That sickens me.
Oh by the way, I totally got laid yesterday.

It was gooooood.

Really good.

/boast
We were kind of tired from being out all night, so we cut it short.
but seeing as we were all born and raised within a capitalist system, every ideology and philosophy comes from a capitalist-guided point of view
Sort of.
and so every ideology that isn't capitalism is in fact reactionary to capitalism.
I don't agree with that at all. An ideology which promotes moving backward to previous conditions is reactionary. An ideology that promotes something completely new is progressive.

[PerpetualBurn]

I dunno. In the punk forum Nick used to say no, but he was nazi mod anyway. I've posted rapidshare links on the punk forum since then, and none of the mods said anything.

I'd love the link please.

Everyone's out to get me. I'll bet the mods are just looking for a reason to put me away...well...maybe not now Serenity's retired. The moron.

Do you have msn? I'm bladesman2 at hotmail.com

[coheneran]

That sickens me.

It happens over here. There's a law called SOCPA (Serious and Organised Crime and Police Act, which was deisgned to tackle organised crime) that says you're not allowed to protest within 1km of Parliament without a permit. They're trying to get me on organising it, but they don't have any evidence to prove it, so they released me on police bail and I have to come back in December to see if they found anything worthwhile to charge me with (they won't). If they wanted, they could charge me with just plain "illegal protest", but they'll have a bugger of a courtcase on their hands if they do, because every person who's been arrested under this law will probably be involved in some way, including Brian Haw and Barbara Tucker (two people they keep messing with, and two people who keep beating them back), and they can't win that.

Besides which, even if it was outside of the non-protest zone, they can arrest pretty much anyone they want under the Terrorism Act. I've been arrested for having a permanent marker and a can of spraypaint in my bag, and the supposed crime was "going out equipped to cause criminal damage, with possible intent of commiting criminal damage." They could get you for having a ballpoint pen with this "justification".

We were kind of tired from being out all night, so we cut it short.

Losers.:p

I don't agree with that at all. An ideology which promotes moving backward to previous conditions is reactionary. An ideology that promotes something completely new is progressive.

But isn't any ideology that opposes the status quo reactionary to the status quo, regardless of whether it's fascism or anarchism?

[Iskandar]

It happens over here [...]
That almost makes me want to love my country.
Losers.:p
Hey, we both, y'know, blew our tops. At least we did that once.
But isn't any ideology that opposes the status quo reactionary to the status quo, regardless of whether it's fascism or anarchism?
Nah, not if it advocates a totally new system to replace it. That's progressive.

[coheneran]

It's progress, ok, but it's a *reaction* to the current system. The point is that we have no point of reference to determine what freedom can truly be, all we can say is that it won't be as bad as capitalism, right?

[Iskandar]

It's progress, ok, but it's a *reaction* to the current system. The point is that we have no point of reference to determine what freedom can truly be, all we can say is that it won't be as bad as capitalism, right?
Ah, the term "reactionary" can be misleading. It means a reaction to proposed progress or change, I'm assuming.

[coheneran]

Ah, the term "reactionary" can be misleading. It means a reaction to proposed progress or change, I'm assuming.

I mean it as a reaction to one's own feelings and needs/wants, which are created and affected by the environment one is in (ie. capitalism). So in that sense of the word, any notion of freedom (of anything really, though the philosophy deals with freedom) is a reaction to what one feels freedom can be, which is only an interpretation of what freedom actually is under capitalism.

[Iskandar]

I mean it as a reaction to one's own feelings and needs/wants, which are created and affected by the environment one is in (ie. capitalism). So in that sense of the word, any notion of freedom (of anything really, though the philosophy deals with freedom) is a reaction to what one feels freedom can be, which is only an interpretation of what freedom actually is under capitalism.
In that case I'm more inclined to agree, although I would hesitate to use the word "reactionary."

I'd also consider using the term "liberal democracy" since the political structure of society is equally important with its economic structure, and both are closely related.

[coheneran]

Call it what you will, the point stands that in order to fully comprehend the human potential for freedom, we must destroy every concept and creation of the capitalistic system.

However, why do we need to comprehend ultimate freedom? Anarchy sounds pretty good to me.

[Iskandar]

Call it what you will, the point stands that in order to fully comprehend the human potential for freedom, we must destroy every concept and creation of the capitalistic system.

However, why do we need to comprehend ultimate freedom? Anarchy sounds pretty good to me.
Ultimate freedom isn't possible and would probably not be beneficial anyway. That's why we have the social contract.

[thedeadwalk!]

Which Guild Wars
Nightfall, of course. It's a special weekend for uniques. Only got one, though. Still hope...

Which one's do you have?

[Smokey D]

I don't think nihilism is soley concerned with the conditions of capitalism or liberal democracy. The logic can (and I think has already) be applied to any mode of living, past or present.

[Iskandar]

I don't think nihilism is soley concerned with the conditions of capitalism or liberal democracy. The logic can (and I think has already) be applied to any mode of living, past or present.
Since liberal democracy is our current political economy, it would make sense to apply nihilism to it.

[Smokey D]

Yes, of course, but I don't think it's right to say as Cohen did that it applies solely or specifically to capitalism. It is equally true, according to nihilist logic, under any system which limits freedom or pure expression.

[Iskandar]

Yes, of course, but I don't think it's right to say as Cohen did that it applies solely or specifically to capitalism. It is equally true, according to nihilist logic, under any system which limits freedom or pure expression.
Without trying to be condescending, I must have missed where he said that. I'm in agreement here.

[thedeadwalk!]

Anybody watch MSNBC? For the last hours I've been watching stuff on prisons, coroners, street kids, and now runaways/heroin.

Great channel.

[AlienEater]

I bought Marquee Moon, by Television today. And it is ****ing brilliant.

One of the best albums I've bought in a long while.

That album is so good. Marquee Moon is one of the best songs ever.

[coheneran]

Ultimate freedom isn't possible and would probably not be beneficial anyway. That's why we have the social contract.

How do you know? We can't define freedom outside of a capitalist influence/setting, so for us ultimate freedom is CHAOSMURDERPANIC, but for someone completely detached from social and moral framework it could be completely different.

[coheneran]

Yes, of course, but I don't think it's right to say as Cohen did that it applies solely or specifically to capitalism. It is equally true, according to nihilist logic, under any system which limits freedom or pure expression.

But we have no notion of a world uninfluenced by capitalism, so a world like that is unpredictable, could be anything (since practice is wholly different to theory). This ideology came out of a reaction to capitalism, so for the moment it can only apply to capitalism.

In one way, it's a very situationist ideology.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Protesting.


:lol:

protesting through the medium of molotov cocktails kind of protesting, or chanting, waving signs but not getting in the way kind of protesting?

[veggie 3.14]

That album is so good. Marquee Moon is one of the best songs ever.

Yargh.

I bought it for no particular reason at all, and I was just like... christ, this is brilliant!

[AlienEater]

It's quite odd, because everything Tom Verlaine did afterwards kinda sucked.

[coheneran]

:lol:

protesting through the medium of molotov cocktails kind of protesting, or chanting, waving signs but not getting in the way kind of protesting?

The second one. There was a bit of violence, nothing you'd call dangerous (well, not to the cops or anyone, just to us, you'll see why). At first it was just chanting and stuff, but then the cops surrounded the protest, maybe 800 cops to fifty of us (we're really not that dangerous, to people, but capital runs and hides around the corner when we're around:p), and we took a few charges at them, and general arsing about trying to weaken points in the circle so we can break out, but it didn't work. I got arrested by a snatch squad -- that's a group of cops trained to run into a protest, nab the person they're after (usually someone the officer thinks is a "leader"), and get out of there -- because they thought I was an organiser. All I was doing was leading the chant at the time, because nobody else was doing it. I was at the front of the bloc so they probably thought I was directing it, which is funny considering all the cash and resources they spend on tactical analysis and they still haven't understood that that's not how a black bloc works at all.

[Futue te Ipsum]

was the protest legal? It appears odd that a policeman would give himself hours of paper work to puncture a parade of leftist teenagers.

If not... just apply for permission first. :/

[lunchforthesky]

was the protest legal? It appears odd that a policeman would give himself hours of paper work to puncture a parade of leftist teenagers.

If not... just apply for permission first. :/

wouldn't that be legitimising the state

[coheneran]

was the protest legal? It appears odd that a policeman would give himself hours of paper work to puncture a parade of leftist teenagers.

If not... just apply for permission first. :/

It was illegal, that was part of the protest. In a free democracy, we shouldn't have to apply for the right to hold a protest.

Besides which, protest and activity beyond the law is the only way a society changes, there're a myriad historical examples to this, from the women's rights to vote to the homosexuals' rights to exist.

[Futue te Ipsum]

It was illegal, that was part of the protest. In a free democracy, we shouldn't have to apply for the right to hold a protest.Do you know why you have to apply for it?

[coheneran]

Do you know why you have to apply for it?

Do I know their rhetoric or the real reason?

[Futue te Ipsum]

Give both, if you wish.

[coheneran]

The rhetoric is the usual one they use for justifying authoritarian laws and methods to the public, it "ensures the safety of the British people". The real reasons are, off the top of my head: to save the government the embarrassment, to scare the less brave/dedicated reformists into submission (thus decreasing the numbers of groups unloyal to state policy), to set the groundwork for more totalitarian laws and methods.

[Iskandar]

Britain needs some serious reform.

I mean, monarchy? State church? Does anybody actually support these things? Why are they still established?

[lunchforthesky]

Britain needs some serious reform.

I mean, monarchy? State church? Does anybody actually support these things? Why are they still established?

thing is though. although they still exist, as you say they have no support but crucially they have no power like none at all. no-one goes to church, no-one listens to the monarchy.

[Iskandar]

thing is though. although they still exist, as you say they have no support but crucially they have no power like none at all. no-one goes to church, no-one listens to the monarchy.
So that supports my point that they should just be abolished.:)

Who, honestly, would complain?

[coheneran]

Yeah, these are, you could say, "proto-authoritarian" laws, no monarchy would have used them, and they are different in this context. Britain seems to be the global ruling class's experiment in social control and surveillance.

Who, honestly, would complain?

The Conservatives.:p

[lunchforthesky]

So that supports my point that they should just be abolished.:)

Who, honestly, would complain?

yeah hes right conservatives.

but theres no need to get rid of them becasue they have no power. it would just needlessly upset people and lower what we raise from tourism.

[AlienEater]

Just leave the monarchy, it does no harm.

[Smokey D]

Britain needs some serious reform.

I mean, monarchy? State church? Does anybody actually support these things? Why are they still established?

Canada is still a monarchy as well.

I support the existence of the monarchy as long as it is itself supported by the British people. I see no problem with it, and to do away with it would not actually change the political situation in any real way. It would, however, be a major legal issue and would require a very fundemental restructuring of Britain's legal framework.

I don't really see the problem with a state-church. Anglicanism isn't a required religion or anything, and is more linked to the monarchy than to Parliament.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Britain needs some serious reform.

I mean, monarchy? State church? Does anybody actually support these things? Why are they still established?

Nobody cares. I'm captain Atheism and I've never had any issue with the fact that there's a state church; britain is far more religiously tolerant than the nether regions of america.




In other news, £2.90 for a pint and £3.70 for a G&T = EXPENSIVE PARTY

however it being on a sunday = less drinks

so overall it balances out

[lunchforthesky]

getting wasted before you go out is where its at. couldnt do without the local budget booze (local rip off of bargain booze :p)

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

getting wasted before you go out is where its at. couldnt do without the local budget booze (local rip off of bargain booze :p)

"HI MUM I'm drinking to excess please to meet you"


I'm not even 18, and off licenses tend to ID.

[coheneran]

Sometimes I get ID'd, sometimes I don't. Either way, I have powerf- I mean older, friends.

[Futue te Ipsum]

Britain needs some serious reform.

I mean, monarchy? State church? Does anybody actually support these things? Why are they still established?The monarchy is a tourist trap and the state church is entirely optional.

People allow them to go on because they dont make a significant impact on our lives.

Whether the monarchy can still be seen as a tourist trap is up for debate though. I imagine the revenue wouldn't decrease if their palaces were opened to tourists.

[lunchforthesky]

"HI MUM I'm drinking to excess please to meet you"


I'm not even 18, and off licenses tend to ID.

oh right ha i forgot what its like when you cant just drink when you like.

my mum wouldnt care at all how much i drunk after about 16 so long as im not sick in the house.

[Futue te Ipsum]

The rhetoric is the usual one they use for justifying authoritarian laws and methods to the public, it "ensures the safety of the British people". The real reasons are, off the top of my head: to save the government the embarrassment, to scare the less brave/dedicated reformists into submission (thus decreasing the numbers of groups unloyal to state policy), to set the groundwork for more totalitarian laws and methods.1) riot prevention, policing and traffic management if needed.

They also apply to the real reasons.

It's seriously easy to get permission, anyway. Unless you're promoting racial hatred or whatever they call it now.

[Smokey D]

The monarchy is a tourist trap and the state church is entirely optional.

People allow them to go on because they dont make a significant impact on our lives.

Whether the monarchy can still be seen as a tourist trap is up for debate though. I imagine the revenue wouldn't decrease if their palaces were opened to tourists.

Their palaces are mostly open to tourists.

But more importantly, the monarchy donates the money it makes off its estates to the public. If it were abolished, the Windsors would become a private family with vast revenues and no obligation beyond normal taxes to contribute to the nation. I think it would end up being a net financial loss for the government.

[Futue te Ipsum]

"HI MUM I'm drinking to excess please to meet you"


I'm not even 18, and off licenses tend to ID."I'm drunk and um where am I spew?"

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Sometimes I get ID'd, sometimes I don't. Either way, I have powerf- I mean older, friends.

I've never tried and failed to buy alcohol because i can tell very easily hwere will let it slide and where won't



here's a clue

if it's £3.70 for a gin and tonic they want to sell MUCH GINZ

[Futue te Ipsum]

Their palaces are mostly open to tourists.

But more importantly, the monarchy donates the money it makes off its estates to the public. If it were abolished, the Windsors would become a private family with vast revenues and no obligation beyond normal taxes to contribute to the nation. I think it would end up being a net financial loss for the government.I know the queen owns most of mayfair, which considering the £1m+ lease holds (100 years, usually) is a hell of a lot of money. I wasn't aware that they contributed, though.

[lunchforthesky]

she should definately have to pay income tax

[coheneran]

1) riot prevention, policing and traffic management if needed.

Like I said, protest beyond the law is essential for the reformation of society and government.

It's seriously easy to get permission, anyway. Unless you're promoting racial hatred or whatever they call it now.

Of course it is. They even have to give you permission, no matter what the protest is about. So if Al-Qaida wanted to organise a kill-infidel-whitey protest, they'd be allowed. However, nobody should have to ask, and the fact that though you have to ask for permission and they have to give it to you shows that this law isn't grounded in any real pragmatic reasoning, it just sets a groundwork for when they want to crack down hard on dissidence. We could ask for permission and still get our protests, but we want to stop this authoritarian trend before the worst of it starts.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

"I'm drunk and um where am I spew?"

I can take my drinks thanxu

[Smokey D]

she should definately have to pay income tax

She does. Plus donates the entire revenues of her estates. Given she is the largest landowner in the country, they aren't exactly insignificant. For example, in 2002-03 the Crown Estate paid the Treasury £170.8 million in return for an allowance of £7.9 million.

[Futue te Ipsum]

Like I said, protest beyond the law is essential for the reformation of society and government.
I can see we're both going to get dizzy if I don't shut up, so here it is :P

[lunchforthesky]

She does. Plus donates the entire revenues of her estates. Given she is the largest landowner in the country, they aren't exactly insignificant. For example, in 2002-03 the Crown Estate paid the Treasury £170.8 million in return for an allowance of £7.9 million.

fair enough but id give away money i hadnt earnt and had no choice over giving away in exchange for £7.9 million

[Futue te Ipsum]

I can take my drinks thanxuI can take all but lager. That stuff is seriously made out of arsenic.

[coheneran]

I can see we're both going to get dizzy if I don't shut up, so here it is :P

Lol, I'm totally gonna start quoting Howard Zinn more often.:p

"Has anybody seen my ****?
My big Rhode Island Red
He's mostly pink with a little bit of blue
And purple on his head
He stands straight up in the morning
And he gives my wife a shock,
Has anybody seen, anybody seen,
Anybody anybody seen my ****?

[Smokey D]

fair enough but id give away money i hadnt earnt and had no choice over giving away in exchange for £7.9 million

Well, their estates earnt it.

And they're only obligated to give it away because they are the monarchy. If it were abolished, they would become private citizens with extremely large amounts of money.

[lunchforthesky]

Well, their estates earnt it.

And they're only obligated to give it away because they are the monarchy. If it were abolished, they would become private citizens with extremely large amounts of money.

i imagine if they were abolished they wouldnt be allowed to keep there wealth.

[Futue te Ipsum]

how could you justify taking it off them? : /

[coheneran]

how could you justify taking it off them? : /

Zis iz commyunizzum.

[Smokey D]

That would require a revolution, not the orderly referendum which might actually happen.

[coheneran]

He said "justify", not "implement".

[Iskandar]

He said "justify", not "implement".
It could be implemented in a variety of ways, some better than others, and it'd be justified in that they didn't really do anything to deserve it. Born into a royal family, relic of feudal society? What the hell?

[coheneran]

Hahaha, I'm totally DIY recording at 4am.

I've been saying "totally" a lot today. It stops here, before I turn into a Valley Girl.

[Smokey D]

It could be implemented in a variety of ways, some better than others, and it'd be justified in that they didn't really do anything to deserve it. Born into a royal family, relic of feudal society? What the hell?

Well, their ancestors probably did something to deserve it, and they're entitled to inherit the proceeds of their ancestors deeds as much as any other person.

I can't remember whether you favoured abolishing inheritence, though.

[Iskandar]

Well, their ancestors probably did something to deserve it, and they're entitled to inherit the proceeds of their ancestors deeds as much as any other person.

I can't remember whether you favoured abolishing inheritence, though.
I doubt it, really. British royalty, in origin, was just those whom the people allowed to take power.

I did favour abolishing inheritance.

[Smokey D]

I doubt it, really. British royalty, in origin, was just those whom the people allowed to take power.

At first instance, only the able take power.


I did favour abolishing inheritance

I disagree anyone controlling what I do with my wealth but myself.

[coheneran]

If we raised kids the Innuit way, everyone would start off with equal opportunities for advancement, which means individuals would progress depending on their merit, not on their parents's.

[PerpetualBurn]

We'll settle it the old Inuit way: First one to club a seal wins.

[Iskandar]

I disagree anyone controlling what I do with my wealth but myself.
How is it yours if you're a corpse?

[lunchforthesky]

I doubt it, really. British royalty, in origin, was just those whom the people allowed to take power.

I did favour abolishing inheritance.

do you not have the right to say what happens to your wealth after you die?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

do you not have the right to say what happens to your wealth after you die?

He doesn't think so

He doesn't see this as an incentive for the aged to spend wildly on things they don't need pushing prices up needlessly either

[Amit]

How is it yours if you're a corpse?

well that's what a will is for

[Mr. Ron]

How is it yours if you're a corpse?

Um, b/c i'm a Lv20 necromancer and I can cast a resurrection spell duh.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

If we raised kids the Innuit way, everyone would start off with equal opportunities for advancement, which means individuals would progress depending on their merit, not on their parents's.

True meritocracy requires shi'tting on those who don't have "it" though.

[RIP Ian Curtis]

Possibly, depends on if I have anything of value to society. Which I don't, being more inclined towards the creative side of things. Hence I don't support total meritocracy, otherwise I would be dead.

[veggie 3.14]

I thought this was a community thread where we talked mindlessly for a while, not had arguments about the monarchy!

Stupid MX.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I thought this was a community thread where we talked mindlessly for a while, not had arguments about the monarchy!

Stupid MX.

no seriously would you rather there was a thread about it

[Iskandar]

He doesn't see this as an incentive for the aged to spend wildly on things they don't need pushing prices up needlessly either
Uh, a small demographic is going to drive up prices. Ok.

Somebody explain to me how a dead's man property remains his after he ceases to exist.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Uh, a small demographic is going to drive up prices. Ok


You think "the retired" are a small demographic?

[Iskandar]

You think "the retired" are a small demographic?
Uh, they aren't?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Uh, they aren't?

not anymore. Not when they'll have 10 years to live as much life as they can so that the objective is to have £0 of assets the moment you die.

[Iskandar]

not anymore. Not when they'll have 10 years to live as much life as they can so that the objective is to have £0 of assets the moment you die.
I'll argue this line once you convince me a corpse has property rights.

[Smokey D]

How is it yours if you're a corpse?

By the time your dead, you've already gifted it away.

[Iskandar]

By the time your dead, you've already gifted it away.
Then give as much wealth away as you can during your life, because a dead man can't.

[Amit]

what about a will

[Iskandar]

what about a will
That's just a legal document handling the property of someone who no longer exists.