PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[Mr. Ron]

Why would you like a place that looked dirty?

I don't mean quaint, i mean dirty.

Well, I like the whole dark-ish thing about London mainly because I'm a fan of Sir Arthur Conan doyle's novels. :(

[Smokey D]

I don't know who that is.

Some of London is very impressive and I suppose I'm comparing apples and oranges a bit since I have never really been outside of Paris proper, which is highly maintained, and into the banlieues and suburbs. But London is wet and crowded and grimy and inefficient.

I'll still probably go and live tehre at some point, though.


Urban and pastoral work together seamlessly in this city—it is like something JRR Tolkien would have imagined

Oslo is tiny though. It's easy to make a city look pastoral when it's not much bigger than a small town.

[Iskandar]

560,484 in Oslo proper? What the hell? How did this become a capital city?

[mph4ever]

560,484 in Oslo proper? What the hell? How did this become a capital city?

coz its in norway

[Der Übermensch]

DC has only 588k...

[1338 h4x0r]

I'll still probably go and live tehre at some point, though.

My ideal city is Kiruna but I have to find out how good the Kiruna Stadsbibliotek is

[mph4ever]

My ideal city is Kiruna but I have to find out how good the Kiruna Stadsbibliotek is

my ideal city is mos eisley

[1338 h4x0r]

Too hot

[mph4ever]

great jazz though

[dei]

these places don't even exist.

[Mr. Ron]

I don't know who that is.

Some of London is very impressive and I suppose I'm comparing apples and oranges a bit since I have never really been outside of Paris proper, which is highly maintained, and into the banlieues and suburbs. But London is wet and crowded and grimy and inefficient.

I'll still probably go and live tehre at some point, though.



Oslo is tiny though. It's easy to make a city look pastoral when it's not much bigger than a small town.

The author of Sherlock Holmes?

[dei]

i want to read up on the history of the united states. it's pretty embarrassing to know so little about it. and also i want to be a nationalistic asshole. so like what do i do.

[Der Übermensch]

Want book recommendations?
Savage Wars of Peace. On of my fav history books.

[Mr. Ron]

Almost a miracle by John Ferling is a great book on the American revolution.

[dei]

thanks. i'll pick these up tomorrow if i can.

[Dr Hooch]

I don't much like london.

Come to bristol instead.

[PerpetualBurn]

As a Northerner, I can say with some volition that I do not want to live in London for any extended period of time.

Nice place to visit though.

[Futue te Ipsum]

London is an awful place to live in. Mostly because it's 3x more expensive than the rest of the country.

[mph4ever]

i want to read up on the history of the united states. it's pretty embarrassing to know so little about it. and also i want to be a nationalistic spatula. so like what do i do.

a history of the american people - paul johnson

from walter raleigh to bill clinton, its not critical in any way, just focuses on events and people over the past 400 years. johnson is a genius, take advantage of it

[Akira]

John McCain is doubling down on his surge/awakening thing, and lying in the process.
"He didn’t just advocate defeat, he tried to legislate it. If Senator Obama had prevailed, American forces would have had to retreat under fire. The Iraqi Army would have collapsed. Civilian casualties would have increased dramatically. Al Qaeda would have killed the Sunni sheiks who had begun to cooperate with us, and the “Sunni Awakening” would have been strangled at birth."

Hey Johnny, the major sheik was killed by Al Qaeda.

[Hababi]

You're nitpicking. Obama opposed the surge, saying it would fail. It worked. Obama blundered on the most major decision during his rather brief and unremarkable time as the junior senator from Illinois.

[Akira]

You're picking a selective example of judgment though. It is unreasonable to say that McCain supporting the surge and Obama having opposed it is a huge issue (McCain is basically making it the sole issue of his campaign, save offshore drilling) while the fact that McCain supported the war from the start while Obama opposed it is irrelevant.

McCain showed better judgment in supporting the surge. I can admit that. I've never advocated getting out of Iraq as quickly as possibly at any cost. But Obama showed better judgment in opposing the war. To magnify the former while trivializing the latter is fundamentally dishonest.

[Hababi]

You don't know how Obama would've voted had he been a senator. He was out of the senate and so his opposition to the invasion means little. Look at their actions when both were in the senate.

[Akira]

You have no evidence to suggest that Obama would have felt differently about the war if he was in the Senate at the time. That's just character assassination.

[Hababi]

You have no evidence to suggest that Obama would have felt differently about the war if he was in the Senate at the time. That's just character assassination.

Not really. Edwards says that he wasn't wild about going into Iraq but felt pressured due to his status in the Senate to support it. Obama has no track record of taking a brave stand. As a left wing politician in a liberal area of Illinois, opposing the war was expedient.

[Hababi]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-edcart-multimediagallery,0,5944816.gallery

[Amit]

opposing the war in iraq is also the correct stance

[Akira]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-edcart-multimediagallery,0,5944816.gallery

That cartoon would be funnier if it wasn't stupid.

I repeat what I said before: only America's right could make reaching out to other nations a bad thing.

[Akira]

Not really. Edwards says that he wasn't wild about going into Iraq but felt pressured due to his status in the Senate to support it. Obama has no track record of taking a brave stand. As a left wing politician in a liberal area of Illinois, opposing the war was expedient.

Just like it was expedient for McCain to support Roe v Wade?

[Hababi]

Just like it was expedient for McCain to support Roe v Wade?

No, that'd have been like pushing for prohibition. You may support it, you may seek other ways to limit alcohol distribution, but banning it brought more negatives.

[Akira]

That analogy seems to lack the fact that change occurred. Do you think that, at a later date, Prohibition would have been feasible?

[Hababi]

That analogy seems to lack the fact that change occurred. Do you think that, at a later date, Prohibition would have been feasible?

No, but that doesn't mean that prohibitionists didn't think it would. Heck, there's still a Prohibitionist Party.

[Knifeboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-OpIXfXKO8

[Hababi]

eww keith olbermann

[Amit]

eww john mccentury

[PerpetualBurn]

In a few short hours I'm setting off on a journey to sunny Michigan to visit a good friend of mine. This may mean I'm not online for a couple of weeks.

I thought I'd warn you in case Siva and Zero start to worry about my absence. I know they'll miss me.

[Mr. Ron]

Safe travels.

[PerpetualBurn]

I have two stops on the way, and I haven't been in an airport since I was about 9, so I'm somewhat unsure of myself.

My main worry is that making a bomb joke will be too tempting.

[Knifeboy]

beware of the terrorists!

They bite

[PerpetualBurn]

I think airports are a no-brown zone nowadays, so I'm safe.

[Mr. Ron]

Thank goodness.

[PerpetualBurn]

Or maybe that's just in Australia.

I forget.

[gregulus]

I was browsing facebook a minute ago and discovered that two people who went to my high school have turned into huge fundamentalist christians--the type that put a piece of tape with "life" written on it and take a minute of silence to "end abortion." Apparently they started going to this (literal) christian night club sort of thing and are now way into Jesus.

[BridgeToSolace]

What happens at Christian night clubs?

But yeah, weird how people change.

I live in a town of mostly jews, so I'm not worried most of my friends becoming fundamentalist Christians.

[Amit]

wow greg

check the id3 tags of their winamp for genre

see if they listen to this: http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7696/wutvb3.jpg

[1338 h4x0r]

http://dablackmamba.blogspot.com/2006/05/christian-gangsta-rap.html

[Amit]

haha i love how it's salman rushdie and amartya sen (they're two of my favorite authors)

[1338 h4x0r]

The 'genre' field in an older id3 header was a single byte. In all likelihood, they didn't bother to label the genre and it got filled in with some random junk that so happened to correspond with 'Christian Gangsta Rap'.

[spitfirejunky]

I trap all day, pray all night.

Go getta.

[1338 h4x0r]

Yo Satan

I'll put a sign on yo back dat says you can't rap
And a mark on yo face dat says you can't scrap

[mph4ever]

Yo Satan

I'll put a sign on yo back dat says you can't rap
And a mark on yo face dat says you can't scrap

tends not to go with the avatar

[1338 h4x0r]

How did you guess that I'm really a white man who doesn't believe in Christianity and listens to a lot of metal

[mph4ever]

How did you guess that I'm really a white man who doesn't believe in Christianity and listens to a lot of metal

its sort of obvious

[1338 h4x0r]

You don't know what I look like!

[Mr. Ron]

I know :>

[1338 h4x0r]

oh yeah

eh heh heh heh heh

[mph4ever]

You don't know what I look like!


haven't got a clue but you don't look anything like your avatar

[Mr. Ron]

That could be easily fixed. *gets sharp stick*

[McP3000]

who is that in his avatar

i mean, by who i mean which LotR character is it?

[1338 h4x0r]

It's the Norse god Odin silly :)

[McP3000]

no its not

[Amit]

I trap all day, pray all night.

Go getta.

lmfao +rep

[1338 h4x0r]

no its not

It's part of the painting Oden som vandringsman (Odin as a wanderer) by Georg von Rosen

Art is cool

[Smokey D]

Not fantasy art.

[McP3000]

or modern art

i hate most modern art

[Smokey D]

Modern art is awesome.

Modern art is like the antithesis of shitty fantasy art.

[McP3000]

what about the art where they have a white canvas with a red dot on it? Or the art thats just a stencil of a box, or what about something ordinary with different colors in different spaces, or about just splatter paint.

all of that **** is hogwash tbh

[iwrestledabearonce]

i like francis bacon paintings :)

[Smokey D]

No. It's awesome. Or it can be if it's good modern art.

Modern art is not about figure or representation and that's why a lot of people don't like it. I don't wanna sound pretentious, but to do that is to miss the point. Modern art (in the sense I think we both mean, not just old styles reproduced in the modern era) is an exploration of meta-art, of what it means to be art. It's about assessing the role of the constituent formal elements of art (originally line, form, colour, space etc but you could probably extend it to viewer and creator today) without restricting the exploration to the reproduction of figurative forms. It is the logic of cubism taken to its conclusion, but I'd hate to think you hate cubism.

Being able to paint a pretty picture, no matter how perfectly, without assessing the elements of art is not art but illustration, signal without noise.

[Dr Hooch]

I actually totally agree with smokey. People who don't like any art at all often say "oh i hate modern art where's the skill in that" but frankly it's just an easy target.

"what is art" is a really interesting idea to explore.

[gregulus]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=152727637

That is said clubs myspace. This can't be real.

[gregulus]

Oh lawd...

Over 6,000 teenagers, college students, and adults come together to worhsip JESUS CHRIST! Featuring christian rap artists such as Da Burnin' Bush, DPB, and Evangelest Matt Pitt. Come and see what seems to be the topic of every conversation in the city of Birmingham, AL.

[beans]

:lol: awesome

[1338 h4x0r]

Not fantasy art.

Uhhh ... Oden som vandringsman was painted in 1886 and doesn't fall under the heading of 'fantasy art' because that fiction genre didn't really exist at the time—at least not as we know it now

Unless you count the Elder Edda as fantasy fiction

[gregulus]

wow greg

check the id3 tags of their winamp for genre

see if they listen to this: http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7696/wutvb3.jpg

One of the music sections said "anything that brings me closer to him," so I'm sure he eats that up.

[Smokey D]

Uhhh ... Oden som vandringsman was painted in 1886 and doesn't fall under the heading of 'fantasy art' because that fiction genre didn't really exist at the time—at least not as we know it now

Unless you count the Elder Edda as fantasy fiction

Then he was a shitty realist with shitty subject matter. It's not a big difference.

[1338 h4x0r]

Then he was a shitty realist with shitty subject matter. It's not a big difference.

Lies.

Odin is first-rate subject matter.

But the best artist of all time is Theodor Kittelsen

http://www.kittelsen.ru/archive/sorgen.jpg (Sorrow)

wow

[Smokey D]

That's much closer to forms of Romanticism and even some modern styles (shades of Rothko, for example) than your avatar, though.

http://www.sauer-thompson.com/junkforcode/archives/2008/05/02/McCahonVictoryOverDeath2.jpg

That's one of my favourite paintings, although that might be because it is very NZ in style and content.

[1338 h4x0r]

I just like Theodor Kittelsen cause he made paintings about the Black Plague and sadness and trolls and stuff

[Smokey D]

Pretty boring subject matter but he's stylistically quite modern, at least in that painting you posted. Looking at his other work, not so much. It looks like the stuff you get in illustrated copies of the Hobbit.

[1338 h4x0r]

The Black Death, sadness and trolls are interesting subject matters

Kittelsen also illustrated children's books

[Smokey D]

Kittelsen also illustrated children's books

It shows.

The Black Death, sadness and trolls are interesting subject matters

Not for the purposes of art since they don't say anything about the production of art. They are the mechanical application of techniques long since perfected techniques of approximating realistic images.

[1338 h4x0r]

#doesNotUnderstand

[Smokey D]

It's okay. Since you don't like post-modernism I don't expect you do appreciate modern art theory.

Basically, they might be interesting iconographically but the works themselves are pretty dull stylistically. As I say, illustrations not art.

[1338 h4x0r]

It's okay. Since you don't like post-modernism I don't expect you do appreciate modern art theory.

You haven't taken into consideration that my apparent disdain for criticisms of Theodor Kittelsen is actually a commentary on the oafish, strictly practical mindset of the 21st century that I so despise.

[Smokey D]

You haven't taken into consideration that my apparent disdain for criticisms of Theodor Kittelsen is actually a commentary on the oafish, strictly practical mindset of the 21st century that I so despise.

Oafish?

There's nothing strictly practical about it. Ugly but highly formal art is probably not as good as good simplistic pseudo-realism. But confusing iconography for art is silly.

Also, I said appreciate, not understand. I know you don't like it.

[1338 h4x0r]

Well you already know that I have a poor grasp of things that are really really nebulous

Remember:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/android.htm
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm

If the nebulous subject in question isn't an important and very abstract theorem, the following chain of thoughts happens


#doesNotUnderstand, therefore
It doesn't concern me, therefore
Get that **** out of here, therefore
Get. Out.

[Dr Hooch]

oh **** off back to isengard or something

[1338 h4x0r]

Get. Out.

[Amit]

no seriously i hear they're taking the hobbits to isengard so you better go!

[1338 h4x0r]

Oh yeah I remember that song it sounds like that terrible Swedish techno music I listen to occasionally

[Amit]

lol young white male

[1338 h4x0r]

I listen to more embarrassing music than that

We've thrown away our former gods
Controlling our day
We have created better ones
So we control the way

We are the ones with the power
To hold down the enemy
Our gods are perfection
And they are protecting our lives
We still need some more of them
To be safe from the other side
As long as we're stronger
Nothing will happen to us

Fire flash in the night
Just an evil dream
Holy war in the sky—never

Error in store 103
We watch the sun at night
The pretty gods we're built ourselves
Now terminate our lives
Silicon brain powered voices
Are crying "attack" tonight
Our gods are now fighting
In anger, burning our world
Doomsday has come
And there is no place to hide away
The future is over
And there is no turning back
Fire flash in the night
Now reality
Holy war in the sky

Twilight of the gods
Insania's dead and gone
Another world was born
But the twilight soon will come

Fire flash in the night
Now reality
Holy war in the sky

Twilight of the gods
Insania's dead and gone
Another world was born
But the twilight soon will come

[Amit]

i listen to rhapsody of fire for lols and sometimes during weightlifting

[1338 h4x0r]

previous song was by Helloween

one song by Rhapsody I've listened to a lot recently is Il Canto Del Vento (The Song of the Wind) off of their latest album, Triumph or Agony

it's bombastic as any of their songs but not in so much of a video game way

[Aaron]

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ego.htm

Steve much?

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah Steve likes to tell me I'm "an autistic troll" in my threads—out of context—and then I reveal his real name

har har, collateral damage!

[Hababi]

Blackwater+Obama: http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/7/25/blackwater-got-the-gig-securing-obama-in-afghanistan.html

[Dr Hooch]

yeah, i agree, hypocrite. Shouldn't be having to do anything with blackwater anyway, never mind after he (rightly) critisized them.

[1338 h4x0r]

That is kind of a wa-wa moment

Did he choose that bodyguard?

[Akira]

A) I doubt Obama played any part in hiring his own security detail

B) If I went to Iraq, I quite frankly would want Blackwater protecting me. :p The whole "shoot first, never ask questions" thing is, if nothing else, a good way to protect your clients.

[BridgeToSolace]

i listen to rhapsody of fire for lols and sometimes during weightlifting

Dragonland is also much lulz.

[Akira]

http://www.parentstv.org/PTC/news/release/2008/0721.asp

Hahahaha.
"The court’s opinion goes beyond judicial activism; it borders on judicial stupidity."

Yeah, stupid court. How dare it make a ruling that is in line with both precedent and FCC regulations? That's just scandalous.

[Smokey D]

PTC is clearly full of crazy people.

I hate it when people cry judicial activism because usually it's the courts doing what they've always done and supplemented statute through the common law. Anyone in the law making process understands the vital role the courts play in making law. Calling it out as judicial activism just weakens the point when real judicial activism occurs.

[Akira]

PTC seems to be one of those groups that screens programming none of its members would ever watch in order to find things to complain about.

[Mr. Ron]

a lot of modern art is stupid

/late

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah but it isn't boring like shitty fantasy art

http://www.elfove.mysteria.cz/gondolin.jpg

I mean, come on

[Mr. Ron]

Yeah, thats one of my favorite paintings, but I'm a giant nerd so thats to be expected. :>

[1338 h4x0r]

You Philistine

[mph4ever]

back in the day, we used the phrase cultural philistine to denote anyone who just didn't get it, one day a girl that used to hear us say this took a meeting, and someone said something that led you to believe they didn't get it, and the girl piped up, proud as punch, and said, go away out of that you cultural palestinian

[1338 h4x0r]

Well almost the same ****

But still

If you don't like modern art, go play D&D and jack off to fantasy art you nerd

[sweboy]

Haxor you heard of John Bauer? His vibe is kind of similar to Kittelsen, except less grim. He's all about Scandinavian nature/folklore.

[1338 h4x0r]

Less grim?

That will not do

[Chu]

Less grim?

That will not do
That's so good Chris :)

[thedeadwalk!]

Anyone seen The Squid and the Whale? Jeff Daniels plays an academic snob who calls people philistines. It's hilarious.

[1338 h4x0r]

You Philistine!

'Philistine' is almost as high as 'regardless' on my list of favorite words

[thedeadwalk!]

I'm a fan of "phraseology."

[1338 h4x0r]

LOL, 'phraseology' sounds like a word Porky Pig would use a lot

Don't ask me why

[Radiobass81]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7mA7uyivl6E

[Smokey D]

Yeah but it isn't boring like poopty fantasy art

http://www.elfove.mysteria.cz/gondolin.jpg

I mean, come on

That's closer to romanticism then fantasy art. Except for it's crappy subject matter and poor execution of the non-mountain bits.

There haven't been significant improvements in that sort of style since the 18th century, and to be frank, it pales in comparison to the work of the masters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:JWW_TheLadyOfShallot_1888.jpg

Or
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/The_Cardsharps.jpg

Or
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/09julius.jpg/89px-09julius.jpg


That's how you do figurative art.
a lot of modern art is stupid

Example?

I'd say a lot of modern art is ugly but that's a different point.

I'd also say that quite a lot of it is stupid, but I just don't look at that stuff.



If you don't like modern art, go play D&D and jack off to fantasy art you nerd

You don't need to like it but take it on it's own terms. If you try and apply your fantasy art logic to something that's completely opposed to that sort of subject matter and style, it's no surprise why why you don't get it.

[McP3000]

the problem with a lot of modern art is that it tries to be "modern" just for the sake of being "modern". Not to mention it can be overtly simple and inartistic and yet still sell for thousands of dollars.

[Smokey D]

the problem with a lot of modern art is that it tries to be "modern" just for the sake of being "modern".

What does this mean?

Not to mention it can be overtly simple and inartistic and yet still sell for thousands of dollars.

The money isn't being paid for the labour put in it's being paid for the idea.

[1338 h4x0r]

That's closer to romanticism then fantasy art.

I had no idea there was a single unifying stylistic convention behind 'fantasy art' that distinguishes it from all others.

Except for it's crappy subject matter and poor execution of the non-mountain bits.

It's Gondolin.

There haven't been significant improvements in that sort of style since the 18th century, and to be frank, it pales in comparison to the work of the masters.

What 'style'?

Example?

http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/imgs/artists/emin-tracey/tracey-emin-my-bed.jpg

Critically acclaimed.

My room is a masterpiece.

You don't need to like it but take it on it's own terms. If you try and apply your fantasy art logic to something that's completely opposed to that sort of subject matter and style, it's no surprise why why you don't get it.

Well my failure to understand a lot of modern art is at least partly neurological

But still, I definitely like surrealism and a lot of abstract painters, plus I appreciate creative use of 'found objects' (i.e., not just shitting up your bed)

So I don't see why you continue to pick at my opinions

[McP3000]

What does this mean?
It means that a lot of modern art is pretentious, self-aware, and often have forced and abstract metaphors.

The money isn't being paid for the labour put in it's being paid for the idea.
im not talking about labor im talking about talent

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm going to auction my room as art on eBay, how much do you think I'll get for it

[McP3000]

some lotr fag will buy it for 400 gold pieces

[Aaron]

What does this mean?
Using post-modernism to justify not having talent.
"It's not ****, it's post-modern."

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah I think most of us here on PNWI are more tolerant of different art styles than the average bear. Personally, I will never call for an artist to be censored because I don't like him, nor will I ever say something isn't art because I don't like it, but I do reserve the right to opinions on what I think is cool.

some lotr fag will buy it for 400 gold pieces

AWESOME! Now I can finally trade in my pissy bastard sword for that poisoned +3 Zweihänder that I've wanted for months!

[Smokey D]

I had no idea there was a single unifying stylistic convention behind 'fantasy art' that distinguishes it from all others.


Subject matter is the main quality.

But stylistically they are usually very similar. I wouldn't call an Annunciation by Leonardo fantasy art even though it clearly depicts a fantastical event. Same with surrealism.

It's Gondolin

Referring to an imaginary city I had to look up from a crappy book isn't really helping your case.

What 'style'?

I guess you'd call it fantastical realism.

Critically acclaimed.

My room is a masterpiece.

I'm not a huge fan of most modern sculpture or installation art, but what it's trying to saying is a lot more important than the medium.


Well my failure to understand a lot of modern art is at least partly neurological

Sounds kinda like a cop out since you are pretty capable of appreciating other forms of art.

But still, I definitely like surrealism and a lot of abstract painters, plus I appreciate creative use of 'found objects' (i.e., not just poopting up your bed)

Surely you see the distinction between found art and 'poopting up your bed' is highly arbitrary.

So I don't see why you continue to pick at my opinions

Firstly, because they bug me.

Secondly, if you don't want your opinions to be assessed, analysed and criticised don't post on a public forum esepcially one whose principle goal is debate and critique!

It means that a lot of modern art is pretentious, self-aware, and often have forced and abstract metaphors.

Pretentious, maybe.
Self-aware is often the point
I don't really like the metaphorical stuff.

im not talking about labor im talking about talent

Same deal, though. It's the idea they're paying for.

Using post-modernism to justify not having talent.
"It's not ****, it's post-modern.

It can be **** and art at the same time.

Also, modern art isn't post modern art.

[Meatplow]

you can slap the camp label on any art that is bad and someone will appreciate it

[dei]

Guys, I am moving back to the right. :(

[1338 h4x0r]

Referring to an imaginary city I had to look up from a crappy book isn't really helping your case.


Firstly, because they bug me.

Secondly, if you don't want your opinions to be assessed, analysed and criticised don't post on a public forum esepcially one whose principle goal is debate and critique!


You called a painting bad because its subject matter is a fictional city from "a crappy book".

ITT: stimulating debate and critique :lol:

[Smokey D]

You called a painting bad because its subject matter is a fictional city from "a crappy book".


No, I'm calling it boring because of it's subject matter.
I'm calling it bad because has poor composition and confusing perspective.

[1338 h4x0r]

Well that's a matter of opinion isn't it

[Morgoth:]
Sit now there,
And look out upon the lands
Where evil and despair shall come upon those whom thou lovest

Thou hast dared to mock me, and to question the power of Melkor, Master of the fates of Arda

Therefore, with my eyes thou shalt see
And with my ears thou shalt hear;
And never shalt thou move from this place
Until all is fulfilled unto its bitter end (end end end end...)

[Orcs:]
Lord and Master! Lord and Master!
Lord and Master! Lord and Master!
Lord and Master! Lord and Master!
Lord and Master! Lord and Master!

LORD!

[Smokey D]

Execution is pretty objective.

[1338 h4x0r]

What's wrong with the execution of the city

[Meatplow]

master of the fates of arda :lol:

[Smokey D]

What's wrong with the execution of the city

It looks flat and the space between the man and the valley is unconvincing.

[1338 h4x0r]

So what if the area around they city looks flat, the Elves are farming there

The depth sure convinced me ... especially since formal geometric perspective was used

[Smokey D]

So what if the area around they city looks flat, the Elves are farming there

Flat with respect to the picture plane.


The depth sure convinced me ... especially since formal geometric perspective was used

Doesn't look like it. It looks more like he's relying on overlapping objects to create depth. Seems to me that he tried to be too ambitious with his juxtaposition of the person, the city and the mountains.

[1338 h4x0r]

Well he did and I checked

[Smokey D]

Okay so he did it badly. That's what I'm saying.

I think the hard whiteness of the city is what ruins the illusion.

[1338 h4x0r]

Gondolin is supposed to look like that

[McP3000]

I love gondolas

[Smokey D]

Probably. Doesn't really change the fact that having a big blob of hard white in the middle of a composition is going to spoil the illusion of depth.

[1338 h4x0r]

I guess a purple Gondolin would look better

[Smokey D]

As if that has anything to do with how convincing the illusion of depth is.

[1338 h4x0r]

I sure as hell am convinced

[Dave de Sylvia]

Surely something white in the distance would be less white than that. Especially since the sky appears overcast.

[1338 h4x0r]

There's a gap in the clouds, see the upper-left hand corner

Plus it's a High Elven city

I can't believe I'm debating this

[Dave de Sylvia]

You started it!

[1338 h4x0r]

That's debatable and, in any case, I still can hardly believe that I'm debating over the composition values of a painting of Gondolin

[Dave de Sylvia]

I DON'T EVEN kNOW WHAT A GONDOLIN IS

[1338 h4x0r]

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/gondolin.html

It means '[the] hidden rock'

[Dave de Sylvia]

it's grey in that picture

[Chu]

Chris, you could always get on MSN and discuss Set Theory with me and my GHCi :)

[1338 h4x0r]

Affirmative.

[Aaron]

It can be **** and art at the same time.

Also, modern art isn't post modern art.
There's also a difference between the modernist movement in art, the post-modernist reaction to it, and art that exists in both [ie badly executed art]. Appreciation of art may be subjective, but technique is not; I can't call myself a good juggler if all I can juggle is one ball, people may like the way I "juggle" one ball, or even the pretty simplicity of it's bright red colour, but in reality I'm throwing a single ball up and down, not juggling.



ps. sorry if it appears i've been having a go at you today, for some reason in every thread we're on opposing sides of the discussion consistently recently.

[Mr. Ron]

Example?

I'd say a lot of modern art is ugly but that's a different point.

I'd also say that quite a lot of it is stupid, but I just don't look at that stuff.



You don't need to like it but take it on it's own terms. If you try and apply your fantasy art logic to something that's completely opposed to that sort of subject matter and style, it's no surprise why why you don't get it.

Walk into the MoMA in NYC. An entire building of wha I think is just ugly and stupid modern art (Save some peices). Yeah yeah yeah "They make it look that way for a reason." But I just don't like the idea of people masturbating over an off-white canvas pretending like they somehow connect with it in a deep and philosophical way. I totally accept that its all art, but just really, really bad looking art.

I took some pictures when I was there, this is the stuff that pisses me off:

http://i37.tinypic.com/vsgk0w.jpg

^^^ I bet that artist is laughing all the the to the bank

http://i35.tinypic.com/euqyxh.jpg

^^^ A pink light in a random corner. Fascinating.

http://i35.tinypic.com/359elh3.jpg

^^^ These two were sitting in front of this piece for about 20 minutes saying how they liked the colors....





I liked some things that may seem modern so maybe I'm just a hypocrite:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2w69jr4.jpg
^^^ I don't think Diane Arbus is modern.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2yv8oy1.jpg
^^^Old projector filming a piece of metal while snow falls on it. it lasts for about 7 hours.


http://i35.tinypic.com/2gwv0d2.jpg
^^^Idk why I liked this, but I did. It looks much better in real life.

[guitrguy]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2gwv0d2.jpg
^^^Idk why I liked this, but I did. It looks much better in real life.

probably cause it's grim as ****.

[Mr. Ron]

\m/

[Der Übermensch]

Walk into the MoMA in NYC. An entire building of wha I think is just ugly and stupid modern art (Save some peices). Yeah yeah yeah "They make it look that way for a reason." But I just don't like the idea of people masturbating over an off-white canvas pretending like they somehow connect with it in a deep and philosophical way. I totally accept that its all art, but just really, really bad looking art.

I took some pictures when I was there, this is the stuff that pisses me off:

http://i37.tinypic.com/vsgk0w.jpg

^^^ I bet that artist is laughing all the the to the bank

http://i35.tinypic.com/euqyxh.jpg

^^^ A pink light in a random corner. Fascinating.

http://i35.tinypic.com/359elh3.jpg

^^^ These two were sitting in front of this piece for about 20 minutes saying how they liked the colors....





I liked some things that may seem modern so maybe I'm just a hypocrite:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2w69jr4.jpg
^^^ I don't think Diane Arbus is modern.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2yv8oy1.jpg
^^^Old projector filming a piece of metal while snow falls on it. it lasts for about 7 hours.


http://i35.tinypic.com/2gwv0d2.jpg
^^^Idk why I liked this, but I did. It looks much better in real life.

Being the child of a professional artist and an art teacher, I am in complete agreement. Modern art is a scam, and it seems to me that the least talented artists are the ones who get the most for their work.
I can appreciate the people who did it first... to a degree. Warhol, I think his stuff is crap, but hey, he was original. Duchamp's Fountain... the most absurd piece ever... but he was awesome for doing it. But now people just keep doing the same thing and it's pointless.
The art has become more about status symbols then the actual appreciation of beauty it once was. A multi-millionaire buys that white canvas not because it is worth 100k, but because he wants to show he can spend 100k on something so useless.
My roommate last year did a paper on this subject, and some of the examples he found we just mind-boggling. Someone who took a **** in a can... and some woman who literally had everything in her bedroom put into a display, and all it was was her messy bedroom... and of course the pisschrist one...

**** modern art and **** the false pretentiousness that allows it to flourish.

[guitrguy]

I like Picasso and Salvador Dali.

[Der Übermensch]

Yeah. Dali is absolutely amazing (Surrealism, imo, was the last great art movement).

His later stuff got kinda weird though... got caught up in his own cult of personality.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm a fan of still life a lot.

[guitrguy]

The more bizarre the better, imo. That's a big reason why I like Dali.

[Der Übermensch]

Yeah. It wasn't bizarre like his early works. He got super religious in his work for awhile (I think 50's or so), just didn't appeal to me like his early stuff..

One of my fav little anecdotes about him in later life is that he would get reams of paper, sign the paper, then send it to the printers to make "limited edition prints." Thus, signed prints of Dali are almost worthless :p

[Mr. Ron]

haha




I really dig this guy: http://www.beksinski.pl/

[dei]

So what happens now that I am conservative?

[guitrguy]

you babble about the bible and slander liberals and avoid addressing content

[dei]

Strawman.

[guitrguy]

and you shoot up liberal churches.

[dei]

What about abortion clinics? Am I supposed to firebomb them now?

[guitrguy]

yes

[thedeadwalk!]

And be afraid of minorities.

[Mr. Ron]

So what happens now that I am conservative?

What changed you?

[Dr Hooch]

So what happens now that I am conservative?

you relinquish your national insurance card and get on the army bus for reprocessing.

[dei]

What changed you?

I'm not sure, tbh.

[DBoons Ghost]

MOMA sucks balls.

The Met is the right place to go. MOMA is only good for some Dali, Escher and maybe Roberto Matta.

[mph4ever]

i got the fright of my life coz i forgot i was looking at general for a minute and saw brangelina being mentioned - scary, i thought you guys were messed up - trippy

[dei]

I had no idea Bobby Jindal was so crazy.

[Amit]

those browns are ****ing insane

[mph4ever]

i could understand someone coverting from catholicism but not to catholicism

[Aaron]

I'm a fan of still life a lot.
Monet's Waterlillies FTW

[Mr. Ron]

People like this make me think that voter restrictions would be a good idea:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SYzMkmpmaTE&feature=iv

[mph4ever]

People like this make me think that voter restrictions would be a good idea:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SYzMkmpmaTE&feature=iv

i want some of that

[Radiobass81]

Reminds me of that guy in There Will Be Blood :p.

[gregulus]

people Like This Make Me Think That Voter Restrictions Would Be A Good Idea:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=syzmkmpmate&feature=iv

brilliant!

[Smokey D]

There's a gap in the clouds, see the upper-left hand corner

Two things about visual effects and painting.

1) The further back in the painting, the bluer the image should become. This is atmospheric perspective. Having a hard white blob halfway back with no obvious colour change damages this illusion (I understand that iconographically it's meant to be gleaming white or whatever, but that's a separate issue).

2) Blocks of colour anywhere in the painting return the image to the picture plane. So again, the hard whiteness of the city pulls the image forward which messes with the perspective he's obtained elsewhere in teh painting.

There's also a difference between the modernist movement in art, the post-modernist reaction to it, and art that exists in both [ie badly executed art]. Appreciation of art may be subjective, but technique is not; I can't call myself a good juggler if all I can juggle is one ball, people may like the way I "juggle" one ball, or even the pretty simplicity of it's bright red colour, but in reality I'm throwing a single ball up and down, not juggling.

No, that's a no-true Scotsman fallacy.

You're saying 'it's not art unless it conforms to my preformed conceptions of what art should be', when clearly the topic is highly contested and constantly evolving.

Juggling, on the other hand, entails more than just throwing one ball up and down.

ps. sorry if it appears i've been having a go at you today, for some reason in every thread we're on opposing sides of the discussion consistently recently

No, it's good. I like to debate.

I'm a lot more aggressive than you, as well. Don't take it to heart. It's all <3.

Walk into the MoMA in NYC. An entire building of wha I think is just ugly and stupid modern art (Save some peices). Yeah yeah yeah "They make it look that way for a reason." But I just don't like the idea of people masturbating over an off-white canvas pretending like they somehow connect with it in a deep and philosophical way. I totally accept that its all art, but just really, really bad looking art.

Okay again you're failing to understand the point of it.

http://i35.tinypic.com/359elh3.jpg

... did you just bad mouth Barnett Newman?

Don't look for figures. Take the image as a whole. Understand what it's trying to do.

From what I recall, it's about the square in the centre in relation to the zips along the edge. This painting is one of the best examples of exploring things like line and composition in a non-figurative fashion.

But now people just keep doing the same thing and it's pointless.

Ah, so you get it then.

So why then does everyone want artists to paint still life, landscapes and portraits?


**** modern art and **** the false pretentiousness that allows it to flourish.

No, **** the reactionaries who don't want art to change.

[Der Übermensch]

i could understand someone coverting from catholicism but not to catholicism

If you want to marry a Catholic girl.

[guitrguy]

That's just crazy!

[Smokey D]

If you can make a deep spiritual connection to one arbitrary and slightly crazy belief system, why would it be much more difficult to make the same sort of connection with another arbitrary and slightly crazy belief system, especially one with as good a PR machine as the Catholic Church?

[Mr. Ron]

... did you just bad mouth Barnett Newman?

Don't look for figures. Take the image as a whole. Understand what it's trying to do.

From what I recall, it's about the square in the centre in relation to the zips along the edge. This painting is one of the best examples of exploring things like line and composition in a non-figurative fashion.


Well, from looking at the rest of his work, yes, I am. He paints stripes.

See, the problem I have with stuff like that is that it takes no talent to do any of it. It just doesn't. Yet it gets critically acclaimed for being some of the greatest modern art, and people wank over something anyone could have done in 30 minutes in their basement. All in all, common crap anyone can do is touted as one the mantelpieces of modern art. You know after a while he just starts making up **** to make money.

Plus I just know I couldn't stand an artist that does that kind of stuff irl. If anyone seriously stands in front of a canvas, paints a few stripes of colors and thinks they accomplished something monumental and deep they can go pound salt.

[Smokey D]

Well, from looking at the rest of his work, yes, I am. He paints stripes.

Some of his work is better than others.

Vir Heriocus Sublimis though is awesome.

See, the problem I have with stuff like that is that it takes no talent to do any of it. It just doesn't. Yet it gets critically acclaimed for being some of the greatest modern art, and people wank over something anyone could have done in 30 minutes in their basement. All in all, common crap anyone can do is touted as one the mantelpieces of modern art. You know after a while he just starts making up **** to make money.

I disagree that it doesn't take talent. It takes a sound understanding of the formal elements of painting. It also requires the artist to actually come up with the idea. Given the infinite variety of images that can be created, to create one as powerful as Vir Heroicus from a monochrome and 5 lines of colour is a pretty big achievement.

Also, Vir Heroicus is deceptively complex. It took him months to create. It's also ****ing massive.



Plus I just know I couldn't stand an artist that does that kind of stuff irl. If anyone seriously stands in front of a canvas, paints a few stripes of colors and thinks they accomplished something monumental and deep they can go pound salt.

I think most artists would be tossers, to be honest. But that doesn't say anything about their work.

Tell me, what do you think is good art? Not examples, but what do you think are the necessary components?

[1338 h4x0r]

Walk into the MoMA in NYC. An entire building of wha I think is just ugly and stupid modern art (Save some peices). Yeah yeah yeah "They make it look that way for a reason." But I just don't like the idea of people masturbating over an off-white canvas pretending like they somehow connect with it in a deep and philosophical way. I totally accept that its all art, but just really, really bad looking art.

I took some pictures when I was there, this is the stuff that pisses me off:

http://i37.tinypic.com/vsgk0w.jpg

^^^ I bet that artist is laughing all the the to the bank

http://i35.tinypic.com/euqyxh.jpg

^^^ A pink light in a random corner. Fascinating.

http://i35.tinypic.com/359elh3.jpg

^^^ These two were sitting in front of this piece for about 20 minutes saying how they liked the colors....





I liked some things that may seem modern so maybe I'm just a hypocrite:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2w69jr4.jpg
^^^ I don't think Diane Arbus is modern.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2yv8oy1.jpg
^^^Old projector filming a piece of metal while snow falls on it. it lasts for about 7 hours.


http://i35.tinypic.com/2gwv0d2.jpg
^^^Idk why I liked this, but I did. It looks much better in real life.

One of the area colleges has a theater where there's a room where they exhibit art, almost all of it of the modern variety

Sometimes it is really really cool ... when they play with color and shape a lot and you can see a lot of care was put into the work. These kinds of art come out as textured masses of forms, but they are aesthetically appealing

Occasionally it's bunk and I don't bother to look

btw, the pink light thing was OK, I just wouldn't spend 20 minutes looking at it

[Mr. Ron]

Some of his work is better than others.

Vir Heriocus Sublimis though is awesome.



I disagree that it doesn't take talent. It takes a sound understanding of the formal elements of painting. It also requires the artist to actually come up with the idea. Given the infinite variety of images that can be created, to create one as powerful as Vir Heroicus from a monochrome and 5 lines of colour is a pretty big achievement.

Also, Vir Heroicus is deceptively complex. It took him months to create. It's also ****ing massive.



I think most artists would be tossers, to be honest. But that doesn't say anything about their work.

Tell me, what do you think is good art? Not examples, but what do you think are the necessary components?


I'm not going to lie, I know next to nothing about what makes "good" art, or art in general. So for me to list things that make up good art is going to be a waste of time. I just think what is good when I like it I guess.

I like very realistic looking stuff, I guess?


One of the area colleges has a theater where there's a room where they exhibit art, almost all of it of the modern variety

Sometimes it is really really cool ... when they play with color and shape a lot and you can see a lot of care was put into the work. These kinds of art come out as textured masses of forms, but they are aesthetically appealing

Occasionally it's bunk and I don't bother to look

btw, the pink light thing was OK, I just wouldn't spend 20 minutes looking at it

At the MoMA there was a video of a naked woman hoola-hooping with a large ring of barbed wire. She had blood running down her. I thought that was sort of cool since it elicited so many reactions and emotions all at once.

[Smokey D]

I guess what I'm saying is that people are paying too much attention to what they perceive as the talent required to make good art. Just accept the work as an image on its own terms, and you'll have a much better chance at appreciating it.

But admittedly some art, both old and modern (and post modern) is just plain bad.

[Mr. Ron]

I guess what I'm saying is that people are paying too much attention to what they perceive as the talent required to make good art. Just accept the work as an image on its own terms, and you'll have a much better chance at appreciating it.

But admittedly some art, both old and modern (and post modern) is just plain bad.

To you what are the components that make up good art?

[dei]

OK, maybe I should have said libertarian and not conservative.

[Smokey D]

To you what are the components that make up good art?

It depends, really.

Obviously technical execution is important, but I don't think it's always necessary.

I like art that attempts to explore itself or the means used to create it, and there is a vast number of ways of doing this. As I keep on saying, the formal elements of art can be extremely interesting if approached correctly or reinterpreted. Likewise, the work's relationship with the viewer or the artist himself is an area of interest (this is where you get things like installation art those monochrome paintings which are the same colour as the wall behind them. The question is, where does art begin and life end). I can appreciate the image, either in its technical minutia (in a still life or the works of the Renaissance masters, or Dali) or as a gestalt whole (like Newman, and Pollock and Rothko).

But most of all, I hate derivative reproduction of old styles that incorporates nothing new.

[Iskandar]

OK, maybe I should have said libertarian and not conservative.Oh gawd, not another white male middle-class American libertarian on the Internet.

Wait, you're black. Then it's okay.

[Smokey D]

He's not black.

[guitrguy]

Dei being black is the biggest sham since the JFK assassination.

[Iskandar]

It was a subtle jest.

[guitrguy]

has anyone ever seen a pic of dei?

[Iskandar]

I'm actually female. You guys all assumed I was male, didn't you? Sexist pigs.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm actually female. You guys all assumed I was male, didn't you? Sexist pigs.

:naughty::naughty::naughty:

[Iskandar]

Yes, I am hot. Not that it matters to you. Pig.

[dei]

Dei being black is the biggest sham since the JFK assassination.

I am going to stab your children.

[Smokey D]

I'm actually female. Is that why you like pink?

[guitrguy]

I am going to stab your children.

bring it bitch

Is that why you like pink?
I think that's why she is infatuated with jigglypuff

[Iskandar]

I think that's why she is infatuated with jigglypuff
Is that why you like pink?
Both totally correct observations!

[guitrguy]

wanna be my internet GF, Alexis?

[Mr. Ron]

Back off brian

Alex knows where his honey is spread

[guitrguy]

Are you stepping to me?

[Mr. Ron]

Do you bite your thumb sir?

[Der Übermensch]

You can always spring for the menage é tois...

[Mr. Ron]

>_>

<_<

[Iskandar]

Do you bite your thumb sir?No, sir, but I do bite my thumb.

[Mr. Ron]

No, sir, but I do bite my thumb.

Do you quarrel, sir ?

[Iskandar]

Quarrel, sir? No, sir.

[Smokey D]

Pipe down, woman. The men are talking.

[Mr. Ron]

Quarrel, sir? No, sir.


THEN JUST GITTTT OWWTTT



^^^ from Shakespear's lost drafts

[Iskandar]

I think there was a scribal error. Aright, 'twould be "prithee, remoue thine self from mine forvm!"

[Radiobass81]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRH0uYgK2QQ

I can't stop listening.

[1338 h4x0r]

THEN JUST GITTTT OWWTTT



^^^ from Shakespear's lost drafts

Get. Out.

[Mr. Ron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JblK9cRzpZg&feature=related





Get. Out.

Hey, if I don't respond to my AIM's sometimes it means that my AIM won't log out properly, and I may not be there when you message me. Just letting you know.

[1338 h4x0r]

lolk

[Mr. Ron]

What was that messaging service you suggested to me? I think it started with a "P".

[1338 h4x0r]

Pidgin

and it's a program, not a messenger service. You can use it with AIM, MSN, IRC, Google Talk and many others!! In fact I have two AIM accounts loaded into my Pidgin settings

[Knifeboy]

Why pidgin over Miranda, for example?

[1338 h4x0r]

I used to use Miranda

I didn't like its interface as much plus I don't recall it having some of the features I wanted

[Knifeboy]

any examples of what pidgin offers that miranda doesn't? (or just features you like about pidgin)

[1338 h4x0r]

Pidgin runs on Linux too (Min dator är helt svensk!)

For starters

So I get the same interface everywhere

[Knifeboy]

yeah ok.. I just use meboo.com because i'm lazy

[1338 h4x0r]

meebo is good

MSN stopped working here for some reason so I have to use meebo to access it

[Knifeboy]

i miss the days where everyone used icq and nothing else.. it was so much easier

[guitrguy]

Pipe down, woman. The men are talking.haha

[dei]

I never used ICQ.

[Radiobass81]

# Posts Per Day: 11.11

Yup.

[McP3000]

Yup.
awesome

[Dr Hooch]

old news but "the more realistic the art the better it is" became pretty uninteresting after the invention of the camera

[1338 h4x0r]

lemme take a pic of Dwarrowdelf here

'k done

[Smokey D]

You're still confusing iconography with style.

[1338 h4x0r]

#doesNotUnderstand

also

#doesNotCare

[Already_Taken]

with that post you proved that first off, you're an idiot, and secondly you proved it furthermore by saying you don't care about something that you replied to! you are obnoxious in all respects!

[1338 h4x0r]

With your user title you prove you're a homophobe by accusing everyone who reads your posts of being 'gay'

As if that's a bad thing

Bigot

ITT: ad hominem slinging

[Knifeboy]

with that post you proved that first off, you're an idiot, and secondly you proved it furthermore by saying you don't care about something that you replied to! you are obnoxious in all respects!

you shouldn't really take stuff in the community thread so seriously

[1338 h4x0r]

Don't pay attention to him, he's just straining at gnats to try to make me feel bad

Never mind that my processor is incapable of even simulating guilt.

[dei]

Surrender or you'll die.