PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[Hababi]

How does religion play a role? The outcome does not determine what the causes are.

Having a greater truth inspires greater hope and prosperity.


"The correct religion." You know four billion people don't think that, right?


Yeah but they're wrong.


Islam is far more community-oriented than Christianity. From communal prayers to charity to festivals, it's a communitarian religion. Christianity is divided in countless sects which differ drastically in belief and practice.

I would hardly say they drastically differ. And Christians, for the most part, stopped killing each other over religious differences a few centuries ago; Islam hasn't quite reached that point yet. Many Christian denominations are communal, too (See: strongly Catholic communities)/

[Iskandar]

Having a greater truth inspires greater hope and prosperity.



Yeah but they're wrong.Muslims belief their religion is true just as much as you do. Stop being absurd by claiming your religion is the correct one without any backing argumentation.
I would hardly say they drastically differ. And Christians, for the most part, stopped killing each other over religious differences a few centuries ago; Islam hasn't quite reached that point yet. Many Christian denominations are communal, too (See: strongly Catholic communities)/A Unitarian is quite different from a Catholic, and then again from a southern Baptist. And Christianity just doesn't have community insitutions on the same level as Islam, like zakah and daily common prayers.

Do Muslims kill each other simply because they are Muslims?

[Waltz Profit]

I didn't know you could tell that sort of a bit about a person based on his (not often very serious) posts.

the vast majority of people who are really passionate about something like making music will come to a board like this to discuss music and making it

i guess you must be one of those exceptional exceptions

Like I said before, I rarely discuss music on here, as it often turns into a silly pissing contest like we had the other day. Which was pretty silly, but I was pretty bored.

thats funny because lots of other people can discuss music just fine on these boards so i don't really know what you're talking about

I play guitar, piano, and I used to play the tuba in band, but I don't think I could do that anymore so that doesn't count. Trying to pick up the drums, but just haven't had much of an opportunity to yet. I also record stuff, obviously.

lol like what

[Reaganista]

Well, in addition to the concentration (which can be rather vague), you have to take an American history survey course, European history survey course, a pre-1500 course, and a non western survey course. And an elective. I could do something more broad, like "Western European history", but I probably won't.
if i were you i would do something more broad like 'history'

[siva_chair]

the vast majority of people who are really passionate about something like making music will come to a board like this to discuss music and making it

Yeah, but I discuss it plenty without feeling the need to do so over the intraweb. I care little what a bunch of people I don't really know think of my musical tastes, tbh.

i guess you must be one of those exceptional exceptions

Perhaps. I'd gladly discuss music with people if a topic came up that I really cared to discuss. I just tend to spend most my time in this subforum, so music doesn't come up nearly as much as it does in other forums.

thats funny because lots of other people can discuss music just fine on these boards so i don't really know what you're talking about

Probably, but I do tend to see a lot of "no ur rong that band sucks" kind of crap on here.


lol like what

As in what have I recorded? Well, I've recorded jazz, rock, blues, country, bluegrass, and other such things. Doesn't mean I have personally played on all of them, though.

[Waltz Profit]

oh ok i get it

[siva_chair]

oh ok i get it

I forgot funk.

Now that was a fun project. Almost as fun as recording the Steely Dan tune.

[Waltz Profit]

wow so diverse!

[Iskandar]

wow so diverse!Yeah, he needs more Bengali sarood improvisations. Then he'll be diverse.

[Waltz Profit]

y:rolleyes:u read my mind kkk:rolleyes:mrade dr:rolleyes:pper

actually i'm pretty impressed not many people know that bengalis are world famous for their hindustani string instrumentalists :I

[Iskandar]

y:rolleyes:u read my mind kkk:rolleyes:mrade dr:rolleyes:pperyes i did
actually i'm pretty impressed not many people know that bengalis are world famous for their hindustani string instrumentalists :Itwo things:

1) how are they world famous if not that many people know about them
2) how can a string instrumental be hindustani i'm just a little confused much obliged if you would clear this up for me kthnx

[Waltz Profit]

speaking of bengal and sarod i am listening to this album called tani tani by state of bengal's sam zaman and the famous baul poet/musician paban das baul

it is a combination of traditional baul music (basically the bengali response to pakistan's qawwali holy ecstasy music) and drumnbass \m/

[Iskandar]

speaking of bengal and sarod i am listening to this album called tani tani by state of bengal's sam zaman and the famous baul poet/musician paban das baul

it is a combination of traditional baul music (basically the bengali response to pakistan's qawwali holy ecstasy music) and drumnbass \m/why are you so brown

hmm i've heard of qawwali how about that

[Waltz Profit]

1) how are they world famous if not that many people know about them

the instrumentalists are world famous but the world usually don't know that they are bengali

2) how can a string instrumental be hindustani i'm just a little confused much obliged if you would clear this up for me kthnx

lol i said hindustani string instrumentalist

like

ravi shankar
ali akbar khan
vilayat khan
nikhil bannerjee
shiv kumar sharma
amjad ali khan
sultan khan
etc

a carnatic string instrumentalist would be like

u srinivas
l.n. shankar
l subramanium
etc

[Iskandar]

the instrumentalists are world famous but the world usually don't know that they are bengalioh i see
lol i said hindustani string instrumentalist

like

ravi shankar
ali akbar khan
vilayat khan
nikhil bannerjee
shiv kumar sharma
amjad ali khan
sultan khan
etc

a carnatic string instrumentalist would be like

u srinivas
l.n. shankar
l subramanium
etc
i misread it as "instrumentals"

i have heard of some of those musicians

[Waltz Profit]

ur power levels has risen considerably in my eyes

[Iskandar]

ur power levels has risen considerably in my eyesexcellent just what i wanted

[Waltz Profit]

in time u may train t obecome a super sayijan

[Iskandar]

in time u may train t obecome a super sayijanim afraid im not sure what that is

[Waltz Profit]

me either :I

[PerpetualBurn]

Wasn't Bengali a character in the Jungle Book?

[Reaganista]

Yeah, but I discuss it plenty without feeling the need to do so over the intraweb. I care little what a bunch of people I don't really know think of my musical tastes, tbh.

well that's good because your musical tastes completely ****ing suck and i'd feel bad telling you that if you did care but since you dont i can tell you that youre the worst music fan ever and feel completely guilt-free

[totah]

Lol, I saw Anti-Flag once. Someone chucked a beer and hit one of them on the head, and another projectile can knocked out one of the stage lights. BAD idea for Anti-Flag to go on with their shitty little gimmicks right after the Dwarves played naked except for gimp masks.

[griftadan]

lol this is ****ing hilarious

[Reaganista]

Lol, I saw Anti-Flag once. Someone chucked a beer and hit one of them on the head, and another projectile can knocked out one of the stage lights. BAD idea for Anti-Flag to go on with their shitty little gimmicks right after the Dwarves played naked except for gimp masks.

hey it really is coheneran

[Waltz Profit]

well that's good because your musical tastes completely ****ing suck and i'd feel bad telling you that if you did care but since you dont i can tell you that youre the worst music fan ever and feel completely guilt-free

lol

[totah]

hey it really is coheneran

No, clearly I am a masked Anne R. Kist with no regards to good Christian morality or sensible child behaviour.

[Waltz Profit]

wait ur a girl?

titsorban

[totah]

I'll show mine if you show yours bubele.

[Iscariot]

this thread is making me sweat

[Mr. Ron]

this thread is making me sweat

Here, let my tongue cool you off.

[Iscariot]

but it's so warm and sticky

here clean it off in my asshole

[Mr. Ron]

This has gone too far

[griftadan]

whats the deal with *** to mouth anyways

[Iscariot]

*** to mouth is overrated

[pedro durruti]

What's the deal with that stupid egg in your avatar

[Waltz Profit]

egg to mouth ftl

[sweboy]

Why is "egg" censored anyway?

[Mr. Ron]

eggpr0n

[Dr Hooch]

Ah but look at Africa--the countries that are improving are, for the most part, primarily Christian, and the struggling ones are mostly Muslim.

Biblebashers got the dollar$


It's the correct religion, and inspires greater comradere (sic) amongst people. Islam tends to breed division. Also I could get into protestant work ethic, etc. There are lots of reasons why Christianity > other religions, and nations that are Christian > non Christian nations.

I seriously disagree

see; northern ireland

Yeah but France and Spain are going down the crapper anyway. Poland will pwn them in 10 years.

If this were true it would be because the poles work hard unlike those lazy frenchmen

[Reaganista]

what egg is censored

[italic zero]

the *** egg?

[Reaganista]

man **** that egg ****

[griftadan]

What's the deal with that stupid egg in your avatar

it's a wilco album cover

[Reaganista]

that no xcuse

[griftadan]

eggscuse?

[lfantwister]

wilco's playing here in like a week and a half

my mom is going

[Waltz Profit]

eggxactly!

[griftadan]

wilco's playing here in like a week and a half

my mom is going

****ing lucky

they're playing at austin city limits this year, i already got my tickets. can't wait to here the new album songs live.

[lfantwister]

have an eggselent time

[griftadan]

thats it i'm changing my avatar

[lfantwister]

are we egging you on too much

[griftadan]

haha now no one will ever know what the hell happened

[Waltz Profit]

this turn of events is simply deleggtable!

[lfantwister]

is that another wilco album?

[griftadan]

yeah the new one, sky blue sky

[italic zero]

one day, you'll regret this eggregious error

[Waltz Profit]

well that was unexpeggted!

[PerpetualBurn]

Reggina Spektor.

[lfantwister]

all these jokes are really getting uneggceptable

[Waltz Profit]

personally i believe this humor is eggceptional!

[PerpetualBurn]

Regina Speggtor.

[Reaganista]

chicken ****er

[pedro durruti]

I Like your style Reaganista
it's a wilco album cover
I like that but glad you changed. Good eggonomics
Regina Speggtor.
PB... you've got an obsession.. and it may be unhealthy if she weren't such a good singer.

Before tonight I forgot how great being drunk was, and I wasn't even that drunk, just happy, and very light headed drunk. (Maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much, that I did not pass that point). The last many times I've always smoked and drank and it always makes it different.

[griftadan]

wait what

[PerpetualBurn]

PB... you've got an obsession.. and it may be unhealthy if she weren't such a good singer.

You have no idea what my flatmates went through when I hit the deepest part of my problem.

I also sing Don't Stop Believing whenever I'm drunk.

[totah]

You should try Against Me! dude.

[PerpetualBurn]

Actually I've recently acquired an Against Me! album (thank you, Ali). Not really anything like Regina though. And I don't want to shag Against Me!

[totah]

Lol. Which album?

And I can't believe that bitch Ali is sharing music with other MXers! I feel so betrayed!

[PerpetualBurn]

As The Eternal Cowboy or something like that.

It was in exchange for Love, Devotion, Surrender.

[totah]

You should hear Reinventing Axl Rose, it's way better. Also, Searching For A Former Clarity is very moving.

[Smokey D]

Speaking of Axl Rose, I'm going to a Guns n' Roses gig next weekend. To be quite honest, my expectations aren't particularly high, but there is the potential for good times.

[Hababi]

Muslims belief their religion is true just as much as you do. Stop being absurd by claiming your religion is the correct one without any backing argumentation.

Their religion was spread on the basis of Mohammad being a prophet. Well, ok, they believed his prophecies and trusted his wisdom. Christianity was spread on the experience of the Apostles having seen the risen Jesus, Savior of the Earth.


A Unitarian is quite different from a Catholic, and then again from a southern Baptist.


The differences between Catholic and Baptist are no greater than between Sunni and Shi'ite. And unlike Sunni and Shi'ite, they're not killing each other.


And Christianity just doesn't have community insitutions on the same level as Islam, like zakah and daily common prayers.


They did back in the Medieval Era, when Christian nations were run more like Muslim nations today ;)

Do Muslims kill each other simply because they are Muslims?

There are a number of reasons. Now, I'm not as familiar as I should be with the Koran, but from what I've read, it's roughly half a book of wisdom, and half a book of war. This is considerably different than the Bible.

[Smokey D]

The differences between Catholic and Baptist are no greater than between Sunni and Shi'ite. And unlike Sunni and Shi'ite, they're not killing each other.

It still happens in some parts of the world, and history is too full of examples of intra-Christian violence to say that it generates peace. The facts that a great many Western societies both used to be or still are predominantly Christian and are peaceful is an uncorrelated one; modern internal cohesion in the West is a product of liberalism, freedom of conscience and a high standard of living, not religiosity.

[Hababi]

It still happens in some parts of the world


Much, much less than with Islam. In fact, outside of low-level hostility residue in Ireland/northern Ireland, I can't think of a region where there remains conflict between Protestant and Catholic.


, and history is too full of examples of intra-Christian violence to say that it generates peace.


Yes, in the past. But why do you think that today, Islam is, as practiced, much more violent and hostile than Christianity?


The facts that a great many Western societies both used to be or still are predominantly Christian and are peaceful is an uncorrelated one; modern internal cohesion in the West is a product of liberalism, freedom of conscience and a high standard of living, not religiosity.

At a time when Germany had as high a standard of living as existed in the world, and was getting democratic, they moved toward militaristic fascism. No coincidence that this spread with Pagan ideology ;)

'Liberalism' and 'freedom of conscience', further more, brought forth the French Revolution.

[Smokey D]

Much, much less than with Islam. In fact, outside of low-level hostility residue in Ireland/northern Ireland, I can't think of a region where there remains conflict between Protestant and Catholic.

Various places in Africa.

But the point is that Islam or Christianity are not the factors of conflict or peace, in themselves.

Yes, in the past. But why do you think that today, Islam is, as practiced, much more violent and hostile than Christianity?

Because the west is technologically superior to most places where Islam is practised, and has been co-opted by a strong liberal tradition with an emphasis on division of public and private spheres.

At a time when Germany had as high a standard of living as existed in the world, and was getting democratic, they moved toward militaristic fascism. No coincidence that this spread with Pagan ideology

Er, Catholicism was associated with Italian, Spanish and South American fascism. What's your point?


'Liberalism' and 'freedom of conscience', further more, brought forth the French Revolution.

And modern democracy.

Dude, are you actually saying the state should be despotic and curb individual beliefs?

[Hababi]

Various places in Africa.

Where, specifically? I wouldn't count the LRA as a Christian group, so Uganda doesn't count. The conflicts in Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania etc. are Muslim vs. Christian.


Because the west is technologically superior to most places where Islam is practised, and has been co-opted by a strong liberal tradition with an emphasis on division of public and private spheres.


Technological superiority doesn't equate peace. Many places that are technologically inferior to, say, Iran, are nonetheless more peaceful and free.


Er, Catholicism was associated with Italian, Spanish and South American fascism. What's your point?


Wrongfully associated, though. The only possible association that has some merit is the Spanish one, but Franco wasn't that bad of a guy.


And modern democracy.

What brought about democracy in Eastern Europe? Not liberalism, no, the church.

Dude, are you actually saying the state should be despotic and curb individual beliefs?

Haha no I'm not saying that, I'm just pointing out the liberalism has brought forth a great deal of ills. Of course, the way "freedom" is understood in countries considered to be the most liberal, is wrongheaded.

[Smokey D]

Technological superiority doesn't equate peace. Many places that are technologically inferior to, say, Iran, are nonetheless more peaceful and free.

A universally high standard of living certainly helps, though.

I'm not trying to reduce this issue to a single factor, though.

Wrongfully associated, though. The only possible association that has some merit is the Spanish one, but Franco wasn't that bad of a guy.

Bullshit. You're such a hypocrite.


What brought about democracy in Eastern Europe? Not liberalism, no, the church.

No, actually liberalism. And not just because liberalism created democracy in the first place, but because it was the source of most resentment against the Eastern regime in every country except Poland.


Haha no I'm not saying that, I'm just pointing out the liberalism has brought forth a great deal of ills. Of course, the way "freedom" is understood in countries considered to be the most liberal, is wrongheaded.

The way liberalism is understood in most places is wrong, you mean.

The Church has killed a lot more people than liberalism has, though, so don't play that game.

[lunchforthesky]

Peace has spread throughout the west because of religious apathy, liberalism and high living standards. As usual Zero is an idiot and Smokey is right.

[Hababi]

Bullshit. You're such a hypocrite.


Most of the casualties attributed to Franco's rule were in the context of fighting a violent rebel group. I'm not saying Franco was a good guy, by any stretch of the imagination, but lumping him with Mussolini isn't right.


No, actually liberalism. And not just because liberalism created democracy in the first place, but because it was the source of most resentment against the Eastern regime in every country except Poland.


At the very least, in Poland, the church led the way.


The way liberalism is understood in most places is wrong, you mean.


Basically :p


The Church has killed a lot more people than liberalism has, though, so don't play that game.

Marxism led to Stalinism, Maoism, etc. which killed well over 50 million people this century. And that's on liberalism.

[Smokey D]

Most of the casualties attributed to Franco's rule were in the context of fighting a violent rebel group. I'm not saying Franco was a good guy, by any stretch of the imagination, but lumping him with Mussolini isn't right.

You're a fascist apologist, which is detestable.

Spain was at least as bad as modern Iran, so stop being inconsistent.

At the very least, in Poland, the church led the way.


So?


Marxism led to Stalinism, Maoism, etc. which killed well over 50 million people this century. And that's on liberalism.

What? Marxism is pretty much diametrically opposed to liberalism, you nonce.

Christianity has killed more than 50 million people, but I don't say that the teaching of Jesus Christ are necessarily the same teachings of the various Churches which have committed such crimes.

[lunchforthesky]

Marxism led to Stalinism, Maoism, etc. which killed well over 50 million people this century. And that's on liberalism.

So because the Greek Pantheon led to Christianity. Belief in Zeus is to blame for the Crusades? Right?

[Waltz Profit]

lunchforthesky you don't understand

christianity has never done anything wrong

[Smokey D]

So because the Greek Pantheon led to Christianity. Belief in Zeus is to blame for the Crusades? Right?

Dude, what? The Greek pantheon didn't lead to Christianity.

Unless you mean the Dionysis thing, but that's not that important. The Old Testament is much more influential.

[lunchforthesky]

Dude, what? The Greek pantheon didn't lead to Christianity.

Unless you mean the Dionysis thing, but that's not that important. The Old Testament is much more influential.

I say i led to it, to the same extent that liberalism led to socialism, led to to stalinism.

[Smokey D]

The connections between Greek paganism and Christianity are pretty tenuous, though.

[lunchforthesky]

The connections between Greek paganism and Christianity are pretty tenuous, though.

And the connection between Locke/Rousseau and Stalin/Mao aren't?

[Smokey D]

They're a little stronger than between polytheism and the Crusades, though. I see what you're getting at though.

[Hababi]

You're a fascist apologist, which is detestable.


I'm not saying that Franco was a good guy or that he didn't do what it is accepted that he did do. But what I'm pointing out is that he is not in the same company of Mussolini.


Spain was at least as bad as modern Iran, so stop being inconsistent.


I wouldn't go that far.


So?


So give credit where credit is due :cool:


What? Marxism is pretty much diametrically opposed to liberalism, you nonce.

So why did some liberals and progressives adopt his mindset?


Christianity has killed more than 50 million people, but I don't say that the teaching of Jesus Christ are necessarily the same teachings of the various Churches which have committed such crimes.

People perverting Christ's teachings did that, whereas Communism espouses violent disposal of the "ruling class."

[Smokey D]

I'm not saying that Franco was a good guy or that he didn't do what it is accepted that he did do. But what I'm pointing out is that he is not in the same company of Mussolini.


You're implying that what he did was acceptable.

I wouldn't go that far.

You're saying Franco's Spain was better than IRan?

So give credit where credit is due

What do you think I'm doing when I credit liberalism?

So why did some liberals and progressives adopt his mindset?


Progressive is not the same as liberalism. You cannot be a liberal marxist; the two things are mutually exclusive.

People perverting Christ's teachings did that, whereas Communism espouses violent disposal of the "ruling class."

It's more complex than that.

[Hababi]

You're implying that what he did was acceptable.

I wouldn't usethe term 'acceptable.'



You're saying Franco's Spain was better than IRan?


Definitely.



Progressive is not the same as liberalism. You cannot be a liberal marxist; the two things are mutually exclusive.


Marxism is still an obvious offshoot of liberalism and the Enlightenment.


It's more complex than that.

It always is.

[lfantwister]

And I can't believe that bitch Ali is sharing music with other MXers! I feel so betrayed!

awww :(

[PerpetualBurn]

Don't worry about him. He's a gay. They get like this.

[lfantwister]

he's just about as gay as i am...

actually no i dont do trannies

[PerpetualBurn]

Yeah, but lesbian action is entertaining.

[lfantwister]

like your mom last night

[Waltz Profit]

Definitely.

looooooooooolllllllllll

[Reaganista]

lumping mussolini in with franco is more unfair to mussolini I mean what did he ever do really

[totah]

he's just about as gay as i am...

actually no i dont do trannies

You can't say that until you've been propositioned by a trannie and said no.

Lesbian action lacks the dominative/power-play connotations of penetration. Most actresses in mainstream lesbian porn don't seem to be able to pass it off with a strap-on.

Besides, most mainstream porn isn't sexy.

[PerpetualBurn]

like your mom last night

Oh, so you're the fishy one she was talking about.

[AmericanWeiner]

serenity how does this make you feel:

http://i2.tinypic.com/2u9u4j7.jpg

[Hababi]

The precursor to the link makes me wonder if I ought to click it :p

[AmericanWeiner]

its not pr0n

[Hababi]

:lol:

I can find no words :p

[gregulus]

:lol:

I can find no words :p

what if they were palestinian?

[siva_chair]

well that's good because your musical tastes completely ****ing suck and i'd feel bad telling you that if you did care but since you dont i can tell you that youre the worst music fan ever and feel completely guilt-free

Dude you listen to AFI....

I think the best music you've ever listed has been Kelly Clarkson....

And you wouldn't feel bad even if I actually cared.

[Waltz Profit]

lol do you have a last.fm or something

because it sure does seem like your tastes are, if not terrible, rather bland

[PerpetualBurn]

How many MXers are on Last.fm?

I'm on as www.last.fm/user/foxn though I'm not sure if it gives a great view of my music. Buckethead is disproportionately high.

[pedro durruti]

last.fm is good and I've got one but there's nothing like transferring files with one another on soulseek

[Yield]

I like last.fm, but every so often it ****s up and it won't update or scrobble or something stupid like that.

http://www.last.fm/user/motionlesslight

^^ That would be me

[AmericanWeiner]

i just watched 300 and then had a massive epiphany about the real implications of what wouldve happened if leonidas hadn't led his men at thermopylae..

**** man, christianity, islam, western culture? that **** wouldve never happened.

[Smokey D]

We don't know how far the Persians would have got. Europe wasn't that easy to invade, even at that point. But the victory at Thermoplyae has been cited as the most important moment in Western history for the same reasons that you pointed out.

[Reaganista]

last.fm broke my wmp so i got rid of it rather than trying to make it work =/

Dude you listen to AFI....

authors of at least 2 undisputed masterpieces

I think the best music you've ever listed has been Kelly Clarkson....

well she's not my absolute favorite, but ill admit that breakaway is better than any album recorded in the 70s

And you wouldn't feel bad even if I actually cared.
thats true

[Iscariot]

http://www.last.fm/user/bruce_willis/

[Dr Hooch]

http://www.last.fm/user/bruce_willis/

Jesuschrist

You like Do Make Say Think?

the world is full of wonderful surprises!

[Hababi]

We don't know how far the Persians would have got. Europe wasn't that easy to invade, even at that point. But the victory at Thermoplyae has been cited as the most important moment in Western history for the same reasons that you pointed out.

Ancient history, yuck. I don't get the appeal of studying the ancient Greeks, let alone the Spartans (glorified barbarians)...Of course, I also don't get the whole appeal of the 'knights in armor' thing; to me it's a bit silly.

[totah]

Unlike Zionism, which is nothing like a modern version of the Crusades, amirite?

[PerpetualBurn]

http://www.last.fm/user/bruce_willis/

Eluvium and Explosions In The Sky...maybe I misjudged you.

[Hababi]

Unlike Zionism, which is nothing like a modern version of the Crusades, amirite?

More like any event of noble folks (in this case, Israelis) trying to hold off a barbarian horde (the folks who want to destroy Israel).

[Smokey D]

Ancient history, yuck. I don't get the appeal of studying the ancient Greeks, let alone the Spartans (glorified barbarians)...Of course, I also don't get the whole appeal of the 'knights in armor' thing; to me it's a bit silly.

I think it all has relevance, but I do agree with modern history being more interesting.

[totah]

More like any event of noble folks (in this case, Israelis) trying to hold off a barbarian horde (the folks who want to destroy Israel).

Haha, that's not at all like the Christian Crusaders' justification for their atrocities.

As for Lastfm, almost everyone in the punk forum is on there, I know that much. I never really got into it.

[Dr Hooch]

More like any event of noble folks (in this case, Israelis) trying to hold off a barbarian horde (the folks who want to destroy Israel).

aww steve

you're so cute when you're talking about israel

I suppose the crusades were really a last ditch attempt by the christians to save the muslims from themselves, that went horribly wrong as the evil muslims turned violent?

[Smokey D]

I don't think you can talk about that kind of **** here.

[totah]

The wireless jacking bit or the rapidshare bit?

[Smokey D]

Rapidshare.

[Iscariot]

i thought it was rapidshare = ok

ysi = not ok

:confused:

[Iscariot]

Jesuschrist

You like Do Make Say Think?

the world is full of wonderful surprises!

Eluvium and Explosions In The Sky...maybe I misjudged you.

yeah i really dig post-rock

i've been trying to get a new band together so i can bring my post-rock/ambient ideas to fruition but no one around here but me really plays this kind of stuff

[totah]

i thought it was rapidshare = ok

ysi = not ok

:confused:

It's the whole sharing files thing. YSI and rapidshare are the same service, but rapidshare is better.

I don't see why we can't talk about it though, the punk forum has its own soulseek thread.

[Iskandar]

Marxism is still an obvious offshoot of liberalism and the Enlightenment.Developed in reaction to it, more like.

[Hababi]

Developed in reaction to it, more like.

Marxism was a reaction to industrialization, not enlightenment.

[Iskandar]

Marxism was a reaction to industrialization, not enlightenment.Industrialization was a result of capitalism, which was a product of liberalism, which was a product of the Enlightenment.

:)

[Iscariot]

there's a fly on the wart on the frog on the bump on the log in the hole in the bottom of the sea

[Iskandar]

there's a fly on the wart on the frog on the bump on the log in the hole in the bottom of the seaSame idea, really.

[ringworm]

lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEZjwgwFbs

[lfantwister]

http://www.last.fm/user/lfantwister/

[gregulus]

Ancient history, yuck. I don't get the appeal of studying the ancient Greeks, let alone the Spartans (glorified barbarians)...Of course, I also don't get the whole appeal of the 'knights in armor' thing; to me it's a bit silly.

ancient history is really cool. ancient warfare especially.

http://www.last.fm/user/gregulus/
it's been a while since it's been updated.

[pedro durruti]

It's all interesting, although modernity makes things a little less aesthetically pleasing I think. Although I'm not interested in ancient history as much because it's irrelevant politically.

[italic zero]

http://www.last.fm/user/newitalic/

[Waltz Profit]

http://www.last.fm/user/eggothewaffle/

my last.fm scrobbler updates very randomly :-\

[Reaganista]

It's all interesting, although modernity makes things a little less aesthetically pleasing I think. Although I'm not interested in ancient history as much because it's irrelevant politically.

dood wat about thucydides

[Der Übermensch]

I love Ancient History... the high classical in Greece, and the early Roman Empire especially...

...and when in Rome :)
http://www.last.fm/user/DerUbermensch/

[Mr. Ron]

Ancient history is far more interesting than current history....at least to me.

[totah]

"Interested in Classical Greek culture" is one way of proclaiming in the personal ads that you want gay sex.

[Smokey D]

I don't like ancient history because it is so inconclusive. And we don't learn anything meaningful from it, really.

But it's interesting to read about, I spose.

[Reaganista]

Ancient history is far more interesting than current history....at least to me.
current history huh wats that is it like future history

[Der Übermensch]

I assume he means post-renaissance...

But as for inconclusive, I'd say ancient is the opposite, we know how it concluded.... we can trace the rise and fall of roman power... the creation and break up of Alexander's empire... It's recent history thats inconclusive... we still don't know even the short term effects of much of it...

[Mr. Ron]

I don't like ancient history because it is so inconclusive. And we don't learn anything meaningful from it, really.

But it's interesting to read about, I spose.

I don't see how you can say that. Plenty is learned from the past.

[Smokey D]

What does ancient history teach us about how to run the modern world?

Like Ubermensch says, ancient history is a done deal. Every effect from events in the ancient world that could happen has already happened.


But as for inconclusive, I'd say ancient is the opposite, we know how it concluded.... we can trace the rise and fall of roman power... the creation and break up of Alexander's empire... It's recent history thats inconclusive... we still don't know even the short term effects of much of it...

I mean speculative because so much of it is not written down, or recorded misleadingly.

[Reaganista]

thucydides man

[Smokey D]

Modern historians don't use his method as inspiration, even if he did come up with historical method in the first place.

[Der Übermensch]

Insert "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" or similar witticism...

[Mr. Ron]

What does ancient history teach us about how to run the modern world?

Like Ubermensch says, ancient history is a done deal. Every effect from events in the ancient world that could happen has already happened.



I mean speculative because so much of it is not written down, or recorded misleadingly.

I'm not talking necessarily about "running" anything. But it certainly is useful as a guide on what not to do.

[Reaganista]

Modern historians don't use his method as inspiration, even if he did come up with historical method in the first place.
i was talking about international relations tbh

[Der Übermensch]

History teaches us that invading Russia is a bad idea... esspecialy when winter hits...

[Smokey D]

Insert "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" or similar witticism...

(Ancient) history is increasingly irrelevant proportional to the length of time between the event and now. We are less and less likely to repeat any of the mistakes of the acient world as everything becomes increasingly modern. And I'd say taking heed of more recent debacles are a lot more important when it comes to not repeating history's mistakes.

I'm not talking necessarily about "running" anything. But it certainly is useful as a guide on what not to do.

See above.

i was talking about international relations tbh

What was his position on that?

History teaches us that invading Russia is a bad idea... esspecialy when winter hits...

Dude, I'm a history major contemplating doing honours. Don't get me wrong, I think history is important, but some stuff is more relevant to here and now than others.

[Mr. Ron]

Then what is the use of ancient history, Smokey?

[Reaganista]

we use it to steal pieces of their culture to make really nifty fantasy stories and characters for the kids

What was his position on that?
dood the history of the first peloponesian war

[Smokey D]

You may have guessed that I'm not an ancient history student, so I haven't read that. What's he say in it?

Then what is the use of ancient history, Smokey?

A point of interest, but not a point of reference.

[Mr. Ron]

Well, I'm not sure if i fully agree but i see where you are coming from.

[Reaganista]

o he basically was the first person to study power politics, realist thoeries of IR ect
'the strong do what they can and the weak accept what they must'
'the war was caused by the growth in power of sparta and the fear it caused in athens' and so forth
basically rejecting the religious/traditionalist arguments that dominated IR theory before and after him

it's the idea that power is the most important thing in IR
the modern people use more nuanced arguments but it's basically the same idea

[pedro durruti]

What does that have to do with history

[Reaganista]

founding the study of IR doesn't have a whole lot do with history

thucydides himself however has to do with ancient history because he is ancient history

[Smokey D]

o he basically was the first person to study power politics, realist thoeries of IR ect
'the strong do what they can and the weak accept what they must'
'the war was caused by the growth in power of sparta and the fear it caused in athens' and so forth
basically rejecting the religious/traditionalist arguments that dominated IR theory before and after him

it's the idea that power is the most important thing in IR
the modern people use more nuanced arguments but it's basically the same idea

But this is only relevant if modern IR scholars deliberately refer back to him. I was under the impression that that sort of power politics analysis didn't really become important in Europe until well after Machiavelli.

[Reaganista]

im confused what do you mean important

[Iskandar]

History teaches us that invading Russia is a bad idea... esspecialy when winter hits..."The US has broken the first two rules of warfare. The first is to not go fighting with ground troops on the mainland of Asia. The second is to not invade Russia. I came up with these rules myself."

:)

[Smokey D]

im confused what do you mean important

Like, a school of analysis.

[Reaganista]

yeah he invented it

[Smokey D]

But was he referred to as the inventor?

[Reaganista]

by who

[Smokey D]

Like do modern IR scholars refer to him when scholarising IR? If they don't, then Thucydides doesn't make ancient history any more influential.

[Iskandar]

Technically, it would be, "by whom."

[pedro durruti]

Ideas are timeless. While his analysis may form a historical perspective of certain events, the concepts extracted from it are another academic concern apart from history. Wait, what? Who is saying what? Ok, I'm looking at your post Reaganista. I think I know what you mean, with the individuals of history and their effect on at least the recent past. But that seems too narrow a view of history. Whatever that saying was a page or two back, the sea may have in the end sprouted the fly, but the relation is so far off it's irrelevant to make the connection and it skips the toad and the log.

[Dr Hooch]

http://www.last.fm/user/eggothewaffle/

my last.fm scrobbler updates very randomly :-\

It's you!

moaner; always the last to know who joke accounts belong to.

[Reaganista]

Like do modern IR scholars refer to him when scholarising IR? If they don't, then Thucydides doesn't make ancient history any more influential.
um eh carr mentioned him at least a few times
he was basically the founder of modern IR
some other people refer to him sometimes
but i disagree that they have to refer to him constantly for him to have influence

Technically, it would be, "by whom."
Technically, it would be, "go **** yourself."

[totah]

Then what is the use of ancient history, Smokey?

Pornographic fantasies set in the furthest reaches of the Roman empire! Intrigue and mystery, sex slaves and horny gladiators! What more could a D&D geek want?

Has anyone read The Bible Unearthed? It's an archaeological and historical study of the history of the semitic peoples of Canaan and how a lot of it was forged by king Josiah to unite the different peoples there for political ends in 900bc. It's really interesting. It uses the Bible for comparison.

For example, it shows that the Exodus from Egypt couldn't have happened as one swift mass migration because, at the time stated in the Bible, and for about a couple hundred years surrounding that time, Egypt's empire extended all the way up to Syria, and the coastal road from the Nile to Canaan had Egyptian garrisoned forts all along it for efficiency of trade and communications, not to mention all the Egyptian troops stationed all over the rest of the place. Then there's no evidence of large groups of migratory people in the desert of Canaan either.

It also states that, because the Nile delta was fertile every year and did not depend on weather conditions like the surrounding territories did, there were migrant workers from all over the surrounding regions going back and forth almost continuously, being hired by the Egyptian state to build cities, public works (such as the pyramids), farm, etc.

Also, though the Egyptian bureaucratic records are very thorough, there's no mention of any such people by the name of Israel until around 900bc, the same time as King Josiah (very similar name to Joshua, the guy who supposedly conquered all the cities of Canaan with a ragtag army of migrants, who shook the walls of Jericho to the ground, though archaeological evidence suggests that Jericho never had any city walls:rolleyes: ) united the peoples of Canaan around a monotheistic theology and a supposedly shared history (the patriarchs' tales, which literature and narrative scholars' analysis leads them to believe it was written using different techniques and different devices for the different patriarchs, suggesting that the Biblical version is a clever fusion of all sorts of local folk heroes and tales into an easily traceable patriarchal heritage).

Sorry, I rambled.

[Hababi]

You may have guessed that I'm not an ancient history student, so I haven't read that. What's he say in it?



A point of interest, but not a point of reference.

Exactly, there is no relevance. The Roman Empire is gone, as is the Greek; there are no more Spartans (though in terms of culture, being war-like and unconcerned with arts, certain peoples come fairly close).

I don't know...I just can't fathom the appeal...300 looked corny and geeky to me...Renaissance onward ftw :p

[PerpetualBurn]

Good news, everyone. I have tickets to see Regina Spektor at Liverpool!

[ringworm]

lol, i just checked her out on Itunes, uh……………………


good for you? :p


or were you being sarcastic?

[Mr. Ron]

Good news, everyone. I have tickets to see Regina Spektor at Liverpool!

Have fun being bored out of your mind. :p

[PerpetualBurn]

I'm not joking even slightly.

This is going to be amazing.

Edit: why the hell would I be bored?

[Reaganista]

she's like feist but uglier and worse in general
and i dont think feist is all that great to begin with

[Mr. Ron]

Her music is a snore fest. Imo


Meh, have fun.




I was stopped today by the fascist tools of the state for apparently "not coming to a complete stop" at a stop sign. ****ing pigs **** **** ****ers.

[PerpetualBurn]

Erm...interesting piano lines with brilliantly phrased vocals and astonishingly insightful lyrics.

Why are you people idiots?

[Mr. Ron]

n33ds moar methalz

[Reaganista]

her lyrics are **** and she cant sing tho
listen to avril instead imo

[Mr. Ron]

She's like



so whatever

[Reaganista]

you could so much better

[Mr. Ron]

I think we should get together now

[Reaganista]

and that's what everybody's talkin bout

[Mr. Ron]

Hey! Hey! You! You!
I don’t like your girlfriend!

[Reaganista]

ok im gonna put a stop to this before it gets out of hand

[PerpetualBurn]

her lyrics are **** and she cant sing tho
listen to avril instead imo

There are times when your posts are just too good.

[Iskandar]

Technically, it would be, "go **** yourself."You make the world a better place. Don't go changing on me.

[Dr Hooch]

Her music is a snore fest. Imo


Meh, have fun.




I was stopped today by the fascist tools of the state for apparently "not coming to a complete stop" at a stop sign. ****ing pigs **** **** ****ers.

No fu'cking sympathy here, champ. Stop signs are there for YOUR SAFETY!

It's not like you were done for protesting without a license now is it?

[gregulus]

bet-ah bet-ah bet-ah bet-ah bet-ah bet-ah BET-AHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Iskandar]

On the RA-DI-O!

[Mr. Ron]

No fu'cking sympathy here, champ. Stop signs are there for YOUR SAFETY!

It's not like you were done for protesting without a license now is it?

You have to understand this stop sign though. Its not even a intersection. Its a one way road.....with a damn stop sign in the middle.....its so odd. But I practically did come to a stop, its just that my tires were still moving a little on the line. Oh well, I'll get it reduced to a moving violation and shell out $50 and be done with it.

[lfantwister]

Aah I got pulled over today too, but I talked my way out of the ticket

[Mr. Ron]

How?

[lfantwister]

I started crying, told him my life story, said I was nervous and had never been pulled over before (that's a lie, I have but I keep talking my way out of these damn things).

[Mr. Ron]

Meh, NY cops are assholes though.

[italic zero]

what and LA cops aren't?

[Iscariot]

cops are assholes everywhere

[Der Übermensch]

I started crying, told him my life story, said I was nervous and had never been pulled over before (that's a lie, I have but I keep talking my way out of these damn things).

Course if any of us tried crying our way out of a ticket, we'd probably get the fine doubled...

[Dr Hooch]

You have to understand this stop sign though. Its not even a intersection. Its a one way road.....with a damn stop sign in the middle.....its so odd. But I practically did come to a stop, its just that my tires were still moving a little on the line. Oh well, I'll get it reduced to a moving violation and shell out $50 and be done with it.

Well, why don't you write to the council (or whatever the equivalent is) and ask them why there is a stop sign in the middle of the road?

Also; don't reeeeally believe you. ;) Then again... All sorts of crazy stufff goes down in the land of the free.

[Mr. Ron]

Well, why don't you write to the council (or whatever the equivalent is) and ask them why there is a stop sign in the middle of the road?

Also; don't reeeeally believe you. ;) Then again... All sorts of crazy stufff goes down in the land of the free.

Why would I lie about something so stupid as this? My streets are all messed up.

Its not worth writing....I'll just go to court, sit in an office for an hour and shell out money to the state.

[Reaganista]

i have a court date in july which is a pain in the *** since ill be in manhattan i think i might just change my plea idk

[italic zero]

Course if any of us tried crying our way out of a ticket, we'd probably get the fine doubled...
i don't know, if someone like Jared started crying the cop might get scared and just walk away quickly

[griftadan]

i have untill july 6th to pay the $352 fine for my diversion program. i think i have like 30 dollars in my account...

[Dr Hooch]

Why would I lie about something so stupid as this? My streets are all messed up.

Its not worth writing....I'll just go to court, sit in an office for an hour and shell out money to the state.

Why, how long does it take?

If everybody who saw the stupid stop sign wrote it'd be gone by now.

Would you mind telling us that story?

yes, absolutely, i wouldn't mind telling you the story. erm...i went to court today for a speeding ticket, and i told the judge, erm..."let me tell you something, and you listen and you listen good, i'm only gonna say this one time and one time only, i don't repeat myself for nobody," i said. i says..."i'm here to pay a speeding ticket, not to listen to your lectures and hear you run your mouth for an hour." i says "i'm here to pay off my speeding ticket...and i'm here to get my fines out of the way and get the **** to work." the judge says "you can't talk like that in my courtroom, you're in contempt of court." then i said...i told the judge, "if that's the best you can do, i feel sorry for you." i said "why don't you just shut your ****ing mouth for once and listen." i said "i'm not gonna take any ****." i said "i'm gonna pay my speeding ticket like i said." i walked up to the god damn judge and i hand him my 25 dollars and i says "here's my money, now i am leaving."
and i left it at that...
...then, before i left, i turned around and told the judge "i'm here to state who i am and be honest with you." i said "if they thought i was dangerous on the road like you're trying to accuse me of, wouldn't they have taken my license when i first got it? yes they would. and the judge says "yeah, you have a point," he goes "you don't need to get loud," i said "don't get loud?" i says "i've got every right to get loud." i says "you can't do a god damn thing about it, because i'm expressing myself in your court, and there is nothing you can do about it. you think you're god because you have a robe and you can put people up the god damn river for 20 years? well you're not."
and i left it at that...

did you walk away?

yes i did...i don't like the judicial system, i don't like the government system, i don't like the police, i don't like anything to do with this country's government. i just don't like it, because...they're sneaky, like i said - they're deceitful, they're lying, they're cheats, the rip people off. that's the american government for you. america is a third world country, and people don't recognise it...and i think that that's pretty god damn sad, that they don't recognise their own country as a third world, third rate, third class slum.

[Reaganista]

have untill july 6th to pay the $352 fine for my diversion program.
wtf is a diversion program and why do they want that much money

[griftadan]

it's unsupervised probation, i got it last year for an ID violation

[Dr Hooch]

as in for a fake ID?

:lol:

Those just get seized over here

[griftadan]

uh yeah. i guess i'll tell the whole story in all of its unbriddled ridiculousness.

ok so i go out on a saturday night and get bombed at a house party, and me and my friends make our way back to their dorm where we will continue to drink. at the univeristy of kansas, if it's past 11pm you have to check in at the front door of all dormitories, and if you're not a resident you have to give them an ID for them to hold onto while you're there. so my firend checks me in, and i realize that the only ID i have on me is my fake (the only one i ever take out at night so i won't be tempted to drive), so i use that to check in. so we go upstairs and proceed to drink a few more beers in my friends room, and about 10 minutes into it someone knocks on the door, and it's a COP. so everyone flips out because were all smashed, but he only asks for me and he takes me downstairs to an office to question me. apperently, the guy at the front door called the campus police on a hunch that i wasn't actually 22, so now i have to go through a year of diversion because that guy was a huge ****ing tool and has nothing better to do other than wasting 2 other peoples time and money.

[PerpetualBurn]

The fact that you need to be 21 to drink still confuses me. It's easily the stupidest thing ever.

[Dr Hooch]

:lol:

You have the silliest country

why does what time you check in matter to them?

It's not a crime to stay out late, drink with friends, and watch the stars, is it?

[griftadan]

The fact that you need to be 21 to drink still confuses me. It's easily the stupidest thing ever.

agreed

You have the silliest country

why does what time you check in matter to them?

It's not a crime to stay out late, drink with friends, and watch the stars, is it?

i think it's a security precaution, if something happens they want to know who was in the building with who.

[spitfirejunky]

:lol: That's ****ing balls, man.

[PerpetualBurn]

They should do what they do at our SU. You need a student with ID to sign you in and you need ID yourself. What's the point in holding on to it. And what's the point in letting you in and then calling the fuzz.

[Waltz Profit]

The fact that you need to be 21 to drink still confuses me. It's easily the stupidest thing ever.

because if they lowered the age to 18 we would have at least half a decade of really really really really low grade point averages at all places of higher learning

[griftadan]

They should do what they do at our SU. You need a student with ID to sign you in and you need ID yourself. What's the point in holding on to it. And what's the point in letting you in and then calling the fuzz.

he's a little prick who can't handle confrontation by himself.

whats worse is not only did i get in trouble with the police, i got reprimanded by the housing department. if the school felt willing and able to deal with me themselves, why were the police involved? it ****ing sucks..

[PerpetualBurn]

Most other developed countries cope without having such a stupid drinking age.

[Waltz Profit]

Most other developed countries cope without having such a stupid drinking age.

lol

haven't you ever posted in a gun control thread

[griftadan]

because if they lowered the age to 18 we would have at least half a decade of really really really really low grade point averages at all places of higher learning

as if the law really stops people like me from drinking...

[lfantwister]

the drinking age doesnt really stop underage kids from drinking...

edit: beaten

[Waltz Profit]

as if the law really stops people like me from drinking...

of course

if i wanted to, i could get whatever i want to drink whenever i want

it's like gun control laws, people who really really want to get what they want will get it no matter what laws are in place

but completely repealing those laws with america's current zeitgeist isn't really going to be beneficial, even if other countries do perfectly fine without those laws or whatever

different countries have different cultures guys

[PerpetualBurn]

different countries have different cultures guys

A culture that necessitates a drinking age of 21 sounds like a crappy culture.

[Reaganista]

The fact that you need to be 21 to drink still confuses me. It's easily the stupidest thing ever.
and only slightly less stupid is having to be 18 to drink

You have the silliest country

why does what time you check in matter to them?

ok i am kind of envious of you guys getting to live in a place where crime is not a constant consideration

although i thought kansas was one of those places, but lawrence is a really bizarre place so idk

[griftadan]

well if you consider consumption of drugs and alcohol a crime (which the university does apparently) lawrence is definately not like the rest of kansas

[Reaganista]

no i consider getting mugged at gunpoint a crime

[griftadan]

than it's pretty middle america, i've never felt nervous about walking home late at night. you have to watch out for drunk drivers though...

[Reaganista]

is there still hippies

[griftadan]

too many for my taste

[Reaganista]

rofl

[Dr Hooch]

and only slightly less stupid is having to be 18 to drink

Should be 18 for spirits, 16 for beer/cider/wine IMO

[Hababi]

Should be 18 for spirits, 16 for beer/cider/wine IMO

I say 18 for everything so long as kids can get their license at 16.

[PerpetualBurn]

Should be 18 for spirits, 16 for beer/cider/wine IMO

This is retarded. Being forced to drink Snakebite instead of vodka is no restraint.

[Reaganista]

Should be 18 for spirits, 16 for beer/cider/wine IMO
or there should be no age restriction on any of them

[Hababi]

or there should be no age restriction on any of them

Bad idea to give immature kids alcohol and cars.

[Dr Hooch]

This is retarded. Being forced to drink Snakebite instead of vodka is no restraint.

I've never drunk snakebite, but whenever i see kids drinkin on street corners, it's always vodka or bourbon and it is possible to binge on beer obviously but having to drink 20x as much liquid makes it distinctly more difficult?

[PerpetualBurn]

Not really. Kids are lightweights.

[spitfirejunky]

and only slightly less stupid is having to be 18 to drink

Can you elaborate?

[Reaganista]

Bad idea to give immature kids alcohol and cars.
what you mean like we do in the US :confused:

i agree it's a bad idea to let people drive when theyre still completely immature about alcohol

Can you elaborate?
3 years difference is slight wats to elaborate about

[spitfirejunky]

Just wondering exactly why it was "slightly less stupid".

[Reaganista]

because the correct 'drinking age' is 0 and 18 is slightly closer to 0 than 21...

[Iscariot]

In moderation, alcohol consumption has significant health benefits. These include a lower risk of heart attack [1], lower risk of diabetes [2], lower risk of Alzheimer's disease [3], reduced risk of stroke [4], and an increase in overall longevity [5]. It is important to note however that excessive consumption of alcohol has serious detrimental effects to a person's health.

A 2001 report estimates that medium and high consumption of alcohol led to 75,754 deaths in the USA. Low consumption has some beneficial effects so a net 59,180 deaths were attributed to alcohol. [2] Alcohol has also been linked to cancer. "3.6% of all cancer cases worldwide are related to alcohol drinking, resulting in 3.5% of all cancer deaths." (See Alcohol and cancer for details) [3] Alcohol is also a potentially addictive substance to a large percentage of people.

Alcohol addiction can also lead to malnutrition because it can alter digestion and metabolism of most nutrients. Severe thiamine deficiancy is very common due to deficiancy of folate, riboflavin, vitamin B6 and selenium. Muscle cramps, nausea, appetite loss, nerve disorders and depression are some common symptoms. It can also lead to osteoporosis and bone fractures due to vitamin D deficiancy (Vitamin D helps in calcium absorption). Alcohol stimulates insulin production which speeds up the glucose metabolism and can result in low blood sugar.

Alcohol affects the brain, causing slurred speech, clumsiness, slow reflexes, and a loss of inhibition. The consumption of alcohol does not kill brain cells but rather damages dendrites, the branched ends of nerve cells that bring messages into the cell.

Alcohol dilates the channels in the cellular structure that regulates the flow of calcium, causing more calcium than normal to flow into the cells and stimulating increased activity. This does not kill the whole cell, but causes a loss of the end segments, leading to the loss of incoming signals and therefore a change in brain function.

Most of this damage is temporary, but the recovery process changes nerve-cell structure permanently.[4]

that being said i think a limit of 21 years is fine but needs to be more heavily enforced

teenagers aren't drinking for any beneficial purposes they're drinking just to get shitfaced **** like rabbits and pass out

plus the human brain doesn't stop developing until the age of 25 and altering the function of your brain cells and brain activity when you're still several years below that mark could have any number of consequences

[lfantwister]

teenagers aren't drinking for any beneficial purposes they're drinking just to get shitfaced **** like rabbits and pass out

wait what other beneficial purposes are there to drinking

[Knifeboy]

No drinking age in denmark.
Everyone can drink.
Only above 15 can buy though, and have to be 18 to get served at bars

[Mr. Ron]

And is there a drinking problem there?

[Knifeboy]

There's a drinking problem in every single country in the world

Except, maybe, Norway.. But that's because it's so expensive, and hard to get...
But then they go to denmark and binge drink, and pass out on our streets