PNWI Community Thread version 3.0 (KEEP REFRIGERATED AT ALL TIMES)

[lunchforthesky]

NP: Immortal Technique - Dance With The Devil is a song that makes me feel a bit sick inside.

I really overplayed that song, but its still great. Except the ending with is weird.

[Der Übermensch]

States can set the drinkning age lower then 21, but if they do, they lose most of the federal funding for highways, so there is little incentive. I think NY was the last state to be below 21, and that was ages ago.

[Mr. Ron]

States can set the drinkning age lower then 21, but if they do, they lose most of the federal funding for highways, so there is little incentive. I think NY was the last state to be below 21, and that was ages ago.

Nope. I live in NY and it's still 21. :[

[Der Übermensch]

...Ages ago being late 70's I think...

[Mr. Ron]

Ah.

[Iskandar]

Abolish the drinking age, anyone?

[PerpetualBurn]

I'm fine with a drinking age like in England. It's legal for under 18's to drink at home with adult supervision or to have a drink with a meal in a restaurant.

[Iskandar]

Not far enough! Underage drinkers need liberty!

[Mr. Ron]

Well, I don't think it's right for a bunch of 12 year olds to walk into a quickie mart and buy alcohol, so I think a reasonable drinking age is fine. Like 16-17.

[griftadan]

it should be 18 for everything

[Iskandar]

Well, I don't think it's right for a bunch of 12 year olds to walk into a quickie mart and buy alcohol, so I think a reasonable drinking age is fine. Like 16-17.
I think the restriction should be on selling, not drinking.

[Mr. Ron]

I think the restriction should be on selling, not drinking.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. :]

[Iskandar]

I wanted to rep you in the Prince Harry thread, but couldn't.:(

[Mr. Ron]

I repz you a lot.



Are you a big fan of star wars? I love the films. :]

[Iskandar]

I repz you a lot.



Are you a big fan of star wars? I love the films. :]Thanks for the rep.

Yeah, I've always loved the old Star Wars. Han Solo = :cool:

[Mr. Ron]

Definetly. Han is the perfect model for a space "pirate" if there ever was one. I always wanted to get into the books but since there are so many it seems like a daunting task.

[Iskandar]

Definetly. Han is the perfect model for a space "pirate" if there ever was one. I always wanted to get into the books but since there are so many it seems like a daunting task.Well, most of them suck, quite frankly, so that narrows it down a lot.

Try the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn: Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command. But if you don't like them, you didn't hear it from me, ok?

Even the better books are really just meant to entertain. They're not great literature or anything.

[Mr. Ron]

Well, most of them suck, quite frankly, so that narrows it down a lot.

Try the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn: Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command. But if you don't like them, you didn't hear it from me, ok?

Even the better books are really just meant to entertain. They're not great literature or anything.

Yeah, I sort of figured that. I still have to get reading Discworld. That one is long overdue.

[Iskandar]

Yeah, I sort of figured that. I still have to get reading Discworld. That one is long overdue.
Those are funny books.

I seem to recall liking Small Gods a lot.

[coheneran]

My favourite Star Wars was Episode 1.

I've read every single Discworld book and msot of the non-discworld ones. I love it.

[Mr. Ron]

Ugh I want to read them right now but I'm strapped for cash.

[pedro durruti]

See if they're at the library bro.

[coheneran]

There're loads of them in libraries.

I wanna see the film they made out of Hogfather.

[Mr. Ron]

True. I haven't been to a library since I was.....15? Wow.

[Iskandar]

My favourite Star Wars was Episode 1.
... Why?

[coheneran]

Because winding up nerds is fun?

[Mr. Ron]

The newest ones were absolutely terrible.


"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo o!!!!!"

[Iskandar]

Because winding up nerds is fun?I didn't get wound up, just confused.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm reading through LOTR again. 5th time.

[pedro durruti]

I started reading the first one over summer and put it down once they got to Tom's house, and haven't picked it up since.

[Mr. Ron]

Tom Bombadil is such an interesting anomaly in the book.

[Iskandar]

I dislike him and usually skip the chapters involving him.

[RockAndRoll]

He's my best friend.

[Mr. Ron]

I dislike him and usually skip the chapters involving him.

Why is that?

[Der Übermensch]

Because winding up nerds is fun?

I'm a Yankees fan cause I live in Maine and it pisses off all the sox fans, but I can at least justify the fact that they are actually a good team regardless.

It doesn't matter what angle you look at it - pissing off nerds included, the Episodes 1-3 sucked...

[spitfirejunky]

The newest ones were absolutely terrible.


"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo o!!!!!"

http://vaderfortune.ytmnd.com/

[Mr. Ron]

http://vaderfortune.ytmnd.com/

lol

[thedeadwalk!]

I dislike him and usually skip the chapters involving him.
I dislike the book and usually skip the chapters involving it.

That man is long-winded.

[coheneran]

Tom Bombadil is my favourite character. I was really disappointed that he wasn't in the film, though I can see how that would lower the tone a lot.

Anyone read Tom Bombadil's' Adventures?

EDIT: New avatar and titles.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

My favourite discworlds are Reaper Man, The colour of MAgic and Jingo

[coheneran]

Jingo was great, first one I read.

I can't really decide which my favourite ones are, but I like the Rincewind ones best, usually. Going Postal was great, though.

[Mr. Ron]

Tom Bombadil is my favourite character. I was really disappointed that he wasn't in the film, though I can see how that would lower the tone a lot.

Anyone read Tom Bombadil's' Adventures?

EDIT: New avatar and titles.

No I haven't, but I plan to.

[coheneran]

It's good. Farmer Giles Of Ham is also really really great. TBH I prefer his non-Ring-based books.

Nobody's asked why the Cornish nationalism.

[Mr. Ron]

WHY THE NATIONALISM?!

[coheneran]

To see if a user called Jonni gets annoyed. He's an English "patriot". He went on Stormfront once and asked about the possibility of him joining a BNP-like group even though he's Jewish. He's anti-Zionist and anti-immigrant. Weird politics, really. If one of those stormfront groups comes into power, he'll be the first on the charter planes out of here.

[PerpetualBurn]

Why Cornwall though?

If anyone separates, it should be Yorkshire. We'd kick seven shades of shite out of those soft southern puffs anyday.

[Iskandar]

I dislike the book and usually skip the chapters involving it.

That man is long-winded.
You must not have much of an attention span, then.

[coheneran]

Why Cornwall though?

If anyone separates, it should be Yorkshire. We'd kick seven shades of shite out of those soft southern puffs anyday.

As far as I know the only Yorkshirian nationalist separatist groups are those trying to create the Islamic Republic of West Yorkshire.

Cornwall has a proper separatist movement though, like 50,000 strong.

[PerpetualBurn]

Well most Yorkshiremen have a tendency to shrug and mutter the immortal phrase "Be reight", so that keeps numbers down a bit.

[coheneran]

Yeah.

Apparantly in the 80s there was a period when most town halls in South Yorkshire were flying the red flag. People were going around calling it the People's Republic of South Yorkshire.

EDIT: I just realised my new avatar and titles setup won't piss Jonni off, he probably won't even realise it was aimed at him. I know what will though.

EDIT 2: Now he'll be mad.:D

[ringworm]

Whoa, talk about your sphincter drawing up :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TAnqhBHaF4

[coheneran]

Hahaha, that's hilarious. Check it out: www.savetube.com

[thedeadwalk!]

You must not have much of an attention span, then.
I do when it's interesting.

[coheneran]

Yeah yeah, whatever, that's what Bush said about The Littlest Goat.

[thedeadwalk!]

Just because I don't like Tolkien doesn't mean that was called for. Also, The Littlest Goat is very good. But that's neither here nor there.

[Iskandar]

I don't see how one can argue that Tolkien is long-winded or features too much description unless one lacks an attention span. Seriously, have you ever read a novel before?

[pedro durruti]

I vaguely remember him over-describing things.

[Mr. Ron]

I think the amount of description that occurs in LOTR is needed for the grand scope of the journey to become more apparent to the reader. Plus Tolkien does a wonderful job at "painting" the scene in your head with his descriptions.

[pedro durruti]

Yeah that's true. Although it's sometimes a bit excessive, his words map out the terrain very well.

[Mr. Ron]

I must admit though. Reading the Silmarillion is a bear.

[Iskandar]

I must admit though. Reading the Silmarillion is a bear.
That's why there are pages of maps, glossaries, and genealogies at the end. They help a lot.

[Mr. Ron]

That's why there are pages of maps, glossaries, and genealogies at the end. They help a lot.

Oh for sure. Once you really sit back and think about it, the world that Tolkien created is very amazing.

[Iskandar]

I was really into the whole thing, especially The Silmarillion, a few years ago. It really is amazing, how immersed you can get in it.

[Anglachel]

I got through the Silmarillion

Can you tell what my favourite part of it was?

[thedeadwalk!]

I don't see how one can argue that Tolkien is long-winded or features too much description unless one lacks an attention span. Seriously, have you ever read a novel before?
Okay, what the hell? So I don't find every word on the page interesting, or needed, therefore I'm some kind of philistine? I'm not saying the guy isn't good at what he does, because it is very elaborate and well thought out, I'm just saying I don't need paragraphs about the trees and grass. It's superfluous to me. Not to say there shouldn't be description of the surroundings that an event takes place but not like this. It was like reading Battlefield Earth again; just tedious.

I don't know if you're winding me up (or just maybe negligent fanboyism), but I really have a problem when people insult my intelligence. I admit I'm probably not as smart as most of the regulars here, but I still take exception to comments like you've made to me recently.

[Smokey D]

My favourite discworlds are Reaper Man, The colour of MAgic and Jingo

Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, and the last three Vimes books rock socks.

[PerpetualBurn]

I don't see how one can argue that Tolkien is long-winded or features too much description unless one lacks an attention span. Seriously, have you ever read a novel before?

I could get irritated by this taboo that has become of criticising Tolkien.

[coheneran]

Tolkien's nothing compared to Gene Roddenberry. The dude invented a whole new language based on the culture of a made-up warrior race, and he did it overnight!

[spitfirejunky]

I don't see how one can argue that Tolkien is long-winded or features too much description unless one lacks an attention span. Seriously, have you ever read a novel before?

Anyone who can say this with a straight face did not read Fellowship of the Ring.

[coheneran]

Alex read Das Kapital in one go without taking a break dude.

[Mr. Ron]

Anyone who can say this with a straight face did not read Fellowship of the Ring.

I was never bored reading that book. In all seriousness.


Coheneran do you really believe 7/7 was an inside job?:amaze:

[coheneran]

I don't know man, and I don't really care.

Have you ever realised that the name of every continent starts and ends with the same letter? Isn't that weird?

[Mr. Ron]

Never really noticed.

[coheneran]

I'm supposed to be reading two ballads for homework, but I'd much rather complete Deus Ex again.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm reading The Belgariad by David Eddings.

[Anglachel]

I'm reading The Belgariad by David Eddings.
Excellent series

Get the Malloreon when you're done it

[coheneran]

I really wanna read Illuminati!. I've heard good things.

[PerpetualBurn]

I'm supposed to be reading two ballads for homework, but I'd much rather complete Deus Ex again.

Godammit, now I want to complete Deus Ex again.

[coheneran]

Lol. It's good ain't it? I'm at Area 51 again.

[PerpetualBurn]

That's possibly the best bit.

[coheneran]

I don't know, I quite like the beginning levels in NY. And the bit after you're arrested and you have to escape and all you have is a baton (to start with). And the Paris and Hong-Kong levels.

I like the lot really. But not the underwater levels so much, or the Vandenberg levels.

[PerpetualBurn]

I enjoy Area 51 but the escape with the baton I'd agree is the best bit. The whole Daedalus thing is intense.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I've never played deus ex

I might buy it once i finish half life (original)

[PerpetualBurn]

Good news! The University won't reveal if the plans for their new bus service will require every student to pay a mandatory charge, so we've issued an ultimatum with a threat to protest at every scheduled open day!

[coheneran]

Wicked, are you in the SU?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Good news! The University won't reveal if the plans for their new bus service will require every student to pay a mandatory charge, so we've issued an ultimatum with a threat to protest at every scheduled open day!

hahahaha


university is SOPWNED

[coheneran]

Americans: Have you seen those badges that say "EVOLUTION: A Leap Of Faith"? What would happen if one was to walk around the Bible Belt with a badge saying "FAITH: An Error Of Evolution"?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Americans: Have you seen those badges that say "EVOLUTION: A Leap Of Faith"? What would happen if one was to walk around the Bible Belt with a badge saying "FAITH: An Error Of Evolution"?

About the same thing as driving through the deep south with "hilary for president" and "man love rules ok" written on your car i guess ;)

[Mr. Ron]

Is it true that Cheney got attacked by a suicide bomber this morning?

[coheneran]

Actually, I like the idea of a "Man Love Rules, OK?" badge.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

Actually, I like the idea of a "Man Love Rules, OK?" badge.

This t-shirt: http://dirtymicrobe.com/products/inbreeding

[pedro durruti]

Is it true that Cheney got attacked by a suicide bomber this morning?
He wasn't hurt but there was a bombing that killed like 18 people at some base he was visiting.

[Iskandar]

I don't know if you're winding me up
I am. Relax.
Tolkien's nothing compared to Gene Roddenberry. The dude invented a whole new language based on the culture of a made-up warrior race, and he did it overnight!
You mean Klingon? That was James Duihan (Scotty) and it was later refined by someone. He only invented the fundamentals of the language I think.
Alex read Das Kapital in one go without taking a break dude.
I wish! I never even got through the first volume. Maybe when I'm retired...

[coheneran]

You mean Klingon? That was James Duihan (Scotty) and it was later refined by someone. He only invented the fundamentals of the language I think.

Oh my GOD you are SUCH a GEEK.

[Mr. Ron]

Hey dropper, who is your favorite character in lotr?

[pedro durruti]

I wish! I never even got through the first volume. Maybe when I'm retired...
Haha, I never realized it was such an extensive book until I saw it at Powell's. I then realized why Communists were so few.

[Iskandar]

Oh my GOD you are SUCH a GEEK.
No, just a Wikipedia addict with too much time on his hands. I don't like Star Trek really. I've seen a couple of the movies and they were cool. I used to like Star Wars and Tolkien too. That's the extent of my geek pursuits.
Hey dropper, who is your favorite character in lotr?
Gandalf by far. I like Aragorn and Faramir too though. What about you?
Haha, I never realized it was such an extensive book until I saw it at Powell's. I then realized why Communists were so few.
Well, it's not really interesting to someone without a little background in economics (which I have) though it's not overly technical. It's just dry and really, really long.

[Mr. Ron]

No, just a Wikipedia addict with too much time on his hands. I don't like Star Trek really. I've seen a couple of the movies and they were cool. I used to like Star Wars and Tolkien too. That's the extent of my geek pursuits.

Gandalf by far. I like Aragorn and Faramir too though. What about you?

Well, it's not really interesting to someone without a little background in economics (which I have) though it's not overly technical. It's just dry and really, really long.

Gandalf.

Gimli is up there as well (especially when he gets all sappy over Galadriel's gift of her hair haha), never really cared for Legolas. Sam is a close third because of his personality and jokes. I also think Boromir would have been a very interesting character if Tolkien didn't kill him off that early into the journey.

[Iskandar]

Gandalf.

Gimli is up there as well (especially when he gets all sappy over Galadriel's gift of her hair haha), never really cared for Legolas. Sam is a close third because of his personality and jokes. I also think Boromir would have been a very interesting character if Tolkien didn't kill him off that early into the journey.
Awesome. Legolas is kind of interesting.

I haven't read that in such a long time. My favourite was The Two Towers. It had such an (not to sound gay, but there is no other word) intricate plot.

[spitfirejunky]

My favorite is Saruman. They omitted from the movies a lot of the badass Saruman parts in the books.

[DBoons Ghost]

OMG Politics joke. Funny if you're a republican and merely amusing if you're a democrat, but not all that funny if you don't understand.


Air Force One lands on a DC airfield and Bush steps off the plane with a pig under each arm. The marine set to recieve Bush says to the President "Those are some nice pigs sir." To this, Bush looking surprised says, "These aren't just pigs young man.. these are genuine Arkansas Razorbacks.. This one under my left arm I got for Nancy Pelosi, and this one under my right arm I got for Hilary Clinton." The marine nodded and said "Excellent trades sir".

[Iskandar]

I don't get it at all, unless it vaguely alludes to sex.

[DBoons Ghost]

I don't get it at all, unless it vaguely alludes to sex.


Well, the President bought the pigs as gifts, one for Pelosi and one for Clinton, while the marine thought he traded Clinton and Pelosi away for the pigs.

Maybe it's not funny really.

I tell this joke better in person. Delivery is key for solid comedy.

[coheneran]

I got it. It's not hilarious.

I got one:

Q: Why is America so crappy?
A: Republicans.

[DBoons Ghost]

I got it. It's not hilarious.

I got one:

Q: Why is America so crappy?
A: Republicans.

You know.. More wars have been started by Democrats then Republicans. More conflicts have been entered just the same. In fact, the only Republican aside from the horror that is Bush to get us into serious conflict was Abe Lincoln, and I would be surprised to think he was a bad President. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I voted Republican more often then not in local elections especially, and it's kept my pockets happy. I really don't care much for anyone else. Republicans tend to be good for America and bad for everyone else, while Democrats tend to be good for everyone but Americans. Bush is the only one who has been just bad for everyone.

We all can't have perfect leaders throughout our history now can we? We can have a field day talking about Maggy but we never do that now do we.

[thedeadwalk!]

Two guys walk in to a bar. The third guy ducks.

That's the only joke I know (:/).

[Iskandar]

I'm going to rep you in reparation for ripping on you earlier. I apologize.

[DBoons Ghost]

I should neg rep you both for your insolence.

I tire of the mob mentality in this forum. Especially since neither of you live here.

[pedro durruti]

Why don't you kiss him...

[coheneran]

Aww, I'm sorry. Besides, I think the joke was incorrect. Here's a new version:

Q: Why does every country suck?
A: Government, capitalism and religion.

It's not really what you or me'd call a joke, nevertheless...

[DBoons Ghost]

Well, I agree with you there, but I am biased. I am successful you see, and most people who are successful have little to gripe about. I happen to love capitalism. I kind of hate America but I love NYC. Like, if all of America sunk into the ocean and NYC floated away to be a little island all on it's own I'd be happy. Also, I kind of like government but religion is the true killer.

Without religion we'd be free from scrutiny, and then once free from that our lives would forever thrive.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

We all can't have perfect leaders throughout our history now can we? We can have a field day talking about Maggy but we never do that now do we.

BEcause she's gone, and bush isn't.


But like with you guys situation, if she hadn't happened I'm not sure I'd have much of a country to be enjoying, tbh.

[Iskandar]

No, that makes no sense. What, did Thatcher save Britain?

[coheneran]

Yes, from those blood-thirsty Argentinians.

[Volumnius Flush]

I got it. It's not hilarious.

I got one:

Q: Why is America so crappy?
A: Republicans.

Q: Why is America so crappy?
A: Democrats like Roosevelt and Johnson!

[griftadan]

Aww, I'm sorry. Besides, I think the joke was incorrect. Here's a new version:

Q: Why does every country suck?
A: Government, capitalism and religion.

It's not really what you or me'd call a joke, nevertheless...

pretty much every country with those things is awesome, so i'm not sure what you're talking about.

[coheneran]

No, every country is crappy, that is the premise of the joke.

[Iskandar]

It would appear from the example of the Scandanavian countries, which are consistently rated to have the highest standards of living in the world, that the best countries are those with democratic government, mixed economies and less emphasis on religion. Extrapolating from this, we arrive at ... directly democratic secular socialism?

[Mr. Ron]

It would appear from the example of the Scandanavian countries, which are consistently rated to have the highest standards of living in the world, that the best countries are those with democratic government, mixed economies and less emphasis on religion. Extrapolating from this, we arrive at ... directly democratic secular socialism?

I love those words together in one sentence. :chug:

[Iskandar]

I love those words together in one sentence. :chug:
"It was a textbook conversion." - George Orwell, 1984.

I like that you like those words. But how did you come to that conclusion?

[Mr. Ron]

"It was a textbook conversion." - George Orwell, 1984.

I like that you like those words. But how did you come to that conclusion?

Well, I loves me some secularism since I'm an atheist. Plus I've been looking into democratic socialism for some time now and I like what I see.

[Iskandar]

That's great.:) But how are you going to vote now?

[Mr. Ron]

That's great.:) But how are you going to vote now?

Good question......Not too sure. I'm not afraid of not voting all together if no candidate reaches my expectations. Are you voting?

[Der Übermensch]

You know.. More wars have been started by Democrats then Republicans. More conflicts have been entered just the same. In fact, the only Republican aside from the horror that is Bush to get us into serious conflict was Abe Lincoln, and I would be surprised to think he was a bad President. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Started and getting us into are different things...
WW1, WW2, Korea, Gulf War 1 were all results of justifiable provocation, and Civil War, while different, I don't think deserves to be on the list below.
The only one a Democrat started was Kennedy getting us into Vietnam.
Republicans got Started the Spanish-American War and Second Gulf War.
So interms of starting the conflict, Reps are up 2 - 1. (4 - 1 if you include invading Grenada and Panama, but those were kind of small...)

[Iskandar]

Good question......Not too sure. I'm not afraid of not voting all together if no candidate reaches my expectations. Are you voting?
Of course. I plan to vote in every election that comes my way.

[Smokey D]

No, that makes no sense. What, did Thatcher save Britain?

It's pretty likely Britain would be in an even worse state than France or Germany without Thatcher's reforms. Unless something changed, Britain was on its way to becoming a second-world economy.

However, she was probably too vicious in her application of what was necessary.

directly democratic secular socialism?

Directly democratic? Not really. Socialist, only sorta. They still use a lot of typically liberal-capitalist models.

[Petros]

I really wanna read Illuminati!. I've heard good things.

I didn't like Illuminatus much. I couldn't keep track of the shi going on and all the characters popping in and out of the book.

[PerpetualBurn]

Wicked, are you in the SU?

Course I am.

There's also controversy because the lecturers have received a 3% pay rise, where as the Vice Chancellor has been given a 31.7% pay rise.

[PerpetualBurn]

It's pretty likely Britain would be in an even worse state than France or Germany without Thatcher's reforms. Unless something changed, Britain was on its way to becoming a second-world economy.

However, she was probably too vicious in her application of what was necessary.


Thatcher was evil.

[Smokey D]

Unions holding the entire economy hostage weren't very helpful either. I'm all for an empowered workplace, but some sort of balance needs to be struck.

[PerpetualBurn]

I suppose part of my dislike, if I'm being objective, comes from the fact I live near an industrial city where Thatcher is still very much a dirty word.

However there's little defending some of the things she did. After everyone was suddenly able to buy their council house mortgages rates soared. Families were crippled.

[Smokey D]

Of course a large proportion of her policies (if not the majority of them) were misguided or had negative effects. That doesn't mean, however, that all of her policies were equally bad or that none of them had some positives.

[PerpetualBurn]

No, but she basically destroyed industry and crippled many working class people for the sake of a battle with the unions. I appreciate that the unions had perhaps too much power, but I find it hard to sympathise with her considering she simply didn't care about the expense.

[coheneran]

No, but she basically destroyed industry and crippled many working class people for the sake of a battle with the unions. I appreciate that the unions had perhaps too much power, but I find it hard to sympathise with her considering she simply didn't care about the expense.

Physically as well as economically.

I don't think there's such a thing as a union with too much power. After all, we live in a democracy and the industry belongs to all who work it, and since most of those are the workers and not the bosses, it stands to reason that they can make whatever demands they want, it's their workplace.

[Smokey D]

Some, if not all, of the industries she destroyed were completely unprofitable and only maintained because of the power of the unions. This is particuarly true of things like mining etc.

[coheneran]

So why did she even bother? I'm not absolutley clear on the timelines, but surely if there was a huge miners' strike, she in effect got what she wanted? Why try to break a strike in an industry she doesn't even want?

[PerpetualBurn]

Except now we import coal at 5 times what it would cost if the mines weren't mainly in such disrepair as to be not worth restoring. And it was at a time when most of Europe was subsidising their coal industry anyway.

[Smokey D]

So why did she even bother? I'm not absolutley clear on the timelines, but surely if there was a huge miners' strike, she in effect got what she wanted? Why try to break a strike in an industry she doesn't even want?

Because not breaking it would leave an overly powerful union in a position to jeapordise the whole economy.

Except now we import coal at 5 times what it would cost if the mines weren't mainly in such disrepair as to be not worth restoring.

If they're less profitable than foreign mines, it would be bad economic sense to operate domestic mines.

And it was at a time when most of Europe was subsidising their coal industry anyway.

So you expect the taxpayers to subsidise your lifestyle.

[PerpetualBurn]

No, the point is that our coal was no worse off than anyone elses, she dropped subsidies to intentionally cripple the coal industry to win a fight with the unions. And in doing so unemployment more than doubled.

[Mr. Ron]

Now, I don't believe in conspiracy theories or anything, but...


Last night I was listening to the late night news on my radio and apparently there's a huge story about to come out on how an American and BBC news reporter reported that the WC building 7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it actually collapsed. Two news reporters in different countries reporting that the building collapsed well before it actually did? The person reporting the news last night said that after the American reporter realized that she was STILL STANDING IN FRONT of the WTC building 7 FULLY INTACT after she said it collapsed, she panicked and cut the live feed, and the lived feed only came back on 20 minute slater when building 7 finally collapsed. How they hell did they know?

I'm not saying this is true or anything, I'm just a messenger but it DOES sound really weird to me, and this is coming from me.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

YEah, you guys get me all wrong; thatcher was a horrible lady, and there's no way around that. But, frankly, union leaders aren't economists, and a crippled economy is bad for everyone.

[coheneran]

I think it's funny how easy it is to turn something nonsensical into a bandwagon that everyone's gonna jump on. Honestly, the way I see it, there are two bandwagons when it comes to 9/11; the Conspiracy Theory Bandwagon, and the Don't-Listen-To-The-Conspiracy-Nuts Bandwagon. What fundamentally connects these two groups is that everyone in both of them actually cares about 9/11. Now me, I fall in the middle, not on any wagon, because I honestly couldn't care less about 3000 dead Americans. No, that's not right, I care about them just as much as I care about the Mexicans dead in the desert and the Iraqis dead in the cities and the Africans starving in the villages and the Indonesians dead in the factories and the Indians and Sri Lankans dead in the sea.

That is to say, I care to the extent that I'll say I care, but wouldn't do anything past that.

[DBoons Ghost]

You realize that not all the people who died that day were Americans. The majority were, but there were many who weren't. There were even some illegal immigrants among them, which I think is ironic. I won't argue your other spewage because you're entitled to your opinion, but just as long as you understand there were many ex-patriots from other countries among the dead.

[coheneran]

That does nothing to my point, I don't care about Americans dying any less than I do about people from other parts of the world, as I indicated in my post.

[DBoons Ghost]

Cool. Gloom and doom gloom and doom! So when you gonna give up your comfortable chair and PC for a cardboard box and burlap sack? Your despair towards humanity is disheartening to say the least. I think it's funny you intend to rely on the good faith of complete strangers as you squat your future away, yet you could care less about any of them.

[PerpetualBurn]

So he should care more about deaths in the USA than deaths in Africa?

[coheneran]

Checkit boiz: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=49f_1172526096&c=1

DBoon, that's just silly. I care that people die, but as it doesn't affect me, I'm not gonna shed a tear. It's humanity baby, it's what we do. Now when someone I know dies, that's a different matter.

[DBoons Ghost]

So he should care more about deaths in the USA than deaths in Africa?

Not at all. I don't. I don't care about deaths in Africa as much as I don't care about deaths in America. If I knew the person, even then I have trouble caring. Death is the only fact of life. I would say taxes too, but you can cheat your taxes. You can't cheat death though. It comes for us all eventually.

[DBoons Ghost]

Checkit boiz: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=49f_1172526096&c=1

DBoon, that's just silly. I care that people die, but as it doesn't affect me, I'm not gonna shed a tear. It's humanity baby, it's what we do. Now when someone I know dies, that's a different matter.

:thumb:

[coheneran]

Lol, I knew the BBC has good weather forecasts, but not THAT good.

[Iskandar]

However, she was probably too vicious in her application of what was necessary.
What was necessary wasn't to bust the unions, it was to limit their power.
Directly democratic? Not really. Socialist, only sorta. They still use a lot of typically liberal-capitalist models.
I'm not claiming that's what the Scandanavian countries are. I'm extrapolating from them to arrive at that.

[spitfirejunky]

Now, I don't believe in conspiracy theories or anything, but...


Last night I was listening to the late night news on my radio and apparently there's a huge story about to come out on how an American and BBC news reporter reported that the WC building 7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it actually collapsed. Two news reporters in different countries reporting that the building collapsed well before it actually did? The person reporting the news last night said that after the American reporter realized that she was STILL STANDING IN FRONT of the WTC building 7 FULLY INTACT after she said it collapsed, she panicked and cut the live feed, and the lived feed only came back on 20 minute slater when building 7 finally collapsed. How they hell did they know?

I'm not saying this is true or anything, I'm just a messenger but it DOES sound really weird to me, and this is coming from me.

Could it have been a name confusion?

[Mr. Ron]

Could it have been a name confusion?

I don't think so. Watch the link coheneran posted.



I feel like I should be wearing tinfoil on my head right now but the evidence is very suspicious.... :(

[PerpetualBurn]

So what? It was being rumoured that that tower would collapse, and they ran the feed and made a blooper.

OR

Two run-of-the-mill news reporters were told about an inside job and the entire news network is a government conspiracy despite being made up of everyday people like you or me.

Pick one.

[DBoons Ghost]

Even I am suspicious of the eventual fate Tower 7 suffered to be totally honest. I don't care if they demo'd it. I don't care if it collapsed. Just tell us the truth.

I think it was a matter of city engineers knowing it was going to be blown and telling the press that, or a press agent overhearing that on a city engineer's radio and taking it to mean that they already blew it, as opposed to them saying they were going to blow it.

I think it's nothing more than that. If I'm wrong, well, what is to be wrong about? It was going to collapse. Of this there is no arguement. If they brought it down faster to help with the "rescue" efforts, what would be the harm in that?

[Mr. Ron]

Yeah i'm not really taking sides on this since we don't know enough but damn this situation is strange.

[PerpetualBurn]

I think it's easier to think it's a blooper than to think that two random news reporters are secret government agents along with the entire broadcasting network.

[Mr. Ron]

True. But idk lets see.

[PerpetualBurn]

See what? There's nothing to suggest any conspiracy or anything approaching it.

[DBoons Ghost]

I will have to check that link when I get home. I can't get to it from work and I am curious as to what this one says now.

Everyone I know on the scene that day told a different story, all with similar endings though. It was confusing as hell and it was total chaos.

[Mr. Ron]

See what? There's nothing to suggest any conspiracy or anything approaching it.

Maybe there will be more info on it later in the news that we don't know about yet. Most likely it will be explained very shortly. I don't think it's some shadow governemnt conspiracy, but it certainly is weird.

[Iskandar]

If by extrapolate you actually mean jump to something completely unsupported by your evidence, then yes.
It wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriously.

[griftadan]

dammit this is the community forum

[Mr. Ron]

Boobs.

[coheneran]

Lol, boobs are good, but balls are *drool*.

[Mr. Ron]

There's a gorgeous girl that comes into my work that literally has the most well proportioned, well rounded rack I have ever seen. It makes it hard to work around her. :[

[pedro durruti]

HAHA, I thought you said neck... That'd be weird, Mr. Ron.

[Der Übermensch]

Not if he's a vampire.

[Smokey D]

dammit this is the community forum

Good point.

[Knifeboy]

Even I am suspicious of the eventual fate Tower 7 suffered to be totally honest. I don't care if they demo'd it. I don't care if it collapsed. Just tell us the truth.

I think it was a matter of city engineers knowing it was going to be blown and telling the press that, or a press agent overhearing that on a city engineer's radio and taking it to mean that they already blew it, as opposed to them saying they were going to blow it.

I think it's nothing more than that. If I'm wrong, well, what is to be wrong about? It was going to collapse. Of this there is no arguement. If they brought it down faster to help with the "rescue" efforts, what would be the harm in that?

Maybe they blew it up, because the first tower collapsed and they thought... "oh shi, that'll just look sooo ridicoules with only one tower standing"

[coheneran]

Well, it makes more sense than a steel tower collapsing without a plane hittin' it.

New, more interesting subject please.

Is Smokey D straight?

[thedeadwalk!]

That's not interesting at all.

[Electronic Wolf]

I was on a tower once.

[Mr. Ron]

Thats amazing. Tell me more!

[pedro durruti]

God sucks at micro-management, I bet I could beat Him at Starcraft.

[Mr. Ron]

lol


I just downloaded the command and conqure 3 demo last night. It's really good.

[DBoons Ghost]

Well, it makes more sense than a steel tower collapsing without a plane hittin' it.

New, more interesting subject please.

Is Smokey D straight?

You really have to be the most ignorant armchair quarterback I've yet to encounter.

I suppose you know the WTC foundation in and out though, so it makes sense why the entire foundation would weaken when 2 of the biggest buildings in the world collapse..

Actually, I might be making too much sense here. Your way is much more fun.

[coheneran]

Like I said, I don't care too much who or what did and how many people died in 9/11. Or 7/7.

[Smokey D]

Is Smokey D straight?

Yes. Why?

Like I said, I don't care too much who or what did and how many people died in 9/11. Or 7/7.

Why not?

[coheneran]

I'll rephrase:

I care that they died as much as I care that Africans and Iraqis are dying. I probably won't shed a tear.

Actually, considering how many bastard dealers worked in WTC, I cade even less, and I'm happy that some of them are dead. The world doesn't need scum who deal in arms and oil.

[Smokey D]

Well, we definitely need oil traders.

[coheneran]

No, oil is one of the things the world doesn't need.

[Iskandar]

At the moment, we need oil.

[coheneran]

At the moment, capitalist society needs oil to keep on functioning like it is. The world as a whole, on the other hand, needs more oil like a man needs a strong kick in the groin. That is, not at all, it is very detrimental.

[Iskandar]

At the moment, capitalist society needs oil to keep on functioning like it is. The world as a whole, on the other hand, needs more oil like a man needs a strong kick in the groin. That is, not at all, it is very detrimental.
I was just going to say that we need oil because we haven't done a large-scale conversion to an alternate source of energy.

It's not just about capitalism. Any developed society would need it right now.

[Smokey D]

At the moment, capitalist society needs oil to keep on functioning like it is. The world as a whole, on the other hand, needs more oil like a man needs a strong kick in the groin. That is, not at all, it is very detrimental.

Damn anarcho primitivists.

[coheneran]

I'm not a primitivist, but honest to sweet Santa I'd prefer to live without oil, off the fatta the lan' (to quote George), and getting heat from burning turf that I would global warming. This planet isn't ours to destroy, yet we're like toddlers when it comes to looking after it.

[Smokey D]

Oil use, in itself, doesn't require the destruction of the planet.

I'm going to have to create another thread aren't I? I have to stop doing this to the community thread.

[coheneran]

Yeah, well oil use right now is destroying the planet, and it's because capitalism demands consumption of anything and everything.

I don't wanna go into it properly. Have you never had a freeform conversation? Topics come and go dude.

EDIT: Sigourney Weaver is totally hawt in Alien. I would hit it.

[Mr. Ron]

So who's excited for the Dark ages special on the history channel tomorrow! WOOO!!


/nerd

[Iskandar]

So who's excited for the Dark ages special on the history channel tomorrow! WOOO!!


/nerd
The History Channel's alright. I'll watch it on occasion.

[Mr. Ron]

Yeah, I was basically raised on it. That and the discovery channel. I guess thats why i'm a history major. :p

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

I'm not a primitivist, but honest to sweet Santa I'd prefer to live without oil, off the fatta the lan' (to quote George), and getting heat from burning turf that I would global warming. This planet isn't ours to destroy, yet we're like toddlers when it comes to looking after it.

Did you ever get to the end of that book? George is forced to give up on his dream because the world isn't nice like that, and also, do you think britain could seriously support 60 million people on the farms it has even without capitalism?

Cities are unsustainable without oil and the large populations of our nations are unsustainable without cities.

[ringworm]

So who's excited for the Dark ages special on the history channel tomorrow! WOOO!!
yeah, that looks pretty cool

Yeah, I was basically raised on it. That and the discovery channel.
same here


I saw one this past week about an ancient Myan culture that was really good and also there was one about a lost culture, highly advanced, on an island that was consumed or partially destroyed by a volcano. Both were good

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

http://www.bbspot.com/News/2007/03/boston-police-blow-up-suspicious-looking-man.html

pretty scathing.

[Mr. Ron]

omg

[Hababi]

:lol:

[Electronic Wolf]

hmm.

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

More anti-boston stuff:

http://flickr.com/photos/groovymother/sets/72157594564032667/

[thedeadwalk!]

"I'd blow up a hundred innocent people if I can prevent another 9/11."

That's right up there with Chief Wiggum's "I'd rather let a hundred criminals get away than chase them" line.

Oh, WTF Boston?

[Auberge le Mouton Noir]

they're all making fun of the boston police force calling in the bomb squad because of some guerilla advertising with some LEDs.

Coheneran, could you do me a favour sometime?



My friend and i mess around with making some experimental music sometimes of a GYBE vein, and sometimes put voice samples in it

sometime, could you make some recordings of you talking and send them to me? Telling the story of the time you got shot at by the IDF or threw the tanks at the rocks and stuff. Bear in mind it might get cut up a little (but probably won't; it's more interesting when it's left full) but i'm not gonna change it to make you sound bad. Basically people of 'strong and extreme political conviction' talking about their beliefs and telling stories works well with the music and i'd like to give it a shot

you might or might not hear what's done with it depending on if anything gets done with it so don't devote a long time or anything but it'd be cool so yeah

[Charlie Daniels]

F.T.A. is the proper abbreviation for the phrase "Failed To Achieve."

[coheneran]

FTAA is Failed To Achieve Anything then?

[Dr Hooch]

I love low postcounts.

[coheneran]

There's something wrong with you dude.

[badtaste]

Globalisation is coming.

[coheneran]

You're about 20 years late my friend.

[badtaste]

You're about 20 years late my friend.

haha... Doing 'Globalisation, the social and the identity' at uni right now. Very interesting stuff.

[coheneran]

Yes? Educate me.

[badtaste]

Yes? Educate me.

Uh... quite complicated. Basically, how society has changed over time due to events such as globalisation (and its links with industralisation). Focusing on the 'self' right now and how perceptions of the self have changed over time. For example, people have usually had controlled, predictable lives. These days, in zee post modern era, we have more control, we're 'de-essentialising', etc...

But yeah, too much to write here (that, and I can't remember ****). GO SOCIOLOGY!!!

[coheneran]

What does de-essentialising mean?

[badtaste]

What does de-essentialising mean?

In terms of essence (or the essence of a person), zee stereotypes of today are losing their character, or labels, etc... I guess it's like the debate of what the definition of 'man' or 'woman' is, as you can have sexual transformations and the such.

So in zee days of old, the self was most likely to be a member of a typical category. Yeh, I'm confused now. :confused: Nah, jk.,

[coheneran]

Ok, I can see that happening. Perhaps that is also why racism and other prejudices based on stereotypes are so opposed now; not because our society is more "moral" or liberal, but because these stereotypes have ceased to be accurate. Pre-globalisation, whole societies would be so separated from each other that their cultures would not mix and affect each other to any noticeable degree, and so stereotypes might be very accurate, whereas nowadays there's so much moving about and (I hate this word) "interbreeding" of races and thus cultures, that stereotypes (which can only apply to black and white situations) lose most of their accuracy in the rapidly "graying" world.

[badtaste]

Yeh, I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than what I was taught though. Lecturer just gave us the basics.

It's not just related to globalisation though. First started off with zee 'Age of Enlightenment', I guess, when people began to use their brains. But yeah, concerning image though, it's about perceptions, point of views, cultures, traditions, etc...

[PerpetualBurn]

Ok, I can see that happening. Perhaps that is also why racism and other prejudices based on stereotypes are so opposed now; not because our society is more "moral" or liberal, but because these stereotypes have ceased to be accurate. Pre-globalisation, whole societies would be so separated from each other that their cultures would not mix and affect each other to any noticeable degree, and so stereotypes might be very accurate, whereas nowadays there's so much moving about and (I hate this word) "interbreeding" of races and thus cultures, that stereotypes (which can only apply to black and white situations) lose most of their accuracy in the rapidly "graying" world.

I don't think the enslavement of black people was ever based on accurate stereotypes.

[coheneran]

Are you refering to "black and white situations"? I meant black and white as in clearly defined borders, not africans and europeans.

But yeah, obviously stereotypes weren't much of a factor of colonialism, they were a product.

[badtaste]

Yeh, look up some sociology. Very interesting stuff.

You people at uni/college? Tonnes of hot girls in my sociology class.

[PerpetualBurn]

No. I mean I don't think many stereotypes were ever very accurate. They may have been a product of social boundaries, but I don't think many were ever accurate generalisations.

[badtaste]

No. I mean I don't think many stereotypes were ever very accurate. They may have been a product of social boundaries, but I don't think many were ever accurate generalisations.

Yeh, basically. Stereotypes wasn't the right word.

[coheneran]

But if our behaviour relies heavily on our society and culture, and since societies (and therefore their cultures) were almost completely alienated from each other, the individuals of those societies' behaviour in certain situations would be more predictable depending on the historical behaviour of individuals in the self-same society/culture (whereas now cultures are so mixed that probable reactions are harder to predict), y'dig?

I'm gonna go make vegan brownies for my friends now, see ya'll later.

[PerpetualBurn]

No, if you're alienated from another culture then it's easier to form a level of suspicion or distaste that leads to the creation of stereotyping (positive or negative, I suppose). However that stereotype will still likely stem from ignorance as oppose to an accurate assessment of the culture.

[badtaste]

I didn't mention this before, but I had in mind the point-of-view of the viewer. For example, consider the question, what is an 'ethnic'? In a place like Australia, an 'ethnic' would generally be considered to be an Asian, or an African, or a Mexican, whilst Australian Caucasians (even some Europeans) would not be labeled as an 'ethnic'?

Why is this so? I'm guessing because Australia is predominantly a white Anglo-Saxon population. This is despite 'ethnicity' meaning the 'ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association' of a person. Also, if we want to look back through time, Australia have always had this almost xenophobic approach to immigration (with their White policies and all).

Even our definitions of the term 'ethnic' is a bit skewed, if we consider people of different races to the major one to be ethnic.

[coheneran]

Because white people are devils, it's true.

I've been reassured by people that if I ever go to America I won't be considered white or anglo-saxon, which is a blessing because I can call people whities without feeling stupid.

[ringworm]

lol, what ethnicity are u C?



and eww, at least make some real brownies

[coheneran]

Not Anglo-Saxon, which is what counts.

[ringworm]

it sure does seem that way these days

its gettin hard to be whitey, we get assualted from every angle no matter what our background is

but what are you? ignore if thats to intrusive

[coheneran]

I'm a post-Jewish Semitic Arab.

Haha.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm German, Irish, and a little Russian. Yup, I'm pretty white.

[PerpetualBurn]

Is Yorkshire an ethnicity yet?

[coheneran]

Only if you can repeat the following without wanting to laugh:

"Yorkshire born, Yorkshire bred,
Strong in arm, thick in head."

[lunchforthesky]

My family on both sides is from Yorkshire for at least 7 generations :p

[pedro durruti]

Yo Smokey D, you smoke bud?

[Mr. Ron]

I bet he sets forest fires.

[coheneran]

Oh man, that crap Bush talked about the California forest fires (I think it was Cali anyway) being set by "eco-terrorists" was such bollocks. Surely even the White House knows that forest fires are a natural and important occurence, even without having human beings involved.

You know who the real eco-terrorists are.

[Mr. Ron]

There have been forest fires set by eco-terrorists though.

[pedro durruti]

What? Setting forests on fire is directly opposite of what eco-terrorists stand for.

[Dr Hooch]

Oh man, that crap Bush talked about the California forest fires (I think it was Cali anyway) being set by "eco-terrorists" was such bollocks. Surely even the White House knows that forest fires are a natural and important occurence, even without having human beings involved.

You know who the real eco-terrorists are.

is it....



CAPITALISTS?


"It's a special kind of evil!"

[coheneran]

is it....



CAPITALISTS?


"It's a special kind of evil!"

You're good at guessin'!

[badtaste]

Soo....

Was watching a doco called 'Jihad TV'. Man, those kids living in wartorn countries in the Middle East are fvcked up badly. I can't remember which country this one television show was from (I'm guessing it was Palestinian based), but those kids were wishing the Israeli kids to die, so 'that they would feel what the [Palestinian children] were feeling'. I believe it was in response to images of Israeli children writing nasty messages on army missiles (presumably being used against Palestines).

Discuss children being raised in a shitty environment.

[Charlie Daniels]

When I lived (extremely briefly I might add) with one of my ex's they had a 3 bedroom house but there were 10 (11 if you count me) people living in it at the time. There was like 1 old women, 4 young men, 2 teen girls and 3 little girls. The young men every night were doing drugs and smoking cigs and drinking themselves violently drunk and stuff... pretty damn horrible place for the little ones to grow up.

That's the reality of how a substanitial percent of how aboriginal australians live in predominantly white communites of Australia. However, in the more remote areas the situations are even worse and there are fewer facilities to even keep these dysfunctional families going.

As I am of aborignal descent myself this is a controversial thing to say, but I would support the liquidation of the rural aborinal communities and forcifully integrating these people into white communities. I really think the aboriginals who run "aboriginal affairs" are out of touch with the reality of the situation.

[coheneran]

Soo....

Was watching a doco called 'Jihad TV'. Man, those kids living in wartorn countries in the Middle East are fvcked up badly. I can't remember which country this one television show was from (I'm guessing it was Palestinian based), but those kids were wishing the Israeli kids to die, so 'that they would feel what the [Palestinian children] were feeling'. I believe it was in response to images of Israeli children writing nasty messages on army missiles (presumably being used against Palestines).

Discuss children being raised in a shitty environment.

Yeah, those were bombs destined for Lebanon. They had writing on there like "I've been waiting a long time for this Nasrallah, love, Shoshna" and stupid crap like that.

Growing up in Israel there's a lot of peer pressure to hate Arabs. From the particular version of events that they teach in class, and the one-sidedness of the news, but mostly from people around you. My family left Israel because my parents were bullied at work for having Arabic friends.

[badtaste]

When I lived (extremely briefly I might add) with one of my ex's they had a 3 bedroom house but there were 10 (11 if you count me) people living in it at the time. There was like 1 old women, 4 young men, 2 teen girls and 3 little girls. The young men every night were doing drugs and smoking cigs and drinking themselves violently drunk and stuff... pretty damn horrible place for the little ones to grow up.

That's the reality of how a substanitial percent of how aboriginal australians live in predominantly white communites of Australia. However, in the more remote areas the situations are even worse and there are fewer facilities to even keep these dysfunctional families going.

As I am of aborignal descent myself this is a controversial thing to say, but I would support the liquidation of the rural aborinal communities and forcifully integrating these people into white communities. I really think the aboriginals who run "aboriginal affairs" are out of touch with the reality of the situation.

Hmm, didn't know you were of Aboriginal desecent. No problem though. Yeah, the whole issue about Aborigines is a bit confusing for me. I used to know of an Aborigine family that were as fine as anything. But then you have other family units that are in shambles due to alcoholism, unemployment, etc... Yeh, basically it takes balls to break out of the cycle of a bad influence through bad parenting. I'm guessing education is key here, but I'm also guessing that it's been tried before.

About your suggestion, the whole point of not integrating them into the general community is because that was attempted back in the day with really crappy results. Already, the 'white' influence has sorta screwed the Aborigine masses. Incentive today would be to try retain traditions and culture and language, while coexisting with the multicultural blob that we are today.
Yeah, those were bombs destined for Lebanon. They had writing on there like "I've been waiting a long time for this Nasrallah, love, Shoshna" and stupid crap like that.

Growing up in Israel there's a lot of peer pressure to hate Arabs. From the particular version of events that they teach in class, and the one-sidedness of the news, but mostly from people around you. My family left Israel because my parents were bullied at work for having Arabic friends.

I don't think it's peer pressure. I think it's just a way of life. For example, people lose loved ones because of a T attack. They're going to tell their children to despise those Ts and vice versa (except it's probably a military attack or something). It's just a terrible cycle of hate going round and round and round.

[coheneran]

I don't think it's peer pressure. I think it's just a way of life. For example, people lose loved ones because of a T attack. They're going to tell their children to despise those Ts and vice versa (except it's probably a military attack or something). It's just a terrible cycle of hate going round and round and round.

Yes, and you're taught to hate, mostly from peer pressure. Peer pressure and learning by listening/watching are two things that, I think, influence a child's social behaviour and personal development more than anything else.

[PerpetualBurn]

Peer pressure would be kids teaching other kids to hate, I think it's far more likely that the pressure to hate stems from the parents.

[Charlie Daniels]

About your suggestion, the whole point of not integrating them into the general community is because that was attempted back in the day with really crappy results. Already, the 'white' influence has sorta screwed the Aborigine masses. Incentive today would be to try retain traditions and culture and language, while coexisting with the multicultural blob that we are today.
I strongly disagree with those saying that "white influence has screwed the aborigines." It's a lie made by aboriginal activists that are either ignorant to reality and/or nutjobs. There is no end to infrastructure and support services availible to aboriginals wanting to "break the cycle". The trouble is the younger generation grow up with little 'white' influence and do not see what life can be like.

Major point:

The 'stolen generation' went through physical and emotional trauma, but look at where these people stand today. Most of them hold jobs, have functional families and have avoided many of the problems faced by those who were raised by aboriginals during the same time. The stolen generations children are growing up educated, in stable homes and have prospects of a good future. Can the same be said for those little girls who are being raised in the house I talked about above?

Ofcourse, not all the stolen generation grew up to a decent life, but ultimately those who were "stolen" had a better quality of life than those who weren't. Even more importantly and markedly, the children of those who were stolen have a much greater future the the children of those who weren't.

[Charlie Daniels]

Although what they are saying is negative, the mere fact that they have a voice and have learnt how to operate in the Australian society means they have achieved a great.

[ringworm]

anybody see the historical view about the Spartans vs Persians on the History Channel last night?

some of the facts regarding the age at which training to become a solider started was amazing

[Mr. Ron]

Ahhhh no way I missed that. The spartans were insanely good at what they did.

[ringworm]

The physical condition those soldiers must have been in was simply stunning

[gregulus]

anybody see the historical view about the Spartans vs Persians on the History Channel last night?

some of the facts regarding the age at which training to become a solider started was amazing

I happened to catch it. It was really interesting, actually. I actually found the strategic aspect of the battle to be equally as interesting as the part about their military training and how badass they all were, even the women. They were like Terminator, except older and human.

Really though, it must have been intimidating for both sides during the battle. The Persain masked heavy infantry who walked into battle silent had to be at least slightly intimidating to the Spartans and the Spartans being the most well trained fighting force possibly ever had to make the Persians crap their pants.