This is odd...

[DillingerEscp]

Okay, so I was practicing on my pad today, with my metronome as usual... I started off at 180 bpm doing sixteenths.. blah blah blah. I got up to 260 bpm and was doing sixteenths there, although I can only hold it that fast for about 10 sec... Im working on it..

but anyway... I cut the time in half, down to 130, and did 32nd notes (the exact same speed as sixteenths at 260 bpm, except that the click was 1/2 as fast... and there were 8 strokes inbetween each click) but anyway... I found that I can keep it at the same tempo for up to 20 seconds, and when I pass the 10 second mark, I dont even feel phased... Is this the same for anyone ? Slowing down the click, but keeping the same speed, for some reason is "easier" than having the click faster, and at the same speed... obviously, Im thinking its just a mental thing.

[metallas]

I feel that with double bass work out.Believe it or not I can play 64th's on my bass drum at tempo quarter equalls 60.When I get it on 32nd's at tempo 120 I lose control very quickly

[raz0r]

It's probably something to do with your hands wanting to accent the note on the click, slowing you down.

Less accents = more straight roll.

[weed_makes_me_faster]

sp00kyyy!

[BrekelmansInAbsentia]

o man, i cant help but accent on my rolls, every time, its like, RlrlRlrlRlrlRlrl, im trying to get smoother though, but if i dont accent i lose time.

[Josiah]

^ Then slow it down and see the below.


Okay, so I was practicing on my pad today, with my metronome as usual... I started off at 180 bpm doing sixteenths.. blah blah blah. I got up to 260 bpm and was doing sixteenths there, although I can only hold it that fast for about 10 sec... Im working on it..

but anyway... I cut the time in half, down to 130, and did 32nd notes (the exact same speed as sixteenths at 260 bpm, except that the click was 1/2 as fast... and there were 8 strokes inbetween each click) but anyway... I found that I can keep it at the same tempo for up to 20 seconds, and when I pass the 10 second mark, I dont even feel phased... Is this the same for anyone ? Slowing down the click, but keeping the same speed, for some reason is "easier" than having the click faster, and at the same speed... obviously, Im thinking its just a mental thing.


It's hard to say the practice method you describe is absolute rubbish.

Even if you WERE playign 32nds at 130, there's no way they are anything worth talking about. And if you can only hold them for 20 seconds.. that means you are tensing up and playing WAY to fast for your own good.

Wich basically it boils down too, you aren't playing 32nds at 130 because.. well you aren't. Playing notes means playing them, not squeezing them out.

You can "play" a given note value at a given tempo when it's in the multiple minute range and those notes can be played at a full dynamic range.


Check out the singles excercise on my site ( www.josiahmicheletti.com ) and start that at about 45 bpm.
Go up and down that that excerise for maybe 5 mins. A day at varying tempos. Though you shouldn't be hittign any tempo above 80 bpm for at least a month.. at least.

Also purchase Stick Control and work through that at slow-moderate tempos.

[DillingerEscp]

It's probably something to do with your hands wanting to accent the note on the click, slowing you down.

Less accents = more straight roll.

you're probably right, now that I think about it. Because that is true... When I hear the click, I automatically want to accent it there.
so yeah, Ill take of that crap.

[DillingerEscp]

^ Then slow it down and see the below.





It's hard to say the practice method you describe is absolute rubbish.

Even if you WERE playign 32nds at 130, there's no way they are anything worth talking about. And if you can only hold them for 20 seconds.. that means you are tensing up and playing WAY to fast for your own good.

Wich basically it boils down too, you aren't playing 32nds at 130 because.. well you aren't. Playing notes means playing them, not squeezing them out.

You can "play" a given note value at a given tempo when it's in the multiple minute range and those notes can be played at a full dynamic range.


Check out the singles excercise on my site ( www.josiahmicheletti.com ) and start that at about 45 bpm.
Go up and down that that excerise for maybe 5 mins. A day at varying tempos. Though you shouldn't be hittign any tempo above 80 bpm for at least a month.. at least.

Also purchase Stick Control and work through that at slow-moderate tempos.


Yeah, you're right, I can go about 17 sec. without tensing up, then after 3 sec of forced out notes, it falls apart. But yeah... I dont want anyone getting the impression I sit here for hours and just play at 260. The vast majority of my practicing varies in range from 80 - 230. slower tempos for rudiments, getting things clean... well, you know the drill.

But I cant see your site josiah :( ... Dont worry though, it most likely has nothing to do with you, it all has to do with my Colleges server, it blocks very few sites for some unknown reason (gay firewall I guess.)
But Im out of here this wed. so Ill check it out then.

and yeah, Ill be getting stick control back soon. My mother is bringing it out here from Indiana, cause I told her to bring my obnoxious library of drumming stuff.

And I dont really agree with the whole "if you're squeezing notes out, you're not 'playing' them" notion... If thats the stuff you always heard when being taught drums, thats all good for you... Nevertheless, I would never be proud of being able to go 260 for 20 sec. then having it all fall apart... But I dont believe thats any reason to say that you can't play it.

[moogoogaipan]

And I dont really agree with the whole "if you're squeezing notes out, you're not 'playing' them" notion... If thats the stuff you always heard when being taught drums, thats all good for you... Nevertheless, I would never be proud of being able to go 260 for 20 sec. then having it all fall apart... But I dont believe thats any reason to say that you can't play it.
I disagree. An anology that I like to use is driving around a corner in the rain.
You can do it, but the faster you do it, the more likely you are to lose control and wreck.

Its the same principle. You're gonna play it fast, but the faster you play it and the tenser you become, the worse you are gonna wreck. If you've never noticed, especially at those speeds, one screw up is gonna kill time for everyone, and then you're not doing your job.

[Josiah]

Exactly.

Not to mention the health issues related to tense drumming. Dillinger, the moment you start tensing is the moment you start putting your tendons and joints at risk.
Have you fingers, elbows or wrists ever been sore or felt funny?

Not the muslces, but the joints that is.

If so this is the early warning signs to stop tensing while you. For your own health and so you may contiune playing for ever.

[DillingerEscp]

I disagree. An anology that I like to use is driving around a corner in the rain.
You can do it, but the faster you do it, the more likely you are to lose control and wreck.

Its the same principle. You're gonna play it fast, but the faster you play it and the tenser you become, the worse you are gonna wreck. If you've never noticed, especially at those speeds, one screw up is gonna kill time for everyone, and then you're not doing your job.

except you die in your first example

and usually, one screw up kills time for everyone regardless of the tempo. I mean, I have made mistakes on stage (rarity though ;) )at slow and fast tempos, but (when I was in a band) we always recovered the measure thereafter. But generally speaking, getting off time or missing a note at any speed can wreak havoc upon your performance.

I can see where you guys are coming from though, I understand what you mean. I just don't agree.

[DillingerEscp]

Exactly.

Not to mention the health issues related to tense drumming. Dillinger, the moment you start tensing is the moment you start putting your tendons and joints at risk.
Have you fingers, elbows or wrists ever been sore or felt funny?

Not the muslces, but the joints that is.

If so this is the early warning signs to stop tensing while you. For your own health and so you may contiune playing for ever.
Honestly, I dont have any pain in my joints or anything. But I know where youre coming from. I agree whole heartedly that tense drumming is not good. Thats exactly why I rarelly go up to 250/260 speeds, because Im just not at the level where I can play for a minute straight tense free.

and when I say rarely. OH I mean rarely.

[Josiah]

Well that's ok. it's good to push things in a controlled manor so long as it is just that.


Another issue to keep in mine is it's pretty pointless to use a metronome beyond 200bpm as the abbility to acruately hear the click and where your own notes are falling is greatly diminished.

Just half the click and double the values, it will make a world of difference in how you keep time and are able to work with the click.

[Caleb_Pickering]

youre prolly like me, i dont like fast clicking, it gets me off beat sometimes. but if i think 8th notes then i can do pretty much any speed.

[not fishbulb]

Even if you WERE playign 32nds at 130, there's no way they are anything worth talking about. And if you can only hold them for 20 seconds.. that means you are tensing up and playing WAY to fast for your own good.

It's like playing 32nd notes at infinite tempo, you can do it, but with only two notes.

[Ellx]

^ nope, at infinite tempo, lets take 20 billion the clicks would just blurr into one, and I would be willing to bet it blows up (thus they set a limit around 300 :)).

Yea but besides that, I agree with you.

[DillingerEscp]

UMM Yeah. LoLzOrrrr

But yeah, I dont think Im ever going to go up to 200 bpm again... Ill set it at 100 and do 32nds, because I did find that its really easier to keep it up.

[isp_of_doom]

Ellx my metronome actually has an infinite bpm setting, its called a tone.

Josiah - interesting about the joint pain being an early warning. I've experienced slight joint pain now and then (mostly wrists), and I haven't completely ignored it - I haven't known for sure what it means. Afterwards I'd normally play a bit with wrist support and it goes away.

[Josiah]

What do you mean by wrist support?

[shaqadelic]

Another issue to keep in mine is it's pretty pointless to use a metronome beyond 200bpm as the abbility to acruately hear the click and where your own notes are falling is greatly diminished.


This answers your original question. When the clicks are much more clearer, you play with more control and awareness, thus your efficiency will remain the same. That explains why you could go longer.

[Drum Monkey]

and usually, one screw up kills time for everyone regardless of the tempo.
Where do you get this from? When we play if I'll screw up, the guitarists will usually continue the song and I'll come back in a.s.a.p. It shouldn't always be throwing everyone off.

-DM

[isp_of_doom]

wrist support as in thick wrist bands, I've seen Portnoy using them, and I believe Josh Freese as well.