how do you come up with melodies

[ownyouall]

im havin trouble comin up with melodies...
i kno howto read music and write music but i dont kno how to come up with the sound you kno...like do re mi fa so la ti do...
whether to go high or low.
i dont have any instruments, my friend says i need to get a keyboard or something.
what do you guys think?
is it possible to come up with melodies without an instrument?
helpme out here plz

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Yes it is. More advanced theory exams require you to write a melody using nothing but your brain and a few rules, and some even require you to set music to a verse!

The rules are generally pretty simple. Use steps predominantly, leaps are okay, though.. avoid jagged leaps higher than a minor sixth and make sure the melody doesn't exceed the range of about a tenth. Towards the middle or end of the melody try to build up to a climax point and then resolve. Be sure to make the ending powerful by imitating the soprano line of a perfect cadence (optional). Um, there are others.. but that should help.

EDIT: Also, avoid an excess of broken chords.

[ownyouall]

ok its like this, im sittin there in my room, with nothing but a piece of paper and a pencil...and im tryin to hum it out...and it sounds like ****. and then i try to write it down in like do re re do ti ti ...etc
then the next day i wake up....i tried to read it or sing it out and it sounds different from wut i hummed out last night...

do i need an instrument???

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

No, you can write a melody using a pen and paper.

This is how I would generally do it (providing I wasn't given a rhythm):

-Tap out a rhythm I like and write it above the staff
-Pick a key signature (I'll use C major in this example)
-Write the first note as a C (unless you're using an anacrusis which for me would be E or G (or sometimes D)
-Write the last note as a C (or an E if you're writing a melody over chords)
-Using notes in the C major scale, form a melody that works in steps and small leaps (maybe C, C, D, E, E, F, G, F, E~ etc) and have a climax point
-At the end work out a nice resolution that defines the tonic (by using non-harmonic tones such as passing tones, neighbouring tones, anticipations [if the mood permits] or a changing tone [one of my favs])

You're lucky I'm in such a good mood because I just wrote a melody for you quickly to demonstrate these rules in practice. For the theory buffs here there are probably a few mistakes but I'm very tired! So please excuse them.

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1IT37KK7KZYDW34LPPVBUL3O2D

Enjoy.

[ownyouall]

hmm mayb i dont really kno how to read music since after i write out the notes on the staff...i hav no idea how to sing them out...

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

You don't need to be able to sing them out.

What are you trying to accomplish by writing these melodies, may I ask?

[ownyouall]

ok im tryin to write songs...
i have written alot of lyrics but have no tune to it...no MELODY to it...
so yea tryin to write songs....
right now im not sure bout my musical reading/writing abilities since i dont know how to write down the sounds that i make up...
for example, i hum out a tune or melody w/e
and i write it down as like do do do re mi fa fa so la la ti do... w/e
then the next day i loook at it again and try to sing it and it sounds completely different.

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Oh right... you're asking a different question than I thought.

You're going to need a keyboard, although you could get by using a MIDI program like Guitar Pro, PowerTabs or Sybellius.

I'm tired, so do you have any other questions before I go to bed?

[ownyouall]

yes im tryin to ask how to put the melodie that you come up with down on paper so i can remmeber how to sing it exactly how it is when i first came up with it.
and another question, do u liv in like europe or somethin...its 10 am...

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

To put a melody on paper that you sing you need to develop your relative pitch. Use sites like good-ear and musictheory.net's interval and scale ear trainers for that.

As my location suggests I live in Australia, where it is 1:18AM.

[ownyouall]

what do these trainers do?
and i bought all these books on how to read and write music.
i memorized all the scales, major, minor, harmonic..all the modes..etc
and the problem is, for example when i listen to a song ..um Beautiful Day - U2
and when i hear it, i can hum out the melodie... but when i try to put it down on paper...i dont know what to write down..
cuz the chorus is like
Its A Beau-ti-ful Dayyyyyy
Dont Let It Get A-Wayyy
Beau-Ti-Fulll Dayyyyy

and i tried to write down like
ti fa do re so reeeee
or somethin like that...
see what im getting at?
i have no idea what the hell to write down.

[ownyouall]

somebody help me out here plz

[Holy Diver]

I always come up with my best melodies while I'm just improving on my guitar/keyboard. If you have a melody in your head, the easiest way (for me) to work with it is by learning how to play it on your instrument, then writing the notes/chords down either on paper or a program like guitar pro.

Edit: So if I were you, I'd get a keyboard. :P

[Seafroggys]

i originally came up with melodies by sitting on a piano (actually it was an onscreen piano, as i was writing midi music) and just write it out as I went, and what sounded good. Of course, this was after almost 7 years of piano playing and intense listening to the masters of melody (aka The Beatles)

[telemore]

I come up with mine by just jamming on guitar or piano. I'm not very good at either, and tend to play slow repetitive stuff, and fluid melodies kind of i dunno, come out.

Playing horn for six or seven years helps with that, but I think that no formal training would be necessary.

Just grab an instrument, and play around with it, until you find something that suites you

[ownyouall]

so most singers/song writers at least know how to play an instrument?
thats how they come up with melodies?

[telemore]

I'd imagine, sure.

Or have studied vocal stuff, and have a good sense of relative pitch.

[sonicst0rm]

Pick a scale and base the notes off of that. Just experiment until you find something catchy or whatever. Sometimes they can happen by an accident, but you dhould follow patterns. Maybe one melody leads into another. Most are about 2-4 bars long and end on the note they started on. If they end on a different note in the scale it usually sets up unresolved tension which you resolve later

then you can go ahead and make a chord progression that fits it.

[ownyouall]

i think the problem i have is....i have absolutely no ****ing idea wtf it is to write down...
for example, i look at a song, with the notes on scales and everything, and i have no idea how to sing it...

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

what do these trainers do?
and i bought all these books on how to read and write music.
i memorized all the scales, major, minor, harmonic..all the modes..etc
and the problem is, for example when i listen to a song ..um Beautiful Day - U2
and when i hear it, i can hum out the melodie... but when i try to put it down on paper...i dont know what to write down..
cuz the chorus is like
Its A Beau-ti-ful Dayyyyyy
Dont Let It Get A-Wayyy
Beau-Ti-Fulll Dayyyyy

and i tried to write down like
ti fa do re so reeeee
or somethin like that...
see what im getting at?
i have no idea what the hell to write down.
You're being a bit ambitious expecting to just be able to know the notes that he's singing.

so most singers/song writers at least know how to play an instrument?
thats how they come up with melodies?
Well a lot of singers have their melodies written for them, either that or they write them to an instrument, or they just sing and remember them.

[ownyouall]

so frontmans in bands have people write songs for them?

[Diatonic Dissonance™]

Well, it depends what type of band.

Bands like Metallica just sing from memory what they think sounds good.
Bands like Dream Theater write vocal melodies with the use of an instrumen.
"Bands" like Britney Spears (and maybe U2?!) have people that have studied music write their songs for them, and then they just "sell them".

EDIT: I shouldn't have to say it, but what I said is generally speaking.

[darrell]

A lot of people just sing and have a sense of what sounds good and what doesn't... It's not necessary to write down the melody you are singing unless you are planning on selling sheet music or making a MIDI file, IMO. Unless you are planning on giving it to a studio musician to play around with...

Really though... just listen to songs and sing over them. I believe it just becomes second nature after a while. Only with very weird chord progression does it really become difficult.

[zyxon]

If you've written lyrics, you should be able to atleast get a rhythm just by 'singing' them over your backing music (assuming you have some). To get the melody, just keep singing over an over, expermenting (ie going up in pitch for one particular syllable, or going down for that one) until you get a melody that sounds good to your ears.

And Darrel, that's not an eighth note. It's a quaver. Idiot.

[ownyouall]

wel i hav ****loads of lyrics written...and um lets say i do get a melody goin which i usually do, the problem comes when i dont kno what the hell to write down on the staffs or w/e. and if i did write down like notes and A, B , C, D , E , F G, ..etc..i dont kno kno how to read it and sing it properly when i look at it next day

[zyxon]

Maybe you should consider recording it? Even if you learn to write staff music, transcribing music takes awhile to get good at.

[ownyouall]

so wut ur suggesting is....if i make up a melodie in my mind and try to sing out...i shud quickly record it on like audacity or somethin?
and then later the guitarist wud try to make a song to it or somethin?

[zyxon]

Yeah, that seems like it would work for you. When I write guitar riffs, I record each one when I come up with it, then every once in a while I go back and listen to them to see what sounds good/bad. You could record all your vocal melodies, and sort through them to find the best ones, and work songs out of them with your guitarist/whomever else.

[ownyouall]

Yeah, that seems like it would work for you. When I write guitar riffs, I record each one when I come up with it, then every once in a while I go back and listen to them to see what sounds good/bad. You could record all your vocal melodies, and sort through them to find the best ones, and work songs out of them with your guitarist/whomever else.

yea well....u kno how bad it sounds when ur recording on audacity with a microphone and no music in the background...
but w/e.

[ownyouall]

ok i need advice from frontmans in real bands....how do u come up with melodies for songs and how to u put it on paper? or record it or w/e
and another question...do u come up with the melodie first or make the lyrics first?

right now, i hav no melodies so i just hav a notebook and i write lyrics everynight...jus no melodies with it.

[Popup-Box]

I'm not experienced on lyrics at this point, but I have written 100s of melodies.

There is one method to use if you want to 'test'; a method which will sound musical - no matter what.

If you have a chord progression, you play the chord tones of each chord. For instance, if the chords are Am - G - F, then you play A-C-E over Am, G-B-D over G, and finally F-A-C over F. It will sound musical, but if you do this for every melody of each song - it will sound very... static, or boring. So, you might want to include other notes from the same scale. Use chord tones, that's a safe
method, but don't use it exclusively.

Now, with this information; have a go on a few melodies, and experiment - don't forget to use your ear to decide what sounds good, even though you know some theoretical methods.

EDIT: I just thought that you would gain a lot if you downloaded one or several of the free composing applications that are available on the net. Check out http://www.sonicspot.com/modplugtracker/modplugtracker.html (Modplug Tracker) or http://www.madtracker.org/download.php to see if it looks interesting.

No matter what you think after browsing through the page; the applications are very very handy. I used them before I knew how to play any instrument. You will be able to load instrument sounds and write your own chords and melodies. This way, you'll see how it works, without even needed an own physical instrument.

Do it, I'm almost commanding you - your merit will be unlimited, really.
At least from an understanding point-of-view.

[ownyouall]

yea i dont play any instruments so i dont kno what the notes sound like....
if u jus give me a song written on paper on a staff....i dont kno how to sing it.

[Popup-Box]

Check my edit.

[ownyouall]

alright ill check it out thanks

[Popup-Box]

Make sure you do so. You might want to check out the help file of the given application if you don't succeed by experimenting.

If you come up with a concrete question about one of the programs, just post it
here.

[ownyouall]

another question....for all the frontmans out there thats in a band, when u write songs, do u write out the lyrics first? or make up a melodie and then make up lyrics to fit in with it?
cuz right now since i dont know how to put melodies down on paper, i just write lyrics.

[Popup-Box]

I'm no frontman, but I know how to compose a thing or two. I don't think it's important whether you write the lyrics or music first.

It may be a subjective matter, but on a general level, I think it's easier to come up with a well working melody, than magnificent lyrics. So, as you're writing lyrics already, but no melodies, I think you're on the right track.

I, for that matter, seldom write lyrics, but that's because I find it very interesting to explore the different melodic possibillities. More so than writing lyrics, as I've got no 'messages' at this time.

Bottom line; it shouldn't matter what comes first.

[ownyouall]

wel u see, i dont play any instruments or hav any instrument, there for i hav nothing to make any sounds to make a melody from, all i can do is just try to hum it out and it sounds like **** and very hard.

[Popup-Box]

www.modplug.com

www.madtracker.org

Sounds!

[ownyouall]

hmm i need to take some classes that jus teach how to write notes

[711]

Just play around for a while... They will come to you.

[ownyouall]

but the thing is i have no instruments, theres no way for me to make up melodies...what the hell am i gonna hum it out, its gonna sound like **** then leave a bad impression in my bad and then im not gonna want to use it later on (not that i even know how to put the melody down on paper)