Direct In? GOOD or BAD

[zfmt]

Okay, so I was hardcore into recording this summer and I thought I knew for sure that DI recording for rythem and lead guitar was a no no, unless you have a direct in box... for money money than its worth. Well, my band wanted to record a song and they were hardcore for direct in. I thought it wasnt going to turn out very well so i said "I dont think it will turn out very well." anyways they didnt believe me. they recorded direct in. then complained that "it sounds very flat, whats the problem" I said "im not sure but i think its because we went DI" they snapped and said "you have been spouting off for the past 2 weeks and you dont know anything your full off **** all the time" please, if im wrong let me know. if im right please back me up.

thanks
zak

[mrcarter]

What do you mean exactly by direct in? Amp output to input on computer? Or a small active preamp? Or what?

[super_kick08]

Direct in, well is just another tool you can use. Yes it does make guitars sound flat and if you have a bad guitar amp, it will usually surpass that. The only reason i'd direct in a guitar is if i were going to reamp it. Meaning. Guitar>Interface>Computer>Amp>Interface>Computer. Just to figure out a nice tone. Direct in has ups and downs. But for bass guitar, it can sound really good. It's all i use for bass. Also if your acoustic guitar has a output that can be used for different sounds.

Hope i helped

[Aus_rock_god]

Youch. Amp DI sucks ***. I'd only DI a guitar if the guitarist had a cab simulator like a Korg15005, V-amp, Boss GT6 or somthing like that.
Most of your guitar tone comes from the speaker in the amp.
Bass Amp DI is okay, because the speakers on bass amps are designed to preserve the tone of the bass. DI ing a guitar amp sucks, because the frequency responce on guitar speakers are more or less designed not to be flat at all, and actually destory the tone of your guitar, which is what makes it sound good, if that makes any sence.
More or less, if your an axe man and you don't have a cab simulator, use a microphone.

[Aes820]

It's okay to DI bass. Because it's really quite tricky to get a nice miced up bass sound without spending hundreds on good quality gear.

But definately mic up the guitars.

[Paranoidd]

DI'ing bass is incredibly common (pretty much the standard), for reasons already mentioned.

For guitars, I would never record just a DI channel, that's ridiculous, and you should tell your band to stop spouting off so much BS. It's not hard to invest a couple of hundred bucks in an SM57 and mic your amp, if you're that into recording.

That being said, it's often a very good idea to send a clean channel to a DI box while recording your miked amp. It proves invaluable sometimes to have that backup. If your unhappy with the tone or another aspect of the sound, but content with the playing, you always have that clean channel to fall back on, and re-amp it using a reamping box or other gear (guitar rig does this very well).

Even still, I would never record just a DI'd sound, even into a quality DI box. A properly miked amp will sound better almost every time.

[Kalvarium]

I dont know if I'm undestanding much.


To DI a Bass is it possible to go from the Amp Output into the Input of the mixer?

(the mixer will be inputed to the computer)

Does that make sense or am I just **** talking?

[EinzingerIsGod]

For guitars, I would never record just a DI channel, that's ridiculous, and you should tell your band to stop spouting off so much BS. It's not hard to invest a couple of hundred bucks in an SM57 and mic your amp, if you're that into recording.

I agree completely with this. SM57's don't even cost that much (my band picked up ours for $80 new I think), which is all the more reason to get one. They also work great for recording snare drum. SM57's are a must.

[Vitriolic Rage]

Guitars direct input, no no
Bass direct input yes, sounds quite good.

Unless you have something like a PODXT, don't do direct in.
Then again, saying that, on The Berzerker's "World of Lies" album they just did a line in job with a guitar and a Marshall JMP, and it sounds good.

[zfmt]

i brought an sm57 to their house to record the guitars with they didnt want to, they thought that di was better. oh ya, and i mean direct in like guitar into a pedal then right into the computer. because the guy was such a dick i just wanna rub the fact he was wrong in his face. can you guys back me up with that?

[everlonggg]

Okay, so I was hardcore into recording this summer and I thought I knew for sure that DI recording for rythem and lead guitar was a no no, unless you have a direct in box... for money money than its worth. Well, my band wanted to record a song and they were hardcore for direct in. I thought it wasnt going to turn out very well so i said "I dont think it will turn out very well." anyways they didnt believe me. they recorded direct in. then complained that "it sounds very flat, whats the problem" I said "im not sure but i think its because we went DI" they snapped and said "you have been spouting off for the past 2 weeks and you dont know anything your full off **** all the time" please, if im wrong let me know. if im right please back me up.

thanks
zak

awww zakky how sweet. i haven't said anyhting to you about the guitars as of yet, so i don't know where you'd get this accusation. in all honesty, the guitars sound BEAUTIFUL. i was working on them last night, as i told you in the email. Why didn't we mic the amps? Because the amps we have are like 20 dollar amps that suck hardcore. They sound like complete crap. So wherever you got this whole "our guitars sound flat" thing, please enlighten me.

i brought an sm57 to their house to record the guitars with they didnt want to, they thought that di was better. oh ya, and i mean direct in like guitar into a pedal then right into the computer. because the guy was such a dick i just wanna rub the fact he was wrong in his face. can you guys back me up with that?

Was I a dick? Scott yelled at you because you said that Dave Grohl wasn't actually the last drummer in nirvana and that some girl was as far as I remember. There's no "wrong" here so have fun rubbing it in my face. Instead of randomly badmouthing the band, why don't you confront us next time? You suggested it, and we explained why we didn't feel it would be a good idea, you agreed right after that. Then you go on the internet and start talking about us being dicks? How cute.


- Chris.

[Kalvarium]

Oh how sweet, an online soap opera. Why dont you just discuss this in private and stop giving your own members a bad name? You're a band, you're gonna grow together so stick together and I dont suggest you shittalk behind your members.
Remember that the recording process requires all the band members to interact and communicate without arguments. At least thats the ideal way.

Anyway, guys, does one REQUIRE and DI box for recording bass without a mic?

Cant it be:

Line Out from Amp to Line In of Mixer?

please, im still learning.

Thanks

[EinzingerIsGod]

You can go from line out of an amp into a mixer usually although a DI box is better. As to the feuding band members...

Take it elsewhere. Micing an amp is the way to go granted you have decent amps to do so with. If you dont have the right equipment maybe invest in a used half cab or something.

[everlonggg]

You can go from line out of an amp into a mixer usually although a DI box is better. As to the feuding band members...

Take it elsewhere. Micing an amp is the way to go granted you have decent amps to do so with. If you dont have the right equipment maybe invest in a used half cab or something.


yes, micing an amp is the way to go if you have decent amps to produce the sound wanted. Money being an issue, we don't have the wanted amps yet so we went direct in and digitally modified the tone.

[InsomniaTrance]

the only way to go DI with a guitar and not have it sound like crap is to pass the signal through a very good processor (some kind of reverb or delay) or post edit in pro-tools. Otherwise it's a no-no for guitar. Just mic the amp, and tell your bandmates to shut up.

[mrcarter]

Tube amp direct out to a comp is a bad idea, unless you wanted to buy yourself a new computer. Trust me, not something you want to **** around with.
Geddy Lee DI's his bass, therefore good in my book, lol. His tone is my guilty pleasure.
And you can actually get good tone by using DI'd guitar in conjunction with something else. Can't remember which album he first did it on (maybe Afterburner?), but Billy Gibbons sends a signal from the amp direct, then sets up a couple mics at varying distances. It creates an absolutely tiny delay that really fattens up the sound.

[zfmt]

ya, man. dont bring this here chris, and i think you probably should read what you wrote... "confront us"then you went on to say that i shouldnt have put our problems online, i didnt want this to happen, thats why i posted it on a forum under a name you wouldnt recognize. hahaha. and you probably could have email me privately or something.

[kevbud187]

I dont care how shity your amps are. MIC THEM. When you do DI you bypass the poweramp and the speaker. (90% of your tonal quality) They will basically sound like kazoos to anyone who isnt in your band or knows anything about recording.

Micing > DI x 10000000000000000

:thumb:

[Aus_rock_god]

I dont know if I'm undestanding much.


To DI a Bass is it possible to go from the Amp Output into the Input of the mixer?

(the mixer will be inputed to the computer)

Does that make sense or am I just **** talking?

Yes, that works, so you can preserve the tone of the pre-amp, although you're probably better off plugging your bass just straight into the mixer, since the sound of what comes out of the speaker on a bass amp (particually one that's been played for a while) could be different to what goes into the mixer, and you can always EQ afterwards.

[Aus_rock_god]

awww zakky how sweet. i haven't said anyhting to you about the guitars as of yet, so i don't know where you'd get this accusation. in all honesty, the guitars sound BEAUTIFUL. i was working on them last night, as i told you in the email. Why didn't we mic the amps? Because the amps we have are like 20 dollar amps that suck hardcore. They sound like complete crap. So wherever you got this whole "our guitars sound flat" thing, please enlighten me.

- Chris.

Dude, you sound like a total dick. If any member of the band doesn't like the way they have been recorded, or sound, and wants to do it another way you should let them. In the end, it's up to the guitarist to decide the final tone for their guitar.

Every guitarist on the planet agrees that amp DI sucks ***. You can hear it, even after tweeking. It comes out fuzzy and flat and just doesn't sound right.

When it comes to guitars, it doesn't matter how much eqing you do after the initial recording, if you don't CAPTURE the sound right in the first place, it will bearly ever sound right.

Besides, if you're eqing after recording, DIing the guitar isn't going to make it better. And an SM57 is designed to pick up the frequencys that sound nice in guitar tones, so it doesn't matter how crappy the amps are, a 57 is probably going to make it sound a little thicker anyway.

You sound like a guy I worked with a month ago who was totally convinced that a 1975 Kustom 250 watt bass amp (sounds good right), with no cooling system (that's okay), when there would be a fogger and many parcans (hmm, not so okay) that had a 4 ohm head and an 8 ohm cab (eeep! hell no!) was going to survive a 7 hour rock festival, with soundchecks before hand, even though every guitarist, bassist and sound guy there was begging him to hire a Trace Elliot.

The guy didn't listen, and the amp eventually blew (the cable between the cab and the head fried), and luckily enough I used a DI box instead of the amp's DI (for that reason).

This is the same guy who wanted to use a plywood drumkit that was in his garage (so I hired a maple TAMA Rockstar), and who blew $600 on 3 underqualified security guards rather than get 3 Chubb security guards for $300 (leaving me running around the half the night kicking people out of the backstage area).

The point I'm giving you, is that you have a whole bunch of experienced people all telling you the one thing, for god's sake listen to them.

Post these recordings here and see what the rest of us think.

[Aus_rock_god]

Oh how sweet, an online soap opera. Why dont you just discuss this in private and stop giving your own members a bad name? You're a band, you're gonna grow together so stick together and I dont suggest you shittalk behind your members.
Remember that the recording process requires all the band members to interact and communicate without arguments. At least thats the ideal way.

Anyway, guys, does one REQUIRE and DI box for recording bass without a mic?

Cant it be:

Line Out from Amp to Line In of Mixer?

please, im still learning.

Thanks

Nah, just plug your bass straight in. A DI is only really usful for splitting a signal so it runs to both an amp and a mixer, or plugging an instrument such as a keyboard or bass into a multicore.

[shayne_122]

Post these recordings here and see what the rest of us think.


yeah, I'm curious too.

[Vitriolic Rage]

Yes, post these recordings.

I only started seriously getting into sound recording about 2 years ago, and even when I started, I knew direct input for guitars was a bad idea.

If it's clean guitar with no distortion, you can sometimes get away with it

[Idle Mind]

I sometimes run DI from my amp as well as using an SM57, as it can give you nice results when you mix a bit in with the mic signal. The thing is my amps line out has speaker emulation built in, so that compensates slightly for the general crapness of DI guitars. I did once record just from a Digitech grunge pedal + a heap of other pedals but that was because I didn't have my amp and wanted a messed up gritty sound anyway :p

I'd never record JUST from a line out, at all from a line out with no speaker emulation, or just from a distortion pedal, it usually sounds quite trebly and flat/lifeless.

[everlonggg]

Dude, you sound like a total dick. If any member of the band doesn't like the way they have been recorded, or sound, and wants to do it another way you should let them. In the end, it's up to the guitarist to decide the final tone for their guitar.

Every guitarist on the planet agrees that amp DI sucks ***. You can hear it, even after tweeking. It comes out fuzzy and flat and just doesn't sound right.

When it comes to guitars, it doesn't matter how much eqing you do after the initial recording, if you don't CAPTURE the sound right in the first place, it will bearly ever sound right.

Besides, if you're eqing after recording, DIing the guitar isn't going to make it better. And an SM57 is designed to pick up the frequencys that sound nice in guitar tones, so it doesn't matter how crappy the amps are, a 57 is probably going to make it sound a little thicker anyway.

You sound like a guy I worked with a month ago who was totally convinced that a 1975 Kustom 250 watt bass amp (sounds good right), with no cooling system (that's okay), when there would be a fogger and many parcans (hmm, not so okay) that had a 4 ohm head and an 8 ohm cab (eeep! hell no!) was going to survive a 7 hour rock festival, with soundchecks before hand, even though every guitarist, bassist and sound guy there was begging him to hire a Trace Elliot.

The guy didn't listen, and the amp eventually blew (the cable between the cab and the head fried), and luckily enough I used a DI box instead of the amp's DI (for that reason).

This is the same guy who wanted to use a plywood drumkit that was in his garage (so I hired a maple TAMA Rockstar), and who blew $600 on 3 underqualified security guards rather than get 3 Chubb security guards for $300 (leaving me running around the half the night kicking people out of the backstage area).

The point I'm giving you, is that you have a whole bunch of experienced people all telling you the one thing, for god's sake listen to them.

Post these recordings here and see what the rest of us think.



it's funny the way you call me a dick. i'm defending the rest of my band. it was the guitarists's choices to go DI. As it's their choice, and I'm completely passive about the issue, I let them go as they please. Meanwhile, our drummer is online posting crap about "oh my band hates me they yell at me blah blah blah" online and bailing on practices to work at mcdonalds...but we won't get into that. i'm not here to argue. it's all in preference, no matter what you say, in the end it's preference. And the guitarists would prefer their instruments gone DI, and to be honest they DON'T sound flat or whatever you insist on. but whatever, I'M the dick, right? Oh, and I'll post the recordings or whatever once they're done.

[kevbud187]

Dear Everlongg,

Two Words:

**** Off

Sincerely,

kevbud187

[shayne_122]

it's funny the way you call me a dick. i'm defending the rest of my band. it was the guitarists's choices to go DI. As it's their choice, and I'm completely passive about the issue, I let them go as they please. Meanwhile, our drummer is online posting crap about "oh my band hates me they yell at me blah blah blah" online and bailing on practices to work at mcdonalds...but we won't get into that. i'm not here to argue. it's all in preference, no matter what you say, in the end it's preference. And the guitarists would prefer their instruments gone DI, and to be honest they DON'T sound flat or whatever you insist on. but whatever, I'M the dick, right? Oh, and I'll post the recordings or whatever once they're done.

lol. It's his fault he has a paying job at McDonald's that he can't give up for band practices, BY CONTRACT, for a band where he isn't currently making any income at all?

anyways, we'll see how it sounds in the recordings. When can we expect to see them up?

[shayne_122]

Oh and PS:

Dear Everlongg,

Two Words:

**** Off

Sincerely,

kevbud187


pwnt.

[kevbud187]

lol

[mrcarter]

Seriously, put your money where your mouth is, and post the recordings.

[shayne_122]

Seriously, put your money where your mouth is, and post the recordings.

123!!!

[Kalvarium]

456

[Vitriolic Rage]

Maybe his band members killed him and ate his liver.

[shayne_122]

Maybe his band members killed him and ate his liver.

I hope they left his bladder. By the sounds of it, he's been swallowing alot of fluid in the closet.

[Aus_rock_god]

it's funny the way you call me a dick. i'm defending the rest of my band. it was the guitarists's choices to go DI. As it's their choice, and I'm completely passive about the issue, I let them go as they please. Meanwhile, our drummer is online posting crap about "oh my band hates me they yell at me blah blah blah" online and bailing on practices to work at mcdonalds...but we won't get into that. i'm not here to argue. it's all in preference, no matter what you say, in the end it's preference. And the guitarists would prefer their instruments gone DI, and to be honest they DON'T sound flat or whatever you insist on. but whatever, I'M the dick, right? Oh, and I'll post the recordings or whatever once they're done.

Ah well, if the guitarists want it, they want it, but did you even TRY micing the guitars up?
If you're completly passive on this issue, why the f*ck are you going on about how good the DI sounds, and how you don't need to mic the amps up?
If he has to bail on practices, maybe you should move the practices, or write a letter to Mc Donalds management asking for one designated day off every week (it's worked for me in the past).
And like I said, if they sound good, prove it.

[kevbud187]

POST YOU WHORE!!

{im spamming at this point lol}

[Aus_rock_god]

Here, I've set up somthing you can see the difference between DI and Mic up on:

http://www.soundclick.com/makeshiftmanner

http://www.myspace.com/makeshiftmanner

Check out the song "Juliet's Blood" on both sites, the soundclick version is the original, with DI guitars (Peavy Raptor+ through a Marshall AVT50). The Myspace version is mics (Same as above, but using a 57).

(this wasn't set up deliberatly, I just realised that I still had the old version on Soundclick, and thought it would be a good example)

[kevbud187]

^^ aahahahahah now everlongg sees how crappy DI is.

[telemore]

What would you do if you lived in an apt. and the option to record was minimal, if non existant? Could there be any way to possibly doctor the DI'd sound to being semi passable?

I'm just curious, and it would give maybe this thread maybe some sort of direction. Maybe.

[WindowLedge]

You could try building some kind of isolation box for your amp out of a really big cardboard box and loads of fluffy, airy stuff

there are many good DI options, though, like speaker simulators (if you already have an amp that you like) or PODxts (or toneports, actually, or anything from Line6, for that matter...)

[Aus_rock_god]

What would you do if you lived in an apt. and the option to record was minimal, if non existant? Could there be any way to possibly doctor the DI'd sound to being semi passable?

I'm just curious, and it would give maybe this thread maybe some sort of direction. Maybe.

You can get away with it if you have an effects board with a cab simulator (Korg AX1500G, Boss GT6 ect), but you need to tweek it a fair bit.

[mrcarter]

I really like the Korg Ampworks for direct-in stuff. I have a recording lying around somewhere, lemme find it.

[mrcarter]

http://media.putfile.com/Meet-With-Me44
Yeah, most of this was DI'd with the Ampworks.
From what I remember, only bongos, vocals, and the acoustic guitar we're mic'd.

[Fretboardninja]

IF u have a nice mic, a good tube amp, a good cab, and the ability to crank up the tube amp to get a good tone without annoying the neighbors, and a good room to record in then mic it..

if not, then get a PODxt and record via usb

[telemore]

Sweet. That was the direction I was thinking of, amp simulators and what not. How bout like NI Guitar Rig (i think it's called?) it does something simular, just in the box.

[Paranoidd]

It's not like it's impossible to get a good tone out of a DI box, it's just not particularly a good way to record guitars.

To be quite honest, a shitty miked amp will probably still sound better than a DI.

[Aus_rock_god]

Where's these recordings at????

[TwiztidLotus17]

Could anyone rate a line 6 toneport in relation to the quality of using a mic? 1-5?

[Fretboardninja]

^ well like i said it all depends on your micing conditions.

F u have a nice mic, a good tube amp, a good cab, and the ability to crank up the tube amp to get a good tone without annoying the neighbors, and a good room to record in then mic it..

If you dont have this ability then a toneport will sound better then a cheap sm57 on an uncranked tube amp in your bedroom...

there is a song on here called "ultimatum" that had the guitars done by a toneport.

check it out

www.soundclick.com/bulb

[shayne_122]

^ well like i said it all depends on your micing conditions.

F u have a nice mic, a good tube amp, a good cab, and the ability to crank up the tube amp to get a good tone without annoying the neighbors, and a good room to record in then mic it..

If you dont have this ability then a toneport will sound better then a cheap sm57 on an uncranked tube amp in your bedroom...

there is a song on here called "ultimatum" that had the guitars done by a toneport.

check it out

www.soundclick.com/bulb


That sounds pretty godly, to be honest.