Gigging bass player in a metal band needs suggestions on new rig!

[thrashfanatic2010]

Hey guys, Im a predominantly fingerstyle bass player who plays in a Heavy metal band. Our set up as of now is a trio and in turn we have one guitar player. Since this is a trio situation , I as a player play more complex stuff and have to fill up more sonic space so to speak and must cut through.

What I'm asking is in the 1500-2000 CDN dollar price range, what would you guys suggest in a 4x10/amp head pairing for that kinda money? I use a Musicman SUB 5 string bass that has a lot of definition and tone with loads of active bottom end. Since naturally MM's have really no midrange I esp. need one with some decent midrange options.

lately I have been looking at Amepeg gear as it's well known as the industry standard. However, I am open to other suggestions as well. I would like to spend ideally around 1500 but most likely I'll be spending closer 2000 which I have no problem with as long there is quality.

thanks.

[Led_Zeppelin678]

http://www.avatarspeakers.com

Great cabs, ridiculously low price.

As far as rock and metal, Ampeg and Mesa/Boogie are the two absolute best (IMO).

[Mr. Pickle]

money conversion please, someone

[thrashfanatic2010]

http://www.avatarspeakers.com

Great cabs, ridiculously low price.

As far as rock and metal, Ampeg and Mesa/Boogie are the two absolute best (IMO).


How can they make cabs that cheap having the quality suffer?

I'm sure they are a good cab but with my experiences It's usually you get what you pay for.

*refering to the avatar cabs*

[neatobassman]

How can they make cabs that cheap having the quality suffer?

I'm sure they are a good cab but with my experiences It's usually you get what you pay for.

*refering to the avatar cabs*

I don't know...People swear up and down this forum about them. About half of the forum has/had an avatar cab. lol.


Look into Gallien-Krueger. Nice amps. I like alot of mids also, and their amps make me happy.

[Mr. Pickle]

avatar's are great

[thrashfanatic2010]

I don't know...People swear up and down this forum about them. About half of the forum has/had an avatar cab. lol.


Look into Gallien-Krueger. Nice amps. I like alot of mids also, and their amps make me happy.

GK definitely make solid equipment as well but Ive talked to some very knowledgable bassists and some say that GKs are great but they don't have alot of midrange and have a ton of bottom and the thing is I need midrange esp. in my situation.

[thrashfanatic2010]

Specifically refering to the Ampeg stuff would anyone refer or recommend any specific amps or cabs by them?

[Mr. Pickle]

well, are you comfortable w/ the used market? otherwise i wouldn't recommend them.

[thrashfanatic2010]

well, are you comfortable w/ the used market? otherwise i wouldn't recommend them.

I have no problem with used stuff as long as it works properly for the most part.

[Jimbobntnr]

GKs are great but they don't have alot of midrange and have a ton of bottom


I felt this way too, what I would recommend on the GK stuff is reading the manual. You can download them from the gk site, then go to a store and play one knowing what all the buttons and knobs do. It took about 8 years for me to realize that I didn't know how to set my 800rb correctly.

People hate hartke stuff, but I have one that I used as a backup while the GK was in the shop. I found the mids to be quite pleasant, so you may want to look into those if at all possible.

[eburton04]

I play SWR in my metal band and it works just fine. and i have complex basslines too, and.. well yeah. It works just fine. Never really have any problems cutting through or anything. Very solid, if you ask me.

[Naveed Afzal]

Specifically refering to the Ampeg stuff would anyone refer or recommend any specific amps or cabs by them?

I play a b2-re thru a SVT HE, i also just added a Trace 15, but thats a hore of a different color...

I like my ampeg, ive been toying with selling her putting out there seeing what i can get for it. But i really like it, its loud enough by itself, its a little noisey, but im not sure if its really it or my Bass, im getting new pups in so time will tell... I got it as a gift after i had purchased a Ashdown Rig on my own... sold the Ashdown kept the Ampeg.

Now my friend he plays in a metal band and he uses Randall gear, ive never heard of them, but he action gets a clanky tone. Even when i play thru his rig, it sounds like im slapping all the time... atleast the way he EQs it he's had it a while he says and its never given him trouble, ITS REALLY LOUD ALSO. so loud, he gave his guitarist his 4x10 and plays thru a 15 now, and he's the loudest thing on stage.

[Led_Zeppelin678]

I second the B2-RE. That and an SVT-410HE or (my preference) HLF are probably one of the best inexpensive half-stacks you can buy. It's 450 watts, by the way.

[tinnitus]

Flea uses GK, and he fills up more than enough sonic space, he also used a MM around the bssm/ohm period, and that is basically what you got.

You want an ampeg 4x10, the 4ohm ampeg is the HLF and the 8ohm ampeg is the HE, everyone recommends the HLF if you arent considering buying a 15 inch later on to bi amp... does your band have a my space?

[caffeeeine]

I use an Ampeg SVT4PRO with an Ampeg 8x10 classic cab and I wouldn't trade it for anything except a Mesa stack. I play in a hardcore metal band and it's perfect.

[NoOsH]

Mesa

[sixner]

I use an ampeg B2 head (80's) through swr goliathIII 4x10, and it works alright for my hardcore/metal band... Id reccomend a different head, GK or Mesa would do well i think. I love GK stuff, RB series FTW
-sixner

[eburton04]

Mesa

man, whenever i decide to upgrade my equipment, i'm definitely going with Mesa. It's expensive, but i love the sound.. tried one out in guitar center once, and its was just a really STRONG tone, if you know what i mean. plus it had a cool blue light. haha j/k, but seriously..

[mastrrbasser]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=314883

"untitled" and "this time around" were recorded by my metal band. Quality is a bit sub par(recorded on a video camera), and i'm not much of a metal player (more into funk and hiphop basslines) but i use a hartke vx410 and a hartke 3500 head. There is only one guitarist and i have to fill a lot of gaps like you said, and my rig really helps me cut through. I'm using my warwick on "this time around," and my schecter (which doens't have a really heavy midrange like your sub) on untitled.

deffinately check out hartke. You have the moeny to get a better cab for me, but for the price you can't beat the 3500 head.

[ebe9]

Hartke
SWR
Eden (If you can afford it)
Aguilar

[mikespahn]

i highly recomend the ampeg SVT-410HLF for a cab. it has great mid response and totally beats any 410 i've ever played in the low end response (even a lot of 15 cabs). check the ampeg site for the specs on freq. response, power handling, sensitivity, max SPL, and all that other important stuff.

i've had mine for a little over a year and i wouldnt trade it for anything. great tone, also its only about $700

[muthafunkabass]

I play a b2-re thru a SVT HE, i also just added a Trace 15, but thats a hore of a different color...

I like my ampeg, ive been toying with selling her putting out there seeing what i can get for it. But i really like it, its loud enough by itself, its a little noisey, but im not sure if its really it or my Bass, im getting new pups in so time will tell... I got it as a gift after i had purchased a Ashdown Rig on my own... sold the Ashdown kept the Ampeg.

Now my friend he plays in a metal band and he uses Randall gear, ive never heard of them, but he action gets a clanky tone. Even when i play thru his rig, it sounds like im slapping all the time... atleast the way he EQs it he's had it a while he says and its never given him trouble, ITS REALLY LOUD ALSO. so loud, he gave his guitarist his 4x10 and plays thru a 15 now, and he's the loudest thing on stage.
The clanky tone is subject to him playing through a guitar rig. Randall do not make bass amplification.

[thrashfanatic2010]

Flea uses GK, and he fills up more than enough sonic space, he also used a MM around the bssm/ohm period, and that is basically what you got.

You want an ampeg 4x10, the 4ohm ampeg is the HLF and the 8ohm ampeg is the HE, everyone recommends the HLF if you arent considering buying a 15 inch later on to bi amp... does your band have a my space?


yeah we do, its www.myspace.com/finalstage

they're are 3 of our originals live and a cover song.

[thrashfanatic2010]

bump

[thrashfanatic2010]

I play SWR in my metal band and it works just fine. and i have complex basslines too, and.. well yeah. It works just fine. Never really have any problems cutting through or anything. Very solid, if you ask me.


what kind of model of SWR do you have?

[mikespahn]

you should check out basstasters.com

they have some sound clips of different preamps played with different basses. it would give you some sort of idea as to the different characteristic sounds of different amp manufacturers.

[thrashfanatic2010]

you should check out basstasters.com

they have some sound clips of different preamps played with different basses. it would give you some sort of idea as to the different characteristic sounds of different amp manufacturers.

thanks.

[studmuffin]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=314883

"untitled" and "this time around" were recorded by my metal band. Quality is a bit sub par(recorded on a video camera), and i'm not much of a metal player (more into funk and hiphop basslines) but i use a hartke vx410 and a hartke 3500 head. There is only one guitarist and i have to fill a lot of gaps like you said, and my rig really helps me cut through. I'm using my warwick on "this time around," and my schecter (which doens't have a really heavy midrange like your sub) on untitled.

deffinately check out hartke. You have the moeny to get a better cab for me, but for the price you can't beat the 3500 head.

please get your GP a tuner or show him how to use the one he has. :p
i vote Mesa. if my GK craps out i will go that way.

[Radiobass81]

Firstly, great first post. I envy your eloquence (sp?).

Second, the SUB isn't what lack mids, but the preamp, as it's only two-band EQ. You're able to boost everthing BUT the mids, so it leaves out a bit :(.

As a fellow Ernie Ball player (although it's a Stingray), I understand your problem with midrange (a bit... 3-band EQ). Although they are not stacks, you should really try Rolands; they have, by FAR, the most tweakable (sp?) midrange I've seen in an amp. The tone is great as well, not to mention, you get digital-amp goodness.

However, I speak of higher-end Roland amps (not Cube); the DB series. They are pretty expensive (if I'm not mistaken, the Roland DB210, a 2x10, 400W combo, is around $1,200 american, although I'm sure the price has lowered by now). I was lucky, and I bought the discontinued Roland DB500 (1x12, with a "shape" button to sound like a 1x15) for a mere $400. Look used, maybe.

After Roland, my favorite amps are SWR and Hartke, and a Musicman through a Hartke is just incredible; tons of punch and high-mids. Hartke might be a good option, as not only are they cheap, but they make a variaty of models with different speaker possibilities, and the choice of paper or cone speakers (I'd go with cone, myself).

SWR will give you a great tone, but I find they lack a bit on the mids, except maybe low-mids...

All I can do for now.

EDIT: Since Ampeg have been mentioned, I'll give it a shot;

I am not a big fan of Ampeg, I must say. Their combos are overpriced and the tone is a bit too dark (even for me). Their stacks sound MUCH better, but the only one I played, overheated in 10 minutes. That was the head, however; the cab was fine.

And that's the only Ampeg stack I've gotten to play :(.

[mastrrbasser]

please get your GP a tuner or show him how to use the one he has. :p
i vote Mesa. if my GK craps out i will go that way.


yeah, i rarely jam with him, and his improv skills need some serious work.

[thrashfanatic2010]

Hey RadioBass81, these roland bass amps that you talk about, would they be loud enough for gigs like mid sized clubs, bars and battle of the bands type events?

As of now I have a washburn 75 w combo and the thing is the tone is excellent but the power just isn't there. Even in our practices it only barely keep up.

[mikespahn]

Firstly, great first post. I envy your eloquence (sp?).

Second, the SUB isn't what lack mids, but the preamp, as it's only two-band EQ. You're able to boost everthing BUT the mids, so it leaves out a bit :(.

As a fellow Ernie Ball player (although it's a Stingray), I understand your problem with midrange (a bit... 3-band EQ). Although they are not stacks, you should really try Rolands; they have, by FAR, the most tweakable (sp?) midrange I've seen in an amp. The tone is great as well, not to mention, you get digital-amp goodness.

However, I speak of higher-end Roland amps (not Cube); the DB series. They are pretty expensive (if I'm not mistaken, the Roland DB210, a 2x10, 400W combo, is around $1,200 american, although I'm sure the price has lowered by now). I was lucky, and I bought the discontinued Roland DB500 (1x12, with a "shape" button to sound like a 1x15) for a mere $400. Look used, maybe.

After Roland, my favorite amps are SWR and Hartke, and a Musicman through a Hartke is just incredible; tons of punch and high-mids. Hartke might be a good option, as not only are they cheap, but they make a variaty of models with different speaker possibilities, and the choice of paper or cone speakers (I'd go with cone, myself).

SWR will give you a great tone, but I find they lack a bit on the mids, except maybe low-mids...

All I can do for now.

EDIT: Since Ampeg have been mentioned, I'll give it a shot;

I am not a big fan of Ampeg, I must say. Their combos are overpriced and the tone is a bit too dark (even for me). Their stacks sound MUCH better, but the only one I played, overheated in 10 minutes. That was the head, however; the cab was fine.

And that's the only Ampeg stack I've gotten to play :(.

you can still have lots of mids with something with a 2 band eq. if you cut some highs and lows, that equates to the same type of sound as boosted mids

[NoOsH]

man, whenever i decide to upgrade my equipment, i'm definitely going with Mesa. It's expensive, but i love the sound.. tried one out in guitar center once, and its was just a really STRONG tone, if you know what i mean. plus it had a cool blue light. haha j/k, but seriously..


Exactly!

~NoOsH

[thrashfanatic2010]

would you advise staying away from the peavey "Max" models?

[Radiobass81]

Hey RadioBass81, these roland bass amps that you talk about, would they be loud enough for gigs like mid sized clubs, bars and battle of the bands type events?

As of now I have a washburn 75 w combo and the thing is the tone is excellent but the power just isn't there. Even in our practices it only barely keep up.
Yup.

I have the smallest DB model, the DB500, and I used it on an auditorium that could fill around 500 people with it, and it wasn't on full volume. Not to mention, they all have DI out, so you could be PA'd as well.

you can still have lots of mids with something with a 2 band eq. if you cut some highs and lows, that equates to the same type of sound as boosted mids

... No. That's like having no bass and treble, and flat mids.

[Radiobass81]

Reviews of Roland DB amps:
http://www.bgra.net/reviews/roland-db-500-1-rvw.html
http://www.bgra.net/reviews/roland-db-700-1-rvw.html
http://www.bgra.net/reviews/roland-db500-1-rvw.html
http://www.bgra.net/reviews/roland-db500-2-rvw.html
http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Data/Roland/DB_700-1.html
http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Data/Roland/DB_900_Combo-1.html
http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Data/Roland/DB_500-1.html
http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Data/Roland/DB_500_112_Combo-1.html

[British Kid]

Firstly, great first post. I envy your eloquence (sp?).

Second, the SUB isn't what lack mids, but the preamp, as it's only two-band EQ. You're able to boost everthing BUT the mids, so it leaves out a bit :(.

As a fellow Ernie Ball player (although it's a Stingray), I understand your problem with midrange (a bit... 3-band EQ). Although they are not stacks, you should really try Rolands; they have, by FAR, the most tweakable (sp?) midrange I've seen in an amp. The tone is great as well, not to mention, you get digital-amp goodness.

However, I speak of higher-end Roland amps (not Cube); the DB series. They are pretty expensive (if I'm not mistaken, the Roland DB210, a 2x10, 400W combo, is around $1,200 american, although I'm sure the price has lowered by now). I was lucky, and I bought the discontinued Roland DB500 (1x12, with a "shape" button to sound like a 1x15) for a mere $400. Look used, maybe.

After Roland, my favorite amps are SWR and Hartke, and a Musicman through a Hartke is just incredible; tons of punch and high-mids. Hartke might be a good option, as not only are they cheap, but they make a variaty of models with different speaker possibilities, and the choice of paper or cone speakers (I'd go with cone, myself).

SWR will give you a great tone, but I find they lack a bit on the mids, except maybe low-mids...

All I can do for now.

EDIT: Since Ampeg have been mentioned, I'll give it a shot;

I am not a big fan of Ampeg, I must say. Their combos are overpriced and the tone is a bit too dark (even for me). Their stacks sound MUCH better, but the only one I played, overheated in 10 minutes. That was the head, however; the cab was fine.

And that's the only Ampeg stack I've gotten to play :(.
i can't really speak for Roland bass amps, but i've heard some of their guitar ones. really great tone. However, i can definatly throw a vote in for a Hartke rig. They really are great for the price (if you go with hartke, go for aluminum ones, they would sound great in cutting through the metal mix). Ampeg has been mentioned alot and those are great too. When i upgrade my rig, I'll either go with Ampeg or Hartke as they are great. Another good option, though expensive, would be Aguilar. They have incredible tone IMO and i think they would really cut through a mix really well.

[Radiobass81]

i can't really speak for Roland bass amps, but i've heard some of their guitar ones. really great tone. However, i can definatly throw a vote in for a Hartke rig. They really are great for the price (if you go with hartke, go for aluminum ones, they would sound great in cutting through the metal mix). Ampeg has been mentioned alot and those are great too. When i upgrade my rig, I'll either go with Ampeg or Hartke as they are great. Another good option, though expensive, would be Aguilar. They have incredible tone IMO and i think they would really cut through a mix really well.
I've got fond memories of being in a guitar shop, hearing some guitarist play through what I thought was a huge marshall stack, with incredible tone, to later find out he was using a Cube 60. Haha.

Haven't played Aguilar. :(

[British Kid]

I've got fond memories of being in a guitar shop, hearing some guitarist play through what I thought was a huge marshall stack, with incredible tone, to later find out he was using a Cube 60. Haha.

Haven't played Aguilar. :(
i played a used one in a guitar center about a year ago, and the tone blew me away. i think it was one of those dual channel ones (solid state). it was unbelievable. I could have swore it was tube, but it wasn't. even though the model i played was a little shy in the high end response, i'd buy it if i had the money. I really want a dual channel amp..... i'm thinking i'll get one of those Tech 21 programmable bass drivers.... 3 channels of sweet tube emulation.... :thumb:

[thrashfanatic2010]

I was looking at two ampegs heads earlier today; a BR4E and an SVT3PRO and I was wondering which is better for the value and which has better tone?

[tinnitus]

don't know about the br4e but the svt lll pro is the best sounding hybrid head on the market imo... According to basscentre in melbourne (the best bass guitar centre in australia) it is their most popular ampeg head aswell...

[thrashfanatic2010]

Secondly I was also wondering about some Ampeg cabs both the Classic 4x10 and the B series 4x10 and what they are like compared to each and their each of their pros and cons as well.

[thrashfanatic2010]

bump

[thrashfanatic2010]

can anyone help me? :(

[The Brad]

Probably price, weight and frequency range?

I dunno, try bgra.net or harmony central for reviews.

[mikespahn]

the frequency range, power rating, ohms rating are different.
the b series cabs are ok, but there are much better cabs out in that price range. the classic series cabs are a little more expensive but sound a lot better to me and can handle more power. i have the classic series cab SVT-410HLF. it has amazing lowend response for 10" speakers. lots of punch, really clear highs with an attenuator knob for the horn.

[eburton04]

what kind of model of SWR do you have?


the amp itself is an SWR SM-400S
Power handling:
-Mono
500 Watts @ 4 ohm loads, 400 Watts @ 8 ohms, and 250 Watts @ 16 ohms
-Stereo
300 watts @ 2 ohms, 250 Watts @ 4 ohms, and 150 Watts into 8 ohms each

it sounds great man. definitely a really solid amp. it delivers man.


the cab i play with is an SWR Goliath 3 4x10 cab
Power Handling: 700 Watts RMS
Impedance: 4 Ohms


It's a very nice combination if you ask me. and i got it used for 800 bucks, but there was something wrong with the amp and i had to get it fixed and that cost me about 200..
then run you a boss distortion pedal and a dunlop wahwah and you got yourself one heavy metal rig. :thumb:

[British Kid]

i'd say if you can afford it, go for the SVTIII-Pro. These heads are awesome for all kinds of music (from metal to jazz) and they're a dang good value. However, if you can only afford the B4RE that'll be great too. It's SS but has a great ampeg tone (is the B4RE the B-Series of the SVT4 or SVTIII). it probably has the same amount of power (if it is the "poor man's version" of the SVTIII). either would be awesome, depending on if you get a decent cab(s).

[Radiobass81]

i'd say if you can afford it, go for the SVTIII-Pro. These heads are awesome for all kinds of music (from metal to jazz) and they're a dang good value. However, if you can only afford the B4RE that'll be great too. It's SS but has a great ampeg tone (is the B4RE the B-Series of the SVT4 or SVTIII). it probably has the same amount of power (if it is the "poor man's version" of the SVTIII). either would be awesome, depending on if you get a decent cab(s).
I really wouldn't say you can get that many tones out of an Ampeg. They are pretty dark (sometimes associated with the vintage tone, for some reason), and it's hard to get that tone off of it.

Also, the SVTs are incredibly overpriced and the wattage handling is exaggerated, as it's MUCH lower than what it actually says. Not great value at all.

[British Kid]

I really wouldn't say you can get that many tones out of an Ampeg. They are pretty dark (sometimes associated with the vintage tone, for some reason), and it's hard to get that tone off of it.

Also, the SVTs are incredibly overpriced and the wattage handling is exaggerated, as it's MUCH lower than what it actually says. Not great value at all.
eh, IMO, i like the tones that ampeg's have. i can get varied tones from my ampeg gear, from punk to slap and jazz tones.... anyway, just my opinion.... However, i do agree with the overpricing. I don't know about the wattage handling, but i've heard this before.

[mikespahn]

ampeg does exagerate thier wattage. i know this from experience.

the svt-3 does sound really nice but isnt that powerful. the b4re is the b series of the SVT-4. much more power than the svt-3 but not quite as nice of tone. if you are playing venues with a decent PA, than tone is definately more important than power. the PA will make you however loud you need to be.

i agree that ampeg does have a distinct tone (one that i cant get enough of) but i also agree that they can be versitile. i can get a wide range of tones from my ampeg gear.

[Lefty]

I use an Ibanez GWB1 through a Sansamp Bass Driver DI right into the table(phantom power) for Jazz, Death, Black, and Heavy Metal live situations. Works like a charm. Amps begone.

[BloodOnTheScript]

I have Ampeg SVT3-Pro running through 2 4x10 Ampeg BSE 410 cabs.

Ampeg = SWEET

[Jaded]

GKs are great but they don't have alot of midrange and have a ton of bottom and the thing is I need midrange esp. in my situation.
Wha What?! GK's have plenty of midrange. Those are growly @ss mofos.

[mikespahn]

i guess its just me cause a lot of people seem to like them but to me GK's sound cheap unless you have a really really nice bass.

[Jaded]

It's just you.

[tinnitus]

Wha What?! GK's have plenty of midrange. Those are growly @ss mofos.

that's right gangsta, you can't beat them

[thrashfanatic2010]

I also checked out an SWR rig today, It was a workingpro 700 head with a goliath3 4x10 and I was very surpirsed on how good it was. The midrange punch was undeniable on it.