Model J VS Ultra J

[Killer Fridge]

Tone opinion question for everyone out there

Which (in your opinion) would compliment my Thumb BO better? I've really liked the idea of the Model Js in the Thumb - but recently im not too certain.

So, to accentuate the growl of the Thumb, and to generally get away from the pappy MEC tone, which would (in your opion, obviously there is no definative answer) suit me better?

[Tryxx]

Model J's I believe are said to have more growl. Ultra J's have a hotter output and typically hightened responce all around.

I think the Model J's would treat you well.

[Killer Fridge]

Well, that was good enough for me :thumb:

And with that, including shipping, they were ordered. All for 65 GBP.

Not bad, i must say.

Next on the list is a U-retro, or something similar :thumb:

[bottlerocket]

Edge tells me Model J's have a hotter output. In any case, Model Js will serve your bass well. DiMarzios will serve your bass well.

-Gav

[edgebass5]

Edge tells me Model J's have a hotter output.

Edge tells you no such thing! Ultra J's have a noticeably higher output than the Model J's.

The tonal differences are pretty big between the two. The Ultras have more bass and treble but less mids (i.e. built-in scooped tone). The Models have less bass and treble but more mids. The bass response on the Models is still DAMN good, and the top-end isn't harsh at all.

If you're just going to play in your bedroom I would recommend the Ultra J's, but if you play in a band setting I can think of no better pickup than the Model J's.

[bottlerocket]

^ I swear to God you did...if I didn't have an English term paper to work on in order to graduate from high school, I'd look for the thread...:lol:

-Gav

[Tryxx]

Nope, I doubt he ever did... It's got the output listed right on the website.

[bottlerocket]

^ Maybe I'm crazy...:amaze:

-Gav

[super deluxe]

Edge tells you no such thing! Ultra J's have a noticeably higher output than the Model J's.

The tonal differences are pretty big between the two. The Ultras have more bass and treble but less mids (i.e. built-in scooped tone). The Models have less bass and treble but more mids. The bass response on the Models is still DAMN good, and the top-end isn't harsh at all.

If you're just going to play in your bedroom I would recommend the Ultra J's, but if you play in a band setting I can think of no better pickup than the Model J's.


That sounds about right to me. (I have both in two of my basses).

I don't know what sound you're going for, but I find the Ultras have a very aggressive tone, which could be well suited to some styles. The Model Js do very well in a band mix, and I really like the way they record. They don't have the very distinctive attack the way the Ultras do though.

[muthafunkabass]

^ Maybe I'm crazy...:amaze:

-Gav
Ya think?


You spend 75% of your time making sure that animal pictures aren't posted on some online forum full of openly-gay musicians....

[darrell]

You spend 75% of your time making sure that animal pictures aren't posted on some online forum full of openly-gay musicians....

Hahahahah.... very well put.

One more day, eh?

[bottlerocket]

MFB: :lol: This is true...actually, it's like 75% of my free time. :thumb:

And there's not many openly-gay people on here...I only know of one bisexual member, and I post regularly in the bass forum, hardcore/emo forum, and pop-punk forum, as well as the mod forum, where we're all kept up to date, and I've never seen anyone mentioned as a homosexual...:amaze:

-Gav

[neatobassman]

(pointless post)

Awesome Avatar there Gav

[Mr. Pickle]

i'd like to hear some more responses to the 'real' thread. i'm in the same situation

[SLKBassist]

Yeah i'm still divided on these. Which of the two would be best for more bassy low end, but still sounding good for higher notes and harmonies?

[kilian]

Model J in the back and Ultra J in the front :p

That would be the best setup I think. I've got the Model J's, but I think the neck pickup lacks a bit of clarity. Just a bit though, but it does.

[edgebass5]

Model J in the back and Ultra J in the front :p

That would be the best setup I think. I've got the Model J's, but I think the neck pickup lacks a bit of clarity. Just a bit though, but it does.

Two reasons why that would be a bad idea (well.. just one reason actually, but two different points):

1. The Ultra J would have a higher output than the Model J and would overpower it.

2. The neck pickup on a bass has more volume potential than the bridge pickup, so the neck pickup will typically overpower the bridge. This is even further compounded by the fact that the ultra has more output as it is.

I think what you would get would basically be the neck pickup tone of an ultra j set.

[kilian]

If you raise the output from a Model J with the series/parallel switch it's noticeable louder. You can also lower the Neck pickup a little bit more and if you've got a good volume control, you can easily dial in a little bit more from the neck pickup or cut it.

I do this now with my Model J's and it works. 150 for the Model J and 250 for the Ultra J is 2/3 louder, yes. But again; if you've got a good volume knob, I can really see it work.

[zink182]

the growl from a thumb plus model j's would probably be enough to scare little children :D so I'd go with them :)

[edgebass5]

kilian: even with the neck in parallel and the bridge in series, plus having a lower neck pickup than bridge pickup you'll still end up with a primarily neck driven tone. Add to that the additional 100mV that you get from the ultras as compared to the models and I think my prior statement holds true. That being said I'm coming from the standpoint of full volume to both pickups (or centered blend knob). You could dial it out as you said, but ultimately I really think you'll end up limiting the number of useable tones in a bass setup that way. Purely speculation though.

zink182: To quote Tom Hamilton (referring to his Sadowsky 5-string): "It sounds like a dinosaur eating cars." That'd likely be the tonal quality of a Model J equipped Thumb :lol:

[kilian]

I would like to give it a try, because I think the neck pickup from the Model J's are way too woody if you get my point. I know what your point is and yes, that is really true. 100 mV is a lot if we talk about basses. :)

Maybe it's the bass though..

[super deluxe]

I would like to give it a try, because I think the neck pickup from the Model J's are way too woody if you get my point. I know what your point is and yes, that is really true. 100 mV is a lot if we talk about basses. :)

Maybe it's the bass though..


It's the bass.


Well, maybe not. But I certainly wouldn't describe model Js as "woody." And the neck pickup has great attack in my jazz bass. I would never ever use my bass with Ultras for "pop rock"- the tone would be all kinds of wrong.

[kilian]

Well.. they sound woody alone sometimes, but in a bandsituation they are pure secks. Only sometimes I need a little more clarity/warmth and that's not in it.

[SLKBassist]

ok, so it seems from whats posted that the best bet for plenty of bass and low end growl without sacrificing the highs and harmonies needed for a poppy sound, would be both neck and brdge model J's, am I right?
Or would there be a better combination choice for that?

[super deluxe]

Well.. they sound woody alone sometimes, but in a bandsituation they are pure secks. Only sometimes I need a little more clarity/warmth and that's not in it.


MORE warmth? Huh. We must have very different concepts of what these terms mean.

You're certainly not going to get warmth from UltraJazz pickups, that's for sure.

[Mr. Pickle]

*bump

so are people basically saying it sticks out too much in a band? (alternative rock band?)

[muthafunkabass #2]

^There is nothing as sticking to out in a band for a bass IMO.

My views:

Band Setting: Model J's
Solo Setting: Ultra J's
If your doing both: Model J's

[Mr. Pickle]

are you trying to say theres no such thing as sticking out to much?

if so, i completely disagree.

and that's basically everyone's view and i'm trying to actually get someone to explain why.


thanks though.

[muthafunkabass #2]

are you trying to say theres no such thing as sticking out to much?

if so, i completely disagree.

and that's basically everyone's view and i'm trying to actually get someone to explain why.


thanks though.


^There is nothing as sticking to out in a band for a bass IMO.

My views:

Band Setting: Model J's
Solo Setting: Ultra J's
If your doing both: Model J's

For a bass in a band, I think it is hard to stick out too much. Very hard. I don't think pickups alone could do that.

Here I'll modify my other part including why:

Band Setting: Model J's because they are known as THE pickups for cutting through, the reason for that is that they are mid-driven.

Solo Setting: Ultra J's because solo bass sounds very good when you scoop your EQ, and Ultra J's are made "pre-scooped" for lack of a better term. So in other words they have boosted bass and treble, with cut-out mids.

If your doing both: Model J's because you can still get a good sound for solo stuff, while getting a great sound in your band. With Ultra J's, you'll get a great sound for solo stuff, but a terrible sound in your band. Scooped just does not sound good in a band setting.

[SenòrThump]

Most people here are just saying what they've read. I have used both pickups in my '04 MIA Jazz, and both pickups rip it up in a band context.

The Model's have a growlier mid-range (specially on the Bridge pickup), and the Ultra's have a bigger bottom and a more hifi top end (People just assume this means the Ultra's lack mids - wrong). I'm currently using the Ultra's as I find they have a bit more clarity (I'm a big slapper). Also, my band plays heavy rock and the Ultra's just kick and cut like no tomorrow.

Both are very good pickups, but you can't just go off what the internet says. I would have been curious to see what the outcome of the Ultra's in a Thumb would have been :cool:

[muthafunkabass #2]

Most people here are just saying what they've read. I have used both pickups in my '04 MIA Jazz, and both pickups rip it up in a band context.

The Model's have a growlier mid-range (specially on the Bridge pickup), and the Ultra's have a bigger bottom and a more hifi top end. I'm currently using the Ultra's as I find they have a bit more clarity (I'm a big slapper). My band plays heavy rock and the Ultra's just kick.

Both are very good pickups, but you can't just go off what the internet says. I would have been curious to see what the outcome of the Ultra's in a Thumb would have been :cool:
I've played both pickups at guitar center. Fender MIM and CIJ jazzes. Didn't get to try them out in a band but you could here the tonal differences.

[Mr. Pickle]

well, the only thing i'm questioning is how you say the model j cuts through so much, yet you say it's great in a band setting. in my eyes, a good band has a nice blend of everything, w/ cutting through only happening when needed.

[Mr. Pickle]

all i have to go off of is sound clips and the internet. the only guitar store close to me is a small local-type one. these aren't something i can take home, try in my band and then decide...

[SenòrThump]

I've played both pickups at guitar center. Fender MIM and CIJ jazzes. Didn't get to try them out in a band but you could here the tonal differences.

Yes there are definitely tonal differences. I'm just pointing out the fact that many people are saying the Ultra's don't fit very well in a band context when this is not true at all.

[muthafunkabass #2]

Fair enough you've obviously had alot more experience with them than me.:)

[nicatterberry]

Just because you've had experience with them in a store does not mean that you've heard how well they sound in a band seeting or at home MFB.

[muthafunkabass #2]

well, the only thing i'm questioning is how you say the model j cuts through so much, yet you say it's great in a band setting. in my eyes, a good band has a nice blend of everything, w/ cutting through only happening when needed.
I'm saying that cut-through well for a band setting. Idon't think any pickup has the ability on its on to cut through "too much". I mean there could be one, but there isn't any I know of. Besides, EQing could fix the problem easily.

[muthafunkabass #2]

Just because you've had experience with them in a store does not mean that you've heard how well they sound in a band seeting or at home MFB.
Point taken, I'm well aware of the fact. He can value my opinion as he chooses.

[Mr. Pickle]

so senor, what would you prefer for an alternative rock type band?

[SenòrThump]

Either are capable of fitting into that type of genre. The Model's mid-range is more voiced towards that, but like i said earlier, either model gets the job done (plus with a little bit of help from your the eq on your amp, anything is possible). It all depends on which one the user prefers. Neither is better or worse than the other.