frayed ends of sanity

[hairydinosaurs]

This is just a random thread to see if i'm the only drummer to find parts of 'Frayed ends of Sanity' by metallica hard/confusing? I mean the change over between a bass/crash start to a snare/crash start. an example is below, though i'm not sure how it will look as it's out of proportion here.


C |----------------|----------------|x-------|x---------------|
H |x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|--x-x-x-|--x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S |--o---o---o---o-|--o---o---o-----|o---o-o-|--o---o---o---o-|
B |o----o---o---d--|-o-o-o---o--o-o-|--o-----|o----o-o-o-o-o--|

also:


c |x-----x-|----------------|--------------x-|x-x-x-----------|
h |--------|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-x-x---|------x-x-x-x-x-|
s |o-----o-|--o---o---o---o-|--o---o---o---o-|--o---o---o---o-|
t |-ooooo--|----------------|----------------|----------------|
t |-ooooo--|----------------|----------------|----------------|
b |-ooooo--|o--o-o-o-o-o-o-o|-o-o-o-o-o---d--|o---o----o-o-o-o|

C |------------s-s-|x---------------|----------------|s-------------x-|
H |x-x-x-x-x-x-----|--x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|--x-x-x-x-x-x---|
S |--o---o---o-o-o-|o---o---o---o---|o---o---o---o---|o---o---o---o---|
B |-o-o-o-o-o------|--o----o-o-o-o-o|---o-o-o-o-o---d|--o----o-o-o--o-|

thanks
\m/( >< )\m/

[Carn]

well, that whole record is full of semi-inlogical segments and transitions..just try to learn them the best you can.

[punkrockband]

where in the song are those beats? im listening to the cd now, it doesnt sound too confusing. but i just wanted to know exactly where you were getting confused

[Drummer300btx]

He "turns the beat around" quite a bit on AJFA. And by that I mean he'll play snare on the backbeat and then put it on the downbeat. pretty sweet. His fill at 4:02 in the song is really good too.

[hairydinosaurs]

the part of the song is during the guitar solo, i'm not sure which one but i think it's the second.

[punkrockband]

i see where you mean, it comes in around 5:10. im not trying to sound like an a-hole or anything, but i dont really see how that is confusing, unless youre just starting out. if thats the case, like everyone else would tell you, slow it down until you are comfortable with the change, then gradually bring it up.

[hairydinosaurs]

i'm not that much of a noob, i've been playing for 4 years but i've never played a song with that sort of change before, it's the only song, except One, i have tried on AJFA

[Matter]

AJFA is a killer album, still one of my all time faves...to bad when you think of what could have been a follow up to that album..THANKS BOB.

[Damo]

Hairy, once you get your head around the time changes, its reasonably straight forward.

Carn, the strange phrasings that riddle that album are exactly what I love about it. It doesnt really conform to any standards, and just as well - I believe that once you start adding rules to your songwriting, its time to put down the sticks.

[drummer_mp3]

Man that was the one and only album where Lars didn't make a fool of himself.

[rohbit]

It doesnt really conform to any standards, and just as well - I believe that once you start adding rules to your songwriting, its time to put down the sticks.

Well said. That's one of things I really like about Lars' drumming, it's uniqueness.

For me though, the best song of AJFA other than "One" is "To Live is to die." I love the riff for the central part of the song; it's close to tear-inducing.

Just curious though, is Lars self taught?

Man that was the one and only album where Lars didn't make a fool of himself.

What are you talking about dude?! Have you not listened to Ride the Lighting, Master of Puppets or Kill 'em All?

If you think those albums contain the work of a fool, you seriously need to re-evaluate your musical tastes.

[drummer_mp3]

What are you talking about dude?! Have you not listened to Ride the Lighting, Master of Puppets or Kill 'em All?

If you think those albums contain the work of a fool, you seriously need to re-evaluate your musical tastes.

Mop and KEA are good but from a drumming stand point, they aren't as good as AJFA. He definately could have done better. I'm positive of that. Lars doesn't suck, he just didn't put enough energy into those albums.

[rohbit]

Mop and KEA are good but from a drumming stand point, they aren't as good as AJFA. He definately could have done better. I'm positive of that. Lars doesn't suck, he just didn't put enough energy into those albums.

Umm... enough energy?

On average the songs fo MoP, KEA and RTL are faster than the majority of AJFA.

The title tracks fo MoP and RTL are relentless and Lars almost never lets up.

[drummer_mp3]

Umm... enough energy?

On average the songs fo MoP, KEA and RTL are faster than the majority of AJFA.

The title tracks fo MoP and RTL are relentless and Lars almost never lets up.

You obviously don't get what I'm talking about. Lars was like everyone else in the band except for Jason, getting over the death of Cliff. If my best friend died my drumming would be greatly influenced by my anger and frustration. Lars played fast on both of those albums but the energy I'm talking about is more emotional than anything.

[Zildjian]

I never listened to a bad drumming by metallica...St. Anger was good except that snare, other than that it was really good..Lars just cant stay on time, thats why i really only listen to their studio recordings (And a few LSBP songs)

[drummer_mp3]

Don't you have S&M? ^^^

Lars is pretty good on that.

[Huber]

I've seen various live vids, and even though most of Lars' drum parts are kind of boring, he seems to play them well.

[Damo]

Man that was the one and only album where Lars didn't make a fool of himself.
Actually, that comment makes a fool of yourself. Almost all the albums upto AJFA had very appropriate drum parts.

[hairydinosaurs]

wow, an arguement over Lars, now thats rare /:)

i personally think lars' drumming is great, he influences the songs in a major way. He's no second rate drummer, i agree with the cliff comment, but i still think that after AJFA the drumming was still top notch and fitted the songs perfectly.

\m/( >< )\m/

[Taffer]

Funny. I played this song in my routine-practise today. My brother watched me play it. It took me a while to get used to that complex part you're talking about (during the weird solo). But now I know the song, it's simple. But that fill that someone suggested eariler (happens at 4:02) still gets me sometimes - keep messing up the first part of it (the quarter notes with snare and toms).
Although, I'm not playing the song right. I still can't hit the hats fast enough, so I just half their note value. Someone has to give me some tips with my slow hatting problem. :/

The drumming in S&M is very good in my opinion, and the drums all sound great - and the cymbals. Although one thing that bothers me about Lars in S&M is how many times he has a simple snare roll for a fill. It's in most songs!

[nisakss]

From a bassist point of view, who can't play drums at all, I find lars' drumming boring. He always seem to play the same fills and his kick drum lacks rhytm.

Although I guess that is just what the band needs.

[drummer_mp3]

Ahah! See what I mean I'm not the only one who finds he gets slightly repetitive.

[Damo]

Ahah! See what I mean I'm not the only one who finds he gets slightly repetitive.

Youre agreeing with a bassist who cant play drums?

He always seem to play the same fills and his kick drum lacks rhytm.
It only appears that way from your limited drum knowledge.

[Zildjian]

From a bassist point of view, who can't play drums at all, I find lars' drumming boring. He always seem to play the same fills and his kick drum lacks rhytm.

Although I guess that is just what the band needs.

I disagree, Lars uses his kick drum very well. Have you ever herd One and AJFA (the song) recorded and life. Its incredible. But since your not a drummer I guess you wouldn't understand

[TTTSNB]

Youre agreeing with a bassist who cant play drums?


It only appears that way from your limited drum knowledge.
Too bad he can't really play any of that stuff.

[drummer_mp3]

My god people Lars could have done so much more. Sure he drums well in the first three albums, but he could have drummed so much better. He just plays it too simple sometimes.

[Kosmos Tree]

Ulrich is a pioneer in Metal drumming and inspired thousends of drummers to pick up sticks. It's hard to believe, but Metallica were one of the most extreme and fastest metal bands back in the 80'.
They did more for the genre than any other band - except Maiden maybe ;)

Ulrichs drumming has always fit well in the context of Metallica, no under or overplaying, he was always able to surprise me with things i didn't expected from him, TBA or Load for example and he has me inspired more than any other drummer in my beginner days.

Of my tastes in music and drumming are different now;
but that doesn't take away from the respect i have for this band.

[TTTSNB]

Ulrich is a pioneer in Metal drumming and inspired thousends of drummers to pick up sticks. It's hard to believe, but Metallica were one of the most extreme and fastest metal bands back in the 80'.
They did more for the genre than any other band - except Maiden maybe ;)

Ulrichs drumming has always fit well in the context of Metallica, no under or overplaying, he was always able to surprise me with things i didn't expected from him, TBA or Load for example and he has me inspired more than any other drummer in my beginner days.

Of my tastes in music and drumming are different now;
but that doesn't take away from the respect i have for this band.
Not at all....numerous bands completely outclassed them in that respect, and musically as well, IMO. See...Slayer, Sepultura, Dark Angel, Testement, Exodus...I could go on.

[Kosmos Tree]

I should have been more specific, i meant around 82/83; some of the bands you mentioned weren't even around then (Sepultura, Testament) or hadn't released an album.

[hairydinosaurs]

come on guys...how are we having an argument over Lars, i only asked for help with Frayed ends... you've all stooped to a lower levels. Peoples opinions differ from person to person, perception is everything...it's how you perseave him. No-one is right or wrong here.

Personally, he did influence me to pick up the sticks and he still influences me to continue more tha any other drummer.

[Vannaroth]

Its a very awkward song, not even lars himself plays it how he does on the album. Though not including medleys, theyve only played it live once. and even then they stopped half way through because audience looked bored.