View Full Version : Triggers Dispute
puppet.master
03-26-2006, 02:39 AM
Alright so my buddy (bassist) is insisting that
any death metal
any black metal
also all thrash
all most every new band
uses triggers
i told him that its just learning how to tune but he insists they all use triggers
i cant stand triggered bass drums. I just dont dig the sound. Unless its 2 basses and 1 is triggered for efx. or something.
keaton_86
03-26-2006, 02:48 AM
Well your bassist buddy is simply an idiot then isnt he?
Supro
03-26-2006, 03:11 AM
what are triggers?
Corkofski
03-26-2006, 03:21 AM
http://members.westnet.com.au/petrilli/triggers.pdf
Kalvarium
03-26-2006, 04:46 AM
No, your bassist knows exactly what he is talking about.
OFCOURSE every drummer triggers his bass drums, and sometimes even all the kit!
Its no surprise. Triggers today are a must for perfect sound. I use triggers on my bass drums because its almost impossible for me to tune them equally. Plus it depends on taste.
But usually, any drummer of those styles with a budget would use triggers.
It's not tuning only....EQ is the magic word.
Vannaroth
03-26-2006, 05:04 AM
Sorry but your bassist is 100% correct.
Corkofski
03-26-2006, 06:05 AM
i will be using triggers live next time, since it makes for a better, louder sound on top of micing, as well as making it a tad easier.
that said, i'll only have them cos im building a triggered mesh kit
Supro
03-26-2006, 06:52 AM
still dont know what triggers are, if that link was supposed to help, the link in the link doesnt work, haha.
For many death metal or black metal bands, if they played that without using triggers, it'd just sound like a rumble, too fast to decipher each bass drum stroke.
Chippy569
03-26-2006, 08:22 AM
For many death metal or black metal bands, if they played that without using triggers, it'd just sound like a rumble, too fast to decipher each bass drum stroke.
one-too-tree
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 08:24 AM
screw triggers. just mics
Chippy569
03-26-2006, 08:25 AM
good luck with those mics at 210bpm...
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 08:43 AM
yeah.....210bpm can mean anything?
Talos
03-26-2006, 08:47 AM
one-too-tree
How many trees can you fit in an Irish car?
Tree in the front, tree in the back
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 08:51 AM
bad bad bad
good luck with those mics at 210bpm...
Works fine with Slayer/Dave Lombardo...
Corkofski
03-26-2006, 09:01 AM
http://members.westnet.com.au/petrilli/triggers.pdf
triggers
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 10:25 AM
and 210bpm still means alot of different things..
Chippy569
03-26-2006, 10:46 AM
16th notes in 4/4 at 210bpm, sorry, i shoulda clarified.
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 11:10 AM
not a problem then?
Denny
03-26-2006, 12:49 PM
He's right, as far as the bass drums are concerned. Almost every band uses triggers on bass drums anymore. Especially black metal and death metal. With out them there would be virtually no way to distinguish each hit through the rest of the music. Plus, with drummer who use double bass kits, its annoying to try and tune 2 bass drums to match, so they use triggers to ease the issue.
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 02:10 PM
Almost every band uses triggers on bass drums anymore.
i'm sorry i dont speak idiot
TTTSNB
03-26-2006, 02:15 PM
^they mean 16ths. Obviously. Most death/ black metal bands trigger the kicks so they can get a good sound every time, regardless of mix.
White Riot!
03-26-2006, 04:12 PM
Triggers are for aesthetics.
Instead of hammering the bass drums so fast that the notes blur they could actually create decent rhythmic patterns with their bass drums but instead they choose to re-inforce the cheesy cliches of their respective genres.
As far as triggers go you DONT need them as long as you tune your drums accordingly to get definition
White Riot!
03-26-2006, 04:15 PM
No, your bassist knows exactly what he is talking about.
OFCOURSE every drummer triggers his bass drums, and sometimes even all the kit!
Its no surprise. Triggers today are a must for perfect sound. I use triggers on my bass drums because its almost impossible for me to tune them equally. Plus it depends on taste.
But usually, any drummer of those styles with a budget would use triggers.
This is quite possibly the dumbest post ive ever come across
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 04:27 PM
^they mean 16ths. Obviously. Most death/ black metal bands trigger the kicks so they can get a good sound every time, regardless of mix.
i know what he was trying to say. But look at what he said. Would you call that slightly english?
crazyguy832
03-26-2006, 04:35 PM
If I had two kick drums I would trigger.
Otherwise, at least at the moment, I wouldn't.
If I ever started playing in a band at 220+, though, I would probably trigger my kick. Just for the pure fact that if you're doing a roll at that speed, your volume will go way down.
And, seriously... I was at a concert last night (small place, ~50 people) and the drummers were all hammering their kicks... still had a bit of trouble telling what was happening in the bass.
Yeah, they were unmic'd kits... but still, at even the Opeth concert the mics did jack all to allow the kick to be heard.
Futuro
03-26-2006, 04:38 PM
Martin lopez triggers during heavy songs.
crazyguy832
03-26-2006, 04:42 PM
At the Opeth concert a few weeks ago the kit was totally mic'd. It might've been triggered as well, I dunno.
But it was the other Martin playing anyways.
Futuro
03-26-2006, 04:43 PM
At the Opeth concert a few weeks ago the kit was totally mic'd. It might've been triggered as well, I dunno.
But it was the other Martin playing anyways.
Yeah they do both, But on the heavy songs it is easy to tell it is triggered.
On Lamentations he switches to triggers for the second half.
Honestly I see nothing worng with triggered kicks. I would never use them, because I never go fast enough for them.
But triggered toms sound like garbage to me. (Zappas Cheap thrills [Pukes at drum sound])
crazyguy832
03-26-2006, 04:44 PM
Ah, okee-dokee.
Meh, I honestly don't know how it's possible to not trigger in larger venues. Any large outdoor concert's gotta at LEAST have the kick triggered.
Futuro
03-26-2006, 04:46 PM
Ah, okee-dokee.
Meh, I honestly don't know how it's possible to not trigger in larger venues. Any large outdoor concert's gotta at LEAST have the kick triggered.
Good mic...
If you are a fan of Tool, his bass drums are only mic'd. Also he uses 2 different sizes. VERY noticeable sound difference in the kicks.
crazyguy832
03-26-2006, 04:51 PM
Well, meh, whatever. If you can get the sound you need from just mic'd, go for it.
I'd like to see you do 16ths at 300 and have it sound good untriggered, though.
SkaRabbit
03-26-2006, 06:26 PM
honestly i don't see the point of 2 bass drums sounding the same. the only reason i would get a second bass drum is for a different sound. if i want the same sound.. double pedal.
He's right, as far as the bass drums are concerned. Almost every band uses triggers on bass drums anymore.
There are a lot of misinformed posters on this topic - ^ This is one of them. The majority of bands do not trigger, because triggering drums creates its own set of problems. As a rule of thumb, triggering or not will depend on whats easiest and quickest (when playing live) and what sounds best (when recording).
Often the best sounds are not created from modules, but by mics and good tuning. There are a lot of studios who prefer to mic AND trigger, then mix both to achieve a good sound.
IMO acoustic sounds are best, and when mixing for sound triggering should only be used to repair what the drum cant naturally achieve.
White Riot!
03-26-2006, 07:02 PM
Ah, okee-dokee.
Meh, I honestly don't know how it's possible to not trigger in larger venues. Any large outdoor concert's gotta at LEAST have the kick triggered.
Another idiotic post. Whats wrong with these kids?
Step #1. you Mic the bass drum with and outside mic
Step #2. you insert an internal mic
Step #3. sound re-inforcement does the rest
Triggers are so fake and plastic
crazyguy832
03-26-2006, 09:20 PM
Bah, whatever, I say if you want to trigger do it, damnit.
And why not record your own kick sound and then play that with the trigger?
Det_Nosnip
03-26-2006, 09:38 PM
Good mic...
If you are a fan of Tool, his bass drums are only mic'd. Also he uses 2 different sizes. VERY noticeable sound difference in the kicks.
He also doesn't ever go above 160* (16ths), and hits REALLY ****ing hard.
Dave Lombardo is one of the few drummers who is able to get a full sound at fast tempos without triggering. To me, something like "Silent Scream" is a hell of alot more impressive than any of that ultra fast death metal ****.
*Well, perhaps some of his sextuplet licks would technically be quicker than that, but you get the point. :p
moogoogaipan
03-26-2006, 09:52 PM
I play jazz and funk, so tone is wonderful. I've never used triggers and don't plan to.
one question, though.
does John Blackwell using triggers. He always has a really nice and articulate bass sound, and I can't tell, cause I don't know what to listen for.
When I do fast doubles on my bass drum, it usually doesn't fit in with the mix of the rest of my drums.
he sounds like this R R L L R R L L R R L L R being hands, and L being feet.
I usually get this R R L L R R L L R R L L
it sounds muddy. But i"m playing it clean. Is it just the fact that it's acoustic and it's tuned to have tone instead of attack?
Erotomania
03-26-2006, 10:08 PM
tell him to leave the drum **** to the drummers and the bass **** to himself... he doesnt know as much as we do now does he?
TTTSNB
03-27-2006, 08:59 AM
He also doesn't ever go above 160* (16ths), and hits REALLY ****ing hard.
Dave Lombardo is one of the few drummers who is able to get a full sound at fast tempos without triggering. To me, something like "Silent Scream" is a hell of alot more impressive than any of that ultra fast death metal ****.
*Well, perhaps some of his sextuplet licks would technically be quicker than that, but you get the point. :p
Yeah. Lombardo also tunes and mics his kicks differently than other people, generally fairly high and unmuffled, Bonham style.
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