Useing Two scales?

[Spencer]

Evertime I think I know something... I don't.

Here is my question. In a song can you combine two scales? or modes. I don't know the diffrence.

Also say the guitar chord pattern is say E F# G.. what scale or mode would you play? I always thought there was just one you can play but is it possible you can choose?

Im trying to get better at writeing basslines since I may be playing in this REALLY BIG local band.

[BassVirtuoso]

E F# G all being major chords? You could find all the common tones within the scales and use those notes in a scale.

[WHoRRID]

i dont understand what u been buy combine 2 scales like play one after the other?

E F# G is the 123b of E minor so thats kinda tuff. if i was playing chords id play Em F#m Gmajor(maybe a seventh added) cuz that all Em/Gmaj

[Mr_Soup]

Well, aside from the standard root pattern, try a relative minor scale.


The relative minor of a major scale is a minor scale played over the 6th degree of the scale.

Take A major:

A B C# D E F# G# A



The 6th position of this scale would be F#, so you could play F# minor.


Just for kicks, let's see how these scales lock up, first A major and then F# minor:

A B C# D E F# G# A
F# G# A B C# D E F#


Nifty, eh?

[Spencer]

MR_soup That is gonna take me a little while to understand.

I just made up a few chords I wasn't thinking I forgot to say if they were major minor augmented diminished ect.

And my two scales or modes I mean like say a verse uses one and a chorus uses a totally diffrent one.

Im trying to learn scales and then apply them to songs, but im just not that good at it. Im better just doing it by ear. I wish there was some simple secret to all of this.

Edit: lets just say they were all major..

What are my options? I mean could I play a minor scale with major chords? And how do I know what mode to play it in?

[deemo]

try something easier, like C F G progression, all major, common tones, etc etc.
now can someone help? (i'd like to know as well)

[jollygiantchris]

And my two scales or modes I mean like say a verse uses one and a chorus uses a totally diffrent one.

Im trying to learn scales and then apply them to songs, but im just not that good at it. Im better just doing it by ear. I wish there was some simple secret to all of this.

Edit: lets just say they were all major..

What are my options? I mean could I play a minor scale with major chords? And how do I know what mode to play it in?
to answer one of your questions yes you can use different scales/modes to play in the verse/chorus/diff section no problem i recommend learning modes for this because that entire system allows you to vary your sound (harmony 2) in addition many people use the modes to change things up during a solo

as far as i know in the major scale the chords being diatonic within the scale are like I ii III IV V vi (think 7th is augmented or diminished) where lower case is a minor chord

and on a different note dude as long as it sounds good who cares?

[gaslight]

^ The diatonic chords of a major scale are Imaj7 ii-7 iii-7 IVmaj7 V7 vi-7 vii-7(b5).

For clarity:

Diatonic triads of a major scale.

1 : Major ( 1 3 5)
2 : Minor (1 b3 5)
3 : Minor
4 : Major
5 : Major
6 : Minor
7 : Diminished (1 b3 b5)

Diatonic seventh chords of a major scale.

1 : Major 7th (1 3 5 7)
2 : Minor 7th (1 b3 5 b7)
3 : Minor 7th
4 : Major 7th
5 : Dominant 7th (1 3 5 b7)
6 : Minor 7th
7 : Half Diminished (1 b3 b5 b7)

For the guy who started the thread, yeah you can play all kinds of different scales and modes in the same song. In many cases you can choose from many different scales and modes just to play over the same chord, it depends on what sound you want.

An easy way to know what your available pool of scales/modes is, is to know the key of the song and pick your modes accordingly. You'll have to be aware of any key changes in the song as well because they will mean you need to think a bit more about it.

With the chord pattern of E, F#, G, what you can play depends on the quality of the chords. Do you mean they are all major chords, or just like root/fifth/octave power chords, or something different, if you could clear that up I can help you some more.

[Spencer]

k so I know how to tell what key the song is, so say the song is in the key of C I can play any mode in that is in the key of C I want depending on the sound I want?

Is there such thing as two keys in one song.

[gaslight]

If you're in the key of C, you can choose your mode depending on the chord.

Say you had a standard sort of progression, like a I IV V. That would go C major, F major, G major. Being the 1st, 4th and 5th degress of the scale you could use C Ionian/Major on the 1 chord, F Lydian on the 4 chord, and G Mixolydian on the 5th chord.

If it had the relative minor chord in there, which would be A minor, that's the sixth scale degree, so you could use the sixth mode, which would be Aeolian/Natural Minor.

The degrees of a major scale all have corresponding modes to be used over the different chords they make, but they will all contain the same notes from the major scale, just in a different order.
---

And yeah, you can have more than one key in a song.

[the_uber_penguin]

There are probably experts on this in the Jam Session. Try your luck there.

I'm not entirely sure what context you mean, or if you're asking for contexts in which two scales can be used.

[Son of Magni]

I'm guessing that threadstarter is actually asking about key changes (as opposed to modal changes), which are certainly valid to have in a tune. But it can be tricky to set up a key change so that it doesn't sound abrupt and out of place. And I'm no expert, it's just that I've played lots of classical music so I know that it can be done well, or done poorly.

Maybe someone with more technical training can explain the tricks of the trade where it comes to key changes???

[Spencer]

moved http://musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453338

[Naveed Afzal]

overtone scales,
understones
and you can indeed use different modes in one song.

[Spencer]

SO FOR ANYONE ELSE WONDERING.. I just found out ever single mode is just a major scale in a diffrent key.... But im not sure about this, I think a mode is just so you can play in a diffrent key in the same song... So yea I still need to learn alot..

[gaslight]

The easiest way to explain modes is that each mode is just a scale starting on one of the degrees of a major scale, containing the exact same notes but starting on a different one.

C Major

Ionian: C D E F G A B C creates the major seventh chord CEGB
Dorian: D E F G A B C D creates the minor seventh chord DFAC
Phrygian: E F G A B C D E creates the minor seventh chord EGBD
Lydian: F G A B C D E F creates the major seventh chord FACE
Mixolydian: G A B C D E F G creates the dominant seventh chord GBDF
Aeolian: A B C D E F G A creates the minor seventh chord ACEG
Lydian: B C D E F G A B creates the half-diminished chord BDFA

Scales/modes and chords aren't different things that happen to work together sometimes, they are two different ways of expressing the same available pool of notes.

They aren't really for playing in a different key (see how all the modes of C major remain within the key; no sharps or flats in any of them), they are for playing over different chords in the same key.

Cmaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, Fmaj7, G7, Amin7, and B half-diminished, are all chords in the key of C, so you can play the C major scale over every single one of them just by using the applicable modes. Changing chords isn't necessarily changing the key.