Technicality in Today's Pop Music

[muthafunkabass]

Is there? I'm not putting down the genre in anyway. I am making this out of curiosity. Have you guys ever heard a musically-challenging pop song? If so, YSI it.

[Benzum]

Hmmm, not as such. Pop songs are written in very generic ways and a lot of songs can be re-cycled over and over into other songs. It depends what you are looking for, how technical are you used to? Etc.

[Hep Kat]

It really depends on how you define "pop."


If you're definition of pop is something like Alicia Keys' work, then use that is fairly technical.

If it's something along the lines of "Hollaback Girl" by Gwen Stefani, then you're encroaching on what Swim said.

[JohnXDoe]

I really don't think it matters in rock music. Unless it's metal or prog. I really don't care as a listener how good the players are. Just give me a good song, and you can be a virtuoso or the kid down the street. Pop, rock, whatever, just play it right.

[muthafunkabass]

John, I know exactly waht you mean. I'm just saying in nearly every other genre I can find a technially-challenging song. I haven't seen it in this one and would just like to find it.

I consider Alicia Keys as an R&B singer. Stuff like Gwen Stefani is exactly what I'm talking about.

[skingle]

Pop is written to be catchy.

If it had all this complicated stuff in then it wouldn't be. Therefore i will say that no, its not technical because it doens't need to be / shouldn't be.

[muthafunkabass]

That's actually a really good point, but it isn't impossible to make something technical, while still being catchy. There has to be a way.

[skingle]

Yes, but it isn't what people want to hear. If i listen to pop or pop rock then i want to sit back and relax and not have to think about what is playing.

Just kind of let it wash over me y' know?

[muthafunkabass]

Yeah, I guess so. I guess this thread's all wrong, that post is pretty much the point of Pop in my eyes.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Good Vibrations.

But in all honesty, if pop music was particularly complex it wouldn't be pop music.

[Irish Nostalgic]

John, I know exactly waht you mean. I'm just saying in nearly every other genre I can find a technially-challenging song. I haven't seen it in this one and would just like to find it.
Pop, by design, is meant to be unchallenging. Its entire purpose to be as simplistically inoffensive as possible.

[Happy]

I don't really listen out for technicality at all. If I like it, I like it.

[dei]

I don't really listen out for technicality at all. If I like it, I like it.
Quote.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Pop, by design, is meant to be unchallenging. Its entire purpose to be as simplistically inoffensive as possible.
I wouldn't take it that far, but that's the general idea. My favourite definition of pop music is music that's designed to, or could coincidentally, appeal to any listener.

[2muchket!]

Well for technicality look no further than McFly.....................:amaze:

[JohnXDoe]

I agree with those who say pop really can't be complex from a musical/technicality stand point. It's all about melody in pop. And some of the very finest of rock n roll bands have indulged in pop music and melody to large extent. The Go-Go's were a great pop band, for instance. But they were also a good rock band. The Who are a great rock band, but Townshend also wrote some great pop songs. Even if they did come in a rock wrapper. So the term pop is not so easily defined. Or perhaps easily understood is a better way of putting it.

For complexity/technicality in pop, some of the older new wave bands had it. Not on the instrument, though. That's not necessary in pop. But in song structure and melody. They were quirky and twisted. Devo, B-52's, The Cars, and especially The Talking Heads. Pop-Pop/Rock bands, one and all.

And never underestimate pop music. If everyone could write an "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" or a "We Got The Beat" or a "My Best Friends Girl" I'm sure they would love to. But it's much trickier then many realize.



*waits for Moz to invade thread with long sermon......*

[DanD]

I think that the technicality in pop music lies in its structure. Pop music is written in a way so that the song is a catchy and interesting as it can be. Song layout has been researched thoroughly be the writers and composers. I really respect the writer of a good pop song.

[Happy]

Well for technicality look no further than McFly.....................:amaze:
I love McFly shush.

[PDWAB]

A lot of pop tunes are harmonically pretty complex. There's not so much emphasis on the parts of a single instrument, but the overall chord structures are usually amazing. It's more of a single overall sound that they go for, which is a much different kind of technicality than most rock music.

[Liberi Fatali]

A lot of pop tunes are harmonically pretty complex. There's not so much emphasis on the parts of a single instrument, but the overall chord structures are usually amazing. It's more of a single overall sound that they go for, which is a much different kind of technicality than most rock music.
Yeah, a lot of pop songs have several layers plyed on top of each other. It is unusual to see one instrument as the focus in modern pop. Quite often the vocals are deemphazized too. One example is All About Us by t.A.T.u.

[randomthought9]

Quite often the vocals are deemphazized too. One example is All About Us by t.A.T.u.

I never heard that song, but I always thought vocals were emphasized, not deemphasized. The chord progressions are usually just power chords, bass is root notes, and the vocals are the focus, IMO.

[murphy54]

I don't really understand everythink you write but I have to say you are advanced in this domain:thumb:

[Get Fighted]

Isnt Queen supposed to be quite technical?

[Happy]

Isnt Queen supposed to be quite technical?
Queen isn't today's Pop Music though. It's more Classic Rock.

[Get Fighted]

Actually yeah your right, i shouldnt have suggested it.

[morrissey]

"Musically challenging" is a pretty broad prompt, but the first thing that popped into my mind is the album Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys. I don't need to YSI it you, if you haven't heard it you have no basis trying to slag off pop music.

I think people don't give pop writers enough credit. Britney Spears doesn't write her own songs, remember. And if she does, she'll write the lyrics or outline a general melody for the chorus or something. The guys who actually write this music are insanely skilled and creative, and pop music is densely layered and meticulously written and performed, though by each composer you will find a lot of redundancy in their songs (for example, most of Britney Spears' singles are written by the same team as many of Nsync and the Backstreet Boys' hits - if you listen, you find find very similar schemes running throughout the song and similar instrumentation etc). But like John said, it takes something to write an "A Hard Day's Night" or a "...Baby One More Time". You don't need to be supremely talented (though many of today's pop writers are), but it takes a definite degree of skill/talent to be able to compose a catchy, enjoyable pop song that doesn't sound like the million other pop songs people have permanently engrained in their head. I've heard a lot of boring pop songs too, with no rememberable melody and no selling point. But the "musically challenging" aspect of pop music is the mere ability to take a song from that listless and boring trap and make it something people will get stuck in their heads. There is no formula you can follow - just because you compose a song that on paper should be enjoyable (C-Am-F-G chord progression with a pentatonic scale chorus vocal line), there are no guarantees for success or enjoyability, and that is precisely what makes pop music so challenging.

[Phunphone]

Most people look for some space to think, absorb and comply with the music they listen to. Therefore it becomes a struggle to accept technicality. Simply put, A simple I-V-III or whatever chord progression is much more acceptable. Pop music is an industry, they want to make songs that immeaditely "hit you". And not everybody's an advanced listener, that is, have patience and concentration to understand the music they listen to, and the industry aims to as many people as possible. This is the main reason of pop's simplicity.

On the other hand, for example, check out Genie In A Bottle. It has strong beats, it must be a struggle to play them on drums. The song does not use real drums, but that's another story.

[The Minstrel in the Gallery]

I think there is some technical pop out there. Supertramp? A pop/rock ban from the 70's that had some great saxophone and guitar solos. John Mayor? An excellent pop guitarist. Cold Play is also somewhat technical.

[aria8789464]

no it really depends on how u define technicality

most pop songs have more complex harmonies modulations instrumentation and melodic devices than most metal or rock or whatever


but if u mean technicality as in some long haired guy sweep picking 16ths at crotchet 200pm then no pop is not very technical

[Concubine]

How about John Mayer and Elliott Smith, i think those two have fairly more complex stuff...

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

U2 anyone? Not THAT techical, but not exactly child's play either.

[Malmsteen_Mike]

no it really depends on how u define technicality

most pop songs have more complex harmonies modulations instrumentation and melodic devices than most metal or rock or whatever


but if u mean technicality as in some long haired guy sweep picking 16ths at crotchet 200pm then no pop is not very technical

I dont recall EVER hearing any complex modulation in a pop song bro - I guess, again, it depends what you're used to. I play mostly rock/metal/jazz, and I certainly wouldnt describe most pop songs as using complex harmonies or melodic devices - probably not more than metal, and DEFINATELY not more than jazz.

I think part of the problem here is that most people are too eager to jump on one side of the argument. Either technicality is everything, and a song is terrible unless its very complex, or complexity is just arrogange and the important thing is being slow with "feeling" etc.

If you wanna stick yourself a label thats ok; rock music is supposed to be loud and aggressive, and pop music is supposed to be catchy - neither is bad or wrong, and neither is something you should aspire to in particular.
In my experience, just by being yourself, and writing whatever melodies/songs come to you, you will write across a broad range of styles - if not, then perhaps you should ask if you are as well rounded a musician as you would like to be.

As I said before, if thats all you want to be, then thats fine - but its just as pointless debating the technicality of pop as it is debating the simplicity and catchyness of bebop lol they're meant for different things, and are merely a couple of colours in the entire pallette of musical genres.

[Dave de Sylvia]

I wouldn't say pop songs have more complex melodic devices but more complex harmonically, sure.

[El_Goodo]

John, I know exactly waht you mean. I'm just saying in nearly every other genre I can find a technially-challenging song. I haven't seen it in this one and would just like to find it.

I consider Alicia Keys as an R&B singer. Stuff like Gwen Stefani is exactly what I'm talking about.

Well if were talking about the whole genre of pop we can go back to bands like The Beatles, R.E.M., Big Star, some of the who's stuff.

But I'm also gonna say more or the same amount of effort can be put into a pop song than in any genre. You don't think Paul McCartney works as hard to create instantly catchy songs like Another Day, Maybe I'm Amazed, Let It Be, and even Yesterday, as Led Zeppelin works to create a song like Stairway To Heaven?

[Futuro]

Sting - Ten Summoners Tale - Buy it, the drumming puts your favorite bands to shame.

St. Augastine in Hell consist of a few different times the last I remember. 7/8 15/16. All the songs on that album are very good, and technical, with nice solos.

[deathscreamingsheep]

probably not more than metal, and DEFINATELY not more than jazz.

Most metal has pretty boring/uncomplex harmonies unless you go into to really technical end. A lot of pop music has enough jazz influence and so forth to include modulations and harmonies that are fairly complex.

[cobert]

A lot of pop tunes are harmonically pretty complex. There's not so much emphasis on the parts of a single instrument, but the overall chord structures are usually amazing. It's more of a single overall sound that they go for, which is a much different kind of technicality than most rock music.

I was just thinking this. I cant remember what song it was, but i heard some rap song on the radio, and i heard the beat and thought "If I were to write this out on paper, it would contain an assload of 16th not rests", which is more complicated than most people think of when they think of pop and rap.