Different ways of counting while jamming?

[pabster]

Hope I'm not beating this subject to death. While jamming with a bunch of guys we were all discussing ways to count so we stay in sync. We're fairly new together. Several ways were discussed such as:

1. Counting the measures, or each riff. Example would be 4 riffs, then a fill, then 4 more riffs etc
2. Counting beats or snare hits (or whereever a snare hit would normally occur). Like 24 snare hits, then switch to a solo or something.
3. Using the 1 e and a, 2 e and a method.

My drumming book only talks about option 3, but I truly hate that method. Counting like that while you're jamming takes the fun out of it....too much counting so you can't enjoy it. I like option 1 and while experimenting with many songs, it seems to work fine.
I know many in this forum said they don't count, and I never have either. But now the guitarists I play with are saying sometimes I go into a fill when they expect one more measure for example so we're not in perfect sync. Yes, I know that is what rehearsing is for, but there has to be a most efficient way of jamming too....like saying "OK, do 4 measures, then drummer does a fill, then do 4 more measures, then guitarist does a solo, then 4 more measures, then drummer chokes the crash to end it" or something like that. Just wanted to see which of the 3 options people use above or maybe there are others?

Thanks!

[Chippy569]

I count measures, like the 1st option there. if it's a lot, i count phrases (2 repeats of guitar melody of chorus), etc.

[Loyton]

Phrasing all the way IMHO.

Its the flow, build the tension and release. I love jamming btw.

[rockindrummer]

I count 1 2 3 4 so I stay in time and all but I switch parts based upon phrasing. A heavier part deserves a different drum part so I'll switch it around. I guess I sometimes sort of lead the jams.

[Panopticon]

a true band FEELS the change...that's when you know there is chemistry...

[Inkstar]

I just find that I 'play along' to the music. I rarely count, which is a bad thing, but I do find that I usually don't need to. I don't think any of the other guys in my band count either. Perhaps we have a chemistry going, who knows.

I know one part where I have to count is in a song where it changes from 4/4 to 3/4 and has a completely different 'feel' to each section. I have to make sure I count the 3/4 section otherwise I miss going back into the 4/4.

[sorgoth]

When we do cover songs, I usually count the "difficult" parts. But when we jam, I never count, I just listen to the music we create and I go along. When I feel that a fill is in order, I just do it. When I feel I need to change my groove, I change it. It's all about practise, experience and chemistry...

[Chris]

I dont count when playing. I tend to feel the music, and listen alot to other people so that i can sense when a change is going to happen.

If it is a song that i am playing, i will listen to that song once, and then remeber it. And if the other people tell me that they want to change songthing, then they will play it to me, and say i would like ......... just here.

[Josiah]

learn to feel 4,8 and 16 bar phrases.. since 95% of rock/pop music is done in such phrasing.

[pabster]

I count measures, like the 1st option there. if it's a lot, i count phrases (2 repeats of guitar melody of chorus), etc.

OK, so counting measures sounds like a good option, but you're saying if there are a lot of measures (say 12), then you count phrases, which are groups of measures, right? I'm just trying to picture how I would count at the phrase level....seems like the phrase level would be too broad of a way to count. Like if a songs starts with 8 measures of a certain melody, that could be considered a phrase, and if you are counting phrases, no need to count that since it's only one phrase, so then you're basically not counting. Or am I missing the boat here? Seems like if you are counting at the measure (or bar) level, you can agree with other band members on small things to do (i.e. on the 3rd measure everyone do this or that). Anyway, just want to make sure I understand the difference with counting phrases vs. measures.

Thanks!

[ThugsRook]

i never count, no need to.

[milkmit]

yeah, it seems natural enough for me to feel the 4/8/16 bar thing (as well as the general direction the rest of the music is going in). especially 4, but the others are easy enough since they're just multiples of the 4. counting per beat seems silly in such a circumstance, except if you're trying to remember to change a beat up to match whatever riff the rest are playing if it calls for that....but that, to me, is more of an individual thing. I suppose everyone has their own way, and that's when beats would come in..

[shablul]

I just find that I 'play along' to the music. I rarely count, which is a bad thing, but I do find that I usually don't need to. I don't think any of the other guys in my band count either. Perhaps we have a chemistry going, who knows.

I know one part where I have to count is in a song where it changes from 4/4 to 3/4 and has a completely different 'feel' to each section. I have to make sure I count the 3/4 section otherwise I miss going back into the 4/4.
Same with me, i only count when the beat changes.
I usualy don't count during jamming cause counting is not fun while jamming :> :P

[rohbit]

I usually listen to the song for changes but honestly, when playing, just learn to feel it. I've been able to play along to new songs almost immediately without knowing their structure - this is ESPECIALLY easy with Rock songs as Jos said - and honestly, it just feels better that way. Sometimes, singing along to a song or humming it in your mind is a great way to count.

Now I know you said you're in a Jam band, but if you sing the song in your mind, and if you can sorta see where it's going, you'll be able to feel the changes because in a sense you're predicting them.

Another thing that my drumming instructor told me is:

"It's great to count, but you have to, at one point learn to feel the rythm. When you can feel what you're supposed to play, then you know you've got it right"

Just my 2 cents.

[Caleb_Pickering]

i only count if im trying to figure out a rhythm. Otherwise i just "feel" the changes.

[Josiah]

i never count, no need to.


You count a grip of things while playing drums. Either consiouslly or not.. your mind is counting a lot when you play.