vocal rack

[mikespahn]

i want to assemble a rack for live vocal processing (possibly 1 rack for 2 vocalists). what gear do you recomend i include? i'd like to have a mic pre-amp (preferably tube), a reverb, a wireless system, posibly a delay effect? my main problem is i am mainly experienced with bass equipment and know nothing about what vocal gear will sound decent and what wont. recomend any brands, specific pieces of equipment, or something i have not mentioned but would be handy in a vocal rack.

[Seafroggys]

i don't see why you need reverb for a live setting.

the point of reverb is to recreate the reverbrance you achieve in like a concert hall or something. In a live situation, the vocals will naturally reverb.

[Mispeled]

I'd recommend just using a powered speaker for the vocals, plenty of them have XLR inputs.

[mikespahn]

with a reverb unit you have more control over how the vocals reverb instead of being stuck with whatever room or outdoor setting you are in. and why would i want no pre-amp?

[shayne_122]

and why would i want no pre-amp?

It's not necessary unless you're using a condensor mic. The tube tone achieved wont be very noticeable in a live situation, so sticking with the powered mixer's preamps would be a good idea. If you're dead set on getting rackmount processing gear, get a compressor, anti-feedback dealio, or an EQ.

[mikespahn]

i'm not specifically set on getting rack gear, i just want it to sound good, so i'm open to any suggestions on gear.

[Nicko_Shmicko]

behringer virtualiser is quite nice, threadstarter ignor the cats telling you you dont want a reverb unit live please.

[Seafroggys]

well if you want 80s vocals get some reverb then.

You'll want some EQ, feedback control, and compression though. Personally I don't see a reason for reverb or preamps, as long as you have any half decent console.

[mikespahn]

any specific pieces of equipment i should look into?

[Vitriolic Rage]

With my drone/doom metal band, a lot of the vocals use a lot of effects such as phaser and flanger, and pitchshift.
We'll probably just use some guitar pedals live.

[diesel]

Well, I'm a FOH engineer, so I can tell you some of what I keep in my rack regardless of the type of show.

My usual console (Yamaha GA24/12):
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%253D41305%2526CTID%253D560489%2526ATRID%2 53D10%2526DETYP%253DATTRIBUTE,00.html

My effect processor (Yamaha SPX2000):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Signal/Processors?sku=180975

My compressor (dbx166 XL):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Signal/Processors?sku=183548

My mic case:
(Shure sm58)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270101

(Shure beta 58A)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270120

(Shure sm57)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270102

Very rarely (Shure beta87A)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270168


I run my effect unit off one of my aux sends, and back into the aux returns. I use it mostly on a reverb patch, but sometimes with a delay. The compressor gets plugged into the vocal channel's inserts, running in dual mono mode. My rack isn't the best it could be, but I still get gigs, compliments, and ladies... well, scratch the ladies, but you get the idea.

[mikespahn]

which mic do you use for what?

[diesel]

My mic usages are fairly standard where I'm from, but I'll outline them anyway:

For someone with a rock singer with a naturally warm voice I'll use an sm58 or sometimes an sm57.

For a rock singer without a very warm voice I'll use a beta 58A. I also like to use this as my default mic if I can't guess which will do the best, or don't have a chance to hear the singer before his set.

If it's a really rough band, like an indie punk band or anybody who's going to be swinging the mic around a lot, or tossing and catching it, I use the sm58, they are very hard to destroy.

For any kind of screaming genre, I like to have an sm57 with a foam windscreen if possible. The flatness and proximity effect of the sm57 just helps the scream sound clear.

The really nasally singers I give an sm57.

Now, here's the rarity, whenever I'm working with a pop artist that has one of those really, really, beautiful singing voices, I try and get them a beta 87A. Having a condesor on their voice just does them so much more justice.

If you'd like me to list what else I like to keep in my mic case for the rest of the band, I'll list those upon request.

[Fretboardninja]

this

http://www.antarestech.com/products/atr1a.shtml

[shayne_122]

this

http://www.antarestech.com/products/atr1a.shtml

I've used it, and I find it's much more of a hassle to use as opposed to actually singing well. It's a pitch auto-corrector, but for each virtual scale you sing in a song, you need to tap the midi controller to let the processor know.

That's my viewpoint on it at least.

On a side note:
The VST plug-in version is much more worth it, because on a recorded track, you can't do anything except re-record it.

[Fretboardninja]

^ yea i have the plugin and its awesome

[diesel]

For recording, I'd agree with a pitch corrector (I use Roland's V-Vocal in Sonar 5). In a live situation, it's just not practical I find. When big name pop-stars take those things out on tour, the artist and engieneer spend hours programming it for each song, not something I would want in my outboard rack (Imagine needing an extra hour in soundcheck to make sure your pitch correction works, ugh). I'd just rather the talent sings well, makes things better.

*side note*
If you are one of those artists that runs their vocals off a pro-tools session, or a dat machine, using pitch correction can result in you sounding "too perfect" and thus, cheezey.

[mikespahn]

yeah, i wouldnt want the hassle in a live situation. and diesel, list what mics you use for other tasks too, (guitar amps, bass amps, drums, etc.) also i've heard great things about using BBE's sonic maximizers on instruments how does it do on vocals? should i think about including one of these?

[diesel]

Okay, I'll start with guitars.

SM57 (Yes, I know I'm cliche)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270102

Sennheiser E609
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=276668

Sennheiser MD421 (Bass, 7-string, and really low tunings)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270820

*Side note*
I usually try to DI the bass if at all possible, and only add the MD421 if it's needed. I'm just a control freak with my stage volume I guess.


Drum Kit:

Shure beta52A (Kick)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270267

Shure sm57 (Snare top)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270102

Sennheiser E604 (Snare bottom and rack toms)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270817

AKG C1000 S (Hi-Hats, Special cymbals)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=271131

Sennheiser MD421 (Floor toms)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270820

Shure VP88 (In stereo mode as overhead)
http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/vp88.asp


Any questions? Feel free ask. Even if I haven't listed an instrument above that you want to mic, let me know and I can help you out.

As far as the BBE goes, I've never been able to get my hands on one, but I was thinking of demoing one on a show that's coming up at the end of the month. I'll let you know how it turns out, and considering I've only ever heard praise about it, I have some pretty high expectations of it. If I add one to my rack, I might just dig up this post then.