Reading Music.

[Pitch Fork6]

I've been playing guitar and bass for about 1 or 2 years, But I still dont know how to read music and its really rendering my song writing abilitys, and I really do not want to take le$$ions.

Can anyone recommend a good long article for starting to read music and starting theory and the such.

Thanks all.

[Absolute Metal]

when I learned how to read music I used cyberfret.com
I use that site for alot of things.

[Pitch Fork6]

Thanks for that, I didnt notice that on cyberfret before.

Anyone know where to start for theory.

[Trigger_003]

Haha, long articles...
C'mon, who does those these days?

:shifty:

Alright, here we go...
Learning notation is sometimes a tedious process, because you've got to start back at the basics again. Why? Well there are all these different note values and symbols and then you've got to memorise the location of where this dot belongs on the guitar.

But you can change this to make it more effective - and more interesting.
Say you were interested in learning classical. I say classical because this is probably THE easiest genre to access notation with. Anyway, if you were, you would go out and buy a beginner's classical book... regardless of how fast you can shred etc. Something like the Carcassi Method for Classical Guitar or one of Aaron Shearer's range... just make sure it's got notation (or even better, is entirely in notation, not a combo of tab/notation because people tend to cheat)

When you start working through one of these books, it'll talk you through all the basics. It'll introduce say, three notes on the high E string, show you their representation in notation, and give you a whole heap of exercises using those three notes. After you've gone through them, you will pretty much be able to read those notes without much trouble.

Next, it'll introduce another few notes, give you some more exercises, combine them with the other three notes you know, etc., gradually increasing your range.
But the reason for buying classical instead of some rock book you manage to find in notation or whatever, is (unless you've previously had classical training), you're learning something else at the same time, which hopefully makes it more interesting for you than just playing 3 notes up and down every second or whatever. If you have no interest in classical whatsoever, go get yourself a jazz/rock/metal/etc. beginner's book - as long as it has a gradual introduction of notation as I just described of course.
Because it's crazy to try to learn it all at once - you've gotta ease into it.

But I'll give you a bit of a background on the basics of how to read the stave.

My advice is to, firstly, have a look at http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/html/id10_en.html.
Where it says every line/space on the stave represents a key on the piano, it also holds true to saying every line/space on the stave represents a specific fret on the guitar. But with guitar, you can usually play the exact same note in more than one location, so the one dot on a stave can mean for instance open high E, 5th fret on B, 9th fret on G, and so forth... it's just something you have to learn to apply over time.

Try to memorise where those notes belong on the stave. Forget about using it with guitar at the moment.
Even if you just can remember where say, all the Gs are, you can count your way up to find a specific note while you're starting out.

Here's a way to make it easier to remember the notes on the stave (treble) until you get used to it:

-- f
e
-- d
c
-- b
a
-- g
f
-- e

You might have noticed that going from the bottom up, the letter names for the notes that go in the spaces construct the word "face".
For the notes on the lines, remember this:
Every Good Boy Deserves Fruit

Use those two things to help you. Over time you'll just get used to what notes go where - particularly if you are frequently playing guitar using notation.

http://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=65 is a notation lesson which has, at the bottom of the article, the first 5 frets on each string and its corresponding note on the stave to get you started. However, as I briefly mentioned above, the best way to learn to apply notation to guitar is preferrably to get a book that works you through it gradually, enabling you to remember and master reading a few notes at a time.

When you've got the idea of up to the 6th fret on each string, contact me and I'll send some easy notation your way to practise with :).

Have fun :thumb:

[Trigger_003]

Oh, and for theory, check out more of musictheory.net. Once you can read the treble clef (that is, the one that guitar mainly uses), that site shoudl make a lot of sense to you and give you a good grounding in basic theory. Once you're done there you can move on to various, more advanced resources, but musictheory.net is probably one of the best to start you off with.
If you have any questions on the stuff on there, simply ask around here.

And you said you play bass too, so I guess I've gotta add a bit more to the above post.

The bass guitar uses (well, usually) a bass clef. Tell me if you want me to draw up those two clefs for you so that you can tell the difference.
Anyway, you can't read two seperate clefs the same way. You can't say that, from your knowledge of the treble clef, the second bottom line on the stave is an G when there is a bass clef there. Because it'll be a B instead.
But don't worry, you don't have to learn several types of clefs individually. One you know one, there is a simple trick taht you can apply:
1. The notes on the stave (with the bass clef, not treble) are set out like so:
--a
g
-- f
e
-- d
c
-- b
a
-- g
If you compare this stave to the treble one, you will see that it's kind of a repeat, but every note on bass is written a line and a space (or a space then a line) below where it is located on its treble counterpart.

So if you have this on bass:
------

---o--

------

------

------

simply put it up a line a space (as below), and now use you knowledge of the treble clef to work out what note it is.

e.g.
---o-- <- you know, using the method above/your own that this is an f

------ <- the note was written here in bass clef

------

------

------

And if you're writing something in treble to bass, simply reverse the process (put it DOWN a line and a space instead of up).
Make sense?

[Pitch Fork6]

Thanks that helped a lot. :chug:

[Trigger_003]

Any time - let me know if you've got any questions :)

[men taking acid in a bath]

Any time - let me know if you've got any questions :)you know alot how old are you? i know your a girl so this amazes me

[Trigger_003]

16 :)

[DrunkenMimes22]

Ok this may sound like a dumb question lol .. but if you are reading music and say the first note on the staff is an A, how do you know where to start on the guitar? there are so many A notes on the guitar I wouldn't know where to start.

[Trigger_003]

You're right there, and this is probably one of the reasons guitarists new to notation after using tab don't particularly like it. But those As aren't all in the same octave, so that narrows down your choice considerably.

For instance, play your high E and your low E. They sound different even though they are the same note, don't they? And because of this, the staff shows those two notes as being different, by locating the dots at different locations

------
O <- your high E
------

------

------

------

--- <- btw, these = ledger lines - they're mini-lines either above/below the staff

---

-O- <- your low E

So in the instance of A - well, let's take the example of the A within the staff:
------

------

------
O
------

------
If we were thinking in terms of the notes contained within the first 6 frets, where guitarists on the whole do tend to work the most, this would be played (the "2", not the other ones):
e|--
b|--
g|-2
d|--(7)
a|--(12)
e|--(17)
But as you say, you can get that note on other places on the fretboard as well. i.e. the places outlined in brackets in the tab above.
So when do we use those?
Well, when it makes sense to. If we were to play the note in isolation, sure, go for any of them. But during a scale or a song, it's not smart to play everything surrounding this note around the first 5 frets then suddenly jump down to the 17th fret on low E to play that A, then jump back to the first 5 or so frets again. Logically, you'd use the 2nd fret on G instead.
Obviously if you decided to play a chord in the same kind of fashion, you'd be in a bit of trouble when it comes to getting one of your fingers to the 17th fret whilst you've still got fingers on 1st and 2nd frets.

So it really depends on the context.
When you're starting out, if you had a teacher, you'd generally get taught the notes within the first 6 frets of every string, and you'd be given songs or pieces that facillitate for that. Then you'd start to branch out a bit more and eventually it'd become second nature; you'll get to the stage where you can decide on the most convinient location on the spur of the moment.

If you had to take a wild guess, you could probably be pretty safe with the 2nd or 7th fret options, but that's obviously not a rule or anything; the context is something you really have to consider.

Hope that helps :thumb:

[Amit]

nice going trig keep it up

[Jimmy]

Let me give you a lesson in music theory in the line of Dave Davies...

Find the chord that you want to play. If you want to solo, keep hitting notes in that chord and hope they sound good.

That's really all you need to know ^_^

[ELB]

Trigger_003,
I've Finaly starting to read music(good idea for music colleges), but I am a very indecisive person, thus I get stuck on position. Does it matter where on the neck I stick too when first starting to read.
Lets say I play around the frets 5-10. Would it be better to just stick to the frets in the lowest numbers?

Some things make sense, for instance, if I see the low E on the Staff and the low G, A, D etc. It would make most sense to stay near the nut.

I've started with a Wes Montgomery song, and I find myself looking back at the tab as a reference to make sure the notes are right, and my position. Too bad I'm "illiterate".

-ELB

[Trigger_003]

Thanks Atman :).

That is a great idea for music college. I know just how you feel - I was kind of indecisive when it comes to that as well. As I said at the end of the last post, generally when you're starting to learn reading music, you'll focus around the first 5 or 6 frets, and gradually move out of those to other places around the fretboard as you advance.
I find it's generally less confusing for people taking it up that way as well, because, as you (hopefully) know the tuning of your guitar, you'll automatically have at least one easy reference point for each string. Namely, e,b,g,d,a,e. Once you know where the open strings are on the staff, if you come across a note on the stave you don't know the location of (fretbaord-wise), you can count up the semitones (which is also like counting up the frets) from where the closest open string is in terms of the stave, and work it out that way... e.g.

O <- a G, but you don't know where that is on the fretboard
------
O <- your open high E
------

------

------

------

From there, you'll count, in this case, up, the frets from open E until you reach that note.
E->F->F#->G (note that there isn't an E# (well for theory's sake there is, but effectively, it's really just your F))
So this means we have to count 3 frets up
originally, we have: E|0, then...
1 fret up: E|1 -> 2 frets: E|2 -> 3: E|3
So that C is on the 3rd fret of E. If you were trying that approach from the 7th or 10th fret it'd take heaps longer to do.

Anyway, mastering reading the fretboard in that little section is a much more through appraoch as well; it's a lot easier than trying to remember 72 different spots by learning the first 12 frets on each string at the same time.

How far are you into notation? Have you done the really tediously boring stuff yet?
If not, and you're having trouble, maybe a Montgomery song isn't the best place to start.
http://www.eythorsson.com/music/1018.pdf
This is easy.
Really easy.
You will be bored by this... initially anyway.

But work through it well (you'll race through the first bits probably, then it gets harder and you'll slow down a bit) and you'll see a massive improvement in your ability to recognise notes.

Yes, I know the songs don't particularly sound too awesome, but stick with it.

Hope it helps

[ELB]

Haha, wow. Thanks!
Yes I think I should know how to tune a guitar after 6 years.
As for the Wes song, I choose Airegin by him for it's a fast song, and I could use some jazz licks while working my speed. AND I love the sound of his guitar, especialy when he hits the octaves.
Since it's a sunday I think I'll start to become literate with that PDF.
Thanks,
-ELB

[mutant!]

ohnoes its teh girl invasion

So trig, you play geetr rite? You a tone/gear whore? Or just a run-of-the-mill electric guitarist? Can you solo?

It's funny, but a lot of females (at least around here) seem to think that soloing/gear whorery is a man's job.

[ELB]

Woah! Ok, Why is the B note called "H" in Sveinn Eythorsson's The first Guitar Milestone: Classical Guitar Primer?
I've never seen that before.
-ELB

[Trigger_003]

Haha, that's okay. In Germany and those parts they call it that; it's still a B according to us. There's an article on Wiki about it if you're interested.

Mutant: I've been playing guitar for about 10 years... but I still don't own an electric, so I'm not exactly a gear whore.
I'm intending on getting one sometime though because one of my bands plays heavier stuff and I'm sick of borrowing my mate's gear.
But I can definitely solo, and love to. I'm mostly play flamenco/world fusion - paco de lucia kinda stuff - and classical but I play quite a bit of metal, jazz, rock, etc. as well.

[Zatoichi]

trigg is like the superman of the begginer section. :thumb:

[ELB]

hmn, ok. Net thing I'll find is that there's a Z note.
Got any really nice guitars?
I'd like to know since you said you don't own any electrics.
I just got a Martin about a year ago, my favorite guitar yet. The sound...The feel, I don't think I'll ever find something similar in the electric department. C. F. Martin, they know how to make guitars.

-ELB

[understand i am teh AB]

dude trigg=god

oh yea and trigg iv been stuck with some stuf like chord structure i was wondering if you have AIM so i can ask you maybe have a conversation without posting in threads like this

[Trigger_003]

Nah I don't have AIM, sorry. I'd give you my msn but... it's hard for me to get on (long story, I'm sure you don't want to know :p).

If you want to start another thread, I'm happy to help you with that kind of stuff though. Might have to wait till the weekend though - got a few performances and a 4 hour exam this week.

ELB: The story about the H note is, their B represents our Bb, and their H represents our B. That's pretty much all you need to know about it - you probably won't come across it too often.
Can't say I've heard of the Z note though... where'd you learn about that?

As for guitars, I've got a nice Yamaha classical which is over 40 years old (my dad's old guitar), and another Yamaha I hardly ever use. Being that old it's got a few little dings n stuff but it still plays great. I intend to fix those scratches up when I get the time.
Martins are great, love 'em. I really wanted to get a Maton or Cole Clark a few years back as well, but I still haven't... I guess I'm more set on finding an electric I really like.
/still looking

[understand i am teh AB]

awesome how techniqally good are you anyway i mean you know tons of theory for a 16 yearold female im 17 male and i know little i guess girls>boys

[Koss]

Acid Bath, why were you claiming to be a 14 year old girl called Laura then?

[understand i am teh AB]

Acid Bath, why were you claiming to be a 14 year old girl called Laura then?its true

[Sup, Goats?]

its true


lel

I'd still bang you

[Woofdog]

Bah, I'm 14 and I could say all that stuff :P

Lol just kidding, nice long posts, good to see someone putting in time to help someone out now and again. Well done. :)

PS: I could of actually said all that stuff, if I was kind enough....

[Ladyshredder126]

[QUOTE=Pitch Fork6]But I still dont know how to read music and its really rendering my song writing abilitys, QUOTE]

How does it affect your song writing abilities?