Pre amp dilema!

[climber_k]

hi guys wondering if u guys could advice me on some pre amp's. i have a choice of aguilar db659, ampeg svp pro or cl OR a Trace elliot gp12vx.
i will be runnig thse through a trace 600rx power amp.
the probelm is that i can not try any of these out cos i live in a very rural place! i just wanted to know which of the pre- amp's out of those would be worth purchasing?
thanks

[neatobassman]

all are worth buying, but it comes down to what you like. I would travel the hour+ to whatever shop that has those things and try them out. That's the only way you will know if you will be happy, because peoples choices in tone and all that are very different.

[edgebass5]

I've tried the Aguilar and Ampeg preamps, but never that particular piece of Trace gear.

Ampeg (both of 'em): Cool tone, cool features, TONS of noise. They were completely unuseable to me for just that reason (this is my assesment of pretty much all Ampeg gear by the way).

Aguilar: Cool tone, very mid and bottom heavy. Slightly muted top end. Would sound great in a rock band with a pick, but I found the fingerstyle tone to be a bit muddy.

Trace: Not that particular preamp mind you, but I've always found Trace gear to be very mid-heavy and excellent at cutting through a mix (almost too well). That being said, I find the Trace tone to be a bit "lifeless"

Out of the ones you listed my preference would be the Aguilar, but then again, I'd still much rather just have an Avalon U5 :naughty:

...oh wait... I do have an Avalon U5.... oh wait.... I've got two of them :lol:

[chaosMK]

The BBE Max is also and excellent preamp, and I think it runs a little cheaper than those you mentioned. There are also rack mount Sansamp pre's that are pretty sick.

[eguitaranlead]

Aguilar

[Az_Holl]

The BBE Max is also and excellent preamp, and I think it runs a little cheaper than those you mentioned. There are also rack mount Sansamp pre's that are pretty sick.
BBE B-Max

[NavyBass]

I have the BBE B-max, and I tried all the others before I bought it. I found the BBE to be more versatile than any of the other ones, plus it was a bit less expensive than most of them.

[climber_k]

hey guys, thaks for your help! keep it comin, god know's i need it. hah
right i went to the local music shop today and all they had in their was the ampeg svp pro and the billy sheenan one! i personally agree with the guy above who said they sound immensely noisy!! so i am off them now! i have narrowed it down to aguilar and trace! the MAJOR prob is i live in UK.. and gear here is sooooo expensive, and i cant buy from US cos of the voltage difference hence the bbe b-max is out of question! so i wil have to rely on u guys helping me out! and u have noo idea how much i appriacte ur help!
thanks again!!

[somrandomguy]

The music store must have had an old SVP-Pro then. The old ones had a circuit problem (which can be fixed with a noise gate). It's fixed on the newer ones.

[Led_Zeppelin678]

I have a Billy Sheehan preamp. It's a little noisy, but nothing an $80 noise gate wouldn't fix...and the tone is spectacular.

I've heard AMAZING things about the Alembic F2-B. Check out the reviews at HarmonyCentral.com.

[climber_k]

awsome! the only prob being i cant find the alembic anywhere! hmm.. i still have the choice between the aguilar and trace!
anyone of u guys ever owned the aguilar?? if soo i would love some more info about their sound!!
thanks

[edgebass5]

I have a Billy Sheehan preamp. It's a little noisy, but nothing an $80 noise gate wouldn't fix....

Not saying there's anything wrong with this, but here's my spin on that logic:

So you buy the Ampeg Billy Sheehan preamp like you suggested. Than you have to go and buy a noise gate. You now have two devices in your signal path instead of one (signal degradation anyone?). You also have to buy another 1/4" cable to connect the two. Depending on your rack situation you might have to upgrade to a bigger rack because of it. On top of all that, a noise gate will ONLY work when your signal gets low enough for it to engage. When you pluck/pick/pop/slap/tap a note, the signal threshold passes the preset point, the gate opens up and all of the signal AND all of the noise comes right through.

If it works for you, great. For me it makes as much sense as an avacado peanut butter and mushrooms sandwich :lol:

[edgebass5]

oh, and threadstarter, try this:
http://basstasters.com/preamps/aguilardb659.htm

[PaulSimonon]

I've been using a GP11 (Predecessor to the GP12) for well over a year now, and it's never failed me. If you take the time to get to know the eq well, you will always be able to find the right tone for the job.

I've put mine through it's paces at gigs and countless hours of jams and it's always come through beautifully. Funk, jazz, metal, fusion, punk, rock, metal, dub, everything. I always know that I'll be able to find the right tone for a song because of it. Extremely versatile pre that cuts through the mix easily, but can also sit back in the pocket if needbe.

[Hardinge]

ashdown do some nice preamps

[climber_k]

ashdown do, do some nice pre-amps but i have had a evo 500rc for quite a while now, and tho i do live the sound, i just wanted to upgrade to something better, plus by using a pre and power amp i get muh more flexibilaty.
tho i have just bought the ashdown 1500d! check it out! it is pretty awsome! i preffer it to the abm power amp!
by 6'0 clock today i will have made my decision about trace or aguilar!! i shall keep u guys informed!
thanks

[Hardinge]

the aguliar looks best

[Led_Zeppelin678]

Not saying there's anything wrong with this, but here's my spin on that logic:

So you buy the Ampeg Billy Sheehan preamp like you suggested. Than you have to go and buy a noise gate. You now have two devices in your signal path instead of one (signal degradation anyone?). You also have to buy another 1/4" cable to connect the two. Depending on your rack situation you might have to upgrade to a bigger rack because of it. On top of all that, a noise gate will ONLY work when your signal gets low enough for it to engage. When you pluck/pick/pop/slap/tap a note, the signal threshold passes the preset point, the gate opens up and all of the signal AND all of the noise comes right through.

If it works for you, great. For me it makes as much sense as an avacado peanut butter and mushrooms sandwich :lol:

Well, I didn't mention this earlier, but eventually it will be used pretty much solely as a distortion unit (I've NEVER heard nicer bass distortion anywhere), so it won't be as noticable.

[climber_k]

the aguliar looks best

i agree! i love the simplicity of the aguilar, that is why i am soo attracted to it! i heard it through the fender jazz on basststers.com! and to be honest, it is the EXACT sound i am trying to achieve! i like the trace but all full 12 band eq, all the other tone shaping controls, would mean i would have to spend a lot of time finding that "right" tone, while as in the aguilar, turn a few knobs and walla! i have it!! still the aguilar is wayyy more expensive! ah well, about time i treated my self! ha!!

[PaulSimonon]

Honestly, the 12 band eq isn't going to take you a lot of time finding the right tone. It's the same as any pre, once you've used it for a little bit, you've got a pretty good understanding of the EQ. I find the graphic EQ a lot easier to use than parametric ones, myself.

I like having my values set instead of having to play with them like you will have to on the Aggie. In my opinion, the graphic EQ is a lot simpler than the parametric one.

[climber_k]

aarrghhh :mad: i ahte ebay! i had the aguilar in the bag, until someone bid $20 extra on it about 2 seconds after me!!! ah man... i gueas i have to settle for the trace now! or any other aguilar i come across at this cheap price.

[Hardinge]

aarrghhh :mad: i ahte ebay! i had the aguilar in the bag, until someone bid $20 extra on it about 2 seconds after me!!! ah man... i gueas i have to settle for the trace now! or any other aguilar i come across at this cheap price.

ouch
thats unlucky

[PaulSimonon]

I would never call buying a Trace "settling".....

[climber_k]

I would never call buying a Trace "settling".....

indeed, i did not mean it in that way! i was just really dissapointed that i could not get the aguilar! here is the link to the trace tell me what u think of it!! thanks
http://cgi.ebay.de/Trace-Elliot-Pre-GP-12VX_W0QQitemZ7393683003QQcategoryZ47614QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

[PaulSimonon]

Too bad it isn't green...

[climber_k]

ah yes paul as u seem to own a trace urself and like em a lot! i would love some advice on this amp man! like is it worth what it is going for.. feartures, etc etc... ur help will be apprciated beyond belief!

[PaulSimonon]

Well, I can't read German unfortunately so I have no idea what the description says, but yeah, Trace's are solid amps.

This one's got a nifty balanced DI out in case you want to go straight into the board. The DI has the option of using the preamp shaping beforehand or not, which is also pretty useful.

It's also got an effects loop send and return, as well as two auxillary outputs, one of which is a high output and the other is low output.

I believe it's also got the footswitching option between the normal tone shaping and one with the mids cut, which is very useful if you're going to be switching between slap and fingerstyle mid-set.

I'm drawing a blank on what else it has, but it's definately an outstanding pre for recording and live playing because of the DI and it's options, as well as the footswitching thing.

[climber_k]

thanks a lot paul! right while looking around i also came across an eden wp100 going cheap also from germany! any suggestions about these?? i hae read reviews and have played through only once, my old next door neighbour had one! i do remember liking the tone but that was a while a go..
again i face the decision eden or trace???? they booth look equally awsome!
thanks

[PaulSimonon]

I dig Edens a lot, but still haven't found anything I'd choose over my Trace.

[climber_k]

awsome! i just LOVE the look of eden with all those led's! paul what sort of music do u play? the band i am currently in... are very... lets say melodic heavy rock, twangy guitars at times and CLEAN bass! i very rarely use the over drive... which one would be more versatile eden or trace????
advice much appriciated again.

[PaulSimonon]

Well, I'm obviously biased towards the Trace. I never use overdrive, although I do use other effects sparsely. Both are great amps, and you'll be satisfied with either. I personally like the Trace more, others might like the Eden more. I'd see if you could try them out side-by-side if possible, but that might be hard to do.


I play everything from Jazz gigs to metal gigs to funk rock gigs to thrash gigs... I have used the Trace in all of them without problems.

[climber_k]

nice one.. it is pretty much impossible for me 2 try the amps side by side, the only way i can do that is by buyin them and then testing them!!
nice one! that is a very wide spectrum of genre's u got going there! i read a few reviews of the eden.. the trace seems to be supperior at the moment, plus going by ur experience i think the trace would be ideal for me..
cheers for ur help buddy! :chug: shall let u know what i buy!

[PaulSimonon]

No problem man, hope whatever you end up with suits you.

[Led_Zeppelin678]

I've never tried a Trace, but the one Eden I played sounded like utter crap.

[climber_k]

I've never tried a Trace, but the one Eden I played sounded like utter crap.

really??? have u tried the wp 100?? i always thought eden were one of the better amp companies? anyone know what roughly what a god price for a secondhand eden wp100 should be? this guy in germany said i can have it for $600. is that a fair price for secondhand eden? or are they not even worth that??

[peeted]

theres allways the gk one. thats a pretty nice preamp.

[Led_Zeppelin678]

really??? have u tried the wp 100?? i always thought eden were one of the better amp companies? anyone know what roughly what a god price for a secondhand eden wp100 should be? this guy in germany said i can have it for $600. is that a fair price for secondhand eden? or are they not even worth that??

To be completely honest, I wouldn't buy one. To give you an idea of what my tone preferences are for a clean bass, think Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, or Stanley Clarke.

[climber_k]

To be completely honest, I wouldn't buy one. To give you an idea of what my tone preferences are for a clean bass, think Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, or Stanley Clarke.

aa i c... well i do like their (victor and les) clean sounds.. i preffer more of the incubus dirk lance tone tho! i think he owned an eden! is there too much hiss with the eden or are they very muddy sounding.. etc etc.. what is the actual problem in sound? or is it just that there is nothing wrong with the sound... u just preffer others???
thanks for the reply dude.

[climber_k]

ah! i ahve just come across one hell of a pre! the demeter hbp-1 pre!
anyone here know much about these things! from all the reviews and information i have gathered theese seem to be quite a little work of art, they only have 1 hand wired 12AX7 tube, and can achieve one hell of a tone!
any help appreciated!

[Led_Zeppelin678]

aa i c... well i do like their (victor and les) clean sounds.. i preffer more of the incubus dirk lance tone tho! i think he owned an eden! is there too much hiss with the eden or are they very muddy sounding.. etc etc.. what is the actual problem in sound? or is it just that there is nothing wrong with the sound... u just preffer others???
thanks for the reply dude.

I was playing a Warwick Corvette $$ through the Eden, and it wasn't muddy or anything, it was just bad tone. I've heard practice amps that blow it away. It might have been the cab though...it wasn't an Eden.

http://www.basstasters.com/

Go there to hear samples of about 90% of the preamps you can buy today.

[Sade]

Avalon U5.

[climber_k]

Avalon U5.

indeed, i have been recomended this by a lot of other ppl i have chatted to previously! but i dont understand how u connect this to the power amp??? through a jak to speakon cable? also does this mean that for live purposes the cab will have to be miced up instead of it being connected straight to the sound system? i know how foolish these questions are.. but u are talking to a complete idiot!! haha
thanks

[edgebass5]

indeed, i have been recomended this by a lot of other ppl i have chatted to previously! but i dont understand how u connect this to the power amp???

On the back panel there are two balanced XLR outputs. One is set at 150mV for sending a signal to a board. The other is set at 600mV to drive a power amp. Doesn't get any simpler than that :lol:

[climber_k]

On the back panel there are two balanced XLR outputs. One is set at 150mV for sending a signal to a board. The other is set at 600mV to drive a power amp. Doesn't get any simpler than that :lol:

haha.. told u i was stupid! i just called up the guy at the closest stor to me who sell the avalon, and he said there was not really much point in buying it if i my main purpose was live use! he said they are basically studio equipments! hence i think i will steer clear of them now!
info on eden and trace gp12smx or the bbe bmax t is still welcome!! thanks again!

[Sade]

^You don't need to put ! after everything you say! A period will do just fine!

Also, the Avalon is great for live use!

[climber_k]

^You don't need to put ! after everything you say! A period will do just fine!

Also, the Avalon is great for live use!

sorry it is a habbit. how can avalon be that good for live use? i mean all it has is a boost and tone knob? i have just found a bbe bmax t, are they in the same league as trace's and eden's?

[Led_Zeppelin678]

sorry it is a habbit. how can avalon be that good for live use? i mean all it has is a boost and tone knob? i have just found a bbe bmax t, are they in the same league as trace's and eden's?

Once again, go to http://www.basstasters.com. You can hear the Avalon, both BBEs, the Trace, the Eden, 3 different Ampegs, SWR, EA, Tech 21, Warwick, Demeter, Alembic, and alot more. The Avalon is apparently the preamp they hold in the highest respect over the others.

[edgebass5]

he said there was not really much point in buying it if i my main purpose was live use! he said they are basically studio equipments! hence i think i will steer clear of them now!

Do not put stock in the words of people with no experience. I use an Avalon U5 as my sole live preamp. I go from my bass, to the Avalon to my QSC power amp to my cab. The U5 is an unbelievable live preamp. Also, don't let the tone presets make you think its not versatile. Basically instead of having a bunch of useable and completely unuseable tones it cuts through all the mess and gives you a few VERY useable tones to choose from.

Keep in mind that it is pretty much as hi-fi as it gets, so if your bass doesn't sound all that great, it will not cover it up like a heavily colored amp would.

[edgebass5]

The Avalon is apparently the preamp they hold in the highest respect over the others.

For good reason too! :D

[Led_Zeppelin678]

I listened to the all the samples, and the one I liked the best is the one I already own.

[climber_k]

Do not put stock in the words of people with no experience. I use an Avalon U5 as my sole live preamp. I go from my bass, to the Avalon to my QSC power amp to my cab. The U5 is an unbelievable live preamp. Also, don't let the tone presets make you think its not versatile. Basically instead of having a bunch of useable and completely unuseable tones it cuts through all the mess and gives you a few VERY useable tones to choose from.

Keep in mind that it is pretty much as hi-fi as it gets, so if your bass doesn't sound all that great, it will not cover it up like a heavily colored amp would.

ah i c, ok, i will look into this pre a bit more then and i play through a cutom warwick that i bought recently so i should have no probs sounding bad :thumb: .. and i tried bass tasters the sample for bbe bmax and bmax t does not work!

[edgebass5]

also, regarding live use of the Avalon U5. Take a look at the gear issues of Bass Player magazine, and you'll be blown away by the number of pros that use a U5 in their live rig.

[Sade]

The Avalon is an absolutely wonderful preamp.

The lack of numerous tone controls usually puts people off at first, but believe me; when you hook that baby up, there's no going back.

Edge, how's your U10 going? :lol:

[Led_Zeppelin678]

ah i c, ok, i will look into this pre a bit more then and i play through a cutom warwick that i bought recently so i should have no probs sounding bad :thumb: .. and i tried bass tasters the sample for bbe bmax and bmax t does not work!

Pics of your Warwick. NOW! Or details about it, at least.

[climber_k]

Pics of your Warwick. NOW! Or details about it, at least.

HA! sorry dude, i just moved to my dads hose for the rest of the month, today! and i do not have the warwick here, i only brought my fretless along with me. TBH it is not fully customised, i got it from a music shop where i used to live previously, and it was secondhad! the pickups have been changed over to bartolini, there is a blue LED to light up the W and thats about it! but the tone, the growl.... ahhhhhhhh.. never ever will i need another bass!
as for pre amp! haha.. desperately need one, i just sold my previous head.. so now i am hedless! i am debating over the bbe bmax t or the trace elliot gp12 smx, or possibly the yamaha pb-1? i cant figure out y they are soo cheap! as for the avalon they are a bit out of my price range.. plus i can't find a good deal on them anywhere in the uk. btw has anyone tried out the new SUPERFLY by ashdown.. apprantley it is claimed to be the BEST amp to come from them!

[Led_Zeppelin678]

HA! sorry dude, i just moved to my dads hose for the rest of the month, today! and i do not have the warwick here, i only brought my fretless along with me. TBH it is not fully customised, i got it from a music shop where i used to live previously, and it was secondhad! the pickups have been changed over to bartolini, there is a blue LED to light up the W and thats about it! but the tone, the growl.... ahhhhhhhh.. never ever will i need another bass!
as for pre amp! haha.. desperately need one, i just sold my previous head.. so now i am hedless! i am debating over the bbe bmax t or the trace elliot gp12 smx, or possibly the yamaha pb-1? i cant figure out y they are soo cheap! as for the avalon they are a bit out of my price range.. plus i can't find a good deal on them anywhere in the uk. btw has anyone tried out the new SUPERFLY by ashdown.. apprantley it is claimed to be the BEST amp to come from them!

What model is your Warwick? Also, if it's older, the Bartolinis may be stock.

[climber_k]

What model is your Warwick? Also, if it's older, the Bartolinis may be stock.

hey man, it is a stramer stage 1, i bought it like 1-1.6 years ago, i am not too brushed up on the intricate details, but all i know is i love this bass and i would not trde for anything else! as for the pickups, i am not sure at all, all i know is they are bartolini, as i was told by the guy at the store. are u a big warwick fan urself?
what do u think about warwick quad pre amp and thier tube amps??

[Led_Zeppelin678]

hey man, it is a stramer stage 1, i bought it like 1-1.6 years ago, i am not too brushed up on the intricate details, but all i know is i love this bass and i would not trde for anything else! as for the pickups, i am not sure at all, all i know is they are bartolini, as i was told by the guy at the store. are u a big warwick fan urself?
what do u think about warwick quad pre amp and thier tube amps??

Yeah, Warwick's my favorite brand. I've never even seen one of their amps in person, though. They have a forum at http://www.warwick.de if you want to ask about it there.

[climber_k]

ok.. after all my hours and weeks of internet and phone research, i have figured this... for a budget of about $1000, i can get a power amp and a pre amp both very decent.. but, the more equipment the higher the chance of it breaking.. plus as u already realise.. i am not all that sure about how the whole pre and power amp configure together.. etc etc.. BUT i am now considering buying a straight bass head! and i mean a Top of the range one.. so again i come to u looking for advice.. mesa boogie. m400+, mpulse 600, 360,300 or m2000. or the SWR 300x,550x or 900x? or any other amp u could suggest to me in that price bracket!!
or try and provide me with pros/cons of having just a head compared to having a pre and power amp! what would u choose???
thanks again for all your help :thumb:

[edgebass5]

Not to be rude here, but it really sounds to me like you have no idea what you want. Is it not in your capacity to drive around and try out some pieces of gear to see what you like and don't like?

[climber_k]

Not to be rude here, but it really sounds to me like you have no idea what you want. Is it not in your capacity to drive around and try out some pieces of gear to see what you like and don't like?

i understand, and u are right, i have no idea what i want.. hence plea for a little help.. and as for driving around trying stuff out.. try living the uk. the music shop's here are dreadful. not to mention ridiculously expensive. i have never ever seen a mesa, aguilar, eden, or swr amp in any shop! not even in london! i mean c'mon.. this place sucks for music equip.

[edgebass5]

that's unfortunate for one very big reason. Good tone is highly subjective to the individual person. I'm quite sure there are a lot of people here on MX that would hate my Foundation -> U5 tone, but there are probably a lot of people here that would love it too. In other words, what works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa.

..........wish I could be more helpful, good luck :thumb:

[climber_k]

that's unfortunate for one very big reason. Good tone is highly subjective to the individual person. I'm quite sure there are a lot of people here on MX that would hate my Foundation -> U5 tone, but there are probably a lot of people here that would love it too. In other words, what works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa.

..........wish I could be more helpful, good luck :thumb:

thanks. not to worry man every little thing helps! i cannot find the avalon anywhere in the UK! man this place blows. i might well go for the trace elliot 12smx pre and a good power amp, unless something like an aguilar db 750 crops up ceap!or a mesa walkabout.
ermm any ercoomndationds on a good power amp? i got my trace 600rx delievered this morn and it is bust! the rack mounts are broken, and look welded onto the main unit! half ths knobs and leds are missing and on of the inputs is blocked!! hahaha joke, good thing the shop offered refunds. anyway i was thinking either a behringer 1500 or maybe an swr 750?? any ideas about agood transparent power amp?
thnks

[Led_Zeppelin678]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER BUY BEHRINGER.

Ashdown, Ampeg, Aguilar, and SWR all make bass power amps. You can get very high quality ones that are designed for general amplification, like Crown and QSC, that many people prefer.

For the pre/power set-up I want, I'm going to do this:

Alembic F2-B
QSC RMX1850
Avatar 212NEO cabinet

I probably would've gone with a QSC PLX series, but I couldn't find one that matched the power requirements on the Avatar well.

[climber_k]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER BUY BEHRINGER


haha nice.. ok NO behringer, what about the crown xls series?? any good, or i have found an swr in th UK (un-freakin-belieavable) it is the swr bass 750 power amp! is that any good? i have read reviews, but i mean i'd rather discuss it with ppl rahter than solely bass it on reviews. i also founda killer trace like i said before the gp 12smx. awsome stuff.
OH and also for anyone of u wanting to buy an aguilar and have about $1900 spare, i know someone who is selling the aguilar db 680 assembled by ALEX AGUILAR! :naughty:

[peeted]

if you live in the uk you could just get a maplin power amp. cheep and reliable and dont effect the tone. www.maplin.co.uk. you can get a 200 watt maplin power amp for about £100.

[climber_k]

if you live in the uk you could just get a maplin power amp. cheep and reliable and dont effect the tone. www.maplin.co.uk. you can get a 200 watt maplin power amp for about £100.

hmm. are they any good tho? i have a budget of upto about 300 for power amp, i dont want it crapping out on me! i will have a look at it tho!
thanks

[climber_k]

ok one last question before i am done with this thread!!
trace v-type or gp 12smx??? i tried out the trace head with the 12 band eq on it and i loved the tone! freakin rificulous (a guy about 2 miles down the road has one). i have not used the v-type before tho!

again thanks for the help

[peeted]

hmm. are they any good tho? i have a budget of upto about 300 for power amp, i dont want it crapping out on me! i will have a look at it tho!
thanks
iv herd only good things about them.